The Death Penalty Has These Families of Murder Victims Divided

[@RK-em6fo]

The real question you need to answer with the death penalty isn't "Should bad people die?" it's "Do you trust the government enough to give them power over who lives and who dies?" The answer to the latter question will always be no for me.

[@communismisadisease4498]

Only the state limits the state.

[@aryashatraw2821]

The government doesn't decide who lives or dies. A trial by a jury of one's peers does. Framing it as the government having the power to kill implies that neither guilt nor innocence needs to be established. America isn't Iran. We don't kill people without any evidence, due process, or provocation.

[@masyola5280]

And then the criminal laugh at the victims family.

[@IceHax]

@@aryashatraw2821 cool argument, but won't hold up. Many innocents have been killed.

[@aryashatraw2821]

@@IceHax Not so much innocents. Unsubstantiated doesn't mean innocent. It just means that reasonable questions were raised after the fact. Those cases were also a small minority of death penalty cases. Also, if someone gets life in prison as a result of an unsubstantiated case, then the fact that he wasn't sentenced to death is irrelevant. He still lost his whole life in prison. Case and point; the mere fact that mistakes are possible isn't a compelling reason to abolish anything let alone the death penalty.

[@Bringon-dw8dx]

‘Up to god to decide when we live or die’ Well done America, that separation of church and state seems to be going well

[@bluebirdgirly]

yeah exactly. Utah is even worse than most states because of the Mormon church's hold on the government

[@phillylove7290]

Seperation of church and state in no way was meant to mean a person's religious beliefs.

[@Bringon-dw8dx]

@@phillylove7290 It was if they were involved in the law (or any government job). A professional should never be discussing their personal beliefs whilst under a professional setting- the man interviewed was interviewed as part of the legal system. The fact he brings up religion so boldly and literally tells you it’s what influences his decisions shows there is no separation of church and state. When you enter a professional workplace your job is to do your upmost best to leave your bias at the door.

[@Lucky14970]

@@Bringon-dw8dx All politicians use rhetoric like this... It's how they get elected. He wasn't hired through ZipRecruiter, he's an elected official. I mean, for fucks sake... When's the last time you heard any President make a speech without ending it with, "God bless you and God bless America." Stop being so naïve.

[@Lucky14970]

EVERYTIME ANY PRESIDENT HAS MADE A SPEECH OF MERIT THEY END IT WITH, "GOD BLESS YOU AND GOD BLESS AMERICA!" This comment is top tier lowest denominator thinking. Some of you guys are beyond clueless. I can only imagine you are the type of person that thinks the earth is flat.

[@joycewangui9093]

Recently in Kenya, one man confessed to killing over 8 kids. When in custody before being arraigned in Court, he managed to escape. He went back to his rural home and when found, was killed by a mob, people he knew in his life.

[@ryandaverayla4910]

The community saw him as a threat and dealt with him properly.

[@honeybeelove63]

Yes, I remember him and boy! did they torture him...he was beaten and burnt alive....

[@airwriq]

Good

[@thef1sh-y8c]

deserved!

[@Tis_I_SirJames]

FINALLY some good news today. Thanks for that.

[@Mr.Schnaps]

that prosecutor should not have that job, dude literally said it s up to god. You cant bring religion or your personal feelings into this.

[@MsNooneinparticular]

Oh you sweet summer child. Never been to the South I see? It's all run by religious nuts who are more extreme than that. The whole Republican party has been since the time of Reagan at least.

[@bodybag22]

@si ali ahki The purpose of justice is rehabilitation? Umm no, it almost never has been during all of human history. Justice is about the appropriate punishment for committing a crime, nothing more.

[@Mr.Schnaps]

@si ali ahki lol im bringing my personal opinion into this not feelings, know the difference. And based off what they did death penalty can be justice, justice doesn't mean rehabilitate what so ever though rehabilitation could be a form of justice, it all comes down to the situation. in this case he just plainly killed two people and had prior history of violence, rehabilitation isnt gonna work and the death penalty is very much justice in this case.

[@earthmother3024]

@@Mr.Schnaps What kind of “rehabilitation” was he given before though? The doc doesn’t say. He may have been to prison for prior crimes, but rehabilitation within the US prison system is severely lacking.

[@AnnaLVajda]

People swear on a bible in court of course God is involved.

[@gabrielmassicotte-rochon6920]

Being for the death penalty is being comfortable that the state will kill some innocent people. The fact that a mistake can be made should be enough to abolish it...

[@ambieee]

@Syphax Atlas yeah and innocent people in prison can appeal their case? can't appeal if you're dead

[@Bringon-dw8dx]

Maybe make the level of evidence needed for the death penalty to be given higher. I mean there are cases when it’s caught on camera and there’s literally no doubt

[@hopiepink]

I don't agree with the prosecutors' pro-life stance, but I have to give him credit for being the only conservative I've seen that has a consistent pro-life view with both abortion and capital punishment

[@beentheredonethatoriginals5673]

You obviously do not understand conservative views. A baby hasn't killed anyone, it has no price to pay for some heinous act. And I'm not even pro-life. But some states that allow third trimester abortions are going too far.

[@hopiepink]

@@beentheredonethatoriginals5673 No states allow 3rd trimester terminations unless the mother or fetus is in danger… Clearly you don’t know enough about abortion laws

[@beentheredonethatoriginals5673]

@@hopiepink I really wish you were right, truly. I'm not even religious. But I have kids and grandchildren, I treasure them, I wish I hadn't seen documentaries where doctors performed same day third trimester abortions for healthy women with healthy babies. But I did see them, I know it is common and there is very little meaningful enforcement in some states regarding these abortions. Here is a direct copy paste from a site, it takes very little time to research this, I suggest you look into it further because it happens with great frequency. Women further in gestation (24.1 weeks or greater) are referred to a proper facility in Florida or referred to medical facilities in Maryland, Washington D.C., Northern Virginia, New York, Colorado, California, Washington State or New Mexico.

[@necessarilybritt]

@@beentheredonethatoriginals5673 no woman is getting an abortion in the 3rd trimester for no reason. There are only 3 doctors I believe that preform late term abortions and the only reason they are done is because there’s something wrong with the FETUS or the mother if it’s not your fetus it’s not your business period. Stay out of other women’s uterus .

[@shellyveley9515]

@@beentheredonethatoriginals5673 less than 2% of abortions are done past 20 weeks and they are done for VALID medical reasons. Women don't just sit around being pregnant for 8-9 months and then wake up one day and say "Gee I changed my mind I think I will just skip down to my corner late abortion clinic for a quick easy peasy no questions asked late abortion". Smdh

[@mistercath]

I heard a great argument against the death penalty from a concentration camp survivor, that since there is a always a margin of error in death penalty cases (and cases in general), if just one person was wrongfully put to death for crimes they didn't commit, it would unjustify all the other "valid" death penalties.

[@cbriangilbert1978]

I know this to be true and yet I know that under the right circumstances I would most definitely want someone dead and no amount of logic will change that. I am not sure we as humans will ever get past that.

[@mistercath]

@Comrade McCollum it's not a great "aalrgument", but it IS a great "argument".

[@SweBeach2023]

That's a very bad argument since it would invalidate any punishment carried out by the state. "If even one person was wrongfully convicted for a crime they didn't commit its enough of an argument to abolish the whole judicial system". And the same argument can be extended to even more areas of life. "Even if only one person was wrongfully taxed it's enough of an argument to abolish all taxation ". Nothing in life is perfect, and as bad as a wrongful execution is it's only a small part of all the injustices we face (and accept) under a lifetime.

[@frankteng5476]

@@SweBeach2023 except death is absolute and cannot be amended. Capital punishment is being taken way too lightly.

[@shilohkeller]

@@frankteng5476 you cant get the time back that you spent in prison. You can't undo that.

[@sixbrigands]

Forget the morality. The justice system is imperfect and there has been and will always be innocent people on death row. No vengeance/justice is worth the state killing an innocent person.

[@FreeManFreeThought]

@Syphax Atlas no, but an innocent can be released. You can't un-execute someone.

[@ambieee]

@Syphax Atlas life in prison isn't torture, it's punishment for their crime? are they supposed to just skip serving time?

[@Skywater101]

That just means in cases where the guilt is 100% conclusive, the dead penalty is okay?

[@sixbrigands]

@Syphax Atlas think of it this way: you can let an innocent man out of jail, you can’t bring him back to life.

[@sixbrigands]

@@Skywater101 I don’t think that standard is practical. What is 100% certain? Don’t we already use the standard of “beyond reasonable doubt”?

[@danksamosa3952]

I liked his point that the criminal justice system is not meant for therapy

[@ikematthews6866]

You’re right, it’s about justice. If someone takes another persons life then the just thing to do is for their life to be taken.

[@Aiden_Muslim]

It's not a mental hospital for mental criminals it's a place in which justice is served, the only problem is for it to be way more efficient punishments need to be done publicly to deter others.

[@josephk1342]

@@ikematthews6866 no it’s not. That’s the stupidest form of justice, and it does absolutely nothing for society. What are you going to suggest next? We beat people convicted of assault?

[@G_Zero127]

@@josephk1342 Would you assault somebody up knowing you would be beaten up later?

[@wongagung8897]

@@josephk1342 so, if your family get massacared, you will never ask the killer to be killed? Even though the killer didn't feel any remorse after killing your family. And if the killer go to jail for a life time or go to rehab, whose money that are used to feed these killer? So what do you suggest, o smart one!

[@CommanderWar64]

Is this prosecutor the first consistent conservative? Pro life and anti death penalty lol

[@l0kumidit641]

Lmao you're right!

[@bnasty267]

I have issues with the death penalty, but come on, you can't see the difference between those two things?

[@CommanderWar64]

@@bnasty267 No, if you’re pro life you need to also believe in paternity and maternity leave, believe in affordable healthcare, believe in affordable education and pre k, etc… you can’t simply just care about the kid before it’s born: you have to care about it always.

[@ItsOttis]

@@CommanderWar64 not true. The death penalty is about punishing terrible and harmful decisions an adult human makes. Pro life is about preserving the potential life, where that life could go well, or go wrong and the human turn into a criminal. At that point, their life can be ended. Or allowed to continue if they don't kill anyone intentionally.

[@gavinr.3170]

My fav KZbin video right now no lie kzbin.info/www/bejne/jom4aK2eedSoZqs

[@1907timo]

Like a wise wizard once said: “Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.”

[@justdoit8779]

Fortunately there is a law instead . Any child killer is primary candidate for death penalty . If anyone receives this sentence , it should be these individuals . And yes I know exactly how it feels to take a life because unfortunately it was a requirement in Middle East and it isn't like on 📺 TV. All I knew is they wanted to kill us without blinking an eye . As ugly as it sounds , I believe shooting a child killer is what they deserve . Some people cannot be labeled as human . This guy in my opinion should receive DP . But , the positive side to Life in Prison is no inmate who tolerates these people or what they done . They are marked people in Prison .

[@nervouspervousunchained2373]

Derr

[@koffiarizamoto9326]

@@justdoit8779 perverts as well. Anything against children.

[@jamiegrowthanddevelopment9664]

That wizard has no clue what he said and he smoking wizards weed while making bs quotes!!!!

[@athalonARC]

@@justdoit8779 This kind of mentality will get people wrongfully killed. Any time someone gets accused of killing a child people seem to get so emotional they immediately think they did it, no question, and they just want to see them die. Personally, I think a child killer and a killer of adults should be given the same treatment. We start making these rules of "oh but these specific people deserve the death penalty", then we miss the point entirely. Like the OP said, its not about who deserves, its about if YOU are capable of being fair, and the truth is, you are not, no one is.

[@yungstarjc4094]

Why apply for the job? Your morals didn't stop you from taking the position?!

[@Svveet69]

I was just going to say the same thing. Dont take the job if your not ok with doing your job. Just like dont be a surgeon if your afraid of making judgement calls that could end someone's life. . Im sure this man has put innocent people behind bars but this is what keeps him up at night

[@divineintervention212]

Those aren't morals those are excuses he's giving himself to rationalize his hypocrisy.

[@ricflair5956]

Bruh all elected officials are crooks or corrupt one way or the other.

[@Adam-xe5xm]

@@Svveet69 The judgement call is prosecuting the case. If you cant see why taking a life weighs on him more than locking up an innocent man i dont know what to tell you, one is permanent the other can be undone to a certain degree. Im personally pro death penalty but prosecutors get to pick if they want to seek it at their discretion. If the people in his jurisdiction want someone who will seek the death penalty in all cases they can replace him in the next cycle.

[@RAZR_Channel]

" An Eye for an Eye... and the whole world goes blind ' ...

[@RAZR_Channel]

@Chime In When human stop killing each other... Regardless of the situation : That will be The Beginning of The Civilized World... ... and if you have lost someone... Do You have the will to kill who did it? Let's put a knife in Your hand and see what You will Actually do in the name of justice. "Many that live deserve death... and some that die deserve life... can YOU Give it to them? Do not be so quick to deal out death and judgment"...

[@bodybag22]

@@RAZR_Channel Thanks Gandalf, a character who murdered several creatures.

[@mikloridden8276]

@4one14 Yeah let’s let them all off the hook, it’s what we do with war criminals as well. No such thing as justice in this world, evil lives longer as you can see.

[@earthmother3024]

@@mikloridden8276 You consider life in prison getting left off the hook? Prison is a torturous shithole, death penalty is the easy way out.

[@mikloridden8276]

@@earthmother3024 idk if you’ve noticed but half through most hailed for life criminals get let out

[@Cyclops1973]

The anti death penalty people are worse than the killers in my mind. Oh he raped and murdered a 6 yr old girl but he deserves to be rehabilitated. Your the real sickos. With any luck it’s one of your kids next and we’ll see how you feel.

[@Sarahyangtoronto]

The fact he said up to God is just... He should not be a state attorney.

[@KeefeL]

I mean, he's a Mormon

[@6Oko6Demona6]

This state prosecutor is not cut for the position he shouldn't have entered the office. He is not the legislator, it's not up to him to rewrite the law. And if he can't enforce the law as it is written he shouldn't be a prosecutor... That's just ridiculous.

[@lunaluna6474]

i was for the death penalty before because i dont believe horrid horrid people should be allowed to live a comfortable life behind bars while others are murdered but with the point from that lady that you get dragged right along with them the entire process, its definitely not worth it. i hope they can speed up the process or at least make it so the family doesnt have to suffer more

[@SharonWrightWeeks]

Thank you! I am glad that I helped you understand the truth of what has been happening to all families with death penalty cases. The day the jury hands down that sentence is the day that hell begins for those left behind...

[@Nimish204]

The death penalty should be imposed within 2 years of conviction.

[@SharonWrightWeeks]

@Lorin Kell Yes...Everyone suffers. The men who murdered my sister and niece had wives and children. They really suffered. I am fairly close with two of the now adult children. Wonderful people.

[@Nimish204]

@Lorin Kell it was done before 1980.

[@roarkemartin]

If it were sped up more innocents would die

[@cupguin]

Even if we ignore how unequally the death penalty is applied, or how many innocent people have been put to death, nothing about what people want from the death penalty is what the death penalty delivers. If you turn this argument "are you for victim's rights or against" you get to ignore the real questions. Does this make anyone safer? Does this actually help victims heal? Does it benefit society in any way? Almost every conversations (ignoring hyperbolic arguments) I've had on this subject, the people arguing for the death penalty aren't arguing for the death penalty as it exists now. They're arguing for what they think is the death penalty. Something they've seen in TV or in movies or from newspaper headlines. Strip away the branding and you have a whole other conservation. And even if they still believe in the death penalty they're willing to agree there needs to be reform.

[@Manish_Kumar_Singh]

i think death penalty is a very effective way to heal the mental trauma people who live in first world countries don't understand that state has a complete monopoly on violence and it therefore has to use it where necessary otherwise that's how blood fudes start. especially observed in 3rd world countries

[@cupguin]

@@Manish_Kumar_Singh I admit, not an expert in blood feuds or how to prevent them. But in my limited predominately Western experience that doesn't seem to be true. American citizens were happy to engage in blood feuds and lynching when the death penalty was much more common. Fewer states with the death penalty didn't increase the number of lynchings or blood feuds. And not just America, the more famous examples of people killing each other in retribution tend to exist in places with death penalties. And an argument for the reverse could even be made. When a government says death is an appropriate punishment for certain crimes then it's arguably easier to convince people in a society to enact their own death penalties without the state's help. Afterall if the state says killing criminals isn't murder then if I kill a criminal it's not murder either. Meanwhile if you arrest anyone who kills or takes part in a killing and say the punishment is living outside of society because you are too dangerous then the message is simple, killing is wrong. If you kill for any reason you don't get to take part in society. In real life "if the state doesn't execute the people will" is the kind of argument that sounds reasonable but I don't think there's any evidence to support it. I'm not really convinced the death penalty impacts crime figures at all. There are so many other factors that saying the death penalty is so important it can reshape society feels naive.

[@koffiarizamoto9326]

What's the point in sending these people to prison for them to be used as an extra $90,000-$400,000 a year in taxes. We don't get to decide how much each prison is given. public schools are given $10,000 per student. The average person in the US. Makes around $18k-$22k a year and can survive on that. But they can't even get a decent meal for $90,000 a year. Not to use taxes and private prisons in itself to defend the death penalty. But at what point do you decide the dog has to be put down because it is uncontrollable? A dog bites a human on accident and it gets reported police will show up at your door take your dog and put it down. But its somehow a debate when we're talking about serial rapists serial murders pedophiles mass murderers? What about the school shooters that take out 18 people before they get caught? Why do they get to live out the rest if their life in prison after stopping so many short? It should only ever be used in violent crimes with undisputable evidence. I don't think it should be a go-to but it should be an option used more frequently for these things and save us a few million a year that could be used for something to better our community overall.

[@cupguin]

@@koffiarizamoto9326 except it doesn't save money. Capital cases cost the states far more money than life in prison. You want to save money, advocate for abolishing the death penalty.

[@poisonvolkswagon9431]

@@fnsfhgh2483 But then aren't you exactly like the person that committed the crime?

[@Skywater101]

He's pleading not guilty? Wish they'd given more info around his defense.

[@wasatch0]

It's the only way to get a jury trial.

[@amandajdavis]

He doesn’t have a defense.

[@RONPEE-STINGER]

I have a cousin who was shot by a guy dress as the joker it happened in nevada

[@modoulamin5628]

@@amandajdavis a

[@benjiboy111111]

@@amandajdavis wouldn't stop him from trying

[@virtualxella]

Religion aside I kinda get the prosecutorial stance. Hear me out. Utah is a state that has the death penalty but doesn't utilise it like Texas or Florida for example so everyone saying he should stand down or shouldn't have that job remember that this isn't something he's familiar with or has to see on an everyday basis like prosecutors in other states, it's alien to Utah prosecutors. No lawyer goes into that job expecting one day they'll have to fight to have someone killed its really not as simple as that. Also, I know church and state has to be and should be separate BUT it's Utah.... A state that arguably has the most orthodox religious population in the country so is it really that surprising people would be against capital punishment?

[@brianmorris3614]

weird grey area for sure… i get what you’re saying. that being said, utah is one of the best states to live in. hehehe now stay out! yall are driving our house prices up! jkjk come to utah, keep it red, its worked, lds church makes a great state

[@dkgshizzy]

The more sickening thing is how long some people are on death row. Some people go back into the 1980s.

[@Sum_Ting_Wong]

because the penal system gets paid to keep them incarcerated. A bullet costs a few dollars. It ALWAYS boils down to money

[@Just_a_turtle_chad]

@@Sum_Ting_Wong Death penalty is actually more expensive

[@Dobviews]

Death Penalty is an expensive quick out for the offender. I am not considering the lives of the guilty, instead I consider the few who have been killed even though innocent.

[@j.g.mcbell9494]

It’s been very, very few. Under 200 in the last 50 years. We obviously don’t know for sure because we can’t know who was innocent but already killed and will never have the chance to prove their innocence. But it takes like 10+ years to actually die on death row. You have a long time to prove you were wrongfully prosecuted.

[@frankteng5476]

@@j.g.mcbell9494 time =/ you have the means

[@ruslankazimov622]

Euthanasia in Europe costs only 10,000€ ... for non convicts, for people suffering from extreme pain and etc. This sounds like someone has infiltrated ranks of punishment system there... like has turned this into a business... Dead prisoners means no government money for private prisons. Also, executions should only be reserved for cases with beyond reasonable doubts and no political killings at all.

[@oliknowles7645]

so the problem is the death penalty is too costly and too slow.

[@IceHax]

Nah its just wrong.

[@oliknowles7645]

@@IceHax not what the majority of those interviewed, the victim family members, thought.

[@betacuck3145]

@@IceHax explain

[@finnalexander17]

I personally think it would be far worse to spend the rest of your natural life locked up in a prison then it would to get the death penalty

[@astro3213]

That's already the wrong mentality. The Usa has to stop seing jail as vengeance. It has to be rehabilitation. We have to stand above all this

[@pachiroth7848]

@@astro3213 the only way to fix wrong, is with tenfold of right.

[@finnalexander17]

@@astro3213 I agree with that for most crimes but i think in most cases where someone plans out a murder and commits it they aren’t exactly rehabilitatable.

[@astro3213]

@@finnalexander17 yeah true, but you still have to keep in mind that those kind of behaviors and motives don't come from nothing. Unless it's a permanent mental health issue everyone should get a second chance, of course only if the person shows some kind of new insight. But yeah this topic is still very very difficult

[@SharonWrightWeeks]

A life sentence and the death penalty in Utah are the same thing...

[@gabrielmassicotte-rochon6920]

The argument that the death penalty is a deterrent to crime is also completely false, just look at all the countries where there is no death penalty that have a lower homicide rate per 100k/inhabitants than the US. The list is EXTENSIVE. what brings down crime is social programs and investment in rehabilitation.

[@TTOS69]

Ok I just murdered your family so you wanna give me a cookie and a crayon and tell me it'll be alright? You want to spend money on someone who murdered your family... how is this the right way to think?

[@gabrielmassicotte-rochon6920]

Prison for life is not a crayon and a cookie.

[@cstrutherskgs]

I don’t think that is a causation relationship, specifically because of no death penalty. If you suddenly abolished the death penalty in any crime ridden nation, it wouldn’t suddenly become safer. I understand that wasn’t wholly your argument, but it could easily come off as that.

[@TTOS69]

@@gabrielmassicotte-rochon6920 your right it costs the taxpayers alot more than that would

[@jake91hall]

if you cant do the job without bringing your own emotions into it he shouldn't be in that position this isnt politics

[@mabelhouzen]

Emotions keep us human. They are important in every profession. We don’t want to have sociopaths in charge

[@tentailmadara2500]

@@mabelhouzen emotion cause more death. Using logic should be a must

[@shellyveley9515]

@@mabelhouzen keeping his personal religious beliefs and personal emotional beliefs separate from the job doesn't make him a sociopath.

[@dirtyASSS]

@@mabelhouzen law isn't about emotion. Never has been in the history of mankind.

[@Avogadros_number]

@@tentailmadara2500 this isn’t an anime

[@Ash-ow5yc]

If you are pro death penalty, 1. You better not call yourself pro-life EVER and 2. You are openly admitting you have no problem with some innocent people being put to death, because that is, objectively and demonstrably, what happens.

[@Sebastianator01]

I support the death penalty and if a innocent man were to get the death penalty I sure as hell do not mind because I am pro life too 😃😃👍🏻👍🏻

[@Ash-ow5yc]

@@Sebastianator01 ‘if an innocent man were to get the death penalty I do not mind’ ‘I am pro life’ Pick one. Mutually exclusive. Thanks for announcing your lack of empathy, sub 70 IQ, cognitive dissonance and severe crippling case of Dunning Kruger.

[@Bringon-dw8dx]

Personally I’m pro death penalty WITH the condition it can only be applied when there is NO doubt in who did it. I would want the legal threshold for the death penalty to be higher then just a conviction.

[@chinchilla2302]

Sounds like this guy isn’t capable of handling the responsibilities of being prosecutor. Maybe he should get another job.

[@nikkib5753]

It's common sense, some crimes are so egregious, heinous & inhumane that the ONLY justifiable punishment is the death penalty. THIS is exactly what the death penalty is for. The family wanting is only one aspect of this case. This is about a repeat offender who has CLEARLY proven he is incapable of being productive among society. It's about ensuring this individual never gets another opportunity to harm someone. Also, the prosecutor should absolutely be removed from his position as he has CLEARLY proven & voiced his bias of the death penalty. A effective & worthy prosecutor needs to be unbiased regarding the punishments of our judicial system.

[@po4742]

@Lorin Kell Then the death penalty process should be reviewed and unnecessary barriers that slow that the process be eliminated.

[@po4742]

@Lorin Kell my point exactly. And some of those reasons are silly. Some as silly as the reason the AG gave by calling God. If he cannot carry out his duties, he should step down. Every family of the deceased deserve justice, even if it means putting to death those who killed their loved ones.

[@po4742]

@Lorin Kell It's not the problem of those who seek justice to think about/consider the families of those who killed their loved ones. The ones who have killed, should have thought about the effects their actions would have on their families. And since they didn't, you cannot burden the victims' families either. You do the crime, you pay the ultimate price. You intentionally kill someone, your life deserves to be taken. Period.

[@po4742]

@Lorin Kell Nobody has the right to decide who dies or who lives yet the murderer did. See how contradictory your statement is? Stop bringing the families of the murderers into this. You sympathize more with the murder and their families than with the victims and their families. Maybe it would be easier to have the families of those who are murdered, kill the murderers instead. Noh? Or maybe it would be good if one of your family members gets murdered by these savages? Stop pushing your nonsense on here.

[@eagillum]

I'm so sorry to the families of those victims. How terrible.

[@Ash-bd6jz]

People forget just how much money it costs to keep someone on death row its not a personal attack to the family. Smaller communities such is this one have far less money than large cities and someone on death row isnt considered as worth the cost

[@jcgw2]

why are they kept alive. just carry it out.

[@actuallyZiggyZagga]

A Glock and a 10-Round Magazine is around 800 US Dollars, a plastic bag is 1$.

[@kaze987]

I've been really liking all of the pieces done by Dan. In depth, balanced and respectful of the subject.

[@ricksa2786]

That Prosecutor needs to step down and become a Public Defender.

[@KeefChief_]

So wait the DA thought he was protecting HIS heart by not seeking death penalty… but the hearts of the actual victims means nothing. Utah should get that DA fired.

[@kyleconklin3326]

This prosecutor thinks that the death penalty is a "bargaining chip" to use as leverage to get murders to plea guilty in return for a lesser sentence. That is NOT why the death penalty was created, and they need to quit treating it that way and do their job.

[@MrElmofamily]

Why do we have the death penalty?

[@PK-lo6ws]

@@MrElmofamily to remove people who have done henious crimes from the face of earth and for retribution

[@gribble2979]

I believe he's saying that is what it's become because it takes so long to go through all the appeals. And the appeals are a good thing because it's estimated that over 4% of those who receive the death penalty are factually innocent. We don't always get it right and you can't undo the ultimate punishment.

[@MrElmofamily]

@@gribble2979 in a perfect world the death sentence would be great, but unfortunately we don’t. Death sentences are too risky even if the numbers are 4%

[@mrnarason]

Problem with the death penalty is that innocent people can be executed.

[@trader2137]

problem with not having death penalty is letting criminals live and be THREAT to society and LEECHES on your tax money.

[@zephyrschiesser5408]

@@trader2137 They literally just explained how the death penalty is more expensive...

[@ryanslings6234]

@@Leo23XR It's ok if math isn't your strongest subject, but please don't pontificate about it since you obviously know nothing. But hey, if you think 2+2=3, and don't mind making a fool of yourself on a public forum, go for it, I guess.

[@zephyrschiesser5408]

@@Leo23XR Again, they just explained how the death penalty takes so long to go through with that it's basically life in prison with more litigation fees. I don't understand how that confuses you. Try actually watching the video.

[@koilamaoh4238]

​@@trader2137 i BARELY trust the mail man to do their job.. Now the justice system? I've worked in law/court/enforcement, its not great.. Do you know how critcal race theory functions on "colored people" when they are targeted during the "drug wars" and how police convict people for "fun" without actual evidence? The eye for an eye bible system is silly. You know it costs tax payers tons of money just to kill someone? vs just housing them putting them away? WHy arent a lot of these pedo pastors getting the death penalty, all they do is molest a child and get forgiven by supply side jesus... We still live in a age where cops still "plant" drugs in peoples cars and police get caught on cam, like dave chapelle says "sprinkle some crack em" thats how true it is lol. Whatever happen to the bible, "Thou shalt not kill" lol. Seriously, everything is opposite for these religious fascists, they have all the bad guys on their side. Also police majority are republican. You sound like those right wing fascist loons.. I bet when you hear "immigrants"... you'll place a large blame on them, just like the german fascists..

[@johnking7535]

"Dont be so quick to deal out death in judgment, for even the most wise can not see all ends." - Gandalf the Gray

[@DeyRapingEveryone]

Untill its your child thats murdered by some psycho

[@johnking7535]

@@DeyRapingEveryone You dont think I have such capacity for forgiveness?

[@Kremit_the_Forg]

@@johnking7535 No. Just think about what humans can do to other humans. And I mean really think about it. Think about people like Gein, Dahmer and Bundy. Think about Fritzl. Now think about the fear they induce. Try to imagine. If you truely think about those people doing their "thing" with your child, your flesh and blood, your love... and "forgiveness" even comes to your mind then there is something really really wrong with you. May god forgive. Man will not.

[@johnking7535]

@@Kremit_the_Forg rabbit.

[@Kaerikillington]

Humanity will never evolve past their own selfish need for vengeance. And this is coming from someone who, if someone I loved was murdered, would very much want the murderer to suffer and get the death penalty. But I live in Canada, so...

[@MyMillionMeterLife]

Complex issue no doubt

[@skylarblacc1660]

💯😔

[@maryanchabursky9148]

Not really the rest of the civilized world agree, the death penalty is barbaric. The state has no right to intentionally kill one of it's citizens.

[@MilkANDMagic]

@@maryanchabursky9148 its very ironic to me that people are more okay with the killing of innocent babies than murderers

[@maryanchabursky9148]

@@MilkANDMagic If the government starts killing "innocent babies" then your argument will become valid. Until such a time however, the government having the ability to intentionally kill its citizens will be my concern as a citizen. Moreover the killing of innocent people (wrongfull conviction is about 3% on death row) is something we can control (unlike what the mental ill do).

[@MilkANDMagic]

@@maryanchabursky9148 Isnt abortion mandated by the government in america? Well regardless, you'll find a lot more people okay with that than punishing murderers

[@Brandolupa]

Its refreshing hearing someone who is anti choice is actually pro life in other ways too..I find it hilarious hearing the same people rallying about abortion murdering babies, yet supporting the death penalty

[@cyrusthegreat7472]

Protecting life of a murderer isn't pro-life. The murderer himself isn't a pro-life.

[@Tonnolin]

@@cyrusthegreat7472 you are saying protecting a life is not pro life?

[@cyrusthegreat7472]

@@Tonnolin Not this man's life. Hurt?

[@Brandolupa]

@@cyrusthegreat7472 so it sounds like you are in favor of returning to the code of Hamurabi, eye for an eye...the only issue is sure this murder killed someone's loved one, then the state kills them...but what about the murders family? Should they get justice because one of thier loved ones was killed? And this is completely ignoring the other costs associated with capital punishment, both monetary and human

[@cyrusthegreat7472]

@@Brandolupa Capital punishment doesn't mean all murderers should be killed.

[@neeneko]

gotta love 'it is not about vengeance, the law says we can do it'. says a lot about their moral compass.

[@rouskeycarpel1436]

Again you didn’t lose anybody to a habitual offender.This guy ACTUALLY kidnapped and killed those two kids.

[@lisadunn1138]

Why? I don't get what the manner of death has to do with it? Dead is dead. Doesn't matter if that's via electricity, a Bullet or chemicals as long as its instant there is no difference to the outcome.

[@neeneko]

@@rouskeycarpel1436 So? This is about the couple, not the offender.

[@neeneko]

@@lisadunn1138 I was not speaking to the manner of death, but about the couple's moral framework. They are framing the death plenty not in terms of justice, or vengeance, or morality, but because the law allows them to do it.

[@betacuck3145]

@@neeneko you're probably a debate wizz and wordsmith who can properly convey your views when on camera. Try being rational when your kid is brutalized by a remorseless killer.

[@bym6952]

2:46 I dont believe the publics choice of capital punishment is being taken away. We the people elect our county prosecutors and if we dont like this prosecutor’s decision not to seek capital punishment he can be voted out. Thats where public will comes into play.

[@yutakago1736]

I found that people that do not support death penalty, lack sympathy for criminal's victims. Instead, these people see the criminal as the victim. If you have sympathy for the criminal's families. Why you do not have sympathy for the victim's families ? These people, who oppose death penalty, are just hypocrites. The research in USA about death penalty is flaw. If you look at the FBI files documentaries, you will heard these words very frequently - "The murder suspect is an ex-convict, who have histories of violent". If these violent criminals are given the death penalty instead of parole. The number of murder victims would have reduce significantly in USA. Many innocent people do not have to die. The only way the world can become a better place is to get rid of bad people. Death penalty is the solution. Don't see death penalty as evil when you enjoy the benefits of death penalty.

[@bronco669]

If you feel uncomfortable with the power you have been elected to have.. in that one sentence you have proven you are not worthy of that power. You do not have the stones to do the job you were elected to do . You should resign

[@sensisensei5201]

exactly

[@shellyveley9515]

That man needs to be fired since he clearly can't keep his religious beliefs separate from his job.

[@vinsderiz]

1000000%, exactly, he literally said seek healing elsewhere

[@George-ur8ow]

It's freedom "of religion", not "from religion". Of course one's religious belief informs and influences one's decisions, especially concerning those with more in-depth moral considerations. To ask a public or governmental official to leave the influence of their personal beliefs at the door is an impossibility.

[@Nimish204]

@@George-ur8ow Freedom of religion implies freedom from religion

[@thereal6131]

I don’t understand how it cost more to put someone to death than it cost to house them in jail. I mean obviously prisons are existing to make money so that’s probably the real reason behind his decision is to keep the prison population full and therefore making as much money as they can

[@cesheph]

Right 2020 happened. The Prisons were bleeding money by releasing Inmates. Stock dividends were hurting. Pensions for Government Employees, teachers, law enforcement, etc. Were hurting. So they diversified and won immigration facilities. All of a sudden we have immigration problems 🙄 and death penalty is bad.

[@thereal6131]

If the *Correctional system was meant for* rehabilitating people rather than warehousing them and *making money off of prisoners* we wouldn’t have this problem. If Prison’s dip below 70 or 80% capacity than they have to pay a fine so they are making sure that the population stays up. That’s a little known fact I wish the world knew about America and how and why we have so Many prisoners and the only for-profit bail system in the world. That and civil asset forfeiture ruins many peoples lives, including mine

[@cesheph]

@@thereal6131 fact. They are diversifying into immigrants and foster kids. Legally immigrants aren't supposed to be held longer than 60 days but they are working around it smdh 😒

[@michellebennett4015]

There is a mandatory appeals process, for which the state pays with taxpayer money. It is lengthy and costly and a result of constitutional rights.

[@zetianfang6443]

Essentially, it is too slow. The penalty itself is not the problem.

[@uioplkhj]

If you were on death row for a crime you didn't commit, you'd want the appeal process to be as long as possible.

[@kriegerlander8054]

@@uioplkhj However this is a decision that prosecutors chose and were able to prove in court. The court had found them to be guilty and deserving of the death penalty. These individuals can no longer be trusted in society anymore. Also the chances of someone being innocent of a crime like this is very low

[@zetianfang6443]

@@uioplkhj I agree with your assessment; however, I don't think my personal comfort should be in the way of social efficiency and increased evidence based trial. Current bias race based prosecution/evidence standards and inefficient appeal process is what is the in the way of death penalty, not people's moral believes. If the problem is that we can not make good decisions, we should change our methods so that we can make good decisions, not the punishment itself.

[@wfjhDUI]

You can't disentangle the two. The death penalty is slow because of its finality. Once you execute someone there's no chance to say "oopsie".

[@wfjhDUI]

@@kriegerlander8054 There's an entire Wikipedia page of exonerated death row inmates.

[@Ash-ow5yc]

Y’all are real pro-life…. Until it comes to the death penalty. Curious. 🤔

[@zelenskysboot361]

America has taken hypocrisy to an art form

[@mtman22984]

@@zelenskysboot361 Thank you for that jem!

[@slavaukraini1811]

Some peope just deserve death

[@joeybaybee6831]

Big difference between something that hasn't had the opportunity to live and an adult that takes life for granted. Don't be an idiot.

[@Ash-ow5yc]

@@joeybaybee6831 and the innocent people put to death? They don’t matter? Very pro-life of you to support the death penalty that OBJECTIVELY has killed innocent people, very pro-life indeed. 🥱

[@zackaes]

Being a law student from a European country, and celebrating each year the abolition of the death penalty, the fact that most of the US still hasn't come to term with this barbaric practice still baffles me. There's nothing just nor efficient about it. Most of the argument from its defenders show a particularly poor understanding of the criminal justice system ; and of the moral questions regarding the practice and making of criminal law.

[@cyrusthegreat7472]

So capital punishment against this murderer is barbaric?

[@zackaes]

@@cyrusthegreat7472 Yes. And it doesn't minimise the gravity of his crime. We shouldn't see Justice as being state approved revenge. Killing another human is barbaric, no matter the circumstances. The death penalty is a punishment from another time. Studies after studies proved it was inhuman, inefficient financially and as a deterrent. I won't change your mind, I know, but it's quite sad that anyone could have such an antiquated set of values regarding human life.

[@cyrusthegreat7472]

@@zackaes You are confusing killing with murdering. You urgently need a brain.

[@zackaes]

@@cyrusthegreat7472 and you need a few courses in Criminal Law and Law Philosophy.

[@cyrusthegreat7472]

@@zackaes A brain is a priority, trust me.

[@mesropmadzharyan6727]

If u really think bout it life in prison more “punishment “ then death my opinion.

[@josephromeo4084]

Life in prison is the death penalty because you're gonna die there whether by disease, shank, old age or whatever

[@mesropmadzharyan6727]

@@josephromeo4084 U might die when u are 80 years old but u might be put to death when u are 40-50 ect.. so I respect your opinion and comment but i still think death penalty is wrong for couple reasons including some have been innocent.

[@janedoe3648]

Someone this unhinged and evil, I am not concerned about them getting the death penalty. Virtual serial killer types. But when it's like 1 murder, that makes me uncomfortable and I don't know what to think. I think it depends how abhorrent the murder. I believe in grace on some level. But you cannot compare taking the life of an innocent baby in the womb to a MURDERER, get real!

[@urbanlumberjack]

Prosecutors don’t work for the victims or the victims family. They work for the community, and the death penalty isn’t in the interest of the community. Too much chance for incorrect application.

[@TristenApblanc]

You have no idea what’s in the interest of their entire community.

[@betacuck3145]

Lol, you actually think politicians represent their communities.

[@hydroaegis6658]

Why are people assuming the criminal prosecution system is meant for rehabilitation?

[@benjiboy111111]

@You can eat in class!! depends on the severity of the crime and the chance or history of recidivism. Also depends on if the prisoner wants to change. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink

[@lethallizard963]

What else is it for?

[@C4mp3r01]

what's the point of having laws then if your god decides who lives or dies? so if I kill someone why should I be punished when obviously I was just doing the lord's work. absolute madness. guy killed two young people at the dawn of their lives, he took away their chance for a happy and fulfilling life. the same should be done to him that's fair

[@tentailmadara2500]

Well said. Let the people (victim) decide the punishment. They should be finding a way to make death penalty cheaper

[@nevadag606]

ten tail madara it costs like 5 cents for a bullet when you break down the cost of a package of them. Js monsters don’t deserve mercy

[@tentailmadara2500]

@@nevadag606 I learnt the reason it is expensive is because lawyers like to drag things out and milk the state for money among other things

[@nevadag606]

ten tail madara yeah it’s human greed exacerbating the victim’s family’s grief. Death penalty isn’t immoral, what’s immoral is making people relive the loss of their loved ones over and over and over when we know the person is guilty.

[@wilywascal2024]

No mention of the racist nature of how the death penalty is unjustly disproportionately applied to non-Whites, a critical omission. Apparently, the first case introduced here has not yet gone to trial, with the defendant pleading innocent. So, why is this used as an example, when innocence is presumed in our justice system? The prosecutor brought up an interesting point, that the death penalty is used as a lever to obtain a guilty plea, which does bring up ethical problems distinct from other plea bargain cases. How many innocent people plead guilty to avoid the risk of being put to death? Perhaps not many, but even if just a few, isn't that still too many that didn't get their day in court?

[@kinderboeken55]

On the one hand I think the death penalty is just in this situation on the other I hear my mother say: what if he was innocent? What if was innocent but looked guilty by mistake? There is no turning back death.

[@notwoke.2822]

Life inprisonment in solitary confinement is literally 10x worse than death. Change my mind..

[@Nutter-l3s]

If it’s “10x worse” then why do people on death row or killers like the parkland shooter, FIGHT to get life in prison? Also if it WORSE then shouldn’t we be a non cruel nation and provide Closure for families by ending their life?

[@notwoke.2822]

@@Nutter-l3s So first of all, theres way more people who fight to get the death penalty. And when you die, you get let off easy. Why whould someone want to be tortured their entire life? Thats basically life inprisonment. And please, lower your tone. This is a dialouge, not jerry springer.

[@desireeslaten6618]

@@notwoke.2822 So you want the death penalty because it's somehow less harsh? How does giving them the self described easy way out help the victims families find closure? You can't have it both ways, lol.

[@Nutter-l3s]

@@notwoke.2822 I didn’t use capitalized letters as yelling. Just to emphasize the point. I can find very few prisoners who plead for the death penalty. Watch any documentary about men on death row, they are all fighting to get off it.

[@Nutter-l3s]

@@desireeslaten6618 yes you can have both. You can have a conclusion for family and be merciful. Watch the video. Families don’t want revenge, they want justice and peace. It’s not about torturing the criminal, but rather having a fair and complete sentence.

[@michaelbathurst7871]

Where’s morality when the killer decided to end the lives of his victims? You cannot rehabilitate a psychopath

[@trevorwhittmen394]

And what credentials do you have to suggest your claim?

[@WaveRider1989]

@@trevorwhittmen394 common sense.

[@1nsaniel]

No you cannot, that doesn't mean you can killed them. We don't kill sick people

[@batalorian7997]

@@WaveRider1989 sounds more like a biased opinion based on emotion

[@Ash-ow5yc]

Ever heard the saying two wrongs don’t make a right?

[@kadnan6111]

how about spending money on improving people so that crimes dont happen death penalty doesnt bring people back most crimes can be avoided by building a good society but of course nobody cares its all chop chop head legs crucify etc

[@charlatte8942]

I remember this case, it's horrific. I wish the family recovery, this is a living nightmare.

[@Lucky14970]

4:12 "It's up to god when we die." - I wonder how children who receive the diagnosis of terminal cancer feel about hearing stuff like this. "It's okay Johnny, god just really wants to see you right now... I know you're only 3years old, in massive pain, but clearly you did something to deserve this. Sweet dreams honey, goodnight!"

[@nevadag606]

Apply this thinking to the victims of these cases. The murderer is standing behind them, their looking down that abandoned mine shaft and the killer says “don’t worry god decided it was your time to die”

[@slylover123]

Prosecutor is blaming the system when he literally has the most power in this system???

[@sharkyandbabyorchie6949]

Lets see if the elected prosecutor wont think twice about the death penalty if this were his wife and kids being murdered.

[@harutyunyan93]

It's like you almost get how personal experience can be traumatic and lead to irrational decisions (which i am not judging people for)... I don't think prosecutors should be tools of vengeance.

[@danusdragonfly6640]

@@harutyunyan93 WOW you are a complete narcissist.

[@zelena.pupavka]

Of course they would feel immense anger if something happened to their loved ones. But what message are we portraying when we punish murder with murder? Is eye for an eye still an ethical choice? This is a complex ethical issue that should be considered by experts in these fields (philosophy, law, sociology, psychology...).

[@wongagung8897]

@@zelena.pupavka so what do you think should be done, o smart one? Do we need to wait until researcher find the answer?

[@zelena.pupavka]

@@wongagung8897 Yes, you need to wait. Solutions don't come from the sky.

[@LarryJ602]

Sounds like that prosecutor chose the wrong line of work if it's that challenging of a decision. Just let the magic man in the sky decide. WTF

[@lisal5718]

No, somebody who actually has a conscious and is able to process thoughts that are more complex than “an eye for an eye”is the right person for the job. Capital punishment is a violation of the human dignity of those who are sentenced to die. And often the state kills the wrong people, just because someone made a mistake or is biased against certain people. Not to resort to hate or the need for vengeance is what makes us better than those who committed such terrible crimes.

[@Aiden_Muslim]

In Judiasm, Islam and Christianity. If someone kills someone and the family wants death to be handed out then it's handed out. So your point makes no sense in the end the US is a secularist counrty meaning it's in your favor.

[@Ryan88881]

@@lisal5718 You're wrong and are being borderline offensive. Lacking physical vengeance is not what "makes us better". What makes us better is not doing the horrible, immoral crimes that they did. Even if someone used capital punishment they would still arguably be "better" than many of these criminals who'd be on the receiving end. You can't pretend like gratuitous violence and retribution-based violence are even on the same playing field morally. That's an indication of a non-thinking world view. You're basically flaunting how superficial your approach is, very disgusting. Human dignity can suck my ass. Prison is worse than death. The only reason I agree with lockup in the first place is because it's essentially torture.

[@zackthrockmorton7379]

“I believe it’s up to god to decide when we die”. Nice separation of church and state, bud.

[@aryashatraw2821]

Separation of church and state means that we are governed by elected officials instead of self appointed clergymen. It doesn't mean that no one is allowed to arrive at a conclusion or have a perspective with the idea of God in mind. He also didn't mention any particular religion either.

[@aryashatraw2821]

@@Quinu12 Thank you for telling me that I'm incorrect while agreeing exactly with what I described as separation of church and state. Lol 😆. Re-read what I said, dude. We said the same thing. Self appointed clergymen, governing is the concept of a "state" church.

[@iiiMUNiiiQUE]

It’s Utah

[@DUSAbruddah]

I find it odd for the state to execute their civilians. You have them detained, sentence them to life without parole. Its also cheaper and more humane IMO.

[@marissa3762]

It’s cheaper to kill them nd move on. I believe the victims should get to decide.

[@Evan-tp7ur]

@@marissa3762 you clearly didn’t watch the video

[@zanderw1199]

Say that when someone murders your fam. Your feelings will change.

[@cstrutherskgs]

@@Evan-tp7ur it’s only more expensive to execute them because of all the appeals and bureaucracy involved in doing it properly. Not sure where they were going with it, but if someone didn’t challenge their sentence at all it wouldn’t be that difficult to do.

[@lee0495]

@@zanderw1199 I don't know if wise to model the justice system over the retribution of the wronged.

[@dreamlife2351]

Separation of Church and State !!!

[@PeaShooter1997]

So the murderer can give out the death penalty twice for something so minor, but is exempt from receiving it because this dude is pro-life? Would someone who is truly pro-life let a hot head who is likely to kill again go on living? This world is strange🌎

[@sidthekid456]

If you are getting rid of the death penalty it should be life not 45 years someone could outlive that sentence. Give them 100 years.

[@Olivia-dg4fb]

Yeah life should be life, if this man doesn't get the death penalty then he doesn't deserve to walk free again.

[@mj3026]

I think if someone gets the death penalty then they should be put to death straight away especially if it’s been proven by DNA. because it’s not fair on the victim’s family to be dragged through hell for years & years for that person to die of natural causes, I hope the families get justice

[@lordzallen]

and the speedy execution makes errors more possible... execute one innocent man due to this... and blood will be on their hands and there will be retaliation both lawful (wrongful death suits) and unlawful (vengeance against judges/juries/cops, prosecutors) , plus killers would be more likely to go for mass killing due to the fact they gonna get executed anyway.

[@SharonWrightWeeks]

@@lordzallen you nailed it!! That is the exact reason they can't execute sooner. In my sister and nieces case there was no profession of innocence and they still couldn't get it done. It does not work.

[@soopermikey2767]

Never considered the time aspect before... Or the constant contact through the appeals process

[@shadrach6299]

I don’t understand revenge or what it accomplishes.

[@frosty_mentos1238]

The freaky part is that it all comes down to religion.

[@GeraltBosMang]

I feel like this part is going to be missed by a lot of people. Religion is holding the human race back from progress.

[@Fin4L6are]

It comes down to if there is anything you can imagine a man do that deserves death.

[@jimparsons9454]

No religion in existence advocates killing your fellow human.

[@Fin4L6are]

@@jimparsons9454 "Whoever strikes a man so that he dies shall be put to death." first quote on google

[@Affluent-Ghetto-Blackman]

@@jimparsons9454 and yet the true “Christians” and “Patriots” of this country boast about having the deadliest military in the world and are pro death penalty

[@JamesBu11]

I don't believe in the death penalty as a concept. But having said that, in this case where it is on the statutes, it is wholly appropriate to seek it when prosecuting. The accused is pleading not guilty therefore the higher charge should apply. The prosecutor allowing his own personal opinions to influence his choice is not doing the job that he was elected to do and should step down from the case or resign. He argues not that the crime doesn't fit the punishment but only that his moral pro life sentiment conflicts with the death penalty.

[@LexiRobinson-mj5pw]

Y’all realize some of these death row prisoners sit there for decades and sometimes die way before their execution. They also get multiple appeals to overturn it if the death penalty is sought

[@fenton3137]

Plenty of innocent people killed who were wrongfully executed since 1972...

[@by9917]

Charles Manson was not put to death, and his name is spoken all the time. Just sayin

[@sebastianoviedo253]

He’s also connected to the killing of Sharon Tate and her friends, and you have to include his followers

[@havisjohnson4146]

Yea and he was also a serial killer so there's that

[@sebastianoviedo253]

@@havisjohnson4146 yeah I’m saying him being connected to the killing of a pregnant actress and the “Manson family” help cause such publicity

[@havisjohnson4146]

@@sebastianoviedo253 yes I'm well aware, I was just adding on to prove your point...

[@rickysanders6487]

Manson's infamy came from the nature of his crimes more than the crimes themselves. He was the ringleader of a cult which based its teachings around drugs, pop-culture, and an apocalyptic race war. Combine all this with the fact that they murdered a celebrity in California (arguably the media capital of the world) an OF COURSE he's gonna be well-known. Most murderers aren't gonna have as high a profile because they don't carry the kind of baggage he and his band of nutjobs did. Sentencing them to death however may do two things. Firstly, the public (and thus the press) will think their crime must have been PARTICULARLY heinous. Secondly, their sentence will be dragged into another death penalty debate. This won't raise them to the status of the Manson family, but it will raise their profile in some way.

[@Asgoga]

Glad that whole Europe abolished death penalty for awhile, it's such amoral, archaic and ineffective punishment. Norway's prison and penitentiary system model is the best in the world , it shows that if you invest financially and non-financially in people who did the crime ( including murder ), they can change and be a normal, productive citizen.

[@csabakis4214]

Actually I doubt that - but I condemn the capital punishment because of an objective issue -> the possibility of error ...

[@joebeal4212]

As a former correctional officer I have come to believe that life without parole is cruel and unusual punishment . I think the death penalty is much more humane . We euthanize rabid dogs not to punish them , we do it because it is the humane thing to do .

[@baddreams0919]

Is as humane it goes against the universal declaration of human rights?

[@joebeal4212]

@@baddreams0919 I have worked with men who have been in prison for over fifty years for crimes so heinous I won't detail them here . Killing them would be a lot more humane . Several of them have killed and raped people even while they have been incarcerated.

[@betacuck3145]

But the anti death penalty side are anti death penalty, because they view it as inhumane.

[@GC-mh8ko]

some people deserve to live the same way some people deserve to die it’s the sad truth

[@skellowebbo880]

Have a good day!

[@rsohlich1]

You too 🤗

[@Liqoh]

you too

[@skellowebbo880]

@@rsohlich1 Thanks

[@skellowebbo880]

@@Liqoh Thanks

[@jrblackstar8767]

So it's all about the costs and religious beliefs..... If it's proven beyond a doubt, a death sentence should be expedited. Pro-life??? Allowing a killer to kill again or to die from natural causes... when their victims were robbed of their own life? I'm sure that his victims didn't want to die.

[@ebblue81]

The Prosecutor needs to leave his feelings at the door or give the job to someone who will.

[@karamiddleton2920]

Did you watch the video? Did none of the arguments cause you to pause, or are you simply unwilling to acknowledge that the death penalty doesn't work the way you wish it did?

[@Nimish204]

@@karamiddleton2920 Simple, even if the deterrent effect is negligible, we should implement. Because once you murder you lose all value you have.

[@thebirdcamnews1568]

40million and only 2 executions. Sounds like alot of lawyers and staff etc stuffing their pockets while the victims families carry the burden. The death penalty isn't the issue, its the fact that money is involved. ALOT of money. Jails make huge amounts of money for taking in inmates. They are cheap labor and the more horrible things they have done, the more the jail gets. It's all about the money, not the justice.

[@noodleface484]

Can we take "God" out of everything. It shouldn't be a factor in politics.

[@Dobviews]

🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆

[@reubenstewart7995]

If God is real then he should be a part of everything, including politics

[@bobjones4901]

I disagree with the statement: death penalty costs taxpayers more than life imprisonment. That is b/c the system allows endless appeals. However, this is assuming that the system if fair and accurate, which, is of course, very suspect.

[@dinsel9691]

Exactly, what is the point of the death penalty if its not carried out within 2 days?

[@techhawk1543]

The Death penalty was the reason people fear to commit crime & if that is gone you know what's next !

[@zelenskysboot361]

Statistics dispute that, but go ahead and believe the fallacy

[@HWEspana]

@@zelenskysboot361 No it worked with multiple Mafia dons in the past who were more than willing to spend their lives in prison and only flipped and turned government witness when they were facing the death penalty, these were huge witnesses that helped bring down the Mob.

[@Ash-ow5yc]

All of the statistical evidence says you’re objectively fucking wrong, but whatever makes you feel better I guess.

[@1398go]

If you think about it, our court system is designed to prolong sentences and profit it out as much as it can.

[@ikkivp5631]

Imagine having to deal with political issues along with losing your loved ones..

[@SharonWrightWeeks]

It's your own personal hell.

[@aryashatraw2821]

It's expensive and drags the families through a long process because of how the appeals process is currently set up. It isn't costly because it is some sort of rare metal which is in high demand and is hard to come by. The death penalty is expensive because of silly procedural problems. Vice just ran a great piece for reforming the death penalty process, but not for repealing the death penalty.

[@johnrichardallen4470]

Is not because few people are like "they can change, poor of them" that everybody thinks the same way. Imagine the mind of the killer knowing that just by killing someone he would never have to work again, will have shelter and food for the rest of his life. While the family of the victim will never be able to speak with the deceased loved ones, the murder receives a lot of letter from lovers and weird people, can marry and a lot of crap. Not to mention that many of them have the possibility of parole, there is not guarantee that they won't commit the same crimes again. And keep a protohuman alive for life means an enormous amount of money from the tax payers. I personally think there is a flaw in the death penalty system, the actions take too long to happen.

[@heristyono4755]

"Death penalty costs the taxpayers more than life in prison" What kind of fuckery is this?

[@heristyono4755]

@@michaelnurudeen7690 are they supposed to be expensive?

[@SharonWrightWeeks]

@@heristyono4755 They didn't used to be as expensive. The costs have blown up in the past 20 years. I believe it is because of the mistakes the Government has made in executing innocent people. None of us really trust the government anyway. Do we really trust them with this issue?

[@heristyono4755]

@@SharonWrightWeeks looks like no matter what the crime is, the taxpayers are the ones who have to pay for it.

[@MilkANDMagic]

People here keep talking about how the justice system is flawed and that innocent people will be put in death row, news flash, innocent people get put in life imprisonment too and that's just as bad. So should we just stop putting people in jail? Now i dont condone a death sentence without 100 percent certainty that the person committed the crime but once you cross that line where you are fully aware of what you're about to do to your victim then theres no turning back. You need to be punished for what you did. This is a complex issue without a doubt but i think too many people here are looking at this from a 3rd person point of view and not a first person point of view, as someone who would actually experience this type of crime happen to a loved one. If a person were to full knowingly murder my mother, then I will not rest until he gets the death penalty. Actually, screw that, just give him whatever he's more afraid of, whether life imprisonment or death. I want him/her to feel the same pain he/she inflicted on my loved one. Also intrigues me how people are okay with the killing of innocent children but not murderers, well if proven they are actually murderers

[@docej3025]

WHAT IS "100% CERTAINTY"? WITNESSES LIE. EVIDENCE IS MANUFACTURED. JURORS HAVE BIASES.

[@MilkANDMagic]

@@docej3025 Calm down, i did say it was a complex issue. Not a black and white case. If they have actual footage of the guy killing the person there's your 100 percent certainty over there. Thats a good start

[@locustswarminbound8702]

At least if it’s a life imp. case they’ll have a chance to appeal and new evidence can appear. You don’t get that if you’re dead. The reason we have a court system and a jury is so we can look at things and judge them from a 3rd person perspective. Human emotions blind us from true justice, we’ve understood this for awhile.

[@tuckerbugeater]

You can put someone in an animal cage for life yet you put them to sleep painlessly.

[@dinsel9691]

Forget the cage, that sounds nice, especially with a bed, a toilet. People are put in "solitary confinment" in a small cube with no windows, and no natural lights, and no bed and no toilet... How is that better than a lethal injection

[@SirStoneFace]

Bro it does not cost 40mil to kill a few people. lmao that dude did it with a few zip ties and a $30 blade!

[@mariolopez-rm4ee]

There's a lot of people that dig into tax payers pockets so these cases are good for the court system because they can deal it on forever and get paid

[@-xirx-]

Lawyers like to kill people slowly though. Much more profitable that way.

[@Ivan-Manzo]

Coming from a very violent and war-torn environment, I firmly believe that there are people who deserve to be killed for their crimes, I have seen things that no one should ever have to see and that perfectly justify the death penalty. That being said, I would never trust a government with the legal authority to kill like that, I can understand an active shooter or a cartel boss being killed in an emergency situation, but once the state has the authority to kill as a regular punishment it has the capability to abuse and misuse said power. You don't have to stop what you don't start, violence cycles are particularly egregious in that regard.

[@Ethan_Coble]

I always find it reassuring to see someone with consistent beliefs... The prosecutor stating that he's prolife and to stay consistent with it he extends that to even those who commit crimes. It's beautiful when we can see value in all human life.

[@nevadag606]

The monster in question saw no value in those teenagers lives when he shoved them down a mine shaft. People who are capable of killing another human being (outside of war or a survival situation) are monsters with no decency left in their soul. Waste of tax payer money sending them to prison to rot.

[@Ethan_Coble]

@@nevadag606 1. It's actually a bigger waste of money to give them the death sentence. 2. While actions can be heinously made, there is always an opportunity for one to rehabilitate. 3. True justice is making right on one's wrongdoings. Taking away that possibility is simply just opting for redemptive vengeance over justice. 4. The saying an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind exists for a reason.

[@nevadag606]

Ethan Coble how does one make right for taking another life?

[@utubefreshie]

In cases like this, seems the right thing to do is to follow the wishes of the family. If they want the death penalty as justice, so be it. They deserve that much. The victim's father is right. There's no rehabilitating this criminal. And there's many other sociopaths just like him. Some people who can't act like normal human beings don't deserve to live.

[@cupguin]

What are their actual wishes? Because if you could guarantee that this specific person would be found guilty and executed in a fashion that provided actual comfort to the families I could agree, but that's not what they're going to endure. If the death penalty was sought they would be dragged into court for years if not decades, forced to relieve their nightmare over and over and for what? Maybe a chance that one day he might be executed? Court cases that linger for years don't provide closure even if there's a chance of an execution at the end of it.

[@utubefreshie]

@@cupguin Then the question is not the death penalty but the process. The woman whose sister was murdered in the 80s said as much. The interviewer asked her: If capital punishment came sooner, would you support it? She said yes. So it sounds to me it's not the death penalty that was the problem but the process in which it's finally arrived at which apparently, in many cases, it doesn't even get there. I personally just think it's a double injustice that the other family was asked if they wanted capital punishment for their son and niece. They said yes then that choice was taken away from them. That is the part to me that's messed up. And the part with the state prosecutor that seems to just be grandstanding his views on morality at this point. That's not his job. His job is to gain justice for the victims. If Utah then decides they want to get rid of the death penalty because it's problematic then they can do so after this particular case has been decided. That seems like the just thing to do.

[@cupguin]

@@utubefreshie so here's where I think we're disagreeing. I agree this was poorly handled with the family, I could argue that the role of a prosecutor is, but I agree in general terms. My issues is these families, and countless others, were offered option A or option B. They pick option A. This prosecutor is being honest when he says option A is not actually as described. There is no way for him under the current system to deliver option A. What he can offer is something with the same name that takes longer, inflicts years or decades of trauma and is of dubious benefit to society. So instead he's going with option B, which was always his discretion, and option B actually provides a lot of more of the benefits they want from option A. Or specifically they want this hypothetical reformed version of the death penalty they thought they were going to get, when that's not on the table. There's no way for this prosecutor to provide it, and no matter how nice it sounds, it doesn't exist. We could argue all day about a theoretical death penalty, I bet we could even sketch out a system we could both agree on. But that's not real life. Prosecutors should be more honest with families, with the public, and with politicians. The death penalty people want that increases public safety, saves money, provides closure for families, that's a potential future death penalty. What's on offer right now in Utah is years of trials and publicity and added emotional trauma for an end result that is essential what you get without a capital charge, life in prison. So if I was to tell you there's two options, and realistically they'll both end with the same result, but one is going to drag you through the court system and make your tragedy public fodder for years to come, which do you pick?

[@ryandaverayla4910]

I think individuals who clearly pose a threat to others should be dealt with according to the means of a community/society. If a community or society has the means to rehabilitate the person (to a certain number of attempts) then do so. But if an individual is too dangerous or does not change, then why waste resources on them? We have to think about the common good as paramount, individual lives are subordinate to it.

[@ryandaverayla4910]

@You can eat in class!! so you'd rather keep dangerous unrehabilitable criminals in prison, in a life that is largely unproductive for the individual and the community? Do you really have an argument or are just here to make strawmen?

[@Nimish204]

Unless you can guarantee 100% that they won't commit a crime again, life imprisonment with no parole for all murders, rapes and sexual assault

[@BobMarley-vl5gl]

I have a solution, the victim has the right to challenge the offender to trial by combat.

[@wfjhDUI]

3:20 Maybe this is a weird take but I really don't understand why people plead guilty just to avoid the death penalty. Who cares? Honestly, if I absolutely had to choose, the death penalty actually sounds *way* better than life in prison. With the death penalty you don't have to spend as much time in prison and you get a lot more attention from the outside world in terms of appeals and media coverage. Plus, by the time they finally get around to executing you it'd most likely only take ~10-20 years off your life anyway, and spending those years growing old in prison would have been fucking awful. It's not like the alternative is to explore the world and "live, laugh, love". The alternative is to live the last years of your life getting bullied by the younger prisoners and impatiently waiting for the sweet release of death to *finally* set you free.

[@SharonWrightWeeks]

That is NOT happening! No one is executed in Utah. Did you watch the whole story?

[@silverhammermba]

An innocent person would, if they believe the system is too corrupt or the evidence too strong to exonerate them.

[@wfjhDUI]

@@silverhammermba Yeah, it only makes sense to me if you think you'll somehow be released. But even then, you probably have a better chance of being exonerated if you're on death row.

[@wokeaf1337]

So how does an injection due to the death penalty cost more than a lifetime in prison?

[@wokeaf1337]

After thinking a while it may be because prisoners who work make money for the state ...

[@armaanbrar9563]

Nobody wants to kill them so they have to pay a lot of money to those guys