THE DUCT DETECTOR KEEPS TRIPPING

[@goodpplz123]

Dad bod. I feel ya. I’ve had this happen where I had to repair something a decade later and couldn’t fit in the same space. 😄

[@publicmail2]

As you might know the EOL or end of line resistors are supposed to go at the end of the loop to verify wire integrity (a specific ohm value for shorted or open loop). Some bad installers will put then in the panel to satisfy circuit but not doing it's job to check actual wiring, so you shouldn't be able to see the resistors in panel. Fire circuit is N.O. and burglar is N.C.

[@goalie2998]

It could be a class A loop and wired to a module or a zone card at the panel. No resistors in that circuit style

[@blueoval250]

That FA circuit should be wired through the NC trouble contacts on the detector also.

[@samuelbrittingham1140]

Yeah the EOL is only going to be on the last duct detector.

[@shawnsousa7473]

I dont even have an HVACR background (electronic engineer) but i love these videos and how well put together these videos are... Almost makes me want to switch professions and dabble into the HVACR world.. Your well explained videos have gotten me hooked 😎

[@al.e123iis7]

I'm a software engineer. Cs grad. I had a job during undergrad that allowed me to work on commercial and chiller jobs. I'm pulling 1k in side jobs/ week now. Do it bro. Its not hard.

[@randomrazr]

@@al.e123iis7 if u can do math and egineering, of course this stuff is easy for you. not me thoguh :(

[@seanmichael8202]

Mechanical engineering, brah! 🤙

[@Andersonairchris]

I love how you took the break to go to the board and explain the smoke detector circuit. Good info in this video.

[@anythingalarm5429]

Great breakdown of duct detectors! The term you are looking for in regards to the resistor is "supervision". Fire alarm circuits are supervised, with conventional devices an EOL resistor is used as the last device on the circuit, basically it creates a certain amount of current on the wire for the fire panel to monitor, when the wire is opened the current changes causing a trouble on the panel. In most cases you can install an EOL in a device if it is the only device on that zone which is common for duct detectors. If there are multiple devices generally they are installed in there own box with a cover plate.

[@EnderMalcolm]

Wooo, early again! Had a fun week, the construction company at my school tripped a smoke alarm with drywall dust. We thought it was a drill and went out as normal, then the firetrucks turned up. Instantly thought of your duct detector videos.

[@meme-xn6wr]

As someone who loves fire alarm and response systems, and HVAC, this is like the best crossover video there is. Thanks for filming.

[@meme-xn6wr]

@Chris Forbush I am sorry to say that I do not. I’m a minor, and thus can not do too much work in the trades. However, just like you, I study these trades regularly. I plan on working for the railroad when I get older.

[@alexandersalarms5380]

ive been working at a fire alarm company since i was 14 lol. u can do it..... @@meme-xn6wr

[@jfwfreo]

I may not know the fine details of how to repair ACs and stuff but your videos have given me inspiration (and knowledge of what they look like) to build a package unit out of LEGO Bricks (complete with repair guys, tools and pink tank of R410A refrigerant) as part of a large LEGO build I am displaying this weekend. Very fascinating learning how these machines work and getting ideas to improve my LEGO creations going forward by adding more realistic looking HVACR equipment to those creations (even though I will probably never have the skills to even begin to touch the real thing)

[@andrewredmon4197]

I thought you said no video this week! Those resistors are sometimes called "end-of-line" resistors, and you'll see them at the end of an alarm line where multiple devices are daisy chained. Please do a video if/when they replace the RTU!

[@mathewahrens4475]

Yay! You used “supposedly” instead of “supposably”. I’ve been noticing that for years! Good job!

[@hrdworkin7633]

Good Alarm Tutorial. I have found many detector sensors can be broken down further and cleaned. Grease, dirt and dust collect around the screen protecting the sensor itself. Thanks again for the vids!

[@pettergardo3874]

If you have multiple detectors on one loop the resistor is normally in the last detector in the loop. Called a end resistor, this is so the system can now that the complete loop is intact aka a fail safe loop. There is solutions with resistors with different resistance for each sensor in a loop, this to make it possible to identify which sensor in a loop that’s gone of. Not that common though.

[@anthrosaurian]

It has always bothered me that they call it "Dad Bod" when they could have easily just gone with "Father Figure" 😋

[@pintaco4299]

As a new father im totally stealing the term

[@micahkairo2534]

i guess I am quite off topic but does anyone know of a good place to stream newly released movies online ?

[@anthrosaurian]

@@micahkairo2534 *shrugs* I wouldn't know Only stuff i've been streaming lately are 90s cartoons on wcostream. I wish you the best of luck in finding what you're lookin for though.

[@kairokabir9696]

@Micah Kairo i would suggest FlixZone. You can find it on google :)

[@special_k-hvac]

I love finding tools, I've never found a drill but I've found several klein high leverage lineman pliers

[@caru3257]

I left my Yellow Drill at a funeral home on Monday and went back to pick it up yesterday.

[@special_k-hvac]

@@caru3257 was the battery dead

[@jaysonhines1]

Oh yeah!!!! I love that smoke detector troubleshooting board you made. You're a badass. AND!!!!! You care enough about your employees to actually make that board for their knowledge and confidence. KUDOS!!!!

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

Thanks bud!! I will be going live on KZbin this evening 9/6/21 @ 5:PM (pacific) to discuss my recent uploads and answer questions from the chat, Come over and check it out kzbin.info/www/bejne/fovNeXSPibp_idE

[@dtiydr]

14:31 Was about to faint when I saw a half cut Fluke 233 nailed to the board.. but remembered the next second that the display on this model is detachable and at this point also saw the rest to the low right. Good scare there!

[@TheCodeDaemon]

Chris you actually made me LOL with the Dad Bod speech...

[@dashcamandy2242]

1:03 - Oh cool, you got yourself a "new" drill! Nice demo of the duct detector circuitry! You might be surprised that the basics haven't changed much in 30 years or more (going from memory as Dad's Little Helper while he installed Simplex systems in schools during the 1980s). It's pretty much KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid. That's probably a good thing, the more complicated a system is, the more potential "weak links."

[@publicmail2]

BTW photo smoke detectors have an infrared emitter and a receiver, but it does not work by smoke blocking the beam. The IR emitter and receiver are not pointing at each other, but away, and smoke acts to reflect or scatter light back to the receiver, much like fog can reflect light back at you when running high beams.

[@cliveramsbotty6077]

wow thanks dude i had this wrong in my head for years!

[@pootispiker2866]

They're actually pretty smart, too. They can measure ambient light getting into the detector and adjust for it. They can also compensate for reasonable amounts of dust buildup.

[@CHOMAHOMA]

Great video to keep studying Duct Detectors. It has an applied application, complementary explanation and another related problem impacting the performance of an RTU. Thank you again for filming this video.

[@mitchellarmyguy2515]

Friday night at 11:20 and not a beer in sight watching HVAC videos...I'm getting old lol

[@sebastiannielsen]

Also about NC/NO its very important to actually measure. You can never trust NC/NO labelling. Sometimes, the relay might be in a "pulled" mode (so it drops when the board loses power), meaning that NC/NO will be swapped. Always measure. Its the same with magnetic alarm contacts, some manufacturers label them NC/NO based on a pushbutton, ergo without a magnet attached, and some label them as in mounted state with closed door. Thats why you need to measure, because different manufacturers have different labelling standard (or in other words, different perspective whats "normally").

[@jphvac5725]

Should add a computer fan to another relay that shuts off fan when alarm is hit. Just to show what the RTU does. Great video! Always find them interesting!

[@stevenmoomey2115]

I loved it when I had to do the Fire Alarm maintenance for them. Blown many a Detector and Sampling Tubes out, with Dry Nitrogen. Tightened up their Wiring, Replaced EOL Resistors, Etc. BTW, You should get yourself some “Tampering Tape,” and put it on things like this and your Equipment under Contract, to see if it’s either being serviced or if someone’s been In it.

[@johnwood5646]

Accessibly is everything in this business. Well done on explaining smoke detectors. I always hate those calls that involve alarm systems.

[@IanGSully]

When you call the monitoring company, your not really putting your fire alarm system into test, your just telling them to not send the fire department. So the fire alarm will still go off when you trip it, but it just won't send the fire department until you tell the monitoring company that the work on the fire alarm is done.

[@ehsnils]

I was a bit bugged about that Fluke 233 until I did look it up and realized that it was a multimeter with a remote display and not a multimeter you put in the bandsaw. As a computer nerd I do have used termination resistors as well and they shall only be at the ends of a circuit, never on the intermediate devices. But then it's usually a 50 or 75 ohm termination on a coaxial cable. Smoke alarms are otherwise finicky - dirt and humidity can make them go off even though there isn't any fault otherwise.

[@Lone_traveler147]

Going through school i get a little confused on certain scenarios however watching these videos helps me greatly, I appreciate the content.

[@67tr876]

I really enjoyed the smoke alarm system breakdown! I never really deal with them so it was nice to learn. I always learn something when I watch you're video's. Thanks again

[@TheCrystalGlow]

I know your pain Chris… I have had to squirm my way around ducting like that to pull cable and I gotta say… NOT fun! It’s like I have to play damned twister game to move. Lol. My body was not built to stretch like that! 😂

[@glennduxbury2568]

Maybe as kids or Teens, but no longer !😁

[@joecrowe3681]

I learned a lesson on our church Rtus the fire alarm goes in trouble with power disconnected. St. Paul Mn

[@gelecopter]

Well explained =) Alarm should have only one resistor. It called End termination resistor, so it should be on the end of each line. It helps to diagnose the line integrity. Value depends on alarm manufacturer specs, usually in the range of 1k to 20k. In here is most of the time it is 4.7k.

[@travisredneck1966]

I started on the field on July 2020 on air conditioning ,. Your videos are very helpful learning

[@frankyboy4409]

"I used to fit..." story of my life 😂

[@maxboyer11]

A tip I learned from our alarm guy, the light on the detector will flash faster if it's dirty. Not sure if it's a standard thing across brands.

[@rockercover]

Fire system folks do not service these detectors and sample tubes? That duct to wall clearance is insane, (in-order to get around it). Many Kudos to you, for doing what you do.

[@MrJANTJE123]

Nice! Finally a video where i can add my expertise. I work allot with those smoke detectors. Brand now is called apollo. These type of detectors slowly get more and more dirty and can send a fault signal to show they need to be replaced. I am not sure how its called in english... I would recommend just replacing those, boards should still be good. Apollo 55000-317 should be the one you need ;)

[@davidmiller9485]

if your like me you would do more than panic. When i was 10 i got stuck in a culvert that had been crushed and couldn't back myself out. I had to be cut out, and i still have nightmares about how that experience feels. Never underestimate just how bad childhood experiences can make you panic, or any other strong emotion for that matter.

[@TheWoodman064]

Tremendous explanation! We have those in duct detectors and good knowing what to look for!

[@justinklrjms]

I had to send out a beanpole tech at a job where they put the boiler in the crawlspace and backwards and all the 2x4s were 12" appart on every way to the other side of the boiler.....that was a day that made me contemplate my diet lol

[@williamjthepoet1675]

You literally are giving a clinic!❤❤❤ you sir awesome

[@williamjthepoet1675]

I love the panic aspect you coveted

[@ericlopez7120]

I'm a big guy and have gotten into places most of my lighter/smaller co-workers don't get in.

[@001looker]

Thanks for the laugh, I laughed for good 10 min after your comment about your new bod.

[@johnwood702]

Designed a kitchen a/c system in a multi story shopping centre in which the fire service required in the ductwork detectors ( as this was about 25 to 30 years ago) which was designed and installed by a fire service company. They started to get alarms and they blamed my client but to cut the story short the fire company and fire service went on site and had a new sensor fitted. As the installer installed he sprayed the sensor to help it stay clean. This was found to be what it was causing the problem as it left a film over sensor.

[@tyeheyborne3912]

I've come across a few of these and what I've seen is a nice big spider and web inside the either the censor or the tube

[@goalie2998]

So this is weird in my area. If the duct detectors are below deck within the space, and monitored by the fire alarm, we as alarm techs would handle this. During install well let the hvac guys install them typically. And handle the wiring. The only time we would defer to an hvac guy is package units with detectors built in. Also in my experience moisture is a killer for duct smokes. Alot of the time you won't see anything until you flip the board over and the terminals are all corroded. The EOL setup on those detectors is not uncommon. They probably have a dedicated zone per rtu and jump bother detectors out .

[@randombird404]

I love duct detector videos. As well as the other ones😉

[@blueoval250]

The company I work for won’t allow us to work on duct detectors anymore. They claim it’s HVAC equipment and if it comes in the unit I agree. It’s always a vendor meet now which is a huge pain to try and get scheduled. You’re the only HVAC guy I’ve seen that knows anything about duct detectors.

[@Ronnocbot]

On fire alarm systems, the resistor is always at the end of the loop. It usually is known as the end of line resistor (EOLr). In your case, that duct detectors likely isn’t the end of the signaling line loop. Duct detectors technically should have their own dedicated circuit however in addressable systems.

[@wd8557]

Where I used to work they had that exhaust hood system VFD, a laser shot across the hood and detected temp. Problem was the employee's did not understand it, they where use to hearing the hood roaring all the time. Now you make some pancakes you cant even hear it run. You have to be cooking some major shit to get it to ramp up. Nice system if their is a problem most of the time you just wipe the laser lens clean.

[@Samthe17]

It’s funny I just watched some of your old duct detector videos yesterday and you release this 😂👍

[@RDEnduro]

Haha sometimes you gotta go right. I call that swimming when I'm up in a tight spot edit ** wow great training board!!

[@yudhakaka3677]

Hai iam from indonesia realy exsaiting wacth your channel

[@realestateservicessaleshea99]

I had a six pack once ,now it's an eighteen pack. 😂🤣🥃🥃🍺🍺🍺🍇🏌 I hated smoke & burglar alarms,most of the time an outside subcontractor took care of them but when I got stuck it was one looong day! Stay safe. Retired keyboard super tech. Wear your safety glasses.

[@uniteddrones7626]

The resisters are at the end of the loops, alarm heads, pull stations detectors ect if you got 4 detectors wired together the last one will have the resister. That’s because if the resistance is before the last one it won’t detect problems past the detector because it’s not electronically closed with that resister if that makes sense

[@PowderMill]

😷 Quick note from a fire alarm control design engineer.... An EOL (end of line resistor) circuit is traditionally a class B cit. It will detect a circuit opening or closure AND It’s always monitoring that EOL to ensure that the wiring and equipment is still intact. There ARE other types of fire alarm detection circuits. A class A Circuit is a four wire circuit. Two wires come from the control, loop through the premises and end up back at the control. This way if there is a one leg Circuit interruption, The fire alarm control panel can detect closures from before the opening as well as after the opening. Did that make sense? The way circuits are designed, th

[@gregbowman3598]

Good one Chris👍

[@Mrcaffinebean]

It would be nice if Measure Quick let you select that you where using a high side line an adjusted the measure to a more accurate estimate.

[@oklahoma_]

Yes there should be a EOL on there now they my have looped all the detectors and would be on the last one or some one put at FACP big no no. However every installation I do each RTU is its own zone one FACP

[@OldPumpMan]

Awesome video man, such a great explanation of how these work👍!

[@ReliableHVACR]

Great info! Nice breakdown.

[@stephanmetph]

Oil can be from te wire. If it gets warm due to resistors etc.

[@ljmike1204]

Hell yea a free drill ... boy i wish i was lucky to find one in a car engain bay ... i only seem to find 10mm sockets ....

[@al0920]

I'm a fire alarm installer/programmer. In an addressable system you won't see a resistor on the sensor side of a fire system BUT in the older analog systems a resistor is present on the end of the sensor circuit. Usually we try to put those resistors in an accessible area certainly not in a crawl space.

[@flyinghigh5531]

My happy place is replacing ductwork in a crawl with live and dead rats, dead cats, and many other animals. You’d be amazed of what you’ll find 😂

[@rmhanseniii]

Why doesn’t the fire alarm company send out their own techs to troubleshoot their own equipment?

[@whoisderf]

Not always are the detectors tied into a monitoring system. Often just used to shut off the equipment.

[@blueoval250]

The company I work for won’t allow us to work on them anymore. They claim it’s a HVAC item and I would agree if they came in the unit but if they’re in the duct work we should be working on them.

[@scotthewitt6047]

Most of the time they call the AC company first because the AC is off then they call the Alarm company.

[@jacknasty6940]

Exactly

[@silasmarner7586]

I like the watch tan on the left wrist! It goes with the dad bod!

[@alimuh007]

Big picture diagnosis, That's interesting

[@actechformallyyomama746]

Years ago I was having trouble with a detector on a lab unit. 100% fresh air unit tripping it off. I finally figured out what was happening. There are train tracks near the building. From time to time a train would park on the tracks. The diesel exhaust was getting into the intake causing the detector to trip. Due to the fact that the unit moved more than 2000 cfm it required a smoke detector but it was not sensing building air. I wrapped the sampling tube with filter media and solved the problem.

[@HVACRVIDEOS]

Damn that was a real head scratcher..... I bet it felt good when you figured it out

[@actechformallyyomama746]

I was doing an inspection when a train parked and the fumes hit me on the roof. Wind had to be just right.

[@JasperJanssen]

That seems like it would prevent the detector from detecting fires.

[@actechformallyyomama746]

@@JasperJanssen it quite possibly did. But again it was 100% fresh air. On the chance that you could explain to me how to resolve a parked train. It’s exceeded my troubleshooting abilities. I guess I could go over to the front engine, polity knock on the door and ask the engineer to move the train.

[@JasperJanssen]

@@actechformallyyomama746 probably better to relocate the fresh air intake to another part of the building or live with the false alerts. I mean, you can also just bridge out the smoke detector so it doesn’t do anything, which is just as effective, but you probably wouldn’t do *that*, right?

[@Tokaisho1]

Lmao the dad bod moment

[@cliveramsbotty6077]

i'm pretty tall so i twat my head on everything but i can usually find a way to squeeze through gaps. i don't quite understand how people of wide body type can move around some sites that are tight and pokey but they seem to find a way somehow

[@pootispiker2866]

The resistor goes on the end of the circuit so that if a wire shorts anywhere in the system the panel can see it.

[@Jilocasindragon]

"Clearing system faults in measureQuick does not correct detected faults in the system" Oh? 😁 I love how this needs to be stated in the first place..

[@basecom70]

Most high-end alarm systems have an EOL resistor and the end of a circuit. That way is someone breaks the line the minor current flow is detected by the circuit and gives a alarm other than a FIRE. Worked for the DC Subway for a while and it was funny (not) seeing the EOL resistor attached to the detector board.

[@jacknasty6940]

All have an eol

[@Pyro4100]

Resistors are used for addressable circuits when there's more than one device on the same line and the fire alarm panel is addressable that's how it knows the different devices if the fire alarm panel is not addressable there will not be a resistor or if that particular smoke detector has a dedicated circuit

[@russellhltn1396]

On the exhaust fan situation, is there a way to slow the fan down (change the pully?) so it's at a good speed rather than "max"? Because it seems that leaving them on max is creating more problems then the original system was causing.

[@modulatormaster8770]

yep they do not have a resistor.

[@quietone610]

Anyone else envious of the DMM with detachable display? That isn't an editing trick! I kinda want one--although it would have so little practical use to me! XD

[@Liberator975]

You have a resistor on the end of the line on detectors and a capacitor on call points

[@russellhltn1396]

On that supervisory resistor - I wonder if some fool put it on the middle detector, leaving the circuit out to the second detector unsupervised?

[@HappilyHomicidalHooligan]

An Oil Residue or Film on the board could be creating a new electrical path (i.e. a short) causing the system to think it's getting an Alarm Signal from the detector head triggering the Fire Alarm...

[@andrewwhite1793]

If these are safety critical, do you test these with spray smoke as part of preventative maintenance as the fire alarm guys do with theirs? Why does the AC not take an input from the fire panel? For info, Smoke detectors can have a recommended life of 10 years max.

[@johnwalker890]

Good job.

[@AGoonMayown01]

gotta love the duct detectors.

[@UmbreWolf]

Resistors on fire alarm systems are typically EOL or end of line and only need one per zone. if both detectors are on the same zone then only one resisitor is needed.

[@muahammadkhan6654]

Good job bro

[@joelbrown3479]

Big guys in tight places! 😜💪💪💪😎😎😎

[@vintagesimplexfirealarmsof6440]

I collect old simplex fire alarms and I kinda know about model numbers on alarms them selfs

[@mrcrux213]

It might have a lot of ducks in the ducts 😅😅😅

[@rf159a]

Chris, I'm wondering if there is another duct detector in series with that one. That might explain why there is no resistor to complete the circuit for trouble. As I was typing this I realized you found the other detector that was in series with it. My bad!!

[@marcycami]

What about creating a access in the drywall, 12x12 and a quick panel, or cheaper a grill.

[@aaronbrandenburg2441]

I second that. Also story time. I remember one time we had at my parents place a outdoor hose faucet freeze turns out there was no indoor shut off for that particular faucet at all. All the others did of course. It was in my bedroom that that faucet was located outside of. They want to get even do simple cabinet doors from a hardware store that was no longer used create an access opening for the shut off valve for the outdoor faucet. Also you know they have those metal covers like you see in commercial buildings to access Plumbing or whatever one of those would definitely be large enough as well some of them

[@lintonthomas9826]

I like the Fluke with remote display

[@allhoursmaintenance3022]

Great stuff. What are the symptoms of a plugged filter dryer. Thanks.

[@takleung7130]

Another great vid! One thing I don't get, discharge line or liquid line? Which one to use? It seems iquid line would be more accurate. But I see you put the probes on the discharge most of the time. I just do residential a/c so rtu's are a bit confusing sometimes. Thanks!

[@stevea3936]

I’m not a fan of the brand smoke detector that was installed. System Sensor makes a watertight outdoor detector that solves a lot of problems. Much easier to access as well.

[@instrumenttech4220]

Incredible video lots of info great lessons also it said alco in it you know right ??😂

[@BillyN31]

I love it...I use to fit on the right...😂

[@caru3257]

Guess who is one of the ones who fits on the right at my job.

[@NikHYTWP]

Is that a Galaxy Note phone you're using for the measuring software? Looks way better than the beat up tablet!

[@williampatriot5622]

9:05 thats not that much of a joke, im 6'5 and 270lbs and I gotta squeeze my big ass into tiny spaces LOL