The Downfall of Evil Teams in Pokémon Started Here

[@jgr7487]

Team Flare: • don't use Fire & Fairy pkmn • have a strange relationship with the Champion, which means nothing for the plot • have an E4 member in their ranks, which means nothing at all • have 2 types of Admins, which could have meant a larger structure with more steps, but none of it is used • have almost no encounters throughout the story • are stylish AF GF did them dirty

[@emperorcubone]

We'll all be shocked when the Kalos remakes in Gen 12 shake up everything about them!

[@Markcrazeer]

@@emperorcubone if they know what they are doing then the Kalos remakes will be pretty much entirely reworked, maybe even open world, (I fear for the scarlet and violet story, there is a high chance it is genuinely just found here do the league sanctioned thing get the badge to find somewhere else, do the thing there don't run into terrorists beat league good job now participate in vgc idiot.) give us a proper storyline for xerneas and yveltal and zygarde, for every non-generic admin, for malva, and for your friends up to and including the player sexual dating sim that is Shauna.

[@machadragonii145]

Yeah I differently get it but no offence you keep in mind that after something as grandiose as Team Plasma or just Team Plasma in BW1 depending on how you ask it was nearly impossible not for it to be a struggle for GF to fellow up on that I not sure if they would've have expanded on them given there portrayal in the anime or had there had been a Pokémon Z

[@Xinoehp124]

Their grunt battle music was great tho

[@firesnakex8]

I bet they would have been something more in Pokemon Z if that had gotten made

[@macwelch8599]

I don’t know about evil, but that Ather Foundation woman was beyond insane

[@Rose-yx6jq]

Yeah. It was a genuinely good organization with a few bad eggs. But yeah. She was zubatshit crazy.

[@PansyPops]

I gotta have pity on her. She lost her husband while researching ultra beasts, likely causing her descent into madness. Then, her own son and daughter pretty much ran away, which likely didn’t help. All the other evil teams do it because they can, she’s evil because she doesn’t have any other options.

[@emperorcubone]

Actually the Ultra games make her the hero...

[@macwelch8599]

@@emperorcubone yeah, but the first Sun/Moon games made her insane

[@Dan55888]

@@macwelch8599 and the first games are way better

[@silverscreen842]

I think it is simple. A good team contrasts the themes of the region and game and actively works to uproot them. Gen 1 and 2: Pokémon are friends and companions Team Rocket: Pokémon are tools for power and money. Gen 3: Humanity and Pokémon should strive to work and live side by side in harmony with nature Team Aqua and Magma: destroy the balance of the eco system for their own gains. Gen 4: connections to the past help us navigate the present and form bonds to other people Team Galactic: the past and bonds are meaningless, we will wipe out everything and start anew. Gen 5: reality isn't always set in stone, different people have different views and hearing them out is important to live with one another. Team Plasma: hive-minded cult with everyone thinking the same. Gen 7: culture and tradition connects the people. It's important to honor them and nature Team Skull: We don't feel like we belong, so we resent your culture and traditions and we will do what we can to disrupt them.

[@shadowdragonlord2295]

What about 6 and 8?

[@French.Toast.5]

Gen 8: living up to legacy or desiring fame can be difficult, but if you strive to forge your own path, then you will have your own accomplishments Team Yell: stick to winning at all costs, but in the end only one person matters and she is the only one who is going to win and become a famous champion so your efforts are wasted

[@French.Toast.5]

Feel free to tweak my Gen 8 one it was hard trying to show team yell relevance and added philosophy to the plot haha

[@silverscreen842]

@@shadowdragonlord2295 I had no idea what to write for 6 and 8.

[@silverscreen842]

@@French.Toast.5 I'd say Gen 8 was more about idolization, but that did not carry over well into the Eternatus plot. Maybe if Rose was a Leon fanboy and awakened the Dragon to give the people a show. Then maybe.

[@chirayu2935]

If I remember correctly, part of B2W2 was that team plasma split into factions after the events of BW1. There was one faction that followed Ghetsis and another that followed the virtues of N. It’s a lot more story heavy but I find it incredibly interesting

[@spoopbagoot4628]

Yep and they give you the Zorua in the town where you fight Clay, I think it may even have N as it’s original trainer

[@extremmefan7305]

​@@spoopbagoot4628 It does! It's specifically given to you by one of the sages, too.

[@synodicseason]

@@extremmefan7305 and if you bring it to the gates before victory road n will recognize it as his!!!

[@spartanjeffrey9993]

Same and ghetsis scared me cause he was willing to kill and endanger inocent people for his goals

[@vampenga9277]

@@spartanjeffrey9993 Yeah Ghestis is one terrifying mf'er. Haven't played Gen 5 in a hot minute but if I remember correctly, if it weren't for N he would've killed the main character in one of the games.

[@ohweareimpertinent339]

I think it's unfair to judge the Aether foundation and especially Team Skull by the standards of more previous evil teams. Pokémon games are formulaic, yes, but that doesnt mean that every element of every game should be the same. Evil teams may be a staple of the franchise, but neither Alolan team is evil. Aether foundation is well meaning, but Lusamine's descent into madness due to her breaking family leads to threatening consequences. Team Skull is made up of disillusioned misfits who feel alienated by Alola's traditions and therefore band together to disrupt them, taking things too far. Neither team has any real plan for ultimate power or destruction like earlier teams do. They aren't evil. Yet they still greatly affect the Gen 7 games in positive ways, and I think if you thought them as lesser because they don't pose that much of a threat misses the point. Saying "evil teams" declined after Flare does such a disservice to the Gen 7's pretty compelling antagonists.

[@ToxicTaka]

Youre right, but just because they make for good -antagonistic- teams, doesn't mean that they make for a good -villainous- team. I mean, Team Skull helps you against Team Rainbow Rocket in US/UM, so they can't be as evil as the others, right?

[@4wheal]

That also counts for Team Yell who are just Gym trainers that are fans of there leaders little sister they don't do anything wrong the entire game

[@LucarioShirona]

@@4wheal yea, it’s also refreshing seeing Team Yell cheer you on when something fishy is going during the Pokémon League.

[@cinnay99]

@@4wheal I'm not sure how common that viewpoint is, but I personally can't help but see Team Yell as mostly just a worse version of Team Skull. Especially considering the role they have in the overall story.

[@dededemanreal]

@@cinnay99 theyre fun characters but awful villains gen 7 gets approval though

[@aerrae5608]

The thing about Team Rocket is that they're essentially a mafia, unlike some of the teams after them they're implied to kill people. With that they're also implied to have a hold over their respective region, spreading crime, illegal goods, money, and power to their allies and punishment and death to their enemies. Considering it's a kids game though, they'd never show it on screen, but it's very clearly what they're based on and the fact they can essentially do what they want in the region with little subtlety implies they are either powerful or that the people in power are paid off.

[@tsunertoo9149]

I always assumed the government had become weak and team rocket was allowed to grow because of that. I at least suspected that when surge talked about a war. A lot of smaller countries often lose A LOT of resources including man power during wars. Therefore I always assumed the situation was that the war devastated the country and allowed team rocket a foot hold. I always felt it was weird that they had the ability to have crazy amounts of tech until I considered that he was a gym leader meaning despite being leader of the evil team he was someone highly influential. This made me think he gained power during the war and used it create ir hijack compounds and facilities that perhaps at one time would have contributed to the war but he now uses to create drugs and weapons that only his group can create thanks to their military grade equipment. This made me suspect he was a weapons dealer during the war, but business was so good that he refused to stop after it, becoming a gang leader but having the same level of power and influence of a high ranking government official due to his background and previous occupation with the government having lost too many resources to properly stop him.

[@rockfan243]

I think you're absolutely right Team Rocket is a perfect balance evil team and a great antagonist. They don't just commit Petty crimes that are implied in this video if you actually go back and look and read Around It is heavily implied that they kill people and they also steal and kill Pokemon as it was straight up said they killed the cubones mother creating the Marowak ghost in the Pokemon Tower not only that but we see them break into people's house steal things take over radio tower and Giovanni their leader was a gym leader which if black and white lore is anything to go by the gym leaders actually have a lot of responsibilities and control in the region and they did create one of the most powerful Pokemon in the world I'm pretty sure Mewtwo and it's megas are only beaten by rayquazar and it's Mega and also eternities but that's kind of cheating because you don't really get to use eternity's final form. It's is also great to not have crazy world distraction goals.......little over the top

[@megamillion5852]

Yep, Team Rocket is still the most authentic and meaningful evil team because they're based on a very real issue. It's clear that by gen 3, GameFreak had no idea where else to go but the extreme...and the results are less than stellar. I think the insistence on always having an evil team is silly and unecessary, anyway. But why does every group regard themselves as "team x?" That consistency feels so wrong, and unrealistic. Other evil teams don't base themselves off Team Rocket, so why that connection? Only because Team Rocket was *Team* Rocket, I imagine.

[@rockfan243]

@@megamillion5852 agreed and personally I believe chairman Rose in Gen 8 was a terrible missed opportunity the entire idea of exposing a corrupted Pokémon League to show that the entire region was controlled by an evil organization from the beginning of the game and maybe Leon having issues of realizing he was manipulated from the start of his own journey to be a pawn for the chairman would have been an amazing story heck I even think it would have been amazing if the player did an initial championship battle with Leon where the game forces you to lose to keep the "undefeated" champion in power and even Leon realizing that he wasn't actually that good of a trainer in the first place but chairman Rose was manipulating the entire Pokemon League in gym Challenge from start to finish to keep himself in power. Even some of the gym leaders could be corrupted so much missed potential but no he has to go and wake up a legendary Pokémon.....AGAIN that nearly caused the destruction of the entire region ten thousand years ago because Galler might maybe have an economic crisis in a thousand years from now it kind of just made the entire thing pointless heck even having the crisis with the power being an actual current issue and not something the chairman was worried about happening currently and not 10 Generations from now would have made the story a little better.

[@eazybuxafew]

They Take people and Pokémon out

[@blakdeth]

The patheticness of team skull, with the aether foundation twist was actually pretty entertaining. I super wish they didn't do it a second time, and I'll be extremely disappointed if they do it again in gen 9.

[@emperorcubone]

Yeah, I don't know why they thought repeating the exact same thing the very next generation would be a good idea...

[@MagillanicaLouM]

@@emperorcubone they saw the Guzma and Lusamine appreciation and thought "ENCORE!" but none of the audience asked for it

[@austinreed7343]

Macro Cosmos didn’t even have grunts. There also wasn’t a darker villain added for the DLC (though they made up for that by making Volo almost Ghetsis-level depraved)

[@yawninglion1677]

@@MagillanicaLouM I mean, if that's the case they also misunderstood why people liked Guzma and Lusamine. Note that people liked Lusamine less after USUM softened her. People weren't just cheering over twist villains, but well done twist villains with dark motives and writing behind them. In Gen 8, Rose is just... an idiot.

[@MagillanicaLouM]

@@yawninglion1677 Yeah, not even SWSH hater, but... Rose aint it lol

[@TheMurphination]

THANK YOU FOR ACKNOWLEDGING MALVA!! I was JUST having a similar thought recently about how you technically “encounter” MALVA periodically throughout the campaign due to her being a newscaster, but how rad would it have been if you encountered her as an Admin, and she hinted at the fact that she would see you later at the Elite 4? I would have loved that

[@emperorcubone]

Yep, would've been so cool to have a twist like that, but instead it was so understated that many people probably missed it the first time around...

[@justjoannak]

Agreed

[@DarkPuck]

Team Flare really is like the rest of Gen 6: full of potential that somehow fell flat. Even mega-evolution feels somehow underutilized, especially when you compare it to ORAS. a smart move would have been to ditch the girl band in favour of Malva’s one-two punch. her elite 4 fight could double as her last attempt at revenge

[@emperorcubone]

This is why we needed Z version! Maybe one day...

[@Kage57]

@@emperorcubone too bad bw2 flopped so game freak might not do sequels anymore, or third version games

[@heavydonkeykong5190]

Reading this made me realize that Mega Evolution was more relevant in ORAS than XY.

[@DarkPuck]

@@heavydonkeykong5190 NGL, I didn't realize it until I replayed XY last year.

[@sunilkumaryadav2183]

Irony is that Pokemon x and y considered greatest anime but game fell flat While Pokemon unova considered bad(well not really it is good light-hearted anime i have fun watching it also animation was beautiful) but have one of the best story according to me.

[@VanishEclipse4867]

The sad thing is, Team Flare in the anime was done better than they were in the game as it wasn't Xernias or Yveltal whom they were after but it was Zygarde they were trying to exploit and Mega Evolution Energy was something they were studying and using to put their plans into motion. What makes them even better in the anime was they used the Pokemon League to gather the Mega Evolution energy needed. Heck the same can be said for all the evil teams following that where their anime counterparts were far better written. Team Skull for example in the anime don't even make the attempt to be the supposed bad guys of the series and Guzma is only seen in a bad light because of the way he raises his pokemon and the tactics he uses during Pokemon Battles even though they are the definition of a veteran making quick and calculated decisions. The difference between the evil teams in anime post Black and White was that the anime counterparts are better than the game counterparts which was the opposite of what they were Pre X and Y.

[@justjoannak]

This!

[@jedidude6358]

"The difference between the evil teams in anime post Black and White was that the anime counterparts are better than the game counterparts" Only Guzma was done well in the gen 7 anime. The rest were pretty much lackeys in the background most of the time. Aether foundation was barely any different from their game counterparts. Then we have journeys where team yell is shafted.

[@ganoninthepit]

@@jedidude6358 I wouldn't say Aether was barely any different. Lusamine was made from an abusive monster into a ditzy, but genuinely loving mom and ultimately a dork who turned the main cast into power rangers to deal with UBs, and Faba was the villain if anything. While Lusamine became lovable, I can't say it was for the best, since it throws a whole bunch of plotholes into the Aether Plot taken from the games.

[@hommefataltaemin]

I HATED what they did to Lusamine in the anime. They absolutely destroyed what was supposed to be a complex character filled with madness and grief.

[@MrBrewskiDrewski]

I know this wasn’t the main topic of the video, but the Aether Foundation is one of my favorite teams mainly for Lusamine’s battle theme.

[@emperorcubone]

I thought for sure you were gonna say hair, but her theme is good to!

[@boianko]

She is imo one of the more compelling and menacing characters in the series too. And her actions in the Sun and Moon games do make a lot of sense when you find out about her possible exposure to Nihilego's poison earlier on.

[@robertlupa8273]

Haven't listened to her regular theme yet, but the final battle theme is just beautiful. Especially the piano solo! Definitely one of the best battle themes I've heard in Pokemon.

[@boianko]

@@robertlupa8273 It is so much more intense when you fight her with the theme playing in-game. Makes sense for the only antagonist in the series who actually achieved her goals.

[@Iroh10800]

Team skull and aether foundation are like ultru sun and moon for me. Very underrated. The cutscenes are very annoying but there's so much content in the game and its just very fun imo. And some mechanics are really cool. Personaly I thought z moves and the Mantine surfing to get tms rare candies pp ups and more was so cool and added so much to the game. Also it's easly the hardest main series pokemon game and the toten fights unlike gyms are actualy hard

[@solidskullz5736]

Team skull being less threatening was a nice change a pace for me. Sun and moon is about tradition and what makes Alola special and they stand in direct opposition to that. Plus they’re just really fun, I always enjoyed it when they were on screen and Guzma is one of my favorite characters in the series. They’re much less extreme than past teams but they still stand out even despite that

[@machadragonii145]

Team Skull is in my opinion a great example of not needing much to make something compling there Leader's abuise back round and failure to become a tral capitan not to mention how he and his team where taken advantage of be the Ather foundation and with them generally being a group of outcast who came together it really does make both delightfully campy and understandable antagonists

[@Iroh10800]

Totaly agree team skull was just fun for me even when fighting there theme was like a throw back. Imo Ultru sun and moon are very underrated. Take it the cutscenes and it's a 10 out of 10 imo or maybe 9

[@bidoof367]

team yell is my least favorite cause theyre just a nuisance that doesnt do anything bad and theyre just glorified roadblocks really. they're like a retread of my favorite evil team, being skull, but like significantly worse in every way.

[@blackbullet4254]

They're just Marnie's simps. That's it

[@Loner098]

Honestly, I don't think Team Yell is great, but I can respect your opinion. Edit: Whoops! Thought you said they were your favorite. Sorry.

[@bidoof367]

@@Loner098 im not praising them though im literally saying theyre my least favorite??

[@Loner098]

@@bidoof367 Oops, sorry. Thought you said they were favorite; I guess I was reading too quick. :/

[@gen9hype802]

Team Yell was literally just gym trainers that got in your way. Macros Cosmos wasn’t even a good evil organization imo Rose’s reason for being evil is completely illogical, using Eternatus to solve a problem in the future. It just doesn’t make any sense since the future is unknown unless Rose is psychic and can see into the future. But I doubt that.

I always have felt like XY had an amazing potential, but went completely wasted. The themes of the region are unity and beauty. You have a bunch of friends to travel with, but only Serena/Calem is somewhat decent. The rest of your friends barely do anything through the game. They could have made Shauna a "Friendship/Enjoyment checker" to help you increase those stats and unlock Aime features. Trevor could have been a strategic rival who gave you rewards with certain Pokemon caught (kinda like the professors in Kanto or those NPC who reward you with certain Dex entries) Tierno would have been an amazing move tutor and Super Training teacher with the dance moves, and teach you some roller skate tricks or battle poses. Team Flare did have better explained motives, although they were shown in different media rather than the mainline games. They were pretty much elitists who wanted to repopulate the world as their own pure perfect race. They could have made them need Mega Stones to activate the ultimate weapon back, and at least give every admin their own mega for Lysandre to "cheat" and have a tool that gave him 5 Mega Evolutions to make him extremely threatening. They could have also made only 2 female admins and Xerosic (and of course Lysandre) with more appearances to be more memorable. Also, someone mentioned how Malva having a more challenging Elite 4 encounter (at least on the first run) would have been amazing, and I totally agree. They also forgot to add many things from BW2 that would have been amazing. Easy/Challenge Mode, Medals system, and better Gym Leaders / Elite 4 rematches. Finally, they could have added features from ORAS as DLC for Southern Kalos (Contests, Secret Bases, new Mega Stones) with your friends helping you with them and the 2nd Zygarde story with more Flare encounters.

[@jbz4788]

I came up with the theory that the disbanding of Team Rocket literally caused these more….unusual evil teams to surface. (Nature abhors a vacuum and all that) I won’t go into all of it here but it would explain why in Ruby team Magma was based in Lilycove city. (A now disused Team rocket base)

[@willcole1450]

I'd love to hear the whole theory!

[@jbz4788]

Ok I dug it up from where I wrote it: So I was thinking recently about the “Evil teams” in Pokemon and how they got progressively more ridiculous and dangerous. I suddenly realised that all of the Gen 3 onwards teams only exist because of Red (The Gen 1 protagonist) Team Rocket was a large scale criminal organisation that is shown in game to have a presence in at least Kanto, Johto and the Sevii Islands. Plus in gen 2 a team Rocket grunt from an entirely separate region (Which is later implied to be Unover iirc) so it’s not beyond reason to think Team Rocket was a global crime syndicate. And after the third loss to Red Giovanni just disbands this seemingly global criminal enterprise. Which would cause a power vacuum across the globe and then every (metaphorical) “punk with a gun” wants to become the new Kingpin. And with no one to stop them (we’ve seen how useless police are in this world) they run amok. And after seeing all this chaos caused by events he set in motion Red basically exiles himself to Mt Silver where we find him in Gold/Silver (Or HG/SS)

[@jbz4788]

That was actually a lot shorter than I thought....

[@willcole1450]

@@jbz4788 That's interesting. Do you have any reason why the teams are more unusual, rather than just a replacement crime syndicate?

[@jbz4788]

@@willcole1450 I’d reckon that Team Rocket (mainly Giovanni) kept the crazier individuals from getting any kind of power and without them it’s just a free for all on what kind of person gets power of newly developing teams.

[@alysshart7522]

I love the dichotomy of Team Skull and the Aether Foundation. I wish the relationship between the two teams had been explained a little bit more.

[@emperorcubone]

It is much better than Team Yell/Macro Cosmos...

[@johnofonett8036]

Can you really call it a “downfall” when both of the evil teams in the very next generation are the best evil teams of all time? Both Team Skull and the Aether Foundation - while not being as straight-up villainous as teams from later generations - are the most interesting and memorable imo. One is a foundation built on good will, corrupted by its founder’s descent into madness, the collapse of her family causing her to sink her deeper into her obsession with the Ultra Beasts. This obsession leading her to authorize the creation of a literal genetic abomination with the purpose to fight and capture these creatures. Her mania eventually leads her to literally fuse herself with one of these beasts, resulting in her almost getting herself killed. The other is a team whose only purpose is to go against the system. It’s founder ran away from his abusive father after pretty much losing everything he’d spent his childhood training for and becoming disillusioned with everything he’d once loved. He created a family of his own made up of others like him - misfits and runaways. Deep down inside, all any of them want is to feel respected by their peers. A far cry from “Crazy man wants to capture legendary Pokémon to rule the world/reshape the world in his image cuz reasons.”

[@propheinx2250]

I personally disagree. I find the best evil teams are the ones that are parodies of cartoon evil organizations. I find that Gamefreak lacks the writing ability to do anything more than a team with a good concept handled poorly. They do best when they stick to parodies that don't require exceptional writing skills to do justice.

[@robertlupa8273]

@@propheinx2250 That's an interesting way to look at it.

[@Chickoboy]

In my opinion Team Plasma is the best

[@Jake-ur2wf]

I agree. Sun & Moon had awesome antagonists that didn't follow the generic structure.

[@joshuab3918]

Skull and Aether are good but lack in execution. Team Skull is full of the most fun grunts in the franchise, but the team members just show up randomly to interrupt the plot rather than having anything going on. Po town was memorable but the way it tied into the story was so forgettable. I think they kidnapped some pokemon a couple times? Aether Foundation is also interesting, but as "twist" villains (that were spoiled by the opening cutscene) they weren't relevant until they suddenly were. They lack memorable encounters, and their base is just not that fun to explore. Lusamine and Guzma fights were good though.

[@Jake-ur2wf]

While I totally agree with your take on Flare, to call it a downfall for later generations is overkill. Team Skull was awesome because it gave us something new, which Pokemon struggles to do. And Ather was very interesting as well. Not every game needs a formulaic super evil team to fight. Team Yell was hilarious because of how stupid of a concept it was.

[@AmberMetallicScorpion]

imma go off on a limb and explain why people get team yell really wrong. In the U.K, the country Galar was based on. Football is celebrated nationally, this is also reflected in the Gyms being designed like football stadiums, and with one of the starters being designed like a footballer. so it makes sense that team yell would be the way they are. super devoted fans who are mostly harmless but really annoying to deal with. Team yell represents the toxicity that comes with the football fanbase here and it's done extremely tastefully in my opinion. It also makes sense that they aren't the villains of the story, cause as annoying as football fans are here, they aren't gonna cause too much harm, whereas people running large businesses, people like chairman rose, are the ones causing the public to be miserable

[@topdog23100]

Team Flare is definitely my least favorite evil team in Pokémon, and although I do like Team Skull and Team Yell, they’re not really much of a threat. The Aether Foundation is fine, I guess, but it’s still not as good as the evil teams from generations 1-5 in my opinion, and the other evil team from Sword and Shield (I forgot the name of it, it’s been a while since I’ve played Sword and Shield), is rather forgettable. But yeah, the evil teams have definitely gone downhill after gen 5 in my opinion. Anyways, great video, Emperor Cubone!

[@emperorcubone]

It's not even like I hate Team Flare, really if anything I don't give them much thought at all, but I suppose your most forgettable evil team would still be considered your least favorite...

[@Xinoehp124]

Flare’s my least favorite too but at least the battle music was great

[@cranberryjuice1005]

Gen 6 and 8s evil teams were mediocre at best, but the two Gen 7 evil teams had so much personality and reason (especially with team skull; they joined team skull to stop people from completing the island challenge because they themselves could not. they were failures, and tried to stop anyone who tried to prevail because they’re cowards).

[@Jdudec367]

Eh...Flare really isn't that bad honestly. The Aether Foundation is good and better then some past evil teams arguably.

[@Jdudec367]

@@cranberryjuice1005 Eh...Team Flare isn't that bad.

[@babel_UV]

team flare wanted to use the ultimate weapon to destroy the ugly people with Yveltal, but with Xerneas the weapon had the objetive of beautifying everyone

[@groudonor12]

In fact he ends up wanting to destroy everyone, he ends up says in his last monologue that he doesn't care anymore.

[@babel_UV]

@@groudonor12 Yeah because he becomes unable to control the legendary

[@LiveHedgehog]

There was a difference between their plans in the games? I never really paid attention enough to the story to remember lol

[@babel_UV]

@@LiveHedgehog well yeah, after all the Legendaries are so conceptually different their objectives had to be different, but since they're achieved the same way, there isn't much plot divergence

[@frownyclowny6955]

No Lysandre said he would erase Pokémon by creating a new world, he’s just a bootleg Cyrus

[@joaocisne556]

to me, the evilest villain team was Cypher, from the Game cube games

[@Vigriff]

Agreed.

[@5ashll303]

They’re pretty cool. But I find the grunts and admins pretty forgettable. Mirror b is the most memorable.

[@emperorcubone]

While I was only looking at the mainline games, you're not wrong...

[@joaocisne556]

@@emperorcubone that is a fair point

[@joaocisne556]

@@5ashll303 but their MO is scary

[@marshallteach9006]

Honestly I don't care enough about evil teams to have a least favorite one, but Team Skull is definitely the best in my opinion. They are a lot of fun, and you can empathize with them. They're not trying to destroy the universe or anything, they're just a bunch of marginalized people sticking together in order to survive, and being rebellious while following a leader that is secretly as flawed and lost as they are. Guzma's still a big child seeking attention and respect from adults, and Lusamine took advantage of this. I feel for the guy, I know he has a good heart.

[@5ashll303]

100% agree.

[@groudonor12]

It's sad how late we get to know Team Skull and Lusamine takes away any attention to care about Guzma. This unfortunately is what makes Team Skull the WORST team, they should've stuck with a further detailed plot on Guzma instead of WASTING their time on another PARENT and CHILD plot.

[@PeterGriffin11]

Team Skull is the best evil team in Pokémon I love how over the top they are and the Aether Foundation is probably 2nd and Team Plasma 3rd.

[@Daragausthedragon]

Team plasma was definitely my favorite. As a kid they were the most impactful being from my first Pokémon game and having such a good twist. I also loved how following the main game, the sequel directly continues the story and has the old team plasma battling the new one

[@LibertyLocalizer]

Team Skull is great imo. Yeah, it's not a threat, but that's that the other team is for. Splitting the goofy hooligan and serious villain types into 2 different teams works really well. You get a nice balance and both teams feel pretty consistent.

[@emperorcubone]

Team Skull lacks points in threat, but definitely has high marks for entertainment value!

[@TheAstrobiologistOW]

I was absolutely enthralled by Lysandre, AZ, and the Ultimate Weapon, but Team Flare itself was quite forgettable. Kinda odd, really.

[@cormorantcolors]

I think the issue is that they seem to want to make a Pokémon story that isn’t centered around an evil team, but aren’t willing to just make that leap. The team’s involvement in the actual plot has been going down pretty linearly, which in this video was the main factor for them being “worse”. I don’t think Team Rocket is better than Team Skull/The Aether Foundation because you have to battle through a bunch of Rocket Grunts, in fact I personally like that a lot less, but gen 1 and 2’s stories, gen 1 especially, had the team as a central focus. Gen 7, on the other hand, is about adventuring with your friends, taking on the island challenge, meeting new people, fighting Ultra Beasts, etc etc. Like those things ended up tying a little to The Aether Foundation at the end, but for the most part the game wouldn’t be worse if the plot were rewritten without them. Note my use of gen 7 as an example though, gen 8 failed to realize that the fake team is actually supposed to be funny and likable, and that the real one is meant to be formidable and at least _connected_ in some way to the overarching plot haha

[@Jdudec367]

Eh...it would be worse without them as without the evil teams in gen 7 that would change up the plot a lot.

[@vesuvius8537]

they actually did in Gen 5. in your travels throughout the region, random NPCs you talk to in different cities are left contemplating on their message or have made up their minds to be for or against team plasma. that somehow gives the player a scope of their influence in the region, unlike some teams where the NPCs are oblivious to them.

[@Jdudec367]

@@vesuvius8537 what teams have the NPCs oblivious to them?

[@vesuvius8537]

@@Jdudec367 for instance, Team Aqua's infiltration of slateport museum seems to have been invisible to the citizens of slateport city, despite having full exposure in public. only 1 or 2 NPCs commented on them.

[@Jdudec367]

@@vesuvius8537 Hm...still some, but ok true.

[@blackattc]

I wholeheartedly agree with everything about Team Flare. IMO, X and Y had so much wasted potential and Team Flare was just the icing on the cake

[@emperorcubone]

"X and Y had so much wasted potential" is their motto I think...

[@nine_tails137]

Honestly, out of all the "evil teams" so far, Team Flare is the most forgettable team I've ever seen. With Team Yell coming a close second. The most interesting bit of Team Yell, was their connection to Marnie. But that's not saying much.

[@georgelabe-assimo4365]

Team Flare was honestly done a lot better in the anime than the games, not gonna lie.

[@nine_tails137]

@@georgelabe-assimo4365 I quit watching the Pokemon anime after gen 5, due to Ash's embarrassing league loss. So I never got to see Team Flare in the anime.

[@XenithShadow]

is team yell even classified as an evil team, the only reasoning would be as a red herring so as not to suspect the other evil team.

[@nine_tails137]

@@XenithShadow I was thinking the same thing honestly. They're basically just Marnie's fanclub. Nothing more, nothing less. Hense why I chose Team Flare as the worst "Evil Team".

[@sloshy2412]

@@nine_tails137 the gen 6 anime is a contender for the best pokemon anime and i am not kidding, its crazy how they went from B&W to XY

[@kahboom76]

For Team Flare, Lysander did confront the player and rival about competing for the mega ring instead of sharing it and seeing how the ultimate weapon was formed during a war, I thought his motivation to destroy everyone because he believed no one deserved the beauty of the world because their fighting keeps destroying it

[@robertlupa8273]

Why do people insist on spelling it "Lysander"? It's been consistently spelt as "Lysandre" in all Pokemon-related media. Is it just because of Lysanderoth?

[@yawninglion1677]

@@robertlupa8273 Lysander is just a more common spelling of the name I think.

[@0BucketMask0]

This made me realize I've played almost all the mainline games... Anyway, my favorite team is Skull because they're a bunch of abandoned children taken in by a big scary dude who only wants the best for them because his own family abandoned him for not being perfect as a child. Love my boy Guzma.

[@monkaeyes3417]

I actually really liked team skull. I liked that their goals weren’t huge, or anything at all really. Just a bunch of people doin whatever they wanna do.

[@downsidebrian]

I legit didn't even know that Team Flare had an Elite Four member. I did a lot of A button mashing through that whole game, even my first playthrough.

[@Kage57]

$40 down the drain, can’t really blame the game at that point

[@tobigrantlbart]

If I read the games subtext correctly, the power of the legendaries IS the ultimate weapon. Or more like the power source of those. That's why they had the legendary already and why it was plugged into the Ultimate Weapon in the first place.

[@Leonardovideogoes]

flare is fire that destroys everything around it and at the same time it is fascinating

[@Whale-Shark-Katie]

I will forever defend Team Skull and that’s because they’re freaking hilarious, they’re not meant to be taken seriously, that’s the point, they’re the first evil team to be almost entirely for comedic purposes and I love them for that. Imo Team Skull is the closest we’ve gotten to Jessie, James and Meowth in the games. As for my least favourite, probably Team Galactic, like, unlike Rocket, Magma/Aqua and Plasma, Team Galactic are just not intimidating even when they’re meant to be, I cannot take those designs seriously, heck, at least Team Flare has fun designs. I also consistently forget they exist and confuse them for Team Plasma all the time, overall they’re just very meh in everything

[@Compucles]

Technically, Jessie, James, and Meowth do appear in "Yellow" and both "Let's Go" games...and "Pokémon Puzzle League."

[@remsilvertongue25]

Despite the many problems with Macro Cosmos and Chairman Rose as antagonists, I adore the Chairman's boss fight. Setting foot down in the bowels of the power plant feels like walking into a final fantasy boss arena, it's great. The setting was good, the music was bomb, and his body language during the fight told us a whole lot more about him than the rest of his story appearances put together.

[@Lusius8879]

as a Lysandre Fan (and I guess Xerosic was cool as well). You seem to have missed a couple of points regarding team flare plot that at least make Lysandre better. The grunts, admins and 4 cyber chicks are still really bad, tho. So let me quickly go over this. First off, Lysandre's plan. "Making the world more beautiful" is indeed his main plan, but he doesn't mean actual beauty when talking about this. He, on multiple occasions, talks about how messed up the world is. People fighting wars, people stealing stuff, people hurting eachother. The root of this, in Lysandre's eyes, is effectively 2-fault. First off, overpopulation. More people = more items required. But the demand will keep growing, while the production will have a limit. This means there will be less items than required for every human alive, which will result in people having to fight or steal to get what they need. The second reason, is human ego. Many humans focus purely on themselfs and take whatever they want for their own good (effectively, Lysandre would hate team rocket). Humans are often unable to share or give. They will only do what they want and they have no regard for others. It's this darkness, evil and egocentric nature that, in Lysandre's eyes, makes the world ugly. The conflict, hatred, egotistical nature and fighting is what he is against. So his solution: find people he deems worthy and not-ruined, take thim in for safety and remove everyone he sees as a cause of the ugliness in the world. This, at minimum, will remove the overpopulation, and assuming he picks the correct people, will also cure the conflict, hatred etc. He's effectively embodying "when faced with a choice between 2 evils, there are no winners". Secondly; mega evolution. One part of this, is Lysandre having a mega on his team. To be able to mega-evolve, a strong bond between trainer and pokemon is needed. So him having a mega exists to show that he doés truly care and his pokemon are truly on his side. But besides that, it also relates to their plot. As Lysandre states in 1 conversation: you had to fight for that mega ring you own. Mega rings are in high demand, but are extremely rare. It's the perfect example of what Lysandre believes to be the cause of this ugliness he sees. It created a conflict/fight. After this fight, only 1 of you got the ring. The person that lost, as a result of this, ended up being sad. Also a quick note is that it is highly hinted at that Lysandre is related to AZ. So there is that connection, I guess. Also, Lysandre is the driving force behind Kalos's succes as a region. He tried to make the world beautiful by offering the products on high demand and generally being a good human. Yet he noticed that this was impossible to achieve in the current world. Basically what I am trying to say is; Lysandre is a great villain. The game just does a poor job at portraying it. But that's at fault of the game, not him, as all the elements ARE in the game. That being said... the grunts are clearly not aware of Lysandre's true intentions, the admins are basically glorified grunts with 0 identity and the 4 cyber chicks are bad admins at best (as I only vaguely remember Mable, the one at the Abomasnow cave. Aliana, Bryony and Celosia are not memorable at all). Great leader, absolutely atrocious rest of the team (barring Xerosic, as he was made memorable by his personality and the Looker missions)

[@saphiriathebluedragonknight375]

Lysandre is an underrated villain. He's held back by his team. If only we got a Z version.

[@Lusius8879]

@@saphiriathebluedragonknight375 i think team flare somehow actually helps lysandre in some way. Lysandre wants to get rid if exocentric people doing bad stuff for own gain. Meanwhile 90% of his team is using Lysandre and his ideals and goals for their own gains. They somehow add to lysandre's 'wholesome' side, showing more how he really believes his views and gets blinded by saving the world.

[@barrybend7189]

From playing sword and Shield both evil teams suffer from overzealousness . With team yell it basically British football hooligans which is fine. With Macros Cosmos and it's leader Rose it's quite literally going ocd on one goal and being too blind to what could go wrong ( solving an energy crisis for the people yes, using a legendary that nearly destroyed the world just after Kalo's destructive war is another).

[@hms.fortune5829]

I didn’t even remember that team flare had an elite 4 member on their side THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN HUGE

[@emperorcubone]

Yep, should have been, but instead it was a big nothing...

[@bornanime3255]

I actually think the liberation effort aligns with the elite 4 castle take over thing. Think about it. The Pokemon League is the final trial for every Pokemon trainer that engages in battles. It's the reason we as the player travel from town to town battling gym leaders and random trainers. It's to get strong enough to take them down. You're constantly being told you have the makings to challenge the League and become the champion of that region. In alot of ways the elite four represent the main pillar of the Pokemon battles, which they are against. So by conquering that you're creating an intimidation factor by showing that your organization is above it all by defeating the very best the corrupt system has to offer. It's a power move. It also would help in convincing people to free their Pokemon when they know that you're part of the organisation that took down the strongest trainers in the region. Team Plasma has also been shown to use fear and criminal means to get what they want, so I don't think it's a stretch for the grunts to be on board with the whole castle elite four take over thing. From the grunts POV it's just a matter of convincing yourself of the grander picture.

[@alphabetsoup6837]

My thing with flair and XY as a whole is that it needed Z. There was a ton of potential in those games and power construct Zygarde showed greater things ahead, but we never got that enhanced version. Maybe the work load of converting everything to 3D was too much to put extra effort in a third game, maybe they put all of their stock into ORAS(which are fantastic games) and felt they didn’t have time to work on a third and instead started on Gen 7. I just feel XY had a lot left to be explored and expanded upon and we never got to see that realized. Maybe one day Kalos will be remade and we’ll see a proper Pokémon Z, but until then, we just have to wonder what might have been.

[@Veelofar]

I’ve heard the argument that they didn’t have enough fire types that seemed evil, but I counter that with “This was a new gen, why didn’t they just MAKE EVIL LOOKING FIRE TYPE POKÉMON?!”

[@emperorcubone]

Yeah, that's like not making a Flygon Mega because they couldn't think of one; you're gonna let a creative block make an inferior product?

[@Veelofar]

@@emperorcubone honestly, I’m not sure how they had a creative block there. Fire is so commonly associated with evil in so many cultures, including quite a few of Japan’s own mythological creatures, that it should’ve been easier to make an evil looking fire type than a not evil looking one.

[@jamcalx]

Lysander was a Bond Villain who basically was out to do the plot of Moonraker, resetting the world with only the best, brightest, rich, and "beautiful" in inheriting the world cleansed of the unworthy who tarnish it with their "ugliness".

[@emperorcubone]

Shouldn't we have waited to use the Bond villains in Galar??

[@inkling1377]

I think Lusamine was intrigued about the ultra beast/wormholes at least in sun and moon, because she lost her husband to one. In the ultra games, realizing how dangerously potent the ultra beast are, she wanted to stop Necrozma from traveling to Alola

[@sunstar8782]

Would have worked even better if USUM was a sequel

[@charliesullivan9211]

Lusimine is GREAT in sun and moon - she’s a sadistic, manipulative narcissistic obsessed with beauty and driven mad by the loss of her husband. Then in Ultra Sun and Moon, they make her more of anti villain - she means well but is still cruel and sadistic, until she’s redeemed by the end of the game. What doesn’t make sense though is that in the ultra games she still has her chamber of frozen pokemon, which is ultimately where the character falls flat, at least in the ultra games

[@videakias3000]

Idea for an evil team(and story for a pokemon game in general): The evil team is mafia who instead of trying to go for word domination/destruction/some other kind of sociopolitical reform they do anything in their power to silence people from talking to court and they are also smuggling masterballs in the black market. Most if not all of them are not interested in the game's legendery(which in my oppinion should be justice themed legendery). It would be cool if the leader of the evil team was revealed in a plot-twist(I know that twist villains are not that great but with this context this twist would work). If anyone at gamefreak is reading this comment fell free to copy-paste the plot,no need to credit me.

[@patinhoquemoralogoali9280]

Isnt...isnt this Giovanni with extra steps?

[@videakias3000]

@@patinhoquemoralogoali9280 No....team rocket was just kidnapping people's pockemon selling slowpoke tails and.....yeah okay they are basic team rocket with extra steps.so what?

[@danielbroome5690]

You make me want to live in a world where team flare all use pokemon like Furfrue wearing different styles of clothing.

[@65firered]

5:25 To be fair, if you're a grunt all you do is follow orders and it seems N didn't have enough pull to keep them in line regardless.

[@emperorcubone]

Sure, but if they believed in the cause wouldn't they see N's ways (and success) and want to follow him vs blindly trusting orders from the top that make no sense in liberating Pokemon? They could all be that naive, sure, it just seems unlikely...

[@65firered]

@@emperorcubone I hear you but I think that's as far as Game Freak thought about it.

[@machadragonii145]

11:09 love how you randomly included Bowser's logo with all the others I guess they'd be called Team Koopa a grunts would use Fire and Dragon types

[@emperorcubone]

No no, they'd use turtle and mushroom Pokemon!

[@machadragonii145]

@@emperorcubone Or they could do that or grunt's could stick to types I'd mentioned and have the Admins and Browser use Mushroom & turtle Pokémon

[@h.hamis007]

11:09 Ah yes my favorite Pokemon evil team. Team Koopa

[@mask_vids9834]

My favorite is team plasma. I remember a video where it’s discussing them as the ultimate antagonist to the entire premise of Pokémon. A counter to the idea Atleast in N’s existence. You could tell some of the members didn’t truly believe in the cause but were just playing along knowing that one day very soon they would be the foot soldiers of a new empire over the region. The leader’s lie and his desperation to win makes him feel like the goal is something he’s wanted his entire life and that protecting or liberating pokemon never mattered to him gives the story that pokemons tried to present countless times that your relationship with your pokemon is important and that you have to respect pokemon- Atleast with the fight against N. Who does believe in the philosophy that he was lied to about.

[@MrSupersmash93]

The real question is are the Spanish Inquisition going to be the evil team in Gen 9.

[@emperorcubone]

I don't expect it to be...

[@MrSupersmash93]

@@emperorcubone fool! Nobody expects team Inquisition!

[@farhanfarr8368]

Alternate title : "Team Flare is the worst team ever in Pokemon Series, Lets Bully them!"

[@luisadolfothewolf7042]

Lol, the Bowser logo at the end Also my fav evil team is Plasma, both cause I'm bias toward Gen 5, and because N, Ghetsis and Colress are incredible character Grunts might be clods and kinda hypocrites with the free Pokémon cause, but that's kinda like people who repeat a mantra just for the sake of it, then their actions don't follow their speach because of how blind they are to see the true of their ideals (reference completely intended)

[@emperorcubone]

I do think they would have benefitted from having Colress in the first Black and White, but I guess they had to "keep up appearances" even though as you said, they're all hypocrites except for N.

[@BramLastname]

My gripe with team Plasma is that they were built up to be more, They had a lot of potential that was wasted for the sake of shock. I really like the characters individually, but not together.

[@IllegalBones]

I also like them because they actually have a leader who I think is the most evil. In B2W2 Ghetsis wants YOU dead. Personally. He froze over an entire city and yet still wants to kill you personally. The other gym leaders saw everyone, including you, as casualties. But Ghetsis has such a god complex that he wants to personally kill you, to watch you die would bring him joy. I'm sure Giovanni would also feel the same, but Giovanni is a mob boss who potentially even likes his pokemon as he has a Persian he seems to love. Ghetsis has a Hydreigon that has a maxed out frustration. His Pokemon hate him, he makes up a lie and raises a child under that lie that he thinks we should liberate Pokemon, but it was all a sham to make everyone defenseless without their Pokemon, to weaken the people before he started his campaign to rule Unova.

[@shayneholt6846]

Team rocket gen 1:I like it so much potential I love it especially when I heard about the manga just expand Giovanni about the mewtwo project,mr Fuji add Ariana and archer (as his wife and his old crime friend) that his backstory he grow into poverty until he got rich and become an investor into mewtwo project until mr. Fuji didn’t want him to have it because he wants to mass produced masterballs that his behavior was no longer a man of greatness instead of greediness until mewtwo got away his main goal to get the mewtwo that he so deserved to become the most powerful person in the world and stress it that he controls kanto New team rocket (gen2) ok a lot of problems the name get rid of it make it rainbow rocket their motive is stupid to bring back Giovanni no,no,no ok you can but in the different way make him like his rainbow rocket Giovanni corrupted him to not caring for anything but his goal to time travel to erase his first defeat by using celebi to not only conquer kanto and expand to Johto but his foil is not only you and sliver but archer. Archer disappointing I get you admire Giovanni but you also stand out and be your own person what if he’s Giovanni but deranged and has a big ego after they got beaten they blame each other and they fall apart because they have in common they have big egos and had a power struggle archer become so crazy that he was willing to destroy about everything in the future and Giovanni escapes once again into the multiverse and archer escaped except he got arrested for his crimes and Giovanni crimes.arianna broke up with Giovanni and reluctantly wants him back but after he got corrupted she was feared of him until she was free she got redeemed and promised sliver to be a better mother Petrel make him the smarter then he looks and he can mimick any voice like his Pokémon after disband of team rocket he become a voice impression proton just use team rocket for clout but after that he still does it after the disband and blames you for disbanded team rocket Another problem they stop at Johto why stop they should continue to kanto Team magma and team aqua:unrealistic but great I’ll take it although a plot point they should add is gen 3 design as well as with some twins that look similar except not really and their names are different Maxine(gen6 sprite) Maxwell(gen3 sprite) Archie(gen 6 sprite) Archibald (gen 3 sprite) Courtney(gen 6 sprite) Evelyn (gen 3 sprite) Tabitha (gen 3 sprite) Homura (gen 6 sprite) Shelly(gen 6 sprite) Shelby (gen 3 sprite) Fin (gen 6 sprite) Matt(gen3 sprite) So zinnia unites them all because she absolutely controls raquaza and and the two teams can control both Pokémon to create a perfect storm of both extremes it taught us that be moderate Team galactic:great but three problems why did cryus hides his plans,how did he convince people,and why did he not have a full solar system instead of chriom(Pluto),Saturn,Jupiter,and mars and Cyrus (as earth) what happened with Neptune,Venus,mercury, and Uranus are they too lazy to forgot about that we don’t even know why he did it in the first place Team plasma:great team but the second game curse gets you first problem lack of females admins too much sages needs to stand out too remember and add colress in the first game Why can’t n sisters fight you b2 and w2 what’s the point I hope you got something better because I can’t think of nothing Team flare:so much mis potential could use Megas,made their team more stand out,made it use fairy types,you got a elite four member use her,how about the diantha sub point,it fails spectacularly Team skull:heavily disagree i love them nothing Aether foundation:great in the first game but the second game curse keep it and expand upon it but not only battling her in the ultra megalopolis but also ultranercozama that’s it Team yell and macros cosmos:nope shouldn’t be a name at all just make it rose and whatever her name is to control team yell to do their evil bidding and don’t make it rushed use chairman rose powers over people and do the moral that to enjoy the world while you still can because if you keep worrying about the future you will miss the present also no rushing make rose make a deal with piers to save marine for what’s to come and marine being a cool rebel and had romance like Lillie in sun and moon (I know people that will go nuts) Team star:stupid name but great I wish all the plots are connected into together which all points to the a.i a.i controls team star to convince them they are still the good guys no need to disband”

[@DaddyDynastic]

Chairman Rose was so unbelievably unreasonable Honestly it would have been better If he just wanted to control eternatus because of the infinite energy It can create Instead of getting so upset that Leon wanted to wait a single extra day to help him deal with an energy crisis a 1000 years in the future he made the apocalypse happen immediayely so people would have to deal with it immediately Cyrus may have been a madman but at least I believed That he as a character would do what he was doing because of his nihilism Chairman Rose was even more insane but with non conviction He asks for the player's and Leon's help immediately like he didn't know what he was doing would cause the apocalypse even though that was his goal

[@emperorcubone]

But let's be honest, isn't that believable for people who are obsessed with the environment?

[@MajoraOra64]

If you ever spoke with an obsessed globalist, you’d understand Rose is believable. People obsessed with their goals can be rather terrifying especially when they think they’re being a hero.

[@DaddyDynastic]

@@emperorcubone I mean yeah the part the impatience for the most part but to my knowledge they don't usually actively try to speed the Apocalypse up to force everyone to deal with it sooner Maybe him being crazy could have been built up more if everything involving this plot line didn't happen at the end of the game all at once

[@DaddyDynastic]

@@MajoraOra64 Yeah I get that but he just caves so easily It's like all the wind got taken out of his sails the second he got it done which isn't completely unbelievable it's just kinda lame Mad men that go to the lengths that he went to should at least be willing to die by their convictions or see them through but he's barely an obstacle by the time you beat him hes hoping Leon can deal with eternatus And I think it's compounded by the fact that it happens all at once right at the end

[@RadicalKingJames]

I can’t help feeling like the writers pulled their punches with Chairman Rose. He wants to prevent an energy crisis that will happen *1000 years* in the future? Why not make it more imminent, more obvious that Galar was facing the crisis soon? It would have made a great metaphor for our own environmental crisis, and Rose’s desperate measures would at least have the player feel conflicted about stopping him. I think the writers just didn’t want to tackle something that heavy.

[@tk24life]

I feel like Aether Foundation is underrated. For starters, unlike every other evil team, the Pokémon they use are diverse and varied, fitting their role as Pokémon conservationists.

[@gamut_dot815]

team falre just seemed liked the fashion police

[@FTChomp9980]

Team Galactic despite being my favorite fell in Pokemon Platinum when Cyrus got banished in the Distortion World but doing a fanfic on this basically I can see Saturn continue Team Galactic having his own goals in mind to take over Sinnoh. The suits would get cooler looking Sci Fi suits,start using sci fi looking Pokemon like Magnemite and Beeheeyem,and be more in the vain of Neo Team Plasma.

[@Rocket_PC]

Dude forgot to mention how plasma literally made the legendary of the game completely submissive and pretty much nuked a city lol

[@julespowell8906]

I love how this just turned into a Team Flare rant piece.

[@5ashll303]

I don’t, I’ve heard the same complaints over 100 times.

[@julespowell8906]

@@5ashll303 Oh don't misunderstand me. I don't hate Team Flare, I just love that Emperor Cubone went from talking about Evil Teams to just dunking on Team Flare, and I just find the switch amusing. I don't agree with Emperor Cubone with several things, like how he implies that Team Skull and Team Yell are the same thing, when in reality Team Skull was far better handled. (Team Yell wasn't even an evil team. IMO) But thats the beauty of pokemon and its fandom, we all have things that we love and dislike and majority of us shouldn't feel invalid in feeling that way. So TDLR, if you like Team Flare, more power to you. If you hate Team Rocket, more power to you.

[@5ashll303]

@@julespowell8906 good to see another team skull fan. flare they’re okay, but I don’t get why they always get so much hate, especially when their plot, while dumb is about the same level of stupid as others teams. Rocket are okay, but I think they’re so boring in johto, since you don’t fight their boss. It’s more of me being tired of hearing people complaining about the same things over again, since you pretty much know exactly what they’re going to say.

[@julespowell8906]

@@5ashll303 Thats fair. Unfortunely, fandoms, much like humanity, have a tendency to repeat themselves and to gear towards the most outspoken/loud opinions. But, as long as value the things you like and admire the things you adore, than what does it matter what the loud ones think? Just enjoy what you like and don't pay much mind to the things you don't. I loved B/W when it came out and despite everyone complaining, I absolutely fell in love with almost everything about those games at that time. I also despise Infernape with a burning passion and think its ripoff of Blaziken and is the sole reason why Emboar isn't a ground type. BUT I don't let that hatred ruin my enjoyment of the games, I just find the things I like and move on

[@5ashll303]

@@julespowell8906 great motto to live by. Your unova sentiment is exactly me with Alola. Love it to death especially base sun and moon, but all I see is negativity toward it, I definitely do try to not let that stop my enjoying them, if people don’t like them fine, but I won’t say it doesn’t make me sad to see people hate things that bring me so much joy.

[@sephirotten2413]

The xyz anime definitely fixed lysandre and making him a true threat that could end the world

[@marleonka.]

I think what makes a good evil team are a few factors: a) Their reasoning should be at least somewhat defined and sensible to those who follow it b) There should be rivarly or other form of bond between the protagonist and the antagonist c) Memorable chracters besides just the leader My personal favorites are Teams Galactic and Team Skull

[@emperorcubone]

I would agree, I didn't list all of those out but some form of that did factor into the decision...

[@MitchBurns]

If you ask me the only evil team that actually makes sense is Team Rocket. All the other teams are just bad. None of their goals would actually benefit them in any way. Also, I’m surprised no one is calling out Team Yell for being ultra creepy for being a bunch of grown men that simp hard for a 10 year old girl.

[@hbudson1248]

Potential hot take, I actually really liked Team Skull. They're funny, relatively grounded and not too over the top, they took over a whole town and no-one successfully took it back- even you can't drive them out. Plus they're super memorable, Guzma especially

[@emperorcubone]

Oh the entertainment value of Skull is unquestioned; they're hilarious. I do wonder about Po Town though, like... Was it already abandoned to begin with? Cause there's no port and they way far away from any other civilization on the map, so they might have just found it and claimed they "took it over."

[@Ammiteur9]

My least favourite... hmm... I think Team Rocket actually...I did not care about them at any point on my journey, because I was too busy getting lost in Kanto and Jotho. As a result them overtaking that building came pretty much out of nowhere. I guess they're a mafia or whatever, but I feel like getting a connection to them through a plan involving a legendary works better for me. That and I think in Kanto you meet Giovanni once before you beat him forever? I don't know, what makes them my least favourite is just because personally I didn't really feel their presence that much during the game. I think my second least favourite is team Galactic. I didn't really care for the grunts or staff and just found them annoying, but I do like their leader and his story (I think there was a moment in platinum where you need to sneak around the secret base and see him giving a speach to his underlings, that always stuck to me (or maybe it was Ghetsis I don't know anymore)) OK I think I changed my mind. As the antagonistic evil team, I think I like team Magma less than the team that comes next. They work for me better as these still evil but collected people who help setting team Aqua straight. And Team Aqua and their leader work for me better in their role as the people who want to destroy the land, their leader just brings this feeling across better. After that probably the Aether foundation. I like Lusamine as a villain a lot and the concept of aether and their secrets as well, it's just that I like the others more. Next probably Team Plazma from black and white. I don't know why, they are still team plazma, but I don't care for them as much als in black and white two. I think since our rival has more of a past with them in bw2 and I like those games more than bw, it also affected their evil team. Next is team Plazma from black and white two. I just like them a lot better. We get introduced to them through our rival, and I find seeing the aftermath of their evildoings way cooler and the evil of Ghetsis shines through more in my opinion. Almost to the top is team Skull. They shouldn't be here, because it's a little hypocritical of me in regards of what I'm about to say soon, but I think they have a large enough presence in the game, a ton of peraonality a pretty nice backstory and my favourite theme song of an evil team. My favourite team has to be team Aqua from Pokémon Alpha Saphirre. Their leader has such a charming personality that fits their quite silly plan perfectly. The members are awesome as well, I did feel their presence throughout the game a lot, saving the world felt really urgent when it was time to do so and I'm just generally fan of how Gen 6, and especially the drawings of the Pokémon trainers before they battle. It gives everything a unique charm. I have Not played the original Sapphire or Emerald, so I can't say If I would've liked them there as well. Now Team Flare gets their extra little nostalgia spot. I like them a lot, but If I'm being honest, they had so much wasted potential. And as much as I like Gen 8, Team yell doesn't count as an evil Team for me, they're just Marnie's annoying fanclub, and Chairman Rose's evil team came out of nowhere and is pretty laughable.

[@luxrayblast]

What about Cipher's Shadow Pokémon Plot? I know it's "not a core series plot", but, I think it's still important. I think Cipher is a secret branch of the Team Plasma in BW, but, when the plan fell through, they separated 1 year prior to B2W2. Heck, Greevil got his hands on a Lugia and CORRUPTED IT! The President of the Battle Company in B2W2 also wants to "create a machine that allows people and Pokémon to communicate", which is EXACTLY the same kind of invention Dr. Kaminko tried to make, but, it did the reverse and caused Pokémon to go completely mute. In one case, it even causes Senilor to go completely mute because Wobbuffet won't speak anymore! Well, Senilor refuses to talk if Wobbuffet can't yell out "Woooooobbuffet!" anymore. It has nothing to do with Cipher/ Snagem, but, also apparently, Snagem were a branch of Cipher in Colosseum. They were LITERALLY GOING TO WEAPONIZE POKEMON! In fact, who's to say ALL evil teams aren't branches of Cipher? Well, except Skull, Macro Cosmos and Yell. Also, you forgot Team Skull from Generation 4! Yeah, they aren't even from the core UNIVERSE, but, there was a missed opportunity to mention Skuntank, Koffing and Zubat or have them in the Alola games!

[@4wheal]

My favourite team is Cipher from the Orre games as they are very successful and powerful from the get go. I mean in Colosseum they basically alredy run the region in secret from the start and will crush anyone who stands against them either by force or by taking there loved ones hostage. They don't just use Posion and dark types but will use poekmon of all types and have cool grunts and Admins are all cool and powerful

[@dragoon3266]

This might be one of my hotter Pokemon takes, but I legitimately think Team Yell were one of the best antagonistic teams in Pokemon, and I hate that Macro Cosmos undercut them with the same twist that was employed with Team Skull and the Aether Foundation. The fundamental problem with the evil teams is that the critiques they offer of the Pokemon world's utopia are never allowed to amount to anything because the utopia can never be challenged; all opposition to the status quo either has to be misguided or disingenuous in nature. Team Yell aren't even really an evil team, just an antagonistic one. Their opposition to the player makes perfect narrative and mechanic context: they support a different person winning the Galar League and are engaging in hooliganism to prevent other contenders in that League. This roots them back into what is meant to be a core narrative justification for the player, and once the player has beaten Marnie they have mechanical context for why Team Yell opposes them - they are clearly stronger than her. The only antagonistic team that comes close to making any sort of sense is Team Rocket, because they also don't present any serious critique of the utopia that falls flat; they are plainly and openly self interested and are not shy about it.

[@wolfzend5964]

Personally I feel Team Flare was done dirty purely because X and Y were more nostalgic and gimick-driven after the backlash against Gen 5. Less story and more pokemon options, and easier means of training your Pokemon via the EXP share, a shiny new gimmick that gives 2 Mega evolutions to two of the, at that time, most popular pokemon, and just trying to put too much spice and *flare* over substance and interesting story. Though I'm not going to complain regarding things like Az, Emma and the concept of a Mega Evolution, even if I find megas to have somewhat aged a bit poorly in comparison to other gimmicks such as the Z moves and Dynamaxing. That being said, I feel like X and Y would've made for a much better soft reboot of the Pokemon Anime, Team Flare being more fleshed out, such as having an admin for each direction of Kalos, a northern, southern, Eastern and western base that plays an important role. Lysandre using his influence and partnered with Malva as recruitment for Team Flare as a cover to hide their real ambitions. A perfect example. Lysandre created two Team Flares, an outer one where "normal" people sign up for, acting like the Aether Foundation and trying to help Pokemon and habits being changed or destroyed by human involvement (like how Luminoise City had a blackout because too much energy was used and they need to expand the powerplant to keep up, a power plant that is threatening Pokemon habitats and the outer Team Flare is trying to stop) Meanwhile we have the real team flare, those fully brainwashed as followers of the "Last Resort" measure. Lysandre, having connections with Sycamore and learning about the Legendary Pokemon and Malva being an Elite 4 Member, could better locate the Legendary Pokemon and the Ancient Weapon. Xerosic being in charge of repairing it and the other four admits being the ones who control their outer groups to keep eyes off of Lysandre and Malva's work. In the end, it breaks down into a war within Team Flare, Lysandre and Malva declaring a "new age" of prosperity by eliminating all humans outside of their inner-circle of Team Flare with Yuvetal. Then they revive the wilderness using Xerneas to claim the resources as their own with no worry of over-population or resource depletion. I don't know, just throwing ideas out there to see what sticks.

[@thesourpatchkidd579]

It’s largely because pure evil is out dated and complex, layered, “they went about it wrong but they had a point” is in. Which is fine, except that’s a little tricky to pull off when you’re watering it down and packaging it up to market towards kids. We still present kids with a “black and white” view of the world so complex villains who are more misguided or crazy rather than pure evil conflicts with that, so they’re walking this tightrope between the two and they’re a little clumsy with it.

[@AlexDayz]

They handles team Flare way better in the Adventures Manga. It’s been a while since I read it but from what I do recall it was pretty great, they even brought back Blue and did have Malva have an impact more than the story and even implying the demise of Lysander and Malva. The Manga also expands a ton on some of the earlier evil teams such as Team Rocket having several gym leaders under its wing such as Koga, Sabrina, and Lt. Surge. They also had the Mask of Ice who took control of Team Rocket for a while. And that’s not even mentioning the Elite Four being Evil as well. Another one they did pretty great was Archie and Maxie especially in the Emerald and ORAS arc where it’s heavily implied there’s two of them (even the poster you get from the Adventures Artbook seems to confirm this maybe). The Adventures Manga is super underrated

[@cosmicspacething3474]

I have an idea for a quick rewrite of team Flare: maybe their plan isn’t to destroy the entire world, but to rid the world of what they deem to be imperfections. The flare aesthetic could represent death (burning down the flawed in the world) and life (the beauty that rises from the ashes) which ties them to the Legendaries. Maybe mega evolution could even play a part in their path to a perfect idealized world. Different team members could have slightly different ideas of what an ideal world would be too.

[@redtexan7053]

Team Rocket: Basically The Mafia Team Aqua/Magma: Eco Terrorists Team Galactic: Death Cult Team Plasma: Political Extremists Team Flare: Death Cult (French) Team Skull & Yell: Hoodlums Äther Foundation: Mad Scientists Macro Cosmo: Capitalism

[@shadowdragonlord2295]

The last two evil teams were more like punks than actually being evil. We definitely need a more destructive team for SV.

[@aaravdiwakaristhebest]

I think they should be taking over the region and control people

[@emperorcubone]

Or at the very least another secret "real" evil team to show up at the last minute...

[@boianko]

Team Skull were on Aether's payroll as is later revealed in the raid on Aether Paradise. Considering the fact they are essentially a bunch of misfits who wrre ostracized due to their non-conformity with the culture surrounding the island trial, they aren't really meant to be threatening, just kind of tragic and lovable. The Aether foundation is the real "evil team" of the series.

[@shadowdragonlord2295]

@@emperorcubone I'm honestly getting tired of the "secret evil team" twist.

[@Watch-0w1]

@@shadowdragonlord2295 more than blowing up the world?

[@robinedwards462]

I enjoy your content man, watching bird keeper Toby got me into watching you.

[@emperorcubone]

Why thank you! Toby is great!!

[@dandyspacedandy]

i dont necessarily need them to be evil, i need them to be antagonists. everything after that falls on how well they're written imo

[@bugs7253]

Team Star in the newest games seems to be the silliest. But I did enjoy the “mini game “ of running through their respective camps with three of your Pokémon out in the open. I wish we could replay each of those battles in the post game.

[@toastywozzy]

5:22 recently played platinum and the galaxy grunts were also definately not in on the cause. Most of them saying things like "i dont know what the plan is"

[@WhatIsMyPorpoise]

I kind of like that about team galactic. It makes it plausible. With galactic ads everywhere, team galactic members just came off as overly zealous loons from that big power company. And that mostly harmless image is maintained, right up until the plans begin. Cyrus, a total sociopath, abhors human bonds and manipulates trust, lying to everyone « You will have a new universe », to gather naive followers when really wanting to a universe to himself, separate from all emotion. Even the galactic leaders only realize they have been betrayed at the last second, because they can no longer do anything to impede him at that point. Cyrus is a cool evil characterin the games for that, simply because he is so emotionless about it all, and is the best planner amongst all teams. The simultaneous attack on the lakes to quickly build the tool to take control of the legendaries with the collected power from all power plants. I dunno, I just respect that.

[@KingBanjo1217]

My least favorite evil team is Team Star. It’s just a bunch of kids playing hooky. Nothing evil, not even pranks like Team Skull or Team Yell.

[@jessegartung294]

What about Team Ciper? Also Temtem tried to make a evil. But they fail because all we got was a professor who decided a new type is superior and decided he wanted to crown himself king. I know it’s confusing but it’s true. They did have a neat concept for a villain about someone who wanted to build a Mon army but then the higher ups saw Pokémon Brick Bronze and decided that what make the evil team good was the twist.

[@Retro_Red]

I think Emperor Cubone was doing main series games

[@jessegartung294]

@@Retro_Red yea but I can’t wait for his review of Temtem

[@ericosb4503]

You forgot Team Sky! How dare you!

[@BrianStorm742]

Call Gen 1 overrated all you want, but Team Rocket will forever remain the best evil team. Their goals and methods are grand enough to be a genuine roadblock but grounded enough for the type of game Pokémon is.

[@tomfooIeryz]

@@charnalk5572 facts

[@lemonaids5689]

id say youre blinded by nostalgia. gen 5 is better

[@BrianStorm742]

@@lemonaids5689 my first Pokémon games were literally Black and White but go off

[@10kwithzerobitches20]

@@lemonaids5689 now thems some facts

[@JJSSBU]

* sad Cubone noises *

[@BAM_RADICAL]

Team Flare is definitely my least favorite but I'd say my favorite is Team Skull. Guzma is one of my top favorite Pokemon characters and I relate to him a lot about being an outcast and him gathering up all the other outcasts and giving them a place they belong is really sweet. I never saw them as "evil" because they're not. They're just a group of misunderstood delinquents and that more down to earth feeling makes me like them more. And I also just like their style and how the grunts walk and move.

[@sadistic_key]

Rocket acts like a mafia. But aqua, magma, Plasma, flare and aether act more like a terrorist organisation. But flare did fall flat, aqua and magma didn't make it to complete their ambitions (would be a good plot twist if it worked but it's a kids game), plasma split in two in B2W2 after BW that became somewhat disappointing because it would be nice to come across the half that follow N's ideals as an evil team as well as the Ghetsis side of the team. Aether was a good team but for me it got confusing after the ultra beasts were introduced. But the best team in my opinion is Plasma, but flare will be a favourite of mine.

[@SunnyDes]

6:20 love how it spells GRAMPS and you show my man Oak :'D

[@LisaAnnOberbrunner]

I think each of the "evil" teams had their good and bad points. Team flair was funny because of how ridiculous they were.

[@hibikuokudan]

Actually, Lysander's goal makes sense, he's like Thanos. Thinks that humans are using up too many recourses, and that's ruining the world. So he wants to kill everyone, to keep the world from being ruined more

[@Littledog0808]

I miss the Orre Games; Colosseum and Gale of Darkness

[@joaocisne556]

I did mention them, to me they have the evilest team of all, Cypher

[@BulbaCPG]

As someone who's first pokemon game they played was x and y i can tell you for a fact that i dont even remember a single thing about team flare.

[@shadowmarauder6033]

The one thing I hate about every evil team is they all use the same pokémon, even though each come from different regions and goals, and most likely have different taste as well.

[@emperorcubone]

YES! Thank you; not everybody needs to use Golbat, Grimer and Houndoom! Even Aqua and Magma used these when they had plenty of other options. Neither one of them ever used a Whiscash despite its typing being perfect for both and introduced IN that region!

[@shadowmarauder6033]

@@emperorcubone exactly! They make teams with specific themes(land, space, fire), yet never use pokémon that fit them(trapinch, bronzong, litleo). This is why I prefer the teams of the aether foundation over the other evil teams.

[@jg2096]

I won't lie out of all the evil teams the most memorable and intimidating was Guzma. The way he got in Kukui's face and the music when he entered was like "no ladies and gentlemen, this isn't Kansas anymore." He's one of the few villains that got me hyped to see. And his second was really cool too. She genuinely cared about those misfits. Maybe not the most evil but definitely memorable

[@emawerna]

I like the idea that you find out a powerful organization like Macro Cosmos is in fact an evil team and that Team Yell isn't an evil team at all. There is a difference between people who antagonize you personally (like Team Yell) and people who are evil in general (like Macro Cosmos). I also like how you couldn't tell from the beginning which is which. Team Yell are music fans who love their local heroes Piers and his sister Marnie. They hope to further Marnie's career as a pokemon trainer by obstructing you. In actuality, most other trainers in the game are also trying to block you from becoming champion as well. The other trainers are just more polite and not wearing matching outfits. Macro Cosmos is simply a more successful version of Team Rocket. They've already taken over. According to the game, Rose designed and developed the city of Wyndon itself. "Developed" implies political power of some kind. Rose's concern about the long term demand for electricity also matches up with the concerns of a political authority figure. Even if he isn't the Mayor of Wyndon, he is at least a very influential promoter and marketer of Wyndon. You stop Chairman Rose's crazy scheme, but have you actually done anything about Rose's organization? Leon takes over Chairman Rose's duties as Chairman of the Pokemon League, but this is a role the Chairman appears to have been grooming Leon for already. The chairman role is separate from the role of president of Macro Cosmos and any political power he might have as the "developer" of Wyndon. When Rose said he'd turn himself over to the authorities, did he actually mean that he was going to go over to city hall to sit at his desk there? He offered up that solution too quickly for that not to be the case. As the "proper authority" he chose to turn himself into, I'm sure he'd tell his receptionist not to let you, Hop, Piers, or Leon into his office.

[@ToxicTaka]

I was in an extremely angsty point in my life when I played through X and Y, so despite having little to no relevance in the plot, I wouldnt say Team Flare is my least favorite, especially since Lysandre's theme took the leitmotifs from the regular Team Flare theme and cranked the edge factor up. The way I saw their motivations was that Lysandre saw the beauty within the world marred by ugliness, and, seeing how life continued after Az fired the great weapon the first time, decided that wiping the slate clean was the best way to go about this. This makes the brief exchange between Diantha and Lysandre make a lot more sense to me as Diantha represents letting life happen and not trying to force things, and Lysandre is more 'nah: reset button', which plays into how Az feels guilty about firing the weapon. Anyhow, I really dislike Magma and Aqua, but really only because it just seems like they don't have any idea of what they are actually doing (as evidenced when you confront them in Sootopolis after they awaken the Legendary wreaking havoc on Hoenn).

[@dychrisshandonsmith1242]

Keep it up on your work and this video and channel I ❤️ this video and channel I ❤️ Pokemon all franchise Thanks you for your video and channel Love yourself first and most Believe in yourself Quitters never win and winners never quit Don't give up and never give in Ignore those who try to discourage you Hang on to your dreams Take control of own destiny Take care of yourself Keep moving forward Stand up for yourself Stand tall and be brave Stay strong Act of kindness people

[@benmorris9310]

While I knew she was in team flare, I never noticed that the e4 lady was also the news reporter in kalos, serious wasted potential for all the set up there

[@emperorcubone]

A lot of people missed things about Malva, because they just never made use of her!

[@benmorris9310]

@@emperorcubone complete waste of a character, maybe one day they can have her lead a team flare resurgence or something

[@canisblack]

I haven't seen a lot of your videos but prior to this one I hadn't found one I disliked. This one was a major disappointment with your inability to identify the motivations of the teams. It was especially bad with Team Flare who were very up front with their intent to kill everyone that wasn't Team Flare yet you reduced it to "beauty or something."

[@a-s-greig]

Lysanderoth is my favorite villain boss. His machinations laid undetected for years...

[@Hertaspacestation6980]

I think the evil teams at least should have the decentcy to have a signature type for the team. Rocket: Poison (Because it's still simple) Magma: Ground Aqua: Water Galactic: Psychic Plasma: Ghost/ Dark Flare: Fire Skull: Dark Aether: Steel Yell: Dark/ Poison Cosmos: Steel

[@DeusExProcella]

Why wouldn't Skull be "Bug" when Guzma is (effectively) the Bug Trial Captain?