The "Do it all" god Mage: D&D

[@MrNikolasMorith]

Love how modest you're trying to be. "Got me a little know in the optimization community" Every guide written after yours kept trying to copy you. Lol

[@batterylevellow5473]

I'm not to familiar with optimization history. Did he do the blue green thing first or something?

[@MrNikolasMorith]

@@batterylevellow5473 That's the thing.

[@batterylevellow5473]

@@MrNikolasMorith Oh my god

[@batterylevellow5473]

@@MrNikolasMorith Seriously?!

[@MrNikolasMorith]

@@batterylevellow5473 yep

[@herrkrabbe148]

Good news Treantmonk, Order Domain Cleric was also added into Tasha's Cauldron of Everything

[@sesimie]

When the God Wizard Author talks about a God Mage....i listen and click like.

[@chadbrochill19]

When someone asks you if you are a god, you say YES.

[@mcullennz]

A God wizard with no wizard 😁

[@mathieudemers199]

@@mcullennz that sound the OZ-car right Dorothy 😏

[@seankramer8525]

@@mcullennz Treant is the god wizard he refers to, the build being a god mage is different and broader

[@godminnette2]

I think you missed the fact that when you bump your wisdom to 14, you get a third cleric spell to prepare each day. Small bump, but a bump nonetheless

[@syncarn]

Nice, that leaves room for Healing Word which seems borderline broken with Voice of Authority. Trading a bonus action 1st level spell slot for a rogue sneak attack is just crazy.

[@jomohunter4649]

resilient wis feat to not become frightened etc. so he gets wis to 14 eventually

[@Razdasoldier]

Checking in a year later if you have access to silvery barbs you get to debuff, buff, and use voice at the same time. Use wither and bloom to damage, heal, and voice at the same time. Now you can tank, dps, heal, buff, and debuff all at the same time. If dm allows strixhaven background (even without the feat) you take quandrix so that circle of power opens up to you

[@reecewood1918]

That's what I did, but we had a 35 point, point buy and a free first lvl feet for any race. The other casters are baffled by my spell list haha

[@SilverKarlov]

Clockwork Soul is the subclass that's reinvigorated the Sorcerer kick for me. The spell choice just feels almost endless, it's so exciting!

[@philwalsworth4085]

I did too! Really excited to make one, might actually take sorceror straight instead of multiclass like I have for years!

[@SilverKarlov]

@@philwalsworth4085 I have this recurring character I play that is a martial sorcerer, and clockwork inspired me to remake him with this subclass. A lot of the things you get lend really well to playing a melee character. Armor of Agathys + the 6th level ability makes for a surprisingly tanky character. Before I was using Draconic for the free mage armor and +1 HP, but I think Clockwork just adds so much, plus it makes me excited to build it.

[@moto2442]

Honestly it is so good for a sorlock as well. The fact that it can remove disadvantage fixes a big issue with the base build which is melee enemies. That plus the insane versatility of the spells (originally I would go divine soul for more versatility this gives even more spells so awesome) Plus it makes going polearm master with a sorlock a viable strategy. When they enter your reach as a reaction you can blast out 4 eldritch blasts the first one without disadvantage due to the ability. And the rest without disadvantage due to no longer being in reach. That combined with the extra survivability

[@mydknightcloud]

I started homebrewing other sorcerers to have expanded spell list for my groups games. Divine soul gets to choose domain spells instead of picking an alignment. Doing this from all origins really spices up the class.

[@crownlexicon5225]

Wood elves can also "ignore" the heavy armor penalty Well, not really, but with a base walking speed of 35, with the 10' penalty, they're at the same as a dwarf who ignores the penalty

[@ChristnThms]

I was thinking about this. I mean, the dwarf "suffers no penalty..." beyond being a dwarf. But, being a dwarf IS a movement penalty. So, besides Wood Elves, there's the Centaurs, Leonins, Dhampirs and Satyrs. Plus the atypical movement boosts for Tabaxis and Orcs, and the Feral Tiefling only gives up 1AC (swapping to med armor) for flight. I'm not saying anything against the Hill Dwarf choice. Just saying that the racial choice isn't as limited as that.

[@jomohunter4649]

I think the bonus hp made the difference and i get why! My lvl 5 wizard has 25 hp cause i rolled for hp and had a 14...ill never play a caster that squishy agin!^^

[@levipeterken4020]

How does he wield a shield and cast spells?

[@crownlexicon5225]

@@levipeterken4020 with the other hand? My paladin/sorcerer has a morning star or lance in one hand and a shield in the other and still casts spells. Gotta be sure they're verbal only or a paladin spell where I can use my shield/holy symbol. For spells like Shield, I have to use subtle spell.

[@Razdasoldier]

@@levipeterken4020 to be safe put your holy symbol as an emblem so it can be on armor or shields, sorcerers can use arcane focus (I recommend staff for the use as a quarter staff until you can get a blood well vial and use the necklace to get around everything.

[@Reoh0z]

Me, "Sorcerers should get free spells like clerics." Friends, "That's too powerful, if they ever did the spells would suck." WotC, "I got you fam, here you go."

[@ryanrindler1715]

I believe Order Domain was reprinted in Tasha's, so no need to have MTG content.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

For a fix on D&D beyond for Clockwork Soul, see the video description. Also, I was reminded that the Order domain is in Tasha's, but for some reason I couldn't select it in D&D B without Magic content turned on.

[@thedude0000]

My work around was to create a Homebrew based of the subclass. I was able to edit the spell list that way and still have all the other abilities. Not the easiest way, but it works.

[@hyruleenigma]

Clockwork soul is definitely the next sorcerer I'm playing. For a subclass whose flavor is seemingly based on enforcing rigid normalcy, it's lovely to see how flexible and open-ended it is mechanically.

[@WinterPains]

Personally, I like the idea of a character who gets their magic from order, vut has to make their choices in a chaotic manner (planning a Warforged or a Kenku who can't decide on complex choices alone, so they use dice to decide stuff).

[@hyruleenigma]

@@WinterPains I like that concept! I myself am planning a gambler who's unnaturally lucky until they're "cursed" with a connection to Mechanus for being too improbable. They find out they can use Mechanus's energies to fuel their powers later in life.

[@WinterPains]

@@hyruleenigma I like that. Obviously the Gambler background. Likely with the Lucky feat. Perhaps a halfling as well?

[@hyruleenigma]

@@WinterPains it'd be a shame not to!

[@WinterPains]

@@hyruleenigma I'm also really into Artificer right now. My current favourite flavourful build is an Anubis Cleric. Obviously a Grave Cleric, mutliclassed into a Battle Smith Artificer who fights with a scythe (reflavoured glaive), has a Jackal Steel Defender, and uses magic bandage-like cloth he weaved himself (Weaver's Tools).

[@logancuster8035]

Just want to give a shout out to the Protection from Good and Evil spell. If you’re character happens to find themselves Barovia, or the hells, for example, I would consider it a top tier, low resource, buff spell. Not to mention that it works great with both Twin Spell, Voice of Authority, and it doesn’t even need to push out any of your spells known, as your Cleric preparations allow you to pick it up as needed.

[@samuelbroad11]

my paladin in Barovia has used this to great effect, esp the can't be charmed or frightened part against hags. Concentration does eventually get lost, but as the only tank has allowed me to draw fire just by proximity. Getting Haste next level but hate the lose a round effect when dropping Concentration.

[@shanebernier2483]

I just need to say, I'm so happy to see you do an Order Cleric 1 / Sorcerer X build finally. Back before TCoE came out I played a very similar character with Divine Soul, focusing purely on buff spells (since Dwarves couldn't boost CHA back then, and it was also just fun to play without ever taking an ASI). I figured that Clockwork soul could probably be used to better effect, and glad o see I was proven right.

[@sadgeman4589]

A sorcerer that isn't a one-trick pony???? Witchcraft!!! Or should I say... SORCERY!

[@andrewreimann5203]

I've been playing with this build almost identical to this, and I took ritual caster with that 13 Wisdom. I will say, traditionally sucky metamagic like Distant and Extended are actually good on this build. Two hour Agathys is great for dungeon crawls, and 16 hour Aid is perfection. Staying in range with counterspell, dispel magic, and the buff spells (touch and otherwise), is wonderful for this build

[@adamkaris]

Doesn't distant not work with counterspell? Since the "Casting time" specifically says "a reaction when a creature within 60' casts a spell" and not "a reaction when a creature within range casts a spell"? So the range of counterspell gets doubled to 120', but you can still only use it on a target within 60?

[@andrewreimann5203]

@@adamkaris that’s an incredibly strict raw reading. I guess folks should take that up with their dm beforehand. I’m a pretty strict raw dm, and even I would allow that asterisk to match the spell’s described range

[@nickm9102]

@@adamkaris Typically the response by CP is that the mechanics that more focused (Sorcerer Metamagic over Spell) is the suggested mechanic to follow unless there is a specific statement addressing the topic in the books.

[@argentumvulpus6060]

I've been waiting for this build ever since the clockwork soul got officially released! Thank you

[@comfortablegrey]

I appreciate your acknowledgement that aberrant mind sorcerer is a more popular subclass, but you strongly support your feelings for the clockwork soul! Force cage alone is hard to argue with, if the campaign gets to that level. Also, this build has one of the best single level dips I've ever seen.

[@nidielcacaca]

I wouldn't get rid of lesser/greater restoration, they are not obtainable later if I change my mind about the spell selection. Besides that, this is probably the best character build i've seen in a while :D

[@godminnette2]

There should probably be an errata that you could change it back to the original spells on the list...

[@nidielcacaca]

@@godminnette2 that would be perfect

[@morganpetros9635]

Depends on whether you've already got a cleric or druid in the party. If so, you really don't need these on your spell list.

[@wassentme1891]

I assume since he is doing a Sorcerer he isn't trying to fill those roles. I agree he could, but sounds like that is low on his priority list. If he wanted those spells he would play those classes.

[@solarupdraft]

It was probably your guide that first keyed me in to why Bless is usually better than Bane, and it's the same problem to solve that your one-shot players faced: enemies don't want to be affected by your spells, but your allies do. So, thanks!

[@Zswasd]

Recently i made a Hexblade Aberrant Mind character, i felt like it was super optimized (although i focused a little bit more on damage, but still), but after some of your arguments in this video i see a lot of flaws on my build. Also i grew to appreciate the clockwork soul a little more (when i read it at first, i didn't think it was nearly as good as aberrant mind), the spell list on this subclass is a lot better than the aberrant mind gets. Keep it up, i like your optimizations ideas a lot .

[@jonathanmcdermott25]

Holy shit! I didn’t know you had a KZbin channel!! Your wizard guide forever changed how I view the class. Thank you sir!

[@hadcam4962]

The perfect build doesn't ex... Well take me sideways through Limbo, this is awesome.

[@incantrix1337]

*casts command on the rogue* "Attack!"

[@slickrickard]

I like the idea here I imagine you were going for sort of a Battle Master concept but wouldn't this just be a waste of a spell? The command issued by the command spell doesn't take place until a creatures turn as stated in spell. So a rogue would not milk another sneak attack nor would they gain any advantage from this other than the clerics ability to give them a reaction attack. Which is perfectly fine but sort of a waste of a spell slot when you could just hit them with a buff all the same.

[@kyowey4847]

@@slickrickard fairly sure that the idea is that the rogue just hides and never attacks lol. had one of those in my last campaign >.>

[@BODELTOTE]

@@slickrickard it was a joke, my dude

[@einsibongo]

This is how I've wanted the sorcerer's mechanic to work, I'm so happy. This build is great!

[@dandanner3111]

Edit: I was shocked that he didn't mention Minor Illusion first in his list of cantrips.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Nobody would have been more shocked than me if I didn't take it!

[@archmagemc3561]

Greater Restoration should stay on your list if you don't have a cleric/druid in your party, as when it comes up, its very important that you had it. But if you do, those two classes can prepare that spell when needed.

[@jasonetheridge2762]

For anyone reading this 2 years later, I agree with both lesser and Greater restoration as options to keep depending on your campaign. If the one cleric is paralyzed, you can lesser restoration them and give them a attack afterwards. Maybe that matters, maybe not. Same with your one other spellcaster with greater restoration memorized is petrified. Greater restoration removes petrified and gives them an attack maybe. And that's just if it's the cleric. If it's another character that's blinded or charmed and the cleric needs to get a PC up with a spell or potion other than healing word, having the option to restoration someone else means the party gets two PCs back in one turn and helps avoid a death spiral.

[@robjob34]

What do you think about swapping enlarge/reduce for suggestion? I think suggestion + subtle spell is a great combo in social situations. Is there a different second level spell that would be better to swap?

[@taa347]

I still prefer Aberrant Mind because of the theme and all the lovely mind control + improved subtle spell, but you've definitely shown how ridiculously versatile clockwork is. I have an NPC I run in my games who was a warlord in 4th edition and what you've made here evokes that really well for me. Thanks for the video!

[@russgarry2810]

Another use of Restore Balance would be to help your rogue teammate as it prevents the disadvantage from making sneak attacks not happen.

[@finalfantasy50]

rogue teammate got knocked unconcious? step next to that enemy, use healing word to revive the rogue, voice of authority triggers and the rogue can attack with reaction, restore balance to remove disadvantage and because you are next to the enemy the rogue can sneak attack

[@Kurse_of_Kall]

42:21 "Haste *always* works" Cannot stress this point enough. I have a wizard who has a beautiful suite of battlefield control and debuff spells, but when you can't utilize a Hypnotic Pattern, and Slow just doesn't do anything to the enemy, Haste is a great way to still be effective with my casting.

[@FelineElaj]

I can't agree enough. Every time the opposition is heavy on resistances, immunities and Legendary resistances (which is often, on higher levels), I am grateful to have trusty Haste on my side. Just cast Haste on a barbarian and watch the body parts fly.

[@jakubkucharczyk5255]

With twinned spell Haste can be casted on two most damaging weapon users in the party, they will love sorcerer for this. Fantastic spell.

[@Booklat1]

@@FelineElaj can recommend

[@jasonsmith1950]

One other thing haste has is a wave of lethargy after the spell ends. Makes maintaining concentration on it really important, but I can't help but think that there would be ways to use this on an enemy - just cast it on them, then drop concentration when its convenient.

[@SmugLookingBarrel]

I always find it ironic that the class that works best with an Order cleric is Rogues. Great build as always.

[@peterrasmussen4428]

I want to mention, you say you won't be casting command, but it is actually a really good spell to trigger voice of authority. Just command your ally to attack. Notice how we don't have any other first level spell that can safely target an ally and doesn't require concentration, that is why command is deceptively good on this build.

[@KaelinGoff]

Im actually doing this with with the parties bbeg right now. A charismatic religious figure type. Loads of flavor and fun mechanics!

[@prixiusnecrolance8531]

Or just cast healing word

[@peterrasmussen4428]

@@prixiusnecrolance8531 I don't know how I missed that. I have run an order cleric/bard, where I always use my bonus action to inspire. So maybe that is why I didn't think about it.

[@agilemind6241]

Issue there is that once the creature does the command they end their turn. So if you command an ally to attack they cannot use a bonus action or their movement nor choose the optimal target. They must attack the nearest creature within range and then end their turn.

[@peterrasmussen4428]

@@agilemind6241 well, it will depend on interpretation, but you can always order them to fight, or whatever else you can come up with that is non-disruptive

[@reecewood1918]

I'm playing this build with a few alterations and I absolutely love it. My DM has a bunch of 3rd party content and UA available so I've switched a few things up. Right now we're at lvl 5 and I'm feeling like the most powerful charecter at the table, but doing it in such a way that I'm never overshadowing the other charecters at the table. Fist time playing a god wiz and I love it. Thanks for the build Chris!!!

[@goblinking1349]

With Fey Touched, I would recommend getting Dissonant Whispers instead of Tasha's Hideous Laugher. The Dissonant Whispers can trigger a lot of opportunity attacks, and if twinned can make two melee creatures waste their turn. Crucially, it does not use concentration, so it ages a lot better than Tasha's.

[@civilbeard]

I agree. Dissonant whispers is excellent.

[@Zepherus14]

Isn't Dissonant Whispers unwilling movement? If so it wouldn't proc opportunity attacks, much like being pushed away from an opponent

[@civilbeard]

@@Zepherus14 The spell forces the creature to use its reaction to move. The text for opportunity attacks states that you don't provoke one "when you teleport or when someone or something moves you without using your movement, action, or reaction." Since Dissonant Whispers makes you use your reaction to move, you do provoke opportunity attacks.

[@Zepherus14]

@@civilbeard Had to look it up... I... I am very confused, it appears you're right! I... don't know where I read that then? I know it's from something... How very very strange. BUT! Thank you very much for clearing that up, I have learned something new today!

[@banfox_]

@@Zepherus14 maybe you got confused with booming blade, which requires the movement to be intentional (?)

[@sarezar]

I love how KZbin auto-captions starts your videos with "Hey upton answers". Yep. I'm an Upton Answer alright! (Now to actually watch the video)

[@numbug1234]

If you were a wood elf, you'd get your speed reduced by 10 from wearing heavy armour, and walk at the same speed as the Dwarf does anyways. EDIT: and then 5 seconds later you point out a different dwarven feature you picked dwarf for lol.

[@samuelbroad11]

was thinking the same! makes me think wood elf clerics are a thing.

[@TheObsidianWarlock]

Fantastic build!! (I'd have mentioned Demiplane for 8th level spells. As long as the DM is on board, it's a super useful utility.) I'd also love to know your opinion of what spells to switch out if you are also the party transport and need Teleport & Planeshift.

[@Bilbrons-and-Dragons]

Wicked! Nice to see how effective that "swap out spells" thing can be. Super impressive caster that is very tempting to play. I do like a good buff. Metagaming, as an Arcane Caster climbs in Level, the whole issue of "how can I contribute without overshadowing the rest of the party?" starts coming up. When I hit that point in Bilbron Bafflestone's game, I started buffing all the time (even though it's technically suboptimal) and great fun was had by all. My party Martials started getting addicted to that sweet sweet Haste juice, lol... and I had Spell Storing items so had plenty to spread around.

[@tyleremery7088]

Haste does kinda sound like a drug...

[@jbirmingham2380]

I saw a Reddit discussion going over this build. Took a few comment strings to get the right answers but I like just watching a video over it. Thanks!

[@bosunbones.8815]

I feel like I want to build this with a warforged just for the theme.

[@tikiwikiki]

I envision a dwarf with dwarwen mother working as a mechanic and living with a war forged who gets the father role but is the effeminate one in the couple. Biological father is a mystery and there are many rumors about his genetic dad to give some backstory potential 😁. This build is an absolute thrill!!!

[@silvle01]

If you get access to mithril plate you definitely could do this build as Warforged

[@seacliff217]

Nice thing about a Warforged is that you don't need to rely on Tasha's alternate racial rules for it to work. None of my DMs use those rules, so Hill Dwarf might not be the best race if I use this build at their tables.

[@davidfurtado1668]

i rolled some epic stats and built this as a human (had enough STR for heavy armor, enough wis to multiclass)... if I ever become unconscious without outright dying, I'll racechange to warforged. Inspired by Terminator movie

[@dmal-ty5qw]

When TreantMonk makes a caster video, and it's an hour. I know I'm in for it. Amazing work always. You know the game so well.

[@peterrasmussen4428]

Hmm... I don't know about keeping levitate when you have fly. Seems to me Enhance ability would be a better option, it helps in pretty much any non-combat challenge. It comes up so many times, and plays very nicely with both subtle and twin metamagic. Rogue sneaking in somewhere? Enhance ability. Bard charming an NPC? Enhance ability. (Subtle metamagic if needed) Athletics check to climb a mountain? Enhance ability. (Twined to help two people) etc.

[@nicholass5621]

i personally don't think rogues need any help with stealth

[@kolskit]

Impressive! While this character doesn't get some of the insanity of an end-game wizard, the mid-game versatility is amazing, and in all honesty I've NEVER naturally gotten to 17-20 in a game. They always end around 15, and we maybe come back for a max level one shot. This character looks like it would make those first 15 levels smooth as butter, and the end game still gets wish (were I to ever get there)!

[@nickm9102]

Yep, the goal of every Sorcer, Wizard, and Arcana Cleric Lvl 17 in the class.

[@jeffdietz630]

RAW for level 18 ability repairs Staff of Magi that was used in retributive strike.

[@einsibongo]

...every day after a long rest. That and capitalism and we got a fortune few hundred buisness going.

[@elizabethviolet8448]

After you snap it in half, the two halves will take fuckloads of force damage, and i don't know if you can repair things after they've been reduced to thin wisps of smoke...

[@erikwilliams1562]

....never thought of removing advantage from spell resistance....I facepalmed so hard I need a heal

[@TL582j]

This channel is so good. For a seemingly simple system like 5e ive found tones of things I hadn't considered on these videos.

[@WildVii]

Matt Colville recently said on a live stream that Legendary Resistance makes very little sense in context. His take is that giving the DM the ability to just say “Nope” to a player disincentivizes them from using their cool high level abilities. That being said I agree with the thesis that wizards should have a mix of abilities/spells.

[@fadeleaf845]

How about instead having a boss' legendary actions be exempt from Incapacitation while above 0 HP?

[@WildVii]

@@fadeleaf845 Or just don’t give them free successes and instead give them more legendary actions with no point cost. Things they can do based on specific triggers. A spell is cast, a creature provokes, etc… Essentially more action economy.

[@agilemind6241]

@@WildVii Extra actions mean nothing if the big bad gets Stunned or Paralyzed or Polymorphed or Incapacitated or Plane Shifted or trapped out of range of the party.

[@WildVii]

​@@agilemind6241 Right, but all of those are easily rectifiable by simply giving them condition immunities, spells that can allow them to teleport back in the event that they are Plane Shifted...etc. Forgive me, but I feel like there's a distinct lack of creative thought on the part of DMs here. It seems that there's a knee-jerk reaction that WotC should provide a solution for every player created contingency. As a result, they created Legendary Resistance which doesn't really maintain verisimilitude. I would personally address each of the above issues thusly: (1) Give the boss condition immunities against being stunned or paralyzed. Alternatively give them magic items that provide these effects. Bonus because now you've got loot the party can obtain. (2) There's a feature that certain monsters have that prevent their shape from being forcibly changed. Can't remember it off the top of my head, but you can gin one up. Remember, you're the DM...monster stat blocks are a guideline. (3) For cases involving Banishment or Plane Shift, I would probably create a special action where the creature sucks in/drags other creatures along with it as it is Plane Shifted. You could have it use a reaction (or special action whatever you want here...) to force some number of creatures within 60 feet to make a save against the caster's DC (in this case the PC casting Plane Shift or Banishment). If they fail, they are dragged along with the creature. Bonus for additional tension and drama, make it so that the caster is no longer the one maintaining the concentration on the spell, but now the enemy creature is. See? Creative solutions that add to the drama rather than coming up with a generic catchall that just 'nopes' awesome player abilities away.

[@coldfusion230]

It's all well and good until everyone else comes to the table with a monk!

[@Razdasoldier]

A TREANT MONK! (EPIC THEME MUSIC)

[@Xyronyte]

If you want to be a _real_ God Mage, take _uncommon_ myzium apparatus, and max Arcana, then take a level in every class. Now you can cast every spell in the entire game!

[@thelitchfieldexperiment6269]

How do you maximize your Arcana, just skill expert and stat pump?

[@Xyronyte]

@@thelitchfieldexperiment6269 I took a dip into bard or knowledge cleric for expertise, played a race that added 1d4 to arcana (there are a couple out there), stat pump, and then any items that boost intelligence or proficiency above their natural cap. You also need to take a 1 level dip into each caster class. This item negates the downsides to doing so and allows you to cast any spell you have a class in, and a spell slot of the requisite levels in

[@Xyronyte]

@@thelitchfieldexperiment6269 I also recommend a 2 level dip into Circle of Stars Druid. This makes any arcana roll below 9 a 10.

[@calebelkins217]

Would it be possible for you to do an update video on this build and how playing it has been so far since you said that this was going to actually be a PC you were gonna play?

[@DnDDeepDive]

I knew it! ;)

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Yep, we can be predictable ;)

[@DnDDeepDive]

@@TreantmonksTemple Love the build, btw. Feels like a Swiss Army Knife on steroids :)

[@honestbenny]

I think the better one would be to use Custom Lineage, 18 CHA at start with Fey Touched/Telekinesis, 1 Hexblade dip, grab Eldricht Adept: Agonizing Blast at level 5, level 9 +2 CHA for CHA 20. This way you have Sorlock DPR with Agonizing Blast, Curse and Quicken Agonizing Blast and only 1 level spell progression lost instead of 2. And I think single target DPR is worth more than Order cleric gives becasue one thing that Wiz/Sor lacks is reliable DPR. That's how I will do it and I will let you know how it went.

[@CharmingLiveEnt]

Took tiny servant for my build with this. Anytime I drop a hypnotic pattern, poison dragons breath or synaptic static the tiny servant can use their voice of authority reaction attack.

[@jinxtheunluckypony]

It still upsets me that every pre-Tasha’s Sorcerer is obsolete now.

[@alanschaub147]

I really enjoyed this video, and it is an amazing build! I have never been interested in playing a dwarf, though. I don’t know why. Thematically, I am much more interested in the flavor and role-play opportunities of an Aberrant Mind Sorcerer. I am eager to see what you do with it! 👍🏻

[@reecewood1918]

Voice of authority+ healing word + restore balance = making your friend who just went down super happy. Also, VOA + silvery barbs

[@jugglejunk]

VOA also works great with ranged martials and vortex warp, thunder step or dimension door. The healing from Wither and Bloom might also be appresiated.

[@TheAdditionalPylons]

Hearing your brief opinion on Bless in this video causing me to have PTSD. I have a Cleric and a Paladin in my Friday night campaign and neither of them have cast bless once (because SMITE always, amirite?). This clockwork sorcerer is super competent... I would love to hear your opinion on how to constructively motivate your players to explore their spell list and character sheets and not just use the same spells every encounter because they've heard that critical smites and Spiritual weapon are really good, thereby reliving themselves of their responsibility to be familiar with the mechanics of their character outside of their AC and Attack modifiers. I think just saying "Hey, cast Bless" (or heroism, or crusaders mantle, or Aid, or Anything really) robs them of discovering the value of a feature/spell and choosing to use it on their own.

[@CharmingLiveEnt]

Throwing a synaptic static at a hydra is the only case where you can target a single creature.

[@wisnakeo]

“Hey upton answers chris here”

[@seacliff217]

For players with DMs not allowing Tahsa's optional racial rules. (I have 3 DMs and none of them allow it, I can't be the only one), consider using Half-Elf and use Half-Elf versatility to get the Wood Elf's Fleet of Foot. As stated in this video, the only downfall for not meeting the strength requirement for Heavy Armor is a loss of 10 feet of base movement. So a race with 35 feet base movement wearing heavy armor without meeting the strength requirement will still have 25 feet of movement, the same movement as a Dwarf. You won't get the extra HP that the Hill Dwarf gets, but you'll get that vital +2 Charisma and two flexible +1s, allowing you to replicate everything else in this build. You can even start with 14 Wisdom and be a little better with your Cleric spells if you can stand having an odd number for wisdom once you get the Resilient feat.

[@kshea4231]

i love the great spell list that you can achieve with clockwork, but the class features really just don't do it for me. especially the 6th level one. there is no way I'd waste SP on that. you get far to few of them. aberrant mind gets far more useful class abilities but the spells aren't as great. hard choice

[@CanisMythson]

I went a slightly different route for my level 5 Var. Human CS sorc, starting off with Metamagic Adept and Ritual Caster targeting the Wizard list, to create a character that not only has more spells available to cast then a Wizard, but doesn't even sacrifice the ritual functionality, having all the great stuff there. Also because they seemed fitting for this "gung ho sorcerer that believes he's a wizard" build, he got the Quicken and Subtle metamagics from Metamagic Adept in addition to Distant and Heightened. Heightened specifically to increase the chances one of those potent control spells takes effect on the target, and Distant because Counterspell at 120 feet solves the main issue with Counterspell.

[@OriginalJayByrd]

Nice build :) What if you made it as a Fairy instead? You'd get inlarge/reduce automatically and levitate is a nonissue, as you have a fly speed, so you free up at least two spells known :)

[@feltrix334]

I love the explanation for why Fireball is included: because the best crowd control effect is Dead.

[@MadNitr0]

Ignoring the 2024 version of d&d would you consider this build still optimal?

[@texteel]

"doesnt have to be a cleric spell, doesnt have to be a beneficial spell" I think i know where this is going

[@ArvelDreth]

I just finished a campaign that actually surprisingly got to level 20 and my friend used this build while I played the peace cleric 1/chronurgy wizard 19 from tabletop builds and it was such a blast. We really had an answer to basically every problem, and at no point did any of the other players feel overshadowed. The DM didn't even feel upset at how optimized we were. Thank you so much for putting this build together.

[@jimmyreinstein9993]

Hey Treantmonk. What would you do differently if your DM didn’t allow the customize your origin feature?

[@MagicianOfFlame]

What an amazing build! This combines most things I love about being the party caster. They would be very happy just to have you around it's great! I personally like to have at least one healing spell (healing ward) to buff anyone who is down. I'd also consider social spells but that definitely depends on the campaign. I am very tempted to try this instead of aberrant mind. Question: what is your opinion on quickcast mind sliver as a metamagic option (maybe instead of careful)?

[@TheCWasson12]

The Mark of Warding dwarf from Eberron gets Armor of Agathys naturally btw!

[@44tuck3r]

It is *technically/* setting specific though, and is not necessarily gonna be allowed in every campaign

[@TheCWasson12]

@@44tuck3r Sure, but the MtG material he used in this build is similar in that way.

[@44tuck3r]

@@TheCWasson12 except for having been reprinted in tasha’s. Likewise, reprints of subclasses from theros, the artificer, and (with modifications) the spore druid & bladesinger all reflect a consideration of these options having a more ubiquitous role in the dnd multiverse.

[@TheCWasson12]

@@44tuck3r I guess that's true. Not all DMs are that picky though

[@derekseaton4412]

I came here to say this, because I found out days after watching this video

[@applecrow8]

Do animated objects get a reaction? I'd think that would open it up for massive abuse with this build.

[@boumxyz]

@treantmonk's temple Since you want this guy to be a buffer, instead of Tough would you have considered Inspiring leader feat ( knowing you're a charisma character ) ? I know it conflicts with Armor of Agathys but it helps other party members which is the concept you're looking for..

[@Kurse_of_Kall]

I do wish you would give some suggestions for race if your table doesn't allow the floating racial ASIs from Tasha's Customize Your Origin. It is an optional feature after all, and figuring out the best way to emulate what you do in the build without the same access to racial ASIs can be a bit difficult.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

In order to do a Cha based race you would need to make significant alterations to the build. I might reconsider the Cleric dip (maybe go for Dex 14 instead of wis and go hexblade?)

[@mickthelick5788]

Echoing Chris here. Hexblade DIP's have always worked really well with Sorcerer. If you want some inspiration here's one I made earlier. ddb.ac/characters/50513723/xY1fEP Uses Agonsiing Eldritch Blasts with the Darkness/Devil Sight/Elven Accuracy Combo. Is pact of the chain as I like the idea of twining dragon breath onto an Imp familiar and it's good for getting advantage should your darkness spell not do the job but you could just as easily take pact of the tome or pact of the blade as both are great, just depends on what flavour you are going for.

[@arsov9885]

A comment for support. Thanks for the video.

[@jeffadams9807]

I'll Keep Playing My 13th Level Bladesinger, He's Easy To Play & Does 3d8+3d8 w/2 Shadow Blade Attacks or 1 Shadow Blade Attack + 3-30 w/1 Firebolt Cantrip... I Like This Design & So Does My Party... For Buff Spells, I Took: Mirror Image & Fire Shield, They Help While In Combat... My Control Spells Are: Fireball & Steel Wind Strike...

[@bigklu4756]

Great build. If you did take Ritual Caster, it would obviously be for the Bard list (the most rituals) and would replace Resilient (WIS) - you could start w/ 8 INT and 14 WIS using PB. My question is whether you'd take Ritual Caster as your first feat before going Fey Ancestry/Warcaster/CHA+2 or would you still take Fey Ancestry at lvl 5 and do Ritual Caster at 9th?

[@MeepOfFaith]

I'm currently playing in a campaign where we're leveling up fast and I'm trying this build. Pros: It's awesome and effective. Cons: We're going so fast that when he said "We're level 8 now, we've had our fun with fireball it's time for it to go." I frowned as I skipped levels 6/7 and went straight to 8 from 5 xD Glorious build Chris!

[@Lastofthesigilites]

Is there a way to switch the spells on dnd beyond for the Clockwork spells? It's annoying for it to be there.

[@andrewkennedy5946]

You need to clone the subclass as your homebrew and to the edits there.

[@dominicdwk]

Do you still do one-shots? I’d like to sign up in patrons for one, I’d like to experience dnd played at your level. I can then take the lessons learned back to my group. Low level play

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I currently run games for Thaumaturge patrons each month, though that level is limited to 40 and is usually full. Archmage level patrons run and play in various roleplaying games each month, and I try to join in a few each month. You can check out the patron levels by following the link in the video description.

[@quincybriley4113]

This is probably one of my favorite builds that i've seen you make.

[@vipcesh]

After playing 2 sessions with my version of this build, it has been a blast (level 6). From dispel magic to fairyfire and haste, aid and gift of alacrity (meta magic extended so it lasts through a long rest) silvery barbs, and most spells causing free reaction attacks. I even lighting lured a gnoll into a pit. Never a dull spell!

[@bwhit7919]

Note: you can counter a subtle spell if it has a material component.

[@joeld2925]

You can counter any spell... if you can see the creature casting it. But how does casting a spell with only a material component actually look? If using a spellcasting focus... Prior to casting: the mage is holding their wand. During casting: the mage is holding their wand. After casting: the mage is holding their wand. If using a component pouch... Prior to casting: the mage is looking around. During casting: the mage sticks their hand in their pouch/pocket/backpack [and touches a material component - or not - nobody can tell]. Or perhaps the mage crouches down and puts one finger in the mud (casts sleet storm). After casting: the mage is looking around. I would be very surprised, in either case, if this counts as "seeing a creature casting a spell."

[@LibertyMonk]

@@joeld2925 yeah, it depends on roleplay and DM interpretation. A sorcerer who wanted to be subtle would probably have their components ready to go (hand on focus/in pouch). If the spell has a costly component, especially if consumed, then I'd think about ruling that they can see the casting, but otherwise, I'm with Joel.

[@agilemind6241]

Sight isn't actually necessary, if the enemy caster can hear you say the magic words then they can counterspell even if blinded.

[@nathansmith9597]

Also quick note that restore balance works on ability checks, so you can use it cancel out your own disadvantage for stealth rolls. Your stealth still won't be great, of course, so you won't want to pretend you are a rogue. However, group stealth checks are not uncommon, in my experience, and are sometimes very important. Restore balance (which can be combined with magical guidance from sorcerer level 5 onward, NB) means that your heavy armor probably won't screw things up, at least. Restore balance and darkvision also means that you can be surprisingly great at perception. Not top tier, but really good - cancel out the disadvantage from dim light, and (again) can be combined with magical guidance for those really important perception rolls. This build in particular can really leverage both of those (and throw guidance cantrip into the mix, at that). I think it will actually get a lot of mileage out of restore balance.

[@sqw33k]

I'd be curious to see an updated spell selection on this build since books like Strixhaven have come out with spells like Vortex Warp and Silvery Barbs. If only as a response to this comment. :)

[@LVDubstep]

Hi @trentmonk’s temple if you were able to add a few more feats onto this build what would you choose? I guess ritual caster or metamagic adept? Would you be able to recommend a few feats you would take extra if you were allowed to. Thanks great videos as always.

[@neal7805]

My next character for an upcoming campaign is a harengon 1 order cleric/x chronurgist. I'm planning on a lot of the same shenanigans. We will have a sharpshooter rogue/fighter in the party, so he'll hit like a truck with all those free weapon attacks.

[@arsarma1808]

Satyrs and Wood Elves move at the same speed when in heavy armor without any strength, IIRC. They don't get the medium armor prof or extra HP as an option though. :3

[@shanebernier2483]

Centaurs would also move even faster! That said, dwarf just gets so many awesome racial abilities that simply having the same movement speed doesn't make hose races contenders here.

[@jasonreynolds3795]

Love your guide and made a fun character based on it. In practice though, I'm struggling to activate Voice of Authority more than once a fight, since almost everything that triggers it is concentration. I mostly cast bless, shield of faith, or web, then hold concentration for the fight. Am I missing something?

[@maninalift]

The idea of an NPC knocking out one of our allies, then healing them and then popping back up and getting an immediate attack with "voice of authority" is really fun. On top of that extra attack if they stay up, they will get the next turn that they wouldn't have had otherwise. I can see a a good chance of getting a revenge kill this way.

[@havasimark]

How to be a better wizard than a wizard? Well, open up Tasha's, and...

[@michaelhantsch8365]

Why not Healing Word instead of Shield of Faith? It doesn't use your concentration, has range, and when they are healed, they get an immediate VoA attack.

[@Coid]

38:47 I saw that ability and immediately thought "That would combo really well with a raging barbarian to be super tanky. Or a fiendlock or someone else with regenerating temporary hp. Or even be pretty nice on a person with the Heavy Armor Master feat."

[@endfinum]

Nice build and i will play with tuff the buff :D but i am wondering how he can handle all the weight from his equipment? although you are negating the penatly for plate.. the character is still encumbered isnt he? and he will be not only because of the weight of his shield and plate but food/drinks and other equipment. Or am i missing something?

[@FelineElaj]

Haste is AMAZING. Have you ever seen how much carnage can a barbarian or a paladin do under the effect of Haste? No saving throw, no magic resistance, just results.

[@FelineElaj]

@@sharkforce8147 I may have played too much at the higher levels. Almost in every encounter, there are monsters that are either resistant or immune to the usual CC and debuff options we have. None are immune to the hastened barbarian, though.

[@FelineElaj]

@@sharkforce8147 sure, Hypnotic Pattern or a wall spell would be more impactful. I'm not disputing that. It's just, for the past two years, we've been playing at the higher levels, with so many spell-resistant foes, that I've come to appreciate Haste more.

[@Cloudwolf785]

Thank you so much for this video. I had been struggling trying to figure out how to build my character cause I wanted to play a trader/merchant kind of character which obviously does well with charisma but I wasn't feeling bard at all and wanted arcane casting but sorcerer just felt lacking in choices. This completely solves all my problems, though I won't be quite as tanky since I already decided to be a changeling for my backstory XD

[@thenightowldude]

That is a game-changing build.

[@NateFinch]

Well. This this the first time I've *ever* even considered playing a sorcerer. And this one looks amazing. Not only do you have an ever larger repertoire of spells than the wizard, but you also have charisma to be a leader outside of combat. That was my only real problem with wizards, they're never very talky.

[@44tuck3r]

I like that preparing even a healing word becomes more useful here than normal since it is giving an ally a reaction attack, using your BA and a low level slot, and no concentration.

[@Hidole555]

One thing I've noticed is that if Healing Word is used to bring an ally back from unconscious, there's some interesting interactions with the reaction attack. Because they were unconscious the person being healed has dropped whatever they were holding and are prone, meaning for most people from Voice of Authority you're looking at an unarmed strike likely made with disadvantage. This isn't so bad for Monks and anyone with Unarmed or Thrown Fighting Style, but someone like a Rogue would not be getting their Sneak Attack off on your turn since 1) they have disadvantage from being prone and 2) the Finesse weapon for it is still just laying on the floor. I suppose if the Rogue has the Thrown Weapon Fighting style (either from a feat or multiclass dip) you could walk up to the enemy, use the Help action with your ally being the unconscious Rogue, bonus action Healing Word and now the dagger he flings out will be at a normal roll, your Help advantage canceling out his Prone disadvantage, and your very presence from approaching the enemy grants him his Sneak Attack! It is ungodly niche, you may be seconds away from getting your face caved in, and I love it.

[@44tuck3r]

@@Hidole555 well, yes - IFF you restrict your healing words to downed allies. That is certainly relatively normal for healing word, as healing is often a suboptimal strategy in 5e. But; I am considering the use of Healing Word to be more optimal with this cleric subclass since it contributes to the damage dealt by the party in the round. If I am already concentrating on another buff/debuff/control spell, then I would be considering taking a help action and healing word, or a dodge action. But the BA cast increases in value significantly, even if healing itself remains suboptimal

[@kianholden7387]

@@Hidole555 Actually doesn't the clockwork soul have an ability that cancels disadvantage? Clockwork soul already fixes that problem, so no need to take the help action.

[@Hidole555]

@@kianholden7387 That had completely slipped my mind. Very clever!

[@marblemaster1]

Hey Treantmonk, I really liked this video! Especially since I've been wanting to play a Clockwork Soul sorcerer for awhile now. (That said, I'm disappointed you didn't mention Quickened Spell + Mind Sliver, where if the target fails the save against Mind Sliver you Quicken a save-or-suck.) That said, I've noticed that a lot of your videos are about spellcaster optimization, and even your Rune Knight collab guide had heavy multiclassing. Would you ever consider doing a video on how to optimize a fully martial character that doesn't have any spellcasting?

[@TreantmonksTemple]

That's a bit out of my comfort zone, so not sure.

[@WinterPains]

I like the flavor of the Clockwork Soul more. But I prefer the Aberrant Mind mechanically.

[@Oniphire]

Does Voice of Authority work if allies are in the area of Hypnotic Pattern, Synaptic Static, Fireball etc (and assuming you use Careful Spell)? Something like Slow or Bane will specify that you are targeting individuals within the area but Hypnotic Pattern says you're affecting everything within an area. Sanctuary says you don't have to make its wisdom save to include someone protected by it with the radius of a Fireball so it sounds like you're not targeting them with similar spells.

[@TreantmonksTemple]

Yeah, I went over this in a video a looong time ago, but according to JC, all creatures affected by a spell are considered targets of the spell. This works for the same reason that sharing cone of cold with your Find Steed spell doesn't work.