The difference between being a victim and identifying yourself as one

[@iselalopez2001]

I believe that sometimes when we are victimized by our abusers our abuser will shame us for calling out our abuse by telling us that we are "playing the victim" and so the word itself can be very triggering because in order to not feel that shame we gaslight our selves into believing that the experience was not abusive and getting past that trigger can be a difficult.

[@iammouchette]

I know 1st hand that many people in spiritual, new age circles proselytize "don't be a victim" mentality, but don't know what they're talking about. It is damaging because the message has been distorted and becomes synonymous with sentiments of "you should be over that by now," "stop living in the past," "forgive and forget," etc. I was seeking help, and yet was continually told I was playing a victim. Coming from someone ignorant about trauma, the idea can promote suppression, deepen shame, put someone back into denial that was coming out of it. People triggered by this message might have dealt with this bypassing nonsense. Thank you for this helpful video. Edit: I watched the 10min video linked at the end of this one about victim mentality. To me it sounds like you are saying CPTSD and PTSD are basically victim mentality, which is confusing. There comes a point in recovery where you have regained your sense of self and more easily identify your inner child, flashbacks, trauma, whatever you want to call it. You could call no longer being dominated by your trauma the absence of victim mentality, but that comes later after already doing a ton of work. I'm not sure how the difference between being a victim and identifying as one is more complicated than whether or not you have authentic willingness to learn and help yourself.

[@TejubescDM]

I agree. Healing is complicated process. The idea to "move on" isn't applicable when you are triggered by small things. You want to get better but slide back. Most videos even on mental health don't explain how to regulate nervous system. It's the Claire Weekes book "hope and help for your nerves" and related youtube channels that helped me. Also Pete Walker book CPTSD from surving to thriving. I still get triggered but I know how to respond. Most people aren't aware how fight-flight system works so they can't help themselves.

[@bfreeume]

Thank you, truly agree with you. Thank you to @tejubescDM for the recommendations. In reading the comments we can learn much from one another. Thank you both. 🩷

[@red9729]

I think that a lot of people hold on to being a victim because so few get real deep validation for our pain or have been told it's no big deal/gaslighted (secondary abuse). The small t's trauma's you speak of often go so unacknowledged in family and societal systems and therapists can even do damage in this regard by not providing enough empathy and compassion etc...the need to have our pain witnessed NOT minimized can people stop holding on to their pain and story and let go of "victim" mentality...I think this can be quite a complex issue ...but yes ultimately each person has to claim back their OWN power over their past.

[@TejubescDM]

Totally agree. The reason why we feel attached to our stories is bc we don't experience compassionate witness. Especially if the type of trauma is minimized in society and you see others experiencing the same day by day. I.E, I was bullied at school and even in the mental health space there's no much talked about this type of trauma. I know kids nowadays are bullied the same way for the same reasons and teachers/society ignores it. It makes me feel enormous rage bc I know those kids will experience the same struggles I do in adult life. I can "move on " from other traumas but not this one when I know this shit happens and nobody prevents this. If you go to prison its expected to not be fun time, but if you are abused as a child in home or school where you should feel safe it's different story.

[@suzy6251]

My brutal father battered and almost killed my mother almost on a daily basis for 28 years until she escaped to a homeless shelter beside the local police station. We kids saw almost all of this. I lived alone from 14 due to this. He had us all practically captive, timing her, making her beg for money to feed us, throwing his food up the wall and making her crawl around picking it up. He poured salt all over my food just because she'd managed to get some for me. He jeered that she was an orphan and her mum and dad wouldn't save her from him (while she was screaming running from another beating) then proceeded to show no mercy. He would tell her to 'get those animals (us kids) in the kitchen' I could go on. I got police, social work, school, doctor etc and NOBODY helped. They left us to it. Now I work in the trauma therapy field, took me decades to get there. I know of some people who just stay stuck as victims and don't choose to try to grow BUT I abhor the implication of deficit in the use of the word. Was I not a victim? Were my mother and siblings not victims? We had no power, no say, no choices and a societal system that did not support us, in fact it colluded with the abuser to keep us stuck. We were indeed victims and it cost us so much throughout our lives. There was no help, just a demand to keep quiet then and it's still the same. I've worked damn hard to grow and recover then help others and NOT stay stuck, but I refuse to negate the fact that many people are victims of circumstances beyond what many can begin to imagine and recovery is not easy.

[@itr6540]

Thank you for sharing this story. There is something called right brain therapy, and I find it very helpful. There is no need to judge people and shame them further. Compassion, and kindness are very valuable virtues in human beings.

[@IreneLyon]

@suzy6251 - Mara here with Team Lyon. I'm sorry for the abuse that you and your family suffered without support for so long. It sounds like your life force was strong to continually seek resources for yourself and others.

[@ayesha8809]

@IreneLyon Irene didn't reply though. "Sounds like your life force was strong to continually seek resources". Lol I guess fuck the people whose "LiFe FoRcE" wasnt as strong then. Any insight on what they should do? I'm guessing not cuz that would require empathy and you people that received even a modicum of love have no idea what it's like for those who didn't. Your nervous system bullshit is exactly that, bullshit. You people can't even fathom the pain people are put through. Irene laughed in this video when she said "you make your trauma extra special" and hesitated calling victims "victims" when she said people are in a "victim situation" lol the fuck is a "vcitim situation" Irene care to elucidate? ANYTHING except saying the word "victim" am I right? This channel is a clown show and if I could say that to Irene's face I would. Edit: in case you're slow, saying "victim situation" (your own words), implies that there is a victim. Make it make sense lol but you can't cuz that would require a level of empathy you simply don't have.

[@annastone5624]

@suzy6251 👏🏻 I have been very angry at the whole ‘I am not a victim’ trend for a very long time. It’s not empowering to deny you have been victimised!! ‘ I am a survivor’ that I can get behind. The advice ‘not to think like a victim’ - is also everywhere! The only people I know that ‘think like victims’, are narcissists. Most people who have suffered chronic abuse are self-critical, usually blame no-one but themselves, that’s the opposite of victim mentality, that’s *’taking too much responsibility mentality’ * very often they are in denial of how much they have been victimised and how little control they had over that. What’s even worse, is most victims of chronic abuse, have been told by their actual abusers, that they are ‘thinking negatively’ etc etc.. so they are just primed to be invalidated all over again, and will unconsciously jump at the opportunity to be positive and ‘not think like a victim’ not realising they are being sucked into an old old dynamic.. where they never get to be angry, in pain etc..

[@bfreeume]

First, so much love to you and your family. That is deeply horrible what you endured and so beautiful on how you have grown to work in the area of Trauma. Life can be truly complicated, messy and intensely painful. I deeply agree with all you shared. I really feel Irene minces words and feelings here without deep compassion. There are things some of us will never experience and know, and I feel humanity needs to develop deep mental, emotional, spiritual empathy and compassion for such experiences. Sometimes language can truly create walls rather than bridges. My spirit, heart and soul wish deep care and compassion in this world. ❤

[@starshuskies4040]

This is such an important video! I realized watching this, that I am stuck in victim mode. After recovering memories from early childhood, I've felt justified in being angry for my childhood self. My father, who is elderly, now lives with me. I started taking my feelings out on him because of the memories I was remembering. I know it's wrong to punish him now for what happened then, but I just couldn't stop being mean. My therapist recommended that we not live together but I felt very strongly that the issue was mine and not my father's. This video is the answer that I needed - I keep identifying as a victim instead of realizing that I'm a middle aged woman who's in charge of our household. I choose to take care of my father because I don't want him to go to a nursing home. Yeah, he was a shitty parent, but he had no idea what he was doing. Maybe my therapist is also seeing me as a victim and that's why I can't let it go. Learning to identify with my wise adult self has been very challenging! Perhaps my awful stories have clouded my therapist's judgement? Like she's getting sucked into my narrative??? Thanks for all of your work Irene! You're helping me get clear about myself.

[@ThomiBMcIntyre]

This is great. I get it. I think it’s an incredibly subtle, this point, and I can definitely understand someone not understanding or even being offended by it if they are not ready to hear it. If this is you, please don’t ditch Irene - you will get there ❤️

[@mreed1747]

Well said. My mom taught me this. By holding onto her trauma. I've seen her not live her life. I get what your saying thankyou for doing this video.

[@jdlc903]

Most of my life I repressed my trauma, wasn't conscious of the event. Becoming aware of it was a big deal it.

[@starshuskies4040]

Such a good comment - holding onto her trauma kept her from living life. That's been my problem, too.

[@larryjankowski-cf8vs]

Irene, I love what you're doing! I believe you had a problem with this statement because it's too vague. There's too many ways to interpret it. It also comes across as contradictory. When I do this, I'm misunderstood. Our traumas need to be acknowledged. This statement sounds like you're invalidating them. Our traumatic experiences are alive in our bodies. The somatic experience is to consciously locate them and feel the sensations. In order to heal and work the pains, pressures, and sensations out of our bodies and brains, we need to acknowledge them. They're like a child saying, mom, mom, mom, mom over and over again. Only when they're acknowledged and listened to, will they stop, and/or subside. Society, in general, ignores the traumas and crimes committed against children and adults. "C'mon, get over it. You're not the only one that happened to. You're not the only one who lost a loved one." Our traumatic experiences are and were special events because they changed the trajectory of our lives. They made our lives harder. They made us aware of certain dangers in the world that never would have been on our radar. Once traumatized, we're forever on the lookout for it to happen again. What was done to us and/or what happened to us, needs to be acknowledged as significant and life changing. Once validated, then accepted, we can begin to heal. Acknowledging you've lived through trauma and survived it IS humanity (humanity, not to be mistaken with being humane. Humanity: The human race. Human beings collectively. Humane: Having or showing compassion or benevolence). There's nothing special about it (Special: better, greater, or otherwise different from what is usual). When we make it extra special (many of us aren't trying to make our traumas extra special. We're just trying to get people to listen to us. When no one acknowledges our pain, we remain in our pain), we can fall into victim identification without even realizing it (sometimes we make our traumas extra special to compensate for the people that are incapable of validating them. Like the child saying, mom, mom, mom, sometimes they raise their voice to be heard to compensate for being ignored). Irene, keep up the good work! You and Seth rock! Larry

[@generalcontact1766]

thanks Larry.

[@ayesha8809]

The word you're using wrong is "special". Victims have never felt "special" so to tell someone who has never felt special that they're making their trauma ~extra special~ is daggers to the heart. How can you not know this? All this trauma education and just a glaring blindspot of empathy, just how? A better way of saying this could be "yes you lived through trauma and were abused and victimized (acknowledging someone's pain) but now that you are grown up and you are no longer the helpless child you once were which at the time was out of your control, you are no longer in that position. You have come so far and brought yourself into adulthood and that should be celebrated and we should work together to making you even more free of the trauma" Seriously irene i do get where you're trying to go with this it's just a poor choice of words. If you wouldn't use these exact words for a child who's going through some pain then it's not ok to use with adults either cuz mentally they're still stuck in a childlike place on some level.

[@AdrienneZazulak]

I think people may also be confused with grieving for what could have been (ex. if I had access to supports for adhd and other things as a child). For a long time, I was living in victimhood, partially because I hadn't grieved a future that may have been mine otherwise. I'm still grieving this, but now I understand the difference, and its so much easier to bear. That awareness, for me, was everything

[@alinei.8618]

Great thought! Thanks for sharing that!

[@sandracro8345]

Oh thank you Irene, it came in the right moment on my healing path. Yes, I had EC trauma , yes I was dysregulated/disconnected/frozen for decades, yes the process of healing is challenging, painful but now I am thankful that during this healing process I could finally feel the pain realising that I was and am identifing myself with all that happened to me for so long in my actual situations and people around me. At first rejecting with anger the truth because it was to intense to think being something else, then grieve and feel it in each situation I play the role, anger coming out, sensing now this so heavy weight of victim role in my body. Finally starting very very slowly to sense I have so much inner strength and remember the words I have heard and written close to my bad - “my soul cannot be broken, it is eternal” ❤.

[@bbdn5123]

May you be blessed sister ☝🏽🌌💖💫

[@jdlc903]

I don't think anyone is playing the "victim card" though. Maybe ppl found it invalidating and pushes them back into being unsafe.

[@ayesha8809]

This

[@LilMsLorelei]

@@NEbluefire yes she did. Listen to the end. I can see both viewpoints on this one.

[@wackywaver]

I feel half triggered by this video. Which is an improvement for me. I don't like being the victim. I want to feel agency. It's not always possible though and you can't deny that. Living in our world is complicated and full of limitations. I'm doing the best I can. I accept I may never completely heal but in all the ways that I can regulate my nervous system or have "power" or agency in my life and circumstances, I work to do that.

[@HEATHERMAEE55]

An individuals capacity for empathy. Love really has the power to transform all things. Love heals

[@birdsonghealingarts]

I appreciate this viewpoint, this helped me support a client struggling with "being a victim." Thank you!

[@katydid594]

I’m not 5 minutes into this video and am so disappointed by its overall message. I usually relate to your teachings, but this doesn’t sit well. Until recently, I was a victim of daily abuse, and I shouldn’t be made to feel shame for it. Peter Levin and others, including you, have said you can’t heal in the environment where the abuse took place. Until you can find a way out of the abusive relationship…. you are a victim. If you are actively being abused, you are a victim. If you don’t feel safe where you live because someone’s hurting you, and you can’t get away, you are a victim. People who have been horribly abused their whole lives, and can’t find help don’t need to be shamed. The body and mind only start to register safety once you’ve gotten away from the abuse. That’s when you begin the healing process.

[@ayesha8809]

Yes agreed and this is what no one talks about.

[@ayesha8809]

I know you're seeing the comments on this video and you likely won't responsd to them but whether you choose to read them or not in your own private time will say everything about where your empathy is in all of this. Not that any of us would know but your conscience would.

[@KKKK-ld9wb]

Wow. Although I do understand what you are saying about identifying as a victim, your words stating there is nothing special about your trauma is so invalidating. Honestly, it’s also cruel. Though I am never one to say there is anything special about me or my trauma, the reality is that the severe trauma I experienced growing up and as an adult has completely altered my life, so yes, it is f-ing important and not to be invalidated with your cruel words. I don’t know enough about you to know whether that is just the privilege of not having to try to survive severe developmental trauma or what. I mean, I don’t care if you are doing well in life or still struggling, it is still a damn big deal and I would never be so cruel as to try minimize someone’s story, which the words you are trying to defend do. The subject of victim and identifying as a victim is a good discussion, but the words you chose to promote it make you feel like an unsafe person. I don’t care if Peter Levine or 10 other experts say something, it doesn’t make it true. It’s weird to me that you used Peter and the basketball coach to defend your unempathetic and cruel word choice in this discussion. One other thing I want to mention. You compare a person who had an accident to a person who has had severe developmental trauma. No disrespect to the person in the wheelchair and has to come to terms with that, but the two are NOT the same. You are leaving out so much in this part of the discussion. As I am sure you are well aware, developmental trauma and the perpetual survival state people have to live in causes cognitive issues that make it harder to heal. Not saying one can’t heal, but let’s not ignore the toll of developmental trauma on the body and the mind and how that brings bigger challenges to the healing process. What about the psychological conditions that are the result of extensive trauma? Where is that in this discussion? Teaching people how to get well by getting out of identifying as a victim is a very delicate and hard process. Stop shaming people FFS. I know you have a lot to offer to help people heal. Defending your poor choice of words is cruel and is saying something big about you and where you are with your work. You are allowed to make mistakes and to take the words back. It doesn’t mean your original point isn’t true to you. It just means you are taking responsibility for using words that a lot of us find very hurtful and offensive. Can’t you just be sensitive to this?

[@jnl3564]

When I hear these kinds of messages, it is so crystal clear that this is not the space for me. Ive had my doubts for a while, but now I do feel certain. Same with "crappy childhood fairy" and "Ruby Franke and Connexions" and others I have long forgotten about. Theres a splitting here. An negative energy being attached to "choice" or "personal reaponsibility" or something like that. To me, its just a flavor of toxic shame and a lack of empathy. Im very familiar with it because all my religious trauma is based in it LOL. Too familiar. I'm moving on, I wish you all happy healing. Anyone who needs permission to move away from these kinds of messages has my full support.

[@natatattful]

Anyone reading this, remember, you can claim your power.

[@katydid594]

Crappy childhood fairy rubbed me wrong immediately. Victim shaming is simply another form of gaslighting and abuse. I was lucky enough to leave my abuser a short time ago. The sense of relief has been overwhelming. Only now, do I feel like healing is possible. I don’t think I will ever be “normal”, but I’m content with better. Patrick Teehan may be a good resource if you don’t know of him already. Good luck.

[@sym3428]

Crappy Childhood Fairy victim blaims? I have watched a few of her videos but not enough to get a good sense of her work.

[@edie4321]

Yes, I'm with you. KZbin is no place to heal, it only brings further trauma.

[@Tammy8823]

I think you missed her point. If you look hard enough for a reason to be offended you will find it.

[@MaughanNelson]

In my experience of healing with SE, I have had many times where I have had an unexpected realisation that "that happened to me", a huge surge of emotion and grief comes forward and I am for the first time realising that experience happened to "me". Until I have had that realisation there is no coming to terms with anything whether as a victim or not.

[@AnaIrimiabooks]

Thank you! I have recently started my spiritual awakening. Not looked for, but it was more of an intervention of my soul. Kundalini activated, and all the trauma I never even imagined I had or was a part of came up to be acknowledged and healed. The impact was so strong that it set my nervous system into disassociation and anxiety. Suddenly, many patterns came to light, and while before, I never allowed myself to consider I was a victim. Now, it seemed so strongly entitled to feel this way. The wounded selves that create this trauma based identities came to the surface and just wanted to feel and be acknowledged. I realised that despite knowing I am not in reality a victim, as this is very ancestral trauma, I still fell onto the "why me? Why this way? Why do I have to spend my time healing in my 40s?". And i allowed it to come up and express as it was. While I soothed and talked to myself. Something like the adult-child conversation. I do embrace the victim mentality sometimes, even though I know i am not. I need to do the emotional work. So, thanks for this video.

[@ASMRPerfumeReviews]

I love this! Everything you’re saying validates people’s trauma, I hope people can see that. I myself can say that I USED TO have mental health disorders, health conditions, addiction, and eating disorders that now I DON’T HAVE anymore…I’m so grateful to be able to say this. All those diagnoses are no longer part of me. I don’t believe “once you’ve been given a depression diagnosis, it’s always with you”, or any of that type of philosophy. These are states I’ve learned to move through now that I understand my nervous system. And I know it’s not like this for everyone, but I’m evidence that deep change CAN happen.

[@ayesha8809]

You also laugh when you say "there's nothing special about it"... cmon irene...

[@PHanomaly]

I hear what she is saying loud and clear. I have experienced 20 horrific years of undeserved abuse in different forms, all were intentional and targeted at me, so none were provoked or justifiable. I think this is semantic for many of you, and that its so personal for some that they can't detach emotionally to hear her point. So I will make it. I am not sure why I had to go through the series of unforgivable experiences that has changed my entire life moving forward, but what was unwavering in me is that I knew IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ME. THEY VICTIMIZED ME. And because I did not identify as a victim, I did not INTERNALIZE that this was somehow my fate. My response was and still is: HOW DARE THEY! I was furious then and furious now, and thats how it has played out in my obsession for justice or accountability, but my anger is my contempt for those who dared violate and deprive me of my dignity. Yes, I was victimized by these people. But, to identify as a victim is to take that on as your identity, and that refers to a really unhealthy mindset. I agree with her that to call people (or ourselves) by some quick label that starts with THE, as in: The victim, the homeless, the addict, the mentally ill) is demeaning and limits (orients) ones self to that thing, that box, that experience. It can be far more damaging to continue to identify people by these labels, and I am very conscious when I speak about myself or others to separate issues/events from the person. Hope that helps.

[@silencio1234]

This is a bad take. After years of not allowing myself to see how horrendous my trauma was, it was finally accepting that I had been victimized that helped me to start healing from it. If someone had said these words to me at that time it would have been horribly invalidating and would have driven me even more deeply into denial. Often we need to hear that we have been victimized to stop self-blaming and be able to see the trauma for what it really is.

[@PHanomaly]

But see, you used the word "victimized" meaning you understand someone did this to you, its not who you are.

[@jdlc903]

Thinking about this further ; understanding myself as victim of childhood sexual abuse has actually helped me reduce my toxic self destructive addictions ,and feel more grounded and makes it easier to understand the roots of certain psychosexual orientations ,and ultimately stop ruminating and let go and move on more/better.before hand i had all these psychosexual issues /addictions - compulsive, self destructive, life disabling,overwhelming ,despairing, but i barely understood myself as a victim of childhood sexual abuse and certainly didn't associate my abuser with harm. Understanding myself as a victim/identifing in victimhood has helped me feel less helpless. But i guess everyone's different

[@LePetitNuageGris]

I think (and I could be wrong, here) that what you’re talking about is knowing that you were a victim of those horrific things and how it would have affected your system has helped you to be compassionate or avoid situations and things that could be dangerous for you, which is excellent. That is not what Irene is referring to when she says “identifying as a victim”. It’s maybe a little difficult because in this video she doesn’t really clearly define what identifying as a victim is, so I think many, many people are mistakenly concluding that acknowledging that you were victimized/saying “I was a victim of sexual assault” is what’s being referred to as “identifying as a victim”. But if you listen very carefully to what she’s saying, that’s not the message she’s trying to get across. Quite simply, I think it’s more of a mindset thing. Like, if you were a victim of childhood sexual assault, as you were (and so was I), acknowledging you were victimized, or understanding that the experience had a traumatic effect on you is NOT the same as identifying as a victim. You’re still you; you just acknowledge you have these extra effects/baggage/experience. Whereas if you let that completely define your personality, for example using what you’ve been through as an excuse to engage in behaviour that’s harmful to yourself or others because that’s “just who I am. I can’t help it; I AM an assault victim”, then THAT would be identifying as a victim. It seems to all come down to the difference between those two phrases: “I am” versus “I was”. If you were, of course there are effects, but you’ve accepted what happened and are actively going to try to live your life regardless, do what you can for yourself, treat yourself with compassion but try your best to show up for yourself and others, etc. But if you ARE an assault survivor, it becomes something that is still happening and has a hold on you to the point where it’s not just the effects; people who identify as a victim tend to not hold themselves accountable for things like healing or not hurting others in return because they’re too busy thinking how unfair the stuff that happened was and why me (which are perfectly legitimate thoughts to have; no shade to any of that. But I guess the point is there comes a time when you grieve and accept that even though it was horrendous and shouldn’t have happened, it did, and how can you move on and keep living your life? What do you need to heal? That sort of mentality). I believe the type of person who thinks like a victim is not interested in healing because they’re too busy thinking how that shouldn’t have happened to them in the first place and how unfair it was (which, again, perfectly legitimate; but that’s ALL they focus on, and they NEVER move past it, hence why they don’t heal. You become the thing that happened to you forever, instead of being who you are and that some horrible stuff happened to also happen to you. YOU are not it; you are YOU). I don’t know if I’m explaining this well enough, but I’m doing my best.😅 It’s a concept that I understand more on an intuitive level, or might be more easily explained/readily accepted when speaking about a physical disability versus a trauma. It makes sense… like many have said, many have been denied even the right to be acknowledged as having been victimized in the first place, so it makes sense there are a lot of tender feelings about it. But I think the people who are still upset after this video haven’t really fully grasped what she’s talking about, since they continue to say they should have the right to acknowledge what happened to them, but that’s not what she’s speaking against, here, and she says as much. Anyhoo, my point here was just in regard to you saying “I guess everyone’s different”. But since what you described that helped you didn’t seem to actually fit what she meant by “identifying as a victim” (it actually seemed to fit more with the healthier mindset she was trying to highlight), then it’s not “identifying as a victim” that really helped you, so her point still stands.

[@nicholamotley1330]

Thank you Irene for saying that. How I can feel The grief, accept the symptoms that result from the lack in my childhood, journal about all that… feel tenderness and care for little me… AND recognise more and more the potency and potential of who is here today! I think this seeing is a timing thing. My sense is, having full compassion for myself, allowing myself to feel like a victim (because a big story of my childhood was how privileged I was) has had to come before holding my head up and feeling beyond that..

[@sharonfuszard8861]

Hi Irene. Really appreciate your point about the difference between having been victimized and persistently identifying as being 'A victim.' What I discovered for myself is that healing can be derailed when those closest to you minimize what happened to you, which then can cause you in turn to minimize your own experiences instead of having self-compassion. In situations like these, a person is likely to try and soldier on instead of getting the help they need to address the trauma. This is not healthy and leads to all kinds of problems both emotional and physical.

[@racheldavies1175]

This information has the potential to be empowering to those stuck in the victim mindset if they choose to see it. Thank you Irene❤

[@CreaticityIsLife]

Not a fan of this perspective. Using other people as examples like this is not inspirational. First, these are not your stories to use as "teaching examples". Second, healing is not a competitive sport. It is about coming to terms with yourself and your circumstances and developing the skills to move yourself forward in ways that matter to you. That requires feeling your authentic feelings, not trying to make them be "better" or "more spiritual". It also requires allowing other people to hold full accountability for their own behavior. Equating the trauma that comes from being violently abused to that of a car accident might make sense from a neurological standpoint, but these are very different healing roads. Only one involves being deliberately targeted by a person who explicitly intends to exploit your human vulnerability and cause you severe harm. Sometimes that comes with being subject to levels of coercion and control that are very difficult to escape and the typical feelings that result are often very intense. Shaming people for "getting stuck in victim mode" isn't compassionate or healing. We all have different paths. and healing is not a one-size-fits-all process. This sounds like burnout to me - it's hard to stay present with people who are going through intense trauma responses, but it's ultimately not the other's job to ease your discomfort.

[@PHanomaly]

You don't fully appreciate the lesson she is conveying. And that's because of how it was posted, I think. She probably could have framed it with more context. Actually, she probably should have, given the audience of people who have been painfully victimized,, and are dealing with the lifelong damage of trauma and abuse. I think we should accept this was not her finest statement, and move on. My guess is that at some point in life people will understand what she was talking about, probably in a different presentation or context in life.

[@juneelle370]

Yes, it’s about identifying the injury so you can heal it but it is not “you”, who you are or what you deserve, no matter the kind of wound. Language/linguistics of a language itself can limit us and limiting us and our lives and even how others/culture sees us. The language itself doesn’t differentiate between people who experience wounds and who they “are”. This not only limits the person who experienced the wound and their healing, the language also leads to the mocking/minimization/blaming of “victims” and their injuries or “victims” using their experience to victimize others through entitlement or lack of healing through denial (not wanting to “be” a victim) and so ignoring the necessity of healing the wound 🌼 we’ve got to create cleaner/clarifying language around people who’ve been wounded

[@healingartsmassage7463]

Great words to share! One of my therapists said once, and I have told many people this, we go from victim to survivor to thriver. I am a thriver now but that took a while for me to arrive at that place and sometimes I still can waver back into one of those other categories but I don’t stay there long! I had an appointment with an orthopedic physician recently and spoke of my injuries over my life time, and he looked at me and said you are a Warrior. I nearly burst out into tears, here was a person that I had known for all of 30 min and after hearing only part of my story, he recognized some thing that my family will never acknowledge, but that’s OK I’m moving on to healthier people and places and not staying put within my family confines. Thank you for sharing your expertise and your knowledge. I am all about this work, and I have been working on myself for the last 35 years little bits at a time. We were not created to deal with hard trauma in one big blow, our nervous system cannot handle it. Thank you again, Irene. ❤☯️

[@penelopeperez5349]

Amazing video ! Such an important distinction and moment in the healing journey when we realize that we are not what happened to us. Just as we are not what we do, we are much more than that, and THIS is what allows us to heal and keep evolving as humans (or as spiritual beings having this amazing human experience 🥰). Thank you Irene and team !❤️

[@AmandaMG6]

The change for me began when I decided I wasn't going to be my story any longer. I do understand everyone's comments though too Not to be crass but to take care of an abused dog, you don't want to dote and fawn over them when they're having a fear response. You'll never get them habituated to pulling out of it that way. You want to lead them out with positivity and leaving the abuse behind

[@ayesha8809]

Saying to someone who already doesn't feel supported, that they're identifying as the victim, which may be true, is not the way to bring them into health. People need to feel supported, truly supported that someone has their back and is in their corner for a person to start getting a sense of their own strength. I'm sure you mean well but there are better ways to say the same thing to not activate someone.

[@katydid594]

She knows and teaches that a dysregulated person needs to be around healthy, regulated people in order to feel safe, stabilize, and heal.

[@annedrewandrew]

I think I actually need help identifying as a victim. When you're enabled somehow to finally feel and grow in compassion for yourself after hating yourself for so long and being numb and you begin to grieve your own death, is that not "identifying as a victim," where you deeply, deeply realize that, yes, something awful really happened when I should have been protected or at the very least attended to after the fact, but not even that? Maybe it is just an unnecessary choice of words. It is confusing. I'm not supposed to identify as a victim, and yet if I _was_ in fact a victim, how am I supposed to not identify as a victim? Literally speaking, it's inescapable. I'm supposed to forget, is what you're saying. Leave it behind. Don't heal. That's how I would tend to interpret it, even though I know that's not what you mean. But that's already what I was told to do. So that's what I hear. That's the problem. Some people have to become deeply aware first, and be encouraged to by the right people and at the right time (at least I assume), that they really were a victim of something terrible, BECAUSE they were brutally beaten, physically or not, into NEVER doing that very thing. NEVER. "YOU are the reason I'm doing this! It's YOUR fault!" The child there doesn't identify as a victim. They identify as the wrongdoer. They are no victim. They are utterly guilty and at fault for what has happened. Maybe this is a case by case thing. I don't know. Not identifying as a victim is sort of my problem. By identifying as a victim, at least in the right way, I reclaim my innocence!

[@agreeablegraylife]

Wow! Thank you for this comment. It has added clarity to my own healing journey, and why I struggle to accept myself so dang much over the littlest of imperfections!

[@NathaliePlass]

Well said! Acknowledging that we have been victimised is just one step on the way towards healing. After that, it is about us finding the agency to process the pain that came with whatever happened to us. But for that we need the willingness to let go of that pain & I think that's where many people fall prey to our human tendency to kind of get comfortable in our own misery. I just signed up for SBSM, can't wait to dive in! Thank you for your work!

[@iamthecosmos3301]

agree. I for one am well aware that I tend to get attached to my own pain, or like you say 'get comfortable in our own misery'. philosopher voltaire said the the bravest thing a man can do every day is choosing to feel happy. so this is not as easy as it might seem from the outside, or from the perspective of a (relatively) trauma-free person = some people can manage easily, others just can't.

[@ayesha8809]

The reason people identify as the victim is because they've never felt the level of support they needed to not feel like a victim. I would bet the guantanamo prisoner had people in his corner who loved him. How are you guys seriously not seeing just the absolute level of neglect and lack of love people are subject to??

[@nnylasoR]

This was so, SO good. ……WOW…… I’m going to go watch your “No such thing as little ‘T’ “ video now… oh, my, goodness. 😳😭

[@barrycrowder]

It is hard to hear the message that we are responsible for our own recovery when there is a part of us that still needs to be heard, or to have our pain acknowledged. When we have these needs, the message put forward in this video can sound invalidating rather than empowering. I'm not questioning the intent of the message at all, just acknowledging that there might be some more fundamental work for some of us to do before we're able to even consider this message. Finding a treatment modality that can meet you in that place could be a place to start. Internal Family Systems, Inner Child work, Reparenting, Adult Child (e.g. ACA) come to mind. I am sure that there are others. Trauma wounds need more than enlightenment to heal.

[@kimberlytrent5245]

Very well said❤

[@8MC8342]

I remember when I read the post a couple of months ago, a part of me felt a little uncomfortable but I also felt there was a lot of truth in it. As a family scapegoat survivor (during my childhood and adulthood) the psycho-emotional abuse was so insidious, and even intermittent, that I only started seeing it for what it was, in my 40's. There are a lot of happy memories and good times that made all of it very difficult to reconcile and the language for these things was just not there when I was growing up. It's only been in the last several years that I have been able to understand and label it. When my psyche was finally able to see and accept it all, I was full of rage at the people who had abused me and even at myself for not figuring it out sooner. Of course, under all of the rage was a tremendous amount of excruciating and complex pain. Virtually all of the abuse I endured was "invisible" so the pain and anger I felt was the only validation and "proof" I had. I did not disclose this to anyone but, as a way to prove to myself that I wasn't crazy and that my experience was real, I clung on to the pain and anger. I was desperate to heal and, somehow, move on with my life but that hurt part of me was terrified that if I healed, I would be betraying myself and invalidating all the trauma I had experienced. It was an overwhelming push and pull and sometimes still is. But as more time goes by, I know and feel that I deserve to be happy and healthy and I finally recognize that this will never happen as long as I stay steeped in the pain. Having said that, it is a definitely a process and everyone's journey is unique and has its own timeline. And I recognize some people never get to this place and that's where free will comes in. I never wanted to be seen as a victim, I only wanted validation, compassion and understanding. Eventually, I realized that I had to be the one to do these things for myself. I also knew I had to empower myself to be my own healer. I've barely scratched the surface of your SBSM course but it, and some other things, are helping me do that. I still have moments when the past consumes me but I allow myself to feel what I am feeling and honour it, knowing it will pass. I know that I am still going through the grieving process but I am doing everything I can to work on my healing and move forward, also as a way to honour myself. I am really grateful that you did this video because, although I can see both sides, I think it deserved to be addressed with more context, especially considering your audience. I think you made a lot of helpful and great points in this video! I also think it speaks to your compassion and willingness to listen to your followers instead of ignoring or glossing over it. And, for what it is worth, I definitely do not think you are crazy🥰

[@annabmoya6678]

Thank you Irene. This video was fantastic. There is a big difference between being a victim and identifying as one. The one says and aknwowledges that something horrible happened and the other is still living it. I have a feeling reading through the comment section that a lot of people are still living it and therefore don't understand yet what the difference is and get triggered. I hope everyone will.

[@Maria-fm2cg]

I agree 🙏🏼

[@swaaze1]

❤

[@baroquefiddle4790]

I love this and agree with you, I've been through a few major health crises and today I was at the hospital having a heart monitor fitted as I have a heart injury from the covid vaccine. I have full acceptance of where I'm at and I had a terrible childhood with every kind of abuse possible, I did the work and it took a long time but was so so worth it. The nurse asked me how am I and I said, I'm alive and and thats all that matters. I have plenty to be grateful for and I can still enjoy life fully ❤

[@lihtan]

Our words have power. They're capable of changing the reality around us. I'm especially mindful when describing the trauma of the past, to not phrase things in a way that might obstruct my healing and evolution. The other thing I'm mindful of when telling my story isn't to just trauma dump, but contextualize it with successes I've had, or my current progress in my healing journey, so that it can serve as a source of inspiration.

[@annacahill5394]

I really appreciated this video. Thanks for sharing the experiences that you have shared with other people throughout your career. I love hearing from knowledgeable people.

[@annedrewandrew]

I don't know if this will add any insight but I think maybe there are different kinds of identifying as a victim. It can be necessary to identify as a victim in a certain sense, as in my case I think it is, because...not only was I not allowed or encouraged to be aware that I was being abused and horrifically mistreated and neglected, not only was there no one to be with me and show compassion, but my mom in particular very intently, even if unconsciously to an extent, from before I can remember surgically instilled the responsibility for it in me, because she can't tolerate it. She has to be innocent. Only she is allowed to be the victim ever. Can you be abused if you deserve it? I couldn't locate or "identify" her as being abusive. (This is a very strange reality.) So it's difficult, immensely difficult, to now properly identify myself as having ever been a victim. Rather, all _I_ know is, deep down...I'm a worthless piece of shit who truly only deserves to be shot in the head. That's it. I'm not anything more than that. It was all perfectly fine. _I_ am all that has ever been wrong. I think being stuck in that, which I am and want to come out of, is different than identifying as a victim and yet it may be what you're talking about. And I recognize more the necessity of _not_ identifying with those lies. For me, at least, I think I've possibly identified, or rather misidentified, _as the perpetrator_ , as I kind of alluded to. I've had life without parole in an invisible prison for someone else's crimes. _Not as a victim._ My mom, my murderer, outwardly the sweetest, most harmless little lamb, mercilessly sentenced me. I was a perpetrator by being born, by existing, by not being whatever she wanted me to be. Years and years of no attunement, as you mentioned, and years of hateful, murderous denial to boot, as well as her "generously" giving me plenty of gifts and saying "I love you" with a forced, unreal, unseeing smile.

[@louisa_m]

Thank you so much for sharing this! Your words have clarified a lot for me. I think what people often misidentify as "victim mentality" is our tendency to be extremely self-disparaging, as well as the despair and exhaustion we experience when all our efforts to heal seem to bear no results. It’s one thing to wallow in self-pity and never try to heal; it’s another thing to have tried virtually everything within our reach, yet remain stuck in survival mode, say, because of factors we have no control over. Having at least one very supportive, trustworthy and loving person at our side can make a world of difference for our healing, yet few of us have lucked out in that way. There are so many external factors that either facilitate or hinder our healing, and when those factors aren’t conducive to our recovery, all our efforts to heal may prove ineffective. And then it’s extremely difficult not to give in to despair. Yet as soon as we do, we’re accused of identifying as victims-by people who don’t have the slightest idea how hard we’ve been trying to heal.

[@swaaze1]

Thank you Irene 💜 a few of hours ago I asked spirit the question why I kept getting signs that I hadn't let go of the past even though I exited what was imo an unhealthy situation for me some time ago. Your video popped up and I think I was ready to hear this now, thank you so much 💜 grateful and wish you a beautiful day!

[@user-it5im7dy8f]

Ok, I'm going to watch this one again. Before I do, I'd like to say congratulations to those who've made it into SBSM this season. In one of my manic, last minute ditch efforts to get registered... well. Good Orderly Direction, my gut or viscera is continuing to instruct me to titrate, while building capacity. Keep it simple! Thank you for your portion of my miracle.

[@SA10008]

Hello Irene. Thanks for posting your videos. While I totally agree that traumatic experiences are common, my own *true healing journey could only begin later in life, after the abusers died. My life experiences were evaluated by a specialist, once a week, for 12 weeks… and then put on a scale of 1 -10 for an ACE score (Adverse Childhood Experiences) I learned that my ACE score is high, at 9+, and because of this, I will have different needs / requirements in my recovery, as compared to someone who has had traumatic experiences and has been evaluated with a low ACE score. I definitely don’t think of myself as special, but I do find it discouraging to compare people’s experiences. It’s invalidating for any survivor and compounds trust issues. You will lose people if you cannot accept that everyone has different needs based on their own experience. I have noticed this viewpoint… “everyone has trauma”… “there’s nothing special about it”…. this viewpoint sounds privileged…and it is so much more common now… you say that your mentor agrees with you as if you need back up to make your viewpoint valid… AND I wonder if you realize at 2:54…. the arrogant laughing undertone whilst you explain the final edge of your concept… even repeating the point, as if there is no room for error? Any thoughts?

[@ShelbyArtist]

This is a great topic. You are so amazing. Keep up the good work!

[@arniegregersen5105]

really like the "speak into presence" point. Resonated with me, if i am able to bring the silent witness to bare, there is real power behind intention and without care there is no attachment. This is where presence of heart connects to your current world. Sorry for being so outspoken, not used to being triggered.

[@arniegregersen5105]

"without care to outcome"- non attachment

[@Maria-fm2cg]

In my opinion I feel your recent post is true. This video explains very well the difference between being identified as a victim vs acknowledging and validating oneself that they did experience being a victim in their past. In my personal experience letting go of the blame loop 🔁 and reclaiming my power has made a significant shift in my life. By connecting to Source, earth & nature, and having patience, compassion, consistent nervous system regulation practice, doing gradual deep emotional healing to process past traumas AND drawing healthy boundaries - healing has been possible.🙏🏼 I’m rarely triggered these days.💚 Thank you for all your fantastic resources you share Irene. Btw I bought the 21 day tune up 2 years ago.😊

[@kentonbolte931]

Thank you for this distinction. I learned the Karpman Drama Triangle as part of my therapy process and found it very useful in working through some of my issues. (My father was a Senior Medic (Navy) in the Pacific during WWII and had PTSD though no one told him). I sorted out that on the Triangle each position/role is very much the same in terms of the dynamics of that game. The insights you shared here help my see a way to step off the victim positions.

[@ayesha8809]

Irene...cmon...you have to know that saying "there is nothing special about acknowledging having lived and survived through trauma" to someone who never has had their trauma acknowledged in the first place is only gonna dysregulate and emotionally hurt them further. How can you possibly not know this? If you could say this with a straight face, in person, to a rape or molestation or war survivor, or simply, a child, I'll believe you.

[@kimberlytrent5245]

Irene... I keep trying to follow your content, because your content is very useful. But your arrogance absolutely turns me off. your arrogance causes your content to get completely lost , for me anyway. Not referring to this video in particular. Its every video you produce. I just don't understand . is it your personality? Evidently, you don't realize how you come off. I can tell you it turns a lot of people with trauma off😢 a little humility ... Now, THAT is humanity , Irene.

[@Nonybusinessxxxxxx]

you sound like youre in victim mode. I get it, youre angry... I had an abusive alcoholic father, struggling and living through communism. past is in the past. hold on to being that victim from the past, or acknowledge it happened but that's not you anymore unless you dont want to let it go. It was you, you lived it, its done. live in the now.. Are you being victimized now? today? if not, then youre not a victim, you WERE a victim.

[@kimberlytrent5245]

@@Nonybusinessxxxxxx aahhh ... Good old gaslighting.. sounds like you're in bicksm mode lol

[@HEATHERMAEE55]

This video you are absolutely right. Being victimized and identifying as a victim are very different. Validating someones pain helps start the healing process but then its up to them to choose which side of the coin they will lay. Staying in a victim mentality u relive the trauma over and over even tho its not physically happening your brain doesnt know the difference, you have to take responsibility for your own healing. Awesome video. Thank you

[@PHanomaly]

In the same vein, its why I never believed in the 12 step practice at every meeting where anything you say is prefaced with: Hi, Im Jane and Im an alcoholic/addict/hoarder/ *sex/food/etc addict. It DOES psychologically pidgeonhole your thoughts about WHO you are. Its not healthy, and will prevent you from moving beyond that to some degree.

[@PHanomaly]

If your reaction to what you have been through is: HOW DARE THEY!! You are not likely to be identifying as a victim. Thats a good thing, because it means you know your worth, and you know that its about THEIR deficiencies that they would treat anyone the way they treated you.

[@k.silberberg5137]

Really eye-opening. Thank you.

[@red9729]

I think maybe the hair trigger is for those of us who were gaslighted...any suggestion we are the problem "the victim" etc . Also not all trauma's are equal actually. How much support emotionally did the person have going through any of it....

[@Zlata1Z]

What determines if a person's WILL HEAL? What part of being is making a choice? How heal-ability can be increased?

[@saraelina1]

I have been a victim, but not anymore. It is my choice as adult. Offcourse I need to want it very much and do years of work for it. I think our minds are a big lier and it is very important not to believe everything what mind says. But I understand victim role. It is much more difficult take responsibilty of ones own life. But truly, this is compicated and a difficult journey. Thank you Irene. If I ever get possibility to acces your smsb, I do it.

[@TejubescDM]

Some ppl don't have trauma. If everybody went through trauma we would be more empathetic for each other. Most adults had bad experiences but not everybody nervous system responds with trauma. For me, seeing group of teens gives trauma flashbacks bc I was isolated and bullied at school. Most people don't have the same reaction. Most ppl lost a pet, but not for everyone it was traumatic. Sensitive ppl gonna be more affected by everything around them. Just see, if everyone was struggling with trauma in daily life, mental health videos would have millions views but they don't. And some ppl diminish importance of mental health, bc they don't identity as person with trauma. They could have bad experiences, but it doesn't affect their daily life. It's not to say we should identify as victims, but we can't ignore some had it more tough than others.

[@AmandaHugandKiss411]

So basically Irene is stating on How you should speak to prove you are willing to heal....not sure how I feel about her interpretation. I have been through a number of tramuas childhood and adult. And I have been gaslighted by family for even mentioning any thing. I never directly blamed family who did various things as even in my teens I recognized that they too had their own issues. I felt as I still today, that I am in control of my own healing and have find appropriate counseling etc along the way. I went to a pain management clinic who did a 3 hr assessment, the intake doctor who wasn't a Physiologist or even a therapist, after the question portion began to tell me I was a victim and that I had fibromialgia because of my childhood trauma. They had a number of services, that would be free of charge. It was an all or nothing sign up. At that specifical time, i was doing EMDR with my Physiologist. This intake doctor said I must commit to group therapy for childhood trauma. I explained that I had already dealt with those issues years ago. But every appointment which was still part of the intake process, she literally would randomly bring up Specific events from my childhood and when I would say look, if those issues I hadn't worked through, I wouldn't have coped with certain situations in the manner in which I did. But she would just kept bring up different traumatic events and stating, it did effect you ,the Fact You Don't Realize You A Victim, tells me you haven't dealt with these issues. This was very frustrating because no matter how I stated that reopening healed wounds especially when I was right in the process of doing EMDR with a Physiologist, seemed to me to potentially have negative consequences. Long store short, I didn't enroll and walked away. But I realized that after multiple times of her picking and picking, those wounds were a gapping hole. And know I have to stop my current treatment plan and redo all this work on past healed tramua. This may sound like I am making a case for the damaging ideas Irene has on the subject, but I am not. I am saying, for a clinician to state on how you Should word your tramua and How You Should Word the word Victim, whether see recognizes it or not, is a for a gaslighting. People are all at different stages of healing when they seek help. There isn't NOR There Should Be a Specific Acceptable Manner You Word The Words Victim and Tramua, to somehow Prove You Are a Good Candidate for Healing is BS. "A Good Candidate " aka a well behaviored pat on the head Candidate for therapy and healing. No! Absolutely do not by into this BS. Your job as a patient isn't to appease or prove yourself to your therapist. And their job isn't to pscho analysis your wordings. This is a sign of a problematic therapist. Look up videos on what to look out for in regards of warning signs that you have a problematic therapist/counselor/ physiologist. This is one of the flags, they impose their views on how you should speak and identify YOURSELF TO THEM. Your journey should not be about the semantics of how you speak. You should be in a safe enough environment to speak freely and how you feel and see yourself, and not have that becone a measuring stick of if you'll one day heal. Healing from trauma is a process. There are those individuals who don't identify as a victim and those who have been gaslighted and continuing to be harmed to actually reach a place where they can even say out loud, I was or am a victim of such-and-such. In time, as you heal, you will come to a place of healing where you will nolonger feel victimized. It takes time, different people go through the steps differently. Irene should know this. And once you have gone from choppy ocean waters, to calm seas and then eventually reaching the shore. You may need to rest a bit. But then you will be able to stand up and say "I survived". With most people having to do a hell of a lot of work. And Irene, it is a big deal!!! Because what Irene is failing to even acknowledge that sadly many people do not survive. I dare say: the Amount of Mental Gymnastics that Irene had to do to explain that she was right, says an awful lot about her. Maybe, just Maybe, Irene still cannot say that you aren't a victim because she hasn't really addressed that deep down, she too was a victim and can't deal with that.

[@jbdsvld8175]

Great video once again. Much wisdom. :-)

[@zainabamadahy9918]

Well said. I defined myself as a childhood sex assault victim for too long. So done with it.

[@johnjohnstone9805]

Do you have an opinion on persistent invalidation from others makes me feel like a victim. Am trying to find another way to think about it that doesn't make me feel like a victim. Is not easy as it seems to be going on forever. The invisible one.

[@saalexmarinkovic4948]

BRAVOOOOOOO IRENE, THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU SO SO SO MUCH

[@ayesha8809]

Wow at 19:26 you really struggle with saying the word "victim". You don't believe people can be victims. Which is ok and i actually can understand that because that would bring about a level of personal and social responsibility that very very very few people are capable of in this world.

[@crazykatrockchickhippie4835]

Love this and completely get it, thank you🙏🤗

[@jdlc903]

" nothing special about it " Ok ,trauma is part of life , but we need permission slips to have compassion for ourselves if we are living with dysregulated nervous systems. In my case i cant work ,sexual dysfunction

[@thenicolemartinez]

I’ve heard Irene recommend self compassion many times. In my opinion it’s built directly into her two programs. (I’ve been through both) And I’d even say that she teaches one to have self compassion.

[@Tammy8823]

@@thenicolemartinezI’m considering SBSM, but it’s a hefty price tag. In your opinion, was it a worthwhile investment? Have you noticed any shifts, improvements, etc?

[@thenicolemartinez]

@@Tammy8823 Yes, I consider the investment absolutely worthwhile. I am about to begin my third round of SBSM, this week, with the full curriculum, support, live teachings and Q&A's just as if it were my first time! I get more out of the program each time. As far as shifts / improvements I have noticed many. Depression has lifted, I have more energy for life, I have hope for the future again, I handle everyday stressors much much better (when in the past id been known to blow a gasket over almost nothing!) and I've been able to start working out again.

[@AmandaHugandKiss411]

There's a much better video on this topic that highlights the issues people who are not happy with Irene's statements and mindset on this topic. It is from: Patrick Teaham LICSW Called: Are You Just Being the Victim? Dismantling the Victim Mindset. Take Care

[@Neighbourhood5555555]

Hi Irene, I have just come across your videos and I am absolutely amazed at all the information and knowledge you provide- I do feel a bit overwhelmed with the amount of knowledge available and have no idea where to start with your videos ... I would love to do the SBSM program but just cannot financially afford it. For someone on their healing journey that has stumbled across your channel- where would your recommend to start- where to focus on to commence this journey..?

[@IreneLyon]

@Neighbourhood5555555 - There are some good basics in the Healing Trauma video series: irenelyon.com/healing-trauma-training-2022 There's also a page for people new to Irene's work: irenelyon.com/new-here/ -Mara with Team Lyon

[@rosathomas3574]

Interesting comment about the use of language, this is a big topic of conversation in the disability world. In the UK, where I live, the disability rights movement preferred “I am disabled” over “I have a disability”, but for similar reasons to Irene preferring the opposite. They argued that people are dis-abled by society, whether through the built environment, prejudice, social norms, lack of social welfare etc. Sure, people have impairments, but with adaptations they can live a full life. It places the ‘problem’ of disability outside the individual, onto society, and thus is very empowering. I’m a bit sceptical of this social model, but that’s what I mean when I say that I’m disabled. I appreciate this video and it has given me much food for thought.

[@BelovedShift]

Perfect ❤ I did this with being extremely abused at the hands of my parents, Didn’t understand till now, why I had no safety in my nervous system I found what worked for me I chose to leave at age 45, lol 😢and not lol… I still do you 21 days work as needed plus I hired my greatest team as I healed Someday I’d like to do you SBSM for added support

[@IreneLyon]

@ConsciousMourning, Jen here from Irene's Team. It's great to hear that Irene's teaching and your team has supported you in healing. Hope to see you in SBSM one day! Feel free to pop into the 21 Day Tune Up anytime you want to go through it again too.

[@user-lh6ig4wj4v]

I think I got the point. As a result of a traumatic event, a person is dysregulated and forms schemes, thanks to which they try to adapt to the world. These schemes are slightly distorted from a point of view of ordinary people. When a person perceives himself as a victim, they isolate this painful part from himself. So they refuse to use new methods of adaptation, what they learned for their own profit.They refuse to review that schemes and direct himself to desired direction. It is quite possible that the schemes will always be distorted, but the qualities that a person has acquired can still be used somewhere. But I also disagree with some points of the video. For example, that everyone had a trauma or that the person has no right to perceive himself as a victim. Because person perceives himself as a victim due to the fact that they do not receive necessary support and do not know how to get it. Realizing that you have suffered and that you will continue to suffer if you don't do anything is actually very important.

[@bethechangebath7663]

Thank you for clarify. Maybe the original post wasn’t as clear as it could have been and hence open to misunderstanding particularly by those of us with disregulated nervous systems.

[@barb32koep]

It's easy to get cozy & hold tight to... "victim's privilege," w/out realizing we're doing so it. 😕😠😤 I wasted decades blaming & demanding vindication,,,mad at God & everyone for not acknowledging how much I'd been wronged. Everyone else was living whilst i stayed still, in perpetual, increasing bitterness for such blatant disregard.

[@HEATHERMAEE55]

Irene your doing a great Job and so strong withstanding all this adversity and still having the heart to teach people to heal. They will thaank you later. I thank you now. Much love

[@lindsay5305]

There is a very big difference between identifying as a victim and playing the victim card. Narcissists use the latter.

[@jdlc903]

11.54 " this happened to me and now im working on my stuff" Yeah 🤷‍♂️ Thats fine , that how i see it.

[@chantellekaro4344]

I can't say I'm a survivor? Happy to call myself a victim

[@Medietos]

Question About putting ourselves in constant stress and threat every time we connect with abusive/unhealed parent(s) or sibling(s):Does it have to have this effect on us? According to Crappy Childhood fairy, it seems as though we can practise self-care in ways that soothes those activating stress-and threat-responses so that they gradually diminish and we don't react strongly anymore? Unless I missed some prerequisite for that, f ex having other supportive relationships, maybe therapist, physiotherapist and physician. I agree with her not wanting to cut the ties/contact, because behind and above the traumas, we belong together as a family and love each other.There is karma and fate to process and solve too, if we choose to this time.If I didn't have so many re-abusings from healthcare, psychiatry and social inSecurity with terrible re-traumatisation(s?), I'd mprobably have managed to better regulate or compensate and stabilize by now. What recurring feelings AND BODILY REACTIONS AND DURATION OF SYMPTOMS DO YOU CONSIDER BEING UNACCEPTABLE TO STAY IN RELATIONSHIPS WITH FAMILY, please? wHEN SHOULD ONE FINISH THE RELATIONS? i JUST mentioned to my big sister that I get stressed, fearful and threatened by her constant prejudices and claims about me and my life, which are wrong and which she has no ground for claiming , since she has never got to know me or engaged to know my ilnesses Aspergers, and biography and healthcare trauma ongoing situation. She answered: "You have already told me that" I: "But nothing has changed, it has continued, so I stay stressed, threatened and fearful". I am weakened and isolated, sitting in the air, home, honour, rights and money stolen without anybody actually helping me (just superficiall, unknowing little kindnesses, nice in the mi+oment but perpetuating my survival playacting freeze). I'd be very grateful for help, reso´ponse, and´swer.. All the best. :-)

[@tarakadir9259]

Thank you ❤😀

[@pamelaparrish7002]

What do we then make of 12-Step for Co-dependency (first step in coming to understanding of abuse, the only reality I had ever known/had no recognition of any other way to live/feel/be, like the example you gave of Max, who lives with CP)...i.e., "I am a Co-dependent"?)? This is a true question, not rhetorical. Honest. Also, "still living in the abusive situation" (got through the divorce, No Contact with former spouse, and both extended families, including my own, but then contracted Covid as an essential worker during Lockdown 2020--which corresponded with the divorce process, stymied by Covid closures, also keeping us trapped under same roof--but, now, 42 months after workplace collapse 5/30/2020, still locked in abusive relationship with employer (Amazon), not paying LTD, while 23 specialists diagnose permanently disabled due to PASC, Long Covid. Can't get out of this nightmare. I would chew my foot off if I could escape. How do I tease apart "being a victim" still, now...and something more empowered? I feel shame collapse for literally NOT being able to get away.

[@HEATHERMAEE55]

Yes i feel the little Ts are harder i agree.

[@ayesha8809]

Coregulation is a thing Irene, remember?

[@PaigeSquared]

So staying connected to a family of origin that gaslights, while still actively recovering and learning proper boundaries, is not a good idea, right?

[@fionnvance4798]

Is there a way of acknowledging that different traumas can also psychologically affect us differently? I am beginning to understand that your definition of trauma in how it affects the nervous system is not how trauma has traditionally been used. However I still think that psychologically there are some trauma’s that aren’t compatible, the mental ability to overcome them is different than stubbing your toe etc. is there a way to marry up the 2 that yes all trauma affects our nervous system, but psychologically how we mentally process them is different. Yes we need to process all the trauma from our nervous system by your definition, but some people maybe have the further mental obstacle of mentally Over coming traumas (or insert whichever word would work) that are just more difficult to process.

[@laurieroark2632]

Omg. Is that why I'm still sick?

[@Anna-Maria79]

So true ❤️

[@maya_unplugged]

Sadly this blurring view is very annoying… I couldn’t watch it, because it causes headache.

[@that1weirdkid27]

Man... I get that you're very educated on this topic, but this is a bad take and I understand why people are upset.

[@chelseabunker2391]

All humans experience trauma. It’s how we identify with it later on that makes the difference. It’s not to shame anyone. We are all doing the best we can. It just is what it is. She’s bringing light to a blind spot to many people for their healing journey. I’ve met many people that identify first as their trauma then second as their true self. That would be identifying as victim first negating the person as an individual rather than an event that happened.

[@healingartsmassage7463]

Keep doing the work & you’ll understand more completely one day hopefully!

[@KsuDC]

I think she almost got it. Almost. What’s different about those athletes who identify themselves as victims vs. the ones who don’t might just be the state and conditioning of their nervous system when the “big T” Trauma happened? If you grow up hating yourself hard from the years of “subtle” emotional abuse and then after 20, 30, 40 years of living that live in that emotional state and all that that entails you get a serious big T injury, can you see how one athlete who’s already spent decades hating themselves might take in that big T differently from someone else who was much less traumatized by their early life experience? There is no mysterious ingredient that separates one group from the other one; it’s their nervous system state and, hence, the support system or lack thereof, that the big T Trauma is landing on.

[@angelajane3913]

Prof Sam Vaknin talks a lot on this topic, backed up by academic research

[@johnjohnstone9805]

Also do you have an opinion on karmics who ostensibly there to teach us a lesson are mad and disappointed if you actually learn it and move on, that doesn't appear to add up in my mind, small as it may be. Nearly every tarot card reading lately is about upset karmics p*6% you actually learnt the lesson and they are no longer needed. Huge resistance to moving on to the next victim I mean "Student" P.S I'm not in a hurry for karmics to move on as much as i was as I'm finding this educational albeit a painful one.

[@melrose331]

Sometimes it helps to acknowledge and accept your feelings around the “karmic” person/dynamic/situation. And seeing and acknowledging a karmic” person/situation/cycle is the exciting first step in the right direction! What has worked for me in the past is sitting down and either journaling or just list every single feeling (negative and positive) that person/situation/dynamic creates within or around me. There will be some feeling(s) that are either “familiar” from your childhood that are in being recreated or acted-out now-in the present day, or some unmet need(s) that you didn’t receive as a child that the present day karmic situation is fulfilling. It requires you to be really honest with yourself and to fully focus on YOURSELF and YOUR FEELINGS-not the other person’s could’ve, should’ve would’ves. (Unless you redirect that focus on how it made YOU feel). Once those feelings or patterns are identified within you, then it’s just up to you to commit to creating situations or engaging with people that create different feelings/beliefs/patterns inside of you. Trust yourself to know that you DO possess all the tools within you to figure it out. And Remind yourself that you are WORTHY -AND READY-to experience something new and different-that creates positive, healthy, good feelings, and you’re also ready to be responsible for the energy that you bring to the mix that creates positive, healthy experiences with others. Have compassion for your mistakes and keep trying. Sending you light and positive energy in your journey. 💕

[@anneluciebrusadinsetrakian628]

I went through trauma with my daugther . I started setting boundaries when I started SBSM. It has been worst since then. It has been a roller coaster where I walk away when she doesn’t respect me. I know I hurt her.i didn’t have it in me when she was growing up.But it doesn’t justify her still resenting me, abusing me. I got that. I can only heal my self. Cannot help her. Not easy

[@AmandaHugandKiss411]

Interesting and poorly explained by Irene. FYI people do say: I am a diabetic I am hearing impaired etc. So one group can speak this way, but people who are victims are not able to say they are a victim. FYI: the word Victim has a legal meaning, there's a crime that has been inflected on someone. Honestly, the amount of mental gymnastics Irene is going through, to justify her words if not her ( false) beliefs on who will ultimately reach a level of healing, is very telling. Shaming is Shaming Irene, regardless of how you justify what you have come to believe. Maybe it is time to move on to a different profession. Or maybe Irene needed to do another video because she got triggered for being told by her audience they didn't approve of her thesis. 🤔

[@generalcontact1766]

So you are saying trauma that occurs IN UTERO is just as traumatic as "Capital T" trauma that occurs in real life and that is FALSE. You must have never been beaten, and good for you, but to say what you are saying IS INVALIDATING to people who have lived through very real traumatic experiences, not just made up or perceived trauma, and yes when there is a repeated physical threat to your life, it affects one in a way you obviously do not have much empathy for or understanding of. The path to healing might be similar for all kinds of trauma, but in utero trauma is not the same as lived experienced life threatening trauma. And yes, most people do have some kind of trauma, but certain kinds of trauma are FAR more traumatic than others. And by traumatic I mean they have a negative effect on your nervous system and ability to function. A rich spoiled privileged child might feel traumatized if they do not get what they want for example, and they might start self harming or something while having a tantrum, and that whole thing could be very truly traumatic, and yet, that is very different then being beaten by your primary caregivers regularly for your whole childhood for example. Or surviving serious violent situations where your life is at risk, such as rape and war, for you to think all traumas are the same, only means you lack empathy and understanding. Try to learn from the comments. Try to learn, because you are not, all knowing and neither was your teacher. Another thing for you to consider is not just that your "true" word trigger those who are unhealed for trauma, which is a super arrogant stance you hold, but that you indeed ARE WRONG, AND THAT YOU HAVE MORE TO LEARN ABOUT HOW TO HELP OTHERS ACTUALLY HEAL FROM TRAUMA. Your utter arrogance and lack of ability to see yourself, even with repeated comments asking for your to reflect, speaks of your own disorder and I hope you can heal.

[@Medietos]

Irene, could you mind the crucial words and pronounce them audibly and not swallow them, please? i ahve to relisten 10 times, put on that automatic texts, but still can't make ióut what youbare saying, and neither can the textmachine. Is it threat-resonse that gets activated, as I gather? Is itnreasonable to feel threatened by family as an adult? Is it not our own fault, who haven't learnt to self-regulate and heal yet? And what about myself, who have come to behave secondarya busive too, as reactions and overload-anxiety from theirs?We are all in it, and Mother gets triggered by my co-dependent care for her health and controlling her for not taking proper care of herself, which I am anxious and fearful about since decades and can't stop yet to compulsively want to help or get her help. She also despises me for not setting boundaries and letting her (mostly verbally-psychically)abuse me. I ended up shouting "idiot!" to my sitser, as she blamed the 12-step program for me not having healed. As if it were police, attorney, therapist, doctor, social security and helpingpeople with additional crazy abuse and trauma from au. Thorities.

[@gloriabarrett6476]

Maybe you’ve gone sane! 😮😊

[@amyjoyce712]

Isn’t accusing someone of “ playing the victim” exactly what abusers and people with no empathy do to perpetuate the abuse, negate and dismiss others’ feelings as being invalid? I seriously don’t get this whole “ don’t play the victim” thing… sounds to me like you’re advising someone to deny their valid feelings to try and vocalize and reach out to try and heal. When someone is traumatized I totally disagree with you that “ it isn’t special”… I’m sorry but that just sounds rude and dismissive and completely flippant to someone who might be trying to reach out for help because they’re going/ or have gone/ through hell. I think that possibly there are people that don’t try to heal or choose to not rise above their past but it’s the minority and not at all relevant to you making this blanket statement that “ everyone” having trauma had “ nothing special” happen to them! NO! As humans trauma is not “ normal” and “ everyday” and expected and therefore we should not tell others to not voice or be upset ! We should not make them feel like they are being a further burden by wanting to reach out to discuss, heal, and ask for support! You’re victim blaming that’s called homecoming trauma! How backwards can your logic be??? honestly as an extreme survivor and activist against my abusers woman who has survived from multiple traumas, I think saying someone is “ playing the victim” is not at all a blanket statement and it is insulting thousands by saying “ you’re circumstance isn’t special”!!! Excuse me? The hell I went through is ABSOLUTELY extraordinary to me.. and yes I choose to heal daily but you have no right to discount and dismiss and really negate all I went through you didn’t walk a mile in my shoes. This verbiage is totally inaccurate and you sound self righteous. Because someone sets boundaries when others dismiss their mistreatment doesn’t mean it’s them being triggered. Sometimes people are inconsiderate, insensitive and not helpful or understanding and we are rightfully setting boundaries by being angry and this terminology is flawed and deeply hurtful it’s not a blanket term to be throwing around. I couldn’t disagree with you more.

[@IreneLyon]

Hello @amyjoyce712, Sophia with Team Lyon here. Your feedback is valuable and has been fully received and registered, thank you for your share. Irene's intention in sharing this video was not to undermine the importance of a person's trauma, something that would be antithetical to Irene's entire body of work. The intention of her overarching message was to explain and point out the differences between being a victim and identifying as one. Here are some videos that might clarify this point further: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oqvIc5ljjdtmla8 and kzbin.info/www/bejne/gIq2kISGdpiBarM . Please feel free to reach out to our support inbox if you have any questions.