Goth Broth episode 1: The Cure and the tone of Robert Smith discussed.

We talk about Robert Smith's tone on his birthday.
To become a Patreon of tone:
/ circleoftone
Instagram for mic positions etc:
/ circle_of_tone
To support the channel please visit here:
www.circleoftone.com
To join the facebook group please go here:
/ 1710152262614319
COMMENT, LIKE, SUBSCRIBE OR ELSE!!!
Throughout the '80s and '90s, Smith's main pedal setup was comprised of a Boss CH-1 Super Chorus, a Boss SD-1 Super Overdrive, a BF-2 Flanger, a PN-2 Tremolo/Pan, and a Jen Crybaby Super Wah pedal, many of which can be seen in thye above image. He's also been spotted using a Digitech Whammy, an EHX Deluxe Memory Man, and a Boss BD-2 Bluesdriver throughout his career.
Live TOTP was a JC60 or 50 amp.
On the second album it was a JC120.
Early tone was a Wem amp with Woolworth Top 20 guitar
Gretsch Chet Atkins Country Gentleman on the recording of The Cure's signature anthem 'Friday I'm In Love'
Other gear:
National Newport Val-Pro 88
Schecter ultracure
Volume is just on par with the drums. No cranking due to potential hearing loss.
A forest was recorded on a 32-channel Harrison 24 series desk inside Morgan's Studio One that he recorded the Cure during the late '70s and early '80s, alongside a 24-track Studer A80 and Urei 813 monitors.
Simon Gallup's bass was hooked up to an Ampeg SVT,
Robert Smith's guitar went through a Roland JC120, close-miked with a Shure SM57 while a Neumann U47 was positioned about three feet away. seven flangers running on 'envelope. Tape delays.
Matthieu Hartley played a DI'd Roland SH-2 synth.
Producer notes: Then there was the tape delay, and plenty of it. "Oh, we were really into that," Hedges agrees. "With the machine you'd go into the left, out of the left, and out of the left into the right. The left would then go to the desk and the right would go to the desk, so you'd have two different delays on a stereo machine, and obviously when you spun it you could either have one delay working or both delays or fade between the two. That gave you the effect of it going jang-jang, jang-jang-jang-jang-jang-jang-jang - you could actually have a half-speed delay and then the double-speed one would come through it as you switched the other fader on. I also remember us experimenting with sound on sound on tape delays. There'd be a big rush, a big build-up of sound on top of itself, getting really messy, and that was great, kind of like a reggae thing. Reggae used that quite a lot.
Top of the Pops performance
• The Cure - A Forest * ...
The Robert Palmer incident
• The Cure - "A Forest" ...
If you know anything else, let me know in the comments!

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Re the pic of my setup, the mic in the middle was closer on my final position (3 feet). I then promplty deleted my pics of settings etc by mistake. I'm a pro. So no Instagram pics for this one.

[@xplanet2112]

Any video that mentions, The Cure, Type O Negative, Paradise Lost and Prince gets the most authentic thumbs up ever!

[@the-chameleon]

The Chameleons would also be incredible to explore with their use of the Micro-Frets guitars.

[@Ronny1031]

Killing Joke, i always think of the song Love Like Blood when I think of that 80s goth sound

[@davidellis5141]

100 % Agreed . Most Killing Joke was one take. The Mix was the key.

[@TheGarageRecordingSC]

Definitely gotta do Killing Joke !!!

[@greckendale]

Pandemonium: Black Moon.

[@zacharydavid403]

OMG Killing Joke must be done next!

[@42t16]

@@davidellis5141 just saw killing joke... it was epic!!

[@kontsnorification]

Christian death. But let’s start at the beginning, joy division.

[@BLeeFAFO]

I agree. As an American that fixated on a ton of UK Post Punk/Goth bands, I say start with Joy Division as well. But being a Yank, I vehemently push Christian Death and 45 Grave, TSOL , Kommunity FK and Empire Hydeous. Maybe even our Ozzies The Birthday Party somewhere in there too ;)

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

I missed this comment but I played Christian Death so much on my last road trip that I got out of the car with a different mindset. Crows and bat's made up my shadow.

[@kontsnorification]

Looking forward to that episode!

[@SPAWNSY]

@@CIRCLEOFTONE Dude, YES! Christian Death!

[@DarkturtleX]

When thinking of Goth music I always think of the song Misteryland by Die Ärzte

[@zeenehemoth9696]

Robert used an Electric Mistress at some point for his work with The Cure. The MXR Flanger was used while he was touring with Siouxsie and the Banshees. He used John McGeoch's pedalboard.

[@Widthatnut]

Smith used a MXR M117 for the recording of "Seventeen Seconds" LP.

[@Gonzo2707]

Goth guitar? John McGeoch. Absolute must. Hugely influential player who‘s practically forgotten today.

[@clairekilduff5930]

Seriously.

[@nicksummers2252]

Fields of the Nephilim, Joy Division, and Sisters of Mercy (a good friend of mine wrote and produced several SOM tracks on the 'Floodland' album).

[@robertpetre9378]

Nick Summers Fields of the Nephilim use a Big Muff fuzz pedal on their early 80’s goth rock albums and a lot of flange

[@elpupogriton]

What a wonderful video Owen! Robert Smith is such a legend (and a rather underappreciated guitar player...). Happy 60th to Robert and here’s to many more years of amazing music...

[@DennisMollanOfficial]

Great stuff... keep the goth tones coming! You've inspired us to look into releasing a flanger

[@Doubleentendre69]

Excited for more! Great video.

[@FuzzImp]

That live show was amazing. Thanks for linking that the other day.

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

That's why it's called Circle of Tone. We help each other out.

[@swettyspaghtti]

Awesome vid man. You always do your homework!

[@retardgroove]

Rozz era Christian Death, Shadow Project, Bauhaus, Joy Division, Samhain, Cross Stitched Eyes, TSOL (Dance With Me era), Flower Leperds

[@angel2of7death]

Awesome vid - incredibly informative and entertaining. Thank you!

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Thanks! Glad you like it.

[@versnellingspookie]

Also, another great band that has a bit of that Goth sound is a band called Minimal Man. another band that i'd love to see being covered is The Virgin Prunes!

[@swettyspaghtti]

Goth broth suggestion Sisters of Mercy

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

First gig I ever played had a sister's of mercy song in the set.

[@swettyspaghtti]

@@CIRCLEOFTONE nice

[@kontsnorification]

Forgot about the sisters. Good one

[@whssy]

@@CIRCLEOFTONE Wayne Hussey is the most underrated guitarist of his era. Dead or Alive - Sisters - the Mission. But you're gonna have to get a proper 12-string!

[@robbyag0ny]

Finally. A series I can really get behind.

[@elpupogriton]

THIS is where it all started. WITH Robert Smith leading the pack (and still is....). I remember reading he purposely tunes his strings a bit 'off' to get his signature 'chorus-y' sound. Love that guy, a true LEGEND. Keep it up Owen, you utterly and completely ROCK!

[@itchyvinyl]

Need a Cocteau Twins episode.....if you can even figure out how to get those latter era tones.

[@Peter-by3ox]

Nice... I really enjoy the diversity of your channel man

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Thanks Pete.

[@razattimusic]

So good man. Thank you for all of your gear breakdowns of all the greats.

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Thanks man. Glad you like the noise.

[@Jinballify]

YES! YES YES YES! Fucking aced it man! And put up a long-awaited series up too! Now then, many seem to suggest Sisters of Mercy, but I think they are more defined by that drum machine tone, mixed with hard bass and old Roland synths (you know, that Floodland tone). What I want is an answer to what the fuck was on Dawnrazor by Fields of the Nephilim. That Preacher Man tone never, ever let me go. So here's a hopin'! Still, great job man, and really looking forward to what this series brings :)

[@jasonbailey9139]

I'm not a gear-head when it comes to music (since I don't play), but you made this video very approachable for a music fan. I can't imagine that's easy to pull off. Nicely done!

[@sentientcircuits9382]

5 seconds in and you've nailed it, Owen.

[@chucku.farley]

Alright, COT! great episode..looking forward to more goth stuff!

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Thanks Chris

[@rolandmarckwort]

Great job - I've experimented with many of these tones, and its not easy!

[@guillaumevanrijckeghem7840]

I'm loving these series :) Big up for the Raketkanon shirt!

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Thanks man. Did you check out my Raketkanon vid?

[@rockinbobokkin7831]

Yay! Robert Smith! Underated, original compositions. I love his spare, moody work. Deliberate notes, lots of neck sliding, one or two string tonal fluctuation. Wow. So now I know how he got that lo-fi groove with all that production.

[@mikedoyle1599]

Wow ! What a great , wonderful , Honest video , Thankyou

[@THEQueeferSutherland]

YESSSSS! I'd love to see The Chameleons on here.

[@baldyhead]

Bauhaus. Red Lorry Yellow Lorry; just because not many people remember them, but they were great.

[@christofyre]

baldyhead +50 for love of the Lorries!

[@christothegreat1]

Brilliant topic. Yes boy

[@7pcp7]

you can't beat the 80's for its musical creativity, great video

[@adamsoper9713]

Great video Owen, sounded very close! Killing Joke, or some of John McGeoch's stuff would be good to see (especially Banshees and/or Magazine)

[@slavesforging5361]

Cripes and criminey crutch that sounded good! i need to put half as much effort into my recordings as you. another great video! was pretty thrashed out in the 80's, but the cure were always a band i liked and respected deeply, even if i didn't actively listen to their stuff. you could always tell they were legit, at the barest of ear glance.

[@christofyre]

Loved this video. The goth guitar sounds from about 1979-1983 are what I base my tones on. Would love to see you cover Cocteau Twins sounds from Garlands, Dead Can Dance on their eponymous debut.

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

CT will definitely be done eventually. Glad you like the vids. Goth Adjacent Jesus and the Mary chain are up next

[@squirrelxc5k]

i was just thinking the other day "i wonder if he's ever done a cure video". now you are obligated to do a joy division video lol

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Hehe. Yep.

[@rvfiasco]

I definitely subbed you now. Great content!

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Thanks Ron.

[@davidellis5141]

Both 17 Seconds and Unknown Pleasures ushered in new production & mixing . Paved the way for so many. Martin Hannet & Mike Hedges get major credit as does Steve Lillywhite for " Boy " by U2. Sonically fresh. " 24 Track European Home " !

[@seangehret7420]

I saw this video and thought the title said Goth Brothel. I know I'm way late but this video just showed up in my feed.

[@richf6111]

Circle Of Tone your channel is fantastic and unique. You clearly dedicate a lot of time and devotion to getting all the details just right. It is so helpful for someone like me who works in a busy cover band. Thanks so much for you hard work buddy. Have you checked out The Cure at Orange video? There version of 'A Forest' is immense and it got me into them back in the 80's. The keyboard player used a DX7 live for that track. I have a challenge for you if you wish to explore more 80's / 90's UK goth bands? Take a look at Tim Bricheno from All About Eve. He used boss pedals and Jazz chorus amps in the early days and had gorgeous tone and guitar parts. Could you please, please find out how his guitar parts were recorded , gear used etc. from 'December' a gorgeous track from their 'Scarlet And Other Stories' album. I promise to become a Patreon member if you can !!!

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Thanks! Great suggestion. Underated band for sure.

[@johnspence9718]

Wow !! I love it. I've always been a big reggae fan, and used to travel to Kingston in the 80's to go record shopping. Yes the dub work used a lot of what you discussed. The Cure & Siouxsie/McGeoch are 2 favorite post-punk/goth (we never called it that back then, at most it was an Import in the US, or maybe alternative) but you have to include Daniel Ash w/ Bauhaus. Peter Murphy was the frontman & got the publicity, but I remember Daniel saying he used a device on their 1st single, to make his guitar, not sound like a guitar. He only played one string through all that, Bela Legosi's Dead

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Has to be done one day

[@station2station544]

Well done.

[@A14b19]

Love the way you disect the music . Good to know and a great way to learn . Great.....

[@paullaurieferris]

Good Stuff!!

[@ritualsoundsystem]

Great video! Miss my JC 120 a lot. Even with distortion, every note has complete clarity.

[@thedondeluxe6941]

You could do an episode on Billy Duffy and The Cult maybe? They're not strictly goth, but he has that clean chorus-y vibe going on that's kinda like The Cure. And I've always thought of "She Sells Sanctuary" as a goth tune myself :-)

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

That had to be done. I've already researched that one in the past but never got close. Now I'm not so hung up on getting it right.

[@MrHobocopter]

Could do with some of Nick Cave's original band The Birthday Party, or if you consider them at all goth, Echo and the Bunnymen.

[@montyryan3018]

Timothy Cook Birthday Party would be great Rowland Howard’s Rig is so simple to recreate Fender Jaguar with a 68 Reverb and an MXR Distortion + And a Blue Box

[@QerstyBass]

@@montyryan3018 It was a reissue deluxe with the master volume. Atleast that's that what I've heard. Amazing guitarist. There is a company that makes a tribute pedal to him that is the blue box and distortion +

[@granthambeard]

Bunnymen would be awesome, will sergeant told me he fucking hated chorus and never used it. Strangely in those days I saw mculloch with a JC120, those things were everywhere.

[@maryburke5423]

Bunnymen reallly aren’t Goth, but it’s a good shout anyway, and high time Will Sergeant’s star is more recognised. The Birthday Party … they, along with the cure and the banshees wrote the book on goth but defied the thematic and stylistic uniformity of bands more typically known as ‘goth’. ‘Release the Bats’ is goth vaudeville, goth parody. Would be great to see one of these on the late, great Rowland S Howard.

[@crackthefoundation_]

Just here to pile on the sisters of mercy recommendations!

[@MartinKatscan]

Fields Of The Nephilim would be great goth tone vid. Loads of delay, verb, modulation and interesting 'hollow', 'icy' tones. Bauhaus for interesting use of FX and tape delays. The Mission and The Sisters obviously. Joy Division? Siouxsie & The Banshees?

[@prophet8photo]

Goth or not, I'd love to hear your take on Billy Duffy's tone on the Love album by The Cult

[@DeadWhiteButterflies]

I'm not sure they would come under Goth, but I've always been fascinated with the brittle sounds that Steve Albini got from his guitar when he was in Big Black. Especially on tunes like "Kerosene". You should look at that.

[@JJukstratfan]

Awesome episode. Please could you look at Fields of The Nephilim?

[@The1stMrJohn]

👍🎵🎸😀⭐ love those guitar tones. I remember the days when me and a few of my mates saw The Cure lots(and a ton of other bands), sometimes in rather smelly places, the ones with hardly any windows, black walls inside and sticky floors. No windows and sticky floors... describes at least every other night in my teens! I played various types of music in several bands and remember pedals were so expensive. The only one I have left is an original Big Muff from New York which a friend of mine renovated recently. He told me from stuff that he found out trying to find wiring diagrams that it's a rare one. I bought it second hand for £10 in about 1977 which was a lot of money. It still has somebody's name scratched on it which I googled without results. You can still buy them new, I saw one in Andertons in Feb 2017 for £60, when I was actually buying a Zoom G3xn for £151.

[@johndevitt2164]

amazing stuff, the guitar is crazy

[@dungareesareforfools]

Awesome sound and great choice of song! Those early records are amazing, "Other Voices" would be my second choice.

[@thedondeluxe6941]

Ooooh, I had high expectations for this one and you sure didn't disappoint! Great stuff! In case you couldn't tell, I'm a gigantic fan of The Cure and Simon Gallup is the coolest bass player ever.

[@Vayth]

my suggestion for a Goth Broth episode: Fields Of The Nephilim

[@wsplatinum]

It's debatable how much of FOTNs Output is actually Goth but i am all for it

[@whatwedointheshadows3349]

the boss bf-2 flanger with everything set to noon is a big part of his sound. most of his boss pedals had everything set to noon.

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

That pedal was released a few months after A Forest was recorded. But he did use it after this record.

[@davidyanity]

Some suggestions for future episodes of Goth Broth: 1. The Sisters of Mercy 2. The Mission

[@whssy]

That would be 2 episodes on Wayne Hussey though!

[@ShiroiTengu]

@@whssy depends on what era Sisters is covered. Maybe an episode just focusing on Wayne would be great

[@skeene_6824]

really is a magical song. Easy to pick up and play to and sounds great

[@prehistoricwatergun0136]

London After midnight would be a great Goth broth episode

[@craigharrison1274]

Lots of interesting insights. Enjoyable video. Band request: FELT

[@shaynes.9773]

Though they were very much originally inspired by Sisters of Mercy, I really was into Rosetta Stone in the 90s. As Rosetta Stone grew, they started to add a lot of industrial elements and started to form their own sound. I would love to see you go through some of Rosetta's very brief album catalog.

[@ShiroiTengu]

An Eye For the Main Chance is one of my all time favourite records. I always describe it as how the Sisters of Mercy would sound if Wayne Hussey had stayed in the band and started singing

[@joevampire]

Oh man, I was just able to score a "brand new" mid-80s Boss BF-2 that had been sitting in a music store window for decades for $75. Best thing to happen for my goth guitar tone in a long time. Anyway, band suggestions: Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, Psychedelic Furs, Christian Death, TSOL, .45 Grave, Rosetta Stone, Virgin Prunes, Nosferatu, Pink Turns Blue, Virgin in Veil, The Wraith, Ritual Howls

[@sircliff323]

waiting for that first note somehow knowing what it would be. And the sound was spot on. rhythm stuff sounds like it's harder to emulate

[@christopherecatalano]

Always, The Cure. So brilliant, and the quintessential beautiful gloom band IMO. Loved hearing that intro to...”The Holy Hour”? I used to swim in a small outdoor pool with the “Faith” album blasting out of the basement. Heaven when it got to the “The Drowning Man”. BTW, I owned the JC60 back in about 82. I never got on with it, probably because I needed some peripherals to take the edge off of it.

[@Shadow_Demon_X]

I love how you are saying you are not clipping your strings untill you get 100 Patrons 😂😂😂 Brilliant!!!

[@cirjames2540]

Goth=The Cure Also one of my favorite bands.

[@everythingisnothing2632]

No, they don't deserve that award

[@zoeherriot]

@@everythingisnothing2632 the Pornography album is one of the most goth things I've ever heard. I mean, yeah, you can't categorise The Cure as a whole as goth - but that album is dark AF.

[@user-wl2xl5hm7k]

I usually say proto-goth when talking about these dark post-punk bands

[@stigmatvm228]

Such an underrated band too, these guys have influenced everyone from New Order to Carpathian Forest. Yeah, I also read somewhere that Smith still uses a bunch of old Boss pedals and refuses to "upgrade" - all early analogue / Japanese made stuff from back in the day and an early Fuzz Face too if I recall? Anyway, good stuff. You got his tone down.

[@AtticusStount]

The Sisters of Mercy, circa First And Last and Always. Please ad infinitum.

[@ShiroiTengu]

I second this!

[@TheHelensp]

They had passed their peak by then!

[@christofyre]

Yeah, or earlier. Alice and Reptile House eps are the absolute best.

[@elpadrino1128]

You HAVE to do the Sisters of Mercy - Alice and Bauhaus - She´s in parties. That distorted chorus sounds it´s the sound of 80s goth

[@christofyre]

El Padrino Yes to this. The best song from each of those bands!

[@ShiroiTengu]

Yes to both!

[@MusicTherapyLaz]

I watch the second video before the first and loving this series so far... If you could do Love and Rockets that would be awesome one of my favorite bands during that era that I guess became Glam Rock in some weird way, but they had a heavier sound that I just loved! Of course you could also do the Damned and some other similars like Bauhaus!

[@tatialo37]

I have many of the cds! Love the cure!

[@statelessmars]

You should checkout Roses of Sharon- Title fight Youngest Daughter- Superheaven Bulma - narrowhead Some modern bands with flanger effect in song. P.S TSOL next :)

[@christothegreat1]

Love and Rockets

[@MikeFoerster]

I love those Roland amps, would love to get my hands on one.

[@petercushion9780]

John McGeoch era siouxsie & the banshees would be a good one to do. He loved the flanger as well.

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Funnily enough Robert Smith said he only put his amps loud enough to compete with drums because he noticed most of SATB were deaf from putting everything on 10.haha.

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

@Lauren Doughty great dad.

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

@Lauren Doughty I wish there was cctv when dads first see lipstick on a male popstar.

[@schattenheim]

Damned you are good - Cocteau Twins Garland would be a nice one

[@arthurveldhoen3932]

The JC amp used live up to and including the Faith tour was the JC-160 not the 60. The 160 is like a double 77 with 4x 10 inch speakers. Massive thing and weighs a tonne.

[@TheTurkey79]

Rowland S. Howard Birthday Party & his solo stuff

[@AlvaroLugosi]

where do you take the info? I love it thanks for sharing :)

[@Shadow_Demon_X]

How come there are only two videos on here?!?

[@LordStompyHarpLoonyTunes]

PiL's first guitarist Keith Levene, his chaotic melodic style is a huge influence on 80s dark pop, from The Cure to Perry Farrell's first band Psi Com. Early PiL guitar style was a huge influence on The Edge...

[@Johnnybananass-_]

Robert also played live and recorded with the 410 JC160 alot.

[@SeanMRoberts]

For sure need to get some Rowland S Howard on this series. A unique slant on the goth sound.

[@sixstringer98]

I got a roland jazz chorus 22 a few weeks ago and I'd always wanted a roland jc for it's amazing clean tone and chorus but I never knew why. Well now I know it's cuz it's pretty much Robert Smith's tone in a box!

[@eyeofthetabby3411]

In the name of all that is dark...please do The Birthday Massacre and Switchblade Symphony

[@DiddoLowstreet]

does anyone know what the guitar in the background at 11:22 is? im curious because i built a guitar with the same finish and that’s the only other one I’ve ever seen like it

[@sniffrat3646]

Brilliant

[@sybamunki]

Banshees of course! BTW you might find the JC60 sounds different to the 120 as it only has one speaker. The 120 chorus only goes to one of the speakers giving a wet/dry mix. Won’t get that with one speaker.

[@zoeherriot]

Should listen to All I Had To Do Is Kill Her, live by The Cure, I think it's the Olympia 1982 version that's one of the best - it's scratchy and not professionally recorded - but the sound they achieved as a three piece is AMAZING.

[@the-chameleon]

Suggestion: COCTEAU TWINS

[@anthonyfisher5076]

what do think about Elliot Easton, I'm sure your a fan as well as you play and your taste is so good, and what a great amplifier "THE ROLAND JAZZ CHORUS" WHAT DID Elliot use for those two recording "THY CAR'S AND CANDY O also Robert was blazing " tripping on LSD" a lot back then and did say that about those color's and he spoke about the responsibilities laid on him in those early day's, very good job singing and working all the music up, amazing johnny Mar's next please

[@THEQueeferSutherland]

Holy fuck, that very last bit, so Robert Smith.

[@nicholaspetergagg7769]

Do not forget Comsat Angels,Sort Sol ,Magazine, -etc. This period in time was very good for innovative ideas on guitar, trying not to play blues rock styles that had dominated the sixties and early seventies.I remember reading that Robert Smith also used fender twins for the reverb and a wem combo for overdrive tones.Anyway the Cure Seventeen Seconds album is a fantastic album musically and lyrically and one you can listen to repeatedly .

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Love me a WEM combo. I've seen everyone from the cure to napalm death use one. Sounds like crap but they weee always around.

[@tonyeckman4822]

Black Heroin Gallery, Astrovamps, (old) Willow Wisp

[@thepostapocalyptictrio4762]

I miss the Boss Bf1 Flanger I used to have to play Cure covers w/ my friends. The purple one

[@CIRCLEOFTONE]

Funnily enough I just bought the BF2. For a The Cult video.

[@Michael-rh2lz]

Late comment. But, I feel hearing you do a goth broth on the birthday party or the cramps. Would he really cool to hear