The Debate We All Want on Spiritual Gifts, John MacArthur vs Dr. Michael Brown, Part 2

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Bio: Ruslan KD is a Christian KZbinr of Armenian descent who was a refugee from Baku, Azerbaijan, before moving to the United States as a child. He started his KZbin channel in the mid-2010s, which has since grown into a popular platform for discussing faith, lifestyle, and music. Known for his insightful commentary on Christian living, culture, and personal development, Ruslan has built a community of followers who value his thoughtful approach to contemporary issues. In addition to his KZbin presence, Ruslan is a speaker, author, and advocate for godly ambition, often addressing topics related to leadership, mental health, and the integration of faith in everyday life.
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[@shabach3120]

.."Baptists in Africa cast out demons..."well said. For many of us Africans the question is often not whether one has spiritual gifts, but rather the source of those gifts. Yeah, we know all about the excesses of some charismatics but you don't throw away baby with the bath water.

[@drewwilson6639]

Amen couldn't agree more!

[@madcow9421]

Phil Johnson “we must throw the baby out with bath water”.

[@kevinjohnson3521]

I say Charismatics are NOT Pentecostals because they allow the influence of the Vatican. Your initial statement is a GREAT POINT! McArthur is committing Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost to me. He cannot be saved by the Comforter cause John rejects the way the Holy Ghost comes.

[@J_a_s_o_n]

@@kevinjohnson3521 LIAR! Charismatics have nothing to do with the Vatican unless you are speaking about the Catholic Charismatics. That's how God breaks down cults. I know afew who left Catholicism after seeing charisma- power of God in play.

[@kevinjohnson3521]

@@J_a_s_o_n you have no clue what you are talking about, hence why they are not called Pentecostals… lack of knowledge?!?!

[@lukebishop104]

The Bible teaches that signs, miracles, and wonders were to testify that Jesus was who He said He was. For the apostles it testified that their testimony was true. Authority is known by its power. How can one know if Christ has absolute authority if there is no demonstration of power? Mark 2:10 But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins...” Often times it is the miraculous signs that the Holy Spirit performs through weak men that will allow for the heart of a man to be willing to hear the gospel that faith might come. There are so many testimonies of people who would have never been willing to hear the gospel if it weren’t for a miracle. My question is that if these men of old, if Jesus Himself even needed miracles to testify of the message of the cross, why not us? Have we outgrown the need for the manifestation of God’s power? With this said let our focus be on the giver of the gifts and not the gifts themselves. They are mere tools used for the advancement of the Kingdom of God on earth. God bless.

[@austinlehman2524]

Well said.

[@rajaduraisharoan1790]

Spot on!!! Today many ministers try to use the gifts as advertisement to themselves when god gives them gifts and fails miserablely in fruits of spirt... That is why so many frown upon gifts of spirit... Gifts are just tool that work in sidelines to prove the gospel and not the main picture itself... As to the question why we don't see mighty prophets like Elijah is because god is still looking for a person who can commit to him the way Elijah did... But sadly we all fall short on that journey... We should pray to god to raise Elijahs, billy Grahams, Reinhard bonnkes and smith wigglesworths today!!!

[@Hifil07]

In Africa, being exposed to so many manifestations of witchcraft can only do one thing to you: seek the power of God. We understood that only having a solid theology doesn't protect you, your family and change situations. (I've heard and witnessed some weird stuff)

[@darkincognito3826]

Preach it man.

[@leborapulana9813]

I'm an African and I agree...Its almost impossible to alienate yourself from the beautiful and liberating Gifts of the Spirit because of the dire need we have as Africans.

[@kingpauljoel6827]

In africa even the atheist know that is difficult to deny the existence of witchcraft.

[@leborapulana9813]

That's so true..

[@kevinjohnson3521]

@@kingpauljoel6827 well said.

[@STEVENOFNORTH]

If cessationism were true, I wouldn't be a Christian today. I am a former atheist, but 11 years ago, a group of believers laid their hands on me and prayed in the name of Jesus. I immediately experienced deliverance, supernatural healing, and baptism in the Holy Spirit (all in a manner consistent with the New Testament writings). In the years since, I have witnessed the same happen for several others after I prayed for them in the name of Jesus. In light of this my take on the debate is that to deny contemporary 'acts' (for there is a multitude apart from my experiences) renders all accounts demonic or natural. The issue with this is doing so runs contrary to both the volume and nature of the evidence. While a person with no experience would be justified in applying a degree of skepticism to such claims, it doesn't stand to reason to blatantly deny them outright, given that so many Christians testify to their legitimacy. And thats without mentioning the fact that no scriptural exegesis can actually unequivolcally support the claim that the new testament indicates gifts have 'ceased'.

[@KathleenJade]

@Sovereign Grace Runner Yes, i am pretty sure he knows that. He is just stating his testimony.

[@KathleenJade]

AMEN! Happy Jesus set you free and that the people praying for you, were obedient to leading of the Holy Spirit.

[@KathleenJade]

@Sovereign Grace Runner Jesus gets the glory. the fact that he is saved and experienced delivered. :) the Lord glories in salvation. Yes in Christ alone. It's not good to assume, that he is denying that. Lol 🤣 He may not of worded it just like you did. But from his comment, you can discern the heart and spirit behind it. Be blessed

[@KathleenJade]

@Sovereign Grace Runner yes.... i am quite aware. have a good day :)

[@andrewmontague1339]

@Sovereign Grace Runner He said people laid hands on him in the name of Jesus and he was delivered. He acknowledged that it was in Jesus name ( authority ) that he received salvation. The way in which he was saved doesn't diminish Christ but it exalts Christ. So, yes, it's in Christ alone he was saved.

[@laurenbailey4145]

One thing that confuses me about cessationism is that when you look at the gifts of the Spirit they are all super practical for carrying out ministry. Just look in Acts and you see the Spirit helping them know who to talk to, who not to talk to, where to go, where not to go, helping heal and set free, encourage and rebuke. All of these things are super powerful in helping advance the kingdom of God and to direct ministries in practical ways. To assume that God doesn't want to still do that today is very shallow thinking in my mind. Especially when we see the enemy doing supernatural things and pushing evil forward, why would God not want us to be supernaturally empowered to push back darkness?

[@travis6694]

Lauren, I agree with you. The main thing I see or have heard from others is the emphasis and central focus of the spiritual gifts per say. That a lot do it for themselves and not to serve the kingdom of God with gifts. And I think the “feeling” emphasis causes a lot of issues. This is where a lot of the negative view comes from I believe. Btw I go to a charismatic church because people love Jesus there and it’s a great place to fellowship.

[@awesomenessindaface]

This! Yes! 🙌

[@lionofjudahlambofgod9132]

Amen

[@Ryan-qh7ed]

@Reformed Church of Christ Roman's 12:21 | Ephesians 6:10-18 | 2 Corinthians 10:4-6

[@travisrosenthal398]

@Reformed Church of Christ with all due respect, you should reread the gospels and the rest of the New Testament. It is literally full of verses that show our authority over satan and demons through Christ.

[@crazyvoice12]

That's my main thing with John MacArthur. He won't actually connect with those he disagrees with. When the apostle Paul took issue with someones theology, he confronted them whether through letter or in person. This should be the model

[@misterrees]

We need crazy generation... crazy-matics, that pray crazy, worship God crazy, and that go after the devil and witches crazily!!!

[@gabegringo4155]

If a first Century Christian could see and hear the beliefs that are espoused in churches today, he or she would be shocked! "My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power." 1 COR 2:3-5. Miracles, signs, and wonders were the norm. The idea that they ceased after the last disciple died is a theological idea added over 1500 years later. Send the fire!

[@brianwhitacre4558]

Sure we're all apostle's and have the same power? No, they demonstrated that Christ was actually the Messiah, I believe and God confirmed that with miracles, signs, and wonders. Specific times, specific people, 1 Lord. Gods stamp is approval on His 1 and only son. The church birthed and empowered. Many incredible things happened. Do you see ppl walking around today healing other people with rags. Raining down fire 🔥 I haven't, not saying it isn't possible, but 1 Corinthians 13 v 8 makes a good case that tongues WILL cease and in the later books of Ephesians and Romans where spiritual gifts are extensively spoken about tongues is nowhere to be found and that's an older era in the church. Wonder why not? What happened to tomorrow in the midst prevalent spiritual gifts speaking books on the Bible. Cessation makes a good case their JS

[@StEpHeNno22]

@@brianwhitacre4558Ok, there’s a lot here so let’s just start with your first remark “sure we’re all apostles and have the same power?” In Acts 6:5, where it mentions Stephen and Philip, were these men apostles, yes or no? And did they perform signs as apostles did (seems to say so in Acts 6:8, and Acts 8:6)?

[@suzannemartin6817]

@@brianwhitacre4558but God gave, by the Holy Spirit, gifts to men. You are suggesting that God took some back back. Yes tongues will cease but they haven’t ceased yet. The gifts haven’t gone away. Why would God take away a gift He had given to ThecChurch.? May I recommend Daniel Kolenda’s podcast on tongues. It is here on KZbin

[@josephdoctor6423]

I believe miracles exists so does John MacArthur, many hyper charismatic fake miracles and many Cessationists neglect the holy spirit, I think there needs to be a balance and that is where I fully agree with Mike Winger and Allan Parr teachings

[@doug_peterson]

agreed

[@lionofjudahlambofgod9132]

Amen.

[@suzannemartin6817]

Hmmm balance can be a scary word when it comes to the supernatural. It seems we will ether make room for it o we won’t or we will be “okay” with it as long as we can control it.

[@josephdoctor6423]

@@suzannemartin6817 we make room for it

[@dylanmilks]

It pains me greatly to hear guys like Chris Rosebrough says that charismatics worship a different God. It's just sad. Certainly, the charismatic movement is guilty of a lot of sins, excess and overindulgence, which should be rightly called out, but oftentimes the cessationists behave like Pharasees.

[@MrsEyerick]

💯

[@Adanwanyi]

Agreed

[@edwinalvarez1619]

Your right,. I enjoy Chris's sermons, he is very knowledgeable but he is very one sided on certain issues.

[@bidzam]

Well the fact that we have denominations is the biggest problem to begin with. I'm starting to question the notion that God is behind denominationalism but I think it's the error of men. Should we dismiss healing, prophecy or speaking in tongues the answer is NO, whoever should we discern the Spirit behind all this YES. Even we need to evaluate the teachings cessationalists even on their teachings as they tend to be mainly focused on that. However we have to also put importance on the fundamentals of the Gospel first as justification and sanctification is driven by the Word of God. You can get healed today but still you're going to go through a mortal death.

[@eskews__me]

Some of them do...it’s definitely still orthodox to believe in the miraculous gifts, but many charismatic leaders seem to throw the Bible away in favor of experience and when you throw the Bible out, you leave the God of the Bible as well. For instance, the God of the Bible always tells the truth and speaks inerrantly. But to some people, god speaks fallibly today and therefore that must be a different god.

[@djhu306]

Keep doing what you do bro... I don't always agree but your content is provocative and well presented.

[@bobs8005]

That’s the respect that is often lacking on KZbin

[@grandmoffporkins]

What a thoughtful, even-tempered and respectful response. Dang. More of that please.

[@eduxyr]

I can 100% assure you as somebody who lives in baptist church in africa it is common seeing demons being casted out and tongues being spoken

[@dorianromero6293]

Dude this was so helpful man , his demeanor , and tone , the way he carried himself was just wow , something I wouldn’t expect from pastor John M . I know he has some sound teaching and loves the Lord and desire the Lost to be saved but his body language comes off really proud and better and knowing all things . But I was raise in a legalistic church and have been finding myself in the middle ground more but I’m noticing things like how there’s no biblical scripture that says that tongues have ended. And if we do pray over someone to be healed at the end of the day it’s God’s power not mine through the spirit all these things happen ! May God continue to bless your channel Ruslan it really is helping

[@dorianromero6293]

There are a lot of bad experiences out there though

[@brianwhitacre4558]

1st Corinthians 13 v 8 , tongues will cease, when🤷 that's the debate

[@suzannemartin6817]

@@brianwhitacre4558”in the mouths of two or three witnesses shall all things be established” it is unwise to try to build a doctrine around half of one verse.

[@josemolina8230]

@@suzannemartin6817Pentecostals do the same, in the same chapter they make a whole doctrine of angelic tongues just off one verse

[@ofeliaclaudio6379]

Praise God for Dr. Brown!!!! I've been praying for JMAC to be baptized in the Holy Spirit!!!! John Osteen, the father of Joel Osteen, a dyed-in-the-wool BAPTIST, got baptized in the Spirit, spoke in tongues (he was so hungry for God, he said) and got kicked out of his denomination! Let's all pray for ALL pastors to experience the BAPTISM IN THE SPIRIT!!! John the Baptist said , "But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." Jesus is the ONE Who will baptize them with FIRE!!!!

[@MapleBoarder78]

00:44 “Why is this such a polarizing topic?” Let me clarify my position by stating that I do believe in the gifts, tongues, miracles and prophecy today. Now having said that… I’d venture to say the large amount of abuse and the large potential for abuse in the Charismatic sector can lead people to err on the side of caution or avoid it completely. Unfortunately speaking in tongues or claiming the gift of prophecy (when vague enough) can be easily faked. A charismatic church in our area would often have times where members would fall to the ground, roll around and start rambling unintelligibly. There was a girl there who would pretend and fall to the ground copying them as well. Why would someone fake it? Lots of reasons. Fear of being an outcast, fear of being labeled a false Christian, fear of letting friends or family down, wanting attention, wanting to feel important…ect. How many others were just “playing along?” 5%? 50%? 80%? Who knows. How many had convinced themselves it was really happening when in fact it was just psychosomatic? Just to clarify, I’m not saying that’s always the case, but we should be charitable in understanding the reality of what can go on at many Charismatic churches and the reason people may shy away from that environment. At another church it was common practice during prayer for the adult members to wail loudly, cry, and flail around. Many of the children would look around confused wondering what was happening. Other children who were more used to the environment would follow suit. They would look around, see what the grown ups were doing and think, “Hey, this is how the grown ups act when they pray, I’ll do that to.” And so it becomes expected of you to wail and flail during prayer time because “that’s what everyone else does” and I don’t want to be the odd one out. I guess the purpose of my post is that we should be charitable to both sides and be willing to admit there are credible reasons why many people feel the need to avoid Charismatic environments. I believe there are legitimate concerns that should be addressed more often, rather than casually brushing them aside as perhaps “cessationist propaganda”.

[@beniblakelock6933]

McArthur will not debate. If he does he will lose all his follower. That’s why you teach people to follow Christ not you (because you have the only truth) humility is the key ❤

[@johornbuckle5272]

Even though i am not reformed nor will i be, Macarthur is solid

[@sandyzalecki1145]

I used to work with the man who was the number one distributor of John MacArthur bibles in the world. I loved him. He did a great prison ministries, but he didn't believe that anything was a miracle. I thought that was strange until I learned about the beliefs of John MacArthur. John MacArthur is a good theologian but he is wrong on a few things.

[@psyclonus]

REAL WRONG

[@decunningham410]

I've never heard him say he doesn't believe in miracles

[@raphaelfeneje486]

@@decunningham410 He said he doesn't

[@ibelieveitcauseiseentit9630]

​@@raphaelfeneje486 No he didn't.

[@raphaelfeneje486]

@@ibelieveitcauseiseentit9630 what are you saying??😕

[@briancornish5857]

In order to solve this problem Worldwide GOD HIMSELF SAID that in the Last days HE would pour Out His Spirit upon the WHOLE World..Problem Solved..🕊🔥 🌎 🔥 🕊

[@kevinwiens4804]

1 Corinthians 14:17-19 King James Version (Paul) I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue ? And "Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 1 Corinthians 14:39. Sola Scriptura.. John MacArthur will never debate on this subject of speaking in tongues because he simply can't defend his position...scripturally..

[@preacher-man3591]

Just commenting to support the channel man.

[@shepherdhavenhomestead]

I don't think any cessationist, J-Mac included, would deny or disregard an account of biblical tongues; aka an english speaking person speaking mandarin to a mandarin speaking person without training, knowledge, or say google translate. Shouldboughtahyundai or Usedtohaveamitsubishi is NOT biblical tongues. Not in Acts, not in 1 Corinthians. And, for the record, I'm not a cessationist hatin on Dr. Brown and the continuing crowd. The problem with this conversation is Rus and Dr. B were discussin straw men on both sides... I do agree, a conversation with someone like Dr. B and J-Mac would be awesome.

[@doug_peterson]

agreed

[@RuslanKD]

well that J-Mac or whoever should be ok with the smoke. it appears they aren't willing to debate. I stand with Dr. Brown on this. it's fairly clear in scripture.

[@shepherdhavenhomestead]

@@RuslanKD Would "unity" allow us to stand with both men? That's where I stand. While they may disagree on some issues (and I probably disagree with both of them at times), perhaps even key issues; like you've said before, in the essentials unity, etc... Maybe a good conversation would be what does "unity" actually mean? Was Jesus "united" with Peter when He told him, "get behind me satan"? Was Paul united with Peter when he called him out by name? Unity is in the Spirit... There is one body, one Spirit, one hope, one Lord, one faith. We may look and sound different, but, it's the same Spirit that indwells us all. J-Mac and Dr. B. Disagreement doesn't mean disunity. While the world may claim that, it's simply false. They need the Truth and we can proclaim it to them.

[@madcow9421]

Ok show me say let’s say a dozen times where they have said this is the legitimate version, if you say “of course I do not forbid speaking in tongues” but then forbid every instance of it then all that makes you is a hypocrite, not genuine sincere belief that the gift is legitimate TODAY. So have Phil Johnson confirm several instances where they’ve permitted, endorsed wholehearted agreed with the practice. It will be easy for you as he is obviously no hyprocrite. All I’ve seen is them say “we do not forbid,...” meaning “we strictly forbid ...” just an observation and a genuinely hope you can prove me wrong tbh

[@shepherdhavenhomestead]

@@madcow9421 assuming this is directed to me, could you please clarify? I don’t understand the question.

[@ClauGutierrezY]

Ruslan brother, I said it before but I will say it again. Your content is evolving so much and the interviews are so on point. I'm happy for you keep it up mate. Cheers! 🇨🇱🇬🇧

[@lonnieridgeway3722]

I was stopped dead in thought when he said, “if people were left in a room alone with a Bible and were fluent in speaking Greek and Hebrew, they would walk away understanding the gifts are continued and for today!” I think about the times when I’ve wavered or questioned what I believe about the gifts and it’s always when a communicator I admire tells me that the gifts of the Spirit aren’t for today. But then I read scripture and take an honest look at my own experiences and those of people who mentor me and I trust and have years of proven longevity of being a faithful follower of Christ that I shake off and keep what that communicator says that’s biblical while allowing the unbiblical teachings to fall away. Good interview!

[@RuslanKD]

EXACTLY!!!

[@geraldpchuagmail]

Same reaction man. I haven't thought of that experiment.

[@brandonpemberton5707]

​@@RuslanKDno. Get out of yourself and experience and into the Word. It denotes in plain language what and who the signs were for. Start seeing the completed scriptures as Divinely inspired AND preserved. IT IS more than sufficient for the faith and building up of His members. The gifts are not Peter Pan food than only appears if you believe in it enough. And they don't drop dead like fairies when someone claims not to believe. The Spirit bestowed them upon saints as he saw fit. There's no such thing as certain gifts only manifesting among groups who believe in them🙏🏽

[@RellGiles]

Johnny Mac been duckin that smoke 😆 I’d pay to watch that debate.

[@travis6694]

He don’t want no smoke 😤

[@drewwilson6639]

A fan of both but I'm pretty confident Macarther would get destroyed in a debate with Dr.Brown

[@mastermisandelathrope8667]

@@drewwilson6639 At least regarding tongues MacArthur could win on this minor sense: the tongues spoken by contemporary Evangelicals are just glossolalia. They've no linguistic structure, they're just gibberish. If angels speak a phonetic language, there'd be a phrasal structure (nouns, verbs, prepositions etc.). That glossolalia can even appear in other religious manifestations when members of such religions are "high on their emotions". On the Cessasionist side regarding miracles, Macarthur for sure would lose on Biblical grounds, but could make a good case in the real world: you don't have any documentation that's not open to question. If you had, for example, a clear documented case of a man that was born without an arm and, after some prayer, his arm had grown, it would be an unquestionable miracle. You have 0 of those. All is open to question (wrong diagnoses, weak witnesses etc.). Pastor Macarthur would lose in general because of what is written in the Bible, however, he could at least make a good case against many of the Charismatic exaggerations and farce. If he studied well Dr. Brown's arguments, he wouldn't get destroyed, that's for sure.

[@ibelieveitcauseiseentit9630]

I have a John Macarthur study Bible right by my bed and he's a good teacher in many ways. But McArthur is dead wrong on this subject. God certainly still does miracles, he still talks to people both audibly and inaudibly, and through dreams. He has to me, to my pastor, to people at my church. And to countless others. But people like McArthur have obviously never had things like this happen to him, so he doesn't believe they happen to other people. He's wrong, they do.

[@deborahbush6320]

I had to shake my head when DR Brown said it’s the cessationism church that’s getting smaller because and so he Credits his way right surly he’s forgotten wide is the road to destruction but narrow is the way to life and few find it

[@jarheartfaith4341]

God bless all who read this in the mighty powerful name of Jesus Christ amen

[@davebonar1]

Benny Hinn worth 75 million , Kenneth Copeland worth over 200 million , I could go on and on about these leaders in these movements. I rest my case.

[@rajaduraisharoan1790]

Its problem with people... When we ask questions, are we also looking at Reinhard bonnke, sadhu sunder singh, smith wigglesworth, dgs dhinakaran etc... These people also exist... When a ministry grow, it also grows economically and those ministers have to handle the aspects of money and finances also .. it comes down to are they being truthful before god and it is for god to judge them if they failed because they are his servents... Lastly Bible unequivocally states " Never trust a breathing person"... It applies to all... All ministers are to show the life of Jesus in everything instead of themselves

[@BlancheNtrOy]

Look up Derek Prince and you’ll find him refreshing. So far from Hinn and Copeland. A true man of God who biblically taught gifts of the spirit

[@rosethao6004]

McArthur makes people uncomfortable because they know they are sinners. It’s not his job to make you feel good it’s to tell you the truth. And the truth is we are all born wicked and need Jesus

[@Fablelord1]

I've started this conversation with a couple of my high school students about spiritual gifts. If the God we believe in is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, why would spiritual gifts stop being a thing? The only clear answer to that it would be for God's glory, but equally so for spiritual gifts to continue to be used today. I think of 1 Corinthians 12-14, that spiritual gifts manifest when we are glorifying God from a place of love and loving those around us. If there is no love, then why would a spiritual gift or miracle manifest?

[@codyross9660]

So God has always given people spiritual gifts throughout all of human history?

[@Fablelord1]

@@codyross9660 I probably sit on a different side of this then most people, but yes. It may not be in the same way, or maybe even the same gifts, but yeah. The obvious answer is the prophets. They would not be who they were if God didn't specifically call them and gifted them to preach and prophesy. I think it's super cool how that happens. More specifically, there's a scene in Exodus when God says he has specifically gifted craftsmen to build the tent of meeting. Joseph was gifted with visions and the ability to interpret them in Genesis. There are probably more old testament figures that have received spiritual gifts, but these are the ones that come to immediate mind.

[@HvV_FilmRoom]

Cessationism does not claim that spiritual gifts have ceased. It claims that the **sign gifts** have ceased.

[@rajaduraisharoan1790]

In countries like mine (india), you can't evangelise without the power of holy spirit... If cessation theory is true, india would have 0 Christians today!!!

[@mariembuenaventura1278]

Both extremes should be more open for discussions.

[@terrybarge9090]

To understand the gulf between Charismatic Christians & modern day Cessationists, it’s a good idea to look at the gulf between Jesus’ teachings and his ministry with the beliefs and behaviours of the Pharisees & Sadducees- it’s an almost identical dynamic. Who would you have embraced and followed?

[@johnm2567]

“You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.” ‭‭John‬ ‭5:39-40‬ ‭

[@ashpooh1105]

The problem is there are rarely any authentic pastors or churches. Everyone gets so caught up in this movement and the emotions and the excitement that they miss the true gospel. They miss the mark. I am not saying I am a cessationist, but I am saying that there are way too many false teachers that build their whole ministries on healings and speaking in tongues that they do not even teach about the gospel of Jesus Christ. They create their own God. I hear people say so much that "I believe in healing and "I believe in speaking in tongues"..etc... NO.... What you should be saying and what should be in your heart is that you believe in Jesus Christ and what he did for us and if he so wills it then along with the holy spirit, these things are possible and for God's purpose and his purpose alone!

[@TheScottReedShow]

Technically not a debate if the other person isn’t present.

[@quantaviousjenkins7667]

Something that alot of people will not recognize, but is true, our past experiences does indeed shape how we read and interpret the Bible. Majority of cessationists grew up/got saved in a more reformed type of church. Personally, I have yet to read a very Biblically compelling argument for cessationism. Whethe they would outright say it or not, their argument basically comes down to, "these type of churches look so very different, weird and confusing to us, so that must mean they are all faking everything." I will be transparent, and say that when I got saved, it was definitely in a supernatural way. I did speak in tongues in that moment.

[@incredable6211]

I was raised reformed, I found a serious relationship w Jesus in the charis movement, yup there were eccesses, I'm quite a bit more moderate now. So much of the argument for cessationism is that it doesn't seem "normal" John M's talks are peppered w this theme of what is "normal" or what is historically accepted. I Cor 14:39 don't forbid speaking w tongues, that's pretty clear, if that's not part of your Christianity, ok, I don't think your going to hell, but demonizing those who follow what that Corinthian letter encorages is wrong. My "hearing" God "speak" to me doesn't add to or diminish the cannon as long as it stays w/i what the bible teaches. My favorite old hymn is "I come to the garden along" it's an old hymn I learned from my "reformed" parents, theres the part that goes "and He walks with me and He talks with me and He tells me I am His own'" This speaks to a relationship of love that all of us desire. So stop chucking rocks at each other, let's love one another.

[@skillfulswordsman9035]

I still don't know why someone would read the Bible and become a cessationists. I feel it is a good way of shuning away from the fear of knowing God's power. Read 1 Corinthians 14 and even Paul teaches us to exercise spiritual gifts when we come for service. How come many ignore that but want to oush the idea that women should remain silent in churches?

[@ethanplacella]

This was always my major complaint about MacArthur. The verse he uses against the gifts of the spirit doesn’t support his argument. Ironically after that verse, the rest of the New Testament you have the apostle Paul admonishing and encouraging people to actively seek out the gifts of the spirit. But Johnny Mac says otherwise…? 🤔 Another thing touched upon in this video just confirmed another thing I’ve always felt about MacArthur but couldn’t put my finger on it. He’s all head knowledge about the Bible and grace but doesn’t know it practically IMO. He finds it weird and uncomfortable to have personal prayer and intimacy with the Father? All head knowledge with no heart experience it seems..

[@phil3924]

I really like John McArthur but think he is wrong on this one. His preaching is very academic and sort of sterile. Scripture mentions miracles and never said they would cease. There were places Jesus couldn’t do miracles because of a lack of faith. I’m pretty sure that’s why you hear about them happening more in developing countries. Some of the strongest believers I have ever met have been charismatic types.

[@nanabonandtatasfamilyadven486]

I attend a apostolic/Pentecostal Church. We believe in the gifts of the Spirit. We believe in Mark 16:17. We who are charismatic can fall short at times. We need to make sure that before we speak a word, that is not coming from our flesh but of the spirit. Some are guilty of making false prophecies. I always say we shall know them by the fruit that they produce. There are many other brothers in Christ from different backgrounds and religions that God uses mightly. I think everyone needs to be careful on judging different types of backgrounds. God can use anyone.We cannot put God in a box! ❤️

[@RabbiMurray]

Spoken like a true charismatic. Box box box so silly

[@gonzo_-ww4iq]

Now I'm don't identify as charismatic or pentecostal I'm just a follower of Christ and I just want to know how come people in those moments ignore 1 Corinthians 14 26-27 when speaking in tongues?

[@Eka5304]

Dr Brown spoke with so much grace. Whether we agree on not with him which I do but he was so gracious n non confrontational 🙏🏿

[@cadillacjack3240]

Its pretty audacious of Macarthur to sell a study bible with majority of the bible being his notes. Which leads me to believe Macarthur doesn't want the scriptures to lead you to truth but for the bible to be filtered through MacArthur's theology. I grew up around Macarthur idol worshipers. He even spoke at the church I grew up in. If you dressed conservative, was clean cut, could put on your church smile and have a good Sunday handshake you were one of them. Safety bubble christians.

[@RuslanKD]

His commentary (when I read decades ago) on 1 Cor 12, 13 and14 are WILD. That’s when I was like... nah I’m good.

[@cadillacjack3240]

@Sovereign Grace Runner when there's more MacArthur's words in his study bible than there are the words of the bible, are you are letting the Word of God which is sharper than any two edge sword be your guide to truth or is Macarthur standing between you and the scriptures and saying "no, this is what it really means." Macarthur types would rather have heady and deep conversations about theology before they share testimonies about their help for the poor and needy. Missionaries all over the world funded by Macarthur followers but wouldn't cross the tracks in their own town for fear of what the news says about the poor and needy rather than what the bible says.

[@dareemmanuel6079]

@@RuslanKD if you really want the debate to happen, you might want to come off as ‘neutral’. Unfortunately, most people don’t want to debate when they sense the moderator leans to one side. This is of course all irrelevant if you won’t be moderating. God bless you and thanks for this.

[@actackett24]

$125 for a sweatshirt!? 🤔

[@1InsideMan]

Ask MB to give you an exegsis on Mathew 7:21-23 Lord Lord.

[@James-m9g7y]

" I have not sent them, appointed them, or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolataries, and the delusions of their own minds." Jeremiah 14:14

[@geelamar3542]

Believe that the gifts are available but not convince what is being seen in some American churches are those true gifts according to the scriptures.

[@jekkajo]

I would so pay to watch a debate between these two.

[@garycasebier7909]

R T Kendall has a great book on this subject as well. He actually released it about the same time Strange Fire was released. Kendall does a great job in fusing Refomed theology with a continuist perspective. The book is called Holy Fire and highly recommend it. I would highly recommend handing it out to continuist skeptics as well.

[@Levi-rl3fu]

The emphasis on sola scriptura is interesting to me coming from those who don’t think that unregenerate people are capable of believing upon hearing the gospel (without a separate regenerative act of God on their hearts). That Calvinistic thought process seems to demean the power of Scripture rather than elevating it. I love Dr. Brown and agree this debate could be very helpful for many.

[@heat305rc]

on the contrary my brother it reaffirms it

[@Levi-rl3fu]

@@heat305rc Can an unregenerate person understand Scripture? Or do they need to be regenerated first?

[@joshualloyd2915]

I think John MacArthur’s views on salvation are significantly more concerning.

[@Oaksoh]

I know T.D. Jakes is questionable but I remember in one of his interviews (might've been clipped on your channel) he brought up that black churches didn't have that privilege of dividing over so many issues - I feel like that's a thing with cessation and continuation in the western church. In other countries we see churches as a family, all worshipping however they please, where here in the west there's a division between tongues, how others worship, expository preaching vs preaching on a set of scriptures. It's crazy how we see all this when you read the epistles and it talks so much about brotherly love and being one body.

[@MrHotrod888888]

You ask why fellow Christians do not accept Charasmatics... Because we don't agree with others that totally translate GOD'S word (Bible) incorrectly!

[@stevenhuckaby2902]

Its my opinion that Pastor MacArthur is probably the most sound teacher preacher pastor Mr. Brown could ever hope to meet , I also believe Dr. MacArthur would make Mr. Brown look pretty weak from a theological position, Notice Dr. MacArthur is not pursuing anyone to try and discredit them, he is only interested In salvation of the lost, I wish Mr. Brown were likeminded

[@rajaduraisharoan1790]

In countries like mine (india), you can't evangelise without the power of holy spirit... If cessation theory is true, india would have 0 Christians today!!!

[@rajaduraisharoan1790]

Spot on!!! Today many ministers try to use the gifts as advertisement to themselves when god gives them gifts and fails miserablely in fruits of spirt... That is why so many frown upon gifts of spirit... Gifts are just tool that work in sidelines to prove the gospel and not the main picture itself... As to the question why we don't see mighty prophets like Elijah is because god is still looking for a person who can commit to him the way Elijah did... But sadly we all fall short on that journey... We should pray to god to raise Elijahs, billy Grahams, Reinhard bonnkes and smith wigglesworths today!!!

[@rajaduraisharoan1790]

Its problem with people... When we ask questions, are we also looking at Reinhard bonnke, sadhu sunder singh, smith wigglesworth, dgs dhinakaran etc... These people also exist... When a ministry grow, it also grows economically and those ministers have to handle the aspects of money and finances also .. it comes down to are they being truthful before god and it is for god to judge them if they failed because they are his servents... Lastly Bible unequivocally states " Never trust a breathing person"... It applies to all... All ministers are to show the life of Jesus in everything instead of themselves

[@BornToPun7541]

I don't agree with Dr. Brown on everything, but I can say that he's a lot better than people such as: Brian Houston, Vlad Savchuk, Carl Lentz, Lance Walnau, Bill Johnson, William Branham, Charles Parham, C Peter Wagner, Hank Kunneman, Todd White, Todd Bentley, Rob Bell, Isaiah Saldavar, Robert Morris, Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Sid Roth, Jesse Duplantis, Rod Parsley, John Hagee, Steven Furtick, Dutch Sheets, T. D. Jakes, Benny Hinn, etc.

[@StEpHeNno22]

Very telling how twice Michael reached out to try to debate John MacArthur, and with no luck. You would think with him being so strong against the charismatic movement he would’ve gladly exposed whatever he thought was false about Michael’s doctrines about gifts, including answering any rebuttals Michael had to his book, Strange Fire.

[@Thicknchunky]

Sola scriptura gives you the following beliefs: - Cessationism vs. continuationism - Baptismal regeneration vs. reformed baptismal theology - Infant baptism vs. credo baptism vs. baptism isn’t necessary - Real presence in the Eucharist to a symbolic (it’s just grape juice and crackers) view of the Eucharist - Free will vs. predestination - Assurance of salvation to being able to throw away or refuse the salvation being offered to you. - Bishops/priests vs. Pastors/elders - Veneration of the Theotokos vs. non-veneration - New perspective vs. old perspective on Paul. I could keep going. What’s even more confusing is when someone says that they have their preferred pastors or preachers because of the truth that they preach. It comes off like the story of Goldilocks, trying different things out until it’s just right. Some pick John MacArthur because of whatever reason, others pick Joel Osteen because of whatever reason. Aren’t they all reading the same Bible? I hear all the time to let the Bible interpret itself yet here we are: Doctrinal plurality everywhere. I don’t think that what Jesus meant when he prayed that we would be one Church.

[@partlysimpson5154]

thats not even what truth is, it is a religion

[@Watchmanonthewall77]

No, we are not all reading the same bible. That's one of the biggest problems.

[@MrPistol55]

Dr. Brown did debate Phil Johnson, MacArthur’s Timothy and shut Johnson down. It was embarrassing…:(

[@bigtobacco1098]

All tongues today are gibberish and prophets today are 99.9 percent wrong...

[@gingermack9376]

This is so disappointing. People are suffering and we have all of this division in the "world." And the response from the "church" is let's debate speaking in tongues. "Though I speak with the tongues of men and angels, and have not charity, I am become a sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. "

[@TKK0812]

That’s an extremely false dichotomy. When Paul was instructing the church in Corinth on the proper function of the gifts, no one said “Paul! What are you doing!? People are hurting in the world and there are unbelievers who need the Gospel and you’re talking about tongues and prophecy!?” Right actions follow right beliefs, so we can't neglect striving for truth.

[@Watchmanonthewall77]

You will never see JM debate because they have no scripture to back them up. However, the bible backs up the continued use of Spiritual Gifts. They know this!

[@nyshoefly]

Macarthur is all for constant prayer Dr. Brown.

[@Brotheral-pb1oj]

Only superficial believers are divided about something that Brown and McArthur beleives. There is one Truth. Those who believe in in the Son are not condemned. Those that do not believe in the Son are condemned already! Let them preach that , and stop putting labels on everything, and stop being concerned about the actions of fallen people, and put all the emphasis on the Salvation which is in Christ. Since Brown is a doctor, maybe he'll consider getting a job at the hospital. Since McArthur is a Calvinist, maybe he should be focusing on his lord, John Calvin. Leave the preaching of the gospel to those whom God called to do so, in meekness for His glory, and for the salvation of lost souls.

[@educational4434]

One thing that bugs me the most is anytime the topic of miraculous gifts is brought up, there always seems to be this fixation on "speaking in tongues". This seems to be a perfectly useless miracle these days given the fact that anytime someone claims that a bunch of people have broken out into speaking in tongues, what that usually means is that they have launched into speaking absolute gibberish that is not reflective of any language on the face of the planet. The entire point of "speaking in tongues" is that you are literally speaking another existing language that someone else can hear and understand. Miracles and gifts should have a practical purpose. Speaking in tongues is so that other people who speak that language can suddenly understand you. And even with as miraculous a gift as that could be, if it's only briefly available to you for a few minutes, or is just pure gibberish and not an actual existing language at all, then it doesn't seem to be a very useful or practical gift for the modern era, and I thus don't understand why there's such a fixation on it. I wish people would refer to the examples that are far more practical and interesting, like Jesus telling you that if you turn to a tree and tell it to uproot itself and plant itself in the sea, and if you believe without doubting, then it will obey you. Or when he said the same about a mountain, and telling the mountain to move from here to there, and if you believe without doubting, it will be done for you. Or when he withered the fig tree in half a second and his disciples asked him how he did it and he said that they were capable of doing this if they believed without doubting and that they would do even greater works than that. That's a pretty significant set of telekinetic abilities accessible by faith. I would definitely prefer that rather than speaking gibberish for a minute or two and flailing around like I see some of the charismatic churches do. The only way I could see speaking in tongues being a practical gift is if you traveled to a foreign nation, and no matter where you went you always were able to speak every language of the people you were encountering, as if you were Jason Bourne or something, knowing multiple languages. How great would that be? And yet I don't see a single example of that, ever. Either historically, or presently.

[@jeethangovender3777]

Brown must carefully listen to Mc Arthur.He is totally confused. Covet earnestly the best gift,words of St.Paul.

[@toneysmith4946]

This was dope we need this debate because what do scripture teach we been hearing so much who's false who's real if a john macarthur say something false we wouldn't even know because we trust him so much and his teaching

[@davidortega357]

These Cesssionalist preachers act like Saul of Tarsus when he went around arresting the early saints preaching Jesus name to all in Jerusalem they of the Jewish clergy demanded to stop preaching in Jesus name we need to pray for the modern Saul's to become Paul of the Apostolic faith and preach tongues and the other gifts of the holy ghost there 9 gifts

[@Disciple2024]

Jesus cast out a demon and they said it was the work of Satan and response was can Satan cast out Satan the house divided against itself will fall Benny says that blasphemy against the holy spirit is an unforgivable sin or a sin that won't be forgiven so according to scripture Jesus himself said that if you try to say the spiritual gifts are from Satan you're going to hell according to Jesus and you're actually giving the devil just exactly what he wants he wants to steal God's glory and you're giving him what he wants when you say that my personal opinion is that is why it's an unforgivable sin after all the fall of the Angels was because of that and as far as we know according to scripture there's no salvation for those fallen angels so it makes a lot of sense I don't pretend to know for facts though some things are a great mystery but I like how Michael Brown said let's not argue over the issue let's win souls for Christ

[@Matthew24.4]

2:00 Brown was an ELDERl in his 2nd church and studying 🤷‍♂️ That’s not the biblical definition of an elder!

[@piccfusionteam1035]

This is my problem with all people that support continued healing, speaking in tongues prophecy. That says I know what a person is going to do. It’s because I have not heard one scripture quoted to back what Michael Brown says. On the other hand, John MacArthur always has scripture to back up what he says. After being around charismatics a number of years, I never was given a reason that sounded feasible for my many questions. Again, John, MacArthur actually answers the question and proves his beliefs. Plus, Jesus said the road to heaven is narrow and few find it. I definitely wouldn’t be looking for Jesus and the places that there seems to be a massive growth.

[@johnrambo9104]

Still waiting for any so called "tongues" speaker to actually speak a foreign language without studying it. It hasn't happened, because the gift of tongues ceased. Stop the nonsense.

[@lindaw2418]

I don’t see MacArthur as harsh, direct in his beliefs maybe. I pray according to Gods will and God answers. Is this the gift of faith☺️❤️

[@ezidimmakenneth7927]

I speak in tongues, I believe God heals at His discretion. But I stand more with John MacArthur. The stupidest things I’ve seen in my life in Christianity is found within charismatic churches. I’m from Africa. Pls don’t get deceived, these Miracles happen here, yet not as rampantly and as as frequently as many charismatic preachers want to make you believe. The manipulations and ignorance of scripture and syncretism is sickening

[@chrisrobertson1929]

I've seen John MacArthur.cast out a demon..he did it with salvation..John has gifts and kinda denies it...

[@litesprof5135]

John speaks truth about the Bible. Tongue is a language. No one in the Bible speaks in mythical tongues. Jesus want to spread the word of the gospel all over the world he does not need you to speak in secret to hide from the devil. He said do not speak in vain repetitious words.

[@chrishere4272]

Humans aren’t capable of getting into heaven without Jesus Christ. Our greatest works are filthy rags. Whether or not you speak tongues will have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with your salvation. Accept that Jesus payed the price for our sins and we can’t make ourselves “little gods” with any of our own works. We are powerless without salvation through Jesus Christ.

[@Mortyrian]

Do I misunderstand Sola Scriptura? I understand it to mean that God can't reveal the truth of salvation to people outside of the written word.

[@jolookstothestars6358]

Did you know Dr.Broww is pro Bethel? That's not good. I used to respect Dr. Brown but if he doesn't come out clearly against the teachings of Bethel he has lost my ear and respect.

[@dr.dreymisenheimer8499]

I love Dr. Michael Brown. But when he said I don’t start with experience I start with scripture. I don’t see that with him. In debates about this topic or Calvinism he mostly refers to his experiences and at times puts single verses into there. I know he is one of the smartest guys in the charismatic world but I’d love to hear him in these debates stick to sola scriptura. It seems the cessationist’s do this much more. That’s why I came to the cessation views was because out of hundreds of debates I’ve watched on this topic the cessationist seems to stick to what the Bible says vs the charasmatic telling stories that they don’t ever show proof of. Btw, I am still very open to it. But very skeptical

[@kelb5904]

All the years of Benny Hinn ministry miracles and not one has ever been recorded

[@zach25e]

MacArthur and White are not Dr’s, unlike Michael Brown who is a PhD in this field.

[@PrinceDarius777]

You link up with literally all the people I watch. Love the unity Ruslan!

[@kciwner]

You people debate this out. But I’ll just believe the bible. But why don’t we just say salvation is not for today and it ceased with the last apostle. Then this would make sense. And we can just throw the entire New Testament out. And we’ll go back to the law of Moses. Very expensive though. Have you seen the price of beef lately?

[@juliemayes2027]

You really can’t prove Biblically that the spiritual gifts have ceased however a lot of so called gifts are not the true gifts I am charismatic but some are charismaniacs and difference needs to be called out John MacArthur does have some good points but he paints too broad a brush in my opinion

[@jeremycremeans1854]

Continuist full throated saying the scripture isnt sufficient and rejection of sola scriptura

[@jeremycremeans1854]

Aruguments by appeal to majority is a sure sign of an unbiblical teaching.

[@carllakay4994]

Almost like being saved is not a miracle/a work of God, God is working today and will always.

[@johornbuckle5272]

Dont need a debate, there is no debate. The way ya'll act is damaging the church.

[@stephanieblenkhorn5218]

I really get what John says about about worship. I can be distracted by melody. I think it’s our own thought processes while we worship. Also his conviction is ‘Christ Alone’ Good chat 🤍🤍

[@matthewmoore7097]

When he say spiritual gifts what does he mean, cause what most christians see some spiritual gifts they question it

[@heathercadenhead]

5:48 Is your argument that charismatic teaching is accurate because most people believe it?

[@mattk6719]

If you want to see miracles, get out of your comfort zone and go to the front lines of the mission field.

[@withoutexcuse]

It would be helpful to hear the scripture that supports his view rather than just his view.

[@2Chronicles714_]

Love Dr. Brown but he missed it on the Trump prophesies. They were correct.

[@antoniomartin7815]

As a reformed Baptist believer I believe those powers still exist, however reformed history is grounded in plasmaphobia or the fear of the spirit world. The doctrine of cessation is grounded on that. Study the history of reformation and witch hunts and you will be astonished.

[@africanindiaspo2895]

In our church we are walking in the power of the Holy Spirit and seeing people being healed and delivered of demonic oppression. The gifts of the Spirit are what distinguish us between the dead gods of Buddha, Islam and everything else. They are also the bread of the children. 1 corinthians 12 vs 4-11 4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work. 7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

[@grafxgrl8030]

Which of the Trump prophecies did not come true except his second term, yet?