The Dark Reality Of The Christian Music Industry | State Of Grace | Refinery29

[@refinery29]

What do you think is a positive solution to this issue? Share with us below!

[@lovely-mk4rt]

Well, your’s is an excellent first step. Asking questions, understanding the narrative, and being respectful to each other.

[@youareloved9181]

Get to know Jesus FOR YOURSELF! Read your Bible and stop idolizing people. We are all imperfect being and will never be perfect and God doesn't expect us to be perfect. Have a personal relationship with God and realise that God LOVES EVERYONE and His word is The ONLY truth. John 14: 6

[@WintaAssefa]

Dayumm. By the way, I'm making a sand animated visual album over at my channel about my faith. If you want an honest personal album, you're invited to see it

[@WhitneyDahlin]

Please start up a true crime podcast Grace! I MISS murder with friends SO MUCH! ❤ Come back to the true crime community!

[@rivertaylor8416]

Leave them alone. That's the best option. Go down the road and do your own thing.

[@kaseywinter3286]

“We don’t need more Christian artists. We need more artists with their Christianity intact.” -Brian Welch, lead bassist for the band KORN.

[@FlossyClossy]

Amen!

[@FlossyClossy]

My husband learned more about Christ from the band members of Korn than he did sitting in pews at church. We need people of different backgrounds with the means and the voice to reach others.❤🙏☮

[@mrsc6917]

His books are also phenomenal

[@datgrllRITZA]

KORN IS STILL THEE 🐐 #PERIODT

[@321bytor]

Yes, they can write about slavery, genocide and incest then

[@emeraldm0on-yt]

Its almost impossible for black people to thrive in ccm and that should say something

[@refinery29]

+iconforhirexflylleaf Thank you for bringing that up!

[@slappymcslapster8845]

I'd be curious to know what you would base this on...

[@MischkaSoonMi]

Richard Smallwood was just talking about this the other day.

[@lj9578]

​@Hayden Howard that's one artist and a member of a group you mentioned, out of 4 decades of history. And Lecrae is definitely marketed as a rap artist. Many gospel artist have talked about their frustration of not being marketed/accepted as CCM artists by their label and the industry. CCM is lacking a diverse representation, arguably that's the mainstream music industry period.

[@alisalin]

i think it depends on what you count as ccm. all of my favourite christian music artists recently are black but i will admit that i’m not talking about the most well known christian bands (not that i can name a single individual in those bands though)

[@blessed_witkurls]

I love this,although this is only one side of the Christian music industry because black Christian music is a whole other ball game with its history behind it and why it sounds the way it sounds

[@fatimah4408]

Omg this is such a good point. I feel like black American Christian music would have such a stronger unit with its history

[@Elwyn_the_Weird]

yeah, that was a glaring omission from this story!

[@rivertaylor8416]

Gospel isn't going to throw open for LGBTQ either. Even less so to be honest.

[@BreeTheV]

@@rivertaylor8416 This, exactly.

[@sophieladanyi568]

Excellent point!

[@tashdash5241]

I wrote some worship songs that i cared about when i was a hyper-churchy teen, i was a youth group kid, a church camp attending believer, and then a leader, but my parents were more agnostic, but encouraged me to explore whatever i liked. I had the secular experines that alot of my church friends didn't have. My parents preached safe sex not abstinence, my mum was the head of our house, etc. I was always encouraged to share my experiences, how i used to drink and smoke until i found Jesus, and that my testimony was more moving because i chose God without being born into a church. This sentiment was immediately back-peddled when i wrote some songs and asked to sing them at church, i sang in the evening (the younger service) church band, and my bandmates loved them, but the hugher ups said no. I never got a great answer, just some bs about how it wasn't theologically sound, but now that im 20, that i left that church, got sucked into Hillsong then left when i realised it was a money-sucking cult, and have 3 years of college under my belt, i realise my lyrics weren't on-brand enough for the church. It wasn't about purity, or being a worm, it was about the personal love i have between myself and our Lord, and that we are all perfect, that even our mistakes are written, and that we are loved. I wrote about real experiences, things i thought my peers could relate to, and they did, but only my inner circle could ever hear them. My fav song that i wrote was about how even through all the temptations and all my failure, i am still loved, and even if i'm not successful by earthy standards, i'm perfect in God's eyes. One day, when im not so self-conscious, when i find a church again that feels like home, maybe ill share them. I know God wanted me to write those songs in my heart, but for now, i'll keep singing them in the shower. (side note: i hate the term progressive Christian, we are called to love, to forgive, not to judge, but here i am doing that, and some people think its some crazy new idea)

[@mmymmy315]

good on you! keep writing

[@skcvy8167]

hey!! fellow christian here :) glad to hear you have found peace with God and yourself in life. keep running the good race brother, God be with you and hopefully you'll to find a good, loving, Word-based and safe community my man

[@natokajude603]

No one is perfect and we all make mistakes. I'm sorry that the church you attended wouldn't give you a clear answer about what they thought wasn't sound doctrine. They should have given you scripture, or maybe they don't know any. Keep writing and reading scripture and keep allowing the word of God to fill your heart. You will have a lot of songs of praise for what God is doing in your life to share.

[@kuebby]

I'm glad you were smart enough to get away from these creepy cults before they'd locked you in with 5 kids and staggering debt.

[@oluchiibe98]

Would you be willing to share your songs on KZbin? I would rather listen to Christian songs based on realistic journeys to God than mainstream "Christian" music. As Natoka said, no one is perfect, yet God still accepts imperfect people who are willing to live for Him. Please continue to use your experience as a testimony to God's greatness!

[@Jlcdb71816]

The disappointing thing about this conversation is that worship has been minimized to a performance based (appearance, using the right wording, wearing the right clothing, etc.) act when worship is actually our expression/response to who God is. We need to return back to biblical worship which actually has nothing to do with us and everything to do with Him.

[@joyf801]

Alot of churches are performative though, and that's what they are showing here.

[@PickmeshaJones]

She thinks we’re putting ourselves down though 😐 Our God is great.

[@Lerian_V]

It's been commercialized, that's the problem.

[@Aging_Casually_Late_Gamer]

Do you mean not lead by capitalism and corporations, or do you mean worship should go back to not using "the devils instruments" (as some denominations call it) and just be singing by itself?

[@kevindavila625]

Dont worry. God isn't real LOL

[@lunaluna6474]

god there is such a repeating theme of men harassing women for being "too sexual" when its not even remotely related to being sexual. If that doesnt show that the men are the real problem then idk what will

[@icecubeonfire2769]

I was so shocked that showing some accidental middrift would cause an uproar... Not to mention that dancing isn't allowed... It's so restrictive

[@lunaluna6474]

icecubeonfire just shows how perverted men are that they can’t even handle that 🤢

[@elissa8395]

if they don't like it...than freaking don't watch and address your fragile masculinity

[@ivyyoung521]

@@elissa8395Yes

[@mrmusicality994]

In Christian music, women vilify women as much if not more than men... Many women had issues with Lauren Daigle wearing a so called revealing dress... Same with Erica Campbells from a Mary Mary💯 This isn't even a men women thing... It's also a women thing.... In the music industry too...

[@alexism.v.1016]

I rolled my eyes into another dimension when she described being blamed for making her "Christian brothers stumble in faith" BC SHE SHOWED AN INCH OF SKIN WTF

[@L5940]

I would spam these guys with female kpop vids just to trigger them. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nKK1Y3t9oM95eaM kzbin.info/www/bejne/p2fJXn-CgpZ7bLc For the closeted guys: kzbin.info/www/bejne/h6bIoGWeaN-Xd5Y Some people just aren't used to anything and blame others for their own feelings.

[@gc4161]

Thats religion for you

[@jackandblaze5956]

To be fair, it was two inches of skin! LoL!

[@availanila]

I once got "moral checked," before going bon stage coz I was the scarlet letter girl in that church. While on stage this pure girl was wearing a white dress that was skin tight and as she sang and dance and got spiritual and sweaty my friend started noticing that her dress got really see through and she was wearing a red thong and bra-lette inside and the whole church saw and it even went on KZbin line that. Problem was; I got blamed and my friend through association coz our "impurity" caused all that. I'm blind, no matter how sinful I got, I was never going to influence some visual sexual innuendo or sin in someone else like that, I struggle with that concept in dressing myself too, she should have known better. And that's how I decided to not be a preacher anymore.

[@zaba.4656]

@@availanila I am very sorry you were put in that position. But in the end, we're not there for the people but for Jesus only. If others want to focus on the sins of their neighbor before their own, then how are they supposed to "cleanse others" without cleansing themselves first in the name of Christ? Please, do not let that discourage you. It hurts my soul to see church members judging others before themselves, *but* the enemy navigates like a roaring lion in the places containing the BEST elements (followers) who threaten all evil. Stay safe. What we are seeing today in the world is not taking place without a reason. God bless you and your family both blood and spiritual! May the Lord give you strength and peace in the midst of all conflict

[@caitlindominguez6071]

I choked on my spit laughing so hard when you said most of the songs involve water. It's so true lol. Waves, rivers, pools, cleansing.

[@staciebrooks2583]

Water is symbolic of spirit… like the Holy Spirit. It said God will pour out his spirit on all flesh in the last days

[@Jennifer-gr7hn]

@@staciebrooks2583 Thank you. Only God will have the last laugh. Amen.

[@nicolenewsome4863]

Why do you think I got an ocean wave as a tattoo?

[@pearlzie9118]

Um... Crazy how country songs are about living on farms! You're insane.

[@pearlzie9118]

This lady is evil. She hates Jesus. She hates God. Shame on you for this video. So full of pride and mockery . Shame on you.

[@TheArtkaw]

All those rules for female performers (purity tests, not wearing revealing clothes, no jumping, etc).... and I thought K-pop stars had it rough.

[@refinery29]

+theartkaw It sure is a lot! Thanks for watching!

[@pythonjava6228]

The purity tests are a Human Rights violation

[@samd8891]

python java they seriously test their virginity ? Are you kidding me ?

[@isabellacosby3339]

How can you even test that?!!! Those tests have been proven to be false most of the time

[@borednerd2100]

@@isabellacosby3339 sadly people still beleive that myth. Those test keep destroying women's lives around the globe but especially in third world countries.

[@onlychimerically]

"if you sing over and over that you are unworthy, then that's your meditation." wow. got chills. what a powerful being!

[@cyndimelendez2652]

Absolutely why I feel wierd to some songs. Never had the words for it. I thought how could that be this is Christian music. I k we I only like songs that give me joy and peace and strength. Well mostly.

[@Lauren_DeLeary]

Thanks, boo. 🤎🤎

[@onlytruthmatters777]

We are all unworthy. But repent and turn from the sinful life we live. Jesus said to the prostitute "go sin no more". He didnt say "I accept your lifestyle choice .... I understand ..... go on doing what makes you happy"

[@ComradeHB]

@@onlytruthmatters777 any ideology that tells you that isn't worth believing in

[@PickmeshaJones]

Dirk Diggler Quite the contrary, God gave us his son to die on the cross to give grace to all our sins. All we need is to believe.

[@monkey93xf]

Christian music is SO similar and identifiable, when a Christian song breaks into top 40 I can IMMEDIATELY tell it's a worship song before I ever hear the reference to God (the ones that hit top 40 are always veeerry removed from that doctrine language).

[@Three2Anh]

You should check out the good Christian music blog on KZbin! They have indie artists and a variety of genres !!

[@sarahh367]

Tup

[@RosieStudiesUntil2025]

My sister had a christian song in her playlist of non christian music and i was instantly able to point it out before the artisit even started singing bc it all sounds so alike

[@TheNinjapancake14]

The more complex the music is, the better the song😂

[@lcross796]

My mom had a Christian song in Spanish playing through her TV one time (we're Hispanic, btw), when my boyfriend (who doesn't speak Spanish) was dropping me off back home and then he said: "Is that Christian music? I was like "How did you know that?" He said: "Because Christian music sounds the same."

[@KitBasher1]

This video points out how cookie-cutter some of this “worship” music is! - it’s perfect hypocrisy… very little of it is actually from the heart. Music is a gift, one to be shared with other musicians in a group setting where all instruments are creating together, a sound unique to those musicians. Cookie cutter garbage doesn’t reflect that at all - it only demonstrates blind faith and blind following.

[@groussac]

Cookie-cutter? It can be. All music follows a predictable formula. Consider Fanny Crosby. Most of her songs were cliched; all of them were sincere; some of them were great; most of them today are forgotten. There's always the struggle between the old music, the new music, and deciding what we keep and what we discard. Cookie-cutter or not, a song is good if it has meaning for you, if you make it part of your inner repertoire. If it resonates with enough of us, the song survives--at least for a while, until it's overtaken by music from the next generation. It's a process...

[@rhodiusscrolls3080]

Its no advance or comfort but this music has caused me to despise mention of the word worship and what these people think it entails. I want churches not worship spaces and spirit and truth not CCM.

[@timothyconnelley6099]

I'll listen to bands like silent planet and wolves at the gate who make music with both sound theology and lyrical creativity. They have songs that relate in such a real way to situations that the mainstream Christian music won't ever go near. One song I heard by silent planet that was crazy to think about was written from the perspective of a believer who struggled with Paranoid Schizophrenia and the rhetorical question that was posed was pretty much, "does God have grace on those who cannot truly be changed by behavioral adjustments?" It really started to make me think about people with debilitating mental illnesses and the depth of God's grace. In my opinion, (and that is all that it is) I believe we need more of that kind of message that gets the listener to consider deeper questions about the character of God.

[@rhodiusscrolls3080]

I never saw people look more like mindless zombies or talk like mentally ill.patients than in some of these videos where they sing CCM . They are not real about faith or the Kingdom they are lost in worthless delusions and I find it all beyond considerations. Theyre now going into pubs and night clubs where they will seem respected and respectable. TBN and Songs of Praise are portals to this horrifying behaviour.

[@rhodiusscrolls3080]

The worst music in the world is CCM and choirs singing gospel and spirituals ..its quite probable that if David sang any of it to the suffering Saul.he would die rather than recover from his sickness. Theres nothing Christian in bellowing every cliche since time began and talking about slavery instead of anything else which oppresses all men and turning perfomances into the Bibles answer to the Flying Pickets or muttering contradictory nonsense because you think that Christs Mother knew nothing of who He was and other such comedy routines that dont open the Bible ever. In short I long for the silence of heaven where demented musicians wont have me believe that Angels roar at Jesus Our King. They sure as nothing do not in my understanding.

[@Elwyn_the_Weird]

this was really interesting, but I think a BIG part of the missing story is race - gospel music was invented by Black people, and the overwhelming whiteness of popular Christian music is not a neutral fact! I would love to see you guys expand this story to include that!

[@Kayla-ly8rm]

I was just about to make a comment about how much the black gospel music my grand parents and aunts would listen to was really uplifting and stayed it's seperate genre, unlike Christian-rock, christian-country etc that is just like regular genres of music if you changed the lyrics. I stopped believing in god at like age 10, but I will always love the song Shackles by Mary Mary lol

[@jsharp6345]

I feel like this definitely needs its own video :)

[@SemlerMusic]

I totally agree. I would love to explore that in a future episode.

[@scandisnowgirl3696]

I think that conversation belongs as it's own separate thing bc I wouldn't want to divert the conversation from what these people genuinely are struggling through.

[@anarchist_parable]

I think it was actually more respectful for her to do a piece on what she knew rather than attempt to tell a story that she didn't understand but that definitely deserves its own video.

[@sabrinab3337]

It’s really sad how some Christians have to make everything sexual when it really isn’t. It really shows where your mind is if it always goes there. It’s like, I guess you can see it that way but it’s not.

[@krystal3721]

Jumping on your band wagon, it's like... if you see this as sexual & no sex is taking place then you personally just sexualized it. Not me/others. You have made it clear where you're mind is and should be the one to have consequence for that not me over here just living my life.

[@squiffymango]

One time i wore a shirt that said “you can do anything”, and my pastor thought it was something sexual and inappropriate when really its just a motivational shirt that empowers u?? Like he thought the shirt was implying men to do whatever they want with me and my body like???

[@reneebingham7872]

I can’t help but wonder if it’s because of suppression. If you suppress any part of yourself you might project that on to everyone and everything?? That’s how I think I feel about that part of it.

[@xoxocessa]

@@squiffymango ew wtf??? that's terrible

[@bebelc2l]

@@reneebingham7872 as someone that grew up in a very repressive baptist church in matters of sexuality, I think you hit the nail on the head here. It may not be the case for every christian community, but in my experience, the misogynistic mindset of the church enabled everyone - men specially - to project their own sexual frustrations on the behavior of women.

[@juniperbarber2245]

"If you are constantly singing 'I am not worthy', that is your meditation." Wow.

[@arthousefilms]

Yeah, and why would a god want or respect someone who is unworthy?

[@JennetPreston]

True, except in the next line you're exulting in your special relationship with the most powerful being in the universe, so, from a self-esteem perspective, it evens out. After all, most of those who claimed the divine right to wrest the United States from the people who lived there also sang "I'm not worthy" on Sundays.

[@trinityfrank2526]

Because that's the whole point. If we were worthy, then Jesus' death was pointless. That's the whole point of Grace: receiving something we could not otherwise obtain ourselves. Granted, there are more creative ways to portray this in worship music. But if we think we are worthy, that defeats the whole purpose

[@EricaGamet]

@@trinityfrank2526 Sounds like Stockholm Syndrome to me.

[@Eli08ish]

@@EricaGamet It is.

[@johnj.flanagan-hymnsoffaith]

In my view, some Christian music artists can fall into the trap of pride, and instead of simply sharing their faith in songs, they begin to acquiesce to the world, and the individual pursuit of fame, and wealth. Some contemporary Christian artists emulate rock standards and their Stage performances are no different than a secular concert. The lyrics become hardly noticeable, and the focus turns to themselves, not the Lord. We live in an age of great apostasy and immorality, and Christian musicians have the opportunity to reach the lost with a music ministry. It would be better, in my opinion, to record and play Christian music and share these songs on the internet, but not to seek it as a path to recognition and money. Better to just get an ordinary job to make a living, and consecrate the music ministry to the Lord. Stay humble, walk by faith, live out your Christian life simply.

[@charlesellsworth9539]

I could understand that, but then there are bands like For Today and Impending Doom that reach untouched masses at their live shows

[@dominicdelprincipe2583]

Because you can't be allowed to make a living playing music! Or video games! What are you, a satanist?!

[@TheSilverGlow]

@@charlesellsworth9539 I doubt it...those who attend those shows just want to be entertained...they are all victims of Christian Music...its all about the money, and self-aggrandizement.

[@oliviabarnes4285]

Then, what should they do about money, because all your talking about takes money. Add family, friends and life in general.

[@mariax8041]

@@charlesellsworth9539 Dearly beloved, U NEVER STOOP down to the world's standards.

[@sandrameesala6804]

My parents constantly asked me why aren't there more "Christian songs" on my phone. This video helped me realized why - that the music has always been bland, formulaic. Give me a song that is musically or lyrically interesting and I'll listen.

[@The.PKs.Podcast]

Exactly. I try my best to listen to christian music but A LOT of it sounds the same. I just listen to worship music and gospel music now. No more CCM😭

[@LevelUp_J]

Facts

[@sofiabennett2845]

Well there are always Byzantine chants😂

[@victoriachopstick7765]

Hi hi! I suggest the song Resurrection Blood by Cody Karnes! Really atypical for a lot of CCM and honestly such a banger 💚💙💜

[@cynthiagonzalez8702]

I literally only listen to silent night by Mree. Her voice is heavenly

[@vapex9029]

i love how stereotypical yet accurate the song was

[@refinery29]

+vapex LOL! Thanks for watching!

[@herefortheshrimp1469]

It was honestly making me laugh how easy and spot on it was

[@micaiahclark]

Lol look up the Worship Song Song 😂

[@julianasilveira4806]

I laughed because I swear I felt almost nostalgic with the generic song, since it sounded so much like all the songs I heard on a guitar in church.

[@lorettaknoelk3475]

🤣 Right??? You're like that's catchy,....and definitely sounds typical Christian pop 😆

[@tatiana-pl6rg]

A woman is tempting you? I seem to remember Jesus saying to “pluck your own eye out.” In essence, it’s a you problem, not a me problem bro

[@patl1128]

Both have a responsibility, the Bible abundantly speaks of modesty also... Try 1 Timothy 2:9

[@suavis2063]

It is also written: and do not provoke one another to envy. Seeking vain glory. Jezebel is Jezebel. Follow her or not- repentence goes for the woman who do leggings and the whole top of breasts and becoming a fanous music artist unafraid of novice causing pride (Lauryn Diagle who didnt even know Romans chater ONE yet)

[@Aging_Casually_Late_Gamer]

@@patl1128 except men can still be tempted by a "modest" women. You're attempting to shift the blame.

[@evitam.7071]

@mmzen yeah, maybe... according to your standards...

[@PrincessKLS]

Yeah, men don't want to pluck their eyes out.

[@donaldlang8530]

Thank you so much. As a black man who is LGBTQ+ I needed to hear and see this. I’ve survived a lot of things in my life including the pain of church not accepting me for my true identity.

[@brightbite]

Solution: let Christ be in the music..instead of forcing the music into "Christianity."

[@sheilakennedy3547]

@Luke Monsensey Literally the only sober answer I have come across.

[@suavis2063]

Amen!!!!!!!

[@suavis2063]

@Jeffrey Stern I just saw in my notification that somebody tried to tell you to stop doing something inappropriate so much and then maybe you'd have a brain to understand and obviously that person's comment made them look like they are highly inappropriate and they don't know how to use their brain themselves

[@allansmith6012]

@Jeffrey Stern Shes saying that some music industry dont make it about christ in terms of worship, instead they give glory to man, by how they present themselves............ honestly i dont what to explains this to much work. Do YOUR OWN RESEARCH I DON'T HAVE THE TIME FOR THIS. IF YOU WANT TO BE IGNORANT THEN CONTINUE TO DO SO YOUR CHOICE. BIBLE SAYS LET THOSE WHO ARE IGNORANT BE IGNORANT STILL....bye

[@suavis2063]

What

[@shadex3736]

Question: Why is white Christian music called "Christian music" and black Christian music called "Gospel"? (My reason for the question is outside the U.S..we call all Christian music "Gospel". but coming to the States, I was confused by the labeling. I have learned a lot from some of the comments)

[@rubenarturorg]

Gospel sounds way cooler imo

[@litbopeep5726]

Southern is called gospel. Not black Ya racist.

[@nangolondathika3709]

Damn, that question too hard

[@shadex3736]

@@litbopeep5726 so....you go around calling people racist for asking questions, instead of trying to educate what you know.

[@sarahsarita0]

I'm Brazilian and in Brasil we call gospel every christian music

[@Tsudkyk]

The last time I attended church an old man called me a “punk” because I had long hair. I told him “only god can pass judgement on me.” And never returned to that church. Those people miss the point.

[@les005znbm]

Never saw a rendering of the Christ in a crew-cut.

[@rhondabryant667]

CHRIST SAVES!#!

[@eduardochavacano]

these songs are like drugs

[@krystal7710]

@@les005znbm right, the thing happened to my dad. An old man told him that "hippies" don't belong in his church. Yeah, my dad a Jesus comment as well. And left, because who wants to be around people like that. And they all seemed pretty like-minded...

[@PyroRoadScout]

@Jonathan Wolfe You also missed the point. You can say, and even prove that god passed judgement on men with long hair, but you yourself and any other person on earth cannot pass judgement. It's not your place to shame someone for their life choices, tho I get that you were just trying to prove a point and that you may not have been trying to pass judgement yourself. Still, quoting the bible to someone who likely already knows the quote just seems as though you're trying to find a loophole that allows you to judge. Also, just a quick aside, I really hope I didn't come across as aggressive or anything, I just wanted to point out that regardless of god's judgement on the matter no one is supposed to shame another person

[@beccaspragg1380]

I have such respect for how she asks hard questions but still shows respect. I think she is wonderful

[@eddiebecker2402]

The mistake is assuming worship or "Christian" music is ever about the artist or the listener. It's all about worshiping God and reflecting him. At least, that's what it should be about.

[@marinalina6348]

Count how many times the words I and me get used in these songs

[@MA-yc7pz]

Preach!

[@chrisbruno1343]

thank you eddie becker words to live by i'd say

[@davineuskens21]

There's also music about the experience of being a Christian

[@ad2094]

@@marinalina6348 how many times is I and me used in Psalms🤦🏾‍♀️ It's a relationship with God of course there's a lot of me in it.

[@brucehemsworth6844]

Some people want riches, fame and awards & acknowledgement from their peers. All I want to hear is "Well done my good and faithful servant"

[@nikki8384]

AMEN!

[@garrettjohnson7546]

Amen.

[@Bee_351]

AMEN!!!!!!!!

[@suppersdinner119]

But a servant to God often isnt a servant for the people

[@nothandon5991]

@@suppersdinner119 Why do you say that?

[@jordansunix-basedmachine5222]

"Can't you see you're not making Christianity better? You're just making Rock N Roll worse."- Hank Hill

[@thomasromero7451]

Lol awesome show

[@jasminehill6312]

I love that episode!!

[@madjayneify]

"For me, music is about finding community through shared human experiences, when a song gives voice to something you thought that no one else could possibly understand." I LOVE this, Grace! Personally, for me-- especially as I was ending my teen years and entering my twenties-- this was Elliott Smith. His songs really spoke to struggles myself and those I knew were going through, such as: existential angst, addiction, love +loss, depression, anxiety, introversion, wearing a mask around others, etc. I had never felt so understood in my life. The feeling to understand and be understood is a beautiful thing. Especially as, he's not with us anymore. Yet, his music and lyrics transcend time and speak to the human existence, especially to those of us who have struggled/ are struggling with addiction to street druqs.

[@lboogy85]

Yeah, I listen to music concerning those things. I love emo music however, there are two different effects that emo music and music that is praising and worshiping God has on me. Music that praises and worship God makes me forget about my issues and gives me a higher perspective where as emo music keeps me in the midst of my issues. I simply appreciate the poetic license in this kind of music. However however there are frequencies in music, and at some point I end up feeling more annoyed and drained by listening to this kind of music for a while. It is literally coming from the lower levels of hell in my opinion, because the reason why emo kids or former emo kids struggle with those emotions, is because we're literally sitting in the gates of hell. This is the reason why the Angels sing in heaven all the time to the Father. The frequency is higher, because it comes straight from Heaven. Most of the reasons for all those mental issues is because you praise yourself too much. It's because you focus too much on the problems that you have, and that you don't give your problems to God. He said cast your cares on Him because He cares for you. Most the time we spend our time worrying, when God asked us if worrying will add a day onto our lives? If you actually do what God tells you to do, you will not have mental illness, so when God takes that mental illness from you, from doing the things he tells you, of course you're going to want to praise and worship him. The Angel in heaven understand the value of God, where mankind does not, so thus if you don't have the understanding of how valuable God is, you're not going to understand why Christian music praises him. All your music will be dedicated to you.

[@HolaSoyJillian]

That purity culture stuff really impacted and messed with a lot of us during our formative years

[@Kaison.]

Seriously.

[@stephaneyferguson8394]

So true

[@Indiegirl007]

Didn't it? To this day, I have issues with showing skin, even with just wearing midthigh shorts and a tshirt. All I can think about is my grandmother telling me how prostitutional I look, and how a woman shouldn't drag a man away from his faith.

[@Vale-dh1tn]

That’s called religious/institutional trauma. It’s real. It’s valid.

[@knowthywalk8908]

So the anything goes world is a good idea to you? Std's and fatherless children everywhere.

[@phum4567]

That ten minute worm song is actually really good . I SWEAR I’ve heard it before 😂💛 . Absolutely love your content .

[@Lauren_DeLeary]

Hehe

[@refinery29]

+phumlazondi Thanks so much for being here!!

[@XxLuvroseXx]

I felt like I definitely heard it before too

[@nicolatainui4392]

I found it quite catchy lol I'd love to hear the same song but from less of a we are worms perspective 😄😅

[@VeeLondon1449]

I left the Toxicity of the church. I never, ever left God.. x

[@sarahsmith-tz9cc]

God loves you of course but not every church teaches the true gospel !! I hope you find a true Christ loving church xx

[@slappymcslapster8845]

🤣

[@carmineistael]

Amen.

[@Galworld761]

sarah smith I know how to read. I have a bible. I don’t need a middle man.

[@lindsywarren644]

Well put!

[@mage1439]

Two things: the crass commercialism of the Christian music industry is actually physically sickening, as in it makes me feel like I've got something squirming inside. Understand people, whether it be artists, producers, techs, whoever, need to be paid for their work but something is rotten here. Every time I think of this "let's build up an image that the artist really doesn't reflect and sell God for a profit" makes me think of Jesus flipping over the money tables. Is this much different than that? 2: If someone asking questions makes you write them off without even considering those questions, the problem is with you and not them. This is becoming far too common in all sorts of places today. Why can't people have a discussion? What makes anything intrinsically off-the-table for conversation? This unwillingness to even listen is how you end up with insular communities of people with almost exactly the same thoughts who hate every other group.

[@SuperReznative]

Yes , agreed and thanks for addressing that issue..I too get that sick feeling (the Holy Spirit discernment ) and was concerned for my teenage/ now adult family not having quality ,uplifting Christian music to listen to,,bad a busted family they have slowly left the faith & absorbed into the secular system workplace

[@alluringbliss4165]

What does the bible say?

[@teenybabs]

"If it is hot pink, you should see a doctor" killed me. Literally spat out my tea and nearly woke the hubs up.

[@Anonymous18817]

Satan means TRUTH in ancient Vedic Sanskrit, mankind's original language. Satanisgod.org

[@tiffprendergast]

Nnbhh Knbhj no

[@DevyaniMulik]

@@Anonymous18817 dude, you're everywhere! No it does not, the word for truth Is satya

[@Phoenix-np1iu]

XD

[@nathanhunnisett6199]

@@Anonymous18817 bro bring Jesus into your life

[@idkidk7002]

The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips and walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable. - Brennan Manning

[@pfrost45]

No one is without sin except Jesus. Every christian turns from Christ and chooses their own way at times. Blaming the sinful decisions of non-christians on the fact that christians are not perfect is a delusion. It's like saying: "I'm never going back to the gym! Did you see all the hypocritical fat people in there!!!!"

[@brucehemsworth6844]

Some people christians say on a sunday i want revival, but then on monday can not even find their bible. I do not want that to be a part of that, I want to praise/worship Him regardless.

[@Mimiz8429]

Bruce Hemsworth looool literallly it’s actually shameful, well said 👏🏽

[@andrestapia4419]

@@pfrost45 well said!

[@Izzyforeverlace8chrome]

That should be a lesson NEVER take a human's word for it, go to the Source directly. I've learned that as a Christian, ex Christian and thanks to Christ He taught me and is still today.

[@DavidMorgan411]

I'm surprised Jennifer Knapp wasn't mentioned or interviewed for this. She was a highly acclaimed Christian singer-songwriter in the late 90s/early 2000s who left the industry at the height of her popularity and came out as gay in 2010.

[@MGsupergirl]

I was hoping to see her too.

[@Arionlappy]

Was looking for this comment. Her song "Peace" is still literally one of my favorite songs ever.

[@mercedesr6062]

My thoughts exactly

[@lisalynnn]

We had a meeting at the Christian college I attended addressing Jennifer coming out. We were instructed to throw away her music and to no longer listen to her music.

[@ktlc34]

She was really talented too, one hell of a voice and you could feel the conflict in her music which made feel real in a way that most CCM doesn't.

[@iceqtip2764]

The issue with embracing homosexuality in Christian music is that it is sin, just like my struggle with substance abuse is a sin. A sinner is what we naturally are, and us trying to create a"Christianity" that conforms to our way of being instead of us obeying Christ and trying to surrender our will to his is a subversion of His lordship. If you are a homosexual, I'm not going to pretend to know your struggle. I know it's gotta be hard. Surendering to God is hard. It's hard for me to surrender my heterosexual sin to Christ, but truth doesn't change based on how someone feels. Not for me or for you.

[@cynthiamorales5729]

When I was 11 years old I was walking home from school through the snow. I had on a purple sweatshirt with matching sweat pants. The last period of the day was gym and so I decided to keep the sweat pants on to keep my legs warm on the walk home. The pastor of the church my family and I attended so happened to be driving by and offered me a ride home. What I thought was just a nice gesture would soon turn out to be one of the most pivotal moments of my life which would ultimately cause a wedge between my faith and the thing I loved to do ...sing. The pastor spoke to my mom about how the bible states that women should dress like women and that me wearing sweatpants was clearly against the “code”. That Sunday I was not given the opportunity to join the worship team after the sermon and the pastor intentionally ignored me whenever I came into church. At 11 years old I was excluded from the one place where I felt I could be myself. Prior to that incident I had been singing on worship teams for 3 years including attending summer missionary trips to spread the love of Christ through music. It wasn’t long after that experience I began refusing to go to church and 4 years later I came out the closet to my mother. Things didn’t get better for me and I spent much of my teens and early twenties battling depression. I felt alone and had lost any respect for religion and those who “represented” christianity. It wasn’t until a couple of years ago while driving to work, I tuned into a christian radio station and all those good feelings came rushing back to me. I realized singing worship was not something I needed permission to do and that I could do it anytime and anywhere. That moment I decided to work on my relationship with God because no person or church could separate me from Him.The key to that relationship has always been and will always be music! I am now married to a wonderful woman and we have a child together. We also pray together and she doesn’t mind me singing elevation worship songs at the top of my lungs. Thank you for shedding light on this issue in christian music and I hope this brings validation to other as it has done for me. Thank You!

[@aaaicila_]

It makes me happy to hear that even though you had such a hard experience in you’re life, your relationship with God is still there. I didn’t grow up in a very religious household, but I did grow up having a relationship with God. Sometimes I’ve wondered if I’m wrong for rarely going to church, but I remind myself that God is everywhere and we don’t have to be in one specific place in order to strengthen that bond 🤍

[@mahek3017]

I'm so sorry for what you went through! I hope you are happy now! Sending love and peace!

[@confidentchristian1989]

Cynthia Morales I was a member of elevation they do not serve Christ. They preach that health wealth and prosperity “cult freedom “. The Bible might make us uncomfortable with our sins but, God never cared what you wore. So that pastor was in the wrong. It wasn’t his place to judge your clothes. He is clear on a lot though so don’t be mislead by comfort preaching. We are not worthy of God’s love which is why we needed Christ as a world. Todd Friel, Voddie Bauchman , Ray Comfort those are men that talk and walk Bible. Elevation is a world church not a God church. I don’t miss it. I say this with love as I would to anyone that speaks about the furtick church.

[@Vivian_here]

@Eric Hinkley wow, wrong take. You obviously don't understand simple psychology. That's sad.

[@FLdancer00]

That's great! I wish more people would realize that the church is full of people. And people are fallible. So you will run into those who don't do things perfectly all the time. It shouldn't stand in your way of coming to Christ.

[@prismcounseling]

Evangelicals: "As Christians we value truth and honesty." LGBTQ Christians: "Okay, I'm LGBTQ." Evangelicals: "No."

[@ginnyfromdablock7551]

Don't see how that really applies. Being a Christian means you want to follow what God likes and don't do what he dislikes. He doesn't like homosexuality and people who say it's okay go against Christianity. Not really a good comparison at all

[@prismcounseling]

@@ginnyfromdablock7551 Thanks for proving my point.

[@gayplastic1237]

Very that

[@prismcounseling]

@Fìfì Fẹ́mi Because pleasing Christ means treating people like garbage. Not my Jesus.

[@Aging_Casually_Late_Gamer]

@@ginnyfromdablock7551 There is more verses telling you what you should not eat and how to obtain slaves in the bible than there is about homosexuality. Plus the famous "man shall not lie with man as women" verse that christians LOVE to throw at the community, might have possibly been mistranslated and the actual translation is man shall not lie with boy as he does a women. Because the temples had boy servants working in them.

[@SenoritaConejita]

Honestly, this all sounded like a cult to me. The over policing of the artists, turning their back on followers who just voiced their beliefs, even the labels given to their audience!

[@youareloved9181]

People idolise people instead of knowing God for themselves. Reading the bible and comunitcating with God is the way to go.

[@charlesjenkinson5020]

Hell yea. The measure of how good a song is should be anointing. I felt it on Grace's worm song, 😀

[@megank4621]

You’re not wrong... most people wouldn’t use the title because of a super negative association but yes it has all the rules of a cult. It’s just widely considered benevolent enough to pass as fine. There’s this weird argument that people have to be Christians to be good people yet there’s good ppl all over the world so....

[@ivyyoung521]

@@charlesjenkinson5020 Yes, I heard it too!

[@joyf801]

It is!

[@spiderliliez]

Being in a Christian church is toxic if they think you're built wrong. I joined a Born-Again Christian church when I was 20, and I was invited by an artist that I admired. It was great at first, the music really inspired me, and through the songs, I was able to understand I was loved by God. But I got out there as fast as I can cos the people are just too much for me. I have retained my faith, but I don't believe I have to stay with those people to talk to Him.

[@kelly-annmaddox]

I cried when the lead singer from Jars of Clay got emotional and apologised to Grace. He really heard her and understood how messed up that must have been for her. This series is so important.

[@jessm4430]

Honestly, I want my Christian artist to be real. I want to know about their faith struggles, their depression, and how God is there for them throughout the battle. It’s part of the reason why I’ve been looking to other forms of Christian music, instead of what’s being played on the radio

[@dongysakura418]

That's why I like Lecrae and Andy mineo

[@layoverwithlo]

that’s why i like jon bellion!

[@BriaBarrows]

Facts

[@grungedusky1467]

That's why I like NF

[@victoriachopstick7765]

Elevation Worship has been that for me! They've often been negatively described as "broken music for broken people" and honestly changed my life 💚💙💜

[@kwrigh985]

When they made up that song and music video, I was in stitches because it was so dang accurate.

[@Lauren_DeLeary]

;)

[@refinery29]

+kristinawright LOL!!

[@jennysmelodies]

Ohmygod same. It really was though. I grew up southern baptist (no longer a part of any church), and my boyfriend and I love to make random worship songs w/ random strings of Christian music buzzword phrases.. It's too easy.

[@rossmckay6164]

It's wild watching this in 2024 right after "Saints of Nevada" is released... Grace, you're not going to buy that album... you're going to make it...

[@madisonmackenzie3341]

I think if a ‘christian brother’ stumbles over an inch of skin and such things it is their own fault and shortcoming

[@horrormovies1307]

Phantom Wanderer: God also tells us in the Bible that we should not make our brother or sister stumble in the Lord. Let’s say a brother in Christ is a recovering alcoholic, shall we pour a glass a wine and drink it in front of him? Of course not, we don’t want to tempt him. Same with a sister in the Lord. God tells women to be modest. She shouldn’t dress in a way that would tempt a brother in Christ. If you’re wearing a mid-drift shirt, I’d say that’s not very modest.

[@notamemethememe589]

horror movies This is a very interesting topic. It is either the freedom of what an individual wants to express (in this situation, their clothing) or follow expectations (depending on the person, modest perhaps.) of others on what is appropriate to wear. Now we have the factor of self control and also decency. It is difficult to come to a choice because of the various minds of one individual and those who make up society. Let’s try to keep this civil, I want to hear everyone else’s thoughts.

[@CC-hi9fh]

@@horrormovies1307 I thought modesty referred to not having braided hair and ridiculous jewelry though? I guess all those ladies with diamonds and tacky earrings should be scolded then. Cultural context is everything, and at the time the New Testament was written, women already wore loose fitting clothes. Didn't stop them from getting raped though. :(

[@cheyannecaballero2814]

@@horrormovies1307 god also says woman aren't allowed to preach in church or hold power also the Bible outlines how to own slaves so if we really want to get into scriptures then let's get in them but stop picking and chosinf what you should and shouldn't have to follow. Either follow it all and be a good little Christian or stop making it seem like you're better than someone else because you 'help your brother not stumble' this is why religion is not needed in modern times honestly.

[@cheyannecaballero2814]

@@horrormovies1307 and if you're letting a man tell you that you can't wear a certain thing because all he sees is you in a sexual way then that is signs to not have that type of person in your life. Or youre just so weak willed that you automatically listen. Either way to subject yourself to that type of treatment shows a lot about you. Take control of your body

[@bikadroid6265]

confession: I was a worship leader and YA Assistant lead of the whole worship department directly under the two department heads (i had an office and everything) and served in church leadership literally from age 10 to 21. When I was 18, I was at the height of my leadership and set to be grown as the next Leader of the Worship department. something I’d been working for for nearly 10 years, helping build the church from a single location as it grew into a multi campus mini mega church. My close friend at the time had just turned 18 that year. There was a 34 year old man who was the lead guitarist that I played with weekly, and knew well. He was a manager at the place she worked, and coerced her into having sex with him on work property. SHE WAS 18 AND HE WAS 34! AND HE WAS MARRIED. he was revered among the team as a wholesome and fun guy, and I had to keep this secret as she asked me to protect her identity and He wondered why I suddenly hated him. I went to church one week I wasn’t singing, and I was with her. WE RAN INTO HIM AND HIS WIFE and it was the most uncomfortable thing ever. quickly after the encounter, she ran to the bathroom and cried as I comforted her. They to this day have had no reason to look into the weirdness that occurred. Another time, I came to an elder, knowing full well I should be able to confide in them especially due to my involvement in the church. I cried in shame as I told them that I kissed a girl for the first time and I was afraid of going to hell because I thought I was bisexual. I was slowly ostracized and pushed out. I know that if some of the leaders were aware they would have never tolerated it, but the fact that after 12 years of my life I just splintered off and was struggling and wasn’t even reached out to. my father built the church with his own hands, put hours of labor into building the campuses out of his love for God. our family fell apart. and no one reached out. This is the problem. The church needs to protect the congregation, but how can they if they don’t even protect their leaders? I have so many more stories. I am thinking of starting a channel or blog to share them, so that others who have suffered from similar things in the church and felt abandonment from them can feel a little less alone.... I’m so sorry to anyone else who has been hurt by the church they’ve grown so much since then but it still breaks my heart that they didn’t do what the could to protect us then thank you Grace for what you do.

[@SDChick]

I have similar stories and I’m privately blogging about them. I don’t feel like anyone really wants to deal with my pain. I’m Pagan now. I want nothing to do with the two-faced people I grew up with in churches.

[@Kristyle11]

Start your blog!! ❤

[@MsDidi38]

wow, that is so sad but really common in churches everywhere. Makes one wonder what the real purpose of a church is if not to take care of its people. Too much emphasis on how things appear on the outside rather than authenticity, and a lot of outdated theology.

[@kathope4484]

I didn't go through what you did. But I have been get by the church so much that I don't know if I'm ever going back. I might just be associated with the closest Hillsong for the socials and have my quiet time with the Lord. Church isn't what it was created to be. And I'm honestly exhausted and done

[@투루-l3e]

same. my mainly korean american church has caused so much suffering and breakdowns for me and my friends

[@icecubeonfire2769]

I'm an atheist but I a lot of times when I bring up the question of LGBTQ+ rights to Christians I talk to they get annoyed at me for always bringing up the "gay issue" cause belief is about so much more. Uhm if you can't talk about the issues and discrimination in your own church then why should I even listen to all your fluff fluff happy talk trying to convince me I should dedicate my whole life to Jesus?

[@chrislemons38]

The 2 greateat Commands paraphrased: Love God Love People You can love people and still respectfully disagree with them.. And yes even love them. As Christians we believe homosexuality is wrong, and not how God designed us to live.. So the question of discrimination. My counter question is; knowing that, why would a gay person want to hold a position in a church that believes that? Wouldnt that be like a White man wanting to lead the NAACP, or a man wanting to be in charge of a feminist organization.? Or a Boston Red Sox fan wanting to be president of a New York Yankees fan club? There are churches that ignore scripture and openly accept individuals who practice homosexuality.. So find those and go there... But the bottomline for me is, they should understand why most Christians believe homosexuality is wrong because they are devoted to God and the scriptures. But that doesnt give them excuse to not love their neighbor, no matter who they are.. Seem like no one wants to look at the issue from both sides....

[@chrislemons38]

So basically, what do you mean by "discrimination"? That is a broad statement.

[@ClassicDiva33]

You're right

[@icecubeonfire2769]

@@chrislemons38 thing is I'm atheist for many many different reasons and the whole scripture argument is heavily debated, especially amongst scholars cause you need to take a lot of factors into account, translation, intended meaning,historical context etc. There's actually very little evidence in the Bible that is explicitly anti-homosexuality as we understand the term today and and a lot of these bits can be disputed (the whole you shall not lay with another men stuff can be interpreted in a historical context of men raping other men, not them having a monogamous loving relationship, thus it doesn't even apply to todays ideas of same sex couples. It's really interesting to read up upon if you're open enough to do so! And there are many scholars that do write interesting papers about this! lesbianism for example isn't even covered in the Bible! (Probably cause women's sexuality has been historically denied) Even if you think the Bible was 1:1 advice: isn't there sth. about not eating "blood" too? Or what about menstruating women being unclean and everyone who touches then will be unclean too? Do you believe in those rules and that every women should avoid contact to others during their period? What about women having to cover up their hair and not cutting it? Most of these are argued against as they are seen as cultural references at the time, so to me it seems the issue is not: is there one sentence in the Bible that can be interpreted this way but it's about: what are my/my churches personal opinions and how can I implement them today? E.g.: Biblical arguments have been made promoting colonialism, slavery and racism under the pretense of the bible... Which luckily no one in their right mind believes in today! Bonus points for picking those aspects that don't affect your life and build on discriminating marginalised groups that already have it hard enough...

[@icecubeonfire2769]

@@chrislemons38 also more bonus points for speaking an behalf of all Christians. Edit cause I apparently have a lot to say: except for the sports argument which is just personal preference and a choice didn't you always use an oppressor trying to lead a marginalized group? So wouldn't the arguement be reversed so a Conservative Christian doesn't try to lead a LGBTQ movement and not the other way around? Plus a white man can still support both causes and listen to what those associations have to say. I guess the argument/examples just don't really hold up to me. Plus it assumes lgbtq can't be united with faith whoch as said before is definitely not the ultimate consensus. Your example might work if you put an atheist trying to lead the church as the belief is the main focus of Christianity, not the views on gay rights. So it would be more like telling that sports team person they can't lead the group cause their favorite drink is Dr.Pepper and not coke which is the sponsor of that team.

[@martinone9]

God will never bless something that He calls an abomination. Can’t force a square peg into a triangle,no matter how u try it will never happen.

[@sarahh367]

The Church is not acting like Jesus..he says come as u are

[@gracesanders230]

Come as you are, but leave changed. In John 8, when the crowd wanted to stone the adulteress, Jesus said “The one without sin among you should be the first to throw a stone at her” (John 8:7). When no one threw a stone and they all left, he asked the adulteress, ‘“Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?’ ‘No one, Lord,” she answered.’” What Jesus said next is so important for our church today! We are all sinners, unrighteous in the eyes of God, but Christ took our iniquity and he wore it so that we could become right with God! That doesn’t mean that we should keep on going “as we are” because God calls us to become better, to become more like Him! Jesus didn’t say ”I’ll love you unconditionally” He said He loved us so much that the one condition (compared to the hundreds of conditions in the Old Testament) was to glorify Him in our lives and love Him with all our heart! Yes, Jesus welcomes you as you are. But just like with the adulteress, when we walk away He tells us: “‘Neither do I condemn you,’ said Jesus. ‘Go, and from now on do not sin anymore.’” (John 8:11). He is perfectly merciful, perfectly just. He takes us as we are: shame, guilt, doubt, sin and all. But when He touches us, we are called to walk away with new hearts to be more like Him.

[@SeekerGoOn2013]

Grace Sanders He also said to leave EVERYTHING and follow him. NO ONE is doing that. How come?

[@gracesanders230]

​@@SeekerGoOn2013 I think that so often we get caught in our own love of sin and the world. That commandment, that question (paraphrased) that he asks: "Will you leave everything you've ever known behind to run after me" is one of the most terrifying things to confront as Christ followers. Compared to Luke 9:56-62 (the passage you're referring to in your comment), the way we are called to leave everything looks different in this age. Jesus isn't going to literally stop us on the dirt road to Jerusalem and physically tell us "Follow me." It's different now, but just as difficult. Denying the world and the desires of our flesh is not a popular decision. We, as true Christians, are not liked for it; we are misunderstood, judged and ridiculed for following Christ the way you've mentioned: "leaving EVERYTHING" behind. It's the cost of discipleship. He's not a God that accepts "I'll follow You, BUT...", "I love You, BUT...", or "I want to know You, BUT..." He tells us PLAINLY to take up our cross and follow Him, and we all know that cross leads to suffering, trials, tribulation, judgment and ultimately death. For lukewarm Christians (like me, so many times), it's hard to understand why following God costs us everything the world says should be important to us: money, relationships, sex, idols, popular culture, etc. So we reason that it doesn't have to. We twist it so it does the opposite. That's the AMERICAN GOSPEL in a nutshell. But the Christ of the Bible, just like you've said, tells us in order to truly pursue Him, we can't pursue anything else. He has to be at the center, He has to be our prize. The bottom line is that no one is leaving everything to follow Him because it's hard. We love sin, we are rebellious, and in many ways we hate God (it sounds harsh, but that's the truth of it). But in order to truly love Him and understand His will for our lives, we have to deny our inherently sinful selves and worldly desires, and find our purpose and our delight in the Lord alone.

[@FallingStary]

@@gracesanders230 a career in the lime light, and the platform to reach and inspire thousands. The security of a job and a dream. Would one sacrifice that to ask and do what needs to be done, no matter the backlash?

[@ndapandundulaerastus3108]

Come as you are doesn't mean remaining in yours sins God is able to change us

[@maisantillan7633]

Oh wow so this is why Jars of Clay was out of circulation. Man I gotta listen to their music now. The vocalist is an ally 😍

[@kariarabellalassauniere402]

Judas Priest had and still has an out gay dude for a singer, Rob Halford, trust me, they are pro gay marriage and Painkiller beats any CCM song you can find.

[@Rodrasroom]

Wow I haven’t listened to Jars of Clay in years and I had fallen in love with them back then. Putting them in my Apple Music playlist!

[@pjpeace]

I love them even more now. Always loved them. I must be under a rock I had no idea.

[@xoxocessa]

look up trey pearson! he was lead singer of everyday sunday, and came out as gay several years ago! his ex wife supports him too!

[@rumblefish9]

@@kariarabellalassauniere402 Its not a contest. You can listen to both. Judas Priest is metal, Jars of Clay is indie rock.

[@Sarah-ty5ev]

That fake music video really got me 😂

[@Lauren_DeLeary]

😂🙌🏼

[@fleurmal7648]

The starter packs had me dying 🤣 Worship is hard for me right now. Not only cause most worship music played in church is boring and formulaic, but also it is tough when you know how organized a worship service is. My husband was in the worship band and they would control every move he made onstage. "Don't lift your hands to worship here at the beginning. But once the chorus hits raise your hand. Close your eyes during this part" etc. It was so strange and now I always wonder if those leading worship are actually worshipping or thinking "oh yeah I must look really into it right now". That, plus some band members being in it for personal fame instead of wanting to serve God/church, is why we left that church.

[@a.g.r1350]

What? That’s wild I’ve never been told that as a praise band singer, I can’t imagine telling your band how to worship. That’s a red flag

[@precious7871]

The dark reality is when you shift your focus from God to the music

[@sheilakennedy3547]

Exactly ...

[@Aging_Casually_Late_Gamer]

The "dark reality" of what? Being true to yourself?

[@jesusislife2837]

Amen

[@cocogoat1111]

All these christian comments sound like a creepy brainwashed cult. Glad I got out of it with my braincells intact.

[@johnIZaUWL]

Balance is not always a realistic achievement sometimes you yo-yo & nobody’s perfect in general SO why add EXCESSIVE WEIGHT to the cross anyone bears?!?

[@mcole962015]

As a worship leader, I have so many problems with CCM. I try to look at songs with solid theology and appropriate for congregational worship. When I look at CCM, the theology tends to be very shallow and making ourselves feel good. Outside of a church setting, that's fine, but it is usually expected to be played in church if it is on the charts. Just remember CCM ≠ worship music. Songs shouldn't just say "I am worthy" either. It's true, but it's not the whole truth. I am made worthy because Jesus Christ died for my sins. Through Jesus, I can boldly approach God with no fear of condemnation.

[@michaeldavidson6903]

I'm Orthodox. All of our hymns are like 1600 years old, so we dont have to worry about this problem lol

[@emmaluftie7688]

Truth !

[@_aq831]

Why did god want to condemn us in the first place?

[@amethystmarierosevella312]

When you take God's love and truth away from Christian music, all that's left is religion. The Glory of God is tainted and commercialised, no wonder his presence has left. The music is supposed to be used to worship God, not people.

[@julissaventura4163]

Finally someone said it

[@julissaventura4163]

What has the world turned to

[@ginadiaz7896]

Amen amen amen

[@ginadiaz7896]

This is so SAD

[@mr.hibster9603]

Finallyyyyy!!!

[@brandydinsmore8214]

The question isn’t the problem, its the fact that “you are complicit in the exclusion.” Well put! And bravo, Jars of Clay. They are the one Christian band I actually had a CD from. Proud of them!

[@boofy2445]

They are false prophets!

[@Sesshomaru474]

@@boofy2445 why is why she is into them. Lead singer openly admitting he doesn't care about scripture, which btw is the only thing that can save you. Not just that but scripture is also known as the word of God. to say you don't care is just spitting in his face, and then you can yourself, " Christian band." That's why you were dropped, being pro lgbt is just icing on the cake. And he wasn't just asking questions, just look it up. It's simple really, want inclusion? go to pop or anything mainstream accepted. Of course there's a reason why the devil and his posse want to corrupt christian music.

[@strawberryleigh3220]

Man as someone who’s a Christian, it just makes me so sad to see how close minded people in this community can be!!:( We need more attainable role models in this community who represent every single group. I’m straight and felt I couldn’t live up to the standards put before me as a teen, so I can’t even imagine the treatment and judgement I would have received if I’d come out as LGBTQ. Really sad because the whole religion is supposed to be about love and acceptance.

Our role mode is Jesus. We've forgotten that.

[@misshoneynevercame4832]

Lot's of so called christians don't know what unconditional love is. It means loving EVERYONE, you can't pick and choose.

[@whisper4163]

So i cant love and disagree with how a person chooses to live life especially if its against Gods word? Huh. Guess youd rather be wrong than corrected. But hey God gave us free will.

[@johnreed4159]

The Christian is not supposed to accept sin. Jesus began preaching "Repent". We are not to be conformed to the world, but be transformed by God's Word. Roman's chapter 1 is a warning not to become accepting; NOT condoning that we become like the world.

[@palmirasevin5100]

We have an attainable role model. Jesus. Stop looking at fallen men, and look at the Lord, in whose image we were chosen before the foundation of the world to be conformed. His burden is lite, no man who wasn't on the cross can judge you. We're all saved by the sacrifice of the Lamb, Jesus. There is non righteous without Jesus, so who can give you a standard of righteousness. All have sinned and "fall short".

[@joymbugua5551]

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear

[@rse432]

@WM Amen, Flesh gives birth to flesh and Spirit gives birth to Spirit. There are three major enemies we fight as children of God...Satan, our flesh, and the Spirit of the world. All three will cause you to pursue your own desire and sin. Thank God for his Holy Spirit.

[@corishim629]

Amen

[@breenservin6698]

Whewwww ! Amen 🙏🏽

[@jesussaves6625]

Amen, sister... This video made me so sad. Two worldly women, holding fast to their sin, and yet still claiming to be followers of The One True Lord.....

[@t.abeats2044]

God bless you...

[@billyshakes1643]

GOD HONORING ANGST! If my mom knew she could have done that with my emo phase it would have been over for me lol

[@lalakuma9]

Lmao basically all the xXXchristXcoreXXx bands. But it's kinda interesting how those bands actually do cross over to the emo/hardcore/metal scene, while the other Christian rock bands are completely unheard of by the non-Christian music world.

[@samd8872]

I had a classmate that would listen to christian metal on his emo phase

[@harseybaber]

I love this docu-clip so much. In addition to agreeing with what's in this clip, I think that many Christian musicians are performing in church services because it's a stardom thing not a true "worship" thing. Is that okay? Imagine if a Pastor won a Grammy for best spoken word sermon. Kind of ridiculous. Like so much of American Christianity it's not at all genuine. Loved the "starter packs" described here! This is a great overdue video.

[@SeanStrife]

American Christianity is all about appearances, point blank. Rather than just BEING good people, they have to try and LOOK like good people while still maintaining the hate in their heart (what is it they like to say? Hate the sin, love the sinner?)

[@spencergroup]

American Christianity? There's no such thing. There is only Christianity. It never changes because God never changes. It's a shame that some have twisted Christianity to conform to their own desires.

[@harseybaber]

@@spencergroup Christianity in America that is truly concocted, self-serving and evil. If you believe in "God" - God has nothing to do with it.

[@rnbham39]

Why can't the songs just be about worshipping Jesus for Who HE is...??? Just gotta look at Him. It's not about us, we are called to give up ourselves....

[@followingjesuschrist8729]

Amen

[@taviokatavuteke9617]

I like to think that all of them start out just like that i.e worshiping God 100% through songs, but then later on, Pride sets in and then all goes down south from there. They put them first then God second.

[@discoveringidentity.7090]

Tavioka Tavuteke EXACTLY my friend you are right it’s very unfortunate 🙁

[@chrisbruno1343]

amen

[@nate9361]

Because Jesus was a teacher who was also psychotic. Just because the man told people he was god, didn't mean he believed it, or even that you should worship a god who demands blood sacrifice. That's gross. And violent. Stop that.

[@daygianmorgan826]

The music is not made for the people but God, that's the error.

[@MegaDavyk]

Exactly I have been in churches and been shocked to realise the band is playing to the audience not God.

[@knowsalvation.christjesus9944]

She said “queer Christian “. ... you can’t be a gay nor a lesbian,neither liar or fornicator , theft , or murderer and expect to see the Kingdom of God. Is Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior ? Do you hear from Him? The Lost and professing followers of Christ don’t even know Him. It’s a just mouth service , these people are false followers of Christ and it’s so noticeable. They need to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ , Repent , and endure till the end. Keep the faith , open the Bible and see whether you are in the faith. It’s never about looking cool , it’s about being presentable and blameless through Jesus Christ as our Savior. Wake up brothers and Sisters.

[@knowsalvation.christjesus9944]

TO YOU! In Gods kingdom , all sin is the same CHECK the Bible. All sin is worthy of death. Why do you care about your opinion or anyone else’s when it’s comes to Jesus. Why not see His words on Life.

[@lggjusomef7659]

@@knowsalvation.christjesus9944 and your the problem Hello problem

[@knowsalvation.christjesus9944]

I just want people to see how their sin directly effects their relationship with God and creates unbelief in their heart and mind . I speak from experience,.. The only problem is that people that don’t KNOW Jesus Christ is on the throne, the people who don’t hear from Him , the people who walk in ignorance because they still love their sin. They are the problem, I lived a life like that 10 months ago, Jesus Christ changes lives and everything you thought you knew. You want a miracle ? Ask Jesus Christ if everything the Bible says is true .Ask Him if He really died on the cross WHILE we were sinners. If you get no answer fine ,I’m crazy but I know if you really truly ask Him without being the prideful people we are . You’ll get your answer and your own life will change. You’ll know everything He did is real and then you’ll see how much we and the world have sinned against Him. Yet ,God made a way through Jesus Christ. This is your wake up call, to really honestly ,take a step in faith and ask Jesus to forgive you and really let Him be your God. The world is evil and will continue to be evil. It doesn’t mean we ,you ,and I have to be . I pray Jesus shows you what He did on the cross for You. I love you have a good day!

[@bresimpson3466]

Who is it for, is the question. WHO is the worship for?? Christian music is completely different than WORSHIP. And worship cannot be US centered in any way.

[@devonbridge9871]

Amen to that!

[@MedinaStudiosOfficial]

Worship is given to us to give us the right perspective of God. When we distort it, we are creating a false god.

[@nuriben7910]

It's for capitalism, the only thing more sacred to Americans than the Bible .

[@KHEENGS]

@@nuriben7910 America the country with socialistic policies where government intervened in trade is not in anyway capitalistic

[@LadyBonnieLass]

I can't agree that it shouldn't be us centered in any way. If we are created in God's image, God's beloved, and God lives within us... to describe ourselves disparagingly, I would assume, would hurt God's heart. And to praise God in gratitude for how God made us, and how God is on us would merely bring further unity between us, as we are seeing ourselves through the lense that God sees us. I am aware that what I just described isn't a popular view in how much of mainstream Christianity is taught-- but it seems in line with the loving heart of God, to me.

[@crystalvalentin5191]

Historically, Christian music has always been an industry when you consider music dating from the Classical era, Baroque era, or even the renaissance era. There were even more limitations on music back then ( ex. limits on instruments, chords, keys, or melodic notation), so it’s not surprising that there are still such extreme and damaging limitations in the industry today (at least to me). Although there have been major improvements since the beginning of Christian worship music, we still have a lot more work to be done. Also, I would love to see interviews with Black Christian artists since the music is very different from what was shown in this video. Overall, this video was very well done, the interviews were professional, respectful, but also brought up some good conversations that the church needs to be a part of.

[@BrianMegilligan]

"I would love to hear a worship song that says 'I am worthy'" One of the biggest problems in CCM is that too many "artists" are not first theologians. When you start with a view of how you want things to be or how you feel vs how God has revealed himself in scripture, you can only end up with well-intended but completely misguided lyrics that will ultimately serve to point to our "sufficiency" while defining God in our terms.

[@emmaluftie7688]

Very true!

[@BrianMegilligan]

@Laura B Loved? Chosen? Object of grace? Yes, but not worthy. This is why writers of music for the church must understand theology clearly. The shading of a word can transmit a fallacy of doctrine if not handled carefully.

[@rebeccaabraham939]

Very true.

[@ezrab.8344]

Thank you! This is the comment that i’m looking for

[@claireparcells744]

I think it needs to be clear this is white Christian music which is really just inspired by black music..like all American music is. Larry Norman did not make Christian rock popular. Arguably Sister Rosetta Tharp did when she thought gospel to the main stream. A black LGBTQ woman. This is a really interesting story and has important information but feels really white washed?

[@scandisnowgirl3696]

Does it matter in this context??? They arent speaking about the history of christian music, they're talking about the culture and how its effecting the artists and the fans, and it's a VERY negative and damaging effect. I mean theres a place to have a conversation about your point but I don't think it belongs in this one.

[@claireparcells744]

Scandi Snowgirl you’re right, it is totally damaging! and this video is super important and has a lot of great info. (Also I just love Grace and all of these vids.) But saying the first person to make Christian rock popular was Larry Norman, is just factually incorrect and slightly erases black christian music and gospel. It may seem like such a small thing to change it to the first white man to bring Christian rock to the forefront. But that recognizes black artists, and black history. Which really needs to be done more and more, and the only way to do that is to start dialogue like this! I’m glad you commented! :)

[@kokobunni5897]

facts

[@1991-present]

@@scandisnowgirl3696 it very much does matter. Because the issues being experienced by the artists in this documentary are being experienced by Black gospel artists too. Why not capture their stories also?

[@scandisnowgirl3696]

@@1991-present I literally said that should be a separate conversation bc it's a unique experience to this one. Combining the two just would detract from what's happening to another marginalised group. It's like having a conversation about domestic violence towards women and a man coming along and saying "but it happens to men too!". It diverts the conversation away from people who need support with a valid conversation that should happen in it's own space. I'm not saying that's not important, but that it deserves it's own conversation so that the two dont try to compete with each other.

[@sherrismith8874]

I feel like a lot of these points can also be applied to the Christian film industry: there's a formula; the storyline is bland; no one is truly struggling with their faith or questioning anything in a meaningful way...I always think those films are made with the idea that the local church is going to take their youth group to see it, so it can't be TOO real.

[@chrisbruno1343]

it's sad cause most all of these christian film are actually lies. when they twist the real words of God to fit a hollywood image of him it's a lie. all these i died and went to heaven movies all for what? we don't need anyone telling us what heaven will be like or what God looks like, the bible tells us everything we need to know. all these left behind moviesgiving everyone the wrong idea of what the end will be like and there are more then one story line , which one is real? i guess hollywood figured if churches can make money off God so can we

[@xTwilightWolvesx]

I think Dreamworks did a good job with Joseph and Moses’ story, though.

[@bellamarie9903]

I totally agree. However, have you seen The Case for Christ? It is such an amazing movie and it’s all about questioning faith/ religion. The main character even gets drunk a lot ( which is surprising to see in a Christian film).

[@pisceanqueen1]

@@bellamarie9903 i will have to check that out, thank you

[@Anonymous18817]

Satan means TRUTH in ancient Vedic Sanskrit, mankind's original language. Satanisgod.org Blacksforsatan.org

[@PlugInRides]

Many genres of music have been considered "subversive", in that they challenged societal norms. The rock of the 1960's often raged against the war in Vietnam, advocated sexual freedom, or challenged the consumerism of that period. Punk rock, and grunge similarly challenged societal expectations of behavior. Christian Contemporary Music's main purpose seems to be to reenforce the conformity of Conservative Christian culture, and discourage any deviation or questioning. Using music this way in other countries or cultures, it would be labelled propaganda and mind control.

[@dawnwheeler6530]

I find it interesting that the artists I loved most growing up, Jars of Clay and Switchfoot, are the ones that now speak up about social justice and get backlash from mainstream Christianity. These artists always struck me as so real and authentic!

[@JesusIScalling777]

I love both of those Bands!!❤💯🙏👌

[@brandielee7971]

Im an athiest leaning pagan with terrible experiences with Christians but knowing that some Christians are speaking up makes me feel good.

[@Ambassador4Christ625]

Ha! Real and authentic my foot! Didnt the lead singer or someone in the band from jars of clay no longer believes in God?!? Social justice? That's a trojan horse and its wicked. True Christian's should stay far away from the blm movement!!!

[@Ambassador4Christ625]

Ofcourse, judging by your channel spirituality and yoga and tarot card reading galore. No wonder you thought they were legit. The world loves it's own. If anyone actually opened their bible they would see that christians....ahem true Christians are the most hated. Why do you think Jesus was crucified by wicked men? Yes he did it to save us and He willingly laid down his life but he died by wicked men.

[@amma3353]

@@MrNyathi1 Romans actually..

[@SamMKKK]

I’d always thought Christian and Gospel were the same till I moved to the States and started attending my local, majority-black church. I think this video reinforces this distinction, in that I see the subject matter more related to Christian music than gospel music.

[@yadaya6637]

Because Refinery29 is part of the problem they are racist. Refinery29 choses to pay all the white employees more than their black employees. www.nytimes.com/2020/06/08/business/media/refinery-29-christene-barberich.html

[@soccerruben1]

The part where the first musician gave an account of how men criticized her for showing a smidge of skin when she was raising your hands, I'm just embarrassed that fellow men would criticize women for ''tempting'' instead of the guy should see her as a human being.

[@mattalley4330]

"If it IS hot pink you should see a doctor" Took the words right out of my mouth. If my baby batter was ever yellow or blue or pink I would be VERY worried.

[@plumpy_space_princess]

Ok someone needs to create a new record label and hire all those Christians who are LGBT allies

[@FeministEst]

Seriously. Religion hurts good people. They were being held back by CCM's prejudice. Starting another label would probably benefit and help so many people.

[@refinery29]

+elsiedelorean We're ready for it!

[@lalolapolo]

YASSS!

[@trista7997]

i would listen to way more ccm if they did that, especially if they had diverse artists too

[@Alkemisti]

What bothers me the most is that the Christian faith has been made an ‘industry’ in the first place. Whatever is the original and individual motivation, the market and profit begin to take the lead. For example, I don't think these CCM bosses really care about someone being gay---they are just worried they lose the consumers. They have built an audience that would not accept, so they must keep their product ‘clean’. Building an alternative industry might be possible, because there is some demand for an alternative product, but it would require investors (basically very rich gay Christian businessmen) and a lot of creators and producers---people who are willing to risk their livelihood and put their time and money into something that would probably turn out to be too small and unprofitable niche. About a decade ago, I left this web of commercial evangelicalism behind and turned to the simple and inward mysticism of Eastern Christianity, like the writings of St. Isaac the Syrian. From these timeless works I found peace, harmony, and God that I never managed to find from the noisy and shallow mess of Christian product industry.

[@livingtorture5745]

Ex pentecostal here, and they care a great great deal about LGBTQ issues insofar as to try and either straight-up crush or pull the foundation out from under any rights they might have. Not only that, but the entire thing has always been a sell. It's selling an imaginary problem with an imaginary cure.

[@carlpen850]

@@livingtorture5745 ... it's just all politics... take whatever religious group people belong to and call it what it really is... a political group, and you'll soon see that nothing changes but its name... a skunk by any other name still stinks

[@misomar7193]

@@carlpen850 exactly. religion doesn't belong in politics but now it's all politics. I was told I wasnt a true Christian because I'm a moderate and not Republican. If I was a Democrat I'd be called satanic. It's so crazy. If you truly care about your religion, you wouldnt subscribe to political ideologies anyways. Everything is about politics these days

[@rse432]

@@misomar7193 That is due religious individuals conforming to the patterns of this world and not the renewing of their minds through the Holy Spirit. As a believer we fight Satan, our flesh, and the Spirit of this world everyday. The only way to overcome is through the Holy Spirit. Rev 12 vs. 11. Remember, Jesus said to Nicodemus, flesh gives birth to flesh but the Spirit gives birth to Spirit. People that are upset with you based on your political affiliation are worldly not spiritual.

[@misomar7193]

@@rse432 well said

[@maepeterson7197]

“It’s kind of like a choose your own adventure of Christian buzzwords”. I’m. 💀

[@artnaturally203]

Yes! I would get so frustrated as a teenager because all the songs sounded the same, except for bands like Newsboys, DC Talk, Skillet, etc. Like come on, you're artists, musicians, creatives. I blame the producers for the cookie-cutter sound.

[@Elocin143]

Let's pray for people like this. Being worthy before the Lord in unbiblical.

[@cinlou5804]

Wonder what God wants? I mean that is who they say they’re worshiping. I’m hearing a lot of “me.” Worshiping God isn’t just about music with his name in it. What if God doesn’t even like “Christian Music” does anyone care? Amos 5:21-24 “I hate, I reject your festivals, Nor do I delight in your solemn assemblies. 22 “Even though you offer up to Me burnt offerings and your grain offerings, I will not accept them; And I will not even look at the peace offerings of your fatlings. 23 “Take away from Me the noise of your songs; I will not even listen to the sound of your harps. 24 “But let justice roll down like waters And righteousness like an ever-flowing stream.

[@KD-vm3cn]

Yes, I was also thinking about "they worship me with their lips but their hearts are far from me"

[@afizaaulia1949]

Woah..it's deep.. I thought this issue only happens in my faith...

[@noellealdi881]

@@afizaaulia1949 do you believe the Muslim faith is true?

[@FaHad-xx2ik]

@@noellealdi881 you will get the best answers after you try to research about it🤷🏾‍♂️

[@witchcerridwen]

to whoem does God say this?to the jews or jews and christians?or people who repented and then went back to sin?

[@theresamariemusic]

So the industry's acceptance or lack of acceptance of LGBTQ is the dark secret? I don't think you dug very deep.

[@Maniseesbothsides]

I read this comment while I was at time stamp 2:02 of this video. Thank you for saving me the other 16:41 of my life 😁

[@godd226]

@@Maniseesbothsides hahahahahaha

[@QuincyDisneyVegan]

I agree! I've got a list of people she needs to contact that'll really draw out the purpose of this video: Eric Champion, Ray Boltz, Amy Grant, Jennifer Knapp, Sandy Patti, Crystal Lewis .... I can go on and on and on.

[@datadoesdorian]

It's great to talk about it though. Putting stories like this on display is how hopefully influence change and discussions

[@marywoods8173]

Thw christain music industry is about music glorifying GOD...music that can heal the lost and hopeless...and in the church there is a way we do things...dont like it, stay Out of the church and stop talking about us...we arent talking about you.. Why do people outside of the church talk about us?

[@penpalpaula1858]

The problem here is that “Christian” artists are making songs that would attract and speak to people, when the only purpose of worship songs is to worship God, not to make people emotional or dance or be touched by the lyrics, but to glorify God only.

[@taay_thegreat2057]

For me I stopped listening to it because it all sounds the same to me. Like the melody, beats and lyrics.

[@Kaison.]

Taay_ Thegreat THIS! It’s like I’m playing the same song on repeat.

[@limbosvi6983]

Where is it defined that worship songs are to glorify God only? That's not Biblical teaching. There are but a few accounts in the Bible where music is mentioned and in some people danced and sung for other reasons other than to glorify God.

[@skellymom]

Christian music now is a commodity for sale. Just like mainstream pop, rap, and country music. It's all about the Benjamin's. Capitalism hijacked mainstream music, and Christian music is not exempt from this.

[@emme9606]

I disagree. I think its to touch other people, so that you ALL can worship him together. Its how you connect to each other through worshiping him. Without the connection to others why go to the church service? Why listen to the songs in the first place?

[@justinham2535]

The people in this video will be in my prayers. And I hope you know that Jesus will never give up on you just like He never gave up on me.

[@shantayx8393]

I feel like this should be retitled the dark reality of lgbt struggles in the Christian music industry , because that’s the only thing that is brought about.

[@gogglespisano24]

Did you even watch the first interview? Because it was not about LGBT struggles.

[@shantayx8393]

gogglespisano24 I noticed that but the rest were about gay struggles lmfao

[@robertnadeak15]

totally agree

[@upcom1ng116]

Yeah, Title was totally misleading. Content was purely about LGBT. Not that I am against but I felt cheated a bit.

[@nanamiharuka3269]

I love how Skillet is “supposed” to be for boys instead of just for teens bc I’m a girl who loved that band and that sound. Similarly with media aimed at “boys” has tons of female fans, action movies and shows etc. why can’t it be just for the genre and not a specific gender. I get demographics and things but still let’s make good things in that genre and not things aimed towards gender

[@emmybelland8671]

I no joked did a work out today do some skillet music lol

[@Peayou...]

Umm I am definitely not a fan or anything but there is nothing wrong with that though. Just like if a lady band wants to drive themselves towards girls. What's wrong with trying to empower young women? No one is forcing you not to listen or to listen lol🤣

[@visualpun650]

Marketing like shooting an arrow needs to have a goal or target. Otherwise it hits nothing.

[@ScribblebytesWorldwide]

Because of marketing companies and market segmentation. You're absolutely right, when I've looked at the metrics for certain popular entertainment titles, its almost always a 50/50 split in the gender of viewing audiences. At school we were taught about how important gender demos are. They're important for selling advertising, but should not be used for classifying the movie/programme. Skillet has a broad appeal, but they'd get more sponsorships from a male-centric company rather than a company selling feminine products. Sometimes this creates a feedback loop where a brand will start changing their narrative to fit into what advertisers want (basically all movies and music from the 80s/90s did this in an obvious way). The sad part is that it effects society. Boys who like Britney Spears are viewed as "less than manly" which is obviously a lie, but it changes their experience of life. Weird example, but like the host in the video said, it messes up your self image. All because of selling shampoo.

[@bmloveofficial]

Back when Flyleaf was first coming into the scene; they had their Justice & Mercy tour at a venue here in town and Skillet was their opener. I will never forget how rude the lead singer was towards me (a young boy who wore eyeliner and had the emo hair at the time) - He looked at me in passing with such hatred. That was when I vowed to not go based on the persona I see. For at least 2 or 3 years after that, I boycotted listening to their music because he made me feel like I was of no value at all as a person whereas Lacey made me feel loved and when I met her backstage; she was the sweetest and most humble person I have met in the Christian Rock scene.

[@melissaj1310]

This was very insightful. I’ve observed over the years how Christian artists just kind of disappear if they step out of the box they’re supposed to be in. It never sat right with me. We’ve done a really crappy job engaging in conversation with LGBT+ people. We need to do better. ❤️

[@carolinehaf21]

Jars of Clay I STILL listen to. I loved that their music wasn't specifically "christian", but about struggling with life, love, doubt... acknowledging those feelings instead of just the same kind of message "God is great, everything is fine". Questioning was always their strong point and thank goodness they kept doing it for the LGBTQ+. There's many of us that have listened to that type of music that miss it but want authentic messaging like Jars of Clay did... Grace you write it. I'll buy it.

[@meg31585]

I can relate to that! "Flood" was always my favorite Jars Of Clay songs ❤️

[@DrDoerk]

I don't understand why someone would listen to a Christian band that isn't Christian. it's an oxymoron

[@crackle6875]

Not necessarily. Where I grew up, the cds & cassettes in the local Christian music stores could usually be split into four types: instrumental (often classical music & instrumental versions of traditional hymns), contemporary worship (Hill Songs, Bethel Music, Robin Mark, Keith Green (later in his career) Avalon, Paul Wilbur, Jamie Grace, Skillet, Kirk Franklin, Mandisa, Tait, D-Boy, Michale W Smith, DC Talk etc.) traditional worship (traditional church gospel songs & hymns - depending on the store, this could also include things like Gregorian chants) & general/mixed (PureNRG, Petra, Super Chick, Eden’s Bridge, Britt Nicole, Five Iron Frenzy, Rhema Soul, Owl City, Reliant K etc.). ‘Modern Christian music’ was determined by 1. if the artist was vocal about being a Christian/having Christian themes in their music & 2. the songs lyrics are ‘clean’ (sometimes what makes it clean is not what’s being sung about but how it’s being sung about, ex. drugs can be talked about if it isn’t uplifting them but instead showing the pain & danger that comes from drug abuse).

[@janerickaminardo3915]

My spiritual leader once said to me: to be careful of what Christian music you're listening to cause not all Christian music have the holy/right message, something like that.

[@MAJAFUL]

Never thought that such songs have a dark side. As a Christian I feel sad about this thing. It also made me realize that I always thought I am unworthy but your song at the end touched me.

[@nevelyn3960]

If you want a more thorough understanding of that issue, I highly recommend reading the book of Romans start to finish. I've found it incredibly transformative.

[@allanm586]

You're unworthy of God's love, you don't even deserve it, this video clip is meant to mislead you.... As a Christian understand that Christ didn't come to unite the world, he came to separate Light from darkness 👍

[@markgunther2502]

That's why women aren't allowed to be in leadership positions. They don't know how to trust God and the Bible, they base their decisions on emotions and feelings, just like Eve in the Garden of Eden.

[@rafaelcarmany463]

@@markgunther2502 Wow! Powerful Insight. I'm sure that they will find your comment highly offensive should they see it, but the Bible constantly warns of this - and Here It Is on Full Display.

[@markgunther2502]

@@rafaelcarmany463 Thank you. It' painfully obvious. Whenever there's a "church" with a female "pastor", it is nearly always an extremely morally compromised liberal church that doesn't respect Biblical authority.

[@lawly18]

this is veryyyyy white....

[@trinity9792]

Ccm is very white trust me. My mom would mostly listen to ccm and it's mainly white with 1 black artist

[@lawly18]

Trinity oh I am very aware. I used to sing it.

[@wearenotpoetsx]

very white.

[@kamzamosweu2269]

It is white people music after all

[@KhumoMalope]

Yuuuuuuup.

[@allandalegibson1194]

I just wanted to share with you something I learned as a Christian and a fan of the band Queen for 43 years. Freddie Mercury was sent to a Christian boarding school at the age of 7. He wrote or sang more songs about or referred to Jesus, Christ or God the creator than any other theme. Songs like...Jesus, Mad the Swine, The Miracle, Is this the World We Created?, My Life has been saved, and others. Also I think the origin of one of the most famous lines in music history came from a gay teenager in a Christian school it is easy to understand where the line "Beelzebub has a devil put aside for me" came from. There are so many more examples, it's a"Rabbit Hole you may find worth going down.

[@oliviarobinson2872]

the whole “formula” thing is the reason i stopped listening to christian music for awhile. i didn’t start listening again until i was able to find songs that didn’t sound the e x a c t same& until i was able to find artists that weren’t all white. edit: some artists i really like are montell fish, cortes, cass, asha elia, jonathan ogden, steven malcolm, &ecclesia

[@TheTinaBelcher]

i never really realized there actually is a formula till this video but the main reason i never took to christian music was that it all sounded the same to me. i never tried to make it work for me though, just like the music the ideology never really stuck to me.

[@marielaveau5321]

That was apparent to me right away, and was the primary reason I came to dislike CCM so much. It all seems so contrived and stiff, and really cheesy. I just can't do it. Give me Mahalia Jackson EVERY time. Listen to her and watch her performances and you will understand the difference between those who perform according to some money driven "formula", and those who perform because the Holy Spirit is present within them. ✌️

[@withsisu2324]

I stopped listening to K-Love for that reason, all the songs are exactly the same!! I look for my own Christian music now, some different artists who don't go along with the crowd are Josh Garrels, NEEDTOBREATHE, Wolves at the Gate to name a few!

[@callmekrayy]

I was going to say that I've found music from artists who aren't White . They're music is usually more pure and authentic to me. I haven't found that kind of formula for some of them.

[@faithmarie3808]

YESSSS I also like jimmy needham and shane& shane just bc their biblical accuracy

[@isabellasims1346]

tbh majority of christianity is basically "we love and accept everyone!!!... as long as you're exactly like us, follow these extremely difficult to uphold guidelines, and show no signs of being an imperfect unique human being" I went to a christian high school and honestly there's such a culture of throwing around blanket terms like "god loves everyone! he forgives your sins!" but then they try to force you into being a particular type of person and harass you if you act on anything that differs from their beliefs, fitting into the community comes before your own happiness and (im speaking from my experience) its so toxic

[@weneedmoreconsideratepeopl4006]

Industry* or cult* Christianity is to be like Christ. Mahatma Gandhi himself said that, "I like your Christ, but I do not like you 'Christians' because you are not like your Christ." This isn't real Christianity because Jesus wouldn't do this.

[@sheluvssmokedupeyes1]

Isabella Sims Not all Christians are like that you followed up on some really super religious Christians to be like Christ like your questions because you’re not like in Christ this isn’t real

[@nanisex1427]

I really look up to the example of Todd White, his way of showing the Lord's love and living to show Christ in all areas of his life. I knew how a Christian must act but I didn't understand how to show that. But I thank God that we can have people to showcase the true Christ to others so they can also follow.

[@SpiritShinobi]

We do love and accept everyone. You just cannot be a Christian without works of faith. If you don't like our "STRICTNESS" maybe you should try Islam. See how less strict they are. I heard they still chop off heads for blasphemy. Also you clearly do not understand religions if you think religions should break their ways and adjust to people. That's not how religion works. You don't make a requirement to get in the special forces then lower it cause the people who cannot make it are crying about it. This comment is super low IQ. The Lord is the one who made the teachings. We follow him, not what man or woman says to.

[@sinyiforestang2286]

Spirit Shinobi lol he wasn’t talking about the strictness but how what they do does not line up with what the gods teachings are. In this case they are saying that Christian’s he have met tells people that god loves everyone but then proceed to pressure others into acting and thinking like themselves.

[@briea.7870]

I would have loved to see Jennifer Knapp included in this. She was a christian singer in the 1990's, listened to her all the time. She remains a favorite of mine. A decade or so ago, she came out as gay and I've always been interested in her story.

[@Anonymous18817]

Satan means TRUTH in ancient Vedic Sanskrit, mankind's original language. Satanisgod.org

[@tiffprendergast]

Nnbhh Knbhj what

[@prittyugly86]

LOL I had a babysitter trying to turn her son onto christian girls and she was saying jennifer Knapp was pretty. Hearing she's not straight.... I got to give her voice a listen now it's very pretty 💗💙💗💙

[@aretwothetoo7758]

@@Anonymous18817 no

[@dolliquette]

oh i thought it meant 'the challenger', like of the norms Hes the one who went against the "norm", doesn't necessarily mean anything bad I think it's 'Lucifer' that means truth or smth I also want to remind everyone that different religions believe in Lucifer and Satan but they are not the same as the Christian one

[@pcleitem]

We cannot pick and choose which sins we will obstained from and which we will indulge, and expect God's approval. All sin in our lives breaks His heart because He loves us and died for us. Leave your life of sin, abstain, seek His strength. The Holy Spirit is able where we are not.

[@angharad.9743]

As someone who is both a lesbian and a recent convert to Christianity I have a very mixed relationship with Christian music. I love Christian music and I think that God is really present in so much of that music. An area i struggle with is the fact that I disagree with many of the artists e.g. hillsong but still enjoy/ find God in some of their songs

[@MicahRion]

Mmm thanks for sharing your experience!

[@evangelineplaysbass]

I really recommend vintage hillsong, especially with Darlene at the front. So much more about Jesus than everything else!

[@seedmix754]

I feel the exact same. Im also a lesbian christian and trying to find someone that i can relate to in the Christian music world is just so hard. The picture perfect white woman with minimalist clothes, conventionally pretty looks, and a almost perfect life are really the only people who make it big and it sucks :/

[@pollyrg97]

With all the hate that gets directed at LGBT+ people by too many members of the Christian community, I'm blown away by your courage and faith. Welcome, and be blessed.

[@abbyshipman9520]

I really agree with that. It is hard to find "real" people in this community. It seems that everything is fake and no one can discuss real topics.

[@KristiLEvans1]

Christian music should be about Jesus Christ. Good grief.

[@jenniferlorence185]

EXACTLY. They forgot that PART.

[@robertpaige7255]

Facts

[@katiecook6332]

Exactly. These kind of "exposure" videos leaves out so many facts.

[@el-pamidala9882]

Pretty narrow spectrum singing about a fictional character.

[@LizaLavolta]

-Charlie Brown / Christian edition

[@elmalombard7425]

I think there are so many people sitting in Church struggling with sin, and they don't speak about it because they know they will be rejected. Healthy and honest conversations are supposed to happen. Love should triumph. But if we say it is all about God we must look to His Word. What does He say? What does He want? If we say it is all about Him we need to be honest about the sin that we struggle with, even when it is something so deep inside of us, like a thorn in the flesh, that we feel we cannot part with. Even if that sin is something precious to us, and we don't want to deal with it and let go of it. I want a Church where I can be honest about the sin that is eating me up from the inside, where people will love me enough to not reject me but help me fight against that sin. We all need that, whether that sin is sexual, or about our identity, idolatry, or whatever else. I know I am fallen by nature. That is why Jesus came. That is why I need Him. I don't go to Church at the moment. I am tired of trying to "find my place in the Body." I was sexually abused for 7 years as a child, struggled with my identity because of that, marrried, had a child and got divorced after 7 years. I know what it's like to struggle and to be tormented with everything that comes with a life like that,but I truly want to know Jesus, the real Jesus. I want to serve Him. But life is real and ugly. The wages of sin is death and will always be death. If only we can agree on that as a Church and take hands to fight that instead of each other. Much love....

[@hannah2859]

Much love Elma! Life is messy and youre not alone ❤

[@canovwrms2684]

You sound pretty Awesome to me ...

[@mikestarkly9226]

Amen. I hope you keep spreading the word as well as find strength and peace to do well in your trials. I feel the message of Christianity has been just as muddled as other religions if not more so. We are all sinners, not "worms". Loved by our heavenly father but imperfect all the same and will be for all our days. We must fight temptation and do our best in Jesus' name.

[@sadraolaedo4733]

Go this book "How the Holyspirit works-Jimmy swaggart ". It will help you alot dear, having read what you have being through

[@VioletRaya]

Right here with you ♥️

[@dhunter1423]

GREAT INTERVIEW! IT SADDENS ME THAT THE "SO-CALLED" CHRISTIAN MUSIC COMMUNITY HAS CHOSEN TO TURN THEIR BACKS ON ANYBODY, MUCH LESS A PERSON WHO IS GAY. ONE OF MY BEST FRIENDS WAS GAY: I RESPECTFULLY SAY EVERYBODY DESERVES GOD'S LOVE, NO MATTER WHAT! 😇 INCLUSION NOT EXCLUSION: I FEEL THAT MOST WOULD NOT RECOGNIZE GOD IF HE SHOWED UP AT WORSHIP SERVICES! God did not leave ANY Judging to me or anybody else: Simply put, "LOVE ONE ANOTHER," NO IFS ANDS OR BUT. With Kind Regards, deb in SC💛

[@iamdajanae2093]

It’s really crazy because I was watching a list of the “top 40 gospel songs” for June just last night, and I couldn’t tell the songs apart 😭 they really are cookie cutter. And that’s unfortunate

[@dongysakura418]

I think that's how it is for all genres tho: pop, jazz, swing, metal, K-pop. You listen to something enough, it all sounds that same. That's why you add diversity

[@kamzamosweu2269]

This is because they usually use same producer or composer who are in fashion in the moment. Just look at Black music now, it is dead everyone is a rapper even good vocalist. They follow trends, that is what ruining music nowadays and in history there is also something like that.

[@kristinnhouse]

Ugh when she said “I miss worship music” I almost cried. I think that all the time. My heart is music. When I led worship I felt like I was who God made me to be. I’m proud of every Christian who is trying to make change.

[@SuperGirl90100]

You've made such a beautiful, important point here: how is music geared towards picture-perfect ideas of people supposed to touch real people's lives? Who gets left out? I had to sit with that one for a minute.

[@jollyrodgers7272]

The fact is; we don't worship the musician or the song or the crowd of worshippers - don't lose sight of Who the Praise and Worship is for!

[@AlexShiro]

Really? Should we not aspire to ideals anywhere, coz it isn't realistic? Everyone gets left out of something. I can't be a virgin now I'm married. I can't be a raver if I only like rock music. I can't be a Muslim coz I don't believe in their god. I can't be a monk because I'm female. I can't be a catholic because I don't believe in worshipping saints ordoing hail marys flicking rosary beads. Why create extra suffering by irrationally expecting everyone to like us, and all in the world to agree with us?