The Deadly Math of Cyberpunk 2020 Combat

This video covers the Lethality and Complication (or crunch) in Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0. the tabletop role playing game.

[@JohnSmith-ox3gy]

In Cyberpunk you will not die of three death saves, no. The end may come by car accident, hitting your head into pavement, unwittingly wearing gang clothes, a stray bullet or overdosing on drugs but when it does you can rest assured your character lived an interesting life.

[@telejim2238]

What you've patiently explained in this video is exactly what was giving me anxiety about finally "pulling the trigger" and starting off my first Cyberpunk 2020 campaign! Thank you very much, I shall name a crack addled mad NPC JonJon in your honour!

[@JonJonTheWise]

I couldn't ask for anything better than that. Thanks!

[@paulll47]

I've recently got into cyberpunk red and I thought that the combat was lethal, when I checked the rules for 2020 I finally understood why the old school players said that they nerfed the crap out of it, red is a walk in the park compared to 2020.

[@SusCalvin]

A lot of 90's games seems to fall into the "modifier hell" where a great many possibilities with, to be fair, very minute actual importance, are to be covered. That along with the equipment list created the most bother for the players. The crew did not grasp what was so different between the eight different pistols available to them, besides minute differences in magazine capacity, a +1 to hit, a few hundred eurobucks less pricey etc.

[@DeusAmentiam]

13:41 - "You use d10" and shows singularity in his hands

[@JonJonTheWise]

lolllll the green screen has been my enemy for many years. That day it transcended and took over my dice.

[@mistergoodfellow5847]

Ran one of our first non-test sessions today, and we encountered this EXACT problem with auto fire and other stuff. Thanks for posting this!

[@SusCalvin]

In our last combat, the players discovered targeting body parts and shooting people in the head. Armour is actually pretty effective in Cyberpunk 2020. Even an armourjacket (a kevlar and soft armour jacket, the heaviest you can take to McD without getting stares) makes a big difference. You can take a pistol shot, and probably won't die from a heavy SMG or rifle. If the bullet hits the part you got armoured, that is. It's not a big negative modifier to aim for someone's unarmoured leg or head. If you blow someone's leg off, they start bleeding out and going into shock. And any hit to the head means double damage. Having a modern firearm going off at your head hurts.

[@Menchi42]

I'm planning my first Cyberpunk game as a referee (and first game ever) and this calmed down so much anxiety for me. Thank you.

[@JonJonTheWise]

I'm so happy to hear that. I still get anxiety too but I've learned to diminish it as much as possible.

[@Menchi42]

@@JonJonTheWise this is going to be my first time as a Referee, but I have my DnD DM helping me with tips on maps and such.

[@JonJonTheWise]

@@Menchi42 thats great! good luck on your game

[@jansvoboda4293]

I actually love the premise of lethal combat in game that offers other solutions to problems. I have been watching a few sessions of RED and I way preferred those where not just acting as bloodthirsty psychos, bud instead thought about using all their options at hand to achieve objectives and limit risks.

[@josefranciscouzcateguiflor5181]

I'm starting as a GM and referee for the first time and this channel is the only source I can find for CP2020 thank you sir for all the info and the explanations. I've read the manual I don't know how many times and honestly is a very tough read because is poorly edited honestly but these videos have been a source of light. Thanks again sir!

[@silasstryder]

I don't see anything wrong with your 'kid gloves' method for teaching new players. It's really no different game-mechanics-wise than an action game giving you pretty much all the toys and combos for the first level then ripping everything, but the basic stuff away from you so you know what you can build up to (and beyond) and give a good sense of scale for low tier, mid tier, and high tier equipment and skills.

[@spudsbuchlaw]

So...Metroid Prime

[@user-kl6ej1kr3z]

12:30 Now hold on Jon, if someone has dermal plating or skin weave, it's only unnoticeable if you have the lowest grade, and completely unable to hide it at max level.

[@Comicsluvr]

CP2020 is one of those games where you might want to include a sample combat in the Session Zero to drive home the lethality. However, I must say that toward the end, when I was hoping for ways to simplify the 'combat math' it all came down to 'use Roll 20.' I hate to say it but some people still play face to face around a table and having electronics handy isn't always an option.

[@JonJonTheWise]

I also mentioned rolling multiple dice at once.

[@joshholden9360]

Late to the party, but I had the same problem. What I did with combat is, for weapons 4d6 and below, throw 1d10, 1d20, and 1d6. 1d10 is to-hit, 1d20 is damage, 1d6 is hit location. If the weapon is 5d6 or above, add your d10 roll to the d20 roll for damage. I find it moves things along better and gives more reason to use concealable weapons. Anyone that's going for realism should know that, in violent gun deaths, it's MOSTLY small pistol caliber rounds. A well placed .22LR is going to kill a person a lot better than even a .50BMG that just parts their hair. It takes a little more work narratively, but I personally find that pretty easy. You roll 17 to hit, the damage is 4, the location is 3, left arm. "You hit the booster in the left arm, and you see fibers from his light armor jack fly out, mixed into a cloud of dust above where your round landed a glancing blow. He pauses, looking at first shocked, and then angry as he shakes his bruised left arm out and raises his right hand toward you, full of well-worn iron, ready to spit lead and fire."

[@EldradWolfsbane]

I am a nearly freeform gamer, CP2020 was so easy to just run on the fly. I never found the rules that complex.

[@phillee427]

Yes it's not real complicated. And flying by the seat of one's pants is pretty easy in this game.

[@ItsIntelligentDesign]

Hey JonJon, I’ve heard you mention in several of your videos that it’s dangerous to stand out in Cyberpunk because it makes you a target, and that concealability is important. That makes sense, but how as a GM/referee do you square that with the big pillars of Style over Substance, Attitude is Everything, and Live on the Edge? It feels like the game is inviting players to be big and bold, and to try and stand out in a crowd

[@JonJonTheWise]

Yup that's the idea. If you stand out it's dangerous but you're a god. Some players like playing the elusive, smart problem solver more. it's all on your style.

[@Chris-tx9ut]

JonJon, It took me a bit to get to the video but as always this is a fantastic series and I am trying to get it out there through my other discord channels. Anxious to see your next video. I will start checking out the Real Gameplay videos next. Great shout out to JGray.

[@JonJonTheWise]

wow man, thank you so much for your kind words. I plan to make more videos. You guys really motivate me. thank you so much for spreading the word too, there's nothing more that I can ask for. you're the best

[@Chris-tx9ut]

@@JonJonTheWise Congratulations on the new baby, by the way. Another member of the cybersquad. Great use of roll20, it is definitely a great way to speed up the game. I am not sure where you are headed next but, I think a great video is to explain cybernetics, how they modify and hinder as well as Humanity cost in relation to EMP. It is definitely one of the main reasons people play. Again, Great stuff. It is all relevant. I bet even JGray would let you use a few of his dailies if you asked him.

[@JonJonTheWise]

@@Chris-tx9ut thank you so much man! I'll add that to the list of potential videos. thats a great idea thanks for the support dude

[@memesupreme2400]

I just spent the past two days studying this damn rule book. This was very useful. Thx man

[@ipatates]

Thank you for this wonderful video, I love Cyberpunk universe and your video was perfect information for my first game.

[@josemanuelcaballero1162]

Laptop, rehearse math, and excel macros:) ...or bring your game to roll20 , and let the char sheet do the math. That I am learning, as a new Gm to this game and eteran player of it in the 90s...never thought how much quick math our GM needed to do.

[@felipesouzajesus4967]

Your videos are helpfull and awesome .despite the sci fi setting, cyberpunk envolve real people in dangerous situations of real life

[@JonJonTheWise]

Thank you for the support and kind words 🙂🙏

[@paulleach3612]

13yo me discovering Cyberpunk 2020, but having to be the referee; "Well, guess I'm learning maths..."

[@JonJonTheWise]

Don’t stress choom. Just do what we all did, took out any rules we didn’t like and injected rules we did like. 👍

[@danielmcgillis270]

CP 2020 question: Am I on drugs. Answer: Yes! Question what drugs? Answer: ALL OF THEM! EVERYONE!

[@TheJMKlemann]

Step 1: Don't simplify it, its meant to be dangerous and deadly, the Ref has final say on what modifiers apply.

[@josemanuelcaballero1162]

Hi again Jon, been using some time with roll20. Have made macros that whisper "to GM" rolls for common skill for the character sheet you use. Have also contacted the author of the char sheet to see if its possible to write a macro that calls the "ROLL" button for any attack. That would be a huge time saver for GMs, since you would just select target, hit macro button for "Primary Attack" or "Secondary Attack" and move on .If you want I can do a video and re-link in your channel so it reaches more people (I do not have a YT channel).

[@JonJonTheWise]

Thanks for the offer dude, but I'm good. I have figured out a good system for myself and my players. I'm glad you're picking up the Roll20 program

[@UltimateMustacheX]

As someone who's looking into Cyberpunk for the first time, my issue isn't the idea that a gruesome death is very likely. It's that I could end up spending more time fleshing out the character than actually getting to play them. I could take 2+ hours filling out a sheet with skills and life path info, just to die in the first hour of play. For someone who prefers the RP side, it can seem like a waste to throw out a character concept before getting to actually RP it. But I'm still going to try it and see how it goes. Hopefully the character I come up with can survive long enough for me to properly experience his capabilities in this setting. My character wasn't going to be one for combat anyway (more of a stealth, intel gatherer), so he'll rely on avoiding or escaping combat when possible, and probably have some level of armor to avoid an automatic kill in one round.

[@ARatherDapperTapir]

I spent weeks considering my first character, then open roll got headshot first shot. Not even a called shot. Main thought was "oh hell yes". Unfortunately the group disagreed

[@GreyTide]

"If you give your players a Skinwevae, they are immune to combat." ACPA, Martial Arts, Heavy Weapons, Remote Turrets / APEX Defense systems, Electro thermal enhancement Weapons, Black ICE, etc. Skinweaves are kid gloves level Defenses.

[@Goldjesus69]

I HAVE A QUESTION! Im using roll20 and im setting up a campaign for me to ref (first time ref but have played before) and my friends to play. im planning on running the adventure the Osiris chip, with a party that is essentially a band, with a rockerboy, fixer, techie, and solo. the issue that im running into is that ive never used roll20 so idk if im putting the weapon damages in correctly. like, for damage do I literally put 2d6?

[@JonJonTheWise]

I have a Roll20 Cyberpunk tutorial in one of my videos . That might answer your question

[@josemanuelcaballero1162]

Thanks for the video Jon, very much appreciated! I am researching on how to whisper any roll from char sheet , both for GMs or players asked by the GM to whisper it (this probably requires changing the char sheet, hope I succeed before my first roll20 game!

[@JonJonTheWise]

You're on your way to becoming a Roll20 master. It's a lot of fun!

[@josemanuelcaballero1162]

@@JonJonTheWise haha, I suck at drawing, my char sheets get stained with coffee , plus getting old my sight is not that good to peer through hundreds of tables in PDFs hidden somewhere in my laptop. But roll20 man, that's quite a tool! I have been writing a campaign for some months , running it with two groups. And learning quite a lot from your videos

[@JonJonTheWise]

@@josemanuelcaballero1162 I'm the same, getting old too. Roll20 is the gift that keeps on giving and it inspires me to do better planning. my players have been enjoying my ideas!

[@josemanuelcaballero1162]

@@JonJonTheWise Glad to see you rocking:) You do some amazing stuff. Ah, and if some time you need some players just let me know...I guess we are in different time zones though (I am in Europe)

[@JonJonTheWise]

@@josemanuelcaballero1162 thank you so much man. I really appreciate the kind words, and support.

[@travis6778]

Well made video, but I should say that Cyberpunk 2020's combat is not *that* complicated. There's no modifier for if the sun is in your eyes unless if your Referee has some weird obsession with complete realism. Most definitely that Friday Night Firefight has more crunch then most RPGs (Or at least most modern RPGs). But do not be discouraged by this video for how complicated it is. But it's most definitely realistic and lethal. But still fun as hell.

[@leonardpimentel5865]

If you guys find cyberpunk 2020 complicated, or overly burdened with modifiers, allow me to introduce you to GURPS. Or Heavy Gear / Jovian Chronicles. Or Shadowrun (any edition - they are all a mess). We played a lot of 2020 back in the day and it’s really not all that bad. You don’t have to agonize over every single modifier in every single combat. And by the way, the original cyberpunk, the one that was supposed to occur in 2013, was even deadlier!

[@ChiefSpartan1]

Hi Jon Jon, how would you recommend using Roll 20 with only one computer at the table? I thought about making a character sheet that has all the weapons that the players have, to use as a calculator.

[@JonJonTheWise]

Ya that can work. You could roll the dice for the players, or give every player a wireless mouse so they can roll their dice, or everybody brings a laptop. I personally wouldn't use roll 20 for anything other than projecting a map onto the table. I enjoy being there in person and rolling real dice if I'm able to

[@noodles2459]

It honestly sounds a lot liek how advanced battletech a fairly complex but interesting wargame

[@cool_dude_like_really]

You talked about "sleepers" in Cyberpunk - dangerous people that don't look dangerous... Well I say you're wrong! In Night city how dangerous you look is directly connected to how respected you are. There are different kinds of dangerous though - everyone knows not to mess with corps even though they always don't look like trouble, for example. Name calling is effective tactic to avoid combat, and FACEDOWNS - don't forget about em, facedown scenes can be very badass

[@Sporkmurder]

Thanks for the great video! Would it be possible for you to link to the Roll20 character sheet? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

[@JonJonTheWise]

Thanks for watching! There are multiple sheets available in the "game settings" tab in Roll20. That's where you pick your character sheet

[@noodles2459]

This sounds a lot like a tacticla wargame tbh but with more detail

[@phillee427]

I guess I'll add my 2 cents. I love the realism in the combat system I love the lethality. It forces players to actually think before rushing headlong into a fight. I don't find it to be overly complicated skill stat and a D10 vs the target number. Are there modifiers of course however, the modifiers really range from 1 to 10. I hope that modern gamers don't find it difficult to add or subtract a value between 1 and 10. I'm a very role play heavy GM so therefore if I have to slow down the game every once in a while for a combat that's OK. The opposite side of that coin is if someone is a gun lover they should have the combat rules down cold where it doesn't slow down the process just my opinion. As lamented in the original source book if they can't handle cyberpunk let him go back to the game with happy elves and singing birds lol. But seriously, now that red is out and has gained in popularity I hope that cyberpunk 2020 still remains something that people want to play.

[@hereticalpaintjobs]

Thanks to edgerunners I'm running a 2020 campaign set in 2077 which means a lot of rule tweaking actually came up with a rule for quick hacks during combat, I'm excited to do this game, played red and it was fun but idk something was missing, when I saw 2020 it had pretty much everything I was wanting out of red

[@phillee427]

@@hereticalpaintjobs I wish could double like your statement. I'm not gonna tell people not to like cyberpunk red but just like yourself there's something missing in it for me. Best of luck.

[@hereticalpaintjobs]

@@phillee427 preem choom, if you wanna know the rule I cam up with for quick hacks if youre rolling against an enemy NPC itll be INT+Hack+1d10 thats for a breech protocol and based on how high you get to the relevant difficulty table determines 1: how long it takes to breech, and 2: what kind of breech you did if you want to do anyother quick hacks itll be the same roll but itll be a roll off against the NPC BUT youll have to had purchased the daemon beforehand, they will be multiuse i.e. you can keep using it at varying cool down levels Of course that means the player will have to buy the daemons, legit went through so many rules for this after but even my netrunner played was overjoyed at it,

[@cyberDan404]

Great explanation. Do you know if there is a CP RPG community joint. so one can do a LFG as aRoll20 player?

[@JonJonTheWise]

Yes check out one of my latest videos, in the description is a discord link. Other than that, R.talsorian has an official discord too, you can find it on their website (I think)

[@goldenexperience1123]

I'm very interested in the roll20 character sheets that you demonstrated at 15:24. I'm personally having a hard time finding it. Would you be able to provide a link?

[@JonJonTheWise]

The roll20 sheets as far as I know are not available for download in PDF form. But when you make a new campaign in roll20, you can choose a sheet. There are two for cyberpunk red now.

[@goldenexperience1123]

JonJon TheWise Thank you very much! Very appreciated.

[@F2t0ny]

I love this content!

[@poppaslapnuts]

I think you’re overstating just how complicated the combat is especially when “easier” games like DnD get bogged down in multiple actions per turn. What sets this combat system apart and makes it go quick in my games is the fact each player gets 1 action per turn.

[@BR4IN1N4J4R]

Am I weird that should I ever play Cyberpunk, my first character concept is less Combat focused and much more the "Party Mouthpiece?"

[@JonJonTheWise]

No it's not weird at all. There are multiple roles that encourage that. Media, rockerboy, corporate, etc... These are not combat specific roles .

[@BR4IN1N4J4R]

The idea was the guy who will grovel for his life before using a gun, but above dying, something of a diplomat whose first phrase when guns come out is, "let's talk like rational adults and negotiate"

[@lucianmaximus4741]

RAPTURE444:360=1.23*MONAD

[@slash4216]

I've been watching a lot of your vids. I bought 2020 recently wanting to play with family and referee. I created a character and used pen. With amounts of variables, would you suggest using pencil so I can change stats if needed? Thanks.

[@JonJonTheWise]

Thanks for the support and that's awesome! I hope you're having fun . Yes I suggest pencil to erase if needed. But using digital tools are much better in my opinion. There are pdf character sheets and google documents. You're better off trying that but paper and pencil are never going to be out of style

[@slash4216]

@@JonJonTheWise Digital sheets never crossed my mind. 🤔🤔 I might give those a try.

[@timbuktu8069]

I never cared for the armor rules in this game. There is no downside for wearing armor aside from a few points of loss of REF. And armor is cheap a full suit of armor costs 600eb. About two weeks pay. With that, you are indestructible to anything but heavy weapons. So why wouldn't EVERYBODY walk around looking like stormtroopers?

[@Moondog66602]

The only other game I feel is similar is twilight 2000

[@jarrodhong-mitchell7014]

does anyone have the background image from 3:18-15:20? I love the aesthetic

[@JonJonTheWise]

The artist is Josan Gonzalez. You should be able to find their art with a Google search. Let me know if you have trouble finding it

[@AOTLTng]

Hi there Jon! I have watched your video and greatly enjoy it. but why not instead of shredding the character sheet, just play the same new game with the same character sheet and allow your new players to have the special ability to restart time? Like loading a checkpoint from a video game. let them learn from their mistakes? It sounds like a hassle and waste of paper to restart all over again.

[@JonJonTheWise]

Hey thanks for the support! You can do that if you want but in my opinion, it ruins the game if there aren't any consequences. Your players have to be smart or they'll lose their character that they've invested time into. Also I enjoy character creation and don't find it a hassle at all. It's a chance to try something new . Tabletop RPGs have freedoms that video games don't give you. I stay away from video game mechanics as much as I can. There's always going to be overlapping ideas, but I think checkpoints diminishes the game greatly.

[@AOTLTng]

@@JonJonTheWise Hm. you do have a point there, I am just a new person wanting to get in into making my own stories for Cyberpunk 2020. But i'll take your word for it and give it a try 1st. see how well it goes.

[@michaeldarde8911]

Thank you it s very helpful

[@sand5857]

So combat is a non playable mess that sucks... man, realism is not the same as convoluted....

[@Eyecyou64]

This game seems obnoxious I'm just going to skip a lot of the realism