The CRAZY FUZZ pedals behind The Jesus and Mary Chain guitar sound. Goth Broth Ep 5 Just Like Honey

[@Itsmeagle68]

The first band I ever saw in 1986 and the most memorable 🖤🖤🖤

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

I bet. Some crazy gigs back then.

[@Itsmeagle68]

I was a changed woman after that gig. I realised I was an outsider and that was ok. As far as I remember from that night- we got right up to the front- lots of sweaty torsos and total adrenalin fuelled ear ringing blistering blissful sound.

[@onloveandsublimation4912]

@@CIRCLEOFTONE Please keep doing shows like this.

[@AJ-mb4kf]

Any plans to do a Joy Division Goth Broth? I think it'd be interesting to see you attempt to get the Martin Hannett recording idiosyncrasies / quirks down.

[@domdom9496]

Were they 'goth', well they wore black clothes and sunglasses and If you watch the JUST LIKE HONEY video you will see them with their "goth girlfriends" but anyway labels schmabels.

[@zloboslav_]

Dude, OMG what is this band?! I've never heard of them until now and I looked them up and played a few songs and these guys are insanely good!!! :O

[@mattgilbert7347]

They were the 1980s.

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Awesome. Glad you like it.

[@lezliesammon4687]

1st came elvis, then came the Mary Chain 🎸

[@ELSKEETO]

Teenage Lust!!!!

[@luisbenites4825]

@@mattgilbert7347 No, they were what the 80s were NOT. They were amazing

[@replaceablehead]

OK, I went away, I dug up the photos and the videos. You can see a 8TR with the knobs on the side in their '85 appearance on the Tube. However in interviews the band clearly state that they were so enamored with the sound that they immediately went and bought as many Shin Ei Fuzz Wahs as they could find. I've got some news on the FY-2, 6TR, 8TR, FY-6 confusion. There never was an FY-2 Fuzz Wah, never existed, if it did send me the gut shot. I think this myth began on the internet and was started by people who don't understand circuits. Effects database has dozens of gut shots of the 6TR and the 8TR. Both are Superfuzz circuits, one with octave, the other without. If the JAMC ever played an FY-2 it wasn't in wah form. Since the recording is clearly a cocked wah in toe position the FY-2 can easily be ruled out. So that leaves the 6TR and the 8TR. You don't have to go far to find current images of their pedal boards, all of which are 8TR (knobs on the side). What we'd be looking for is an image of a similar pedal with knobs on top, the 6TR. There is a chance if they went out and bought any fuzz wah with a Shin Ei logo, they may have grabbed one at some stage. At the very least it would be interesting to try doing this again with the 6TR.

[@mrzurkon6013]

The guy from Frederic effects modded a couple of their pedals and did a video while he had them. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rYarkJ6Me6efjK8 It sounds like they're using the 6 transistor versions (at least now)

[@benjaminmoloy7163]

I knew your Chapman and Why Metal Sucks and those kinds of videos, and I agreed with your arguments, but I was never interested in checking out the chanel. But wow, this is exactly what I miss in the guitar/gear youtube community, these kinds of guitar bands are often looked over by gear guys.

[@bbtb785]

Hey man, that was great!!! I requested JAMC (Billy Duffy also) about a year ago and almost gave up. They are a top 5 favorite band of mine and Darklands is a top 5 album for me. Blues from a Gun I think best displays William Reed's guitar sound. I don't think that they would consider themselves as Goth Rock; but maybe a hybrid of alt and surf rock ( they love the Beach Boys...as did the Ramones). I am glad that they cleaned up their sound in their subsequent albums. Thanks again!!!

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Thanks man.

[@Idol2Idol]

You're right. They are brilliant but they're not goth or even shoegaze.

[@baldyhead]

They were neither goth or shoegaze, just great rock-'n'-roll, though they're probably an influence on both genres. I saw them a couple of times back in the 80s, but a bit after the legendary and chaotic gigs they were initially infamous for. I think they used to have the wah engaged as well, for maximum icepick tone. I get a similar sound from my Ibanez wau fuzz. When is the Doom chicken making an appearance?

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Doom chicken will be sooner than you think. Hehe.

[@Vivacious_Lenin]

you nailed the vocals dude

[@jacobpennington7095]

My favorite tone ever so excited!! Should be like a Shin Ei fuzz wah into a twin reverb combo I think!

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Yup

[@mattgilbert7347]

W. Reid switched to Marshalls around 1990-1 and developed a more refined Fuzz tone. I like both. Twins are great tho. They'll take your head off if cranked!

[@mattgilbert7347]

Check this out! OG Reid Fuzzes. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rYarkJ6Me6efjK8

[@mattgilbert7347]

Not Jesus AND the Mary Chain. THE Jesus and Mary Chain. Dude. Heresy.

[@meadish]

THE heresy. ;-)

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Yeah I'm an idiot

[@mattgilbert7347]

@@CIRCLEOFTONE And I am a pedant :)

[@gregviar6032]

“It’s my show so they’re fucking goth!”😂😂Yes! Preach!!

[@rvfiasco]

I just bought a John 5 signature tele and my main sound is shoegaze-goth. I'm really surprised the amount of sustain it has. I have to set it up because during delivery one of the black screws fell out of the bridge on the A string. Thanks for focusing on this style, it's cool as hell.

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

John 5 is a fkn beast of a player. His songwriting never hooked me though.

[@finnmccarthy4005]

nice video btw its 'the Jesus and Mary chain', not 'jatmc'

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Thanks man. My memory is shot.

[@dezb1]

Looking forward to this have enjoyed all the goth broths and now your doing a local band

[@randyhollandsworth626]

Hi, What Mic are you using in this? Great job on this video!!! I was very surprised how well you did the "Just like Honey" cover in the beginning. Well done. Cheers! and thanks

[@TheGarageRecordingSC]

I actually got to see the Jesus and Mary chain at lollapalooza in 1992. The whole bill for that show was awesome.

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Sweet.

[@optimisticmike1041]

Guitar Rigs (that I Know of) from 84-88 William Reid: Gretsch Chet Atkins Single Cutaway through Shin Ei into a Fender Twin Reverb Gibson Es 330 Black Single cutaway hollowbody (possibly Eko Dragon unsure tho) Jim Reid Vox Phantom VI Special (built in fuzz) into Fender Twin (this guitar was only used live i believe) Goya Rangemaster Hofner Verythin Unknown Scratched Guitar (possibly Hondo H935) Unknown Black Semi Acoustic used in Just Like Honey video (Cortez possibly?) All into Shin Ei and that into Fender Twin Reverb or smaller unknown amp seen on live tv

[@bumbog4071]

Guitars used in videos aren’t always ones used on the records..eg black guitar in just like honey video was chosen for its appearance.

[@HenrikMoos]

Being a guitarplayer who has heavely into the Danish band the Raveonettes who again was inspired by The Jesus and Mary chain I’ll give you a little tip. Put a reverbpedal in front of the fuzz/distortion when you’ll be even closer to the washed out sound. Since Raveonettes did that all the time my guess is that Jesus and Mary chain did the same and yes that gives you the sound of an microfonic pickup

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Yep good advice. I did that. With the reverb/echo unit I talked about near the end. But if you listen to the main riff on that song there isn't that much washed out vibe. Relative to them. Haha

[@HenrikMoos]

CIRCLE OF TONE. With a short plate reverb in the front you will still get damn close. Even without a broken fuzz

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

@@HenrikMoos thanks man.

[@thedondeluxe6941]

Love it! Saw them live once. They started arguing on stage over wether the song was in the right key or not.

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Haha

[@TheLexyboy]

i saw them live last year and William gave me his setlist at the end, he had the key written beside each song lol

[@EarlofBaltimore]

Southern Studios has quite the rich history. Founded by John Loder in 1974, many groups from around the world recorded there, artists as diverse as Lee Perry, Big Black, Fugazi, Babes in Toyland, Crass, and Sonic Youth just to name a few. Steve Albini, one of my favorite producers (although he hates that term) as well as musicians, picked up a lot of his recording chops from John Loder.

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

This is one of my fav punk songs when it comes to the pacing of the music. It just keeps rolling kzbin.info/www/bejne/iaPOnmiljKuqn7M

[@sugarnap245]

Sounds great! What reverb were you using?

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

I used soundtoys Lil plate. My fav vst

[@FuzzImp]

I love me some fuzz. I had a Blackmore Strat for a bit and it was something else. Love his Strat wiring scheme. Stoked for that vid and this one rips as well.

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Did it have the preamp inside?

[@FuzzImp]

CIRCLE OF TONE. This was the newer Mexican version with the Quarter pounders and faux middle pickup but his graduated scallop was amazing feeling.

[@NotAnybodyElse]

I managed to get pretty close with a Boss FZ-2, AW-2 and EHX Holy Grail. The FZ has a slightly low battery, the AW is set as a high pass filter, and the EHX is set to spring mode. Very informative video, thank you!

[@marcraygun6290]

Thing is that gretsch are totally hollow body unlike 335 and pickups really low output, I have similar one to theirs and gretsch hilotron pickups have resistance of only about 3.2k

[@randyhollandsworth626]

Still think they were using a Shin-ei Companion WF-8 Fuzz Wah (broken as stated but the WF-8 not the FY-2 or FY-6). Not trolling, just based on having all three versions now. Again, great video!

[@mattgilbert7347]

They HATED being called Goth.

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

So did the Cure. A goth staple.

[@mattgilbert7347]

@@CIRCLEOFTONE The Cure wore many masks.

[@ExternalInputs]

@@mattgilbert7347The only mask he wore was stolen from Siouxsie Sioux. He's still wearing it, although now he's looking like Uncle Fester with a bad wig.

[@clintn6677]

I love JAMC. Probably them, FNM, and Interpol are my favorite non death metal/punk bands

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Yep I'm not that deep into them to be honest. I searched for bands that used the Shin E and loved what I heard from them.

[@jimchristopher4529]

At any given time in the history of music there are tens of thousands of musicians busting their asses and playing their guts out in basements and garages in every distant corner of every miserable town and village on Earth. And in the midst of all of that a few somehow manage to write great songs. It doesn't make them brilliant. It may not even make them happy. It just makes them special. Hence - The Jesus and Mary Chain.

[@oda292]

is that Dr disrespect t-shirt?

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Yep.

[@zoeherriot]

lol - got a christian advert before the video. I think they may have got the wrong audience.

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Haha. I got a Biden ad.

[@FreeCatCheese]

I see your ceiling fan and had an idea of putting the blades back on and mounting a mike above them. = D

[@randyhollandsworth626]

Also, :-) What drum machine were you using? Thanks in advance. Keep up the great work!

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

I use Ezdrummer 2 on this along with some plate reverb vst.

[@randyhollandsworth626]

@@CIRCLEOFTONE Thanks for the quick reply!

[@randyhollandsworth626]

@@CIRCLEOFTONE I hate to be a bother.. but can you let me know the a little more about the Reverb VST you are using. I"m having issues dialing in the PERFECT drums reproduction you created (which was amazing, along with your vocal) . Any help would be greatly appreciated. I have Ezdummer 2. Are there any tips, tweaks, or settings you could share. I'd owe you a pint. Cheers!

[@darz7128]

Greetings from South Wales damn lockdown again im really enjoy watching your videos Ive really picked up some amazing tips on the sounds i love Can u do a quick studio tour i have a small 9x9 room im looking to convert

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Yep I'll do it soon.

[@sugarnap245]

That’s the 8TR, Im pretty sure they used the 6TR on just like honey

[@genelevesque2555]

Great job, sounded amazing! Love it~ ;-)

[@barrywhite7741]

Besides Gretsch and Gibson, there was a Guild starfire iii used

[@GigglingDickhead]

0:11 "Jesus and the Mary Chain" ?? I'll put that down to 2020 Owen

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Haha. Yep. I'm an idiot.

[@GigglingDickhead]

@@CIRCLEOFTONE did you edit it out with youtube editor? cause you missed the second time you say it at 0:32 only this time with the actual record cover on the screen!! lol mate you're an easy target today

[@nickmaatjes5611]

fantastic goth broth episode once again!!!!! are you gonna do sisters of mercy and bauhaus someday?

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Yes and yes. Glad you like it.

[@nickmaatjes5611]

@@CIRCLEOFTONE awesome, already stoked on that. i wish you a nice day

[@AnthonyMonaghan]

Bobby played drums on the first album...the second album, was just Jim and William with a drum machine.

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Right but I'm not convinced the bass and snare are real drums on just like candy. Imo its both. Drum machine drenched in reverb etc and some embellishments here and there with him on percussion.

[@schattenheim]

Again a great show !

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Thanks man!

[@LeeGee]

Good live band but hardly Goth...

[@blakecurtis7809]

I honestly do not think I have heard of this band. I will check them out.

[@Ferruidoblanco]

Apart from the shin ei they use an od 1 to record psychocandy and a DS1 from boss, the shin ei was used on punker songs like the living, in a hole, never understand, inside me, my little underground, it's so hard and was used on single string lines

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Nice

[@lionelbensoussan7702]

The guitare was a Silvertone semi acoustic. Then after he used Rickenbackers and Gretsch but on Psychocandy it was definitely a Silvertone.

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Cool. Do you have a quote etc?

[@mattgilbert7347]

The band that defined my teenage years. Saw them live more than any other touring act (exceptions being local bands). Fk I even used to dress like William. Got a semi. Played loud noise-terrorism music before we learned the secret was actually great songs. Alas, it all fell apart. I love JAMC I hate JAMC

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Haha. Nice.

[@blakecurtis7809]

Watched a punk rock m.b.a. video and he mentioned your channel. So here I am watching this video for the 5th or 10th time. Hoping I wake up to a new video from you tomorrow.

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

It will be a few days. Check out my Instagram. I'm redoing the studio. I have the audio done for the new Richie Blackmore Deep Purple video. Just need to do the vids.

[@RobDobbs]

What I recall coming up in conversation between the brothers and various other people involved at the time and after the fact, there was an amp involved that created the feedback sound combined with a guitar that had microphonic pick ups. The guitar may have been a Silvertone. The fuzz is the pedal itself, but the amp and guitar completed the sound. The amp im told was worn out as was the speaker. When comparing gear keep in mind Ben Lurie had his own gear and was a power house during his time with the brothers from Automatic onwards to Freeheat and Sister Vanilla. For an earful, have a listen to the Freeheat live version of What Goes Around, its amazing.

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Good stuff man. Thanks.

[@benjaminlinus2792]

Great stuff. Goth or not, who cares. Would anyone call out Fields of Nephilim to be a country band for their western gimmick?

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Hehe. I just knew Goths love them.

[@doggwoggle]

Joy Division coming anytime?

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

I've been in touch but only got one response back with no follow up.

[@doggwoggle]

@@CIRCLEOFTONE a shame. MBV? guess they're pretty difficult, lots of production on top of recordings...

[@latontolog]

Nice video! Also really happy to see all the people in the comments here finding out for the first time about one of the greatest albums of all time. As for guitars, they did use Gretsch hollowbodies, but also Gibsons -- probably ES-335. When it comes to your drum machine theory, it's interesting but I don't think there's any evidence of that. The band had used drum machines on early demos and it sounded completely different (kind of an early New Order vibe) than the "Psychocandy" drum sound, as did it when they returned to use drum machines after Bobby left. Also, live gigs from this era (where Gillespie was demonstrably playing) sounded basically the same as the album, only with less processing on the drums.

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

I think they used a drum machine and also did the chains used as percussion trick that they did in the 50's. So there may have been some trad percussion on top of the drum machine. Pure speculation though. People discovering type O negative etc from my vids is one of my fav parts of making these vids.

[@tlinrin887]

blackline, dripedge trim on that bassman puts it between late 67-early 68. It appears to have the wrong logo but u have read sometimes earlier models came with the tailess logo.

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Thanks man.

[@adrianamorphous]

Owen can I just say that you are a huge inspiration to me and my mixes. I always wondered why modern metal just wasn't doing it for me anymore and to hear your mixes was the slap in the face that I needed to change my recording process. I've been hooked on your channel ever since. For years I've watched your videos and still to this day you're a breath of fresh air in this overcompressed, drum machined, cab simmed boring world of music. Thanks for being awesome!

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Thanks man. Means a lot. I'm bitter, not awesome. I'm hoping a few musicians will be poked in the right direction if I bleat about my mistakes and the mistakes of people WAY better than me that wasted talent. Plus I'm awesome. Haha.

[@SSRT_JubyDuby8742]

Nice mate, real nice.

[@the-chameleon]

yea this is awesome

[@behemoththe_cat7616]

Spot On! Wonderful channel! First class research! What's not to like?!!!

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Thanks man!

[@laztube]

For a long time now, I've suspected that some of the songs on Psychocandy used a drum machine, particularly on Something's Wrong... kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZDYpWd-fLWlpdU

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Agreed. Fake it till you make it.

[@WORSAW666]

@@CIRCLEOFTONE For the Darklands album they used a Roland Tr 707 for the whole thing

[@huwwebb8059]

Good vid enjoyed that! Researching this tone for a bit of recording and I think you pretty much got it, plus got some great tips to try out in the studio… nice one 👍🏼

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Glad you liked it. Working on Slayer haha

[@replaceablehead]

Do we have a source for the FY-2? I was talking to Tim of Tym's Guitars and he got to see some of William Reid's fuzz pedals. Apparently he'd bought about half a dozen on the tour and all of them were FY-6, not a single FY-2 among them. Maybe William was so deaf from all that fuzz he couldn't tell the difference.

[@theolang3566]

the trick to the low sustain is having the guitars in a moist shed for 3 years!!!!!

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Lol

[@SteveMurrayMusic]

Good Sounding Band.. Big Room Sound!!

[@DougMayer]

'Tis the season for goth, great vid 🖤

[@Vivacious_Lenin]

guitar is wayyy too dark. Definitely need thinner sounding twin

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Yep the twin has less mids and the pickups they have on those guitars sound more ratty than mine.

[@Sotsky]

How far back did you mic the guitar?

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

@@Sotskyabout 3 feet i think with one 8 feet

[@Deathtrap617]

I saw them. Used JCM900 mkIII master volume, don’t know if that’s what they used exclusively

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

I think they were manufactured after this album but I could be wrong. Good info though if they used them live.

[@Deathtrap617]

It was the automatic album if my memory serves. The Paradise in Boston

[@zaccampbell87]

Nice! Glad to see another goth broth!

[@SwainBjornstrandt]

Dude this was quite a ride.

[@markferguson3745]

Un announced at Danceteria; WTF ? I thought I'd walked into my own wet fuzz dream. Flesh for Lulu were around somewhere at the time ; I recall them as finest live show ever, but who knows what I was on.

[@lawrencew]

The Mary Chain are not goth. Absolutely not. Pop yes, goth not.

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

0:21

[@mattgilbert7347]

The Psychocandy pedal *was* actually broken LOL.

[@donewithmodernlife]

“The feedback has to be perfect” Here here. This is right up my alley. The JAMC are one of my biggest influences & I can attest to how hard getting that early-mid 80’s production quality can be. When you get it right though, oh my...

[@gorrillion1]

The JAMC were not / are not Goth. To say that they were is a mistake. I was a teenager in England in the mid to late 80's, trust me, they're not Goth.

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

The Cure, Bauhaus etc also claim they are not goth. It's adorable.

[@gorrillion1]

@@CIRCLEOFTONE It doesn't really matter what The Cure or the Bauhaus claim to be (or not to be) and I'm not talking about how bands choose to define themselves anyway. The JAMC weren't part of the Goth scene in the 80's or any time thereafter, they just weren't. I'm not a Goth and never have been. In my part of the UK Goths were seen as a bit of a joke and not really such a cool thing to identify as if I'm being honest. But, regardless of whether Goths are cool or uncool, it doesn't matter, but for anyone who knows about the youth culture of that time, it's clear that JAMC weren't seen, heard of or thought of as a Goth band. They were an alternative band that somehow managed to get away with not being 'pigeon holed' into any distinct category (either by the press or by kids that were into good music) so yea, like I say it would be a mistake to refer to them as a Goth band.

[@LarryHazard]

@@gorrillion1 they're definitely closer to punk or bands like the Velvet Underground than goth, this is the first time I see them associated with goth lmao

[@christophermsharples]

I am pleased that you covered this and pleased that you tried to recreate it. The reason you couldn't get howling feedback was almost certainly because you didn't drive the amp to the levels that these dirty weegies did. ;)

[@maxwb399]

Would love to see a video on arch enemy!

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

I have a folder on them somwhere

[@johnmcdonagh1607]

Brilliant Owen, thanks 👍.

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Cheers John.

[@kittavares4334]

Nice cover, everything is on point, but you're right, your guitar sound is probably too sharp, not lazy/broken enough. For the drums, I don't remember if it was a real drummer on the first records, but on Automatic, it was 100% a drum machine.

[@mattgilbert7347]

It's real on the first one. Started using machines on Darklands.

[@blakecurtis7809]

Question: When are you going to get your friend who played guitar on the Slipknot and Fear Factory videos? It was cool bringing other musicians onto the channel. Awesome video as always. Always look forward to the next one. How is your newborn and the wife doing, how are you doing adjusting to being a dad? I am thankful you are still able to make time to do this with the family as well. Thanks again!

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

It's all going great. Baby is adorable. Hehe. Richard will def come back. He's a machine.

[@blakecurtis7809]

@@CIRCLEOFTONE Cheers man happy to hear all is well. Yes Richard. I will be on the lookout.

[@pedrocerda6574]

My ex girlfriend didn't have nipples lol

[@dominikpohli2381]

is the fender amp with an old jensen speaker

[@Vivacious_Lenin]

I suspect they were probably using single coils in those hollow body guitar

[@mattgilbert7347]

Yes

[@djrug]

Goth? Shoegaze? Lol

[@jrr832]

Best guitar sound to date

[@yes7502]

Awesome vid

[@adzbox]

Glad to see more vids in this series. Their not goths though 😜

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Hehe. Goth adjacent.

[@ExternalInputs]

"They're not", yet they are.