The Duality of Smash Ultimate

[@PlayMadness]

So what does a round-by-round breakdown of a single New York tournament have to do with the question of "is Ultimate dying?"

[@farewell418]

My guess is the Steve ban and increased view rate than average can “prove” something but Umebera 10 with a Steve and MiYa grand finals still had more views than LMBM so I still don’t get the videos point

[@hunbi1875]

​@AbstractVen0m that's because Japan has a generally larger viewbase who cares more about their region.

[@hunbi1875]

​@AbstractVen0m that's because Japan has a generally larger viewbase who cares more about their region.

[@nathanlevesque7812]

The people forwarding that idea have nothing to offer. It's just doomsaying bc they don't like certain characters.

[@nathanlevesque7812]

That's an excuse and a bald assertion, because to date absolutely zero evidence of viewership issues has been provided. @@hunbi1875

[@LetsBeReasonablepodcast]

disappointed this wasn't a video essay when the title, thumbnail, and intro set up for that.

[@NakuNee]

Cry about it

[@randomgem8087]

yeah i quickly got bored from the video

[@AnimusPrime87]

So the title asks a question about Ultimate dying but the entire video was just a review of a few matches from an LMBM tournament? How does that follow? What’d I miss.

[@vvlaze]

I assume its to make the video more appealing to watch, since just labelling it as a recap is less exciting. Wish it was more upfront regardless

[@wilshirereacts8294]

It's just bullshit honestly

[@syn-militia9059]

People will pass on anything through click bait. Start using the don't recommend channel button. Is very useful to get rid of these wanna be tabloids.

[@nathanlevesque7812]

clickbait, pandering to haters, doomsaying is an addiction

[@LARAUJO_0]

Get a load of these guys [Ross from Friends image]

[@kaylone4174]

For the last stock in grands, Sonix actually believed he had a checkmate on Tweek, however if you look closely as Sonix executed his homing attack, Tweek jumps back just enough for Sonic to launch himself in the blastzone without touching Diddy. A risky play that showed insanse awareness from Tweek.

[@RemixkingDystansy]

Sonix and tweek actually talk about that interaction on GOAT talk. Since they constantly train with each other on wifi Tweek was aware of what would happened if Sonix missed and went for a jump towards the blast zone because of it

[@partysodown]

Looks like Tweek started his Barrels, which makes Diddy drop. He did the same thing to Ken and caused homing attack to miss the same way

[@rnelly0001]

How do you even know sonix believed he had a checkmate on tweek, Lmfao

[@samueldemers8589]

@@rnelly0001 He said it himslef on GOAT Talk podcast. It thought Tweek didn't have his 2nd jump which tweek used to avoid homing attack

[@gatsbee]

Glad to see another good ult channel. You've got some super good talent in Jazara and Jakal-- can't wait to see what y'all come up with.

[@randyryry6656]

Rister mice is also good too

[@stallionsLP]

Just like in the Sonic Adventure games, nothing costs Sonic harder than a botched Homing Attack to fling the hedgehog to his death.

[@KeyboardKlutz_0]

I just love how the commentators of WTT just didn't care Sonix and Spargo just stood there. "Yeah but remember we didn't like those guys, we like THESE guys." Love that Sonix is still respected for all the work he puts in, even tho I would still much rather watch the more fast-paced matchups.

[@viewerguy10]

The irony of Sonic having slow matchups always cracks me up

[@konakami7066]

yeah mad respect towards the commentators, just wish this respect was afforded to Steve players as well lol

[@eragon78]

To be fair, they werent intentionally collaborating to stall. Sonix was stalling because he actually figure that a lower time on the clock would give him a better chance to win. I mean if he can start the game with like 3 min on the clock for example, he's more likely to win than if it was 7. So stalling at 0% is actively beneficial for him. Sparg0 im honestly not sure why he was waiting tbh. But the point is, the gamestate was actually advancing since sonix was actively gaining an advantage the longer the clock ticked down. The whole lima vs zack situation that wasnt the case. They were stalling just for the hell of it because they could. There was no advantage to either player at all for stalling.

[@nathanlevesque7812]

speculation @@eragon78

[@doodoo2065]

​@@eragon78 I think Sonix was just triggered at the moment and needed a second to cool off, the match continued normally after that

[@tardissins7512]

Ult is dying because it’s fundamentally flawed. The mechanics encourage the lamest play possible so of course those are the characters who thrive, and that sucks for engagement.

[@thynegationist5696]

Tbh a decent ranked system and would help a lot at satisfying both new and old players, it seems so simple and I don’t know why Nintendo refuses. Add rollback too? You’d definitely get tons of players back.

[@SirMalorak]

And let me remove the buffer system Ultimate employs. It's so arbitrary and kills all muscle memory for all other games. Ultimate could be cool and they got all the hard stuff right, just add a simple ranked system, rollback and lemme disable the awful buffer system and we've got a fantastic game on our hands. ... And ban steve.

[@PlayMadness]

Because it isn't financially worth it. Ultimate sold millions without these systems, there's no point in adding them.

[@Matanumi]

Adding roleback essentially means making a new game. It needs to be coded in thr base engine of the game early

[@user-it2kq4ty9q]

@@SirMaloraknot everyone plays melee

[@DosDeAsada69]

After seeing this tournament, I can confirm that ultimate is better without Steve

[@Jazara]

Hope you all enjoyed 🔥Let’s go Tweek!

[@dill6612]

The fact that you even need too make this video shows that yes, the game is slowly dying and in my own opinion, the community killed it

[@Scumxixxx]

Characters killed it

[@TearsOfThem]

@@Scumxixxxsorta? But it’s mainly due to half of the original top players and smash personalities were ousted as predators. Most people online literally joke about smash players being predators, the general masses hate the community for the last 3 years. Meaning it’s harder for the community to grow with this nasty connotation

[@Izer42]

I definitely agree that the Smash community has an ongoing issue with misogyny/ really gross people who for one reason or another “get a pass”. But I think just pinning it all on the allegations made in 2020 feels a bit disingenuous, especially since we’re almost 4 years removed. Personally I know I distance myself from the local Ultimate scene but that’s more or less for…. hygienic reasons.

[@Niko-bz3df]

Tbf people talked exactly like this about Melee too and that game is still alive and well

[@fukopi]

It shows nothing imo. In how many games every months there's someone saying the game is finished in 2 years ? And how many times these people are wrong ?

[@titoavi]

hopefully rivals 2 is really good when fully released and we dont have to be at the mercy of old ass nintendo, seems like the only solution

[@pacothemajestic]

Rivals 1 was and still is good, and it didn't keep anyone from playing worse plat fighters. They don't want a better game, they just want to play what esports tells them to play.

[@titoavi]

sure but just like i didnt want to play rivals 1 cuz it was 2d and didnt look appealing, R2 looks way better and they're improving from R1 and im actually willing to try it and i hope R2 gets popular so we dont have to deal with nintendo @@pacothemajestic

[@four-en-tee]

Its a good game, but its just not Melee Thank you for coming to my TED Talk

[@Matanumi]

Doesn't have to be merely but it has to be combo Centric with some ofd stage flair And every smash game since has either be defensive or about the nutral game more so

[@shaneh3109]

I love melee...but ultimate has a fantastic character selection

[@kyallon1213]

I mean i think smash as a whole is slightly on a decline with more TO’s and events dropping, and it’s definitely never gonna be the same as 2022 and earlier after VGBC unintentionally drove Panda out. It’s why Luminosity picking up Max and Joe was so important since it’s strengthening another TO. Also steve bans are just gonna make acola more dominant in NA during supermajors, so if that’s what people want, then i guess that’s what we’re getting

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

I love that you included those stats about Steve. The problem with this character is not and has never been Acola, or any of the Steve players that come close to matching his performance. The problem is how difficult to counter he is at lower levels of competitive play.

[@xanander4693]

I like those stats too. The same situation happened in smash 4 with Bayonetta where low level players were picking her up and dominating their locals.

[@mr.monkey354]

the problem is people not learning the matchup and how to catch him off guard like never letting him mine and avoiding the same block formations, then sending death threats to kids who play him.

[@Runningwritingreading]

Yes and I stopped playing shortly before Steve released, Ultimate gameplay wasn't as deep as release and encourages hit and run as opposed to combos

[@freddiesimmons1394]

Shoulda done bans a long time ago. So frustrating

[@Matanumi]

They tried it with hero early meta remember? Met with tons of controversy and in the end ot wasnt warrrented

[@freddiesimmons1394]

@@Matanumi hero and steve are not remotely the same, argumentwise or power

[@milesedgeworth6353]

​@@freddiesimmons1394 that really doesn't have anything to do though. Nowadays you have the benefit of hindsight but back(and for a long while) the general concensus was that steve was meh, couple that with no tournamets because covid and steve not immediately taking over once tournaments that actually come back and it's no suprise Steve took so long to get banned.

[@freddiesimmons1394]

@@milesedgeworth6353 "back then" as in... before people thought he should be banned? The yelling from the rooftops about it went on for a long long time

[@milesedgeworth6353]

@@freddiesimmons1394 but then again, that yelling wasn't exclusive for Steve only, Joker had it, Hero had it, same with Kazuya and most importantly Aegis had it. I wanna highlight Aegis in particular because unlike Steve, Aegis actually had the performance back then as she immediately rose up the ranks in tournaments and had a bunch of top players that instantly switched to her, this at a time where Steve had already been in the game for a few months now. Yelling that a character is Banworthy isn't enough, you also need results to back that kind of statement up. And in Steve's case those results were never there from the beggining, heck you can even make an argument for them not being there just yet. As far as the top level of smash goes, the only ones truly affected by such ban would be Acola and Onin, this in stark contrast to melee where almost every top player was playing Fox at some point and let's not even get into Brawl and Smash4.

[@erich_ika]

where's the duality of smash ultimate? is the game dying or not? why is this video actually a review of the big moves tournament? what are you talking about? have I been clickbaited?

[@diegojaraestivill5620]

Crazy opinion, please read: We need PCs like aegis, cloud, watch, fox to save the game: -Camper pjs like sonic or steve can be rushed, which speeds up the game -They give a high reward, but they run the risk that a mistake will be expensive due to poor recovery or low weight. - Also PCs like Samus help the meta, since they force you to interact, Samus has the risk of being floaty and something big so you catch her and she eats things, but she forces you to get closer or she kills you

[@Harpy-with-Legs]

I mean it’s a Nintendo game they don’t have the best track record of making games that are supposed to keep a substantial online playbase. Plus the game came out 5 years ago after 5 whole years it’s obviously going to become mundane over time.

[@MarioSMG64]

This channel is just what Ultimate needs right now!

[@x9x9x9x9x9]

Commenting before watching: It took too long for anyone to have the balls to ban steve. The character alone isn't to blame for ultimate dying but they are a major factor is why viewership is declining. Interest in the game will go down with time, that is just a fact of any game. But the people who were still slightly interested, like myself, got tired of seeing steve vs steve in grands or steve vs sonix. If it was just a couple of games in top 16 then its whatever but when its every other game, watching just kinda sucks. If we knew nintendo was making another smash game then fine, leave steve alone, but since there isn't another game on the horizon, keeping what players and viewers they can is important. But at the end of the day I dont really care. I rarely watch ultimate tournaments, but I do enjoy making long youtube comments on subjects I barely care about.

[@MooseJS]

Dude I loved this. I took a break from the scene for a bit and this was an amazing recap

[@PandatheGOAT]

It’s because ultimate was made to be more casual lol. Nintendo literally designed it to be family friendly button mashing.

[@Suzaku_Mizutani]

I like how the perception I've largely seen from spectators regarding LMBM is that this was such a refreshing and fun tournament to watch. Which is strange, because Umebura was a statistically more enjoyed tournament -- if you take that to mean viewership, Umebura crushed LMBM. Now, some of this is probably due to the fact that LMBM was re-streamed more, and also that Japanese fans *really* turn up for big events like that, but still. A shame, then, that for some people, they see that the tournament with Steve legal (and who won the event) did better than the Steve banned tournament, so that means a majority of people actually do want Steve legal. Even though, from the things I've seen and heard, there's very few that actually don't want a ban, with the majority falling into a "I'm not saying to ban him... but I certainly wouldn't miss him" stance and another big group outright wanting him gone.

[@akiraenishi829]

don't forget gluto was in jpn who is like a massive crowd pleasure.. who also probably got like 20 - 30k viewers atleast..

[@rannynihilius8481]

Japan's scene has a lot of different values than the other scenes in the west. There isn't this stigma around what's lame and what's hype with more focus on the players than the characters from what i've seen. That's why they play all kinds of characters no matter if they're slow/fast paced. Shuton dominated over there with characters like Olimar for a long time, Tea is the only really big Pac-Man around the block and Yoshidora wins big tournaments with a character that's basically not used in the west. They see the games completely different in a lot of ways and that's why stories of players like aMSa and Protobanham can happen who are rather unique competitors and people compared to the usual top player.

[@menslingerie5502]

Umebura was a bigger tournament. LMBM was a major. Also Umebura had top players from multiple regions (France, us, japan) where as LMBM was all NA

[@LuigiLonLon]

Because its been known that a lot of Japan tournamets are more for bragging and grudge matches rights rather than money so its more obvious the desire to style on the opponent with your favorite character rather than win by any means necessary, its explains too why Acola vs Miya (who are play the most despised charaters in NA, mind you) rivalry is so entertaining to watch rather than Sonix's really stale playstyle whos really different from other Sonic players like Ken, or how many NA Steve players play. Its also why despite falling out, people still love watching Leo play, or other consistent people like Tweek, Skyjay, Glutto, Light etc. People don't hate the characters per se, they hate watching a boring playstyle being seen over and over and over again even if its the most optimal that guarantees results, people are going to get exhausted and irritated when for example, the next Sonix set is going to take +40 minutes, no matter the winner

[@CoHzus]

@@LuigiLonLonI feel u, thank u for writing that. I agree with most aside from ppl not not liking the character, I think a lot of ppl straight up don’t like Steve regardless of who is playing. Again I feel u and agree with most u said

[@tgmt20z]

Thank you for the excellent coverage!

[@Qwerky_Qwerty]

love how he says this game is dying then goes to immediately talking about competitive smash

[@alexandre526]

We need a statistical analysis of entrants per tournament to end this endless "is smash dying" debate. No subjectives ideas on how fun are top 8. But are people still coming to tournaments to enjoy the game ?

[@Phoenix2Troie]

I remember streaming and watching the grand finals and my deception when Sonix SD-Ed it was so hype

[@hugebluewhales]

8:10 love all that emotion in tweek's face when he's playing XD

[@coreyodell6220]

MkLeo and Skyjay were super hype at LMM, Acola/Miya is always a hype rivalry and having Gluto in the mix was sick. I think Steve bans are dramatic and only hurt the NA players, but both tournies were fun, regardless! Ult's fine, people are just bored with no patches. News of a new game for Switch2 (whatever its called) would be sick though!

[@coreyodell6220]

Also, can't wait to see your stuff on a second channel! I follow melee n ult, so both vids are fun for me! Saw your reasoning in another comment and wanna say good luck! (:

[@meipuma]

this video made me smile so much !! LMBM truely made me get my hype back for Ultimate. I can't wait to see more videos like this from other tournaments

[@the_doc_martin]

Yeah Lets make big moves was the first ult tourny ive watched in while and its funny how i actually looked up many matches i missed. But yeah its not fun watching steve ever. didnt even realize he was banned at first but makes sense why it was a fun tournament lol

[@Theovates]

I like how my main diddy in the thumbnail with cool text while Steve with lame text 😂

[@CrimsoniteSP]

I somehow didn't even catch wind of this event. Tbh, I'm almost not even interested in competitive Ultimate anymore though. Steve and Kazuya really ruined it for me, and not even just as a spectator. In short, since I'm so high in GSP ladder, I have to fight the current meta. And after fighting the 50,000th Steve, I'd leave for a month. And the very first game would be a Steve. So I'd leave for another month, and repeat. But the reason I don't like Kazuya is this whole design phase Ultimate went through. The whole "get touched, you die" character archetype. Which is like Luigi, Steve, Rob, Peach and Kazuya. Characters that are able to 0-death you consistently from a single interaction at low percent. It's just not fun to fight these types of characters.

[@pixelchu]

Thumbnail feels very misleading imo.

[@Johnny_Duster]

It’s just dumb shit good thing it’s dying Sakurai at this point just makes DLC overpowered for no fucking reason DLC like Septhiroth or Sora and Terry aren’t bad but the Devs fucked up with the rest like Steve Kaz or Pyra Atleast Smash 4 wasn’t that bad it was only Bayo who was op and she got banned

[@mr.monkey354]

half the characters in 4 were unviable as shit. ultimate is a way more balanced game

[@ravenger2445]

*"The Wii Fit defeated Stroder and Balls Grab."* 🤣🤣😅😅🗿🗿💀💀

[@primepete]

Excellent production quality! I've subbed and hoping you receive lots more subscribers too! You definitely love Smash, but with your skill set I could 100% see you covering other games as well (and that would expand your audience!) Well done!

[@shenangelo]

Great video but it didnt talk about what the title suggested

[@uprollsariotvan]

Idk if it's dying or not, but the WTT top 4 was super depressing (coinbox + steve and g&w) and it didn't really motivate me to keep on watching at all. But Leo and Tweek carried the last tournament so hard that now I think the game might not be that boring to watch

[@bakedbuninvasion]

Pretty much everyone saying the game is dying is the same people who over reacted to new unlicensed tournament rules that games like Street Fighter and Tekken already had. These are the same people who threw there hat in with vgbc in attempting to create a monopoly over the na scene without licence, or are in bed with these people now. These are the same people who protect anyone they like from accusations while allowing anyone who wasn't in there clique to get throw under the bus dispite being falsely accused. These are the same people who have been pulling this entitled pile of poop routine for nearly 20 years., and everyone had had it. NA smash is dying because no one wants to get kneecapped by a bunch of blacklisted idiots who will gladly destroy the entire scene if they are not going to have the lions share.

[@sourthecat]

Such a fun video dude, good luck to your new channel!

[@justanothermanontheinternet]

I’m convinced we could just remove 5-6 characters from the game and the meta would be enjoyable again. I’m not arguing that these characters are overpowered, but that removing by them would improve the game. Steve, Sonic, GnW, Kazuya, Minmin, Aegis. Again, not saying these characters are too strong or unbalanced, but that they are uniquely harmful to the viewing and playing experience. Unless these characters fall off(unlikely) or we ban them, a decent amount of major top 8s will look like WTT.

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

In my opinion, Aegis is decently fun, Kazuya is goofy in a good way, Min Min and G&W have really hype top representatives, Steve is sometimes cool because of all the options he has at his disposal and Sonic is entertaining in a few specific matchups. I don't think spectator entertainment is a good reason to ban or not ban a character, but if I did, the character that I would ban in an instant is Snake. One he's boring, and two I always feel like the opponent has to utterly outplay the Snake player to have a chance at winning. Statistically, Steve is harder to deal with(and should probably be banned because of that), but it doesn't feel that way when I watch Snake so it's frustrating.

[@judithforever9494]

@@legrandliseurtri7495no snake is hype. Nobody complaining about snake for a reason

[@mr.monkey354]

because nobody plays snake lol @@judithforever9494

[@apinecone2753]

Man it’s so fun watching some of the least fun characters make every single top 8 lmao. It’s never going away and it’s certainly not helping the game thrive.

[@TheTvSmash]

Clickbait title. Video almost had nothing to do with the game dying or not bruh

[@jackvogel701]

Sonix throwing for content lmao hope the channel goes well, Walt!

[@turndownforULT]

Thank you so much!

[@AmRosary05]

clickbait. i honestly expected a video essay-esque analysis of the smash community but it was just a recap...? entertaining but i wish i spent my time watching something else.

[@unclen2479]

Youre gifted Walt never stop making dope content man

[@eanderson9599]

*Tweek picks up Banjo* *Wins massive tournament 2 weeks later*

[@SeabasstheFish]

great video man, i like you recapping the majors. i hope you do more vids like this

[@Nikkerman]

Steve ban was fun to see at a major, absolutely loved it and I'm now 200% convinced it should happen

[@sharkronical]

Won’t happen in Japan though, so good luck for Tweek to get to top spot whilst not having experience against Steve

[@justice8718]

@@sharkronical Japan is not a respectable region. It only has respectable players.

[@ABC-ik9vj]

​@@justice8718😂

[@justice8718]

@@ABC-ik9vj Did you laugh because it was true?

[@ABC-ik9vj]

@@justice8718 Japan being the best region in ult hurts you that much?

[@xboxpenguin8705]

Shout out to TWEEEEEEEEEEEEEK (and Walt for the amazing content on such a consistent basis)

[@robertduerler2226]

Idk if I'd call Diddy cool, but this video was cool and so is Walt and this top 8 was a breath of fresh air

[@salemmetal6433]

Diddy is sick in this game. After the snoozer of S4 and Brawl Diddy, I'll take ultimate Diddy any day

[@robertduerler2226]

@@salemmetal6433 idk if I'd call Diddy sick

[@eragon78]

@@salemmetal6433 He's pretty defensive still in ult, but at least he actually plays the game and interacts with the opponent.

[@mr.monkey354]

yo mean he's spends 80% of the time just spawning in bananas for cheap tricks?@@eragon78

[@blacksun9703]

i like you choose to look back into tournaments and players with some topics or themes

[@chipminunleashedvods]

Nintendo Killed it by lack of support, a hatred for the competitive community and unbalanced and broken characters along with shitty online peer to peer play

[@Oceanandskylinevidss]

You nailed it, this video didn't hit any points and only talked about the competitive scene which is small compared to the casuals. This game would have kept going and grow if the online wasnt 12 to 16 frames of delay.

[@Blue-jn1ph]

This right here

[@oscarguzman3017]

You know it's bad when we must consider diddy kong cool 😅

[@SneeZSmash]

SkyJays crew battle performance alone was enough to get the Ultimate hype going again

[@trashylookingmario]

Yes, smash ultimate is dying. Just like smash 4 it's coming to a close mostly to DLC and other things I don't care about. The game was kinda overrated anyways.

[@chaselowell4567]

Correction to this video is competitive ultimate dying? I’ve been having fun since release and will continue to. Thank you very much.

[@BeastMasterVODs]

I wonder what would happen if everyone liked, commeted, and subcribed 😮

[@turndownforULT]

That would be so crazy fr

[@kudokey]

i think it was clearly seeing that viewer do not rely on steve ban or not especially LMBM was just 30k viewers while Umebura has 80k. its not just how steve ban fan is minority but also they want to see high talented players rather than using 'cool' character.

[@mrhalfsaid1389]

Yes, smash is dying, if multiple people think it is, the community is not great, steve, sonic and to some extent the majority of the top teirs are an absolute cancer for their complete lack of weaknesses and forcing passivity from the sheer amount of pressure these characters create is just not good. It doesn't help that bandai namco can't be assed trying to fix the characters that are far better than all other characters

[@commenteroftruth9790]

I love the smash series, so I hope it continues to make money, be popular, and create new games in the series.

[@RichieRage]

How did the viewership between those two events compare?

[@wedoofficial4333]

Diddy is cool..? I don’t think I’ve ever disagreed with something more in my life

[@SonicTheCutehog]

When the meta revolves around characters like Steve and Sonic, Diddy easily becomes a cool character when he's used

[@mr.monkey354]

i can respect steve because he takes ages more time to actually truly git gud than diddy. @@SonicTheCutehog

[@D4RKTH3T0PP4T]

Lets not shit ourselves, its SMASH. Smash will never truly die no matter what. Ultimate tournaments still exist, Melee meta is still going strong, and even more obscure communities like the Brawl community are still thriving.

[@_zombiezone]

I lowkey hope it dies so that other games can take the mantle. Rivals 2 is looking very promising as a competitive game and Ultimate is just generally kinda boring to watch after a while since there’s not a lot of room for freedom.

[@judithforever9494]

Give it two weeks and it will lose any chance it had at main stream appeal. Roa2 will be just like the last game, smaller dedicated fan base that will be mostly forgotten. Smash is top op in the plat fighting community

[@_zombiezone]

@@judithforever9494 it's unfortunately true. Don't get me wrong, I loved Smash growing up, but seeing how shitty Nintendo treats its own fanbase and how linear they made Ultimate's gameplay, I feel like another company that actually understands the fanbase should step in and take over since Rivals has fluid gameplay and does everything a platform fighter should be. The only reason Smash is still relevant is due to it being advertised as a party game with recognizable characters.

[@TJlolbagger]

Melee will always be sick as hell and have a very dedicated player/spectator base, no matter what bs Nintendo tries to pull. It'll be tough for any Smash game or plat fighter in general to ever top what that game has.

[@_zombiezone]

@@TJlolbagger I prolly should’ve specified that I wanted Smash Ultimate to die. Melee is an incredible game with insane skill required to play which is great for that playerbase. Rivals and Melee should coexist with each other as two very good games to focus on rather than Ultimate since many people just default to Ultimate. Rivals to me is basically what Nintendo should’ve made Ultimate, a game that brings back advanced movement and combos while still making it accessible to a wider audience. I feel like Rivals 2 has a good chance at garnering a huge audience due to the polished visuals and clean gameplay from Rivals 1. As long as the advertising and KZbinrs showcase the game more than NASB2, it can be something very special for people who are tired of Ultimate

[@TJlolbagger]

@@_zombiezone nah I feel you, I was just giving an example of a plat fighter that's genuinely successful, has a history, and why. I do hope other plat fighters find success, but it's just much harder now. The Melee scene kind of came around and struggled through the right times, and got the right kind of attention when it really needed it. It's going to be very hard to build up a history like Melee has, but I hope at some point another plat fighter can.

[@cjkmelee]

Ah dammit Walt you got me on this one. Clicked and decided to stay

[@kylerclarke2689]

It will die the minute the next smash releases, no sooner no later

[@insertnamehere12]

No shit, most people who play games don't glue themselves to one entry and this game has a handful of frustrating characters that define the meta

[@mr.monkey354]

compared to brawl and smash 4, ultimate is balanced@@insertnamehere12

[@pinkheartgamers5007]

I just dont think smash should just ban steve, we've seen many fighting games have that have *the one broken top main* like chun-li in third strike, magneto from MVC2 and they didnt resort to banning the character but rather imbracing these absolute monsters. The steve ban for me just feels like the most sour "No-Fun zone" i have ever scene in any competitive fighting game and no the argument that "its not fun to play against steve" is very surface level as you can say that about fighting any character in any game. And by watching some competive could nutral b spam or sonic spindash i still dont see why steve was the straw that broke the camels back to some people.

[@Lucky_9705]

Smash Ultimate needs a competitive Revolution

[@pokefriend123]

It's not our fault because Ultimate is repetitive and every matchup is predetermined on the startup screen. Unlike Smash Melee had possibility in every move, stupid shit like Ganondorf could actually be good because your technical ability mattered.

[@oOTheMastaOo240]

Ultimate died the day it stopped getting balance patches

[@Matanumi]

Yeah or the year theirafter

[@lordxrz6588]

Smash isn't we all just going through the waiting for the sequel Syndrome😂😂😂

[@Shadw0Maelstrom]

That sonix spargo set at wtt was just evo 2018 again i fear

[@captinhindsight7345]

All good things come to an end, even for smash ultimate…

[@kittyratrawr]

tweek is so good, hope he can keep the momentum.

[@firebal6129]

I’ll at least comment, boost th Chanel a little bit

[@sinchill5424]

Update the stage list, fix the game.

[@vvlaze]

Not the biggest fan of the title marketing the video as more of an overall view of the game’s health rather than a tournament recap. Can’t say I was nearly as interested once I clicked in, because, well, I already watched the event.

[@sachitechless]

I was fully expecting you to in some way compare Umebura and LMMM rather than just a video gassing up Tweek's run at LMMM. Honestly it wasn't the kind of quality I expected from you.

[@ProbablyGene]

i still think about the counter that lost spargo that losers finals set, brutal

[@ShockedTaiLung]

Underrated smash tuber?!

[@mohammadalhusaini810]

Its sad he didn’t use sephiroth even once but can’t blame him honestly

[@slouch186]

they should ban more than just steve. low tier exclusive tournaments would be fun

[@MKDeon]

Someone tell sonix never to use homing attack🙏

[@Yokai_Yuri]

The game is almost 5 years old so..yeah it's about time that dies.

[@Cookedmaruchan]

I love Competitive ult so this channel is great, thanks man

[@JosephRouen]

Does this thumbnail imply that Diddy Kong is any cool?

[@Ruyeghu2]

To be honest i just watch ULT for sisqui lmao

[@Viviko]

A tourney winner that isn’t Steve or Sonic? Yes please.

[@kemmybelleuwu]

Just clicked this video and I can already tell its the same hopium bullshit with "no the game isn't dead its still fun! steve and DLC arent ruining the game!" YES the game is dying don't listen to these KZbinrs saying bullshit about the game 😂 (Edit dude clickbaited minus points dislike!)

[@calebjosef6248]

bruh I watched the Tweek vs Sonix S.Ds live, though only now am I realizing BOTH times did Tweek PLAN it 🤯 The first time, he's clearly expecting the homing attack, so monkey flips to the right under stage - which meant death for him every time that low, he was just hoping that the homing attack was coming out & he could even the stocks. I don't think there's any world where Diddy recovers to the other side of stage THAT low, which I imagine Tweek knew... The second time, if you look at the small "off screen character indicator", you can see Tweek uses his jump to jump LEFT, further into the blastzone, to trick the homing attack, and then uses up-B to hopefully make it back to stage should this attempt fail Massive brain

[@VarsVerum]

0:02 hey that’s me! ☺️

[@tymunster]

This tournament shows I don't hate sonic I just hate Steve

[@sidneyfernandez4318]

Put the DLCs out the tournaments in general. We seen how carried they all are. Aegis carried, Kazuya, Terry, Steve and the rest of the DLC. Play without them, and gosh have fun

[@gingeral253]

It’s crazy how Leo used to be the greatest ever, and now he’s just one of many top players.

[@EpicMinecraftFail]

Joker counterplay developed

[@thegoodgeneral]

Wow, good job, Tweek!