The difference between Taekwondo and Tang Soo Do

[@ScottJohnson-y6k]

When I studied Tang So Do, the instructors were bad asses. All of them were extremely fair and very nice folks. These guys came from Cali to Virginia and opened the first Chuck Norris Karate studios. I loved doing demos all around several cities. I was the dummy punching bag and boy did I keep my ass best. Those were the days

[@garycleveland6410]

I have found that early Tae Kwon Do is very similar to Tang Soo Do and Karate. Some of us still teach it as an art and not purely as a sport.

[@TheOctabreaker]

I've practiced Tang Soo Do most of my life, and he makes a good point. It's different school to school, federation/association from one to another. The TKD school in my hometown was more sporty and less close to TSD, but I've competed with people who's tkd is much more similar and traditional, and almost basically TSD with differences in forms. I was in the world moo duk kwan tang soo do federation when I was younger (not a thing anymore) and I'm currently in the world tang soo do association, and I prefer this association for many reasons, especially prices. the wmdktsdf was expensive and testing was outrageously expensive and there were too many inconsistencies.

[@KenMikaze]

Well, it started with Moo Duk Kwan's Hwang Kee, while he originally joined the 5 kwans to form KTA(Korean Taekwondo Association), using his MDK Tang Soo Do, he quit the organization and continued the separate art. While there are conflicting stories about which organization started Tang Soo Do, the other faction, Chung Do Kwan was fully integrated with KTA, the Moo Duk Kwan branch became more well known world-wide, due to Chuck Norris's contribution. As there were other splinters of Tang Soo Do (Karate-based), Hwang Kee decided to add Subak, another ancient Korean Martial Arts, along with Northern Chinese elements, he decided to name his art, Soo Bakh Do. Meanwhile, Hwang Kee's students, Kim Young-taek, Hong Chong-soo, and Lee Kang-ik, wanted to remain with Kukkiwon or then KTA, hence retaining the membership of Moo Duk Kwan Taekwondo in the organization. Together with Chung Do Kwan, MDK-TKD defined some of the techniques in modern Kukkiwon TKD, hence, unofficially, TKD is the direct descendant of TSD. Unofficially, because Kukkiwon is a bit hush about it, and wants to retain TKD as the official Korean Martial Art that is recognized by the state of South Korea.

[@barrettokarate]

Got to correct you on one thing, the Japanese didn't introduce karate to Korea. The Koreans themselves introduced it. Many Koreans (if you had the financial means) most notably Won Kuk Lee (the founder of Tang Soo Do) lived in Japan to attend high school and university. Lee had studied shotokan under Gichin Funakoshi himself and his son, Gigo. Lee wasn't the only Korean to study shotokan (or shudokan which would be known as Kong Soo Do) in Japan and return to open a school, but he was the first to coin the term. As for anyone who wants to argue that Kee Hwang founded Tang Soo Do. Hwang opened his school after Lee and called his style Hwa Soo Do for the first several years. Hwang's training (who in my opinion) always seemed a bit sketchy claimed that he initially learned Taekkyeon (and "mastered" it) by secretly watching a master off in the distance who refused to teach him. Here's my thing, during the Japanese occupation the practice of Korean martial arts was banned. It was a criminal offense. Why would someone risk being caught training where he could be seen? Second, he claims that when he was in Machuria he secretly (pretty convenient) with a Chinese master whom no one has any way of verifying. Learning some of the kata from a book he found I can believe. Funakoshi did publish his first book in the 1920s. Lee stated in an interview that Hwang had been a student of his briefly. Of course Hwang denied it. Here's the kicker...although Lee's Chung Do Kwan would be a major player in the founding of taekwondo, some CDK schools still teach the old Japanese forms. The Moo Duk Kwan versions of the shotokan forms are virtually the same as the CDK ones. Kicks added in the exact same spots, hand techniques switched for different ones, etc. Is the Moo Duk Kwan branch of Tang Soo Do 100% the same as Lee's? No, I'm sure Hwang made his changes to make it his own. But if you look at some of that 1950s footage floating around it looks a lot like old school shotokan more than a predominantly Chinese based one. Can Hwang truly be considered the founder of Tang Soo Do when there was clearly someone else long before him using it? Hell no. Do we owe him a debt of gratitude for keeping Tang Soo Do? Hell yes.

[@ChungsMartialArts]

Well said.

[@captainbeaver_man903]

Im glad you brought up Hwang Kee. Everything about the man seems so suspect when you look at it with even a little bit of scruteny. Seems like he made a lot of stuff up just because he knew it would be hard to impossible to prove or disprove after the japanese occupation. Won Kuk Lee, if Im not mistaken, disputed Hwang Kee's claims.

[@tm114paul]

Regarding to your comment, I think there's no actual founder in case of TangSooDo. However, there're only "Lee Won Kuk" and "Hwang Kee" were mentioned but Hwang Kee's TSD is a bit futher as offshoot of Traditional TSD from Lee Won Kuk's. Eventhough Hwang Kee has been incooperated with Muyedobotongji's Knowledge as "Soo Bak Do" but still known as TSD anyway. PS, Lee Won Kuk retired from teaching sometime at 1950s. So then Hwang Kee has become the main part of TSD history after that (include other seniors of TSD).

[@davidjacobs8744]

That's interesting. When I studied Tang Soo Do in the 1980s, the student manual credited Grandmaster Hwang Kee as the founder of Tang Soo Do. I still occasionally train with my original teacher, Do Sah Nim Darryl Khalid Sr., and you have provided me with something to ask him about. Kamsa hum ni da.

[@ninjamania]

@@davidjacobs8744 sooooo what did your master say about this?

[@otisbeck5327]

Tang Soo Do, Shotokan and Shorin Ryu all have a common ancestor in Shuri-Te. Tang Soo Do is the Korean transliteration of Okinawan Karate's former name To-te which means "China Hand."

[@tm114paul]

Some of opinions said that TangSooDo is more like Karate with Soft-Power Flowing (or technics from KungFu) & add up Kicking style.

[@otisbeck5327]

@@tm114paul in respect to being Chinese influenced, Tang Soo Do takes elements from Northern and Southern styles. Okinawan Karate itself is mainly Southern Chinese Boxing (Fujian White Crane Style).

[@tm114paul]

@@otisbeck5327 Yes, I knew that point. Gojuryu mainly on Fujian White Crane & Some Nampai Chuan (Gojuryu featuring on circling hand). Meanwhile Shorinryu (also Tomari-te) mainly on Shaolin Style which featuring on straight punch & speed. I can't figure it out about the other chinese elements in TSD but Breathing & Flowing.

[@tm114paul]

@Rob-lw1uw Yes, Master Hwang Kee's Tai Ji Quan is Yang Style.

[@darrelmorgan1509]

I trained MOO DUK KWAN ..I’m so glad you made this video really opens up and explains things as to why they are why they are …. Even though I have taekwondo tattooed down my shoulder I still consider myself Korean karate

[@PartTimeJedi]

19 years training in old-school MooDukKwan TKD which from what I can see is 90%the same as TangSooDo.We do all the same kicks, style of sparring, same forms- Gitchu/Pyeong-ahn/ Basssai/Nianchi etc,, even the same uniforms lol

[@shawnpaulzuccarellorizzo]

Taekwondo is simply a political organization. It was a way to unify all the 5 (9) kwans. Tang Soo Do is from the Moo Duk Kwan. It is the so-called precursor to Soo Bahk Do, which is the same darn thing. There are Moo Duk Kwan TSD, TWD, and SBD organizations simultaneously. Most of the 9 Kwans' styles were only slightly different, and they modified to form TKD....but not all.. Basically....TSD and TKD are the same thing exactly. I studied under Sok Ho Kang and he calls it karate most of the time. lol We trained traditionally, but also sport style. After all, Kang was head of the Olympic committee. He kinda had to teach both The real kicker. Even if you train traditionally, the hyung get distorted quite quickly from teacher to student. You can have one teacher with six students, then in the end...you'll end up with 6 masters with completely different hyung due to personal faulty mechanics.

[@tm114paul]

Do you think TKD look like simplifed style of TSD at some point???

[@SaxyLament]

Wait. Grandmaster Kang calls it karate? That was like a dirty word where I trained. lol But I won't go into that in public. I do remember seeing "Korean Karate" on a sign at his school in So Chas. I hated sparring in general (I was more interested in the artistic aspect if you can believe it) but I abhorred Olympic style.

[@shawnpaulzuccarellorizzo]

@@SaxyLament Yup...he always called it Karate in person. lol. I trained under him from 1993-2004 just right before the inclusion of the Olympic sparring. I hated that because of the pads and whatnot. I preferred the traditional knocking the crap out of each other as hard as we could. I got my second and third degree black belts and then basically became an unpaid employee at one of his branch schools (Ripley) under C. O. Raines. You know....calling it training, but actually milking my time and using me as free labor. All the while, mind you, while charging me a fee. .We broke with Kang and joined a different organization with different forms (WTF patterns) It burned me out on Martial Arts. I cannot even remember the name of the Grandmaster with whom we affiliated because it was soooo long ago. Ahhh...memories. lol Haven't thought about it much in 20 years....and I certainly don't miss it. lol

[@SaxyLament]

@@shawnpaulzuccarellorizzo I trained at one of Kang's branches. I kind of remember Raines and that he died a long time ago. I didn't mind helping but I didn't like being expected to teach. I was a black belt, yes, but I was still a kid. I miss it sometimes and still dream about. However I got deathly ill last year and my balance is garbage so trying to train would be laughable.

[@ismartforlife]

Awesome video! Thanks for educating me this morning :)

[@williamharmon2158]

Yes, thank you, some tsd kicks are applied differently and with more power.

[@charlessmoot6904]

I thought you did an excellent job of explaining the etymology and meaning of the name Tang Soo Do. Many people do not make the connection that it is simply the translation of the word karate in it’s original form. It simply means way of the China hand. Well done!

[@nealteitelbaum8660]

This was interesting. I studied TSD for 7 years then moved to TKD (mixed with Hapkido) for another 6 years and other than a few minor differences I would not be able to tell someone how they differ. Hapkido has very obvious differences but it was very easy to transition from TSD to TKD. Thanks for the info!

[@yoloswaggins5385]

Isnt hapkido like the korean version of judo? Or am i way off? Can you explain hapkido since you actually trained in it? I dont know too many that have or know of it.

[@nealteitelbaum8660]

@@yoloswaggins5385 You are not off. HKD comes from Aiki jiu jitsu, judo, TSD and TKD, and a couple of other Japanese and Chinese styles that I forget. That is why it has similar techniques to Aikido and fits well with a TKD school. From what I understand there is no central organization for Hapkido so it is taught differently and has branched out to different versions since its creation in the 1900s. My teacher liked to say it was a Korean version of Aikido with TKD, jiujitsu and judo. If I had to explain it I'd say it is like TKD or TSD but with an emphasis on joint locks, pressure points, submissions, and focuses on using an opponents momentum against them to gain control of the situation without having to knock the guy out. Very helpful to certain people like cops and bouncers because they can control the opponent and decide whether to inflict a mild amount of pain for compliance or a severe amount of pain if necessary. I have found it to be most effective of the 3 styles I studied.

[@lewisb85]

@@nealteitelbaum8660 I found with newer hapkido and I say this as someone who trains at a Korean martial arts centre( teaches tsd, TKD and hapkido) in London as well as a local MMA gym there has been more of a recent influence of BJJ on some hapkido practitioners, to be honest if it makes the art more practical I love it.

[@tm114paul]

@@nealteitelbaum8660 Agreed, Both of them have derived from the same root Art which is "Daitouryu Aiki Jujutsu" (Found : Takeda Sokaku) Aikidou is focusing on Self-defense & deep Philosophy Concept meanwhile HKD is focusing on more offensive movement with mixing styles (close to MMA but not quite).

[@KenMikaze]

@@nealteitelbaum8660 TSD and TKD are based off from Shotokan, Subak, and Taekyon.

[@jameskrten1164]

In Korea both north and south, Taekwondo training is mandatory for the military and many law enforcement agencies. That says a lot about how effective it is for self defense and unarmed combat. Any solid practioner will be able to hold their own against an opponent on the street or battlefield regardless if that opponent is trained in martial arts or not.

[@gordonames1892]

BELIEVE TAEKWONDO WAS THE INVENTION BY A GENERAL CHOI FOR MILITARY APPLICATION

[@RosieandFriends1]

I practiced tsd for 4 years in college. My teacher explained tae Kwon do and straighter angles with everything and tsd has both. It was a long time ago though 😅 I wish I could start again.

[@Man.of.Tomorrow]

What's stopping you from starting again bro? You only got one life to live, don't waste it by wishing but wanting and doing 👍

[@RosieandFriends1]

@@Man.of.Tomorrow There is no place to take it where I live anymore.

[@tm114paul]

@@RosieandFriends1 Don't give up bro. I'm also the one who abandoned TKD for 24years and made up my mind to back for training. Then pursuing the 1st dan before step up higher or to the other arts.

[@wulver810]

Cobra Kai teaches Tang Soo Do.

[@PpAirO5]

I like Tang soo do better than Taekwondo.

[@allenschneider1847]

I'm curious as to if you teach any difference between the TSD vs TKD kicks, especially the side kick? Or are the kicks all the same?

[@spyrotechgames7027]

I'm a green belt in Tang Soo Do. I bought a martial arts book called "American Tang Soo Do Hyungs: A Guide to Black Belt." It is a very good book to buy if you are looking to learn each form step-by-step. That is the book I recommend to everyone.

[@jonathanmitchell9886]

I took both taekwondo (moo duk kwan) and tang soo do lessons as a kid, and even then was struck by the fact that the basic movements and forms were virtually identical. This was right around the time that the new taegeuk forms were being introduced, and I don't know if that had any effect on what we were taught.

[@captainbeaver_man903]

My dojang also teaches both TKD and TSD. The biggest difference Ive seen is politics. Its maddening.

[@jameskrten1164]

Both Tang Soo Do and Taekwondo are great for self defense. I've practiced Tang Soo Do for about a decade total and was a Cho Dan before leaving my Dojang in 2012. I just joined a WT Taekwondo Dojang in my hometown and very much enjoy the training. It's important for a Taekwondo teacher to emphasize both the self defense and sport aspects of the art. Because it is really both a traditional martial art and a sport. The same goes for any other martial art that's considered a sport like Judo and now even Japanese Karate.

[@hollinarvaez4677]

James, can you help me? My 10 year old has been practicing Tang So Do for the passed 3 years (high green belt) mixed with Hapkido. We moved across country from CT to FL and the nearest studio is 45 minutes away. We joined and she loves it but the drive and 3-hour commitment with driving and classes 3 times a week is killing us both. Which style of Tae Kwon Do would you recommend switching to for the easiest transition?World style or ITF?

[@KenMikaze]

@@hollinarvaez4677 I'm not James, but IMHO, WT is easier to transition from TSD than ITF, the current ITF forms and stances deviated from the traditional TKD with their addition of the Sine Wave application.

[@ridgerover8347]

Don't worry about style. There are vastly more important things to consider. Look at the big picture.@@hollinarvaez4677

[@TheRogueMonk]

dude you look like the karate kid! i had to write it i hope you dont dislike it! you should have been playing remake of karate kid!

[@raygsbrelcik5578]

Myself, I definitely prefer more FREEDOM in the expression of the Fighting Arts! I do not live by all the "Traditional Stiffness." I remain Pliable, and Fluid. My movements flow Smoothly, Swiftly, and Power- fully----Instinctually! It truly IS a feeling of....FREEDOM! Amen.

[@jasonroberts8206]

Thank you. This has helped me make my decision.

[@williamharmon2158]

Tang soo do means Way of the china hand during the Tang Dynasty. Monks practicing tang soo do were enlisted in the army and fought with great success

[@SDongil]

The forms question is an interesting one. I started learning Korean martial art in 1971, in a small town south of Gwangju called Hwasun (I was a Peace Corps volunteer). That gym called the art moodukwan and sometimes TKD, although the latter was clearly political as an earlier poster stated. We learned the first couple of the Taeguek forms, but primary emphasis was on the Pal-gueh forms. Those did get shuffled around in 1972 - all of the instructors went up to Seoul for retraining, and when they came back we relearned Pal-gueh 8 as Pal-gueh 6, Pal-gueh 6 (which starts with the scissors block) as 4, and so on. Later, in the 80s, I studied with Master Roh in Minneapolis, whose father, a man from Kaesong just across the border with northern Korea, also studied with Funakoshi. His style, called Songmoogwan, included not only Taeguek, and Pal-gueh for the colored belts, but a third set called Chungbong (kzbin.info/www/bejne/gaOnfYSpZsR4ZtE) that are a lot of fun.

[@tm114paul]

I saw it, that's somewhat more practical and pace of breath more like TSD core. In my opinion, Palgwae form is visible on Karate Trace. There're some opinions pick me interest, 1) My KwanJangNim said Palgwae is less efficiency than Taegeuk. meanwhile 2) My junior's KwanJangNim said Kukkiwon created Taegeuk to avoid the conflict of Palgwae (from 9Kwans) and made it more standardise.

[@PartTimeJedi]

19 years training in old-school MooDukKwan TKD which from what I can see is 90%the same as TangSooDo.We do all the same kicks, style of sparring, same forms- Gitchu/Pyeong-ahn/ Basssai/Nianchi etc,, even the same uniforms lol

[@nathandoggett6287]

This is great video, very nice presentation.

[@mastertorryn5397]

Is different versions of taekwondo and hopkido So yeah there's lots of different styles and also they're very similar to each other each of those smart parts that I just mentioned.

[@stevenmolden2517]

another great KZbin video. but you forgot the photo of ed sell in front of the Tae Soo So sign.

[@michaeljung4398]

Tkd has many different forms other than Taeguek. Before Taeguek, Pal-gueh forms were taught and still being taught. And black belt forms.. for WT TKD. ITF has its own set of forms. So, does ATA. Other minor styles must has their own forms. Another thing I like to mention is that "T'ang" doesn't necessarily mean China that commonly known to us. T'ang disappeared over 1200 years ago. There is no clear connection between T'ang and Okinawa. Instead of T'ang it could be either Ching or Ming.

[@tm114paul]

The word "Toudi" used two chinese character which are 唐手 (meaning is Tang's hand / Tang has other meaning revelant to Ancient China or Tang Dynasty). Funagoshi Gishin (Founder of Shotokan Karate) learnt Toudi and back to mainland (Tokyo) to introduced Toudi. In order to avoid everything involved with China, He had to change the art name from Toudi 唐手 to Karate 空手. PS. "Tang" Character can spell as Kara which also match with Kara 空 (meaning "Empty") also. PS2 Karate's Kata still visible in Chang'Hon (ITF) Teul as Maestro Manuel Adrogue gives the explaination on clip with Passai Kata Sample. kzbin.info/www/bejne/e6SsoWmBZ6qph7s >>> this clip

[@dan9002]

Nice overview of martial arts

[@AnthonyRiddle]

The school I go to teaches both Taekwondo and Tang Soo Do also. We're also able to compete in open martial arts tournaments and closed Taekwondo tournaments too. We also have separate Judo and Jiujitsu classes by a jiujitsu black belt and a judo coral belt. Its all the traditional styles too, not MMA.

[@maximumjesus]

Okay, so what is the difference between TKD and TSD in your school? I don't mean the difference in the history, but how are the actual classes different. I've been taking TSD for 2 years but I've never taken TKD. DO you learn any of the cool fancy kicks in your TSD class? Kicks like tornado kick and jumping spinning hook kick? MY TSD school mainly only practices the more basic kicks and things that are more practical in sparring, but I want to learn the flashy stuff. I don't care if it's not practical, those flashy kicks look cool and impress chicks.

[@mastertorryn5397]

I practice both styles of WT style forms pagwee and taagulk. So I learned both's WT styles. I also know the ITF forms also. Is so I know all 3 main styles of taekwondo.

[@tm114paul]

Does that mean you're practising both of Kukkiwon(WT) and Chang'Hon(ITF)???

[@maximumjesus]

Through out my years of doing martial arts (Kosho Ryu, Capoeira, Jeet Kun do and Muay Thai) I always looked at TKD and TSD and wondered what the difference was. So I decided to join a TSD school and give it a shot. Well it's been over years now and I still have no idea what the difference is between TSD and TKD. I get asked that question every time I tell someone that I do TSD. I've seen the TKD matches and it looks pretty much like the same thing we do in TSD. I guess it's just the forms that are different. We don't use the chest guard when we spar. I'm not sure if that's a TSD thing of if that's just my school.

[@jodytavalieri60]

Thx Man! That was great.

[@ChungsMartialArts]

I’m glad you enjoyed it!

[@tm114paul]

I have no idea about which style is more practical. Aside from my training in Kukkiwon(WT), I agreed that Chang'Hon(ITF) is more practical though. Also someone gave me an opinion that Kukkiwon style looks like took out most part of TangSooDo and rearrange & branding as nowadays not like ITF which unique in Sine-Wave & more practical in hand technics.

[@AllyCMa]

Like Baseball and Softball?

[@patrickhock1207]

Karate originated in the island of Okinawa with the influence of Chinese Gong Fu which, in turn had been influenced by ancient Indian martial arts. Hence, Karate is indirectly related to India. Karate is a striking based martial art, which includes punches, blocks, kicks and open hand strikes.

[@Supermomo2007]

there is no proof that kung fu has relationship with indian martial arts. only claims

[@christianmorera4127]

Right, I think it was white Crane kung fu

[@denismorgan9742]

Taek comes from the Korean triangle that the Chinese children use to establish as a footwork game. The Tang as in Tang Soo Do comes from the Tang Dynasty in China. However Taekwondo had been established along time before it became a sport as with most martial arts. Just because Taekwondo and Karate came from the same ancestry does not make these the same, two main different types of Karate types arrived at the same time for obvious reasons one the imperial version where most Karate types and Tang soo do and Taekwondo, the other was Shaolin monks the imperials rivals with Quan Fa where Kempo/Kenpo originated from.

[@chrisjoy439]

You forgot the ATA style called songham taekwondo

[@zpomper8]

Taekwondo je nastao sredinom 20 stoljeća,kada je jedan Korejski general spajao tehnike iz izvornih Korejskih borilačkih vještina : Tang Soo Do,Taeykon,Hapkido itd. Tang Soo Do=Karate Do Shotaokan Ryu( Korea-Japan/OKINAWA)...

[@jamesadrian7717]

ITF Taekwondo is original Taekwondo, WT Taekwondo is not Taekwondo, they are Tang Soo Do new version..

[@leeblaylock4376]

Yes sir, what I was tought, jokingly, was that Tia Kwon Do is what you'd buy a ticket to watch in Korea, and Tang Soo Do is what you'd get your but kicked with outside the stadium.

[@Jasonseay52]

Hey teach I think you may be dealing with KZbin unsubbing folks.

[@brunofernandez3117]

We do ITF. General Choi founded the system correct?

[@alta-i9u]

tang soo do = way of chinese hand.

[@errolthomas9426]

Chuck Norris is a black belt in Tang Soo Do

[@amk8411]

So many -lies- myths from Asia!

[@76kamikazi]

when you get into a real fight they all look the same period.Real fighting is based on distance and timing.Distance is always changing and if you’re not proficient in said distance with your limb that is closest to the target you will miss your opportunity to score.Peoples who adhere to so called styles who say we do this or dont do that,will be in for a rude awakening when they find themselves out of their comfort zone in a fight.Have you not learned anything from MMA.

[@ChungsMartialArts]

Are you a bot?

[@inthekitchenwithcheflionel307]

What if I told you there is no such thing as styles? A punch is a punch and a kick is a kick.

[@amk8411]

_What if you told me there is no such thing as gender?_ _A mouth is a mouth..._ I'd be walking away from you at an accelerated pace hoping I wouldn't have to go Winnie Mandela on your ass!

[@dtester]

Bruce Lee quote! I think you are trying to reference Bruce Lee advocating to not be bound to any one style. But there are styles, dude.

[@dududu5189]

Well if you told me there is no such thing as _gender_ I would run, not walk...

[@WingDiamond]

Sifu John Lambert said the same thing.

[@danielfalconett7174]

Tkdo exhibition Martial art, tsdo military Martial art.

[@muffineck9890]

Way of the Chinese hand......denied

[@funkman0811]

ANDTHE HIGHEST RANKING BLUEBELT, ENCOMPOSING THE. SKÝ . ALSO TSD HAS A HIGHER GATE