The Death of the Orc

A thing is not a thing if it is not what it is.
The Pondering: ‪@ThePonderingoftheorb‬

[@St.IsaacOfSyria]

Sauron can't import as many orcs without USAID

[@JesusFriedChrist]

Diversity is Gondor’s strength

[@Ilyak1986]

I wonder if he also was getting help from UNMWA--the UN Mordor Works Association =P A reminder--orcs are Palestinians--the Palestinians even admit to as much and the evidence is overwhelming.

[@markwalker4485]

Too funny guys👍🤪🤣😂👍

[@alexanderhanooman]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 nice one

[@Kommiekiller]

Orcs can get HB1 visas tho, unfortunately

[@NarbsTheGreat]

Orc FC: Luv me killin Luv me pillagin Luv me plunderin Simple as

[@Duckmanman]

Krumpin' time.

[@RolandoRatas]

Luv me DEI

[@kodypolitza8844]

Luv me grog Ate humies Ate knife ears

[@thosko98]

'Ate humans, 'ate elves. Not racis', just don't like 'em.

[@wojak-sensei6424]

Thing is, Orcs have been traditionally evil, malevolent, and war-like in nature, but that's the reason we love them. Fantasy, after all, is all about finding fun in the supernatural and mystical. Ironically, the "sympathetic Orc" just makes them more boring. They're just humans now with different looks. Same with elves and dwarves and halflings. Everybody is just humans now and it's less fun to roleplay as the same exact thing.

[@Cyberguy64]

You can't have evil in your fiction. You might offend someone evil in real life.

[@techpriest6962]

Unless it is kings, cults, and nobility according to the left. Those can be evil.

[@5poopy]

True. It's actually the GOOD people who are evil. Especially the white characters.

[@GruntoSkunko]

There is no such thing as "evil" in real life.

[@jakub_paints6775]

@@GruntoSkunko there absolutely is my man

[@Notachupacabra]

@@GruntoSkunko You live in a very small and protected room if you think that.

[@Pulmonox]

They refuse to believe that intelligent creatures cannot be reasoned with. ...unless you're a conservative.

[@GreyhawkTheAngry]

Yeah, that's the major flaw in Sargon's analysis; the Progressive's inherent prejudice against anyone they see as being "Rightwing" (regardless of it actually being true) and, as such, can be declared irredeemable istaphobes and Yahtzees. There's still an enormous amount of truth to what Sargon's said about how Progressives think, especially that part about they would rather change reality than change their minds, that part is huge. But I think there's some further details to hash out, the primary one being that a lot of people actually don't count to them.

[@DragonZenith]

Unfortunately this is pretty easy to explain. Progressive philosophy equates rationality with personhood, and since the progressive sees their own belief system as self-evidently rational, all persons - as rational agents - will inevitably come around to their own way of thinking. Anybody who refuses however, is clearly not a rational agent capable of reason, and, therefore... Is not a person.

[@Pulmonox]

@DragonZenith The reason they can't exhibit this kind of reasoning towards races of fantasy because their fantasy involves everyone and everything being treated and accepted as equal, equivalent, and equitable, locked in to one another via their worldview. The unfortunate part is they can't accept the reality and prefer instead to live in the fantasy and are desperately attempting to create that fantasy out of reality. This, of course, means straight up walling anyone and anything that diverges from that fantasy.

[@Sakhmeov]

"A creature of sapient intelligence, yet totally amoral and for all their temporary and immediate responses, wants and talk, ultimately driven only by hedonism, avarice and anger, which can only be depended on to opportunistically grab for any advantage they can for themselves or do whatever harm they believe themselves able to get away with to any perceived opponent or competitor." Protip: The "blacks and latinos" thing is a smokescreen. There's someone else, entirely closer to home, getting offended by what Orcs are depicted as, and how that is correctly identified as Always Chaotic Evil... The only difference is method. Social terrorism and common-tragedism, rather than direct violence. But the motivations are the same, and so morally equivalent...

[@Makaneek5060]

​@@DragonZenith dogshit epistemology, even the CCP is less wasteful of brain activity.

[@St.IsaacOfSyria]

"We can't have orcs in fiction, because it offends us *on behalf* of the orcs in real life"

[@windrider970]

Birmingham is orc country

[@AlexAlex-zt3hi]

@@windrider970 how dare you? are you discriminating the rest of europe?

[@IbnRushd-mv3fp]

Get orc'd noob

[@barahng]

To be fair that bit about "all worldly goods inherently belong to the orcs and everyone else just stole it" reminds me of a specific real life group.

[@r.folkefiende]

​@@windrider970100%

[@Lyrikle]

I'm reminded of a King of the Hill quote, "you're not making christianity cooler, you're just making rock and roll worse."

[@jerubaal101]

But that points to the inherent silliness of rock and roll.

[@freespeechenjoyer]

Hank Hill is a wise man.

[@anthonyreed480]

Creed had bangers and I don't care what you or anyone says. Don't @ me. If you have a son and don't tear up at "Arms Wide Open" then you're an emotionless psycho.

[@WAAAAAAGH]

They were defeated not through a righteous crusade of vengeance, not through to toppling of their evil gods, not through the triumph of good over evil, but through the striking of a pen by committee. What a miserable farce of a company and setting.

[@roccosoldi8678]

I see Orky Waaaaaaaaaaaagh! I press like!

[@Duckmanman]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH

[@treyjordan3168]

You get My Like for 2 Reasons: 1) The Orky Name, because the Orks are fun, and 2) You are spitting straight Facts

[@alephniguroth7105]

waaaaaaaaaaagh!!!!

[@captainplanet7286]

2 many big wordz for me to reed dere boss, WAAAAAAAGH

[@brianuseremi3626]

Can't wait until Mind Flayers are 'just like us'.

[@Dreamhaxor]

Isn't this Baldur's Gate 3? "Some Mind Flayers are just misunderstood and you should become an octopus face". I could be wrong, barely remember anything past act 1.

[@auraguard0212]

Already done.

[@rylion2770]

That’s what the mind flayers want you to think!!!

[@shadowrider7072]

@@Dreamhaxor Spoiler warning for those that haven't played BG3: Turns out that Mind Flayer was just playing you. At the end of the day, it's still evil in that it only cares about it's own goals and you are just an obstacle. If you or your party becomes one, it's hinted in the prologue that you are starting to see your friends as nothing more than brain snacks and it's probably just a matter of time before going full brain-eater.

[@joshtiscareno1312]

Zoidberg was the camel's nose under the tent.

[@luxie8097]

They've done the same to Drow and Tieflings too. Can't have evil anymore, everyone is just has to be misunderstood.

[@BurghezulDjentilom]

they've done way worse to the drow bro.

[@staceygram5555]

​@@BurghezulDjentilom Care to elaborate?

[@monk3110]

I feel like ppl getting hung up on drow makes sense cuz they are elves, a race explicitly shown to be “human” most of the time. Tiefling having demon biology makes sense but I don’t remember them or aasimar having to be good or evil. You could play them in 3.5 with a lvl adjustment.

[@christiankalinkina239]

​@@BurghezulDjentilomdrows are at least somewhat evil tieflings are shown has good for some reason

[@rhircyn]

If I ever get back to playing DnD, I'll stick to 3.5 as it seemed to modernize the game and make it feel a bit more like a game where the hero upgrades stats.. Hell, I thought 3.0 was a great step forward and it was. 3.5 just made it better. It made sense. These activists can do what they want. They will find out they will be unemployed in short enough order. Let them fuck around and they will find out.

[@JoTheVeteran]

Trying to explain to the ideologically possessed anything is a waste of time. Their mind will only change when their ideology endagers their own life. -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

[@TheMaleRei]

And even then... Perhaps not...

[@glideronthemoon]

This Solhzenitsyn fella seems to be on the mark. I wonder if he was right about anything else.

[@matthewbeddall7182]

I recall solzhenitsyn saying that many of the menshiviks and bolsheviks said they deserved to be in prison. It isn't even a certainty when the ideology comes for them.

[@goskiing1410]

Another Couple of Years to go then... Then watch those Liberal Women come running to the Right; just as they have done in Germany.

[@JoTheVeteran]

@@matthewbeddall7182 sure they did. Because they had hope the party made a mistake, or they did. They were brainwashed. Death, or fear for it breaks the conditioning.

[@usetoothless9473]

This is similar to people losing their minds over the depictions of demons in Frieren. I adored how that show leaned into the notion that the monsters are monsters and sympathy for them is both dangerous and inherently wrong. It surprised me (pleasantly) to see the show side with the old and wise character who sees through the deception of the monster. Who knows from experience that all demons are always evil and there is never an exception. It was a refreshingly classic take on evil in fiction; a take that surprised me after such a huge swing in the media to try and be subversive and sympathetic to beings who look and act evil.

[@windrider970]

They called Frieren antisemitic for its depiction of demons as unredeemable schemers and deceivers. Evil always recognises itself.

[@bitharne]

Probably why the show is so loved and doing so well. Morally gray stuff can be infesting…but sometimes certain groups and ideas and just evil full stop and we need to acknowledge that reality.

[@sik3xploit]

They seem to relate often to entities with violent or wicked tendencies. There is even a noticeable pattern in their own written stories where the protagonist turns out incredibly unlikable while the antagonist seems to be more of an underdog you would support.

[@barahng]

That first little arc with the demons is when I knew Frieren was god tier. They do a great job illustrating why you can't trust demons. Its in their very nature to deceive and kill, no matter how friendly they may present themselves. In fact, they cynically take advantage of the natural human instinct towards altruism. Sound familiar? A timely reminder about men in nice suits with slick words trying to sell you a load of BS. The Gavin Newsom archetype.

[@enigmaodell6806]

“The descendants of monsters who mimicked the sounds of a cry for help” Is such a neat concept

[@Hypnotically_Caucasian]

*ORK LIVES MATTAH* *WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHHHHHHH*

[@bartsanders1553]

Orkanda Forever!

[@aaronwilson311]

Clearly not an ork. Orks do not not value the lives of orks lol

[@khylerbane4523]

But if there are no orkz, whoz gonna go on the Waagh?

[@Pipskella]

I remember complaining about this years ago. Essentially how every “lineage” will eventually become “funny blue human with gills” or “funny green human with big teeth” They might as well be the grey blob people from that one Fairly Odd Parents episode.

[@siamihari8717]

hello Mr.Hammer, I see you need not be introduced to Mr.Nail

[@PeterDanielBerg]

fungible people

[@HypnoChode74]

From what I’ve seen in 6th Ed it seems like they actually followed the grey blob idea.

[@namethefifth7315]

and the oversimplification of every single race in the new edition; removing half-races and subraces and removing special features such with lizardfolk and kobolds in motmv, and moving stat increases to background rather then race. every edition the races become more similar and before you know it 6e is going to only have humans and they are just going to say "just reflavor it to who you want"

[@fnord4960]

I will never forgive Extra Credits for their orc video.

[@TheMaleRei]

EC lost the plot a long time ago...

[@bluecoin3771]

They are the true anti-orc racists.

[@HandsomeSquidward-q7g]

@@TheMaleRei I got that same impression quite some time ago. And something about their narrator's snarky upbeat tone always grates at my nerves to the point where I have to turn the video off despite liking some of the content.

[@heronoverdose]

You got to realise that the content was always shit it was just presented well.

[@chubbyninja89]

@@TheMaleRei No, I think that it was the newer host who lost it, as the older hosts mostly just stuck to talking about gaming and such.

[@Unpainted_Huffhines]

Orcs began to hit a little too close to contemporary real-life events, so they had to go, lest anyone else start to notice.

[@covertcounsellor6797]

I think so. I wonder if Orcs are permitted to eat pork or shellfish?

[@torreyjones4421]

@@covertcounsellor6797 I think it's more a question of how orcs would feel about black lotus overdose victims and them being responsible for 50% of all raids on villages.

[@shanegreen9511]

17% of the population of the Underdark committing 50% of the violent crimes in the Underdark? The numbers don't lie

[@marvalice3455]

​@@torreyjones4421 it's both. Orcs aren't a stand in for an ethnicity, they are stand in for any person who acts in an evil way. They are just as much the vandel pointlessly wrecking a store, as they are the shortsighted industrialist burning down a forest, or a murder who kills just to feel powerful. Of course they see the ork in themselves. Because the orc is in all of us. The left doesn't believe in growing more virtuous, so when they see vice condemned, they seem themselves condemned

[@VincitOmniaVeritas7]

@@shanegreen9511*13%

[@scoobie331]

Gary Gigax is spinning in His grave so fast that there is an audible whirr.

[@Richforce1]

We could wrap the grave in copper, put a magnet next to it and power the entire Midwest.

[@treyjordan3168]

He sounds like a Turbine Engine He's spinning so fast

[@aaronwilson311]

Gary Gygax was pretty bonkers and is why D&D exists but he's definitely not why any version of it is good. This dumb shit they're doing with races in D&D is still dumb shit, but like, Gary Gygax has done much worse things to D&D.

[@historicmystery691]

We can harness him for cheaper power

[@CorundumDevil]

The people trying to tell D&D players whatfor: *"Gary who?"*

[@kathrineici9811]

Orcs is orks. Orks is not bl ack humies. Orks is not mex ican humies. Orks is not humies at all.

[@mathewgurney2033]

Orks is, vegetables.

[@bitharne]

⁠@@mathewgurney2033fungi isn’t vegetable

[@windrider970]

Orks are not orcs either

[@l-x-10]

Orks is best

[@Borderose]

Humies just ain't logical, bois.

[@serarthurdayne9490]

It’s mental how offensive and racist this is. WotC are basically saying “black people are unintelligent, savage brutes so we can’t have a faction in our game that resembles them.” It’s wild when you think about it.

[@newusernamehere4772]

@@serarthurdayne9490 woke stuff in general is the most racist philosophy possible. Like "anyone that isn't a straight white male is incapable of making rational decisions so they need to be forgiven for any and all acts all the time"

[@kodypolitza8844]

90 percent of current ideologues are just projecting their subconscious onto the media around them

[@NukeCloudstalker]

Well... maybe they've got a point on the comparison, at a sufficient level of abstraction. But damnit, that's no reason to remove them as monsters.

[@Mlai00]

Woke leftists are racists who point fingers at everyone else as racist. The 1st question in my head was "Why do your orcs look Mexican? Why aren't they Danish and wearing clogs? Original orcs resembled no human culture in real life, but you changed them to look Mexican?"

[@JohnW-sy1eo]

I'm just surprised they only did it for orcs: if orcs ate black people, what are elves and dwarves then? I mean, halflings are *obviously* Asians, i mean, duh. And gnomes are clearly aboriginal Australians, the similarities just can't be ignored. But what does that make elves? French? And what are dwarves? Native American Indians?

[@nobody2021]

it's weird how anyone could look at orcs and say "hey this is an offensive caricature of me". even weirder when they look at someone else and say that on their behalf

[@Sorain1]

Those who claim it a caricature at least show some self awareness. Those who claim it a caricature of others? Display their own racism.

[@OniGanon]

Remember guys: comparing a real group of people to orcs and saying 'this reminds me of them!' is somehow not racist.

[@reigoj8228]

@@OniGanon and the real Life group they are based off of are... Barbarians. It's nice that they have self awarness tho.

[@towermonkey5563]

​@@OniGanonduh, it's called pattern recognition.

[@Crablover132]

Almost like they’re the racists and only project it onto us

[@markedfang]

There is no moral query about the Orc. The Orc is a fictional creature, born in evil, raised in evil and slain in justice. The people that struggle with these concepts are the same that will argue you are evil for being able to enjoy the premise of a game and therefore need to have our human rights revoked. It's one of those days I wish I was kidding.

[@titanomachy2217]

The only true principle of the far left is inversion.

[@marvalice3455]

@@markedfang i don't think you understand the goal of the progs. Their goal is to irridicate all trace of notions they believe to be backwards or irrational. It doesn't matter that works are fictional. Their mere existence as an idea is sufficient to make them a target. The progs aren't looking to stick a flag on a country, they want to dominate your mind itself.

[@jakub_paints6775]

The problem is not the orks, but the people doing this to the male dominated hobbies.

[@windrider970]

The goblin banking cartel

[@torreyjones4421]

@@windrider970 Sadly they raise hell about the goblins too, and dwarves. Lot of people hate them both for having influences from a certain group which I think says more about the haters than the races themselves. Also steampunk mafia goblins for the win.

[@jakub_paints6775]

@windrider970 I don't think so

[@N0sf3r4tuR1s3n]

​@@torreyjones4421"steampunk Mafia goblins" that sounds like a great setting for a story

[@aaronwilson311]

The women largely think this is bonkers too, don't implicitly lump them in with this nonsense lol

[@kitkakitteh]

Tolkien’s orcs were created, not born. Created of defiled elves, not babies.

[@vulpesinculta9578]

But Tolkien also spoke that they relroduced the way men do.

[@iliasmastoris529]

​@@vulpesinculta9578Created in mockery of Elves, not the image of Illuvatar.

[@kimmogensen4888]

⁠@@vulpesinculta9578what book was that in? No so not canon. Must be like a thousand woke people who play something with only one faction, no reason to play a fantasy game without different factions with different abilities, they should just make a new game with woke v heretics ,conservatives, deplorable, Ultra MAGA, racist, regressive, fake phobias, DOGE, Big Balls, at least in the real world they have some creative ability for making up stories about the bad guys, and smears, would be cringe but ten times better than what they are doing with the D and D IP, and maybe now the USA grift, nepotism, corruption is coming to an end focus on Norway for free money to games that are not going to sell.

[@kdog3908]

"Brother, get the flamer. The HEAVY flamer."

[@sassafrassanid5718]

Funnily enough, a bunch of flamers are responsible for this mess

[@vorynrosethorn903]

Someone who empathises with evil confesses their own heart.

[@pablom-f8762]

If aliens ever show up, those kind of people are going to be the first ones to betray humanity.

[@techpriest6962]

@@vorynrosethorn903 That's the truth, and it is always far too obvious.

[@tsukasa67]

I think its more than that. I think its a cry for help. Yes, they confess their own heart, but at the same time they subconsciously recognizes that this is what they're doing. They know their own evil and deep, deep down they don't like it. So they do thinks like make misunderstood villain after misunderstood villain or nonsensical redemption arcs or the elimination of evil races with hyper fixations on how they aren't so bad or are people just like everyone else. They're looking for redemption and salvation from their plight. It saddens my heart that in trying to attain that they purposefully close themselves off from it by pretending evil doesn't exist and there's no such thing as good.

[@Bronasaxon]

Hopefully with out USAID giving them money (along with others) we will see this stuff coming to an end.

[@CheeseOfMasters]

EU sadly is still around.

[@Crowbar6006]

American orthodoxy. Digging that profile picture my brother in Christ.

[@barahng]

Also the massive shift the cultural zeitgeist has taken is going to make this stuff more and more unpopular, more than it already is. I don't want to get too optimistic but it's looking like we're winning on every front.

[@dylanbuchanan6511]

Why the fuck does our government fund money to change people’s DnD campaign? I mean, you made that up, right? That’s not real, that’s just a South Park episode, right?

[@InternetHydra]

Well that’s usa foreign “aid”, but what about the ultra rich globalist elites? Who’s going to crack down on them?

[@BaronVonVoodoo]

Soyjack: "We changed Orcs because it was a racist caricature of black people!" Black dude: "You think I look like an Orc?"

[@lekhaclam87]

Now they are just Mexican stereotypes.

[@MRMcLean98]

Fuck what Wizards of the Coast will say, I will make my orcs as evil as I want. Dungeon Masters, do your thing! They hold no power over you!

[@zanitzeuken]

They're not after you, Skip. They're after the kiddos that will be playing when you're gone.

[@hilotakenaka]

A recent one: in new D&D, they’re changing the lore of liches because they think Jews would be offended that the lich’s source of immortality is called a phylactery

[@Noperare]

I thought Lichenstein was a country

[@kaotoko4251]

​@Noperare Apparently it is, bordered by Egypt, Jordan and Syria.

[@subbyplayz6332]

Oy vey, shut it all down!

[@Theranthrope]

Except the use of a phylactery as a protective ward by pre-Christian pagan Europeans pre-dates the Yiddish appropriation of both the term and practice by Polish Jews. To the left; the world begins in the 1880's.

[@HypnoChode74]

Remember if the juice get offended it’s usually something true or based on something similar.

[@johndoh795]

They can't account for reason according to their paradigm. They hate orcs because they see themselves in them.

[@SnakeWasRight]

Reason is just a matter of opinion to them, until they feel like using words like science to brow beat people they don't like.

[@zanitzeuken]

Nah, their world view topples the second they admit a thinking entity will choose to be evil or is inherently evil.

[@Zundfolge]

I wish I knew where my old D&D and AD&D manuals were because I expect old manuals will become somewhat valuable in the future.

[@Jwpolk2]

You ought to check out the Frieren controversy, Carl. It's a very similar issue and exposes progressive suicidal empathy.

[@monk3110]

I actually think it’s a deeply Christian notion and desire to see things redeemed actually

[@KelebMoonDancer]

@@monk3110 Im gonna go ahead and say Christians would go full crusade mode if you said the word "demon" and "alive" in the same sentence. But thats just me.

[@Jwpolk2]

@@monk3110 literal demons might be an exception there.

[@TheBerryChocolate]

​@@monk3110it's a perversion if Christianity. Because in Christianity you are redeemed by the father, the son and the holy Spirit. Not by men. Also Jesus preached rightful justice and punishment.

[@GrubSlime]

What's funny about that is it's because they see the demons as attractive. If they were all ugly they wouldn't care but here's the bit that begs why they side with the demons. From what we've learned in that world, is that when a demon kills a humanoid they can take their skin and wear it for themselves. That means all the humanoid demons killed the people that are their humanoid form. They don't see morality as we do and see us as nothing more than cattle to be killed without care and that view point can't be changed for them. Yet they side with the demons who are proven to kill humans via manipulation and magic, uncaring of their actions to the feelings of a human. Only using deception such as begging for mercy, help or emotion of fear for self preservation. The second the threat is gone they go right back to their actions of evil. They hate Frieren because she doesn't fall for the deception as she knows their true nature. Perhaps they see themselves in the demons and their tactics of manipulation.

[@panzer00]

Knights must slay dragons. Remember, they wanted to close D&D and force everyone to play by their rules.

[@sabrewolf89]

Depends on your concept of what a dragon is.

[@panzer00]

@sabrewolf89 the Arthurian type.

[@marvalice3455]

@@sabrewolf89 the dragon is a symbol of the devil. "Monster" comes from the same root as "demonstrate". A "monster" is a being who exists to prove a point. Dragons are not nearly as diverse as many would lead you to think. They are a monstrous serpent who offers knowledge, riches, and swift death. Everything else is just how different cultures react to such an offer.

[@PJDAltamirus0425]

@@panzer00 ......... Dnd had good and evil dragons since 2nd edition, that isn't new like.. at all. Hell, mythology has good dragons..... Just look up what the japanese and Chinese concepts of dragons are. That isn't anything Dnd invented. Hence the classififcation of Chromatic, Metallic, gem dragons and LG and CE dragon dieties with the categories have different alignments , powers and environments. They aren't the only one to do this either. Shenron in DBZ is a good guy.

[@panzer00]

@PJDAltamirus0425 youre missing the point.

[@dimitriimanbaew621]

"Looks like carne's back on the menu, niños!"

[@jamesstaggs4160]

It's amazing how these people manage to worn their way into everything and proceed to ruin everything they touch. It's actually rather impressive.

[@bluesandman7566]

This is what happens when you don't gatekeep.

[@villefere6968]

All of this because we sided with the wrong side in WW2

[@47Lancelot]

We ll see what d happen in the post USAID world

[@IIISWILIII]

They are ideological Orcs.

[@wun1gee]

I want to see Sargon break down the 'debate' with Frieren's demons. After the bugs and the orcs, that would be amazing.

[@Sinhsseax]

Yeah, demons in that setting are the perfect example for this debate. Why does the humanoid monster speak with you, reason with you? Well, because it wants to eat you of course! It will trick specifically those that are too naive to not immediately take it out and who have too much compassion.

[@tired_and_stressed]

You only see them as orcs. I see them as doctors, engineers, teachers...

[@Capsuleer7]

I've always made my evil races in any RPG I run operate off their own consistent internal logic, morals, and ethics. The orcs in my setting, save those raised in civilization, tend to be highly tribal and clannish - adhering to a a simple brutal philosophy shaped by their way of life in the hash environs they call home. The strong survive and the stronger the tribe, the better the survival for them all. They operate on survival at almost all costs for them including murder, theft, and other such savage ideals. In my settings, if you wish to know an orc you must fight them and prove yourself the fittest and strongest. Talk means nothing because words are made of so much intangible stuff, actions mean little for the same reason - anyone can act and attempt to do a thing. But results? That is solid proof and proof that must be fought for and kept like a prized trophy. If you come across an orc and want to live you must fight for it. You wish to keep you home, people, and possessions? Fight. Prove your worthy of keeping them, or prove they are worthy for taking them by dying. I've had players, especially in my 10 year long campaign, become enamored by the savage life due to their encounters with my orcs. Because the savage races in my settings act as the constant threat that civilizations must remain vigilant against. The walls must be worked on, armies trained, and the peace of the land kept through constant effort and struggle against the barbarians just beyond the tree line. When you slip, get a ruler either to dismissive or naïve, or a leader arrogantly bloodthirsty for their own good - then the savage men come in their hordes to punish and correct.

[@violenceislife1987]

Excellent

[@monk3110]

They can work but sometimes it’s makes the race less interesting but maybe the told better. For instance lizard men are not capable of morality and are lot biological capable of empathy. They are just hyper smart “animals” but that’s easier to do with neutral.

[@monk3110]

While it’s inherently gross.. the real way to make an evil race is to make something inherently evil in what they are. Goblin Slayer did this. Even if goblins weren’t assholes, they are, but they breed in the most vicious parasitic manner and there is nothing that can be done with that and what inherent view of other mammals does that give them??

[@monk3110]

The real way to make an evil creature is to make something physically inherently evil. YT censoring me but basically goblin slayer did this. Even if goblins were not butt munches the way they make more makes them vile and what inherent view of other creatures would that give them

[@papadoug4681]

It is also why i often like using Lamashtu and Gnolls in my Pathfinder games. Not just from the gross ideas of finding the monstrous beautiful. But there is the aspect of the all consuming mother in Lamashtu. The idea of "No no that quirk of yours is not wrong. Everyone else should just accept it. In fact. It isn't even a quirk or something wrong. It's beautiful." Only it's that turned up to 11

[@speakupriseup4549]

Starmer loves Orcs more than humans

[@benmccoy6417]

Evil cannot create anything new, only destroy or corrupt that which already exists.

[@jonlannister345]

Sargon was so many people's introduction to actual reality. Good to see the subs climbing up to 1 mil after the dead era

[@smartalec2001]

Monsters are the dark unconscious shadows of ourselves. Orcs are the impulse towards brutishness and savagery in all of us. Same as the Drow and cruelty, Dragons and greed etc. That's what fighting monsters is all about, fighting our own evils given form.

[@somerandomnesspoo8467]

The thing is they were only inclined towards evil, the characters that broke the alignment of their race were inherently interesting if you pulled it off. Good half-orcs often were the best characters. It was in no way necessary to remove the alignment to break alignment outside the supernatural races.

[@ZedRen-s8g]

This is why Drizzt Do'Urden as an example and archetype that has literally stuck with people to this day. But I also have the notion this sympathy for him, and for Half-Orcs is where this current problem with ideologues was seeded and grown from.

[@PJDAltamirus0425]

Also, plot hook for very tragic and interesting stories, a good orc than has evil urges trying desperately to change the violent , savage, evil culture of his people, having to fight his own kind.

[@ZedRen-s8g]

@ PJD, Site removed the tag. A struggle Drizzt had early on. He even faltered against family members from his own Drow Noble House, even when they were in the process of trying to "Minecraft" him or capture him to do far worse things to him after he went renegade. Newer editions remove his Barbarian levels where he lived in the Underdark mostly alone, and had developed what we would consider monstrous behaviors just to survive in a hostile environment.

[@OliveOilFan]

This also happened to WoW with their orcs. The lore of the game had them corrupted by demons blood and became warlike to trying to amend for their behaviors but still proud of their heritage and war skills, to being neutered and basically being pawns for the alliance. Now a lot of the liberalized millennial Fanbase doesn’t even want the two sides to fight bc it’s mean or whatever. How sad

[@williamking7800]

This, except moreso. To me it's obvious that Wizards of the Coast is following after a previously woke-ified market of former WoW players with the orc retcon, and NOT just doing this purely for activism purposes. The gamer-culture concept of the orc bifurcated from the Tolkien orc two whole decades ago, ever since Thrall became a thing in July 2002.

[@monk3110]

I mean the factions getting over it could be a story arc if done right. Unless they fight because of inherent differences maybe… Idk who they’d fight but idk WOW really

[@augustday9483]

I can't be the only one that noticed that WoW orcs started being shown with brown skin instead of green after they began retconning them into "noble shamans". Grommash Hellscream yelling "we will never be slaves!" in front of an army of brown-skinned orcs in the Warlords of Draenor expansion cinematic was the first time I consciously noticed this shift. It's obvious what sort of real world imagery they're trying to evoke here.

[@hawkticus_history_corner]

I liked WoW Orcs as an alternative to Tolkien style Orcs. They are still brutal and savage, but there's a tragedy to them about what they were used for and a nobility to them trying to turn that savagery to something good. Its actually interesting storytelling instead of the new Orcs which are... humans with weird teeth.

[@barahng]

​​@@augustday9483To be fair, that's an old lore thing from way before this woke stuff started. The Draenor orcs WERE brown skinned before they got corrupted. Mannoroth's blood is what makes them green. Which is why in TBC way back in 2006, you meet the uncorrupted Mag'har orcs in Outland, who are still brown skinned. Thus was back when Blizz was doing it just to distinguish their orcs from Tolkein and DnD orcs. They did the same thing with trolls by making them a fusion of Caribbean and pre-Colombian mesoamerican cultures. Which I'm surprised has not been totally retconned by now.

[@sethman4095]

Wild how they just decided to make them that way in one edition. I have Volo's Guide to Monsters, a 5E supplimental book, and it talks about them doing all sorts of wanton destruction and pillaging. The closest thing to "They're not all savages" is it being said they don't wantonly slaughter humans because if they let humans rebuild, they can come back and steal again. But they desire to kill elves, and covet the homes of dwarves. But next edition, nope, they're completely normal people.

[@SomeCanine]

Despite being 13% of the racial makeup of Dungeons & Dragons...

[@Xqvvzts]

Green Lives Matter

[@randysavage1]

Orcs aren't one color. Including in lord of the rings. I. The book orcs/ goblins have sallow skin. Grey, white, or yellow orange. We think of them as green. Look at the criminals in your country. Lots of all colors Being racial doesn't make you smart

[@xxxlonewolf49]

Lol except they were never a d&d "black person". That was always ignorant projection by racists.

[@t8kabr8km85]

Orcs make up 53% of party encounters

[@sirgamer44]

A golden example of DEI inventing a social issue and selling the solution which as a shocker only created more issues.

[@bluecoin3771]

Couldn’t have described it better myself.

[@submachinegun5737]

These people get paid to “solve” these problems so no surprise they make up more fake ones to try and ruin

[@zanitzeuken]

print your own money!

[@zachpulido5972]

They don’t realize that renaming them “species” means that the different creatures should be even more unique and differentiated from each other.

[@DeadGamesSociety]

You are 100% correct. Species is Humans vs. Cats, not Anglos vs. Mandinka.

[@bgcvetan]

"Orcs are human" - that's it out through the door with you.

[@Zophas]

Be careful not to be so open minded that your brain falls out.

[@electivetoast6897]

This whole row started because someone looked at Orcs and said, "Hey! How dare you portray Black people that way!"

[@Northern_Woodlander]

I remember that. It started by some idiot in a tweet

[@dongsolong9032]

The progressive be projecting

[@Zavyyn]

As a goblin, I am offended at the preferential treatment provided to the orcs. This is outrageous, and I shall be writing a sternly worded letter to my goblin witch doctor.

[@baddgerpaw]

Green skin mains rise up

[@jpteknoman]

This explanation of their worldview puts another situation into context. Remember the controversy about the first episode of Goblin Slayer? I guess the real outrage was not about what the goblins did to the girls but about how the author dared depict goblins as evil and not as misunderstood people who just want to breed.

[@jedidethfreak]

Just to reiterate how new this is, that description of orcs from 3.5 was what I was playing as the current edition 15 years ago

[@Overlordough1201]

These are the people who would be on that one skyscraper in Independence Day when the aliens first arrive

[@gasmonkey1000]

I mean theres been the "Orc Baby Dilemma" for decades. But it does remove a lot of the edge, especially when in the older lore and editions the good orcs are now less interesting. It's less magical now to find village of pacifistic orcs, it's less badass now to play a good orc, because before those orcs by becoming good had conquered themselves and become truly free. Now? Finding a good orc is about as magical as watching the news. Nevermind what it means for half-orcs. Before there was always a question of the nature of their conception, before it was almost a coin toss if they'd be good or evil. Now? Half-orcs are less seen as, at best, the children of serial killers and more seen as the son of a mixed couple. The magic is gone, sacrificed on the altar of diversity and tolerance

[@TheOffizier]

What about the antichrist baby?

[@ZedRen-s8g]

God I remembered Spoony coining this all the way back in Counter Monkey. I hate to say it, but rewatching some of it recently, I realized some things were unintentionally prophetic of how worse it would get.

[@gasmonkey1000]

@@ZedRen-s8g Oh yeah, Spoony. Damn that man spiralled.

[@gasmonkey1000]

@@TheOffizier I'm a tad drunk while writing this but ya just reminded me of the Omen movies. But yeah it's that whole dilemma of fate. Cause the Bible says that fate doesn't exist, and the whole thing about the sins of the father. One could try to raise the kid in question to be good. And in some stories it works, and others the kid still goes full evil like Archaon. But like I said, the good orc would be an exception and a testament of sheer willpower and discipline

[@ZedRen-s8g]

@ gasmonkey, Site removed the tag. He did, *hard*. His experiences that he shared has foreshadowed where Larp and Society play are at today. He also was right about players being coddled more and more. Now the rules cement it.

[@hariseldon3786]

... and that is why we ignore them and just carry on gaming without their guidance...

[@Djrealfake]

They couldn't get people to buy this exact same story in the Warhammer community so I guess now they break D&D.

[@DaturaReapicusJones]

Let's not joke ourselves, these people don't actually have friends, they are too sociopathic

[@JesusFollower500]

Thankfully by the very nature of dungeons and dragons every campaign, every setting, every session is decentralized from the established actions and lore wizards of the coast. The vast majority of people who aren’t woke shills will continue to run campaigns where orcs are orcs, including myself. Happy to see Sargon talk about dnd, he should bring up next how they changed races to species.

[@Shin_Mothra]

You don't even really have to pay for DnD.

[@tsukasa67]

Thing is, how do you find those groups?

[@bigdiccmarty9335]

​@@tsukasa67talk to people at nerd stores You may find some there Hopefully you can make friends

[@ZedRen-s8g]

Gatekeep your own group tables. These people gatekeep the official play from positions within the companies by putting it into the rules for society play. Whether you buy PDFs, sail the seas of the Internet, or hunt for secondhand copies. Do what you can to deny support for this.

[@TheMaleRei]

Waiting for Adam & Sitch to shriek: "Why u quote books?!"

[@glideronthemoon]

Insufferable and insufferabler.

[@tsukasa67]

Lol, don't worry. Quoting books is fine so long as its the last book Adam read, aka the TRUTH.

[@nuyabuisness7526]

My current DND campaign has had villains of all types in it. I personally don't mind Orcs being made a little bit more nuanced, but they are still orcs. Current plotline has an ongoing civil war between orc tribes on an island chain nominally under the control of the major empire in the region. Some tribes have allied with the empire out of pragmatism, some haven't in favor of sticking to the old ways. It allows for a lot of narrative power while still allowing the setting to have orcs motivated purely by domination and conquest.

[@ZedRen-s8g]

I like the Mystaran Orcs, where while Tribal demi-humans with actual pig faces with the war like tribal culture, each breed of Orc from different geographic locations developed off shoot ideas, tactics, strategies, and cultural beliefs to adapt to their surroundings and fight the civilized culture closest to them. They even develop different physiology from the living in said different environment.

[@DarknessProphet]

"For example, thou shalt not steal, is indeed a rule that all could agree with." So about taxation...

[@bearistotle2820]

Not just that. Every thief has some justification, such as "they are rich" or "I need it more than the other person". No code of ethics exists based on our rationality.

[@jabrwok]

While most (all?) societies have rules against theft from others within the society, historically and pre-historically, stealing from outsiders was fine and dandy. Morally laudable even.

[@woahhbro2906]

Why do we let these people decide what we should think? Do not let them define what is normal.

[@GD0nly]

1) It is sapient 2) It is Evil 3) It therefore chooses to be evil Therefore, it can choose to be good, it just has to be convinced, and once I make my arguments, it WILL choose goodness. If it does not, it must be destroyed. That is the flowchart for wokeness.

[@Sorain1]

Funny, that was the flowchart of a 'Lawful Stupid' Paladin I wrote a while back, just more efficiently written.

[@arthurgoonie4596]

The orc on the thumbnail litterally carved out his own eye to see the future saw himself conquering without his father then murderd his father and took control of the clan.

[@auraguard0212]

Isn't that Odin's story?

[@arthurgoonie4596]

@auraguard0212 probably world of warcraft is famous for repurposing litterally everything.

[@Swagnesium1]

"I don't care what the orks voted for" -Gandalf

[@freestylebagua]

Orcs have been made into the Ubermensch, LOL! The time of the Orc has truly come.

[@bigdiccmarty9335]

Literal endtimes type beat

[@Lornext]

These are the kind of people who would sacrifice humanity and work against humanity if an alien race was to invade earth.

[@SEKreiver]

The fantasy author, Scott Oden, considers the orc his "spirit animal". Buy accordingly.

[@robotdude2206]

The other thing I hate about the removal of biological essentialism factors is that it has reduced the roleplay potential for social encounters. When a race's stat modifiers are predetermined, it means that certain classes are better suited for certain types of creatures, such as halflings being better suited for rogues or half-orcs being better suited for barbarians. But it also means that it can be very rewarding to play a creature embracing a class they're not ideally suited for. There's a lot of roleplay potential with a dwarf monk or a gnome paladin, both from social encounters and from the self-imposed challenge of playing a sub-optimal character. Ironic how the side that preaches "diversity is our strength" is doing everything they can to eliminate all differences between people.

[@pablobronstein1247]

Only difference between races in 5e is: does it have dark vision, is it resistant to certain elemental damage, does it get a checkmark on a skill.

[@Sorain1]

Now that is a profound bit of wisdom I'd not encountered before. "All heroism is in some way qualified by the knowledge that the issue cannot actually be talked out, and that the issue would have to be resolved in a fight to the death." I'll remember that forever I think. That is a damn good guideline for writing for stories and campaigns.

[@CommissarDan]

It's interesting, to see this alien thought process in humans. Like how a cow on a train track is watching the train approach, not understanding what is about to happen.

[@jannguerrero]

The Hayao Miyazaki school of storytelling: "no one is really evil"

[@bluesandman7566]

At least Miyazaki knew how to make money with his storytelling.

[@jannguerrero]

@bluesandman7566 he was distracting people with genuinely good art that the moral vacuity of his "things just happened, omg let's protect the environment, war bad" narrative gets ignored. You can imagine the soyjack faces pointing at literal Oregon in cartoon form, and a wall of text adoring the 60's liberal Japanese boomer talking points.

[@bluesandman7566]

@ Also, Yubaba from Spirited Away seemed pretty evil.

[@Magic-gt4pl]

"Hey! I resemble that remark."

[@safety_doggo2]

I mean, Orcs are what we call the Russians, no?

[@byzantion1683]

@@safety_doggo2 it's what liberals call the Russians. It's a shame their entire thing is "I can't be racist" otherwise you can imagine what I'd be calling them. Ofc they're also famous for double standards which I guess explains why they can call Russians Orcs but Orcs can't be Orcs.

[@C_0_N]

When they talk down to me because of their assumptions they ruin my escape from their flaccid thought process. While IRL I think people can be evil yet taught to be good, in the game, an Orc is not a person. Is not me (brown American) and is offensive as hell if you compare me to one. Simply. Fuckin. Put.

[@ElBromoHojo]

You know who also only relies on reason? Shockwave.

[@ordinarynonplayercharacter2142]

They are after the goblins; the orcs are just in the way

[@jeffsmith688]

The Orc way of life has many similarities with Islam . Just saying !

[@Xoroxouselric]

D&D is my favorite game of all time. I'm glad that the rules are more "Suggestions" than anything else. My world is dark fantasy. My character, where my username comes from, was a sorcerer that ended up performing the ritual to become a lich. So my worlds will always be like the old school D&D that everyone loves.

[@joemama114]

In 3.5 and further 5E Orcs were tragic. They were not more inherently evil or violent than any other race, their culture, religion and patron deities see all other races as enemies. As a result the Orcs who live separate from other species are violent and dangerous but other than that, they are actually capable of being lawful good beings. If they wanted to be clever about it, they could have ran with that idea further, cautioning the dangerous and destructive power of deities in D&D and how important empathy is in a society. But they didn't do that, no instead they said "You can't use orcs, that's too much of an allegory for black people" To which the rest of us said "You saw a large muscular violent and savage species of dangerous humanoids, and the first thing you thought of was black people... okay you lost me" If they wanted to focus on black people in D&D there's a whole island called Chult. It's got huge cities that are predominantly black people and they tame and ride DINOSAURS!

[@Soloong_Gaybowzer]

DnD, Warhammer, LOTR. Just goes to show that if fans don't Gatekeep, no one will.

[@user-tm8jt2py3d]

those LotR memes where newspaper headlines about "migrants" replaced with orcs are absurdly apt. its why Miyazaki claims to hate LotR, he said it represented Asian and African people. He put that into my mind, he made it seem accurate.

[@khylerbane4523]

Middle Earth; Shadow of War had a great take in the orcs. Though intrinsically evil, they had qualities that were more good than evil. -The Architect was obsessed with building the perfect fortress and saw destroying them as a way to test a structures quality. -Ratbag and Ranger genuinely cared about each other. -The orc blood brothers will track down to achieve vengeance if one is murdered, even if that means the marching across all Mordor. -The Historian was avid on knowing history. -The Friendly would rather parlay and be friends than fight as enemies. -Zog the Eternal flat out word for word said “the dominion of those slave masters” [Sauron and the Nazgûl] “is at an end!” That is honestly verbatim what he said. -One background orc can be heard saying things like “The Bright Lord is going to bring true change to Mordor”, “At lest we can see him, unlike Sauron”, and “He leads his men into battle” among other things, are said if you listen. -If you shame or kill a orc with a blood brother the blood brother will seek you out for vengeance/justice for doing it to them. -Both The Machine and Stormbringer seeks revenge for you making them into what they are now. -The Enchanted vows service to Eltarel exclusively because he views her as far more worthy of following than anyone else. -Tinder became depressed when his brother, Flint, died. -Ogg, Bow of Morgoth was firmly against aiding Sauron, seeing his as a usurper and false god. To say nothing of the books that did this a few times too… -Ugluk in The Two Towers was shown to be courageous, loyal to him men and mission, having a warrior’s spirit, respecting of those with a warriors honor and spirit, and very attentive to both this men and Merry & Pippin. Where Grishnak, Captain of Barad-Dur, was depicted as being the exact opposite and was despised by Ugluk for it. -Grishnak and his men were *appalled* by Ugluk and the Uruk Hai’s eagerness and willingness to cannibalize their own kind, as well as other races. -Shagrat and Gorbag in The Return of the King both showed a desire for freedom and independence from the likes of Sauron and the Nazgûl. Even deciding to one day “get some boys” and carve a path of their own. -Bolg and the goblins of Goblin Town both just wanted vengeance….Bolg for his fathers death, and the goblins for their kings’ straight up *murder.* -The orcs of Moria and especially Gundabad wanted a new home. A place to call their own. Whether or not someone else lived their was a irrelevant detail to them, one that is and was very easily rectifiable. Orcs aren’t capable of being good; not in a moral or ethical sense anyway… but they can have good or noble qualities about them.

[@machinegunftw86]

Amen to this. 😂

[@lorkh4nn]

orks are fungus boyz born to krump humies, nuff said

[@gamemaker2084]

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="317">5:17</a> - <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="327">5:27</a> this is sam Harris and the like to a T. He said the same thing to Ben Shapiro at one point. He said (in not exactly the same words) if I give you a logical proposition and you can't come up with an objection to it, YOU WILL HELPLESSLY BELIEVE IT. To this day, that has stuck with me, not because of how profound it is, but because it always struck me as insane.

[@jigsaw6954]

His argument sucks and dosnt work due to the pure fact people have heard his argument understood it and still think hes a moron. The fact that exists should on its face undo what he believes

[@Sorain1]

As if human beings don't demonstrate the willpower every day to ignore logic, both as children and adults. Like you said, it's insane.

[@br.augustinejewell5005]

He forgot something important. Just because it is logical doesn't mean it is true.

[@phenomeninja1855]

Ever since my dwarf died in 1986 I can’t go back to D&D . Rest in Peace Garvadar .

[@khronostheavenger8923]

There is potential to make orcs respectable. Instead of law, they may adhere to a code of conduct, such as the Code of Malacath, where grievances are settled by gold or blood. They may have a history where their evil deeds are given an origin, such as the Warcraft orcs who were decieved by demon hordes. They may be seen as tragic, such as Tolkien orcs, twisted from a fairer form and given nothing but a propensity for evil. In all cases, there is a degree of respect one can have for the orc, but you would, as a human, still fight them, because they are incompatible with your society and would not hesitate to destroy you and relish in doing so.

[@TheMaleRei]

Let D&D be D&D... Let Elder Scrolls be Elder Scrolls... Besides, we have the Scro in Spelljammer.

[@t8kabr8km85]

Tbf tho the Orcs in Elder Scrolls are literal shitskins.

[@ajent047]

I do agree that orcs, as a race in games and fantasy, ought to be savage, brutish, and usually evil. However, I do think that orcs in the Elder Scrolls universe are quite interesting.

[@Shin_Mothra]

The poop mer.

[@giin97]

That's because they're not actually orcs, they're elves. Savage elves, but elves nonetheless.

[@TheWeebinar]

"Just as ancient tyrants gave the people bread and circuses, in exchange for their loyalty, so visions can acquire a tyrannical sway over people's minds by offering them an exalted sense of themselves in exchange for their loyalty to the vision through all the vicissitudes of facts to the contrary'"

[@JLT1187]

"Everything woke turns to shit."

[@ianphillips9105]

"Dis video is da zoggin truth." - A proper Orky git.

[@uni-minichromi]

unsure how you have finally found your way upon my algorithm

[@violenceislife1987]

This is a battlefield in the culture war

[@rpg_haven]

Loving the renewed focus on this channel, my man

[@AdeptusOrkstodes]

They will never end us! LOK'TAR OGAR!! FOR THE WAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!

[@thegeneralmitch]

return to fungus, greenskin. THE EMPEROR PROTECTS!!!

[@windrider970]

Don't mix the two franchises!

[@3rdtimesthecharm376]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

[@AdeptusOrkstodes]

@@thegeneralmitch FUCKIN' MON THEN YOO OOMIE ARSEWIPE

[@bigjohn1111]

Wut iz diz LOK'TAR OGAR? Iz diz nu 'umieboyz werdz?

[@Cowslippoetry]

To be completely honest, the fairest shake DnD orcs got was their Eberron iteration. Some of them were part of loosely united, pastoral, deeply spiritual and shamanistic communities, from whom sprung the Gatekeepers, those who worked to monitor and counter invasions from extraplanar entities. Most of them, however, were marauding nomads who practiced slavery and piracy on the open seas, with many settling in the monster nation of Droaam to serve as soldiers in their army. They were also enlisted as mercenaries by many nations as well, owing to their martial prowess. Were they a monster race? Yes. Were they mostly antagonistic? Yes. Were they still an integral and nuanced part of the Eberron setting? Yes.

[@campingcake]

whats happening with DND now is what happened to 40k with 8th edition

[@gabrielpardo4229]

Thats it, its time to make a fantasy monster based off the Charlatan Skin Suit Bureaucracy. "Mimics are back in the menu boys."

[@sallyspits]

I'm about to roll a half-orc barbarian in a D&D campaign with some frens. I'm going pure classic - big, dumb, and mean. Dump int and cha, pump str and con. Nature survivalist and biggest smasher of them all with a warhammer. My frens are quite woke and if they even hint at orcs being noble savages I'm gonna make my half-orc shit in their cereal and delete 1 NPC every time they annoy me with that attitude. And if they *really* push me I'll start to include tidbits such as him having loads of kids from different women he doesn't see, that he went out hunting and never came back, and that he sells black market goods outside the inn, and whenever caught doing something criminal he claims "me no do nuffin, me no do nuffin" before accusing the guardsmen of being anti-orc and singling me out for being green even though I was actually doing something illegal. And elves better watch out because I may play a little knockout game.

[@ReboyGTR]

**cue that one clip from Extra Credits**

[@elcazador3349]

You didn't ask for it, but, boom! Suddenly, you're an orky git!