The Deep End of Meditation - Rebooting the Brain | Delson Armstrong

An interview with the meditation master and teacher of the TWIM method, Delson Armstrong.
Consider supporting Delson at / delson
Find Delson at: delsonarmstrong.info/
www.dhammasukha.org/
www.suttavada.foundation/
NAVIGATION
00:00 - Delson’s Meditation ‘Career’
8:45 - What is the GOAL of Yoga?
12:54 - The highest level of Yoga meditation
20:27 - How Joseph got into meditation and TWIM
24:27 - What is ‘awakening’?
31:30 - What do they mean by ‘life is suffering’?
36:50 - What exactly are meditative ‘trance’ states? (The 8 Jhānas)
46:48 - Rebooting the Brain to understand the Mind’s Illusions
52:20 - The Four Stages of Awakening
55:40 - What are these stages of Awakening like?
1:00:35 - Prodding Delson on what exactly ‘Awakening’ is like
*This was recorded September 2022

[@WhatIveLearned]

You can find Delson's book A Mind without Craving on Amazon - amzn.to/3PdQdWP . Learn more about him at delsonarmstrong.info/ If you found this hard to follow, these two Substack posts of mine should help: josepheverettwil.substack.com/p/why-the-mind-makes-you-suffer josepheverettwil.substack.com/p/is-enlightenment-real-part-1

[@hookahmookah4971]

Meditation is demonic. Deceitful. Will lead people to hell. Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life.

[@SaintTrinianz]

I was a licensed medical massage therapist until I retired a few years ago. Part of what I loved about my work is that, in using both left and rights hands simultaneously, both hemispheres of my brain were activated, even synchronized, for an extended period of time, leaving me in a very focused and peaceful mental state. I knew that my clients were in a deep state of relaxation when they would report things like; "I feel like I am floating" or "I can no longer feel my body" or would enter a dream-like state, muttering about, "soup on a train..." But I knew that I too had entered an alternative state of consciousness when the top of my head seemingly disappeared. Thank you for confirming and affirming this experience

[@goodlifesince90]

That's amazing❤❤

[@gxlorp]

That's crazy!!! :D Ok you *must* look up the _stages_ of the _progress of insight._ And if you get the meditation bug, or awakening itch. You ought to aim for stream entry. As Kevin mentioned in the video. The page "reddit" slash "stream entry". It sounds like you crossed the stage #4, "the arising and passing away", as he mentioned he had noticed during the video. The arising and passing is like a glimpse into what awakening may be like for you.

[@GiveMeCoffee]

I'm having a hard time following most of the interview due to the audio, would it be possible to have captions? Thank you.

[@Enward834]

Me too

[@warmaxxx]

Me 3

[@the_master_of_cramp]

even better: he could reupload and use AI or something to enhance audio

[@GiveMeCoffee]

@@the_master_of_cramp being able to read captions is helpful for some, I'm not complaining about the quality, most of the time I have a hard time following dialogue and it is easier if I can read along

[@lindalor9284]

Hit the CC button at the bottom of the video. It might not be perfect, but it's better than nothing.

[@sirelegant2002]

Thank you Joseph for bringing more attention to and exporing this topic. It's awesome that you not only interviewed Delson in person but attended a retreat before interviewing

[@johanwestly]

TWIM is absolutely lifechanging! Probably the most effective meditation technique in the world

[@user-fg3fv9hl3b]

​@@generalkai2417easy to claim it's the most effective technique too when you have golden boy Delson claiming arhatship of the type that literally experiences not even a TRACE of negativity or suffering, even in the most extreme of circumstances.

[@hughmann1927]

I can confirm. If you start learning meditation without focus tools. This was easy to achieve personally. Your thoughts just stop. There is a blank black screen when you close your eyes, nothing else but instincts. It took 3 months-ish to learn this.

[@silversoul11]

Hey Joseph, I absolutely love your videos, but the sound quality of this video is terrible...

[@haroldcjennettiii]

I came into the comment section to say the same thing. I love your videos but this interview is very hard to hear.

[@titanismmedia]

i wonder if the audio comes from the weirdly positioned microphone in the background or from the camera... Not from the clip-on mics for sure

[@IanLineberry]

Mr Everett is new to interviews. He is learning, I have full faith in him lol. Big fan of the channel and newsletter, glad to see he's trying new stuff out.

[@michaelwardwell5965]

I've seen a few videos with delson and sounds were crazy and he addressed how most people get irritated and that's where self is stuck lol it is funny after irritating

[@ConsciousMoney]

Delson is a rockstar! A great interview - thank you. Twim is the best- go do a 10 day online retreat to see if you like it…

[@wisemonkeys4511]

Doing at the moment (just allowing myself TWIM content at the moment). I have meditated for almost 10 years and through this method I had to unlearn so much of my old habits that had nothing to do with the path that Buddha sets for reaching Nibbana. 3rd day only and I already reached the third Jhana and feeling like even my most subtle reactions of frustrations and insecurities have almost dissapeared. I wish the whole world to experience this sence of tranquility and equanimity.

[@WTC7]

I haven't studied it beyond the surface level, but I have done body scanning and other types of meditation and it really does work.

[@lordnelsonmc.billionberg9166]

Your name is important.

[@pranevprem]

Check out the work by Dr. Willoughby Britton on the negative effects of meditation.

[@HairySeagull]

Meditation saved my life, honestly.

[@lawrencered7850]

:)

[@OsirisMusic]

How specifically did it help you?

[@HairySeagull]

@@OsirisMusic It's the only thing that has helped me manage my borderline suicidal overthinking. It helped me manifest a healthy relationship with my own thoughts.

[@Chris03528]

Just opened my first Muse headband today. And then you drop this.

[@duke713]

twim is a great method and after unlearning some basic zeitgeist-ish craving/striving habitual tendencies (some weeks) works the best for me. and always great to hear delson

[@zekielswheel]

you continue to cover topics which are pertinent to my own journey of self mastery and secession. I am wondering if there is a way to get more accurate subtitles, as some of the dialogue was masked by audio loss and there are certain words I want to research, but I can't hear them properly nor can the Closed Captions. Thank you very much for introducing these concepts to your audience.

[@Sumbee]

Duuuude this is awesome I can’t wait to watch the whole thing :)

[@wisemonkeys4511]

Thanks Joseph, you keep on changing my life. Thanks to your interviews I got into reading Daniel Ingram's mega encyclopedia and now Im doing a Twim online retreat. It blows my mind why they are not the one mainstream buddhism. This thing is magical

[@md82892]

For those couldn’t listen the conversation due to poor audio here is Key Bullet Points: - Delson is a highly advanced meditator who has mastered the difficult meditation technique of nirodha-samapatti, which involves temporarily shutting off consciousness. - Delson shares his experiences of different meditative states or "jhanas", ranging from joy and happiness to expansive awareness and the cessation of all mental activity. - The realization of no permanent self is key to ending suffering/dissatisfaction, as it allows one to detach from the constant craving and aversion that arises from identifying with a self. - Delson has progressed through the different stages of awakening described in Buddhist traditions, culminating in the final stage of arahantship, where all defilements are eliminated and one acts with pure intuition. - An arahant no longer has the motivations and ego-driven pursuits of a normal person, but will still take care of their basic needs. They may teach or provide guidance, but do so without personal investment. - The experience of an arahant is described as a state of contentment, compassion, and ethical purity, where painful experiences are encountered without mental suffering.

[@cerberez]

This was gold! Tysm!

[@hetzijzoal]

Get the idea this is more an interview with an ego believing it has achieved something while in it's own way to begin the actual unfolding

[@chngwuihuan6664]

Hi, I really enjoyed the conversation. It has so much insight and value. Thank you!

[@georgecataloni4720]

I also liked playing Tekken, but not online, or even local co-op, but a lot of people do like it, while being bored of games that aren't competitive. I think it's because competitive people use their unconscious mind for predicting likely outcomes, while others, like myself, rely more on the conscious mind to thoroughly explore all outcomes. Carl Jung used to term "Introverted Intuition" (paired with Extroverted Sensing) to refer to the former, and "Introverted Sensing" (paired with Extroverted Intuition) for the latter.

[@simoncleret]

Intuition definitely plays a huge role. You'll often hear people talk about "game sense", especially in first person shooters like counter strike. You just intuitively know where they are most likely to be and pre-aim those spots.

[@caseypham7975]

@georgecataloni4270 where does extraverted sensing fit in? is it conscious or unconscious in the axis?

[@sanjayyethipathi]

thank you for posting this

[@Enward834]

This is a really interesting topic. But i can barely hear what is being said.

[@othek]

Yet another podcast… which whom i like so im looking forward.

[@Jsanon00]

80 minute banger lets goooo

[@mateusmontini797]

Sundays, am I right?

[@Smoshfaaaaaaaaaaan]

Oh man First Daniel and now this! Love you man, rational dharma all the way!

[@lilytea3]

0:15: 🧘 Delson Armstrong, an advanced meditator, discusses his experiences with deep meditation and the cessation of suffering. 9:26: 🧘‍♂ The goal of yoga is to achieve a state of aloneness or liberation of the mind, which brings a shift in consciousness and perception of reality. 17:59: 🧘 The speaker describes their experience of yoga cessation and the shift in perception that occurred. 27:25: 🧠 The realization that there is no permanent self leads to the cessation of suffering and the discovery of a new source of happiness. 37:05: 🧘 The speaker describes the eight genres of meditation and the experiences associated with each. 44:20: 🧘 The mind reaches a state of objectless awareness during meditation, leading to cessation and subsequent realizations about the self and reality. 52:41: 🧘 The speaker describes the stages of Awakening and their experiences, from stream entry to full Awakening. 1:01:15: 🧘 The speaker describes different levels of Awakening and their effects on awareness and craving. 1:09:23: 🧠 An awakened person no longer has the motivations behind having a career or possessions, but still attends to the basic needs of the body. 1:18:01: 🚿 Delson discusses his experience with cold showers and how he doesn't experience mental suffering during painful experiences. Recap by Tammy AI

[@helpfulinfo2630]

Is Delson married? He is wearing a ring

[@xdfckt2564]

8:30 conveniently skips yama and niyama.. Discipline and Rules. These aren't steps. These are the limbs. 🤦‍♂️

[@nbenda]

Great interview, very much from presence to presence! Delson is great. Funny that his examples are often related to food ;-)

[@user-sb9ml1ef4q]

Very enlightening ;)

[@la912]

That was great

[@mstez]

What a fascinating talk, thank you for sharing, Joe. Another channel I’ve become deeply interested in is Dr. Angello’s Simply Always Awake where he creates so many wonderful videos on Awakening, the process and all the other factors that go along with it. You may like it to if you’re on the path.

[@hansenmarc]

Great interview! One question: is there a difference between a cessation and fruition?

[@Baiano29]

Can you enable subtitles? The sound is a bit off and English is not my first language 😅

[@RealMTBAddict]

They are enabled

[@PankajKumar-zr3tv]

Meditation is amazing!

[@catmansion]

It was really interesting how Delson mentioned his peripheral vision. I also have nearly 180° vision but never thought to connect being aware of it with stillness of mind. Curious.

[@OfficialGOD]

great questions!! ask him about the siddhis, next time. 👍

[@lv1543]

The chad what ive learned

[@mrniceguy4277]

Do you have a podcast version of this? Because I honestly would rather listen to this (e.g. in the gym) if it's just a movie-lengths interview

[@MoMo.rocket]

I believe that I achieved a semi state of awakening as a child (12) which has caused me lifelong depression. I realised the impermenance of everything and how detached my thoughts and feels were from 'me' and made it my life long mission rebeling against the idea of impermanence which has caused me lasting grief and suffering that i constantly quell with meditation. I wish i never was awoken to the reality of self and continued to live my childhood and life in ignorance. For ignorance truly is bliss.

[@MoMo.rocket]

I lack the motivations to work towards anything and if i didnt have a supportive family i wouldve been probably not around atm.

[@gusmwas]

Happened to me too but what followed was the best 8 years of my life got deeper with an endless state of flow, creativity sports and following my passions worked for me.

[@stefancantemir4810]

Should make one with GM Wolf. So much similar insight.

[@frankjuuh]

Wow, amazing video. Love you.

[@billusher2265]

Interview Shinzen Young and Gary Weber

[@timesnewbabylonian8088]

There are dangers to meditation. This is a reality no-one talks about.

[@tomrulz444]

Very true, I tried meditation while driving and hit a tree.

[@shaunbloggsbot9528]

Are you referring to the psychosis induced in people that had an abrupt Kundalini awakening due to inadequate elimination of internal noise? That is the only danger I can recall.

[@swarup.mondal]

@@dbavatar What happened to Sam Harris?

[@manne8575]

Uhm, not really. Care to tell us about those dangers?

[@RAGINGXBULL2]

@@swarup.mondal his daily meditation caused the metastasis of TDS.

[@voicelessnarrator456]

Can a make a video about height and how to maximize it? Especially in late teens?

[@Lucroq]

I'm having a lot of problems with auditory processing in this one, especially the words I've never heard before. I think subtitles would really help this video a lot. I found r/streamentry which you mentioned at 20:59, but only by slowing down the video and guessing a lot

[@archockencanto1645]

You should really have used one of these noise reduction softwares. Adobe Audition has it. Moreover, there's AI and just manual techniques to make the voice crispier as well. An extra 30 mins of work here (25 just figuring out how to do it), would've added a lot to the video. As a plus though, I have to pay more attention to understand what the guy is saying 😅

[@WhatIveLearned]

This is the result of the noise reduction, actually. The original was much worse

[@onlyclark509]

Hey what I’ve learned can you do some more videos on insulin resistance

[@SouravBasuRoy]

i want videos on this topic as well

[@BetterYouNow]

Wow what have you done of recent? You look so much more lean, healthy and different from other videos. More sun, different diet? What's going on behind the scenes for such positive changes?

[@omar-cz6ec]

I think he just got a tan lol

[@MewenPng]

I think it's just a different angle

[@MewenPng]

Oh I figured it out. It says in the description that the video was recorded in 2022

[@rahuljondhale2200]

Namo Buddhaya🌹🌹🌹 🙏🙏🙏Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu 🌹🌹🌹🙏🙏🙏

[@Neelakhe]

As you had discussed methods of kundalini, 6rs and 9 jhanas, which are steps to alignment towards path. It's quiet doubt about lord Buddha who taught about jhanas by Alarakalama and niganta nadaputta. However, what's method directing apart from those teacher to realign to nibbana.

[@ZupTepi]

That hairdryer / hoover / blender is driving me nuts!

[@thephoenixsystem6765]

Ooh, you've gone symmetrical! :D

[@juanwononeyuan]

i achieved the state which u speak of in the very beginning of the video. i was on ketamine meditating in a flotation tank.

[@WhatIveLearned]

Looks like Dr. Laukkonen's paper checks out

[@KristiansDraguns]

9:40 state known as what name? I'm interested to read on.

[@josemorales3434]

Audio seems echoey and also i’m pretty sure i’m hearing a vacuum lol

[@lmao01]

waiting for reupload with enhanced audio, hard to understand.

[@BM-zv4xz]

@"What I've Learned" Super interesting. Unfortunately, the sound is not of the best quality (lots of low mid reverb), plus Delson drops many names and terms which are unfamiliar to me (and probably to most of the viewers). Auto-generated subtitles are of not much help. If would be great if you could transcribe the interview and add the correct version of the subtitles. Thanks.

[@ExcellentHealth]

My friend, you’d start dancing if you stumbled upon Peter Ralston.

[@johnrice1943]

333rd like! Question: what is it when you go inside, and you(not your body, which is like a sack of potatoes at this point) feel like both being a tiny speck within, and also incredibly large, at the same time?

[@WhatIveLearned]

Sounds like 5th Jhana

[@sanjayyethipathi]

i experienced exactly this

[@prashanthb6521]

A better audio would be nice to capture such important information.

[@nagendranaidu3826]

Timestamp missing

[@Incubator859]

This is an hour long and I don’t have the time to watch it all. So is it positive or negative and should it be avoided as much as possible?

[@OP-ig1fj]

neither and yes and no

[@nikolaibobrov7592]

Meditation is most definitely a positive, however in advanced stages there can be intense suffering as you confront aspects of reality and your personality that are difficult to come to terms with.

[@WhatIveLearned]

@@nikolaibobrov7592 Good way to put the Dark Night

[@wisemonkeys4511]

I can recommend a Twim retreat to anyone complaining about the sound quality. 6R it :)

[@omgwtf3821]

Any TL;DRs?

[@WhatIveLearned]

Meditate a lot and stuff happens

[@ericjorgearnezinochea9679]

the slowly camera to you smiling had a weird comedic timing. heh.

[@gunjanyadav2691]

Could you please provide timestamps?

[@WhatIveLearned]

Just added :)

[@Sovereign272]

Similar effects can be achieved through psychedelic drugs and magic mushrooms even at lighter doses if one knows what they are doing

[@anastasioschatzitheodorou3865]

Please dont go around promoting drugs . Its all artificial thoughts and feelings produced by drugs thus it is fake .

[@YaoYaoster]

is there a reference link for the books mentioned?

[@gudassachin5362]

Reference Book is - A Mind without craving by Delson Armstrong, Life is Meditation and Meditation is Life by Bhante Vimalaramsi available in pdf online

[@feliksskydan4863]

Why can’t we use subtitles under your video?

[@lindalor9284]

turn on the CC at the bottom of the video.

[@feliksskydan4863]

@@lindalor9284They were unavailable. Thank you.

[@djangobojangles5979]

Thank you, Jesus.

[@k0v4c]

20:19 "there was no awareness at all" 20:24 "I knew somehow" Huh

[@firstsecond9569]

Great "podcast", but the audio quality is quite poor

[@schmolck]

Meditation is mostly intense suffering. Who wants to buy my book?

[@taylanulukr9081]

His books are free to download.

[@alexpheno]

Anazing discussion but please work on better audio for next time, it's difficult and distrating to follow with all this echo.

[@TiimmyTso]

Hi

[@xdfckt2564]

Indian metaphysics give very little importance to any of the mystical or meditative states. To be prideful or use those states for anything other than realisation of the Brahman is deemed detrimental.

[@theonlyconstantischange123]

I kinda briefly remember running into this mentality when reading up on it. The siddhis(sp?) were always talked about as distractions. "Enlightenment" was the purpose above all. This interview did a great job breaking down that perspective into Western terms

[@xdfckt2564]

@@theonlyconstantischange123 the observer also is a thought. that one notices the blankness denotes that the thoughts are still there.

[@LikeTheVik]

oof the audio quality is horrible. please make captions!

[@freakazoid9889]

Being unable to visualize things, makes meditation hard for me.

[@simoncleret]

You can learn to visualize. Odds are, the difference between those who do and those who don't is just being predisposed to learning that skill as a child.

[@raraavis7782]

Do you have Aphantasia?

[@freakazoid9889]

@@simoncleret maybe, there isn't a lot of literature on it. I have been trying for a year or so since discovering it was a thing lol. No luck yet, maybe glimpses? It's a hard thing to navigate when others explain something that you struggle to understand as my perspective has always been completely void of it.

[@freakazoid9889]

@@raraavis7782 believe so, yes

[@simoncleret]

@@freakazoid9889 At first you will probably only be able to do simple shapes and/or colours, but it becomes insanely useful as what you can visualize becomes more complex. Like you can create mental maps of places, gauge the relative sizes of things ("will this food item fit in this pot?") and all sorts of things like that.

[@unreactive]

Have you tried clearing the echo with some AI tool?

[@WhatIveLearned]

This is post noise reduction. The original was much harder to hear

[@adityabirsingh2601]

no captions?

[@lindalor9284]

Hit the CC button.

[@WilliamRP263]

I am sorry to say that audio quality is very poor and CC are not accurate. Difficult to understand for someone with english as second language.

[@DerSaa]

So if you don't crave... why are you fat...?

[@meqdadmahmoud6641]

Will, I use to respect this channel…

[@chriskroutil1518]

There is not a single Busdhist text denying the individual Soul. Anata is not defined as "no Soul." It rather refers to "that which is not Soul."

[@user-jh9sn2bv2l]

Too much sound resonating plz provide subtitles.

[@honestcommenter8424]

Any chance you have a better quality voice? I couldn't really listen to this but I want to

[@sassyterminator3858]

How can you be overweight and be inlighted and why is he calling this meditation. His practice is only dulling the mind by meens of focus. Thats not mediation.

[@aanchaallllllll]

0:00: 🧘 Deep meditation can lead to a cessation of suffering and a realization of the absence of a permanent self. 16:49: ⚡ The speaker had a profound experience during a yoga practice where everything stopped, leading to a state of bliss and heightened perception. 33:00: 🧠 The speaker discusses his frustration with a game and the concept of self in relation to awakening. 49:03: 🧠 The observer arises dependent upon the object of observation, and the sense of self is superimposed by the mind on the experience. 1:04:50: 🧘 The subject of origami experiences a complete lack of ill will or craving, allowing them to let go of negative thoughts and enjoy experiences without attachment. Recap by Tammy AI

[@blackisblack22]

It's called self-hypnosis.

[@brianmatthew2290]

Lol 2 minutes in and I already realized the trick

[@Enward834]

What do you mean?

[@brianmatthew2290]

@@Enward834 I had coffee this morning

[@Enward834]

@@brianmatthew2290 not really clearing anything up for me my man

[@DanielMarrable]

The sound is horrible mate. Going to skip this

[@Jul-sp9zb]

At around 1:09:00 you talk about awakend people having a lack of will to follow a chareer. But the guy himself is awakend?! but obviously has a Chareer as an Meditation expert and writes books... isn't that kind of a contradiction?

[@HakuCell]

In some people meditation can induce anxiety and neurosis, but it is always sold as a solution to all suffering.

[@dropthekorpi]

It shows you how anxious you really are, and if you can't handle that, it can exacerbate the pre-existing anxiety. Paying attention to your senses in the moment doesn't just cause anxiety out of nowhere.

[@soldatnerd]

Think of it like exercise, if you exercise you become stronger such that what was one hard becomes easy. Likewise, with meditation it is a given that it will bring up unpleasant feelings and it is for that exact reason you should do it. Learning how to stay equanimous even when there's unpleasant feelings is like training for the mind, by not dealing with it and by feeding the cravings it's like constantly scratching an itch that reopens a wound for that temporary relief yet prolonging the healing process. When an addict comes off their substance they experience much the same, it sucks at first but you're better off for it, similarly, you are "addicted" to form, to thoughts, to the story you tell yourself, to sensuality, of course letting go of it would suck.

[@branchman8047]

@@soldatnerd wow! well said! 👏

[@HakuCell]

@@soldatnerd who misled you to believe that you should do nothing about problems or unpleasant feelings?

[@stlouisix3]

Pray all 15 decades of the holy rosary daily.

[@mateusmontini797]

Aren't you expected to pray one sort of misyeris per day?

[@nikolaibobrov7592]

@@mateusmontini797 yes, but if you're super devout you could do all 15 decades. it really is a form of meditation so could have powerful positive effects

[@ogeoge6000]

Sounds a bit like carnivore zen. : )

[@kubasniak]

LMAO this is wacky content xd

[@enkidu001]

never trust a guy with a big belly preaching about the depth of the human spirit. ( i learned this from an old master)

[@RazzoAratey]

I know right!! Like what’s up with all the “spiritual” leaders being just spiritually obsessed I hate to be “worldly” and caught in the physical lol But it just kinda makes me believe spiritual things are just a way to mentally get off and a weird type of suppression ….

[@ThePresident1999]

​@maillardsbearcat The body and the mind is intrinsically linked. You cannot separate the two. So gluttony in the body usually correlates with gluttony in the mind. Not to mention, your physical health affects your mental health GREATLY.

[@ThePresident1999]

​@@maillardsbearcatYour spiritual journey should also affect the physical world. Nobody cares about someone mind if they aren't actually affecting the world positively. Not being neutral, but being a positive agent towards others. Words are weak to actions.

[@thephoenixsystem6765]

You seen what a big chungus the Buddha was? Shaddap lol

[@thephoenixsystem6765]

@@maillardsbearcat wow

[@SouravBasuRoy]

you came to India and didn't tell us 😑