The Diggers' Dismay: Austen Mk I SMG

[@justinrobert2770]

"The Austen stock is much more complicated to produce." Yes but the sten stock is made entirely of sharp edges and sadness.

[@AM-hf9kk]

I thought the "die casting expertise... or rather experience" would result in more than ONE PIECE being cast. How hard would it be to cast a simple one-piece stock?

[@alganhar1]

@@AM-hf9kk Very, in fact I would got as far as to say trying to cast one piece stock would be an exercise in stupidity, especially in the 40's. Casting is great for large pieces like armour plate, say the transmission cover, front glacis plate and turret pieces of the M4 Sherman, but for small, complex pieces with lots of tubes and bends like a stock? You are throwing good money after bad. The only way you are going to get good reliable complex castings like a stock is probably the lost wax casting method, and that is a method of production more suitable to artists or jewellers (my casting experience comes from the latter), not mass manufacture of 'cheap' SMG's. This is before you consider that after casting you then have to 'finish' the cast, so remove sprue etc, and then you have to machine in various parts of that stock. The ones that spring to mind are the catch system to attach stock to the receiver (has moving parts, they need to be manufactured and fit seperately), and machining out the wells for the screwdriver and cleaning rod as you are NOT going to try casting a hollow tube! Believe me, it would be much easier and a LOT cheaper simply stamping or pressing the various parts and welding them together. Casting had its place in the weapons of the 1940's, but SMG stocks was not that place!

[@AM-hf9kk]

@@alganhar1 I agree that this catastrophe would be a bitch to cast. But the cheap simple version wouldn't have any of the odd features. It could be a single part with two flats and a hole to pivot on a bolt in a simple bracket, allowing it fold fold beside the action instead of around the mag and grip. Outside of the pivot area the sprue wouldn't matter at all and there would be no finishing work. It might run slightly heavier and uglier, but who cares? It's designed to be a quick, cheap, disposable weapon in desperate times.

[@alganhar1]

@@AM-hf9kk Maybe, but you are still better off just stamping or pressing tubular steel, it is faster, cheaper, and uses less material than casting. The only way you are going to get an effective cast is to move to a flat casting rather than a cylinder design, sort of like an I beam type arrangement. Even so, for this type of thing stamping/pressing is simply more efficient. Casting takes time, you have to regulate the pour, you have to ensure there is no bubble formation (which will seriously weaken if not outright ruin the cast), and you have to wait for it to cool. Then of course you have to clean it up. With pressed/stamped pieces you can make those pieces far, far faster, and simply weld them together. Clean up is as simple as sanding or grinding down the sharp edges and you are good to go. As I said, casting did and does have its place, but there are reasons it is generally not a method used in the mass production of metal items, especially small ones. Stamping and pressing are simply cheaper, faster and usually use less material.

[@francesconicoletti2547]

alganhar1 you’re assuming there was a high throughput stamping press available in wartime Australia to make SMGs. Australia didn’t have a car industry until after the war. We were eating up industrial resources by doing things like trying to turn out our own fighters from modifying Trainer designs. Just sticking a wooden stock on the thing would probably have matched our available technology better.

[@gergokerekes4550]

How many smgs do we have? Three sir! Three what? hundred? thousand? No sir , only three one in a museum one in private ownership and another was confiscated by the authorities at the port. Some guys must have had pretty strong headaches for a while.

[@KuraIthys]

Well, I mean, what do you really expect for a country that doesn't have an extensive history of private gun ownership, AND up to WW2 has literally never actually had to defend itself from well... Anything? I mean, pretty much every battle Australians have ever been in has been on foreign soil, and more often than not for the sake of defending an ally, not ourselves...

[@gergokerekes4550]

@@KuraIthys Yeah smg and rifle bullets do not do much aganist spiders or snakes so i understand that you needed none of them. joking aside you got a pretty gun up in a rather quick time with the owen.

[@gergokerekes4550]

@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine yeah i saw that "tank" that they had made as a stop gap mesure it looks fun like the ones i drew when i was a kid. But if you have jack shit and the enemy is at the porch you toss the shit in his face , it might work or slow him down.

[@gergokerekes4550]

@Billy sorry i was thinking about the bob semple but i now look it up and it was new zealand design

[@thesturm8686]

@Billy i mean, you probably could penetrate japanese tanks with machineguns and their asian wide conscripts aint gonna do much either

[@okaro6595]

When he said they had three SMGs, I first thought they had three types in service.

[@Dreska_]

well, technically we did!

[@liddz434]

Lol, yeah, me too! Didn’t realise he meant literally!🤣😭😱

[@curiousrelic]

Same here

[@Dreska_]

@@Galf506 public service!

[@arachnonixon]

reminds me of Flight of the Concords, when Murphy remarks that "well, we've got the one gun, but the army's using that".

[@yasingulec8558]

That putting "Austen" in quotes is still something they do today, the Steyr AUG is designated the F88 "Austeyr"

[@staryoshi06]

pretty sure we use the F90 now though

[@edwalmsley1401]

The mk 2 austen looks like a 1990's tippman paintball gun

[@bensevrywere]

98 custom*

[@esrvdb88]

@@bensevrywere The earlier ones were just marked "Tippmann 98" the 98 customs came a bit later with some revisions, kinda a 98A1

[@edwalmsley1401]

@@esrvdb88 that what I have,98 custom,been gathering dust for almost 20 years 😂😂

[@JunkyardBashSteve]

God forbid someone rigs a large optic on to it, then it'd just look like the paintball hopper xD

[@ExplosiveWeaponForum]

look at a tippmann SMG 60 i have one shooting on my channel it looks like a sten with a cast recevier

[@callsignbard6655]

Took me a minute to realize that it stood for Australian Sten and wasn't just named after some dude named Austin.

[@vaclav_fejt]

Jane Austen - Pride and Extreme Prejudice.

[@chriscone2684]

Ian self corrects from “Mel-born” to “Mel-burn”... good on ya mate

[@aussiebloke609]

I prefer to describe the pronunciation as "Mel-b'n"...but yeah, that was a good effort from GJ. :-)

[@70zenboy]

Was waiting for melbs. 😂

[@darwinchevalier]

@@70zenboy good effort and good info on the Austen..

[@TonkarzOfSolSystem]

It's pronounced "Mel-bourne". The r is hidden in the Australia accent which puts r's everywhere.

[@SaulKopfenjager]

@@TonkarzOfSolSystem It's the "O" that is hidden, which the Aussie accent puts everywhere mate-i-o

[@leighneil]

As someone that has an Austen Mk 1 I have to agree with everything you said about it with the exception of two points. 1. The length of pull is actually ok...unless you are a hobbit. 2. It is a much better weapon than the Sten. Over engineered...yes. Not as suited to mass production as the authorities had hoped (which goes hand in hand with over engineered)...yes. Totally and unequivocally outclassed in every way by the Owen...yes. But still better than the Sten.

[@lazzie7495]

I mean, the sten wasn't supposed to be a good gun. It was supposed to be a gun that you could shove into every grubby hand as quickly as possible. Subtracting from the latter element means your just making a worse 1918.

[@Jungleshoes]

Oh my god the fading cut at 5:40 is perfect. The Sten turns into a ghost and disappears.

[@markfryer9880]

Thanks for covering this Aussie weapon Ian. As a former member of the Australian Army Reserve (89-91, 92-94) I had heard of the Owen Gun but I had no idea about the Austin. Incidentally, my first unit was a Regular Sigs Unit with Ares cell, and we had SLRs, F-1s, and 7.62 mm rebarreled Brens as our light support weapon.

[@elmoreoocyte]

They didn't think they were improving the gun, they thought they'd found a way to make it more complex to make more money.

[@mattmcguire1577]

For those that missed it or are unaware at 4.30 between the H and the K is the broad arrow. This is shows both government approval and use. It was painted on eg trucks stamped on metal parts e.g. buckles or stenciled on cloth items e.g. ammo pouches.

[@johnnixon4085]

Sounds like the Aussies did as good of a job on the Sten as Homer Simpson did on the Everyman car.

[@matthewtscott1]

Another fine example of Australian armchair logistics, typically when Australia's ordinance Corp get hold of new equipment they will engineer the F out of it before distribution. Then after issuing they continue modifications throughout it's service life often to the point that it is nothing like the initial product. Another fine example is the Browning 50 caliber machine gun, it was in service up until 1995 when Browning finally told the Australian government that they could no longer use the Browning name as it no longer resembled the guns standard specifications. You should do an episode on the Australian development chain, it would be very amusing 👍

[@lanceluthor6660]

It's so frustrating. I would love to have been in a position to fix a couple problems with the sten! I would have made proper grips like the Austen ,gave it a double stack double feed mag and if possible a wood stock in line with the barrel. I would keep the sights dirt simple but big with a rear ghost ring no adjustments to the rear and an Enfield front. The rear could just be a piece of bent sheet metal with a hole.

[@howtoscience9093]

Austen was made for high humidty wet environments..hence the lack of vision holes and encased spring..tools were added because easy refit was not concidered an option.

[@vimtheprotogen2855]

I’m 4 mins in and just realized it’s the Australian sten... Austen

[@jacobhayes9992]

Just wait until you hear about our standard service rifle. The Austeyr, Australian Steryr.

[@realhorrorshow8547]

The manufacturers here seem a prime example of: "You do what you do best, not what's best to do."

[@charlesadams1721]

In fairness to the firearms designers of the Austen and all the comparative complexity of the improvements and the additional features, the threat to Australia was largely several thousand miles away and the Japanese had also enraged a considerably larger nation than Australia. While the Brits, the designers and producers of the Sten were possibly routinely being bombed and the dreaded implacable "Hun" (early in the war, I believe they were still being called Huns, before the preferred descriptive transitioned to "Gerrie") was literally 35 miles across the Channel. Additionally, Great Britain has always been a country that restricted the private ownership of firearms of any type, except to the elites and landowners. They never had the widespread sense of an armed citizenry. So the production of an arm, virtually ANY workable arm, was greatly needed for many purposes in the British Isles. Afterall. the British government was producing films showing the Home Guard, the last line of defense being armed with pitchforks against invasion by a armed force that had defeated supposedly the two best armies in the world. The Australians on other hand were still largely a frontier nations with less regulation on arms to the citizenry. Also, remember this was before Nicole Kidman and Hugh had even been shot at by Japanese soldiers. So, the average designer and or producer or worker, while being aware of the threat, would be able to return home after a day of work or go to the beach, ie live life largely, normally. So, those extraneous improvements, additions would not be perceived as anything other than appropriate enhancements to a rather crude design.

[@aussiebloke609]

I suspect the screwdriver and cleaning rod were included because of the climate. Until then, we had always fought to help allies in Europe, so it really wasn't much of an issue. But considering that the top half of Australia is tropical, and much of it is jungle and rainforest, I suspect rust could be a larger than usual problem, so frequent cleaning and oiling becomes more important. A cheap weapon is all well and good - but if you're on an extended patrol in the jungle during the wet season, they really don't have a good way to get you a replacement weapon quickly.

[@Erden99]

The faint irony of adding parts to a Sten to try and improve it hangs over this episode... the whole point of the thing was to be as simple as possible. "Improving" it would involve making its existing parts better, not adding more guff to it.

[@djackmanson]

"Is three a lot?" "It depends on the context"

[@keeperofthecheese]

The sten was a decent enough gun for improvising circumstances. The brits had to make a lot of hard wearing, super cheap automatic weapons really quickly. The gun had to be able to dismantle for partisan use, and use available ammunition (including that stolen from the enemy). In this regard it was spot on. Was it comfortable to fire? No. Was it accurate? Not particularly. But it did work and you could stamp on it repeatedly without breaking it.

[@herknorth8691]

If it weren't for "Jane's", I wouldn't know that guns like the Austen exist. If it weren't for Forgotten Weapons, I wouldn't know anything about them except *that* they exist.

[@ronschramm9163]

There is a reason the STEN is known as "the plumber's nughtmare."

[@grendelgrendelsson5493]

The need for a large number of submachine guns with limited development time quickly lead to the Sten and the Austen. The Reising had more development time yet was awful when the USMC had to use it in combat. The Germans had some of the finest firearms ever made yet when a large number of submachine guns were needed in 1945 they developed the MP 3008. Desperate times lead to desperate measures and these weapons may not measure up to current expectations but I still wouldn't want to be standing in front of any one of them when someone pulls the trigger.

[@thesturm8686]

I wouldn't even want to stand in front of a Liberator if someone is to pull the trigger, as awful as they may be, they'll kill alright

[@matthewkeith8605]

Imagine if a Sten were really well made and quality. It's kind of like a sten from an alternate history or some thing.

[@kurtmueller2089]

German word of the day: "Verschlimmbessern" (verb) the act of trying to improve something (Verbessern) but ending up making it worse (Verschlimmern)

[@maxpotter6181]

It was ten minutes into the video before I realized the pun of the Australian designers had with "AU-Sten." >.

[@Lazyguy22]

Don't forget the special version that had the firing rate increased - the Austen Allegro!

[@artemis_smith]

This seems less like a WWII SMG and more like a pre-WWII SMG. All sorts of bells n whistles vs the normal WWII philosophy of "oh dang we need guns right now right now right now we need a million SMGs yesterday!"

[@artemis_smith]

Like, Sten? Ugly but makes bullets go out the barrel. Good enough. PPSh? Made out of random bits of metal but it makes nazis die so good enough. Grease Gun? Literally just a tube, but now you's killin. Owen? Barrel towards the Emperor's finest and hey what do you know he died for his emperor. But this thing? It smokes pipe tobacco, wears a monocle, has a posh accent and gets offended at the idea of being used as a weapon. "Why would I ever allow bullets to travel through my barrel? That's something the commoners do. I'd much rather continue to admire my own beautiful folding stock, yes."

[@wazzo8527]

"I dont know if expertise is the right term" 4:05 roasted

[@leapoffaith20]

So the Aussies took a Stem and made it *even shittier*. Well done Straya, well done.

[@ben501st]

I'm not proud of how long it took me to figure out where the name Austen came from.

[@CypherC300]

I got served an add before this video. That's weird for Forgotten Weapons.

[@captainsleeman9787]

Ahh Australian military design. The Austen, the Wirraway and Boomerang aircraft, the Sentinel tank, and God help us, the Collins class submarine being replaced by the French fiasco that we will never be able to afford, coming too late and running on diesel that will be unprocurable. Oi Oi Oi

[@sanguci2952]

It do look kinda cool doe

[@enysuntra1347]

Ian, the STEn may be IN EUROPE better than the AuSTEn. I see however some catches. If your environment is prone to dirt like a desert or a djungle, witness holes may jam your magazine. If you can easily die-cast components but are new to (ie, higher tolerances) stamp, it may be sensible to use a well-fitting collar rather than stamping that can f... up whole batches. Also, the second you go into close quarters, the easiest welded stock may be "catchy" without a metal saw. Yes, inexperience surely plagued the AuSTEn "imworsenments". Still, 2nd story for stocks is NS "3rd Empire" retained folding stocks in the simplified MP40, while GB's STEn successors all had folding stocks. And while the AR15 became a standard model for weapons now, most new developments - HK G36, Steyr Armee Universal Gewehr (AUG), FN - chose the AR18 with foldable stock as pattern for the "back parts". So I tend to also include operational experience into some mods.

[@somethingelse4878]

As I kid in 70s britain I remember seeing the stem gun in dr who and thinking how cool, how space age it looked How wrong I was Tom baker I think it was

[@Seb-Storm]

Techincally the austen is indeed and improved sten however that doesn't means is cheap lol. As for reliability I don't know how the austen does I can't speak on that topic but it looks cool and more ergonomic though

[@johnmorgan1629]

Wouldn't surprise me if it's that bad, the home guard preferred broom handles, not Mauser broom handles, just broom handles to handle any problems they had.

[@Nihtgenga1990]

At first I thought it was named after its developer, or maybe the town it was made in. But no, it's an Austen as in an AU(stralian) Sten...

[@THEfamouspolka]

More isn't better, better is better. R. Desautels

[@26Rudders]

Ok the weapon was over complicated and expensive to make but was it actually a good weapon ie reliable, easy to carry and could hit the mark? From this video it actually looked better than the Sten but was obviously more complicated to produce. That is the message I took from this vid.

[@fenderfetish]

I bought an Austen foregrip at Aussie Disposals when I was 11. I still have it.

[@joelginbey3481]

Finally a good ol aussie gun

[@1Wilful]

Nice job correcting your pronunciation of Melbourne, Ian! Got it right second go.

[@RodrigoFernandez-td9uk]

I always wondered what happens when a Sten and a MP38 have a baby

[@nicholasfitzsimmons7311]

To be honest it kinda looks better than a sten mk2! But the sten mk5 is far better as well as the owen.

[@Gruvy]

So really the austin only got a bad rep because it was more expensive to produce. It looks like it would handle better than a sten not to mention it can be fired by left handed people aswell. Wasnt the sten made from exhaust pipes (aka tail pipe)?

[@thesturm8686]

Au : so we take your crappy last ditch gun and make it more complex for improvements? UK : cool, what does it have? Au : grips UK : nice, what else? Au : what? UK : what?

[@allangibson2408]

The Austen doesn’t jam solid when full of mud.

[@thesturm8686]

@@allangibson2408 now i want to see that on InRange

[@arcantos9103]

4:02 I just noticed how the whole grip for the Sten is just a piece of sheet metal with a big hole in it lmao what

[@adler830]

Considering how simple open bolt tubeguns are, how can one spend whole year designing one? I spent literally one evening designing open bolt full auto .22 SMG in Solidworks. Yeah, I know software can replace several people and fasten the whole process, but be realistic. A whole year and Sten is a result? Were they smoking weed all the time?

[@garyb8486]

Yep, well done on the pronunciation Ian.

[@jackfrost2146]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

[@davidlewis5742]

Leaving this comment for anyone coming to this old video to save them the trouble of reading the comments. This was a very good video and deserved serious consideration and not a lot of infantile, xenophobic, schoolboy gun masturbation! I thoroughly enjoy FW and hope that the standard of follower has improved over the past 4 years.

[@Danger3512]

Have you done a video of the son of Owen gun ?? The F1 submachine gun. more woodwork than the Owen no front grip and on top vertical mag, 9mm

[@ForgottenWeapons]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5Kli3ZvqZ6EadE

[@fireaza]

Germany: "Guten tag!" Australia: "You blokes are ages away! No worries!" Japan: "Konnichiwa!" Australia: "CRIKEY!"

[@Cer-i9e]

That actually made me lol

[@JonJon-wi2dh]

Nice

[@rhys3350]

As an Aussie, that was really funny.

[@kestrel4077]

Can't help but hear "crikey" in Steve Irwins voice.

[@joshmaher1403]

Shit that’s funny

[@CxOrillion]

Thinking they can improve the Sten? Austentatious.

[@jameslines6200]

👏👏👏 Comments winner right here lads! Pure class. Bad Tanker, I doff my hat to you sir.

[@johnnytrigger5512]

Brillient 1🤣🤣🤣🤨

[@hanisk2]

Genius.

[@somerandomdudeable]

Ohhhhh, Austen is short for "Australian Sten"

[@qh5545]

That is a terrible joke, thanks

[@ThisNewHandleSystemSucks]

"When Australia went into World War 2, they had, apparently, a grand total of three submachineguns.-" Oh three models in their arsenal? That's not bad. "One was an MP18 in a museum, one was a Thompson submachinegun that a captain brought back, and one was an MP38 confiscated by customs." Oh.... you meant literally three SMGs....

[@somberyu]

My thoughts exactly.

[@thedirector1378]

Same lol

[@matthewtscott1]

It's true, while we had some heavy machine guns leftover from the 2nd world war, no development had continued in Australia on improving our military assets up until the threat of Japanese invasion. In fact we didn't even take the threat seriously until the Japanese where on our doorstep in Papua New guinea.

[@gastonbell108]

"30 Years of Electricity"

[@Frombie_01]

@@matthewtscott1 "In fact we didn't even take the threat seriously until the Japanese where on our doorstep in Papua New guinea. " The threat was taken very seriously, just not by some. Churchill declared that Australia could fall and the English would get it back after the German were defeated. John Curtin argued that Australia's defense was paramount. Churchill thought it was ungrateful, impudent and highlighted innate “Australasian anxieties”. Roosevelt thought that Curtin's argument “tasted of panic and disloyalty”(this is after Pearl Harbour). Even after the fall of Hong Kong, The Philippines and Singapore, Churchill still refused to release the Australian 6th and 7th Divisions from the Middle East. Thankfully, Curtin persisted against Churchil's and Roosevelt's strategy to "defeat Hitler first" and brought Australian troops home to defend Australia and the Pacific. Mathew, maybe you should study Australian history and politics a little more, before indulging your ignorance and rubishing Australia and your fellow Australians.

[@KaDaJxClonE]

Blue gloves, for when you have a gun video at 10 and a colonoscopy at noon.

[@oneproudbrowncoat]

Two by two...

[@Pijawek]

Hands of blue

[@jonathangriffiths2499]

No chance of combined the two together with the current barrel fitted ?

[@alltat]

They're common in biochemistry, so maybe he'll be looking at biological weapons next?

[@diamondflaw]

Just..... try to... relax.

[@ajvanmarle]

You'd think it would be impossible to make the Sten Mk 1 any worse. Instead, they took away the one good thing about the Sten, the fact that it was cheap. Quite impressive.

[@zxbzxbzxb1]

I guess it seemed like a good idea after 24 cans of Fosters...

[@zxbzxbzxb1]

@UC0cCf-YP5pY870l0XKBn2sQ sold to us gormless poms to get mashed on whilst teetotal Ozzie-land produces a race of cricketing super humans like Steve Smith to keep our ashes for the rest of eternity 😆

[@ajvanmarle]

@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine Agreed, which is what makes it so sad. If they'd just limited themselves to welding on a couple of simple pistol grips, they would have made a major improvement for minimum costs.

[@SeizureSpecialist]

ZB6 uk Aussies don’t drink fosters.

[@mr_terminator5864]

Do you mean the mk1* or mk2/3? At least the mk1 had a flash hider and grip

[@Liamv4696]

Why is it that every Australian gun was designed on a napkin, as a dare, and then when asked whether "the new submachine gun design was ready", they told their boss "nah yeah she'll be right"..

[@andreahighsides7756]

Liamv4696 whats funny is their best submachine gun from this era was designed by a teenager, the Owen smg. edit: Oops, he was a young man not a boy, 22 iirc.

[@allangibson8494]

@@andreahighsides7756 On a napkin at home....

[@michaeldanks5975]

Don't you mean beer coaster?

[@michaelscott8567]

@@andreahighsides7756 It wasn't just "their" best. It was the best smg of the war.

[@andreahighsides7756]

michael scott Yes good point! Still used in Vietnam like the grease gun

[@konokono6760]

"The Germans aren't going to invade Australia" *laughs in HOI4*

[@clongshanks5206]

I just got done island-hopping as commie Anzacs lol I forgot how crappy their population was

[@SirDankleberry]

*Laughs in Scrap Iron Flotila*

[@347Jimmy]

Even more laughable is the idea of Germany invading Australia in WWI But the propaganda posters all said it was going to happen

[@John-un3lj]

Gonna need a follow-up on the story of that rouge MP38.

[@fetishartist137]

Dark Docs would have to cover that. Maybe Ian and Dark 5 could collaborate

[@ahorsewithnoname643]

Have you seen that MP38? I know the Aussies painted the Owen in camouflage colours but who would paint a MP38 rouge?

[@John-un3lj]

@@ahorsewithnoname643 Not as in colour. Rouge as in shady, off-the-grid, spy-hush-hush-business.

[@John-un3lj]

Just realized I spelled it wrong. Mah baedz.

[@ahorsewithnoname643]

@@John-un3lj Did you go a bit rogue ?🙂🤗

[@ThisFinalHandle]

Yep and only one bullet shared across all 3 machine guns. It was the wrong caliber for all of them but we made do.

[@proonguice8386]

I’ve heard throwing the actual machine gun might disable someone long enough to run away but only if you make a precision hit on their funny-bone or eye.

[@Guru_1092]

I can imagine the Australian military watching this video and just thinking to themselves "Shit. We forgot one."

[@larrygilbert7273]

I was almost 4 minutes in before I figured out "Austen" wasn't someone's name. I'm an idiot.

[@Arbiter099]

Not too much of a stretch to think it stood for AU Sten or Australian Sten

[@larrygilbert7273]

@@Arbiter099 I know, right?! That's why I felt like a dope! Guess I'm not stretch enough.

[@fred4089]

Awful sten.

[@GruntyGame]

Now you know for if you see someone talking about an Austeyr.

[@sillydude17]

Took me the whole video. Kept thinking 'Austin' sounds much more like an american name, palm met my face quickly after.

[@Outerwebs]

"The Sten gun is able to be produced quickly, simply and cheaply... but don't worry, we can fix all those problems!"

[@toaster9922]

“the diggers dismay” sounds like the name for a TF2 weapon.

[@itsconnorstime]

This could be a skin for the Snipers smg.

[@KingEddo8]

Snipers new sub confirmed.

[@thatguybrody4819]

sounds like a new spade for soldier.

[@vincentmueller3717]

Or the Clap.

[@BobBob-kr8yy]

So basically, they only had three smgs, and all of them were effectively stolen. How Australian

[@corysanderson6177]

nani?

[@Goannadria]

Considering the Australian units in North Africa were nicknamed the "Thirty Thousand Thieves", and would just about routinely break into and ransack their allies' supply depots... yep, very Australian.

[@PhoenixOfArcadia]

@@Goannadria Or the fact that the only surviving German A7V tank is in Australia because some of their soldiers saw it sitting abandoned in No Man's Land and they decided "hey, you see that abandoned tank out there? We wanna steal it."

[@neilhamill318]

@@PhoenixOfArcadia Unlike the U.S. that returned home from Japan after WW2 with many borrowed samurai katanas

[@schrodingersgat4344]

Two were sent there for "Buggery".

[@LazyLifeIFreak]

The only thing you'd need to add onto a Sten gun to improve it, was a proper grip and a front handguard. That's it.

[@nutsandgum]

It wasnt particularly reliable due to its magazine and feeding system as well.

[@calvingreene90]

@@nutsandgum Stop using the magazine as a handgrip and the reliability is greatly improved.

[@calvingreene90]

The sten gun needed better steel as well.

[@JS-ob4oh]

@@calvingreene90 Bullshit. The magazine is based on the same German design that was also used by the MP-40 and caused the same problems. Only a desperate nation would adopt it and only an idiot would call it reliable.

[@joshuahadams]

Carve out a nice piece of wood to seat it in and get some stain and lacquer for it.

[@dannythehonestgamer6051]

How to improve on the Sten for real this time. Just put on the handgrips from the Austen on a Sten. Good enouf and the troops will thank you. None of the other stuff was really needed.

[@pelao824]

I *think* one mark of the canadian sten had it (at least the foregrip) (Edit) only postwar, but stens with pistol and fore grips were fielded by the british in 1944 (Mk.V)

[@StacheMan26]

Don't even bother lengthening the receiver, just weld the handgrip to the stock in place of the anotamically impossible to grasp rib thingy

[@clongshanks5206]

pelao824 didn’t the Mk V have problems?

[@George_Doc]

Evolution of the STEN SMG based gun in simplicity: Plumbers Competition

[@allangibson2408]

The Sten was called the plumbers nightmare. The Austen was built by plumbers suppliers.

[@AUSJK]

The fact that Gun Jesus can pronounce Melbourne correctly is a testament to his power. I honestly can't think of a single time an American youtuber has stopped and corrected in that way. Respect

[@SaulKopfenjager]

But Ian did still first mis-pronounce it for the "American" audiences there, but it was at least a super fast correction to proper pronunciation of my home city name; MEL-BURN!

[@IncredibleMD]

@@SaulKopfenjager You pronounce your home city's name wrong.

[@donjones4719]

@@SaulKopfenjager Yes, I think Ian did deliberately mispronounce the name so people could find it on a map.

[@markfryer9880]

@@IncredibleMD How Dare you say such a thing about a fellow Melbournian!

[@markfryer9880]

Given the number of Yanks that came to Melbourne during WWII, you would think that more Americans could pronounce it correctly.

[@ArcturusOTE]

Looks like something the British would take over their own Stens, at least before the Mk V came on Also, does the Owen also take mags from the MP 28 / Lanchester, Sten and The MP40? Or at least can accept their mag well to replace it?

[@Zretgul_timerunner]

"Yes" does it work equally good with said mags who the hell knows.

[@andrewholdaway813]

Not sure why you think we'd take it over the sten, since it's a worse performing gun. It actually looks like a sten might have before we threw all the fancy bits away to make it more quickly and cheaply

[@Tiger351]

As far as I'm aware the Owen had its own proprietary mags, there was a protrusion on the rear of the mag which acted as the ejector for the gun.

[@TheDeadfast]

@@andrewholdaway813 The Austen does have the distinct advantage of being able to be held though.

[@andrewholdaway813]

@@TheDeadfast Not a huge advantage if it doesn't work though

[@AnonYmous-pq1fp]

I'd still pronounce it "Aus-Sten".

[@peepsbates]

"Die-cast construction. It's a lost art."

[@Panzerkampfpony]

Beast Wars?

[@itatane]

Loved that show, there were so many inside jokes and quotable moments. Yessss.

[@astondriver]

A gazillion match box cars use die casting. It was the forerunner of injection moulded plastics.

[@ОлегКозлов-ю9т]

Manufarcturers: we have an improved STEN! Australian army: it's the same gun, but more expensive Manufacturers: OH, wait, you think it was improved *for you* ? 0_o

[@JS-mp7fy]

As an Australian, I appreciate the correction of Melbourne :). Love your videos Ian, your attention to detail and history of the featured weapon is amazing.

[@AR15andGOD]

Well considering it's spelled bourne and not burn and given Americans don't usually interact with australians, it's perfectly understandable that this would happen. Not to mention the obvious dis ingenuity going on here, where you refuse to acknowledge the fact that the "proper" pronuncuation stems from your accent of shortening the "our" syllable in "bourne".

[@edwardd9702]

When Churchill called for the formation of the commandos in 1940 there was only 40 Thompson subguns in all of Britain.

[@dongray9852]

The Brits had a saying back in the day... "The more you overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain." Hmmm... 🤔

[@owen368]

So thats were Chief Montgomery Scott got that from

[@Bob_of_the_aif]

There was a lot of MP18’s floating around the place, the 1st AIF stole everything not bolted down 👌

[@PorcuPineAppleSauce]

I'd argue that the advantages of the sten being quick and easy to produce aren't so advantageous to a place like Australia. They needed guns yeah, but they also weren't burning through guns due to combat. I'd say the austen was a product of a somewhat proven (and only) design they had to go off of with some improvements and that's all it had to be

[@idontwanttoputmyname403]

"How many SMG's do we have?" "Three." "Threeee...?" "Three." "Right but three *what*?" "Just three."

[@ZGryphon]

"... Bugga."

[@neutralobserver3423]

"But he had not that supreme gift of the artist, the knowledge of when to stop." (Sherlock Holmes, "The Adventure of the Norwood Builder") Jonas Oldacre had something in common with a lot of firearms designers.

[@Gordons1888]

Australia: well Germany cant invade us Japan: no they cant...

[@allangibson2408]

Australia: You can’t either...

[@Andy69Mac1969]

Kind of.... the Thompson was being issued (bought from the US) in some significant numbers before both the Owen and Austen were fielded. These rained in service but were slowly withdrawn as the Owen came online. Thompsons bearing Australian FTR (Factory Thorough Repair - an Arsenal Rebuild if you will) marking are well represented in military and official collections here. As the Owen was not the product of "the system" here it remained disliked by the Military Hierarchy and it is what the Austen was pushed through to service as a F-U but flopped....

[@elwismorgan1230]

This thing is so strange to me, they completely missed the entire point of the STEN guns existence in the first place.

[@mr_terminator5864]

Well, the Australians probably thought fewer but better smgs was better than worse but more smgs

[@allangibson2408]

The Australian Army likes guns that just work. The Sten didn’t.

[@pcka12]

My dad always said that when they took away his Thompson and gave him a Sten he was less than impressed (especially since he had to wrap the punched metal ‘handgrip thing’ with insulating tape to avoid being cut by it)!

[@abeherbert6603]

Yeah pistol grips and fancy folding stocks are nice and all but they clearly missed the whole point of the Sten. Also I love that those manufacturers in Melbourne and Sydney were basically outdone by some kid in his shed.

[@graemesydney38]

6:38 The relevance of tools for maintainability - remember an Australian weapon was probably going to be used in more remote areas, (jungle, bush or the outback) rather than an urban fighting Sten.

[@klausbrinck2137]

There wasn´t such thing as an "urban fighting Sten"! Remember, Berlin was taken by the Soviets, not by the Brits...

[@rynehall9990]

Agreed..the entire maintenance kit should have been hidden inside the weapon

[@jonathangriffiths2499]

Weapon design failure : the whole point of the Sten was " do you want a gun that works now or take the chance on a better gun when it may be too late ?"

[@allangibson2408]

The Sten didn’t work in Australian trials. Hence the Austen that did.

[@banokles]

So, basically, we took a Sten and made it better in every way. Gotcha. This Aussie thanks you for your service..

[@repletereplete8002]

Except they made it worse in nearly every way. The corks on a string flotation device was a good idea though if it was fumbled whilst drunk and dropped in a billabong;]

[@DBCisco]

Odd that he only talks about the extra tooling but not why this is "worse" than a Sten nor how it was "unreliable". Seems the Thompson is junk based on his "rules".

[@jameshealy4594]

From what I understand the Thompson is junk, especially by WW2. Heavy, expensive, not especially controllable, nightmare reloads etc. I know it's an icon but it seems that is at least partly based on cool points. *Edited to change "unreliable" to "expensive" as that's what I meant to write. As far as I know they were at least relatively reliable.

[@DBCisco]

@@jameshealy4594 How is it "junk" ? I can say the same thing about an M-16.

[@TheCheat_1337]

Because it was very heavy and expensive to manufacture. The M16 had problems early on but they fixed those, and on paper it's one of the best small arms - it's very accurate for a service rifle, it's light, you can carry a lot of ammo, and production techniques were advanced enough 20 years later (and especially now) that cost isn't nearly as much of an issue as it was back in the 20s - 40s for the Thompson. A modern stock standard M16 or AR15 is far cheaper than the Thompson.

[@Think1st000]

Ian, you're a legend mate! You will probably never read this a the video is a few year old but as an Australian lad I appreciate you bringing our weapons history manufacturing up and making vids about it. Keep up the great work!!

[@Britishshooter]

Makes one wonder why the Aussies didn't just make their own MP38 clone instead of trying to improve a crap weapon?

[@UXB1000]

Probably there's not enough raw materials to work with.

[@vrisbrianm4720]

The MP38 is a relatively expensive sub gun, made from milled steel.

[@marcusborderlands6177]

@@jp18449 that isn't the point, yes they work, but they are far from ideal. The French resistance fought in spite of the shitty guns given to them, not because of.

[@charlesadams1721]

@@UXB1000no, that's not it at all. production of a relatively complicated piece of equpment is really quite difficult, That's why Ian mentioned that the whole technical package was sent for the Sten, the STEN? a gun that was said to be a "Plumber's Nightmare," to the Australians. As to the "wonderfulness" of the legendary Sten, I've known several dozen WWII veterans that were assigned the use of the Sten gun early in the US's involvement in the war, and none of them had anything complementary to say about it, other than it actually worked. not well, nor accurately, but it worked. As soon as "Grease Guns" were available, the discarded the Stens, and if ammunition was available, so did Brits. Interestingly, the few Aussies I ever spoke with liked their Owens, I think principally due to their confidence in the largely gravity feed.

[@marcusborderlands6177]

@@charlesadams1721 gravity feed? I thought they had the mag on top so that they could use the same mag design as everybody else, without worrying about the mags failing due to being faced up. So you reckon they made ground harness clips for em?

[@candidmoe8741]

The second-system effect (also known as second-system syndrome) is the tendency of small, elegant, and successful systems, to be succeeded by over-engineered, bloated systems, due to inflated expectations and overconfidence.

[@Ireallylikeeggs]

Yo this is an interesting concept and I appreciate you bringing it up.

[@allangibson2408]

The Sten failed Australian Army trials. Replacement was required.

[@AussieLiam93]

Cheers from down Under gun Jesus.

[@elsoldadomarquez]

I just want to see a shooting comparative between a STEN, a AUSTEN and a MP3008 somewhere in the future.

[@mr_terminator5864]

That would be at least 1000 years away

[@korbetthein3072]

Which came first, the mp-38 or the telescoping toilet paper holder? The resemblance is uncanny!

[@korbetthein3072]

I'm serious though, it's actually starting to bug me!