The Crash and Burn of Victoria's Secret

[@ayefuh]

the thing is, i appreicate inclusivity, but why get rid of the glamour and glitz of fantasy? if they wanted to seem like a company who wants all women to feel sexy, why stop being sexy when all women are represented? consumers wanted more representation for different body types, not a complete removal of the fierce feminine style.

[@understitchYT]

Right?? Inclusive doesnt have to mean plain

[@ripwednesdayadams]

i wish they focused on the quality of the lingerie too. their lingerie was not cheap in terms of price but the material and quality was horrible. no one wants to pay $120+ for a “fancy” lingerie set that is crappy quality.

[@wonderer2344]

I don't think all women have to be represented either. They are lowed a niche. Their target market are those kinds of women

[@lanagukina3338]

I guess they "helped" women by discarding a bunch of women who worked for them and made them money for over a decade - very feminist

[@kennethking8586]

Your missing the point, Trans or non zero size models can be sexy and part of the glamour and glitz fantasy too. The issue with Victoria Secret is they do not believe this.

[@0003-t6x]

Sadly I think Savage x Fenty will have the same fate. Their stuff is cheap with a scamming subscription service.

[@randombrokeperson]

Not to mention ugly. I browsed their website some months ago out of curiosity and the pieces were so ugly, whether it was the construction, color choices, patterns, fit even on the (very good looking) models… I was kinda shocked people like savage as much as they do? Definitely not my taste, that mess is really ugly. Rihanna has better taste in lingerie, surely.

[@marib.364]

@@randombrokepersoni think it’s mostly the diversity fenty has. it was trendy for the « baddie » aesthetic when it first came out.

[@2120musiclover]

As they should.

[@0003-t6x]

@@marib.364 looking back she was pandering. Focusing on diversity to distract from poor quality. There’s no reason why her lingerie looks so cheap.

[@DamienHurts]

Could you please explain why the sub service is scamming? It really is disappointing, cause i'd expect this type of shoddy business model from the Kardashians, but Rihanna has always struck me as a more honourable celeb with morals that would fuel her to really put a lot of care and thought into the product's quality and style as well as a business model that doesn't trick the consumer. Too bad.

[@nebulousquartz2712]

All people wanted was pretty lingerie on a wider range of bodies not whatever this is

[@understitchYT]

Its very first VS show again

[@nebulousquartz2712]

@@understitchYT exactly

[@zucchinigreen]

The problem with the stripped down show is that nobody regardless of size, race or ablity just wants to feel regular. They want to feel like main character models. If the diverse models came out in Wings and stunning makeup and hair like they did with Alek Wek in the 90's, we would have all applauded. Instead they treated them like an undesirable after thought. Ick. Also, as someone plus-sized with a full chest, VS bras has never fit me. I look to UK brands like Playful Promises of making bodies of all sizes look gorgeous.

[@understitchYT]

Right? Theres no need for diversity to be so plain

[@gloriafeudjo1840]

100%. i was so disappointed when i watched the new VS show and saw not one spec of glitter and over-usage of pink.

[@maverickbull1909]

Well that's what happens when you bully a company for its sex appeal built on models who get there through merit of their beauty, fitness, and perfect bodies. They raked VS over the coals for that so VS gave them what they wanted: regular-degular, fat, boring, basic, uninteresting, unfit women who reflected the masses crying on twitter. And now it's not good enough to see yourself reflected back at you? I doubt some wings and glitter would've changed that. People didn't watch the VS shows for the damn sequins, they watched it for the perfect women. The tall, high cheekboned, skinny, flat stomached, fit, long-legged, pretty women. And now that's "misogynistic" so cope ig? Only a large group of insecure, unfortunate looking women could re-brand true female beauty into misogyny which should be hated and avoided at all costs. Tragic. It's really just a tactic to make them feel better about themselves. It was never about actual, real misogyny. The whole idea behind the angel aesthetic was that only a tiny minority of women could look as ethereal and perfect as an angel. I can guarantee you no men or secure women were upset by that... But insecure, unattractive women will always seek to lash out and tear a woman down who makes her feel threatened rather than celebrate her and move on. And that's exactly what happened.

[@alyssanielsen8521]

Thank you for listing that UK brand, I checked out their website and I'm so happy to see actual options for me!

[@mymasmith7848]

For me, it was over when they pivoted to all that PINK and perfume sub brands. When you could see 16 year olds with PINK across their bums walking around the mall, anyone over the age of 20-something just stopped going.

[@understitchYT]

yeah, and its quite a weird direction to go in for a lingerie brand. I get that theres demand, but its a but ethically grey

[@Bunny11344]

I haven’t shopped there in 4.5 years but their sports bras are amazing and hold up. Not sure if they’re still the same quality but I wear them to the gym daily and washes and they’re still as good

[@crystalcastillo7575]

funny how Victoria secret was started to make a man feel comfortable , and boy oh boy did that never change. explains why Victoria secret pandered so much to the male gaze, which is weird considering it's a women's clothing store.

[@understitchYT]

It was a womens clothing store designed for men, yeah, it explains so much

[@carolynwarfield1057]

It really ignored the shift as more women had disposable income.

[@littleblackpistol]

It's actually pretty grim.

[@sonyakinsey4376]

Coming from Canada, I did get the cataloges as a teen and young adult, but for practical shopping purposes, I can compare VS and Canada's major underwear chain, La Senza. La Senza stores were bright, airy and painted yellow and pink, with a painting of a woman chasing a hat on a windy day behind every cash. By contrast the VS stores were dark, with neon lights, yes, like a boudoir. I didn't enjoy going into them, and I was disappointed when La Senza remodeled along VS lines to compete. Obviously the VS stores were successful but I miss the more open and relaxing feel of the old La Senza.

[@understitchYT]

I thought la senza was British, I did not know it was from Canada! I remember all the girls preferred it in fact in England over VS

[@sonyakinsey4376]

@understitchYT It is actually Canadian, although with international franchises. In Canada their biggest competition was and is La Vie en Rose, not VS. Nice to hear I wasn't the only person who preferred La Senza though.

[@notpurrfect6397]

I love la Senza and still have and wear their 30-year old silk lingerie. Take good care of good fabrics and they actually become vintage.

[@DamienHurts]

It always upsets and disappoints me when I keep hearing how many of these clothing brands end up, at some point, "cutting too many corners in the pursuit of profit". It seems so greedy and disrespectful to their long-time loyal buyers that they would jeopardize the reputation of their brand like this. I remember in the mid to late 2000s, the perception of Victoria's Secret in England was that only cheap and tacky women would buy their lingerie and perfumes. It wasn't a respected brand at all. Whereas Intimissimi was alot more popular.

[@understitchYT]

unfortunately every brand does it, even chanel

[@taurahelms3068]

Both VS and Savage X Fenty are equally exploitative in my opinion.

[@understitchYT]

I dont think VS is exploitative in the same way savage is, its inauthentic, but its not quite as malicious as Savage

[@Unsweetened8618]

Her brand is not gonna last that long... It doesn't have that longevity niche... Skims has already dethrone Savage Fenty

[@c.w.8200]

I remember how excited I was in the early 10s to travel from an international airport that had a VS store as I only knew the pictures of the fashion show. You can't imagine my shock and disappointed when every single product seemed so cheap and juvenile, a very lowest common denominator, cheap rhinestones kind of thing compared to the mostly Italian lingerie brands that are prevalent in my home country, I found not a single item I wanted to buy 😂

[@understitchYT]

Oh nooo what a shame! Where are you from?

[@ErinCooper-Douglas]

I had this experience too! I was a fashion-obsessed teenager trying to be confident in my sexuality, from a tiny part of Australia. VS seemed like the key, but was only available in airports or big cities. I was so sad to find the pieces were tacky! I've found a couple of gems over the years, but mostly, their stuff has been itchy, uncomfortable and cheap-looking

[@c.w.8200]

​@@understitchYTAustrian, I can understand why VS didn't have shops here, I learned that the glossy American fantasy, in this case, couldn't compete with the European brands we have here, it was a good lesson.

[@virginie1725]

I remember Adriana Lima describing the insane diet she had to endure before the show : lots of sport and pratically no food on an already slim girl. Glad it's over.

[@understitchYT]

How did she say ut? With pride or exasperation?

[@TheArtkaw]

Seeing the same thing is happening in kpop, and many treat their ED as a badge of pride.

[@alejandromolinac]

Gee….. a gazillion men do the same for look Uber fit…. Fitness shows, movies, undie campaign….

[@USA-qm2bk]

Chose

[@lg403]

Well, it‘s hard at the top. You have to make sacrifices, olympians sacrifice their whole life for one Moment.

[@kat3325]

Without quality improvement anything they do is useless honestly.

[@understitchYT]

Which will make it all the more difficult for them to come out of the hole they have taken

[@antoniac1234]

I find it interesting people are arguing about inclusivity destroying this brand when VS sales started going down well before they even thought of being inclusive. People don't understand that brands rise and fall, nothing is forever.

[@understitchYT]

Nothing is forever

[@JetPackDino]

At work, in the 90's, we all used to huddle around the VS catalogues and talk about what we wanted to buy. It didn't take long for us to figure out that most VS clothing was garbage. The lingerie was usually okay though. Thank you for this deep dive.

[@understitchYT]

Did you have the J Crew catalogues too? They seem so interesting from the J Crew book I read

[@janelane187]

I miss the old VS fashion shows, the garments were so much nicer and more creative, and it had such a fun vibe with the angels and music. I think inclusivity could have been incorporated into that dynamic without the mess that has insued instead

[@understitchYT]

Exactly! Inclusivity could have just been encorporated! Perhaps after a break of ‘reflection’ but imagine if they came back with an okd school VS show for all, thatd be epic

[@indoora]

Rihanna had no issue performing at the Victoria's Secret fashion show and no one complained when she did. I would dare say people who buy from X Fenty still buy from VC and that is evident from VC sales.

[@understitchYT]

And they even dismissed those remaining customers that they did have when they went through the first major scandal

[@thaisgregorio2734]

I was OBSESSED with VS as a tennager. I idolized the models and watched the fashion shows countless times on KZbin, but now, as an adult, I can see how problematic it was. However, I also don't like the rebrand. I'm all for being inclusive, but they didn't have to make de designs boring. It became a generic brand

[@maverickbull1909]

What exactly is problematic about extreme beauty?

[@latristessdurera8763]

I was dragged into VS shop a few weeks ago, on a shopping trip with a really good friend. The designs and fabric were quite frankly shoddy ugly looking garments. (Lots and lots of polyester, bad stitching, unflattering and strange fits). It looked outdated stuck in the early 00’s and neither of us bought anything.

[@understitchYT]

Its such a ahame

[@lordfreerealestate8302]

Honestly, if fast fashion brands with histories of encouraging EDs, exploiting workers, and polluting the environment die, good riddance to rubbish. Let's support indie brands and ethical ones.

[@understitchYT]

Shopping local is so impportant and yet for fashion so difficult

[@bnwo]

In today's day and age, statements like "lost relevancy in the culture zeitgeist" ring untrue because the cultural zeitgeist is no longer under the control of media conglomerates, and the public is keenly aware of the, as Noam Chomsky put it, manufactured consent that is part and parcel with media conglomeration. Yeezy is a perfect example. You can try to force corporations to disavow Kanye, but the public can and will disagree.

[@understitchYT]

You are right, that the people are enacting their power over companies more than ever, but Id argue that that in itself is part of the cultural zeitgeist, that the consumers are changing how that comes to be

[@yunyunid981]

i feel like they purposefully made the new concept boring as possible, so it fails and they can then say that they tried, but regular diverse women are just "soooo terribly unsexy & unmarketable", and go back to their roots. i'm from a more conservative country, and i often see this sentiment that it was diversity that ruined victoria's secret, not the bland concept

[@banterj]

I had to save this for tonight,while I clean,I have been YEARNING for an Understitch video a while.Sis gives me everything I need!…I don’t need video.i just stick my pods in and go.the longer the better,Sis we love you!From NYC!🙏🏽

[@understitchYT]

You listen to me like a podcast? I'm so touched, ty, I'm often conscious of my audio to make that possible, so thats really great feedback to hear thank you

[@banterj]

@@understitchYT oh I never watch videos.i use the KZbin premium,so my phone can be asleep while I consume the content,without viewing the screen,…I am attention deficit,so the longer the better,while I attend to my other duties ,like the Karl Lagerfeld presentation,that is a fav of mine…I hope you look into full form documentaries soon.😇🙏🏽

[@Boredblacksheep]

I always watched the news about them and when I got into the airport (the single shop in my country) I went to see what they sold. Imagine my shock when their product range was extremely small, pretty basic, extremely expensive and their lace felt scratchy on my fingers. I could not believe it. Now they opened a shop in a mall but the product range is still limited, basic and overpriced. I bought from Tezenis in the end 🤷‍♀️ They either need to switch to luxurious materials or lower the prices. You can't be slightly better than H&M but have 10x price.

[@understitchYT]

unfortunately this is the way a lot of fashion is going these days. The branding holds more value than the actual quality of the garment and so most companies invest in marketing over product

[@laelialocus]

I’ve been a huge fan of this channel ever since I found you and enjoyed the segment in this video about malls. I was curious if you could consider making a video about malls and tying in its relationship to fashion and the evolution of it. Just a thought! Amazinggg channel btw Truly obsessed!

[@understitchYT]

I think thatd be really interesting actually, but it would be LONG 😂

[@sazimarroquin]

@@understitchYT that sounds awesome. Malls were such an integral part of life for so long (commercial/industry-wise and also for socializing) and now it feels very different. That would be such a cool topic to hear you cover

[@ShapeyFiend]

My impression from what I've seen in the window over the years is it looked sort of cheaply finished. I never really understood why the brand had become so dominant.

[@understitchYT]

Thats what it seems from testimonials too tbh

[@Tomes23]

Agreed... I never purchased anything there and the only reason I walked into the store was because my sister did.

[@martijnkeisers5900]

A huge flagship store was opened in Amsterdam two years ago, it only lasted 6 months..

[@understitchYT]

🙈

[@avaelizabeth4808]

everything is so ugly and cheap now

[@understitchYT]

Its such a shame really

[@randombrokeperson]

Even the expensive stuff is ugly and cheaply made. You can’t easily escape the Fashion Apocalypse, no matter your tax bracket

[@plushstrawberryfrog]

It was shocking to me to see the comments on the VS Instagram when they rolled out their rebrand; so many people were demanding they bring back the shows and shaming the women in the adverts.

[@understitchYT]

Those comments are still there too

[@beckybyt]

Great video! I think it's 100% about the quality right now. I actually like variety of their lingerie collections but they're overpriced for what they are, and the underwear/basics are pretty awful.

[@understitchYT]

isn't it such a shame?

[@FF-oh2pv]

Can we talk about the bra sizing at VS? Because WTF is that sizing?

[@Kroger_deli]

I choose not to heed Zoe Unlimited's words because she tends to contradict herself, speaks negatively about women she envy, and praises others, especially men. Despite that, I found the video excellent. I believe Victoria's Secret should return to its roots, but our attempt to push them out of their established image ended up damaging the company significantly.

[@stfu7235]

She incredibly bias towards BLACKPINK. She the definition of jealousy

[@understitchYT]

Thank you, i didnt know this, I used her video as evidence of a public opinion luckily, so at least thats still valid, but Ill be sure to note that for future reference

[@sophiaisabelle027]

We appreciate your insights. Keep working hard.

[@understitchYT]

Thank you! 🙌

[@tika2glamorous]

We also have to consider how toxic VS was to diet culture for young women in 2000s. The diets those models were on were actually scary. Only Eating every other day and that would chicken and salad with water? Their influence on ED culture was vicious.

[@understitchYT]

They certainly perpetuated it but they certainly didnt start it

[@wordsbygemm]

Great video as always! It's really interesting the way the brand started and how successful they became, it's impressive. They could have really just moved with the times and introduced a more inclusive/diverse group of people in their shows but kept everything else the same. From that 2018 interview it really just shows that they intentionally chose not to adapt and made the brand come across as old fashioned/outdated in their views but they could have been innovative in the way that savage x fenty was. VS trying to make a comeback just looks bad because they're trying to do what they could have easily done years prior.

[@understitchYT]

yes exactly, there was no need for them to not move with the times, they were just too high on their horse to see that the ground was moving from under them, and tbh I think if that interview hadn't happened, they would've been more forced to change in an organic way, but of course, another CEO starts bragging and the company is on their shoulders down the hill (this happened before cancel culture too, this is not really a new thing)

[@Mitch-Alex]

I used to work at VS/Pink in 2016 and 17. They were constantly busy, holiday lines were literally wrapped around inside the store. Pink had such a cult following, the people ate up every sweater and legging they put out!!

[@understitchYT]

It was huge until it wasnt, was yours one of the stores that closed?

[@Mitch-Alex]

@@understitchYT Noo it is still open. It's very different in the store now with the rebranding since I left in 2017. They don't really push the whole "bodouir" aesthetic as much. Few shoppers. Full / plus sized mannequin forms in there too, VERY different.

[@understitchYT]

@@Mitch-Alex oh thats so intertesting

[@mashka1572]

The funniest thing, I'm watching it right now while wearing their boyshorts. I like them, they are comfortable. I bought them at tk maxx, so it was a deal yeah

[@understitchYT]

Tk maxx is 100% a company I should cover

[@inferiorinferno8859]

As a Dutch woman, I have a golden rule: Bras from the Livera and panties from the Zeeman. Livera is a very bright and peppy kind of underwear store with its signature colors being white and red and it sells all brands from Sapph to After Eden so its very inviting! As a woman with a petite frame and double E, I cannot buy bras at places like the Primark as they don't carry my size unlike lingerie stores. Speaking of the Primark, the Zeeman is a Dutch brand similar to Primark or Woolworth but with higher quality. Even some of the rich people who only wear brands like Armani, admit that their sole exception is Zeeman underwear because of its high quality cotton. Their socks, panties and boxers are amongst the best out there which is why they've gotten big enough to start expanding to nearby countries like Germany. I like designing prints and I always say, if I'd ever partner up with someone I would like it to be Zeeman because of their textile quality. My mom who's been around for more then 50 years can also attest to how one can really tell they use their profits to invest in higher quality as they truly have improved over the decades.

[@understitchYT]

Forgive me if Im wrong, but is zeeman the brand that way back when had some kind of connection to K3? Just the name sounds so familiar and I was a huge K3 fan in my childhood because of trips to Efterling and Slagharen

[@heidisaglund3443]

What I noticed when shopping at VS in 2018, was the absolutely boring merchandice in the store. Nothing inspiring or beautiful enough for me to want to spend my money there. I had no idea of all the politics mentioned here in the video.

[@understitchYT]

Well there s a huge problem, if its uninspiring, who would shop?

[@heidisaglund3443]

@@understitchYT but that's a designer issue, not a political issue.

[@understitchYT]

@@heidisaglund3443 yes entirely

[@wvanderwahl]

Part of the problem were those shows that became a spectacle and not in a good way. The girls at the beginning were almost all exclusively white and looked like Las Vegas showgirls meets Folies Bergere. The "outfits" were hard to see under the enormous wings and head pieces.

[@understitchYT]

It was never about the actual clothes tho, it was literlly all just advertising

[@chivalryisdead1955]

Really like the videos! great quality ! being interested in fashion .. it really helps having all the information in one place with such important detail.. thanks! keep it up

[@understitchYT]

Im so glad you like the videos, tysm for watching 🙌

[@andreanorton9902]

I miss the second skin satin bras of the 90’s.

[@understitchYT]

not the wonderbra?

[@mdml0]

Didn't women also like watching the annual fashion show? I saw a lot of memes about it including that one where you dress for the job you want. The fashion shows were very creative and gorgous and many models were competing to be on the show. I think VS knew their niche market and went with it but times are changing. Sexy is no longer a marketing term seen in a positive way. Seems like we're all rolling back to utilitarian underwear.

[@understitchYT]

Yes! A lot of women loved it and saw it as a fun display, really the problem was that they didnt realise that they could do the same splashy show just with more inclusivity, instead they made it much duller, but not really for any good reason

[@ripwednesdayadams]

Vogue should have asked Ed Razik why Victoria’s Secret spent decades pandering to men when women are the ones who wear lingerie. It’s no surprise VS is failing. Their bras are uncomfortable, I could never find a bra that actually fit well without leaving small gaps. They were extremely overpriced for what you were getting. Not to mention the whole company was run by misogynists and predators.

[@understitchYT]

Well, the answer to that is simple, from the beginning the goal of VS was to cater to the men that wanted to buy their SOs gifts and didn't have a place that catered to what they were looking for in a shopping experience, and then later, product. Men buying women's lingerie is a chunk of the market and it helped it grow well. But what's confusing is when they changed their target market to be women who wanted to buy sexy gifts for their husbands, why they didn't take the time to create good product to go with it. I know they rectified that in the 90s, but it didn't take long for the product fit to go back to being secondary to the aesthetic. I think there certainly is a market for that, underwear that isn't really meant to be worn so much as taken off, but its confusing to have that then mixed with garments that are meant to be wearable but still not have good thought of the comfort. Certainly more thought needed to go into it, but it did well for what it did, at least until it fell

[@etoufee21]

I remember when and ordered Victoria's Secret when it was a mail order catalog. Very romantic soft femme porn, boudoir boutique, playing classic music. I even bought the cassette they played in stores. I think they should revisit the romance. The look of the stores especially

[@understitchYT]

Thats fantastic! I read the perfumes from this period were absolutely huge too. On their boudoir-esque stores; I studied their store layouts in university and it was absolutely fascinating how they led people through the store with more special items, had the more wearable things accessible and then used to use the perfume as an upsell at the end. It was so calculated and really interesting

[@paichan33]

IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS ONE THANK YOU

[@understitchYT]

Im so glad 🥹

[@marijamihailova7627]

Good riddance. It always felt like they are the ‘basic bitch’ go to brand. Which in retrospect did not age well.

[@understitchYT]

In fairness, it could’ve aged well if they had handled it better

[@lovepuppy2242]

I hadn't bought anything from them until this year. And the only reason for that is, despite living in latin america, finding underwear for a curvy body is fing hard. The stores in the city that do have the right shapes are so cheap, everything is poliestor and badly made. I don't care that its 3 bucks for a thong if i have to buy 7 every month. I finally gave up and decided to check out VS, the only praise I can give is that they had cotton L thongs. I need to go buy a new bra and i am DREADING it.

[@understitchYT]

Im told buying a bra is the worst, I wonder why that need has never been filled

[@katharinaaaa]

VS's downfall was long overdue. For years the supermodel catwalk show distracted from the misogynistic concept and poor quality of products. Out of curiosity (and their stores used to be rare in Europe) I visited their shop abroad when I had the chance. They didn't have my size (normal size every other store has) and the quality was disastrous. No woman wants to have a seam in her crotch

[@understitchYT]

And there was no need for it to be misogynistic either. Feminism and female empowerment can exactly look like the old VS shows if its framed as such. But it wasnt. It was predatory and sexualised in a rather inbecoming way. They could have used the same show and changed the viewpoint and been okay, perhaps after a frame of ‘reflection’ but by losing it now they lost their identity 🤷

[@radguurl]

All they have to do is have the same awesome glamourous show but just include more body and racial diversity. People loved the wings, the glitter, the cool music performances and the fun. Just have women of different body sizes, races and hair textures to model the beautiful clothes and problem solved. I swear, they're shooting themselves in the foot with stripping the glamour out the new rebrand.

[@understitchYT]

It’s wild that they missed this, because it seems so simple

[@nkha23]

I wonder if mens underwear brands will take the Fenty approach to marketing before they have the same fate as VS. Though Andrew Christian, Aussiebum,etc make nice looking undies, they use perfected models who truly dont represent the wide variety of men out there.

[@understitchYT]

Also AC/Aussiebum are uniquely queer and really dont target the straight cis boys at all. I honestly think thats where Skims is doing it right for that demo atm

[@rubaidaallen2764]

The Epstein connection, unrealistic beauty standards and executive decisions are what ruined VS.

[@understitchYT]

Yes completely, people can get over bad marketing, but systematically oppressive hierarchical business structures are less forgivable

[@jula4851]

Who said that that is the beauty standard?

[@anonymousonlineuser6543]

VS catalogue was very popular for their clothing. I am guessing it was a different catalogue from lingerie specific publication. It was mid-level quality but really nice cuts and styles suitable for urban younger women.

[@understitchYT]

I think they had sections, like clothing, perfume, lingerie etc

[@zukini8763]

Yes, they did have pretty undergarments in a broad array of colors and styles, which I loved. But I also loved their clothing! They had cute sweaters, tops, suits, dresses, swimwear, pants, pajamas, etc. I remember buying my mom a robe for Christmas from the catalogue and years later she still raved about how heavy and plush it was. I ordered from the catalogue A LOT. I almost never went into their stores at the mall because they didn’t sell clothing in them. Later they heavily emphasized the PINK brand, which I didn’t care for.

[@daphne8406]

I have never bought VS underwear 🤷‍♀️ The first time I went to the US (when I was 19) I was so exited to have a look in their shops but I found their bras uncomfortable and low quality, similar to H&M bras but way too expensive 😑 Very disappointing. The rest pf the nightwear and such was a bit gimmicki and only to be worn on special occasions , not daily wear. And yeah, underwear designed for the viewer rather than the wearer just did not appeal much to me 😑 I wanted to have pretty but also comfortable underwear, which VS did not offer,it only looked pretty on the hanger 🤷‍♀️

[@understitchYT]

Its incredible that they had marketing that good though, right? Like, when has anyone been excited to go into a h&m or zara in the same way? Even Abercrombie had in store gimmicks, but VS was all marketing and thats just incredible to me

[@miola2083]

They should bring back glam, fantasy, great quality, the fashion show and catalogue. VS should own their identity and focus on strong, sexy women.

[@understitchYT]

Its still feminist to have the choice to be sexy!

[@alyssanielsen8521]

Even now, there is still so limited options for plus size. I just went to their website and went to all lingerie section of the site. I put in my band size and the 3 cup sizes that I fit in depending on brand and bra type and out of the 399 items that the all lingerie section had, only 9 would fit me.

[@understitchYT]

Oof thats not great 😬

[@melaniebermudez4847]

any recommendations for shopping underwear?

[@understitchYT]

I think it was in my savage x fenty video I give a bunch, but I personally dont wear womens underwear so its either brands Ive heard good things about or brands other creators I trust have recommended 💕

[@u.802]

its a good day when you post🤩

[@understitchYT]

It’s a better day when you comment 🙌

[@lukewindley6908]

You say public but what you actually mean is the media. Nobody polled the public to be able to determine their thoughts and their opinion on VS or Ed Razaks interview at that time.

[@understitchYT]

Not everyone thinks the same at all times, yes

[@Unsweetened8618]

Skims is gonna be the dominate lingerie brand....

[@jacksonmahr8915]

A gentleman receiving a printed, sexy lingerie catalogue in the mail to procure underwear "for his wife"....the 80's were an adorable time to be alive :).

[@understitchYT]

Then they put on their walkman and rollerblades and skated down to the arcade for an evening with the boys 🛼

[@peterjason4491]

Great video very informative

[@understitchYT]

Thank you so much 💕

[@explodingducklet6361]

not sad about their downfall! great video!

[@understitchYT]

I dont think many are 🙈 Im glad you liked the video though

[@god563616]

I have always ADORED Victoria's Secret since a teen until 2019. It was always the ultimate feminine catalogue and body care essentials. Its full female bombshell glitz and glamour which is fun and what I resonate with me. I do still buy my favorite's and I love their purses but the new branding is 100% cringey I'm sorry! Savage x Fenty could NEVER duplicate Victoria in any way. I hope they bring the fashion show back in its original way!

[@understitchYT]

I hope they bring it back, but only if its now inclusive in a way that feels authentic. In the 2000s audiences didnt know it wasnt inclusive because it wasnt thought of, now that it is, there should be a way to include that works for the branding

[@daphneyd5762]

I also really loved VS full female bombshell. It used to be such perfection and I loved it. The Fenty Savage never appealed to me. I still go to VS to buy my underwear. I think there is a market for VS and another market for Savage. They can all exist.

[@gata1887]

I feel the same way. I am a 90’s kid/ early 00’s teen so I do miss the glitz and fantasy from the old VS runway shows and the whole feeling of it and I really don’t care if they are “inclusive” or not as I come to realize that no matter what they do they will always get criticized by people who feel uncomfortable by what the brand represents which is the ideal of the true bombshell. I know I am not the only one that feels this way.

[@IronDiva]

All their lingerie were knockoffs of brands like Olga, Maidenform, etc.

[@baronessvondengler]

Lowkey funny how they're struggling. My advice is to get rid of the name all together and start a smaller company with quality items, targeting the perfect female fantasy figures they're clearly still salivating over.

[@understitchYT]

I dont think they can get rid of the name, its pretty much all they have

[@slash364]

i know what victoria's secret is but im not gonna tell you😌

[@understitchYT]

Otherwise it wouldnt be a secret

[@ihavenoclue666]

0:54 it's still a thing. i can tell bc I was workin lingerie in intimissimi. mostly men, but very often woman was lookin at me as weirdo. that was hurtful, bc i have a girlfriend. that was my work, i was respecting all people privacy and i was as helpful as i can be. but beside that i get beat by a man in my work because in his eyes i was a "fa**ot". still can't get over it to this day

[@understitchYT]

You got beat up by a customer?? What? Thats awful

[@SeaBlue1976]

I really appreciate your channel. I live in Europe and i clearly remember an article where workers in Pakistan protested against inhuman conditions in yhe factories of Victoria 's Secret...! They returned back at gun point . Americans believe that only chinese companies treated workers like that. Well,u might all wanna research about it It's ethical Sorry for my English and my broken keyboard

[@understitchYT]

I remember it, wasnt it around the same time Adidas and H&M were called out for unethical production in Pakistan?

[@SeaBlue1976]

@@understitchYTmy keyboard is broken ,yes but the article was about Victoria's secret,i just cannot type correctly. Also as i have been in China (i work in the ship supply) lots of companies Europeans and Americans has nests or like prison windows with bars in order the workers no to commit suicide. Unfortunately most of the companies work like that and besides the clothing industry don't forget the 'ORANGE" phone company with the suicides of the employees,or the ones in China building I Phones stuff,its interesting to watch cults and massive "suicides" but we really don't get interested for people like us,no documentaries for how business in our countries makes people loosing their minds 😔 We,only for cults and evil Chinese we discuss those days,clothimg, their apps,like our apps are sooo angelic 🤮 Thank u for always reading our comments 🙏

[@understitchYT]

@@SeaBlue1976 Its a real problem that needs to be addressed, and to be fair China has done a wonderful job at making those places illegal. But unfrotunately that just pushed the money hungry brand sto find alternative countries, and then they claim they didn't know, like how do they expect us to believe they thought they were getting those prices without exploitation?

[@rizikimichelle5885]

All I wanted is the candy body mist 😢

[@understitchYT]

Ong the perfumessss

[@feathersprinkles]

14:28 Luke looks like such a baby 😂😊

[@understitchYT]

who says he isn't?

[@slash364]

what is future doing in the thumbnail😭😭😭😭

[@understitchYT]

If I remember correctly, he went to a VS event, I think they’re launching some kind of men’s thing, but I made this thumbnail of very long time ago, but it was definitely a VS event

[@gloriafeudjo1840]

I loved the old exclusive vibes and i think their new implied message that being plus-size means your no longer exclusive (by making the aesthetics more free-for-all vibes) is contradictory to their new brand and just wrong. last time i checked i wanted Paloma Elsesser's cheekbones, Ashley Graham's beautiful eyes and Precious Lee entire face, period. all of their bodies look absolutely amazing in dresses, their curves ARE sexy, and i wish that sexiness was included in the 2023 show...

[@understitchYT]

yes exactly! Just because we want to see plus-sizes, darker skin tones and people with disabilities included, doesn't mean they cant be the height of glamour too, remember Aimee Mullins for Alexander McQueen? That was so iconic and her legs were such a huge talking point of that whole season, imagine they took that idea and transferred it into angels? Would have been so incredible

[@overwhelmed_cactus6820]

“Local white man discovers something isn’t made for him, and decides to change that”

[@understitchYT]

in a nutshell

[@LightTrails]

Fit and quality were always the issues for me that are major symptoms of their perennially misogynistic approach to women's clothing. For fuller busted women, which ironically is the look artificilaly created by the push up bra they champion, you had a 22 yr old trying to convince you that your requested size, which they don’t make, is the "equivalent" of a VS 34D. D was the largest cupsize they made. I once read a consumer study into bra sales and habits that showed that 34D was the "average" size bought in the US. I wondered how that could be true lol. Maybe VC sales reps were more convinving than I gave them credit for. Meanwhile, if you knew what size you were, and it was above a D, it was only eyewateringly expensive brands that made them. I'm talking $100+ per garment. Things are a little better now in terms of sizing- Figleaves in the UK was a good example- but good fit, good quality and decent pricing still don’t seem to go hand in hand. There is basically added tax for women with certain body sizes and shapes. Can you imagine if bigger men were treated this way because they take up more space? Or if smaller men paid more for their clothes for the temerity of not being tall or muscular enough to be considered conventionally attractive?

[@understitchYT]

People also seem to talk about bra fit today more than they did back then. I guess because these stores (VS, Intermissi etc) had a higher rate of turnover of staff so they just made more mistakes causing people to complain? idk thats just me speculting, but it is interesting that that quite common customer complaint is seen less now

[@LightTrails]

@@understitchYT There are definitely more brands supplying a wider range of sizes now, for sure, but how long any of them are lasting, I don't know. Figleaves has all but folded. Elle Macpherson's label was a trailblazer in the early 2000s on that front. Not anymore (more like Skims now), but at the time.

[@cinnamongirl5410]

A lot of women love feminine and beautiful things whether a man's going to look at it or not. We love the way beauty makes us feel. Why do the designs have to get boring and plain to look at, just because VS wants to be seen as ''inclusive". Lame. Plus, the tee's are awful. As soon as you wash them they are out of shape because the material is so cheap. It's sad what's happened to this brand. The only VS worth buying anymore is in the resale/vintage market.

[@DavidKato65]

Please do Bottega Veneta next

[@understitchYT]

Its on my list for fashion week, but it may be a fashion week of votes because I have so many brands Im interested in

[@gloriafeudjo1840]

unpopular opinion but i think the link between SavageXFenty and VS is a stretch.. their demographics were never, ever the same. A girl from the mid-west who has never been to a big city, is just not going to yearn for SavageXFenty the way they did for Old 2010s Victoria Secret. maybe the audience was more diverse and so savagexfenty was taking up some of the pie so sales were slightly affected, but overall if VS had doubled-down and not listened to the Internet, we would have had two big lingerie brands that speak to two different demographics. or heck even the same demographic maybe i just pick the company with the best underwear lmao

[@understitchYT]

Youre right really, theyre different aesthetics entirely and obviously meant for different people, but I think thats because savage would have had no idea that their rise would coincide with the downfall of VS, so they were just coming at it from a different angle anyway before the switch, which of course ultimately left a continued gap where VS left. Theyre different aesthetics because they had to start that way thinking VS was going to be their competition, but its really only the timing and the diversity differentiator that gets the two compared, not really the product or worldbuilding itself

[@RichardArpin]

​@@understitchYTWould you say that Honey Birdette is somewhat taking up the hypersexualized ideation that VS used to occupy? Or would you say that given their price point that they aren't really the same?

[@understitchYT]

@@RichardArpin I think without an enormous amount of marketing budget, nothing can take the place really

[@Unsweetened8618]

Skims is gonna reign supreme....

[@annabakay6340]

I hate Savage x Fenty. Victoria’s Secret was always beautiful and angelic, at least to the consumer. Savage x Fenty shows always seemed very perverse and dark to me and to many other people I know. It is very unfortunate that perversion is more popular than beauty in the current society, especially in the west.

[@understitchYT]

very much different angles on lingerie and thats for good reason, savage didn't realise that their launch would come at the downfall of VS, so they were going for that to differentiate themselves, but in the end it wasn't as recognised as the diversity. But yeah, theyre very different aesthetically, its just the timing that gets them often compared

[@annabakay6340]

@@understitchYT That is actually a very interesting perspective that I have not heard much of before, about them being different for differentiation reasons and the timing. I will take that into consideration regarding this subject.😊💕

[@cuchareable]

His wife gay omg I dont know why im fucking cracking lol

[@understitchYT]

Gay used to be a very common name back when the definition wasn’t homosexual of course

[@MyBathBakery]

Savage X Fenty enters the chat‼️😍🥰😍🥳 They were the 1st brand to cater to the body shapes of African American Women. L❤VE them 4 that. 💋

[@understitchYT]

Shame about the way savage is run though

[@MyBathBakery]

@@understitchYT 🤷🏽‍♀️ They alllll have done wrong. Not one perfect company is out there. 💯 Like I said they design items to fit our community. (The Black Female Community.) We’re built differently and nobody cared enough to make anything for us.

[@stevennaumovski6150]

Did you mean Jenna Lyons?

[@understitchYT]

No? She was at J Crew

[@stevennaumovski6150]

@@understitchYT Who was Jenny Irons at J Crew? (7 minute mark)

[@wonderer2344]

A company is alowed to have a niche. In fact it is a must for any business. Their Niche was not fat people. That means if don't make for you go shop elsewhere. But alow good looking girls like me to be able to have the option

[@understitchYT]

Yes, but a niche does not mean to exclude, a niche is the people you target, and you’re lucky if you have others come to you. If their aim is only to exclude, then it’s not targeted, its discriminatory

[@wonderer2344]

@@understitchYT that's actually exactly what niche means. VS never had sins to say fat people not alowed in. But their niche was size 6-8 tall slim busty attractive women.

[@wonderer2344]

You should never cater for everyone

[@understitchYT]

Catering to everyone means catering to no one

[@wonderer2344]

@@understitchYT exactly

[@rhy8336]

what a story, to think they where king of the (underwear) world in the 2000s to being decimated. Stemming from the sexualization that they where selling for so long. The rebrand had to happen because the brand is so well known but what they are going for is just feels unearned, you can hire female execs and inclusive promotion it just came across as hollow. Either make a whole new brand that has that vibe or transparently transform and keep to it for a long time to show people they are different. Also is it time to start an underscent channel:)?

[@understitchYT]

I think anything fragrance based with be on my underskin, channel. Ive touched on a few companies that have fragrances, but not done a solely fragrance company yet, but I am interested in doing it - I just need to find the time 😅

[@wordsbygemm]

Havent watched yet but i love the title 🤣🤣🤣

[@understitchYT]

Big brain title 🧠

[@dgotguts]

Great vid, love dis fucking channel.

[@understitchYT]

Thank you 🧠

[@melbelts4357]

The key word is "model." They are supposed to be the epitome of what is possible for a woman to be. If you're just watching "regular, normal" women, then it loses the inspirational aspect, and becomes less interesting.

[@understitchYT]

Sure but model doesnt mean thin or able bodied. You can still be more beautiful that average while being trans/disabled/not rail thin

[@MegaTinni]

If I wanted to see average, I can look at myself at home. When I look at my sister, neighbor, colleague ... I don't think: 'Yes, I want that bra!'. What's wrong with fantasy? I don't look at a super hero movie and think: 'how offensive to regular men'. I don't look at My Little Pony and think: 'how could we expect real ponies to be okay with this'. And looking at that diversity catwalk, doesn't make me want to spend any money. It only makes me think: 'oh, regular women in underwear, nothing to see here'.

[@bebe3538]

That's exactly how I felt. I don't want to see average people, when I came for the unrealistic over the time drama.

[@softsweetkay]

This but the bigger reason why they failed is because of the quality. It’s been terrible for years, and no matter who models it, if the quality is terrible no one will buy it.

[@thisorthat629]

idk clothes, specially underwear, is different from super hero movies. yes, it's a fantasy, but i also have to be able to see myself in this fantasy for me buy stuff also victoria's secret's shows wasn't a woman's fantasy, it was a man's fantasy yk. and i say that as a person that, at the time, was as close to the model's body type as is realistically longterm possible if even i couldn't see myself in this fantasy, how must other women feel? and yes, you can make women with average bodies look just as good. that's a stylists job

[@MegaTinni]

@@thisorthat629 I'm a woman too. I clearly saw women on the Victoria's Secret shows. "Even you" must have seen they were women, right? They were just a little better looking than me and you.

[@DamienHurts]

I totally 100 percent agree. I find that it's also just pandering to the woke mob and their crew of bullies who refuse to allow any company operate and cater to a more chill consumer base that doesn't care about forced inclusivity, but just wants to buy a good product that they have supported for years. Not every company should be pressured to follow the woke business model, if they get pressure to do it, and they comply, it's totally disingenuous and comes across like virtue signalling.

[@PeoplesChoiceofficial]

LOL

[@understitchYT]

MdR

[@tiagomaqz]

Out of all models you choose Tyra as the cover? I know it’s fail video but still. I don’t think Tyra when I think of VS.

[@understitchYT]

Its what made her career! It was her big break

[@IronDiva]

I think of Jill Goodacre. The OG

[@understitchYT]

@@IronDiva I dont know how many people know her by name anymore, at least not outside her appearance on Friends

[@tiagomaqz]

@@understitchYT Yes but her big break doesn't mean much to the brand as a whole. She is not a go-to when people talk VS.

[@marklagrone3326]

For a long time,their products,lingerie,the models,& of course,Victoria Secret Show with musicians that came to play,were absolutely beyond the beyond. But my experience,when you get that wealthy,& you’re not living right,God will humble you to get your attention. Wish the management & the angels the very best.

[@understitchYT]

They got too big for their breeches

[@momentswithyahya4239]

VS is trash. Very poor quality clothes and under garments.

[@understitchYT]

Such a shame, right?

[@momentswithyahya4239]

@@understitchYT yup.

[@toyamongard5808]

I still buy Victoria Secret… I never knew they were falling

[@understitchYT]

If you like them, theres no reason to stop just because theyre out of favour atm

[@bzztthundaa]

❤❤❤

[@understitchYT]

❤️❤️❤️

[@kham6006]

Sorry but nobody wants to see Megan R or Lizzo in lingerie - that did it for me - besides I can’t stand Megan! She ruined subway as well-

[@understitchYT]

I think both of them look amazing, I just don’t understand why the fantasy had to be made more boring to incorporate more people

[@kham6006]

@@understitchYT amazing? They went woke got broke -

[@pheebsbee1280]

Why can 't they just show the darn lingerie without a model wearing it? Ugh! 🤢

[@jacquelinealbin7712]

Because seeing how it fits on an actual human being, ideally one who is vaguely shaped like you, is important. Especially lingerie, which often has all sorts of weird little straps and cutouts that are hard to figure out how or where they're supposed to go on the body. I want to see the cup coverage, the rise on the underwear, etc. I want to know how it will fit.

[@understitchYT]

I think OP is being sarcastic because when it wasn’t inclusive, people were angry, and now it is inclusive, people are angry again

[@miola2083]

I do have to see lingerie on a person to see how it fits in an ideal world/body.

[@VioletFem]

Aside from all the other issues, you outlined in the video, the more inclusive, marketing would have been more successful if VS had implemented those changes in the 2010’s. Of course, the company was never founded with the idea that lingerie is for every body type. The persistent misogyny of the founder is embedded in the VS imagery, which is why I think this marketing re-branding effort didn’t work. It just doesn’t seem genuine and the public simply didn’t believe it.

[@understitchYT]

Yes exactly, far too late, far too inauthentic

[@Mr_Busted]

Body positivity and trans inclusion and all that is about to end. We are done with all those. I am buying my undies from M&S

[@understitchYT]

I dont think that will ever end, we should be inclusive. But inclusive doesnt mean you have to target everyone, just not be a douche to those that want to engage

[@mcrow9599]

Inclusivity is actually erasing real women. Get woke, go broke. Not ever shopping at VS again.

[@youngslav_official]

The brand is stil hot af and desired and a bunch of brainwashed wokes won't stop it.

[@understitchYT]

You mean the current iteration or the previous one?

[@TarElaRoZ]

There are 5 lies in this documentary the real raymond life was another and his lovely evolution is known also today why this english accent here? Imposing this forced reality

[@understitchYT]

English people don't exist, this is a fact