The Death of Corporate Hifi starring SONOS!

Sonos is bleeding and other corporate hifi companies struggle. Is this the end? Hopefully Not
check out my other channel / @cheapwatchman_official
Intro graphics by johnvilardi.com
BEST HIFI COMMUNITY OUT THERE / cheapaudioman
Support the Channel! Shop on Amazon amzn.to/3W8vsgK
Crutchfield shop-links.co/...
Join the best hifi community out there! / cheapaudioman
TRY ROON
Tidal Deal bit.ly/3siuqSF
Amazon Unlimited Music Trial amzn.to/3DRAVj9
Crutchfield shop-links.co/...
Best Buy Deals shop-links.co/...
amzn.to/3GkNaop
CAM Store (New Products!) bit.ly/30Lgu4K
apos.audio?sca_ref=552340.TY98BPcZ6P
massdrop.7eer....
Amazon Unlimited Music Trial amzn.to/3DRAVj9
Tidal Deal bit.ly/3fQvNkq
www.patreon.com/cheapaudioman
High Res Music Streaming for FREE!!!!
Amazon Music Unlimited Free Trial amzn.to/3fiiMPC
Test Track Playlist:
music.amazon.c...
Satanic Panic Playlist:
music.amazon.c...
Leg Warmers Playlist
music.amazon.c...
cheapaudioman
If you click on this link and sign up for a free trial I will receive a small referral fee.
If you use any of my links to purchase products I will receive a small commission on the sale of that item. Won’t cost you any more to purchase with the link.
Recommended Streamer
WIIM Mini amzn.to/33CL99w
Bluesound Node shop-links.co/...
Recommended Speaker List
Around $100 (These prices will fluctuate between $75 - $150)
Sony SSCS5 - Lively amzn.to/3pZNnGk
Neumi BS5 -Neutral amzn.to/3q0SR3B
Elac BS41 amzn.to/3SBmEgq
Around $200
Emotiva Airmotiv B1+ - Crystal Clear and Punchy emotiva.com?aff=9
Jamo Concert howl.me/cf295u...
Elac Debut b5.2 - Neutral amzn.to/2WPNQxw
JBL Stage A130 - Neutral/Great All Arounder at $179 the best value amzn.to/3t7gOHe
Around $400
Emotiva B2+ emotiva.com?aff=9
Jamo C93ii Bit - Boosted on Top howl.me/cf295u...
Q Acoustics 3030i - Neutral with Punch - amzn.to/2OQkpLo
Around $500
SVS Prime bit.ly/2LozJgF
Wharfedale Diamond 12.2 bit.ly/2ZckoD9
Wharfedale Denton 80th amzn.to/3Sv8RIq
Around $600
Elac Uni-Fi UB5.2 - Neutral amzn.to/3s3srPG
Elac Debut Reference - Buttery but Detailed amzn.to/39bt6WC
Polk Reserve R100/200 howl.me/cf29Ue...
Aperion Novus - Neutral and probably the best desktop speaker one can get $599 bit.ly/2Q1H9rW
Aperion Novus Open Box $449 bit.ly/3us8zGx
Wharfedale Diamonds Lush and Detailed amzn.to/3aBAso0 Come as singles
Recommended Amp List
Under $100
Aiyima A07 - Neutral and Full amzn.to/3g9YLNf
Fosi Audio V3 - Extremely Clean - Audiophile Sound (Best Amp under $250) amzn.to/3rhrpDL
Fosi Audio TB10D amzn.to/43cJtwh
Fosi Audio BT20a Pro amzn.to/3r8pgdH
Around $130
Aiyima T9 amzn.to/3F8eOb6
Around $250
SMSL DA-9 Balanced Amp amzn.to/34SdbLs
Around $400
Emotiva TA1 - DAC, Phono Stage, Pre Outs - Balanced and Tasty emotiva.com?aff=9
Recommended DACs
Geshelli Labs J2 geshelli.com/p...
SMSL SU8s amzn.to/2SWTGiw
Denafrips Ares 2 www.denafrips....
Subs
Emotiva SE8 emotiva.com?aff=9
Emotiva SE12 emotiva.com?aff=9
SVS SB1000 Pro bit.ly/3scmwsc

[@welderfixer]

The Klipsch employees should be allowed to take over and be a respected loudspeaker manufacturer again.

[@dillonbray]

Return Klipsch to Hope Arkansas.

[@JoshColletta]

@@dillonbray And do everything possible to remain true to Paul's vision.

[@mrmagpie33]

I worked for RCA which was really Thompson Electronics. RCA is a holding company, been this way for 25 years. They will bleed Klipsch dry and sell off the name. You can thank General Electric for gutting these American companies. It was literally the "Wolf of wall street" movie IRL:

[@erictheblue7256]

I still respect Klipsch employees now, regardless of their corporate ownership. Having said this, the employees should do a CBA to see if they can operate profitably on their own. They make fabulous, respected, innovative products (ie the active speakers: Fives, Sevens, Nines).

[@MrDecessus]

Nice idea, but corp/wall street would first destroy it make money off the parts and fire everyone before it ever would go in the right direction.

[@vincentpedalino618]

Its not my job to keep Sonos, Klipsch, etc in business. It's their job to keep me as a customer. We need to somehow get back to that work ethic. Your end comments are spot on Randy. Probably your best video yet!!

[@cheapaudioman]

Wow. Thanks! I don’t even know what I said

[@rjr7781]

@@cheapaudioman "Like and subscribe if you liked this video." Magic.

[@innovate.integrate.transfo6169]

From 12:15 on, I am surprised at your insight. Most of it is true, some is not quite as aligned with what actually happens. For example, yes, what is done (results and tactics) by CEOs is fairly accurate, however, CEOs who move on in 2-5 years really do want to do well. Regardless of how it may seem, and the decisions made, they have no guarantee of the next brass ring. What you see is that if they can show results in a short period of time you (the CEO) become "in demand" and get offers. If the offers are enticing enough you take them. Candidly, who wouldn't? Otherwise, the tactics on the ground and the impact is spot on. Surprising business insight (that is mostly accurate) from an audio aficionado 🙂. Speaking from both personal experience and working with the F500 for more than 30 years now...

[@Avruthlelbh]

This. So many "Help, [giant corporation] is dying!!! How do we save them?" as if it's not almost always entirely their fault. Capitalism (as well as any political system that allows for private corporations) relies on allowing corporations to die out when they fail to meet the demands of the consumer. Constantly bailing them out defeats the purpose of that system. We should let them figure it out, or fade into obscurity.

[@jimk8520]

@@innovate.integrate.transfo6169 “CEO’s who move on…want to do well.” Agreed. However, “do well” can mean very different things to/for different people.

[@kermit88a]

I'm a 20 year Sonos user (first system in 2004). The app was rushed and is confusing to use. 5 Years ago, they rolled out an update that bricked 7 of my 20 units. To this day, I feel betrayed. I don't see any performance improvoements in the newer units, and it makes me ill every time I add a new unit to my system. I don't wish death on the Sonos ecosystem, but the Sonos company is tough to love.

[@markwalsh2709]

Get ready with your TLDR. Sonos really messed up, but Sonos is pretty damn cool at the same time. I have 11 rooms, including bathrooms, my garage, and the laundry room on my sonos system, as well as additional soundbars and surrounds for tv's. I have Klipsch fives, Klipsch RP600M, B&W AM1's, and Ikea symfonisk speakers as part of the system. I can play all of the rooms with the same source, or each separately. some rooms have a single speaker, some have paired speakers, and two rooms have full surround systems. Sonos isn't audiophile, but they do sound good. Some rooms just don't need a pair of speakers, and Sonos gives you big sound with a single five or Era 300 with only a power cord needed. My B&W AM1's sound great on the patio with the Sonos amp. It's mostly a bunch of bricks if they go out of business and cannot support the servers to run the app. The release of speakers using the new Mayht technology should rebound them, but we will have to wait and see. Mayht technology sounds great on paper, and I can't wait to see what Sonos does with it. I have had complete McIntosh systems and components and speakers from Mark Levinson, Threshold, Krell, B&W, B&O, and many more. I've had other whole house setups. My whole Sonos system cost less than my Mark Levinson amp and pre-amp cost me. Even when I had the best audiophile systems I could afford, I still had speakers throughout the house for ambient sound everywhere.

[@lotuslandmusic7770]

Yeah, the Sonos stuff is well designed and makes it easy to do what you need to do.

[@mrdavisdrummer]

Man, I liked this video. Sometimes it’s cool to take a peek behind the curtains to get an understanding of some of the other non-audio related issues that impact the production of the audio gear.

[@kevinpunter7960]

A Wizard of Oz moment

[@cletusrobinson]

We have Sonos in 4 different rooms and we love it. It’s good enough for us in providing easy to manage choices, even for the grand kids!

[@fubartotale3389]

What?! Sonos is going under? OH NO! I'm not sure if I can go on! ......on second thought, I'll be fine...

[@Audiodreamer192-24]

😂💯👍

[@elasmojones]

oh no! anyway....

[@rcud1]

Its not just Sonos, its many other audio companies too.

[@chuckgraham8219]

People need to pay for massive increases in insurance premiums, food, energy, and other necessities. It's the economy! Luxury items and frivolities are suffering.

[@artureff3046]

Luxury not, premium

[@mississippirsol1576]

The problem in today's financial environment is that companies are being gobbled up by hedge funds that haven't a clue about running a business but buy them up to make a quick buck and then trash the company, taking the money and running. I'm afraid the small boutique audio companies don't have the capital to buy the brands you mentioned. They barely have the funds to keep their own brand afloat. I wish it were otherwise, but it's not.

[@jC-kc4si]

Hmmm...strip mining the wealth from companies and giving it to already wealthy people sounds like a recipe for worldwide disaster

[@atomicinv2]

Best ever 11:54 description of the corporate world in about 90 seconds

[@erics.4113]

I like that you called out Cambridge Audio for doing things right in this landscape. I like the company, and you should all put ears on their Edge flagship. It is really good stuff.

[@1donjuego]

Stock price drop wipes out "market value," not "market share."

[@POVwithRC]

@@1donjuego Write a letter to the author of the article. The KZbin host cannot do much for you.

[@michaelspurling4376]

The CEO of Sonos should be unemployed. I'm an IT guy and the release of the new Sonos app was criminally flawed. I have a pair of ERA-300s in my bedroom and, after months, the full functionality using the new app has not been restored. I liked my Sonos speakers well enough that I might well have been a customer for the new headphones but I am so angry about the app that I may never buy another Sonos product.

[@Crumbleofborg]

Big corporations often make the fundamental error of believing their mission is to make profit. Great companies, however, know that their mission is to make great products that their customers love. Making profit is essential but it is merely a business constraint.

[@lelandclayton5462]

I'm a AV Integrator by trade and I have seen and felt the drop in Hifi. The company I work has a few contracts with home builders and home buyers during the design phase come in and we sale them audio, ethernet, cameras and so on. Before covid we were selling a 5.1 or 7.1 system to almost everyone that bought a home. Had homes where people bought two systems, one for the livingroom and one for a bonus room for a "Man cave". Since 2023 I think we sell an audio system every ten houses. It has dropped big time. If I go deploy a camera system after a customer closed on their home all I see are cheap Samsung soundbars.

[@rangerrecon]

Soundbars have definitely impacted the home theater experience. Along with that, people seem accustom to trading quality sound for the convenience of lower quality sound that they get from their blutetooth solutions. They don't know what they're missing and see only the cost savings and convenience of a soundbar and subwoofer that they pull out of a box, plug into their HDMI Arc connection, and call it "home theater".

[@teddy0139]

@@lelandclayton5462 funny thing is, some soundbars are not even cheap and you could get a decent speakers for their price

[@getdealtwithquick]

No one should be in the least surprised about that. The way home prices AND interest rates + costs of everything ekse have shot up in such a short amount of time. Who is going to prioritize a home theater installation over essentials?

[@mattmiller4978]

Sonos. My favorite palindrome. To be fair they work great as network speakers for smart homes. Easy to automate and push text to speech notifications based on events. Or music automation. People put NFCs in CD cases and use their phone to read them and play albums. All kinds of audio fun. I hope there are some good deals, because you don't really need the app for some use cases.

[@teekay_1]

I echo everything you said, and as I pointed out they're the only ones who can do 5.1.2 wirelessly with Atmos, and actually makes it sound good. For my purposes (for my TV) they work great and they have the built in spotify, so to a certain extent I can live with no upgrades or even the app.

[@gregbartley2475]

I know someone who works at a big box electronics store. He tells me people (for the most part) want the biggest, not best, tv they can get a most of them don’t care about sound at all. Some will do a sound bar but almost nobody will even consider a traditional surround sound system.

[@MaxFeken]

Honestly, the sound bars are pretty good. Plus, my wife won't have to tell me to turn it down all the time and have to look at all the speakers (still have 2-channel with subwoofer for music).

[@gregbartley2475]

@@MaxFeken I have nothing against sound bars. I was just making a point about the stock price free fall of the companies (Not Sonos) Randy was referring to.

[@yonkocommander5531]

@@MaxFekenlast I checked something like 80% of TV owners use the internal speakers, 18% used soundbars and 2% dedicated speakers with receivers, if you listen to a cheap soundboard you’re already listening to better audio than 80% of people

[@BrandonToy]

@@yonkocommander5531Do people know what they’re missing?

[@roybatty-]

@@yonkocommander5531 I would argue that the sound out of televisions is better than many cheap soundbars.

[@richbulena8847]

I wasn't expecting a Prof G Podcast video from you, but it was a great summary of American corporate culture. "A whole lot of soccer," hah, I've seen that too many times.

[@miseyrides]

You absolutely nailed it on what happens at publicly traded companies. I lived that for years and it became laughable. I once told my “new” CIO that I’ll outlive him at the company since he was just following his “good old boy club”! He lasted about 2 years and then we got the next group of worthless managers. I’m glad to be retired from that horrible rat race! Great video!!!

[@RileytheBunny]

@@miseyrides it’s really sad. There were some great engineers that got people off of terrible Bluetooth with Sonos systems.. And then they just stopped innovating. Business class case study. Also the pricing is insanity and the BS with not providing specs ( Bose model). The subwoofers are just madness in pricing. When you can get a Speedwoofer which are crazy good for a fair price at almost half the price.

[@fredjoel8113]

Exactly! Excellent analysis. Spent much of my career in the corporate world as well as an entrepreneur, part of which was in consumer electronics focused on audio. Storied brand RCA was quite the organization decades ago, not so much recently. Certainly being passionate about products and taking care of customers are key success factors. Would be interesting to explore the Harmon group of companies since the Samsung acquisition.

[@chrisAclaes]

I used to have a Sonos Amp. It always worked very well. I swapped out for the WiiM amp and there have been pros and cons. I still have one of their little assistant speakers, and I'll probably keep it forever. Great little kitchen device.

[@Brian_Romska]

Most of my hifi future planned purchases will be from companies like Geshelli, emotiva, magnepan, schiit, CSS audio, etc., so I guess I’m neither surprised or concerned about the big guys, except for the part where a bunch of people could lose their jobs. Hopefully it’ll be a lesson learned and a turn to build less trash products that only last for a year?

[@peterowings7233]

So you consider B&W a trash product? I better get those speakers out of my house because the year is almost up.

[@TheFrugalAudiophile]

Mine too! I don’t really have any plans to buy from these “big box store “brands.

[@Brian_Romska]

Agree, glad I have enough cash to be able to say that too! Not bragging, working hard for 35 years pays off tho, at least it should…

[@Old_Sailor85]

You will like the Magnepan and CSS Audio speakers. I have both, and happy. Also been down the classic speaker road. Klipsch, JBL, Infinity, Yamaha, Advent, AR, KEF, etc.

[@jamesdellaneve9005]

I bought Magnepans this year. Amazing sound for the price. Made in USA!

[@elliotthall5543]

Hey Randy, I don't know whether you review/liked/didn't like them or not, but Klipsch model fives are down to 399 on Amazon. Just thought your viewers may be interested. I'm not in the market for any speakers, but almost bought some for some imaginary space I might have later, maybe...because gear.

[@Durkhead]

Sonos is the bose of wireless speakers

[@leehallman5104]

No highs, no lows, must be Bose. ☮️

[@Audiodreamer192-24]

Exactly!!👍💯

[@noahbirdrevolution]

Bose is what it is, but it's actually a well ran company and their noise canceling headphones are the top of there non-audiophile field. Sonos is a typical cookie cutter publicly traded corp.

[@Audiodreamer192-24]

@@noahbirdrevolution “top of non audiophile “ ….. so you mean best of the not so good?….

[@mikerowe-roberts9336]

Bose is on another level to Sonos in business terms. They are killing it

[@glenjo0]

Your analysis of large American corporate managers is SPOT ON. Seen it over, and over, and over. They somehow manage to get huge bonuses while the run the corporation into the ground.

[@riffraff9000]

Schiit Audio for the win! Growing and expanding. Made in the USA.

[@Chris11249]

Products like the WiiM Pro Plus multi-room streamer can solve all your problems at an audiophile level without needing Sonos. And there's many others. I usually play Spotify, or Tital if I'm feeling fancy on my phone, and it connects with my Wiim via app for high-res audio, (not the horrible quality AirPlay streaming). I can then play that on my nice living room speakers, or anywhere else in the house that has a smaller $99 Wiim Puck. Of course if I wanted to I could build in powered speakers of my choice in the ceiling and run them also through hidden Wiim pucks, but then I'd probably get a dedicated iPad to run the house sound system that is accessible for anyone to play with, not just running off my phone

[@JayValancy]

Randy overview and insight is refreshing and spot on! More of this, please. And, please continue phrases like "it's soccer, lots of action, very few goals". Love it!

[@HooverTuber]

I repped and installed Sonos products for years. The APP and the set up process have always been a struggle. Never really plug and play until about 2 years ago. Then this recent APP update, what garbage. They made their bed, then shat in it. I had clients calling and texting me from installs I did years ago complaining about it lol

[@Scalptrash]

The ONLY way to stop the bleeding is to roll back the app. It’s shocking that they are risking their very existence on some headphones that nobody asked for. The reviews are in, and while they review well, they are no better than what’s already available, yet they cost more. Oh yeah, and the app is absolute trash now anyway.

[@jack6539]

great summarisation. After more than 30 years in engineering companies, your summarisation of how the larger the company gets the more the focus turns to distractions and the impression of progress at the expense of outcomes is bang on the money. It is literally everywhere. Do we all remember those smaller family businesses that were really passionate about making the best components - hell, I still remember my Royd 7 bookshelf speakers - amazing stuff. I'll just stick with my vintage sansui, orpheus speakers, thorens turntable and my recent acquisition of a wiim pro Plus (thanks for the review on that btw).

[@Art-is-craft]

Some people do not want a fridge freezer in their living room with lots of cables and knobs. This has been evident for the last 60 years.

[@joshua43214]

Those stock price drops seem to match the loss of discretionary cash we have all experienced in the last few years.

[@knobbshots]

Just read google article this morning, a little scared. I work at a resort and there is a colors ceremony every night in summer. I use sonos “connect” devices all around the resort to simultaneously broadcast ceremony (and announcements, etc). Can’t find anything to replace (to do what sonos does)

[@nigeltrigger4499]

In in the olden days that would be called a PA system - google it.

[@tourist06]

Put some Google speakers into a group. I have two Google speakers and a chromecast audio playing simultaneously

[@beitie]

Growing up in the 80's, 90's and early 2000's, I was a major fan of Pioneer. So sad to see what they have become. More recently I've fallen in love with Bang & Olufsen.

[@laidback93]

I too was a die hard Pioneer fan starting in the 90s. I recently bought a new Denon AVR to replace my aging Pioneer Elite AVR. That felt very strange. Like I cheated on my spouse.

[@RobertFoxL]

Preach 👍 especially after the 11th minute marker! Brilliant analysis . . . Unfortunately, this is happening in many other industries as well . . . .

[@Platoface]

Sonos creates its own wireless network (do not hard wire them, just don’t. Especially if you run UniFi Switches and router. )

[@bertvelkers8981]

My concern is if sonos falls over will the speakers still work

[@davidjameswales]

Never lock yourself into a closed ecosystem if you care about that. Sonos is a perfect example.

[@bertvelkers8981]

You are probably right but when I bought sonos speakers I did not have the idea that I would be in an eco system. But of course it is. Now I only have 2 five's and the thought of expanding to a surround system for example was there quickly. Maybe I should buy a good amplifier with even better speakers!

[@Jetta4TDIR]

My cousins husband is a regional marketing manager at Sonos and hes very worried about his job. I feel for him because he reported the app wasn't ready to his direct manager and was ignored

[@roybatty-]

I have the Sonos amp powering a 2.1 TV/music system. The app is glitchy lately and currently the app is not even set up. Good news is that the amp is working just fine without the app. It kept all my EQ, crossover and sub level settings the same (I run everything at 0). It sounds perfectly fine and I control volume with the TV remote. Streaming music from my TV, phone and computer. TBH I did not use the Sonos music to begin with.

[@lancecornell9978]

A close friend has a very high end Sonos system in his home. Since the app was updated, the system barely works. I joked it will launch skynet missles next

[@dinosaursr]

Same here. My friend can’t do anything with their system.

[@bpb5541]

They will fix it. Not to worry. Everyone makes mistakes, even companies.

[@lancecornell9978]

@bpb5541 its been months since the app updated.

[@tonyhodgkinson4586]

My Sonos stopped working with the new app so I’ve abandoned Sonos and bought a Ruark DAB+ radio that just works, no hassle or trouble.

[@Winterfell1066]

Sonos Works great for my outdoor system around the pool. Can easily play my TVs or Apple Music or any other app. Don't need high res outside or in my screen room. I use my own class D amp for power. I use other brand outdoor speakers that are hard wired. Has worked great.

[@danger.will.robinson]

Randy, I would've loved to see your take on Yamaha.

[@brianfarley4372]

I actually work for a boutique manufacturer, Lenbrook (Bluesound, DALI, NAD & PSB) and we are thriving. We are blessed to see huge demand for Bluesound partially driven by other manufacturer's missteps, but mostly by just offering better performing product and a seamless APP experience. With the announcement today of our new Bluesound products at prices under the mass-market brands I'm sure we will continue to see more join the Bluesound family!

[@Audiodreamer192-24]

I love bluesound and have used nodes for years now. The icon looks amazing!

[@darensamuels5208]

I don’t think it’s public versus private. I think it’s focus versus diversification. Product development requires massive investment, so access to financial markets is good. Lack of focus is what kills these brands. That and badge engineering to commonize platforms and share components and subsystems. Differentiation is lost and brands become junk.

[@GetOffMyyLawn]

After my Klipsch powered speakers failed, and i discovered how unrepairable they are, they lost a customer... and i will never buy any powered speaker again.

[@nonymousA1]

I have several Sonos speakers. One set is the full arc home theater, also several small "one" speakers around the house and even the Roam. For simple integration whole home audio it is easy to use. My family appreciates that. Are they Hifi? No, they are just ok...passable for general listening. However the ease to add things here and there are wonderful. I haven't had any problems with the new app but it isn't as good as the old one, hands down. I also have enterprise level networking at my house so I am sure that helps some. That said I have an office that only I use. I have a small stereo setup in there (SMSL SA300, Micca RB42s) that I listen to music on all day while I work. I prefer it for music listening. Each has their own space that seldom overlap. That said, the new app most likely needs reverted to the old app.

[@daviddechamps8840]

@@nonymousA1 exactly the same here: Sonos for general listening across the house + my own setup in my office (NAD + Dali Menuet + REL subwoofer). Honestly, I think that Sonos sounds quite good for casual listening.

[@johnlehew8192]

Ditto. Same setup. Have the real home theater upstairs and the Sonos for my better half downstairs master and an old school Sony 5.1 receiver on the living room TV with some Kef speakers. Compared to the TV speaker, Sonos is amazing, looks the best, and very easy to setup.

[@rickprice4613]

I'm not surprised this happened. I have several Sonos speakers and it's a pisser when you can't connect and get music. The app is showing a letter from the CEO falling on his sword for the horrible Implementation of the new app. I was a young adopter of hifi buying my first set of Yamaha separates with RSL Eighty tower speakers from an RSL store way back.... I had a shoestring connection to all things audio back in 2013 and went to CEDIA. I got a Sonons Playbar and Sub (gen 1) that I use today in my main floor family room. I almost went all Sonos a couple years back when I finished my basement ... really glad I came back to traditional components. I'm crossing over from enthusiast to addict :)

[@user-mz6lt2pr9s]

Sonos is very good at what it does in my experience with the exception of the app upgrade they have been working to repair. I have the Beam 2 connected with Arc to the 2 main TVs both along with mini subs. The family likes the simplicity of use, sound and low key appearance. The best soundbar I’ve heard for streaming music too. I have a system in-wall in my main bath and it rocks. I have a Move and it’s great on the go. It doesn’t compare sound wise with my 2.2 music only system but again it does what it needs to do where it’s used. I liked the sound of their cans but I returned them since I didn’t need a second pair of ANC headphones. Rock on.

[@Deke1]

So what you're saying is that it's a good time to buy Sonos Stock, buy low, sell high!!

[@Eron55555]

I gave up my Sonos system to go into FunFi and Lintons. No turning back.

[@gabrielbergman1986]

Funfi and lintons? Explain please

[@Eron55555]

@@gabrielbergman1986 Chi-Fi Fosi V3 Mono blocks and Wharfedale Lintons. A wonderful match if you ask me.

[@crimlarksSteve]

Fantastic video! Having worked in 2 companies that were taken over by other companies you see the same disfunction happen over and over again. First upper management says "We're not going to change anything" HA! Then about 2 years in they do and things start to go to hell. Then 2 or 3 years later they sell off what had been a successful company, having lost a boatload of money and laid off a lot of talented people. And hopefully what is left of those companies are able to survive and grow again. Thankfully I'm retired and don't have to go thru that again, but it's really disturbing seeing it happen to these audio companies. I'd really hate to see B&W or Klipsch or Marantz or any of the other fine audio companies die.

[@middleearthltd]

The two brands I am rooting for are Klipsch and Marantz Two American audio icons At least Klipsch is still made in the USA It would be nice if it reverted back to Arkansas ownership

[@AndreKoningsDjndre]

Marantz is made in Japan ,Bose is American .

[@middleearthltd]

@@AndreKoningsDjndre correct I revised my comment accordingly

[@erics.4113]

I like Klipsch. It would be difficult to imagine a hifi landscape without them. I'd absolutely love them to do a higher end version of something like a 600M but with better cabinet and drivers. A true high end bookshelf from them would be awesome

[@amazoidal]

Are you sure about Marantz and Japan? Maybe the high-end Marantz.

[@AndreKoningsDjndre]

@@amazoidal I think you have a point like the famous Ken Ishiwata 🙏🏾

[@mynameisradman]

Although I haven't heard all the Sonos stuff, what I have heard wasn't anything I'd ever be happy with.

[@jagejg7239]

I just want to note that the revenue of private companies are kept private so it’s possible this is an industry trend.

[@yonkocommander5531]

⁠last I checked something like 80% of TV owners use the internal speakers, 18% used soundbars and 2% dedicated speakers with receivers, if you listen to a cheap soundboard you’re already listening to better audio than 80% of people.

[@tikilord66]

And that 80% could probably care less.

[@yonkocommander5531]

@@tikilord66 you can’t “care” if you don’t know what you’re missing out, I worked for a big TV retailer and most people’s complaints revolve around not understanding the dialogue of movies, if you showed them how a soundbar (for the most part) solves that issue they immediately buy one.

[@timomy8]

Well done Randy nice to have additional content that's Audio related but focusing on other parts of the industry. Might have a regular reoccurring spot for this new content ? ;)

[@time_of_yer_life_eh_kid]

I’m a Sonos user, I also spent decades in software development and can tell you they failed miserably with the app “upgrade”. First it was not an upgrade, it was a total redo. They could not have tested the app before releasing it to production. There were SO many problems, major functionality missing, example you could not play your OWN music for four months. Personally I don’t stream as much as I listen to the music I own because it’s convenient. Thousands complained, “we’re working on it”. They deserve everything that happens to them.

[@ITonOccasion]

Why is Sonos doing so bad? Summed up at the beginning. "I don't use Sonos..but..I've heard about them..." - Cheapaudioman and most people. 😆

[@gerrynelson5850]

I have watched you closely from the start.....and I was just waiting for you to unleash the beast........thank you Sir for revealing your business acumen...............

[@rancosteel]

What a trip. My wife used to to work for MW Life sciences which was just purchased by Ametek and I use to work for Invensys (The Foxboro Company) which was bought by Schneider Electric who closed the facility in Foxboro Massachusetts and subcontracted the division. They then built a facility in Mexico to handle the electronics portion of the product line. We all got laid off.

[@MillennialDiligence-sx8re]

I love how easy Sonos is to use. I’m just a normie. It’s easy to group speakers and play stuff quick and easy.

[@chrisgoyette1846]

I recently purchased the Marantz Model 50 Integrated Amp, All Analog! No digital crap or app! So I'm really hoping that they don't go under before my 5 year warranty expires! I love it by the way. Pricey, but you get what you pay for. Quality product built with Quality Parts. Keep up the Great Work Randy!! Your Content is Awesome= I watch everything. Lol. Peace from Rhode Island

[@awesomeferret]

That moment when you remember that "digital crap" is the only way to get the best audio. If your receiver is truly analog, then congrats, you have a digital to analog to analog setup, while I (with my HTR that supports things like HDMI) get higher quality audio (in theory) due to there only being digital to analog conversion (seriously, just try to argue that having the receiver decode the music with less conversion steps is a bad thing). You're probably one of those people who think that vinyl is a high quality format, even though the RIAA EQ curve is thing (vinyl records literally have audio compression built into their design). Sorry, but noise is an artifact of a technological limitation. You might subjectively prefer noisy audio, but adding on a lot of opportunities for the signal to degrade by using a purely analog amp isn't a great idea. Im very curouis to hear why you think it is a good idea. Or am I just taking you too literally and it's not a true analog amp? Those are relatively rare both for the reason I pointed out above, and the overall impracticality of it (hmm, one unit that does more, is smaller, sounds better and costs less... Is "crap" to you???) suggests that you are statistically unlikely to own one, and are more likely to be using hyperbolic grammar.

[@jamesmckeon9689]

I'm an individual investor and I am drawn to these Voxx type beaten down stocks.. usually the lose value,,, great to listen to someone who knows the reason they are beaten down... I think I love you

[@indysitebroker]

Great perspective, Randy. And don’t forget McIntosh labs, which has a tremendous brand loyalty, durability, and longevity has changed ownership five times in 30 years! I am certain there is more annual revenue associated with companies owned by some of their audiophile clients than is produced by McIntosh!

[@Natan9000]

To be fair I really really liked my Sonos products. The mobile room EQ is very good and I’ve never had any issues. They sound quite good too but the thing is I listened to music way more when I had them cuz there so easy and simply continue playing where u stopped when pressing pause play. It’s so convenient they deserve some praise. I haven’t used the app since the critique came though.

[@seanrichards9569]

Sonos just nailed it originally, but that was when nothing like it existed. The idea that it was a complete ecosystem and also slowly expandable was huge. But it’s always been price prohibitive for many folks. As competition has arrived in the marketplace they’ve stuck to their guns on this so the limited market of people who will buy this gear gets split further and further. It’s no wonder they’ve lost value as a company.

[@michaelsegel8758]

Randy, don't give up your day job. ;-) While I wouldn't own these stocks, there are a lot of factors that go in to the stock price and the bottom line of the company. You can have a company that sells a great product, yet the company goes belly up because they made some bad financial decisions. And vice versa. You can see companies that sell carp products yet they are doing very well. As to the small independents... they are not publicly traded companies so you don't know what their balance sheets look like. In general one would suspect that popular small companies tend to survive is due to their lower overhead and better cost controls. YT guys like you tend to also help by promoting their brands and getting the word out. I agree that Sonos appears to have messed up. The simple fix would be for them to make the earlier version of their app available so that customers can go back to that until they fix the new version. Look at Bose for example. Outside of their headphones... lets be honest... what of their products would you buy?

[@bobby666666]

News yesterday stated the old app may be being reissued until the new app works as it should.

[@adamcanterbury]

loved this format and the content, great job....😊

[@albeklik8055]

That's when the big investors cash their money and you get ripped off Good morning America😢

[@stevehollingbery9744]

Oh such a familiar story, Corporate companies are all about the mighty dollar. Seen time and again in the defence market. Tossers in UK vernacular. Nice vid Mr Cheapaudio man😊

[@rajwoodson]

20+ years SONOS fan here (and shareholder). 4+ months and I STILL cant access local music library. Spent HOURS troubleshooting. Seriously thinking of moving off SONOS

[@briangasser973]

I have a klipsch 10 year old 2.1 system for my pc and still love it

[@KrakenBolter]

11:50 he is describing the managerial revolution where the owners of capital (capitalists) started to become replaced by the managers of capital which sums up corporate America today

[@GreybeardMO]

Or... some Chinese group will by the rights, and start selling cheap junk under what used to be a good American brand label... ala Phillips, Magnavox, RCA.

[@Nightjar726]

How do you know the smaller independent companies are doing well? We can’t look at their balance sheets and I highly doubt they are doing well in this complete disaster of an economy. Hifi is a luxury

[@awesomeferret]

Careful there. New hifi is a luxury. Give yourself a decade to build a system and you'll have a very high end setup for well under 500 dollars built from thrift store and rummage sale speakers. So, if you're impatient, and aren't willing to mix and match brands in your setup and deal with cosmetic flaws, then yes, hifi is expensive. 50 bucks and a day of thrifting already gets you a sound system that's way way better than most of your friends' systems, so... 🤷‍♂️

[@Lou.B]

Very interesting reporting!!! Thank You!

[@mrbill4206]

I had to choose between sonos and bluos when i started. Bluos speakers sounded much better in side by side comparison.

[@EdevaldoPereiradaSilvaJuni-x1o]

Sonos was really cool and does some things really well. As long as you throw away your system and buy a new one every 10 years or so it is great. It frustrated most of its users, I know a good number of people that did not get theirs systems back to work after the app issue and the lack of support for the older equipment. There was all this coolness about their system, they were getting people to switch an then created all this turmoil. It is not a surprise they lost their way.

[@maartenb100]

I used to love Sonos. The concept was excellent, until they made the speakers totally dependent on the App and you couldn’t get the speakers,running without registering and having a permanent connection to the Internet. This means that the speakers are not really yours and if Sonos wants to, or goes out of business, your speakers are bricks, useless. Same goes for Apple HomePods. I’m not buying any stuff that requires registration and connection to the Internet to work. I’m going back to old school HiFi.

[@BobbyTwoTimes]

100% on point! Great video, future Senator Audioman.

[@rhphotocdn]

One thing I’ll say about SONOS is when it works it’s fantastic. Multiple Rooms work like it’s supposed to. I ditched my SONOS for a NAIM MUSO and MUSO QB, better sound but nothing but a connection nightmare. Constantly fighting to keep speakers connected and in sync and staying on for long periods. I finally got so sick of fighting with the NAIM MUSO’s, I sold them! SONOS connectivity is terrific, when you have the right network.

[@ewanp13]

The holding company I love is IAC (I think) which has Luxman, Quad, Wharfedale and many others. Hands off operation.

[@cheapaudioman]

Agreed. And all very traditional Hifi companies not trying to make Bluetooth speakers and sound bars. I think a holding company like that works because there is parity across all brands and commonality.

[@pyrolusite]

Never knew which company owned all these institutional legendary audio companies. Nice video.

[@CrashTestingAudio]

I never had an issue with the app. I have Sonos throughout the house and actually networked my traditional systems through various ports. Kind of a Frankenstein from different eras but it’s actually quite workable. I also use a pair of Sonos Moves (they do well on the sidelines of soccer games for warmups) outside, stereo paired on WiFi when enjoying a bonfire or hosting dinner on the patio. If I had to do it over again I’d not go in on Sonos… but already there.

[@christophergaus3996]

Man, for just a split second I thought it was gonna be your full old-school intro 😎

[@BeyondResolution]

Onkyo was sold recently to Klipsch.. when Onkyo went belly up.. Klipsch have bought out many companies over the years.. like Jamo, Energy and more.. :)

[@mikeyt6456]

Build your own speakers, don’t support these corporate conglomerates who utilize inferior components reproducing inferior sound through processing and ridiculous Apps to control. I built my own home theatre system and hi-fi system and they both sound incredible, in their different ways. HT is class A/B amplification and hi-fi is tube. Support companies like Parts Express who actually care about their customers.

[@lm74829]

Bravo, this video should be watched by a far larger audience than “just” HiFi buffs.

[@dduple1]

I have several Sonos speakers. Over the years they don't support old speakers and their app is harder to use and streaming became loaded with commercials. So I have great speakers that are a pain in my ass.

[@thetinyflames]

Oooh! Stock advice! Love it.

[@rangerrecon]

I've never had any Sonos devices, but that is partially because I had heard of compatibility of issues with new app and product releases as Sonos releases new products. I do agree that these large holding companies like Voxx need to go away if the brands that they own are to differentiate themselves and exercise actual creativity that spurs that differentiation in the market place. Otherwise these holding companies stiffle the innovation by mandating that the brands pursue cheaper operations only innovate in ways that are already proven to raise revenue, which isn't innovation if it is already being done by others.

[@bristolwoodburners81]

That graph looks very sensational - it shows the last six months though. A quick google of 'sonos stock' and then a click on the '5 year' trajectory simply appears to show a return to pre covid levels

[@JR-ho5qm]

When the Gibson guitar company was in financial trouble they sold off the CerwinVega! Name back to CerwinVega! And you still haven’t given them a chance to review. Luckily some other reviewers are starting to see that the CV! Name deserves to be talked about and can once again hopefully be a relevant name in home audio. Polk was doing so well with new product development before the buy out. I really hope everything there is still good and potentially see something new soon. 👍🏻

[@OpheliaGeorge-b2e]

Sometimes I stare at a door or a wall and I wonder what is this reality, why am I alive, and what is this all about?

[@JonaThan-e5l]

All our knowledge begins with the senses, proceeds then to the understanding, and ends with reason. There is nothing higher than reason.

[@foldspacenavigator6011]

Heard of em many times though never heard their stuff. Always thought they were like Bose, decent non audiophile stuff for the gen population.

[@TonyMezaXD]

@cheapaudioman you sound both knowledgeable and jaded about big corporations. I appreciate the insight.

[@christopherhasty8697]

Klipsch, Marantz, B&W, and others have released some good products despite despite corporate ownership. The problem is that there was a glut of these products purchased during COVID. Now the hangover is here. Take Klipsch for example, releasing the Jubilee. There is clearly some passion at the ground-level, but these are tough times to peddle discretionary items.