The Demise Of As I Lay Dying Needs To be Studied

[@K1NGD0M]

As I Lay Resigning

[@CrustaceousB]

💀

[@APizzle7]

🤣🤣🤣

[@nickhall8319]

they're gonna start a new group called As I Left Dying

[@perlundgren7797]

As I Say Bye Tim

[@ethanw.eastep9673]

As I Start Crying Laughing.

[@havocdevelopment6142]

I have also decided to leave As I Lay Dying. I will not be answering any questions at this time. Thank you for understanding.

[@neilpatrickhairless]

Same tbh

[@slashismyhommie8182]

I hear Trevor Bauer is gonna join the band. He said he's looking forward to hit those drums as hard as he does women when he has sex

[@constructapex2021]

Right there with ya

[@The0nlyy]

People praise rappers when they actually “live” what their music is about. But people in metal get soft when we do the same. Wtf man

[@JyStar]

@@The0nlyy What song has As I Lay Dying singing about murder for hire again?

[@mikeT268]

Josh Gilbert leaving to join Spiritbox looking like a pretty smart decision!

[@zguion]

Biggest w move of the decade

[@beaubock77]

He's super underutilized in that band... But yeah I get it.

[@stonecoldsteverharvey7862]

Spiritbox sucks

[@PalmelaHanderson]

​@@beaubock77he's doing a lot of behind the scenes production stuff that you don't necessarily hear.

[@surreal_realities]

@@stonecoldsteverharvey7862 wow you dislike a popular band, you want a cookie or something?

[@hellsinvader]

I am the new drummer of As I Lay Dying

[@hellsinvader]

After much reflection, I have decided to leave As I Lay Dying.

[@TankTheTech]

Had me in the first half… 😂

[@asabovesobelow2299]

​hellsinvader😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@MilkyDischarge]

It’s been a good run, but it’s time

[@brandonabiggs]

☠️☠️☠️

[@shortlivedglory3314]

Breaking!!!! Man who tried to have his wife murdered is shockingly difficult to live on a bus with! More news at six!

[@deeperatmosphere]

@@shortlivedglory3314 on Point. 😂👌🏻

[@jessm2560]

👏👏

[@InfantGoose6565]

I still can't believe TWO different human beings married a guy that tried to kill his ex.

[@Evy-1988]

wait until you read about Noir Desir

[@AsmoG13]

Go work out, then you'll understand.

[@sakidickerson]

Wait what? He got married again???

[@themobseat]

Same kind of women who send serial killers love letters.

[@TimmyTurner421]

@@themobseat people would be surprised how many women do that

[@insparks782]

I'm fucking glad you brought up Ian Watkins from Lostprophets when you were talking about people saying "Separate the art from the artist". He was literally what I was thinking of when you were talking about that. Some of his music had a profound influence on many people when they were growing up, but most if not all of those people I have seen, have said that Lostprophets are unlistenable now because of it.

[@ZacxOff]

I went back and tried to listen to Start Something, cuz I LOVED that album.... But now EVERY lyric just feels like a creepy fucking allusion to him being a monster. Its disturbing.

[@JohnOwens-cn4fx]

I've had moral conflictions when revisiting Lostprophets albums but I keep going back to them because the band crafted really good music. It's a shame Ian really fkd the bands legacy and I started thinking more about the rest of the crew and in my mind take Ian Wantskids out of the equation.

[@greenmatrix30seven]

Loved that

[@greenmatrix30seven]

Oohh here we go

[@somedude3443]

Is he the guy who, um, "violated" a literal infant? I never listened to Lostprophets, so I don't know if I'm getting him confused with someone else

[@RogueCow]

“Hired guns” lol, poor choice of words? 26:10

[@THExDRxHate]

😂

[@themobseat]

🤣🤣

[@OddoRocket]

Ironic yes, but i think what he means is that those members were there just to play in the band they did have stake in the legal or business side of the band

[@Reece_Hart]

Who would have thought a guy that tried to have his wife murdered could have issues that could cause other problems with people? I am shocked, shocked I say.

[@russellmckenzie1596]

It has not been released by any of the members to what exactly pushed them to leave, to stereotype it to just Tim is ignorance, no one knows the facts

[@TankTheTech]

@@russellmckenzie1596 If every member of a band bails and leaves one person left? It's kind of obvious. Not to mention that it's been a rotating door for several years. Nobody is stereotyping, they're just coming to an obvious conclusion based off of what's happening.

[@deeperatmosphere]

@@TankTheTech Well said.! Sometimes you just have to count 1 and 1 together. 😅

[@derpderpin1568]

@@TankTheTech They died in 2005 anyways. Nothing they've done since Shadows Are Security has been even slightly worth paying attention to.

[@samholdsworth420]

​@@russellmckenzie1596Russell do you have a brain?

[@FatZ1806]

I absolutely adored AILD back in High School, graduated 2006. Loved them all the way until Awakened and couldn't wait for new music. Then the story broke and I was upset for Nick, Jordan, Josh and Phil. Then when they announced the reunion I was very skeptical, thinking it was about money and the things you mentioned Tank. Then they were headlining a tour with Whitechapel, Shadow of Intent and Brand of Sacrifice and I drove like 2 hours to go to it. I bought the tickets about a week after they went on sale and right before the tour the news broke about Josh and Jordan leaving/kicked from the band. I pretty much didn't want to go, but my wife reminded me how I seemed more excited to see Whitechapel for the first time than seeing AILD. So we went and I had an absolute blast during the first 3 bands. Then AILD took the stage and I just couldn't stand being at the venue anymore. I think we made it through one song and then Through Struggle was the second one and we just left. Seeing them on stage without Nick, Josh and Jordan sealed the deal that they weren't AILD anymore, they were Tim Lambesis Inc.

[@mundanemorselsmundanemorse7028]

Well stated. I will always listen to their music, and “Paralyzed” will always be one of my top workout/adrenaline songs. I saw them in concert before any of the craziness started and it was great. Now it’s just a sad story.

[@GorbombZombay]

Same saw em few years back but was more excited for emmure/after the burial saw some buddies from HS show up just as AILD came on maybe watched a few songs but idk wana enjoy em like I did when I was younger/crazy show days ocean between us era maybe just old or the situation but do hope the best for all members just always seems like an issue ongoing sad…

[@derpderpin1568]

Everything after Shadows Are Security was horrendous.

[@jakeclinch1990]

An ocean between us was a masterpiece, so yea nah bro.

[@masked1CE]

Hey 👋🏽, just as a reminder, the year you graduated was the year I was born 🙂. I’m an adult now.

[@burnittotheground108]

As I Lay Waiting for the inevitable revelation about what has REALLY gone on behind closed doors in the past few days. These newer members were able to overlook Tim's recent history - but whatever happened in the past few days, THAT was a bridge too far? Yikes.

[@chrisbruchak4519]

I've said it a few times and I'll say it again. I really don't think it was Tim's fault this time. The metal industry is becoming littered with soft-minded babies. They wanted the stature that comes with the as i lay dying name without having to do any work to earn it. They all knew that they were signing up to be in a band with a contentious person. A person who's been publicly admonished by many people. A person who would be a very easy scapegoat if they all just up and decided Tim was being too mean to them. Tim could be a master narcissist but that's not the vibe I'm getting from the situation. I've watched him do several interviews and the person people make him out to be versus the person he more accurately seems to be are two very different people.

[@burnittotheground108]

@@chrisbruchak4519 that does make sense….and i do need to say (I’d imagine you’d probably agree), I hate that I’m guilty of speculating openly on something fairly serious that’s not mine to speak on. And those involved should be able to do what’s best without having to also deal with people putting gossipy tabloid-esque energy out there. So, to anyone in/around that situation - mea culpa. That said, I hope the hypothetical you’ve described is much closer to the reality than what I said a few days ago & that I was way off. The scenario you laid out isn’t rooted in vaguely implying potentially ugly shit.

[@chrisbruchak4519]

@@burnittotheground108 yeah its just amazing that these people are all so quick to jump ship and blame Tim when they've beefed with each other or with past band members themselves. Its plainly obvious to me at this point that Tim was not the only big head in the band. They were ALL beefing with each other. Tim was just the scape goat for all of it.

[@wintertrooper7918]

​@@chrisbruchak4519every member of the band has quit leaving Tim as the only person left, and the one consistent thing in all their statements about leaving has been that there is something happening in the band that caused them to all leave and with Tim again being the sole remaining member and having not made a comment leads to some questions with all signs pointing to him

[@CrzyWzrd4L]

@@chrisbruchak4519Except that all of these guys are from arguably equally big bands, if not bigger. Ken and the drummer came from Unearth, Ryan came from Miss May I and Phil still has Saosin. Literally every single one of them comes from equally tenured bands with similar fanbases. It’s not like they’re hiring local nobodies.

[@corinna007]

I don't remember where I saw it, but I saw a post somewhere that said "Separate the art from the artist" only works in retrospect; you can still appreciate what it meant to you before because nothing can change that it (whatever "it" is) was important to you, but going forward and still supporting them doesn't always work, and sometimes it's necessary to leave it in the past. That said, I've never listened to As I Lay Dying (or Lostprophets), and I don't think I ever will.

[@plnkblue]

I feel like a lot of “separating art from artist” discourse comes from people who have the ability/desire to follow artists outside of the music. Like, there are tons of artists I listen to and have listened to in the past that I quite literally only know the music of, and not a bit of personal, external information. Don’t keep up with their social media, don’t have merch, don’t know when or where they’re touring or even if/when they’ve put out new music. There’s a big likelihood that a good portion of the amount of people who continue to support artists after controversy genuinely have no clue a controversy even exists. I also feel like this is a particularly interesting/niche example, given how there’s a strong possibility the band will just… implode and not reunite/be revitalized with new members. If the band isn’t actively creating new ventures to be supported from, I don’t know how much a 0.001 cent per stream or a spin of a CD purchased 15 years ago will really contribute to a sense of ongoing support.

[@Erichwanh]

As always, Tank, it's good to see you and I hope you're well 8^) "Separating The Art From The Artist" I have a hard time doing this. But I've learned that, if other people (ie reactors I enjoy) don't have a problem with said separation, I need to not judge them. But that's tough for me, too, you know? Not my place, though. So I just hide videos I don't want to watch, and move on. If it becomes more than just "separating the art", I unsub. Learning: it's an active process.

[@iVETAnsolini]

Zombie Autopilot has probably one of the best solos! As a high school kid I got so hooked. But soon after found Despised Icon, Job for a Cowboy, The Black Dahlia Murder, and The Red Chord. Man feels like forever ago

[@codybischoff1010]

My thing with Tim, I was open to giving him a second ish chance given the fact Jake from August Burns Red was in his corner and he seemed to be doing really productive work with not only himself but former prisoners trying to get them reformed back into society. But after the reunion imploded a couple years ago and all of this happened yeah, I can’t do it

[@blkwdw13]

This is where I was with them, once Nick, Jordan, and Josh left I was done with them. Now this just reaffirms it.

[@abrielrobertsson4160]

How do you know it's his fault? And what has this anything to do with Tim's past actions? I mean, he might have done something else completely unrelated to his past criminal actions.

[@codybischoff1010]

@@abrielrobertsson4160 it’s called process of elimination

[@codybischoff1010]

@@abrielrobertsson4160 process of elimination

[@RyanREAX]

@@codybischoff1010 “give a second chance”.. what does that even mean? Some soap opera fantasy crap..? Tim doesn’t care about YOU.. you never met Tim.. He isn’t your friend.. you just sit there listening to music..

[@GrumpyPallasCat8015]

5 minutes into this video and I'm already having whiplash from the insanity. He was convicted of trying to get his wife k1lled?!?! HE ONLY SERVED 2 YEARS?!?!?!?

[@GrumpyPallasCat8015]

Oh god, not Lostprophets flashbacks now.... (do not google that people, trust me, you dont want that kind of knowledge in your brain)

[@dannynagel5748]

@@GrumpyPallasCat8015 Not only did he only serve two years, but he was only sentenced for 6! The entire sentence was a joke from the start.

[@drunkbriankelley]

He didn't kill her dumbass! Bad yes, as bad as doing it no not hardly......go ask Tim about it I'm sure he'd oblige you

[@drunkbriankelley]

Go watch the Jamey jasta show episode from a few months ago he done with Tim......oh and Jamey turned on him and is a lil bitch hater too BUT like I said watch it.

[@SISMNTB]

It's honestly baffling how people/artists with money barely get slaps on the wrist when they commit the most heinous crimes. They claimed drug/alcohol abuse being the primary reason he did what he did which imo is the worst defense and it should've got him sent to prison for longer.

[@Lighthouse1810]

They're leaving to start a new band called As I Stand Living

[@wolfiemuse]

Please, lmao, this is actually not a bad idea

[@aleksandarradovanovic8496]

I'm shocked Phil is the one sticking for this long, since he was the harshest with his words towards Tim, in their reunion discussion back in 2018.

[@danielhughes3758]

He might perhaps be the one who's invested the most in the band in terms of emotion and work, so giving up on all the dreams he's had for the band must be hard. Might even be a case of "sunk cost fallacy" where you know it's a sinking ship but you still don't want to give up what you've invested. Just some wild guesses on my part as I don't know much about any of them

[@Wernershnitzl]

I could be misremembering, but wasn't he the first one to leave Wovenwar to start working with Tim once again before the rest of them joined back up?

[@aleksandarradovanovic8496]

​@@Wernershnitzlhe was the one who left WW, but I'm not sure if it's to work with Tim again.

[@bradleygee3773]

Yeah he’s gone now too lol

[@thegreatunknown8014]

Slipknot,Megadeth and AILD are like a bus station,people come and go...

[@shredenvain7]

Well Slipknot is a 9 piece which would automatically be harder to keep together. Plus their 1st 2 members to leave are no longer alive so they can't help that.

[@DragonKnightX12]

@@shredenvain7 Too be fair Joey was kicked out before he passed. It does feel like a lot of it is probably Corey and Clown.

[@themobseat]

Like McDonald's - Always hiring.

[@DragonKnightX12]

@@themobseat Sir this is a Wendy's

[@gx1tar1er]

​@@DragonKnightX12Slipknot died with Paul and Joey.

[@GreasyDaddy]

Came up in the scene with Alex Kendrick , our bands played together a bunch, and he filled in on vocals on a tour my old band went on. I’ve always known him to be a great dude, but tbh it’s been a long time since we’ve really been tight. It was weird seeing him with AILD, and part of me gets it. You gotta pay your bills. But I’m glad he’s parted ways.

[@Gimmiyomoney]

Alex is the man, good tour homie

[@davidlindenberger7646]

3:48 “Bonified Beef Castle” is my new stage name 😂😂😂

[@adorabell4253]

Separating the art from the artist only works once the artist is dead. Love craft is the usual example of this because we have distance from him and his life. You can’t do that while the artist is I’ve because supporting the art supports the artist. You cannot separate them while still giving them money.

[@whatreallymatters571]

Exactly

[@derpderpin1568]

it also doesn't work at all when they lyrics are personal anthems to rape and murder written by the vocalists. doesn't matter if they're dead or not.

[@leeburgers2444]

I’ll listen to whatever I want. I listen to R Kelly daily. Speak for yourselves virtue signalling ham and eggers. Also I am stepping down from my role with AILD and will refuse to answer any further questions on the matter. Please wish me well in my future endeavours

[@Interestingenough4]

@@derpderpin1568 The sad thing with AILD is that their music is, in terms of image and lyrics, actually quite clean cut. It doesn't seem to fit Scumbag Tim at all. It's like Slayer in reverse: Slayer's music is dark, blasphemous against Christianity and pro-Nazi and pro-murder/violence/crime, etc., yet the guys themselves seem to be basically harmless, inoffensive old family guys behind the scenes.

[@MooseMoosely]

As usual, piracy is the solution.

[@worldpower78432]

Shout out to when every member except the singer of Our Hollow Our Home all quit at once. And then all the replacement members ALSO quit.

[@toyotaecw]

The OG member of Our Hollow Our Home quit I thought because he had issues at home (sick parents) and basically he decided to end the band.

[@jevinday]

I agree with you a lot on this one. I can absolutely separate the art from the artist up to a certain degree, there are musicians I listen to that have done bad things. But there's a line for me. Tim and his victim are still alive, it's like a current event, so the emotions are strong. I personally don't care that he served his time, I wouldn't support anything he does regardless of how sorry he is. I'm not surprised to hear that he isn't a pleasant person. You pretty much said everything I was thinking!

[@Mb410.]

I got to speak to Tim back in July, and I brought up how incredible it was to revitalize a band where three members leave in the span of a year. Dude definitely seemed very thankful that it all came to be, said that it was all complete chance. I’m puzzled that this story happened because it makes it seem like he took this second chance for granted.

[@Mb410.]

Side note: that last record was fucking fire, if anybody’s been sleeping on this band for a while

[@starkiller34]

What Iv'e heard form the roadie/show scene: - Many people in Tim's entourage say drugs or not, he never considered divorce cuz religion. - the other AILD members where STRUGGLING with their project without Tim. The fans weren't interested without him. - They felt forced to re-unite with Tim, even though they did it willingly, to simply continue their careers. Any claims of 'for the fans' are met with laughter and smiles. Collection of things I'd heard from people who've worked on AILD touring/shows. All of it many years old and un-verified, although Iv"e heard all this from different people. What's weird is I've never heard talk of Tim specifically.. what he's like, how he acts.... Is the subject Taboo around these circles? Can't say for sure as I barely met the guy once (shook hands. Must've been during the roid era because them thangs were GIGANTIC)

[@derpderpin1568]

religions destructive influence on display once again

[@bschuss1]

Wait what religion discourages divorce but encourages plotting to kill your wife?

[@Valaran1]

In late 2011, a coworker let me borrow An Ocean Between Us. I had never previously listened to anything quite that heavy, and it absolutely changed my life, and the entire trajectory of my music tastes for the next 13 years. After Tim's conviction I find myself unable to listen to what was once my favorite music. I feel bad for all the outstanding musicians who tried to make this work, and I hope they end up in successful and healthy bands.

[@hugoaguilar96]

What a coward!

[@derpderpin1568]

@@hugoaguilar96 yea you are

[@sircliffordmalcolmjac5870]

OMFG!! I was taking in that guitarists post that was so well thought out and written, then the someone pooped on the bus popped up and i LOST it!!😂😂😂😂

[@alexandermartin9472]

I questioned it when all the original members left but my spidey senses went off when AILD did that round table video in 2018, talking about everything... The rest of the members body language spoke volumes 💯💯

[@boldroast1197]

I really don’t understand why individuals can’t be called out for their actions. Being cryptic and PC about the real story will only allow individuals to continue their negative behavior with others.

[@torinregan2229]

Phil & Nick wrote most of my favorite riffs of all time, I found them during the hiatus after Tim’s arrest and subsequently bought tickets to every stop close to me to hear the classics, I paid for a VIP ticket to HOB Chicago that got rescheduled last minute to earlier in the day which I missed. After the show I approached the merch table to ask about a possible refund and instead he took out his radio, and had someone bring me to the dressing room to just hang out for a solid 10 minutes. Super classy, and all of them gave up time after a show just to talk about old songs and sign anything I had on me. After Nick, Jordan, and Josh all left I lost all interest and it just seemed like a Tim, AILD cover band. It was already just so far from what anyone was used too and couldn’t justify paying any more to see them with only 2 original members. Knowing what we all know now, I hope they just call it quits before they dig that hole even deeper. A real shame Tim let his ego ruin the heart and soul of that band a second time. Glad I at least got to meet the original 5 on those few return tours though.

[@greenmatrix30seven]

I remember when you brought up “ making your own decision about how you wanna support them” and “ separating the artist from the art” when you talked w/ finn on his podcast early last yr. I used to be a fan of as I lay dying but when I found out about the news about Tim? I decided that I will NOT listen to them anymore. I just wont. Im sure there are ppl that do and yk… w/e im not gonna shame ppl im not gonna judge em for it. But for ME? On a personal level and when it comes to morals and ethics and beliefs and what I stand for as a person? I just simply CANNOT support something like that w/ somebody that has done a heinous appalling thing like that. So I agree w/ you honestly Tank. Enough is enough

[@alwxnstx]

As far as I remeber, Tim is the only one who "owns" AILD legally. My guess would be that Phil's statement announcement may include legal issues also regarding broken contracts etc. by the leaving members or whatever. It actually didn't sound like he was also parting ways with the band, him saying something alike moving forward... But we'll see. There was alot to read between the lines in all those statements, yet none of them really spoke out, which I find quite suspicious - unless there's more legal issues or even investigations going on regarding whatever caused the departures.

[@dawmak29]

I can't separate art from artist. AILD was one of my fave bands when I was a teenager. But the whole story was too much for me :(

[@millermann123]

You basically pay for genocide if you buy something from china. Who cares what a musician does because of mental health issues?

[@sparton500]

Kendrick here - thanks for the clean narration

[@chadhenry961]

It should be pointed out that while Tim seemed unremorseful during the trial and initial prison sentence, that changed once he got out a prison. he issued a huge apology for the murder attempt and his narcissistic tendencies, and claimed to be a changed man who was disgusted with his past self and wanted to be a better person and help other people not go down the same path, which is reflected in the lyrics of their comeback album "Shaped by Fire". Thats why many fans and some former band members (especially Nick Hipa) forgave him, they really thought he had changed. Sadly it seems he's fallen back on his old narcisstic ways and is supposedly back on steroids, but still appears nice on the surface which is why it seems people have to spend a while around him to see his dark side

[@Fanrose2475]

So here's the thing with celebrities making statements of "I've changed for the good" there's need to be actual fucking work to prove to them themselves that they are a better person. Actions over words, if he's still backsliding and making bad decisions then what's support system has failed him and he needs to be pulled back and gotten things right. In my personal opinion I've stopped taking any public figures statements seriously, I'd rather they stand 10 toes down on their bullshit and move on

[@markom.8250]

Maybe it's like Fear Factory situation, fighting over who owns how many percent of the band and new members got involved in that drama?

[@TankTheTech]

I would actually be willing to guess that’s what’s going on in this specific situation.

[@markom.8250]

@@TankTheTech And for that to happen just before tour and release of a new album? It must have been something big so sudden that drove other guys to quit or it was brewing for some time because guys mentioned "personal morals" and "personal health and integrity ", they knew what they were getting into for sure.

[@abrielrobertsson4160]

@@markom.8250 But is this something to test someone's integrity and morals though? Unless, both Ken and Nick exaggerated.

[@whiskeywitch8978]

Tim been through two wives since and can’t put down the steroids. Jasta interviewed him and he admitted he was still using.

[@josephhasse5869]

No he didn't. Stop lying

[@chriscarmagnola4757]

I also (think) i saw Tim at a park in SLC, Utah, with his newest wife about 5 months ago. He was at an open-air market browsing the local vendors. While i personally didn't interact with him, one of the vendors (who happens to be my friend) was able to recall the interaction with (maybe) Tim. Nothing to suggest he was still in a killer's mindset, although both of them seemed unaware of their surroundings most of the time.

[@benty444]

Iced Earth is another band who completely quit en masse due to another’s actions

[@The716_]

He didn't need those left wing soy boys in his band anyways. You're probably a soy boy yourself as well i'm willing to bet.

[@wolframvonstein7303]

That "Foreshadowing" edit made me chuckle, but Ken's last two cents on his Instagram declaration sent me!

[@westbunting4358]

The separation of the Artist and the Music. It is okay to say that you like a song made by someone who sucks. There are almost always additional people who help make the thing a thing. Almost no singular person does it all. It is wrong to diminish the work of 3+ other people just because one person in a group is the one that sucks. The work should be judged on its own. However, to continue a project knowing that someone within the group sucks makes the thing less palatable.

[@ryanmitchell8118]

Ill never forget meeting him a year before all the news broke i was a scrawny 17 year and durinng a signing session i made an obvious joke that i could take him and the look he gave me was so unsettling as he autographed hia bicep in the picture i gave him to sign

[@Evy-1988]

it's easy to separate the art from the artist if you're not the target or victim of what someone says or does. I also don't believe it when most people say they just want to provoke. Having said that, I listen to music that I love and I know a lot of the music I love is made by people who said and/or did very wrong stuff. It's a paradox that I don't know the answer to. I must say, though, that for example Marduk was a band where I didn't feel so comfortable at a live show. Most metal shows feel safe as anything, but apparently not so much with some bands that are more controversial. And Marduk is just one example. I know MGLA has some terrible ideology, and i know a number of bands where band members were involved with murder and all that shit. I don't know man

[@whatreallymatters571]

Honestly I think it's super easy to still enjoy things from problematic people and not give them support. Don't buy merch, don't stream the music, don't out right show support for them. Also people are just kind of lazy in my opinion, it seems harder than it is, I bet if people took 1 hour going through different bands discographies that haven't been involved in scandals like this, it would be super easy to find songs that you can love and relate too, to replace the songs from problematic people if you haven't found a way to enjoy the art without supporting them.

[@ranmanguitar]

Cheap content yes. But I appreciate your open discussion on this topic as well as others. I will also say... Tim really disappointed me all those years ago. AILD was a amazing band and I was a huge fan. If none of this wife killing drama happened and if they kept their trajectory they likely would've ended up one of the biggest metal bands nowadays.

[@mariusjohansen702]

I got a email today that their show was cancelled that i was going to on the 19th. Waiting for refund. The band hasnt said anything about it. Im just wondering what Tim did this time...

[@mariusjohansen702]

I like their music but what Tim did was really horrible. But how the hell did he only serve 3 years for it?

[@stolenlaptop]

​@@mariusjohansen702 who cares? He didn't actually hurt anybody.

[@jackcravford8744]

@@stolenlaptop Dudee........ so lets just act like he did nothing bad?

[@KFXG]

I find it funny how "personal morals" was cited as a reason for leaving the band when he joined knowing what Tim did. Clearly moral issues aren't really a big problem for him. There wasn't much moral integrity for any of the members returning and joining the band again after knowing what happened. Yeah, of course there was money involved in joining and returning, but their reputations are kind of shot in my mind because they chose to associate with him after everything he did was proven.

[@GhostOvPerdition]

I think it's already pretty clear that Tim is the reason everyone is currently quitting and why most of the past original members quit as well. Phil has been the only original member to stick through all of this. If he quits then that is undeniable proof the problem is Tim.

[@cocoloco2611]

Of course Tim is the problem…

[@princessolmeca2933]

I've been a huge fan of As I Lay Dying since An Ocean Between Us. That was my first encounter with them in high school. I got to meet Tim at a soundcheck here in Charlotte when they played at The Fillmore. He seemed like a real cool dude when I chatted with him. Mind you, I was fully aware Tim was abusing steroids at the time and tried to hire a hitman to murder his wife to get custody of his children. I was following those developments like everybody else. I know he only served less than half of his sentence and remarried almost immediately after getting out. I'm very aware the band pretty much belongs to Tim at this point. I'll still support the band, no matter what happens, though. I'm not at all surprised all this is happening knowing everything that's happened in the last decade. The flurry of rumors, the yanking of _Shaped by Fire_ off streaming platforms, the second mass exodus in less than a decade - despite all of it, I'll still be a fan of this band. I'm not making any excuses for any of Tim's behavior that almost certainly contributed to the upheaval where a second hiatus may be the end result. All I'm saying is I wanna see how Tim and Phil are going to address this happening a second time.

[@joshfairchild]

The album issue was changing labels. Just took time for it to transfer and get back on platforms under the new label.

[@themightymcb7310]

I honestly just apply a general smell test when deciding if I can separate the art from an artist. AILD never quite passed that smell test for me mostly because it felt like the "Tim Lambesis Band" at every available opportunity. When he was in jail, the members made a new band rather than replacing him. When he came back, the new band was AILD now.

[@BlackCatBritt]

I feel like there's an interesting convo to be had about how the rock/alternative scenes respond to allegations vs how fans of other genres like rap/hip-hop or even country do. Most rappers have a laundry list of priors and still make bank bc their fanbase glorifies the criminal acts & gangbanger situations. Diddy's parties were a notorious open secret for literal decades. Most country musicians are either alcoholics or in recovery from being one. Meanwhile, the rock scene has (mostly) all but done away with the "sex drugs & rock&roll" attitude, & the artists who act badly are swiftly cancelled (as they should be). Obviously these are generalizations, but it's just interesting to me how support for these people is seemingly on a sliding scale depending on the faction of the industry they exist within.

[@captainsasquatch824]

After lost profits singer was convicted. I threw their CDs into the garbage.

[@danowarhealy6890]

They are still oddly popular. Over 200k monthly listeners still to this day

[@SISMNTB]

@@danowarhealy6890 probably a combination of people that don't care since he's been sent to prison, and people that genuinely don't know what happened with their singer.

[@TankTheTech]

There seems to genuinely be a lot of people that just don’t know what happened. Lots of people out there listen to music without keeping up with news or even knowing the band members’ names of the bands they listen to.

[@bryanmctaggart6352]

“Start Something” was part of the soundtrack and I still like the songs. The problem is that they are tainted by Watkins’s actions. I felt so bad for the other bandmates in Lostprophets when that went down…hard to picture a stronger kick in the gut than that.

[@captainsasquatch824]

@TankTheTech yeah the singer went down and unforgivable and discusting path. I hope he gets his in prison.

[@joelfontaine762]

If this was the festival I'm thinking of, You did a great job doing the lighting.

[@wyattsmetal]

Hahaha not surprised at all. I'm not for canceling anyone but I never got how people just welcomed him back so freely

[@Ganbarizer]

That's because choosing not to support someone anymore for doing something that goes against your own values or morals is not canceling. Cancel culture isn't even real to begin with. Plenty of people do awful things and still have careers or are forgiven. Mike Tyson is a convicted r*pist and people love him.

[@allforhim2009]

Welcomed him back ? It’s just music guy, it’s not like you have any personal connection to a musician that made some music you enjoy. People take this stuff way too seriously.

[@deeperatmosphere]

@@wyattsmetal the savior of Metal is in town. ✊🏻😄 Didn't got it too, He never showed remorse or anything, but people bought it.. disgusting how spineless Humans are.. but that's No News. 😂 Support Killers, grapers and all the good ones, 'because it's better to have new music then None' people These days..

[@deeperatmosphere]

@@allforhim2009 the world is such a beautiful place because of people like you. He wanted his wife killed, so what Part of that shouldn't be taken seriously.? But yeah, enjoy the music. 😂

[@allforhim2009]

@@deeperatmosphere I’m not a fan of the musicians, I just enjoy music. I don’t care if the band members serve in a soup kitchen in their free time, or blow all their money on coke and hookers. Of course it’s preferable that people are just, and decent but if some bad shit came out about a member of Converge ,for instance, I’m not throwing a single vinyl away. The music is still just as potent to me.

[@joshuamachowetz7425]

Patiently supervised the whole situation and benn waiting for your video regarding this topic!

[@insertbettername4051]

I am one of those people, that still supported As I Lay Dying after the return. I was one of the people that thought, that Tim served his time an we should give him a econd chance. Thankfully I did not buy any merch at that time and did not visit a show of them. I just bought their record Shaped by Fire if I remeber it correctly. Why did I do it? Emotional attachment to their prior discography, I guess. Nothing Left was the first time for me, when I fell in love with a riff, I did my first crowd surfing during Parallels in 2011, so I have a lot of nostalgia for them. An the problem is, the songs still hold up! And I don`t know if I can live a life without listening to my favourites of them. Thankfully I own the physical copies of their old stuff from way back, so I don`t have to support Tim ever again, while listening to An Ocean Between Us, Shadows are security, etc

[@Tsudkyk]

I felt like Tim’s actions showed what kind of person he was and I couldn’t support him. Not only was he going to have his wife murdered, but he was also going to have the mother of his children murdered- and then lie to the kids about their mothers death. What he tried to do was sociopathic.

[@rel599]

Also me

[@dylogix]

I've gotta say. Even though this is "cheap" content I love listening to this as a podcast. Keep it up :)

[@BPhillips2000]

7:20 Unearth is still going, too. Just put out an album last year (no, I'm not in any way associated with the band; I've just been a fan since 2002. The band slaps)

[@BPhillips2000]

16:40 "He did his time" Tim did serve his time for what he did, that is true. But that doesn't mean anyone has to go back to loving the band or enjoying his musical output like nothing ever happened. Everyone has their own choice to make; I've self-reflected, and my choice is not to support him. That's really all there is to it. Everyone else is welcome to agree or disagree.

[@davidlindenberger7646]

Giles is still their best song!

[@marshall0814]

​​@@BPhillips2000you self reflected about liking some corny band? You're deep, bro. 🤡

[@TheSlysterII]

As I lay Diddying? Wow what a collab that would be. Great video mate.

[@chriscarmagnola4757]

My take on Phil's announcement is this: he wants to leave, but he also wants to keep his royalties for the songs he released with the band (completely understandable; it's also more complicated than that).

[@samholdsworth420]

If he has writing credits then he has royalties he doesn't need to be in the band to get his royalty checks

[@Nui7hari]

Man. AILD music was a big part of my life for a long time! Then Tim went to jail, and I was done. I met the rest of the guys when they were touring as Wovenwar. They're all really nice (and they didn't want to talk about TIm at all, he was dead to them) When Tim got out and they reformed I had the same reaction as you, thinking they just smelled some more money with AILD. That's till I saw that round table video where they talked about everything that happend. Seeing/hearing Nick Hipa crying his heart out I thought: "If he can get over this and rejoin, I can get over it and give them another chance" Shaped by Fire came out - Awesome. Tour that followed, awesome. And then Nick quit, which rang all the alarm bells. Then Jordan and Josh quit, and I knew what time it was. The new guys joined. All good and well, but the ship sank entirely when Josh & Jordan quit for me.

[@BW_Drums]

It's such a shame because their earlier albums are so good. Especially An Ocean Between Us and The Powerless Rise. Those two albums will always hold a special place in my heart. To me, it's an equal shame that most people can't seem to separate the art from the artist. You can still love the music without loving the musician. *Edit* Well, I commented before Tank said "Fuck that" to the point of separating the art from the artist haha. Oh well, to each their own.

[@derpderpin1568]

Those definitely aren't their earlier albums. They were already done with and terrible by those two albums. Frail Words Collapse and Shadows Are Security are their only albums that were ever worth listening to. Also no it's factually much harder to enjoy music when the lyrics are about the vocalists demented fantasies. Most people don't feel right singing along to rape anthems and that's normal.

[@BW_Drums]

@@derpderpin1568 I know those two albums aren't their "earlier" albums, but they're definitely not their newer albums, and in my personal opinion, their best albums. Most of the time, I literally don't even listen to the lyrics of most bands and they mean almost nothing to me. I've never heard whichever songs you're referring to regarding rape fantasies. If you find it "factually" harder to listen to them because you don't agree with one member, that's fine. I'm not forcing you to listen.

[@mariacverdin9411]

​@@derpderpin1568LMAO absolute shit take

[@mariacverdin9411]

​@@derpderpin1568LMAO absolute garbage take.

[@bdr113080]

You hit the nail on the head. It is really funny like how you said he gets out of prison and basically the entire band left him already once and then that lineup decided to all of the sudden decide that they didn’t really have a moral problem with him trying to have his ex taken out because album sells and streaming numbers weren’t what they were back in the days of as I lay dying so they kind of sold out. As far as the fans go, Look I was raised on metal and hip-hop and yeah, I had friends in high school and we were the long-haired kids that would wear band T-shirts and we started a band and after high school I was in three other bands but honestly in the last 15 years, I don’t really hang out with other metal fans because the things they choose to get mad about and then the things they say are OK are just really weird to me. I’m not saying this goes for everyone across the board, but when I see someone say that the members of Metallica should be beaten for no other reason, then they put out an album that wasn’t thrash metal but then another band can have a lead singer that tries to have his former partner murdered and that’s OK….. that’s just metal fans for you lol

[@LeperMessiah2]

I wonder who looked over her shoulder when she wrote that. Tim Lambesis is the one man behind Diddy. Maybe not the only but you get what I mean.. I only listen to the Instrumental version and Will's remakes of it on Patreon

[@akiraalbireo397]

Thanks Tank, as always a very insightful video! What about making a video about the business stuff Phil has to deal with now? And how is it in general for musicians playing (and owning) bands, what are typical problems in these cases?

[@sonictemple2925]

My old band did a run with them right when their first album for Metal Blade came out. Tim is not a good person. We got home from that run and decided never again to play with them. My current band got offered a show with them and turned it down. I hope people will stop supporting that guy. He wasn’t good person before prison and I find it hard to believe he’s a good person after prison. Good for all the others for leaving that shit band.

[@BlackbirdSSR]

Got any more specifics? He seems so benign in interviews, it's hard to see him as a bad guy.

[@jahazielramirezbass]

What did he do?

[@joshfairchild]

@@BlackbirdSSRpsychopaths and narcissists often are very personable until you get to know them. Its part of their way to draw you in and then start the abuse but by the time you notice it its hard to leave the situation

[@dillonjames4474]

How do I go about joining As I Lay Dying? I want my shot to try out for the band but have no clue where to start.

[@griesi31]

I have never understood the argument "separate the artist from his art". For me personally, it is extremely important that I can identify with the basic values ​​and behavior of the musicians whose music I love.

[@deeperatmosphere]

Word.

[@deathpunch23]

Especially AFTER they've committed the crime, it's very strange lol

[@feroxk.9266]

thing is, 4 guys live and identify by the values portrayed by the music, one guy doesnt. What to do? i still listen to the AILD up until Awakened but past that... clear no.

[@BW_Drums]

To me, it is not at all important that I identify with anything to do with an artist. It's just a bonus if I happen to. If someone makes music I love, I can love the music without caring for the artist.

[@Evy-1988]

While I'm guilty too of listening to some horrible human beings, when people make that actual argument it feels like "yeah fuck you I don't care"

[@gingenya]

I don't want to say that he did abuse his wife, but as someone who has been in an actually abusive relationship, me trying to defend my bf at that time would sound quite similar to what Lambetos Wife has stated. It's important to know that gaslighting and codependancy can brainwash you into defending your abusers (sometimes even if you actually know better, it's like a compulsion because you can feel like you literally wouldn't survive without that person). I'm not saying that to feed into accusations, but for anyone reading this to keep this in mind when you know someone who you think might be a victim of partnership violence or domestic abuse. Things can be different than they look on the surface, even if the person denies that

[@darrenhill3514]

No one has said Tim was the problem yet so how wild would that be if the issue was with Phil lol

[@TankTheTech]

What a fucking plot twist that would be. 😂

[@nickshepley2566]

Thanks for talking about this, Tech You always have the most transparency and intellectual take on things happening in the industry. This AILD situation is wild

[@slashismyhommie8182]

Note to all you soon to be divorced dad's out there. Any "hitman" you meet with, it's an undercover cop. Every story I have heard of someone hiring a hitman, it's always a cop.

[@Luissv72]

That's because every time it worked, you never heard about it XD

[@Turboyeehawguitar]

Divorce courts are so bad to men i get how some guys get to that point. Aint right but i get it

[@slashismyhommie8182]

@@Turboyeehawguitar you're living in the past man, divorce courts today default to 50/50 custody and finances. The only time the divorce courts now a days favor one party over the other is if the person has a criminal record, physically abusive or unfit parent. But keep listening to manosphere podcasts.

[@bradmohr8098]

If you want something done right.....

[@Maialeen]

The way you're implying it's common for men to be criminaIs.

[@Droxcy]

I went to their first show back with the whole group and it felt amazing. But as soon as Nick & Jordan and Josh bowing out I knew it was over.

[@jan22309]

Unearth is all the Metalcore i need.

[@themobseat]

I'll list all of the metalcore I need below:

[@RD24LFG]

You look healthy, brother. Keep up the good work. 7 years over here for me. Day by day.

[@John_Souls]

I kinda get this. Like, I will probably never listen to any Disturbed again, because of Draiman is currently doing. It's literally uncomfortable, it's probably the same thing with people listening to As I Lay Dying.

[@ALoneGrunt]

What’s David up to?

[@hersh23]

I'm not a Disturbed fan. Haven't kept up. What is Draiman up to that's uncomfortable?

[@chriscrocker3976]

​@@ALoneGruntLong story short, Dave is very pro Isreal cause he has family there.

[@DragonKnightX12]

So cry baby reasons. Lol

[@John_Souls]

@@DragonKnightX12 Here we go

[@nuggetstew4380]

I remember going to see Meshuggah in San Diego around November of '23 and it just so happened that Tim and Phil were both there, but NOT sitting anywhere near each other in the VIP booths. Tim was accompanied by his wife, Tosin Abasi, and Misha Mansoor. Was a very surreal moment to see all those guys. I always found it odd that Phil and Tim wouldn't be next to each other though. I just hope that Unearth gets to have an original lineup reunion now that two of those guys dipped out of AILD.

[@Wernershnitzl]

The biggest shock of this to me is Tosin and Misha in Tim's company for some reason.

[@allosanthrwpos542]

I don’t care they left the band and I’ll still be loving their music , but why the fuck did they delete all albums post 2012 on Spotify 😢😢😢

[@themobseat]

It's always about the money.

[@svicidal]

You kinda touch a topic there that is in my head for a long long time now. Can you separate the art from the artist. More often I can not anymore. I mean I liked the FIR music but all those comments by Ronnie just annoy the living hell out of me and it ruined the music for me. Every time I hear a song a stupid quote from him pops up into my head and I hate it but I can not turn that off. However I feel like we people are always kinda not true with ourselves when it comes to topics like that. If it is our all time favorite band, we probably let a lot more things slide that we critize on bands that we just "like". I am not different here. I was 13 when Sum 41 became a thing and they have played a huge role in my life growing up. Shifting to music and kinda going to "harder music styles" from that point on. So if some shit would come up with them. I would probably let certain things slide that I wouldn't let slide with other bands. It's just a difficult topic and probably one that could be discussed for hours.

[@dh6565]

As i lay dying laid down to die yrs ago

[@peturjacobheinesen3614]

Damn i love your energy. You're very good at keeping it interesting! For me, i've never stopped listening to AILD due to Tim's actions. I'm not gonna let HIS actions be the reason to shut off every other bandmember's effort to this band. There is more to AILD than just Tim.

[@csdarlington86]

As I lay Dying apologists was a big thing for years. Heard sooooo many people give Tim a pass because he served his time. Trying to kill your Wife is probably one of the worst things someone can do. No excuses for that. And no way 8 could ever support that type of person even if he said sorry and did his time.

[@JamesLatimer]

Funny that you mentioned Trapt as they're part of that 'separate the artist from the art' for me. Haven't listened to anything new of theirs, but I still tend to listen to the older stuff that I've liked for years.

[@RogueCow]

Wonder if something else happened, or just the general “he tried to have his wife killed” fan hate was too much for them

[@TankTheTech]

I'd be willing to guess it was something else, because the band members have said they were fully aware of the drama when they joined the band.

[@dragonblazer96]

I caught the end of their set at the New England Metal and Hardcore set. Didn't really care to see them due to Tim, but was coming back from seeing PeelingFlesh and wanted to get to the stage to see Suicidal Tendancies. Unfortunately, they actually sounded amazing. These guys will have no trouble finding other bands, and its time for metal to leave Tim behind

[@jeffswin]

wasn't falling in reverse ronnie radke in prison also? BMTH told him to take a hike. why still listen to them?

[@jeffswin]

It was Escape the Fate, not BMTH

[@TankTheTech]

Ronnie Radke went to jail for violating a probation order.

[@jeffswin]

@@TankTheTech Thanks Tank, really enjoy your show. However, the question should be why was he on probation? The answer is he committed a crime and plead guilty and received: 5 years for felony murder 18 months for battery with substantial bodily harm 18 months for associating with criminals 6 months for drug possession I'm not sticking up for the As I Lay Dying guy at all but seems like a lot of folks have "selective" outrage over peoples mistakes. Ronnies actions actually involved a guy losing his life. All kinds of musicians do stupid stuff and we can all choose who to listen to.

[@josuesamaniego182]

Really respect your view on music and listening to what you want.

[@nilesrodriguez4343]

As I Left Dying

[@Stormblessed_4]

I only recently discovered this band, they have a lot of bangers I really dig. So I choose to separate the art from the artist and keep listening. Although I respect that others won't.

[@yaboyjay7202]

Still defending StP and saying them being fascists is "blatantly, clearly not true" while talking about AILD is peak irony

[@justinwillms17]

The thing about the initial reunion and why I was on board was because all the original members seemed cool with it and forgiveness was granted. Looking back on that awkward video, I may have been looking at it through rose coloured glasses. That being said. I was digging them for a bit even with the new crew. But when I say “I’m done” I am meaning I am done with giving them (really just Tim) any more chances.

[@getshwiftygaming447]

Not to defend Tim but he explained a lot of things on the Garza podcast and the law system already had it's way with him. He knows he's hated for it and he understands why, there's a lot more to the story than we know. As far as PEDs go, yes they do 100% change you mentally if you do them consistently and irresponsibly as most people do. The prison did medically neglect him because steroid use causes gyno(the male body is no longer producing testosterone which is extremely dangerous) and without medication it can cause lifelong medical issues.

[@ryanegeler6059]

Also, their 2019 (I think that was the year) album Shaped By Fire has been pulled from all streaming platforms. As a fan that really sucks, because that was the album that got me hooked on the band. So much so I went back quite a ways, and listened to the vast majority of their library. I didn't even know anything of Tim's past until Ryan Nef had announced his departure, and I saw people were mentioning how Tim had hired an "IT specialist" to "Alt F4" his ex wife, and had served time in prison. This just really sucks. Though I'll admit that I might be taking this harder than I should because I recently lost my grandfather last Saturday. So my emotions are all over the place lol.

[@samholdsworth420]

Aild is gay... Three non gay bands Shadow of intent Disembodied tyrant Synestia Enjoy

[@brianwalker8412]

People swoon over Peter Steele even though there is a video out there of him saying and I quote "I'm a really huge fan of Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin"...

[@DragonKnightX12]

Was he serious tho? Back then you could make edgy jokes without a billion cry babies trying to cancel you. Lol

[@perlundgren7797]

There's a pretty substantial difference between "Peter Steele saying provocative shit with a sneer, part 34846" and actual actions.

[@TankTheTech]

@@DragonKnightX12 Yeah, I'm not familiar with this video and this is the first time I've heard about it, and I would personally never make a joke like that, but Peter definitely had the personality to just say wild shit like that to freak people out.

[@DragonKnightX12]

@@TankTheTech Yea that was kind of his thing. Metallica and Manson also said and did a lot of edgy stuff.

[@mechagunt7031]

k

[@Courtneey428]

I had started listening to them again after watching Tim on the Garza Podcast last year. AILD was the band that made me fully immerse myself into the metal scene as a teenager so it was nostalgic. Unfortunately, I just can't separate the art from the artist again.

[@djpylloz]

The ian watson comparison is apples to oranges. Tim didnt diddle kids.

[@thegayphantom9655]

Literally was thinking that !!

[@christiankirkenes5922]

Finally! A chance for me to join a band 🎉

[@MissteryDiva]

Rood rage is real- Chris Benoit unalived his wife, son & himself. Thank God Tim didn't go that far. Now he's getting his Karma

[@allforhim2009]

Unalived?

[@deeperatmosphere]

@@MissteryDiva roid rage is real, but Chris Benoit had No roid rage. He had CTE from all the concussions He took over His career.. His brain was in the state of that of a 70 or 80 year old with dementia.. They found that out after the obduction, He was really delusional and paranoid in his last months..

[@deeperatmosphere]

@@allforhim2009 KZbin speech for killed.. KZbin Blocks comments with certain words..

[@deeperatmosphere]

@@MissteryDiva roid rage is real, but Chris Benoit was Not roid raging.. He suffered from strong delusions and Paranoia, he had CTE and His brain was in the State of a 70 or 80 year old dementia Patient when He commited the murders..

[@deeperatmosphere]

@@MissteryDiva roid rage is for sure real.. But Chris Benoit did what he did because he had CTE, his brain was in the state of a 70 or 80 year old dementia Patient.. He was strongly delusional and paranoid in his last months before the crimes..

[@cowboystormchaser]

I saw them on their comeback tour with Phinehas in 2019. Accidentally got to the venue an hour early b/c of a timezone difference and snagged a front row spot. During "Darkest Nights" Tim did a round of fan handshakes and mine was one of the ones he shook. He grasped it so firmly and emphatically like we really had a connection and it was a highlight of the show for me. It's a shame to see things come to this now. Maybe the final demise of AILD will be the last remaining chance to truly bring a change in Tim's heart.