The Dumbest Lawsuit in Flash Game History

[@slow_start]

Thanks for watching guys. You can grab Atlas VPN for just $1.83/mo + 3 months extra before the deal expires: get.atlasvpn.com/slowstart 👍

[@slyceth]

bro you blasting me with teh 4k

[@Stettafire]

ScamVPN

[@CatFish107]

No, try making money some other way.

[@NovaCosmo]

Ngl I'd watch a whole video on flash games in general, how the community took off and how they evolved into the modern indie/mobile game industry. There's definitely an interesting nostalgia deep dive and cultural history to explore there.

[@slow_start]

Agreed!

[@gracekim1998]

Ooo yeah I’d love to learn how it started. There’s a lot i don’t know 😅

[@Marci124]

It would be hard to make such a video and not have it be 85% about Newgrounds. Its history is also a video in itself.

[@thatsHECKAtight]

You’re in luck because someone recently did just that. “The history of flash games” or something like that. Worth a watch

[@aimnothingg]

two left thumbs interviews a lot of og flash creators

[@ApostateOfMind42]

As a retro computing dude, I appreciate your gratuitous use of that wonderful Viewsonic monitor. Once again, you knocked it out of the park with the video. I do like seeing your face more in the narration, it brings more personality to the video. The small comedic bits are a wonderful addition. Bravo again slowstart.

[@slow_start]

Thank you so much, as always, Apostate ;) So glad you're enjoying the small changes I've made to my format as well!

[@illegalopinions4082]

I only recently found out that they still produce monitors lol

[@sleepykong8316]

Dude!!! How does this channel only have 50K, this stuff is great! Keep up the good work dude it will absolutely pay off!!!

[@MrJans3n]

I'd be a very different person if I didn't grow up with Flash content. ESPECIALLY the stick stuff.

[@cam5816]

You’d be Sir Isaac Newton

[@JimDeFran]

I used to browse sites like Newgrounds and AlbinoBlackSheep when I was way too young to be doing so. I remember seeing Xiao Xiao 3 for the first time when I was like 5 years old (I don't remember if I found it myself or if my older sister showed me). I was entranced by that short. I watched it all the time and I became a huge fan of the series and stick-figure content in general. Never knew about the lawsuit but then again, I was so young it would have just went over my head. It's really too bad to hear that the creator of a very special series from my childhood was actually a huge dick haha.

[@CocoHutzpah]

I miss the creativity of those days. I would never trade the speed and reliability of the internet today compared to 2000, but I'd definitely trade today's content for yesterday's art.

[@bamdadkhan]

the most disturbing part of this video is that now you even have to censure stick figure gore..

[@jovishark]

this is the greatest video detailing flash importance ive ever seen, and not just because it includes clips of games and things that I ENGAGED WITH personally. my nostalgia aside. youve somehow found a way to make a video essay that isnt boring or obnoxious, and youve found a billion perfect clips and screencaps that show off the best and worst parts of these eras. i love your style so much!

[@slow_start]

Thank you so much for this wonderful comment! It's really heartwarming to hear, as I loved covering this story so much but it is one of my lesser known videos. Appreciate ya!

[@TwoPairSA]

Zhu disappearing is the weird part for me. Like, I'm not surprised he stopped making Xiao Xiao. After the lawsuit (well, the second one) he knew that his "character" (that he thought of as his) was able to be monetized, but not _just_ by him. However I am surprised by his total disappearance, I would've figured he would have just made a character a little more detailed (and copyright-enforceable) and gone back to doing the same big fight style of video. I sure hope the dude wasn't so demoralized by the loss that he just quit art altogether. That'd be a bummer.

[@DistantLoner]

I'm concerned that he might have given up on more than just art. We don't know how his mental health was or how desperately he needed money. What if getting charged $8k was the last straw? What if his family and friends shamed him for trying to sue Nike over a stick figure? Surely he would have logged back on by now for nostalgia's sake if he were still alive.

[@AlejandroFerrariMc]

0:15 that self-reference got me LOL I'm so glad I found this channel, filled with interesting stories and accompanied with your superb narrating skills. 5/8 would watch again.

[@ApolloVIIIYouAreGoForTLI]

I think the funniest part of this video is theres actually such a thing as Chinese copyright law...

[@JR1cktheSk3tchy]

LETS GOOOOOOOOO

[@CTGReviews]

@@JR1cktheSk3tchywtf

[@swisserty]

? Sound racist bro

[@CTGReviews]

@@swisserty it isn’t racist it’s just joking about the fact that there are a ton of Chinese bootleg stuff that usually never gets caught by the law

[@JR1cktheSk3tchy]

@@CTGReviews Yea, I just feel like Chinese companies get away with copyright infringement the most.

[@Limes935]

Hey, I think you are making some great videos and I am really enjoying your content. One small thing I think you could change, however, would be the volume of the sound effects you use. Right now they can be a bit distracting and I think turning them down to 75% or even 50% would be a nice touch. Otherwise I think you are doing great and your channel is definitely going in the right direction.

[@slow_start]

Definitely noted! Thank you for the feedback!

[@15MUGEN]

I'm glad you use that shifty song so often, I've liked it for a long time

[@slow_start]

I'm glad you don't find it annoying! I try to sneak DnB into videos wherever I can get away with it ;)

[@gracekim1998]

Ah I miss flash games….the only stickman game I’ve played is um Henry stickmin😂

[@slow_start]

That's a goodie!

[@averagewhiteguy2]

I'm glad the appeal went through. Chinese copyright law is notorious for looking the other way when their own people steal intellectual property from others, but is very, VERY strict against non-Chinese nationals.

[@FlymanMS]

Well duh, it’s Chinese law afterall

[@averagewhiteguy2]

@@FlymanMS What first world countries do you know of that hardly ever prosecute their own people for copyright infringement, but go out of their way to prosecute other people for it?

[@conorfromouterspace]

@@averagewhiteguy2 idk but it's based

[@averagewhiteguy2]

@@conorfromouterspace I would agree, but I hate the Chinese, so I won't call it based.

[@LucMantique]

@@averagewhiteguy2 White people always get their way while people of color are oppressed and stolen of their creative property.

[@In.New.York.I.Milly.Rock.]

Bro really looked at his old content and was like "I can do better". Chad energy.

[@hbcreates8355]

even though the last video was great, this one certinatly shoes vast improvement and such. 10/10

[@slow_start]

LOL. You're too kind man, glad to see you've stuck around :')

[@slow_start]

@@hbcreates8355 I strive to keep improving, so thank you for saying that!

[@Vaniity_Velvet]

Copy-Right laws in China exist* But they exist almost exclusively at the betterment of Chinese People. Implying it's never actually fair. In the rest of the entire world this entire case would have been thrown out for how stupid it is, but Zhu is a Chinese Man suing a Western Company in China. This exact same case has played out hundreds if not thousands of times over the last 30 years in China and most of the time they are just as idiotic and somehow the person with no real case at all wins.

[@ALE199-ita]

the reason is simple, China has removed the individual from the collective, there is no "Person in China", China views the people as part of the nation, if the people do well, china does well, if the people get humiliated, china gets humiliated. America and litterly most nations in the world have the individual and the state seperate, if an American does something stupid like scam millions with fake blood testing invetion, nobody will look at america as "The nation that allowed that to happend" more like "This person who happends to be american, did that horrible thing" in China if someone does something bad, let's just say that either china sides with you or makes you disappear before you cause china public image to take an hit. so in the first case it was very much skewed to Zhu, he's chinise, he made something popular in china, saying "Oh yeah this lawsuit is stupid" makes whole of china looks stupid as resault so they had the sham trial to claim "No, it's the dirty capitalist westernern that steal from us proud chinise, they must apologize!" unfortunatly with the second trial that they thought they'd win again, they forgot that US lawyers are not stupid and the second time around they played China game and china well they just couldn't win no matter how sham the trial was.

[@jimh781]

Fun fact, part of my online monikers, Etrius, comes from a Stick Page animation called the Castle Series, probably the most lore rich and thrilling narrative I found, idk if its ever been ported so it may be lost with flash.

[@purplehaze2358]

Imagine trying to sue a major company over the use of a doodle archetype that literal children draw while bored.

[@FlymanMS]

Based ikr

[@SnoFitzroy]

so did you like, ignore Zhu's argument completely?

[@darknes4150]

@@SnoFitzroy the argument of "no guys im really popular on the internet trust me" hes a hack

[@htpkey]

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[@htpkey]

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[@MarcusGronkowski]

Wasn’t this video already uploaded? I remember watching it on this channel a few months ago

[@gamorean4903]

It’s a remaster

[@slow_start]

Almost completely rewritten with over 10 minutes of new information and context!

[@MrMiller27]

Funny, I was hoping to see a new video when I looked on here today and lucky me haha 🙏🏻 can’t wait dude.

[@kaitlyn__L]

That angry Nike-mouthed smiley is utter perfection

[@bebussound7991]

Another upload lets go! This channel is going places

[@slow_start]

Thank you dude!

[@sirmateo75]

Nick, you have incredible comedic timing and your videos are professionally done. Well done, amigo. I subscribed and look forward to future videos. Cheers! 👍

[@slow_start]

Thank you Matthew for taking the time to send such a kind comment! This kind of feedback keeps me inspired to push my content further. Much appreciated!

[@dan_loeb]

my understanding was that xaio xaio meant short short or to say, a very short animated short film.

[@ErectedGasCan]

Stickman games and movies were the shit when i took my first steps into computing on Win 95 and 98 in school. 🤘🏼 Also the crazy frog sound before it was crazy frog.

[@prestoyobesto]

Your videos are amazing. Super high quality and entertaining. I hope you succeed and keep growing fast. (fast start)

[@slow_start]

Thank you so much!

[@eliotguerin192]

Stick figure death theater is a deep memory from my childhood, and I’m so happy you dug it up! 😂 My dad actually showed me the site at first. He was 43 and I was 8 but it was right up my alley

[@lostinthemasses]

Holy shit dude, I used to watch all the stickdeath videos back in 97-99.

[@chairshoe81]

this is truly the lawsuit of flash game history

[@jcampo89]

“Bongiorno… I’m in-a-France watching-a Big Mouth” . Bro’s in France speaking Italian.

[@LucyKosaki]

0:23 holy, that alien animation! I haven't seen that in 25 years, now that brought back memories I didnt even know I had

[@ebanksstudios]

I was expecting this to be the other way around

[@cookieface80]

They sided with the animator because he's Chinese and suing an American company.

"i guess some things never change" indeed lol

[@cemeterywe4ther]

u can't forget how ppl def used the program "styx" for a lot of those animations. it's literally a program for animating & making ur own stick figures. it was THE BEST pastime in computer class

[@JLFB4316]

13:48 Attacked his life points directly LOL

[@sleepy0]

18:18 see, this is where I disagree, because the others who copied his style did so on a non-profit or little profit basis. Not something most creators care about. Nike, on the other hand..

[@beowolfxz3163]

also, chinese law is always in favour of chinese against foreigners

[@Bonehead_V]

Something I'm surprised that didn't come up was the fact that both Stickmen were different mediums entirely, CGI vs 2D. Also the proportions and mannerisms of the stick figures are very different, and on top of that, Xiao Xiao tended to have eyes, while the Nike one did not. Quite a silly court case‼️

[@JuanRodriguez-ce8vs]

China suing for copyright infringement... I find the irony delicious.

[@bunnerkins]

RING RING RING RING RING RING RING BANANAPHONE DO DO DADO DADO

[@mister54336.]

Here's another topic you can talk about flash games from newgrounds There's one fan-game that is a tribute to DmC games, its called Fear Unlimited (including it's prequels called issue 1 and 2) it had a different story and its very dark, try give it a shot and see what you think.

[@AlphaFlight]

Those sound super autisticaky

[@TheNerdstalgicPodcast]

Videos like this is why i love this odd place we call youtube ❤🎉

[@slow_start]

too kind!!

[@TheNerdstalgicPodcast]

@@slow_start your welcome, you pulled me in with shrek and I've been catching up with the rest of your stuff, all fantastic and im excited to see what comes next

[@Moto_Medics]

I still have flash on my Mac I refuse to go through with that prompt that pops up every time I turn it on I’ll never let go!!!

[@AsthmaBlows]

Your content is really good. Can't stop watching. I just found out about you yesterday.

[@slow_start]

Thank you!

[@ryedergrenier3561]

I remember making stick videos. I completely forgot about that. Thanks for the memories

[@renpy333]

GOOD VIDEO! I REALLY LIKED THE EDITING!

[@slow_start]

Thank you!

[@Ramonatho]

Governments all over the world are truly wild. Making that dude pay 8 grand for the trial, as if Nike or China couldn't have covered the cost of a minor dispute, is wild.

[@nitehawk86]

"set the bar for what stick animation is capable of" Only people around in the early 2000s can really appreciate that brilliant statement. :)

[@TaleOfTheToaster]

I think I’ve never seen a video which so precisely demonstrates the cut off point of me getting involved with the internet, I must’ve been around 2005 or 2006 looking at the library of works that already existed on Newgrounds and definitely caught some brand new episodes of Super Mario Bros Z at the time, but I clearly missed the stick man era, fascinating

[@fgk44]

To be fair, if anyone tries to use my intellectual property (or something that looks oddly similar) for commercial gain, I would be pissed. But, if they're doing it without the intention of commercial gain, I'll most certainly allow it.

[@zuntata7860]

YOUR CHANNEL BOOMIN

[@Atheist7]

13:42 Dread "EXHIBET C".... so damning!!! LOL!

[@WolfHagenSdW]

Brings back damn many memories..... Maybe time to light one up and dig out the Albinoblacksheep stuff.

[@CushionSapp]

The one stick figure flash movies I remember most fondly were the animator vs animation series

[@lunarmodule6419]

What a story! Interesting! Thank you

[@slow_start]

Thanks as always, Lunar!

[@JDVR69]

Another great video. Loved it!!

[@emerobo]

Xiao xiao is legendary. Honestly, the whole Internet of discovery era was epic. I like where things are now honestly, even with the ubiquity and harms of social media to an extent. But that was just like a truly different error and a different way of engaging with “content”. Most people putting stuff up, did it just because it was cool and they wanted to share it

[@DylanPorto45]

i was like damn Zhu (the producer) made stick games?

[@rodrigomarcondes5857]

Who else remembers an old gif where a stick man figure would try to open a door by throwing bigger and bigger attacks at it? I remember it was everywhere back then

[@Rushon-pj8sk]

xiao xiao was genually cool

[@RandomDude647]

Shoutouts to fluidanims, stickpage and now hyun's dojo!

[@raph3alakalilnemo683]

😭😭me and my friends used to play xiao xiao9 every DAY! 😂 finding out the whole backstory to it is a trip! Your videos,presentation,skits and subject material are phenomenal bro your making some of my favourite stuff on KZbin rn😤🔥

[@slow_start]

Thank you so much dude!

[@joshzuker8308]

Man, I used to love Stickpage lol. It's a shame Zhu decided to go down that path.

[@TriWaZe]

I loved Xaio Xaio as a kid. Didnt even know of this lawsuit though. Crazy

[@knight_lautrec_of_carim]

soo many memories were unlocked by this video

[@TheGodOfAllThatWas]

I feel the closing (@18:14) was a little unfair..... I'd rather describe it as an ill conceived idea that if a stick figure is "original" that somehow you are now the arbiter of where that "originality" must stem from.

[@amentco8445]

The only Renaissance that short content has brought is one of massacring attention spans even further.

[@slow_start]

lol, agreed!

[@arandomidiot1593]

It's not just Newgrounds and Stickpage. Xiao Xiao is archived on Flashpoint as well.

[@BooperDooper-u8p]

It's crazy how you can trademark a fucking stick figure.

[@adammitchell2265]

It's crazy how you can copyright a tick, but Nike did... what's the difference?

[@Thetechnolady007]

xiao xiao was my childhood flash game pleaseeee, one of my faves

[@AE1OU]

Thats rich coming from someone from china where copyright it nigh non-existent

[@tytotheler92]

Dude these are great. Good work.

[@slow_start]

Thanks a ton!

[@arandomidiot1593]

I commented the thing about the floating head before you even got to that point lol

[@Cyb3rDReI]

i'm going to start saying "stick figure argument" when discussing things like frivolous lawsuits bc it reminds me of strawman argument and it's got a very funny backstory that i'll get to explain to folks if they ask what i mean lol

[@Shinji_Dai]

Just hearing the name Macromedia sent my brain through a nostalgia trip.

[@TerkelKoren]

In stick fight the game you get a achievement when you get all the other achievements that is called Xiao Xiao

[@BLXSTVERSE]

He should have called Saul

[@kurux]

i find funny how the physical traits their share are just the rules of animation applied; The added feet are for the feeling of balance and the rounded off apendages are for a friendly appareance (for our brains, a circle shape is commonly associated to friendly or cute things) also both use thick lines for a fluidity matter, cuz they are stickman, thin lines are stiff and you must avoid stiffness in animation saying this, i think the whole lawsuit just born from a dumb coincidence

[@kositarjanko9127]

Nice vid! 😊

[@gvohardcore]

I don't think it's dumb at all and heavily disagree with calling Zhu a frivolous greedy guy.... Imagine you as ab artist putting a spin on a simple concept and creating a viral character tributed by hundreds of people on the internet and beloved by thousands, just so a greedy corporation notice it and decides to make it their own without even giving you credit or compensation... The only reason Nike used the stick man character for marketing was because of Zhu's recognition in the first place. So a huge company steals your form of art, make it their own just to cash rivers of money, and later tries to silence you and take your earned money and you are the villain?? There is debate here to be had, I don't think it's dumb....

[@snufkinsnufkin2528]

How can Nike trademarka swoosh, it's just a tick✅

[@doopythespoopy6995]

I'd have to disagree about the lawsuit being a "cashgrab" even if Zhu was ultimately wrong. If I created an animated character online and multiple other animators used that character for fan animations without seeking profit, I probably wouldn't care. However, if I believed a large corporation had taken my character to use for financial gain without my consent, I'd be far more likely to take legal action. It is a situation of punching up rather than punching down.

[@devilinthewoods3809]

I'm glad all the stick figure drawings I did as a kid were thrown in the trash. I'd hate to get sued for that.

[@ami4705]

What's really bizarre to me is how Nike, a company with hundreds of millions of dollars, is fighting so hard to get a mere $16k. Surely their lawyer fees far outweighed anything they gained?

[@DustyRagu]

Why call the cops when your house has already been robbed. They got sued? Why wouldn't they fight back? You're not just gonna start handing out free money to every maniac who sues you over nothing

[@Legoguy9875]

Never would've thought that such a dumb copyright dispute would come from one of my favorite genres of animation atm. Very interesting, but also quite frustrating. I am happy that stick figure animations continue to thrive despite that though, even beyond the death of Flash. Alan Becker and Gildedguy are two of my favorite animation channels, and they continue to release amazing content.

[@ALE199-ita]

another reason the first lawsuit worked is probably because china isn't exacly fair, when you go for a lawsuit again someone popular in china, you aren't putting them on trial, you are putting the entire nation of China under a spotlight, the man trial is the nations trial, if the man is guilty, the nation is gulity, and China doesn't like being humiliated or have it's reputation tarnished. Reminder that china conflates the private with the public, the individual with the collective. As such the first trial was heavilly skewed towards Zhu as he's chinise and his stuff is popular in china, the second trial unfortunatly for china was so air thight that no amount of sham courts could say that Zhu is in the right.

[@bastiaangoudkamp3644]

I suddenly remember stickfigure death theathre

[@Nylak-Otter]

Flash got me started in animation when it first came out. I was already familiar with digital art programs by then and had a good tablet, so it was just the next logical step in my side hustle of commissioned art. I started with stick figures like everyone else to learn the basics and had some group Flash games on Newgrounds, (I was a teenager, not an animation student), and moved on from there. Good times. But seriously, everyone animated stick figures. You can't copyright a stick man. We all did it. There were always subtle personal differences. The Nike Stick Man had the detached head and it was also a 3D figure (the lines have highlights, and weren't solid black like Zhu's were, which you didn't mention; it wasn't animated in Flash). I feel like you're too young to have personal experience with this era, and now I feel old. 😂

[@ElijahKlar]

Omg i remember the hiding your fart one you showed

[@Mightydoggo]

God, I loved flash games I was hanging around on newgrounds and Armorgames *way* too much for that age. lol Still vividly remember games like Electric man with its dope music, Stick war, or my favorite of course: Stormwinds. I loved everything about that game, the soundtrack, the steampunk aesthetic, the engaging gameplay loop. I still want an actual game like that.

[@gleebismoon]

can somebody please tell me what the tmnt poster is, i am losing my mind over it. i could make out that it's a department of social services poster and it's the " say no to drugs. say yes to pizza " picture but there's more to this one

[@dundercontrol]

Correct me if im wrong, but it sounds like zhu still profited in the short term if he got $36k and only had to pay back $16k when he lost the 2nd time

[@876zion]

Why go after smaller copy cats that 1. Will have minimal impact on your brand 2. Aren't making a crazy amount of money off of you. I think it's too much of a coincidence that the Nike ad came around the same time. They were inspired and should have paid him to use the figure. Seems like a big company yet again stealing from smaller creators smh

[@wowsew]

Bro made the first john wick with stick figures

[@BenCaesar]

WHY IS THERE A JARJAR figurine in your collection 😂😂😂😂

[@orggannick]

came here from dream jelly :)

[@mjrleaguesweetie]

Same

[@rileykatz3680]

same!

[@escaperoutebritish]

Opp opp opp, OPPA XIAO XIAO STYLE... hunhhh