The Day Has Finally Come: Junior Devs Only Know ChatGPT!

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@DevLeader 2 ай бұрын

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@Scotthutchinsonking 2 ай бұрын

This is 100% true , I was on a contract with a giant car company . I had to teach them breakpoints , watchers , uncaught exceptions , OO standards it was very surprising

@DevLeader 2 ай бұрын

AI tools are helping drive a TON of progress but there's an interesting side effect that some of the basics are being overlooked. Pretty fascinating!

@vast634 2 ай бұрын

LLMs can help good programmers a lot in efficiency. But they can completely sidetrack novice programmers.

@DevLeader 2 ай бұрын

@@vast634 I feel like I agree with this -- but I'm curious to see if/when and how a learning paradigm shift takes place 🙂

@favhwdg 2 ай бұрын

Getting a job right now is a nightmare, I can code on my own, but most of my friends who landed some internship or job they made a bunch of "projects" which are honestly pathetic, and I know for a fact that they didn't make them themselves, being honest costs.

@DevLeader 2 ай бұрын

@@favhwdg no denying things are tough right now -- but things have never been "easy" in this field either. It's a competitive space. Let's dig into your point further though: your friends have "pathetic" projects and they didn't make them on their own and you believe that helped them land jobs? What were they building? Who were they building with? How much was their contribution? (It's actually a much more realistic representation to be building software with others vs building solo - so maybe they're able to demonstrate some of these things effectively in their resume and/or interviews)

@favhwdg 2 ай бұрын

@DevLeader solo calculator cli .exe's and i am not even joking, the best one of those made a student grading system, also an exe no sql or anything...

@RickyWiild 2 ай бұрын

Know this feeling dude.

@Zuranthus 2 ай бұрын

AI is basically the new calculator, as long as you know the concepts who cares

@DevLeader 2 ай бұрын

@@Zuranthus this seems like the direction things are headed in -- so it's very interesting to see the paradigm shift right before our eyes

@Zuranthus 2 ай бұрын

@@DevLeader absolutely. people are so outraged and scared of AI, i on the other hand am excited, and i say that as someone who is learning to code/art without AI because i do want to know the concepts but i don't see anything wrong with a guy that just wants to spin something up real quick like a planner app or a writer who wants character art for his novel but doesn't have money to spare...legalities aside

@EviaAir19 2 ай бұрын

Indeed, some believe they can write code in their own way without thinking it through. Despite being taught from us, they may disregard the guidance, which can be quite frustrating. Unfortunately, there are those who do not commit to learning.

@DevLeader 2 ай бұрын

Yup -- but we need to keep learning! I have no problems with LLMs but I want people to challenge the output, understand it, etc... We need to keep the learning machine going!

@EviaAir19 2 ай бұрын

@@DevLeader I completely agree with you! We aim to impart this knowledge to them. It's crucial for them to comprehend the content written by these tools. Regrettably, some individuals disregard our guidance and persist in copying and pasting, continuously asking questions on ChatGPT to progress to the next step of their task is what disheartens me. It's the fact that some individuals still won't listen, regardless of the effort made.

@joevaghn457 2 ай бұрын

Well, learning takes more effort than having AI do the effort for you. I wonder if “efficiency” is going too far to the point whether it’s not worth learning anymore when you can just pump out “productivity” using AI. I hope I’m conveying my thoughts well, cuz idk how to word it other than… “Efficiency for Productivity” > “Accuracy through Sufficiency” Because making programs _that work_ is more expensive than _making programs work_ if you know what I mean At least where I work (Retail in Wally World), it’s that way. Idk how tech corpos work but I feel like they are the same Edit: Fixed typos

@DevLeader 2 ай бұрын

@joevaghn457 yeah -- it's uncomfortable for me but it'll be interesting to see if the next wave of software developers can truly lean into AI and be effective to the point where the really didn't need to learn the way many of us did 🤷‍♂️

@pratikthorat3480 2 ай бұрын

Amazing Video. I came here from the linkedin post and I had no idea I was in for some wisdom! Absolutely nailed it Nick!

@DevLeader 2 ай бұрын

@@pratikthorat3480 very glad that you enjoyed it 😁 thanks for checking it out!

@sm5574 2 ай бұрын

2:51 This is the bane of learning software these days. There are _so_ many tutorials, _tons_ of answers on Stack Exchange, but very few of them teach coding from scratch.

@SimGunther 2 ай бұрын

No wonder companies have that 5 year experience minimum for entry level jobs! Brain drain is officially here for the noobs!

@DevLeader 2 ай бұрын

@@SimGunther I'm not sure that's totally the case -- there are people successfully building things with a heavy reliance on them. That's not how I learned (I assume probably not how you learned), but I'm curious if this will just... Look different. On the surface it makes me feel like "oh hell no", but I'm trying to keep an open mind and see how things shift.

@anthonyapm 2 ай бұрын

I'm more concerned by the experienced programmers that trust llms completely.

@aev6075 2 ай бұрын

Before AI the title would say search engine. Before search engine the title would say "Book". Before book the title would say "Reasoning". Before reasning the title would say....... .... AI is just a tool.

@DevLeader 2 ай бұрын

@@aev6075 I agree -- it's very interesting to watch the hesitancy though!

@mamneo2 2 ай бұрын

Incroyable.

@LukeAvedon 2 ай бұрын

Arnold tried to warn us.

@DevLeader 2 ай бұрын

@@LukeAvedon he did, it's true.

@matten_zero 2 ай бұрын

Leet Code has ruined hiring

@radektheplayer Ай бұрын

Will LLMs finally reach their development limits or is there really no future for junior developers?

@matten_zero 2 ай бұрын

A lot of engineers don't know machine code or anything below the compiler.

@DevLeader 2 ай бұрын

I mean, I certainly don't. Absolutely would not be a good use of my time to focus on that either 😁

@Anonymous-dk5qu 2 ай бұрын

That's like saying "a lot of drivers don't know engines or anything under the hood". But do you NEED to know those things to just drive? Sure, it's cool and can be practical. But you REALLLLLYYYYY expect Sally from HR to be a full blown mechanic too?

@sbditto85 2 ай бұрын

Use whatever tools, but the code isn’t don’t just because “it works”. You can’t leave a mess for the next dev (or yourself later on) which mean you have to understand what the code is doing and the trade offs etc. if the jr is just asking ChatGPT to output code and then shipping it then that is wrong. It’s on the use of the tool to make sure it’s being used correctly and the end result is correct.

@DevLeader 2 ай бұрын

@@sbditto85 yeah I don't think we can even infer that's happening from this post to be honest. Maybe they are doing that, maybe they aren't.

@lucasrocha103 2 ай бұрын

why a company is wasting money in a guy that all he does is prompts? That guy is using the IA to think for him.

@DevLeader 2 ай бұрын

@@lucasrocha103 /remind me of this in 5 years 😉 Will be interesting to see how things change.

@Anonymous-dk5qu 2 ай бұрын

That company should use AI to build their prompts instead of hiring a prompt engineer!

@radektheplayer Ай бұрын

@@DevLeader Will LLMs finally reach their development limits or is there really no future for junior developers?

@matten_zero 2 ай бұрын

But I can't a job. Who hired that dev? FML

@NobleAbsinthe 2 ай бұрын

Wait they don't know how to make a struct or function??? That's like super basic. A struct is a pseduo object that holds a bunch of variables. Like a car stuct, that holds name, yearmade, price etc.... A function is a chunkof resuable code you can call that call by invoking the function name. It can return a value, set a new value for an object, or print something to your console. Like that's some serious skill issue. Because that's 201 stuff.

@DevLeader 2 ай бұрын

@@NobleAbsinthe I don't think it's clear that they don't know what it is, but it appears that they don't know the syntax -- I think that's all we can tell from what the author wrote. I know what both of these things are, but if you asked me to go write it in rust or C++ or something else I don't program in, I would absolutely need to go consult a web search. ... Or ask an LLM.

@NobleAbsinthe 2 ай бұрын

@ I should have watched more before jumping the gun. Yeah I think it might just be a syntax thing. And I never thought about it. When changing languages there's that shifting of gears feeling when having to do the same kinda work.

@LukeAvedon 2 ай бұрын

I also found this post fascinating.

@DevLeader 2 ай бұрын

It's going to be very very weird (good and bad!) in the upcoming years to see how things evolve!

@Joshua.Developer 2 ай бұрын

This is why you only hire people that have built working stuff. I hate JS I stick with ELM and Laravel and PACT. But really part of the job is being able to read docs and pick up new things. But that is a skill in and of itself. Coding from scratch takes YEARS you have to know the entire syntax.

@DevLeader 2 ай бұрын

I think in this context they *did* hire someone that has built working software. Sounds like how they built it was the part that was different than expected 🙂 There's not enough context from the original poster to know if this new hire was actually under performing or if they were just navigating a language that was new to them (and using tools the more senior engineer wasn't fond of).

@nicknicolosi1 2 ай бұрын

I am more amused by the fact that people that can’t code entirely and only rely on AI, make it to a team entirely 🤯 Very good information, thanks Nick.

@DevLeader 2 ай бұрын

It's interesting, right? They're able to demonstrate their abilities successfully in the interview at least! So there's SOME level of understanding outside of the LLMs

@nicknicolosi1 2 ай бұрын

@@DevLeader As long there is a level of understanding. The rest can be thought via vetting from more senior developers. But totally relying of these tools is a red flag in my opinion. I have been tinkering with GEMENI for code review, and performance reviews, and it is interesting to see the grate point it makes to spark critical thinking, and kind of help you thinking to see area for improvement. But I never rely on it for generating code for me to build on top of it. I think starting from a blank document is the fun part for coding anyway.

@LukeAvedon 2 ай бұрын

I like yaml

@DevLeader 2 ай бұрын

@@LukeAvedon we don't tolerate lies on this channel! 😂

@LukeAvedon 2 ай бұрын

@@DevLeader LOL!

@sealsharp Ай бұрын

A microsoft employee explaining they use internal copilot to not put their data in other companies datasets is kinda funny considering that microsoft builds AI solutions that just take other peoples data.

@DevLeader Ай бұрын

Ah yes, that's right. Big bad Microsoft out to ruin the world so we shouldn't talk about general best practices with putting internal data on other sites/systems (which, by the way, is applicable without LLMs in the picture).

@sealsharp Ай бұрын

@@DevLeader Hey, i did not say any of that. Your advice to not put company data somewhere on the internet is totally valid and there are probably some people who do not know that all chatGPT interaction is used for further training. And i know this may sound mocking but i'm really curious, do MS employes use Windows Recall?