The Devastating Mid-Air Collision Of AeroMexico Flight 498 | Air Crash Confidential S1 E1

[@bartofilms]

I was on an AeroMexico DC9/MD80 out of John Wayne Intl. bound for La Paz, BCS. ( months before fore this crash. I was sitting by window, just fwd of Rt Wing. A white Cessna 172 flew right at us from a 45deg. Angle. Cessna Pilot flew just under our wing. I saw his face, his aviator glasses and leather bomber jacket. That is how close it came. The DC9 pilots would never have seen him. I am 57 now, but I will never forget that experience. I don’t know who to blame, but I know for a fact we were still in Class B Air Space. That little Cessna should NOT have been anywhere near us.

[@pillettadoinswartsh4974]

I once spent 4.5 hours sitting in a 777 on a tarmac at Heathrow. I didn't complain once. I enjoy being alive.

[@chrissywales6575]

I take it you haven't seen the episode where a plane exploded because of the time sat waiting with the air conditioning on

[@ronniewoodinsteadofmt2615]

@@chrissywales6575 Touchdown.!! Yep Swiss Air . Great comment.!! Take Care

[@rss1761]

That TWA800 ,probably it’s s cover up

[@christinekinzel7850]

Same thing happened to me. We were flying from Heathrow to LAX back in 2008. Our plane ended up stuck on the tarmac for about 4 hours while they changed out one of the landing gears. They wouldn't let us get off the plane during that time. But much better safe than sorry.

[@DR.DisInfect]

Iid throw a fit that's why I don't fly

[@Boyso5407]

The KLM was NEVER given clearance to takeoff. The pilot was rushing everything cause he was worried about going over his hours and had actually tried to takeoff a moment before they crashed and the co-pilot had to tell him not to go. His impatience caused that accident

[@DC-zu2qx]

Absolutely...

[@ronniewoodinsteadofmt2615]

KLM pilot the captain had a tremendous ego . I had read some stuff about him . A real piece of work

[@The-warrior1]

Captain Van Zanten, was rushing and worried about the delay. True his impatience killed over 500 people.

[@mansoormannix1753]

The Captain who was supposed to ensure the safety of everyone onboard, driven by anxiety and egos, he made a fatal decision that killed 500 passengers including himself.

[@daviddavis3389]

​@@The-warrior1was that captain Van Zanten Ed elated to Steven Can Zandt? If so, he was a heck of a Gutairist!! He may know Rachelle Van Zanten perhaps?

[@yamato6114]

Working three 12 hour shifts back to back should not be legal. Sleep deprivation can literally cause psychosis. It’s honestly no wonder the controller made that mistake.

[@ImOnAJourney]

22:37 She’s absolutely right. Live each day like it’s your last, life is short.

[@DR.DisInfect]

It feels so long

[@_Shadoh_]

@@DR.DisInfect Then you must be young. It feels shorter and shorter the older you get.

[@UpinsmokeXI]

@DR.DisInfect One persons life is minute compared to how old the planet is, you will live on average 70 years but the earth will continue for millions more. Make the most of it

[@synapse7274]

As soon as I heard Las Palmas I knew where this was headed. I'm surprised it showed up in a video about "Mid-Air" Collisions though.

[@ellenbryn]

Great doc. One minor correction: Thaf Air Mexico/small private aircraft crash at Cerritos just outside LA wasn't due to "distractions" but bc limited viewing angles and the speed of jets make "see and be seen" unreliable. The little plane ahead and below couldn't see the descending jet overtaking it, and the jet's nose and slightly raised angle during descent meant the jet's crew had only 5 seconds to spot and react to the small plane partly camouflaged against the busy cityscape. Once again, miscommunication and radio static played a part. The jet crew had seen it earlier when they were farther away, but the pilot monitoring lost it when he checked his instruments, noticed it was gone when he looked up, said they must have passed it (since the jet was a much faster pkane), but due to static the controller heard him say they were PASSING if, so he thought they still had visual contact.

[@janellehoney-badger6525]

I think the AeroMexico collided with a small Piper Ch, with family of 3 who were lost, also in the TCA, crashed over Cerritos on the Labour Day weekend 1986 where the junior controller was unfortunately distracted by another small plane inside the TCA. Very sad. I’m fairly sure the PSA collided/flew into a small Cessna with a trainee pilot wearing a training hood, in 1978? Very similar, ugly situation. Both cases are on Mayday/Air Crash Inv. If you want more details. I’m certainly not bragging here, I’m not like that, I don’t think… I did a mortuary assignment on DVI, using some of these cases, I also found the investigations really fascinating & they helped cure my fear of flying, strangely enough. I feel deep empathy for all families involved & other lives ruined. I can only ensure that many other lives have been saved due to the lessons learned thanks to the investigators of these horrible events.

[@FRAME5RS]

Why can we send probes to Pluto but can’t make clear static-free radios or cctv footage that isn’t grainy ?

[@tonymorris4335]

@@FRAME5RS We can, it comes down to cost though. A CCTV that has good low light imaging would cost hundreds of times more than the cheap sensors we use. Nobody wants to pay 10k for a camera that a 100 dollar camera does the same job with less quality. 99% of the cameras out there will never need that higher resolution/contrast that we need. It just has to wait for that kind of sensor to come down in cost same as the cheap ones did initially. For radio it comes down largely to range and reliability. We can do digital radio systems that are noise free and even work without blocking each other out. There are simplex, duplex, half duplex, and full duplex for example to avoid blocking the other radio user out by using differing frequencies for transmit and receive but that's for smaller numbers of systems where you can have two seperate frequencies that they're both always tuned to etc. For aircraft they all need to be able to hear and talk to hundreds of other planes simultaneously on the same listening frequency so they need to only stay on one carrier freq that's known and broadcast as the comm channel. Digital can get around the noise and the blocking but is subject to it's own cons, one of which is usually that range is longer on analog because a weak signal is still going to come through. Noisy and garbled maybe sure, but it WILL come through on your headset. A digital one that is out of range will just drop entirely. You get either a perfect signal, or no signal. It might come in and out and the in will be very clear, but it won't be understandable. With standard ICAO phrases an analog radio is fine. You might not understand their words as a layman but pilots and ATC know the words they use and what they mean and it's easy to pick those words out even with crappy radio signals. It's also a cost thing coming back to the first point. Radios not only in aircraft have to be replaced but an whole new ground infrastructure needs to be introduced and there's very little benefit or reason to do either. The craft sending photos back from Pluto took ages to do so because of the distance and frequencies required to communicate at that range. It's a different problem entirely and one where timing and patience are unique.

[@dew9103]

I believe you’re mixing up PSA 182 here, aeromexico did not made that comment

[@MeaHeaR]

you're confusing The Lyrics withé the PSA 182 727

[@massey4business]

I remember being 10, about to be 11 when the Cerritos plane crash occurred. The following weekend my dad took us to Cerritos just out of curiosity and see what we could. He knew ground zero would be blocked off and sure enough they had a few blocks completely closed except for local residents. We couldn't see much cause of how far away we were but I'll never forget the smell of jet fuel in the air. It haunted me for months. Replaying in my mind what all those people must've gone through. It left quite an impression on me to say the least.

[@PsychicPsal1742]

What an irresponsible father, exposing his children to that, just so he could rubberneck.

[@quietguy1948]

To the victims - Rest in Peace. To the families, loved ones - May God give you peace.

[@jlh4jc]

2:51 I can only imagine the excruciating horror those poor souls were feeling in their last moments alive. Very haunting photo.

[@barbarachambers7974]

I remember the last one. The memorial is beautiful, poignant and haunting...

[@edzebrowski4445]

My prayers are with you all. Especially the father of little girl. How horrific. She is now in heaven my friend

[@robinblick9375]

How do you know this?

[@David-tt1rb]

​@@robinblick9375yeah - i heard that she went straight to Hell

[@UpinsmokeXI]

@ robinblick9375 It’s called wishful thinking nobody can guarantee anything exists after death that’s why religion was created , most humans always need something to believe in even if there is damming evidence to suggest such thing doesn’t exist and is man made

[@EpicJoshua314]

This was such a great show. I loved Season 3 and hope the show will be picked up for a Season 4.

[@mikebledig7208]

The thing is this, no matter what anyone says, lives were lost, and that can never be undone. Remember, life is very precious. You never know when the one you love will be taken. So, be it someone you know in anyway what so ever, just let them know they matter to you. Even if you just say “I love you”. Because in the end, you’ll never get that chance ever again in this world.

[@vijeetraj4987]

❤

[@HarryMarsee-fw9ot]

This remark concerns the story told at the 30 minute mark. What grieves me about this story is they fault the ONLY ONE doing his job. The slacker who took twice as long of a break than he was allowed is truly the one at fault; but, he is NEVER blamed! He VERY CLEARLY shirked his duty by leaving the only one doing his job doing his job PLUS the slacker's workload!!

[@RobynHode8]

The KLM flight couldn't clear the PAN AM flight because he has just refueled and was too heavy.

[@djpalindrome]

Great episode - one I haven’t seen a dozen times over to boot

[@PRC_E5]

I remember my grandpa telling me how he actually saw the Überlingen collision. He heard an explosion of some sort and went on the balcony of his apartment in Konstanz, Germany to see the planes falling from the sky. And yea, it was Überlingen, Germany. Not Zurich, Switzerland like this show’s track shows.

[@bobcuster8930]

Interesting! Correction: Cerritos is 20 miles from Downtown L.A. No one who lives in Cerritos would describe themselves as living in Los Angeles. Thanks.

[@Wargasm54]

Damn. What’s worse than losing a plane? Losing a plane full of children 😢

[@daviddavis3389]

LOL!!! You are correct.

[@Homepage.]

@@daviddavis3389 how is that funny?

[@RaymondHaley-lv2mo]

These horrifying plane crashes are enough to keep me on the ground

[@RahulRk-tr7ot]

But Some people on the ground were also killed by Plane crashes.🥲

[@junetomlin1]

Angry at the father who killed controller ,i understand his grief but to kill a man who was not to blame and in front of his Family.was outrageous .

[@olga2513]

I would like to ask him if he felt any better after he killed the controller?

[@matthewc3120]

3 years in prison for premeditated murder seems like a slap on the wrist. Must have been a very sympathetic jury/judge.

[@AS-yz2iz]

I agree 💯.

[@blue9multimediagroup]

​@@olga2513he said in interviews that he had no regrets

[@vincentkimani1077]

The things he must have told himself to justify his actios are crazy other people lost their loved ones too and even worse is what the poor controller guy must have been feeling after that incident but the other victim relatives didn't resort to going on a stabbing spree.....the controller was just a small piece in the puzzle and better still the apology woud have been more impactful if it came from the Zurich airport not from Nielsen

[@ricky8alta]

May all those that perished in these accidents rest in peace 🙏

[@ucheprotocol4855]

Amen

[@pauljordan4452]

And rise in glory.

[@biophillie]

The Aeromexico DC-9 was in their correct lane coming inbound over Cerritos (and over my head). Kramer was flying the Piper in the main incoming corridor to LA from the beach route. The piper was not supposed to enter the corridor. He did, and flew into the tail of the DC-9. The tail was broken, the jet rolled over and fell inverted for 28 seconds (if I remember correctly), plowed into my neighborhood, killing many. Bad scene is an understatement. The piper fell into an elementary school playground killing all inside (I think it was 2 people). Terrible / rip.

[@Dovietail]

In Spanish, a "pitted" olive (adjective emphasis) possesses a pit the way furniture described as "guilded" possess gold plate or a "footed" tub possesses legs; in English, the olive HAS BEEN "pitted" (verb emphasis) and thus HAS NO PIT. At Tinerife, two different possible interpretations for that little 2-letter word "OK" essentially killed 583 people. Language is POWERFUL.

[@blue9multimediagroup]

No, it was the word TAKEOFF that was misunderstood due to radio chatter.

[@connietreloar2102]

@@blue9multimediagroup and the copilot deferrred to the pilot, even though the copilot was questioning whether they had permission to take off.

[@enitachipoyi1377]

The fog that descended onto the airport and runway was a grim reaper.

[@robinblick9375]

I thought god was in charge of the weather, just as, so we are told, he is of everything else.

[@MidnightWarrior1976]

air traffic control centers should be banned from shutting down systems. They need portable, temporary systems to fill in.

[@cattymajiv]

I'm never flying anywhere near Switzerland! Only 1 controller on duty for a whole shift is bad enough, but to have 1/2 his equipment out of order too?! Unbelievable! That's a guaranteed accident! And beforehand it was treated as if it was just a normal thing. It's like they said "Sure. It's a normal thing to be only half equiped, so lets increase the difficulty by having him work alone!" No tower should ever have just 1 person staffing it. There are a million possible problems. Some of the laise' faire attitudes I see on these shows scare me to death!

[@SummonerOrthan]

The most irresponsible thing about ALL of this is allowing a civilian participate in the search for the bodies of his own family. 😒

[@indianfan1029]

So what arrangement you prefer? One where airlines are given the most conducive atmosphere to cover up and lie.

[@RahulRk-tr7ot]

Bruh.If you are saying about the Dhl collision.nobody forced him to participate in search.

[@Dave-id6sj]

Peter Nielsen was not working alone, he had a second controller and a clerk working with him, the second controller as was long standing practice on the graveyard shifts, went on an extended break leaving Nielsen running 2 consoles. All it would have taken would be for him to get the clerk to go and get the other guy. But ingrained complacency drove his thinking and he tried to manage the workload alone, with degraded systems due to servicing and unexpected traffic requiring assistance. This is why Skyguide was found to blame, and 4 execs were charged over the poor management that allowed this whole situation to occur.

[@indianfan1029]

Charged but punished? I guess not. They just waited for things to cool down, and then released them? Thats my estimate, correct me if I am wrong.

[@henrysantos121]

*Rip-to all victims souls.🙏*

[@pauljordan4452]

Not just the soul, the body also.

[@albertsammut433]

I'm an Aeronautical Engineer of 30 years experience and even if me and my team do our work to perfection..THERE ALWAYS IS the unexpected unknown that pops its ugly head..I'm convinced sometimes that these are supernatural phenomena controlled by an energy source way above that of humanity.

[@julieleimkuehler1409]

Or simple mistakes. Mistakes happen every day, even with highly trained professionals.

[@albertsammut433]

@julieleimkuehler1409 Yes mistakes happen but they are always picked up as all team members overlook each other's work..then it has to pass thorough inspection by inspectors as being done to the required standard and signed off as airworthy..No mistake ever gets very far in the Aero industry.

[@Mike_Jones281]

What's supernatural about accidents that have a rational and scientific explanation behind them?

[@albertsammut433]

@Mike_Jones281 NO wrong not everything can be explained rationally and scientifically..Especially if there is no physical evidence to examine thoroughly and deeply to back up the theories without any doubt..Take the many Bermuda Triangle disappearances over the years..Everyone has Scientific explanations and theories as to what happened but without hardcore physical evidence as backup..it's all just speculation..and nothing else.

[@liukang3545]

engineer, but still dumb as sheet

[@EricWhiteTheGamer]

The last one was not the fault of Tcast (the narrator said it was), it was very much right, not even the fault of either pilots or ATC. It was the fault of the four executives found guilty, but more importantly, it was an error of Tcast not communicating with the ATC.

[@AS-yz2iz]

The narrator didn't say it was the fault of Tcast.

[@EricWhiteTheGamer]

They said something along the lines of "Tcast would be to blame for this next one (indicating the final clip)" Wording like that causes people to assume it was the fault of Tcast (as I did)@@AS-yz2iz

[@piabader4106]

​@@EricWhiteTheGamerrussian pilots follow ATC or TCAS, Western pilots follow TCAS

[@Pringy]

The narrator did go on to explain that TCAS actually worked as it should have but the Russian pilots followed ATC’s instruction to descend instead of following the climb instruction being given to them by TCAS. The pilots however are not to blame at all, they followed a command from ATC whom they had trusted to navigate them safely from harm.

[@indianfan1029]

Just curious as to how the override instruction led to the collision. Because only one plane, the Russian one was following it. The other plane which was at a lower attitude was descending. I mean was there a chance that the two planes were actually never going to collide in the first place.

[@davidbaldwin1591]

23:50 Here is a phrase that has crept into ATC: "I'm sorry". It is good to apologize for a mistake, but with many many new controllers, the lingo is changing.

[@reaper121]

Rest in Peace to the passengers and crew and God Bless those families who lost loved ones. So sad that the children lost their lives so very early in life.

[@snehalurkude6650]

It's heartbreaking that however technically sound we become, there are still many air disasters happening around

[@Epic_C]

Those DEI hiring practices now will be making it worse

[@indianfan1029]

Thats because the basic issues are never addressed. They just make new checklists for every crash. To prevent a similar from happening in the future. Thats like picking one number from a set of (1, infinity) and eliminating that type of crash.

[@conigjo62]

I remember as a teenager hearing about the " KLM pan am crash"

[@edzebrowski4445]

Damn, imagine the thoughts of those people. Rip

[@doloreswinsbarrow1110]

Wow my heart goes out to all the family's: don't no much about airplane flying, and crashing but this is horrible; so many die SAD.

[@4zims]

The last name Durian is crazy

[@Rohit674-c3v]

Make video on mid air collusion in India in 1996 Saudi Arabia and kajak airplane

[@JamesStreet-tp1vb]

When you're in an airport waiting for someone on a flight that is long overdue and you and everyone else thats waiting for the flight to arrive are asked to go to another part of the airport, you know something horriffic has happened.

[@ReyKaf]

Nice, a new one at last!

[@WonderDocs]

More to come!

[@ReyKaf]

@@WonderDocs ❤❤

[@PetraKann]

The KLM pilot broke a fundamental rule in aviation - he did NOT have a clearance to take off

[@liukang3545]

we know shitstain, we watched it

[@PetraKann]

@@liukang3545 Who is this "we" ? And don't be rude with people you don't know

[@ikkelimburg3552]

That ‘fundamental rule’ only came in play AFTER that collision to prevent future collisions like that one…

[@PetraKann]

@@ikkelimburg3552 so pilots could take off without ATC clearance before this incident? I dont think so my friend.

[@PetraKann]

@@liukang3545 so when are you going to reveal who or what this “we” you referred to is? Are you part of a committee that flings insults online? Does your committee all retract insult and apologise? Or are actually scared and acting alone?

[@yasserbanse]

How can one air traffic controller be monitoring four planes at a time, completely impossible

[@Westernmassoutdoorboys]

Great video

[@moebazzi340]

RIP to all the childerns. so so so heartbreaking

[@abailey108]

Insane 😢

[@ericdurae5085]

Born in Anaheim February of 86 I was legit a little over a month old!!!!

[@ajitsingh5020]

Just feel really sad for the father

[@murattanyel1029]

A classmate of ours and our physics teacher perished in the crash over Zagreb.

[@MidnightWarrior1976]

small plane pilots who wander into the wrong places need to have a lifetime ban on flying. Like Harrison Ford.

[@OGRDawg]

This is why I'm scared to fly anymore, and I work for a major airlines.

[@jacquelinerussell8530]

The father of the two children and the wife on the plane has gotten away with murder He fatally stabbed the ATC whom he thought was responsible for the collision the crash and he had the nerve to allow himself to be interviewed What a disgrace 🤨🤨🤨

[@pillettadoinswartsh4974]

The tower at Tenerife has been renamed to "Babel"

[@WingWarnings]

NICE COVERAGE.

[@alb.dersame]

Amazing how most airports are among the busiest in the world.

[@danielmcguinn5007]

Rest in peace

[@InfoRanker]

Dude murdered a man in cold blood and only served 3 yesrs? Wow that is crazy

[@susanhilton3436]

The stories from the Families of all the Children who died are Devastating

[@carolwatanabe7576]

Nelson should at least have sent condolences to all the families whose children were killed in the crash. It was not the pilot's fault for deciding to follow the human instructions.

[@J24J]

To murder a man who was not to blame and then get called a hero? He should be in prison for life, not three measly years! You probably get three years for shoplifting. That’s some justice.

[@MoxieSong]

The last incident seems like it should have been foreseen during risk assessments.

[@curtispandachuk9323]

583 people?! Wtf!

[@ashleyobrien4937]

Here's a question I bet no one can answer : at what time in recent history, was the demand on pilots for multitasking/flying the greatest ?

[@philipusher4282]

5::07 "Yugoslav airspace". There's a blast from the past.

[@khozenn]

I don't know how to say this, but I miss the (REENACTMENT) videos you know, the ones about survival.

[@whistlingninja11]

I've seen at least three documentaries about the 2002 collision, and every time, I wonder why the filmmakers keep interviewing Kaloyev. He's a murderer, not a hero.

[@randallsmerna384]

It doesn't land in the suburb... it crashes in the suburb.

[@patriciapersonnic9674]

and 1 Person ONLY from the KLM survived ... Robina van Lanschot ... was saved by love as she wanted to stay in Tenerife with her boyfriend as she was living on this island & did not wanted to make the travel back from Las Palmas ....

[@HPsTractor]

On Air.

[@abailey108]

Not one I have seen a trillion times

[@GReaper]

Only 3 years for pre-meditated murder?! That's insanely too little.

[@verabolton]

Agree. And he's considered a hero at home 😳

[@kevinriddell2105]

How did he find out where the air traffic controller lived? And I agree he should have spent a long time in prison.

[@ricktandron3669]

There will ALWAYS be hot-heads who never learned procedures or who disregard all the safeguards. There will ALWAYS be collisions. It's 100% pilot error or service error. Every time.

[@Lisa1111]

Bound to happen eventually. 💔 Man will always be fallible.

[@ryannevanderburgh6031]

murder is never the answer no matter how much your grieving you do not kill out of revenge it wont bring your loved once back

[@gracegeltmacher9878]

That woman was absolutely right anything can happen anywhere at any time in a blink of an eye and people humans take that for granted they don't think about it they just do and these are the consequences of not thinking and doing it's really a shame sad really sad all because of a miscommunication or human error

[@elvinmaponde3652]

Who else loved the translator?

[@jackparker8686]

?And or....TCAS with bright strobing until it does not sense a collision ?

[@henrysantos121]

*Matatan -(".👀.")- Ribirin H-S*

[@tintin9573]

Tenerife Airport disaster was worse than this (souls lost wise)

[@alejandragutierrez5694]

*voy a viajar en aeromexico* mis recomendados de youtube:

[@antoniobranch]

Blood Typed Regulations and Tombstone Technology.

[@matt1985matt]

0:26 "Blink of an EYEEE" 0.0

[@NickHobbs]

watched until about 11 minutes until an implanted advert came in and then left.

[@lilskully10]

After watching alot of accident docs I realize pan am has way to many accidents

[@ricktandron3669]

"Stand by and wait for permission to take off.." = "blah blah blah blah not important don't care gonna be me gonna do my thing"

[@jackparker8686]

?TCAS with loud horn until it does not sense collision ....?

[@russellst.martin4255]

"Worse than losing your wife in a car crash"? Enjoy sleeping on the couch buddy

[@philipusher4282]

Yes, I thought exactly the same thing, it was a weird comment.

[@madfinntech]

It will be interesting to see if these air crash shows will report unbiasedly all future crashes because of DEI hiring practices in cockpits and air traffic controllers.

[@AS-yz2iz]

💯

[@magdaleneanna1]

My cousin was one of the local volunteer firefighters that were called to the scene of the Zurich crash case. Members of my family actually saw the sky light up when the planes crashed and exploded, and pieces of the planes landed in their yard and over their property. In that area of southern Germany, it was sheer luck that people on the ground were not killed. Even though largely rural, it is not like it is in North America. The farms and villages are tightly packed together. The father who killed the air traffic controller is no hero. He killed an innocent man. I am surprised he only got 4 years. He should have gotten way longer. Grief is no excuse for cold blooded murder.

[@TheBoringLlama]

Sad

[@stevenherrold5955]

I SAY IF YOU WANT TO WIN THIS BATTLE there needs to be a cutting back on the number of flights in any given air space NOT increase

[@B_i_a_n_c_a_GEORGIOU]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[@Coollagoon1]

Any captain who are so I’m a hurry should never be given a pilot license

[@hxreal7682]

Harry brought me here

[@ThomasDickensheets]

Total fatalities 82 Total injuries 8 Total survivors 0

[@triumvir_hunt]

29:20 lime lime lime. how should anyone know what to do there ? those voices should be a lot more clear.

[@nadineb2726]

You mislead people. The KLM captain never should have tried to take off he was not given clearance. It wasn't a misunderstanding it was just ignorance and a serious case of get their- itis.

[@visulino]

Really? The Aeromexico pilots failed to see that intruder toy plane crashing into its tail? A toy plane that was not supposed to be there?

[@barbiek3987]

I thought it has already been proven that 'see and be seen' doesn't work in reality. Would be interested to know how many collisions have been AVERTED because pilots saw the other. I know TCAS has been a great help, but what about just pilots SEEING the other plane.

[@verabolton]

Try out a pilot seat one day. You'll see what you can see from it. Almost nothing. And at that high speed, even if you see, it's usually too late to move by that time (like in Tenerife)

[@barbiek3987]

@@verabolton Yes I know. It's extremely difficult for pilots to see other planes. But I would still like to know how many collisions have been averted since 'see and be seen' is still something that is advised.

[@verabolton]

@@barbiek3987 Many. TCAS is a lifesaver, a huge technical advantage in aviation. You must be blind for not seeing it. There's no "see and be seen" up in the air. That's for the ground traffic.

[@barbiek3987]

@@verabolton I KNOW that 'see and be seen' is not great. I KNOW THAT. What I'm wondering is HOW MANY COLLISIONS HAVE BEEN AVERTED by 'see and be seen'. I also KNOW that TCAS is wonderful. No where did I say it wasn't.

[@verabolton]

@@barbiek3987 Basic reasoning says that, up in the air, not many collision have been averted by "see and be seen". ATC are the eyes of the pilots while they're cruising. When you do 900 km/h and another object is coming towards you with the same speed, you need clear visibility, fast reflex and a huge bucket of lack to avoid collision. On the ground, 'see and be seen' is extremely important, you're wrong saying it wasn't "working in reality". For example, planes line up off the centerline when waiting for takeoff and don't use the whole runway, so they would be more visible for the landing planes. I recommend the channel of Mentour Pilot, a lot of great information is there.