The effects of changing the mast rake on the Hobie 16

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[@TomKirkman1]

Whatever you have to do to get a very slight amount of weather helm is what you want in most instances. And the rudder rake does not affect weather or lee helm, but it can result in easing the resistance on the steering. If you have to hold your rudder off more than about 3 or 4 degrees to maintain straight, your rudder has turned into a brake. Adjust mast rake to fix it.

[@JoyriderTV]

Bingo

[@jamesworks5598]

amazing. i've heard these topics discussed many times but never truly understood it until i watched this video. great work joe!

[@JoyriderTV]

Great to hear! It is a confusing topic. Cheers!

[@Kirmo13]

Great video. Reminds me of the time my friend forgot to use the mast rake! The boom was so low that he had to lay down on the trampoline when tacking or he couldn't pass on the other side. 😂

[@JoyriderTV]

Ha, yes, that would possibly be a bit low!

[@renxxxxx]

Just what we needed, thanks again Joe

[@JoyriderTV]

Very welcome

[@chrisbeauchamp5563]

Another great vid, thanks Joe it's great to have the rake explained especially in regard to the net result of the centre of effort

[@JoyriderTV]

Thanks 👍

[@GearreportdotCom]

Great timing. I’ve been wondering about this!

[@JoyriderTV]

I just seem to know when people need to know this kind of thing!

[@haydenpruitt5199]

Extremely helpful thank you Joe

[@JoyriderTV]

Very welcome

[@JohnSmith-gn4sh]

Thanks! I am "brand new" to sailing and have thoroughly enjoyed your teaching and exhibition.

[@JoyriderTV]

Thanks very much!! Welcome aboard!

[@Nishimachi_Photography]

Thanks for this. I didn't realise it made such a difference. I'll be making some adjustments on my Caper Cat when this summer approaches.

[@JoyriderTV]

Glad it helped!

[@amirmograbi]

Thank you for this video Joe, I mistakenly thought that the forestay needs to be taut, but now I'm going to relax it and rely on the jib and do some experimentation with the mast rake.

[@JoyriderTV]

Glad it was helpful! The rig should be pretty tight but as you said, that tension should come from the jib. (not on all catamarans - just the 16 and others that have a jib with a wire luff)

[@alandejonge6473]

Nice work & information Joe .... the sweet spot will definitely vary as team weight increases 👍

[@JoyriderTV]

For sure!

[@malcolmstitt6281]

Well done, Joe! Thanks.

[@JoyriderTV]

You're welcome!

[@jetstreek17]

Great information.. Thanks Joe

[@JoyriderTV]

Glad it was helpful!

[@charlesboiffin5136]

Super explanation thank you very much love your channel amazing discovery!!

[@JoyriderTV]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@michaelmarzolf6539]

A+ Thanks again Joe!

[@JoyriderTV]

My pleasure!

[@markthatcher4853]

Excellent explanation joe 👍

[@JoyriderTV]

Thanks 👍

[@xXxINtERNAti0NAlxXx]

Thank you. It help me with my New boat ❤

[@JoyriderTV]

Happy to hear that!

[@srgpip]

Excellent info as alway Joe, thanks buddy :-)

[@JoyriderTV]

No problem 👍

[@Aheitchoo]

Awesome, thank you

[@JoyriderTV]

You're welcome!!

[@wilmot0]

I appreciate the physics explanation 👍

[@JoyriderTV]

No problem!

[@danilmarinaio9539]

Thank you for this video and - especially - for mentioning the "Rudderless" one - which I had totally missed So... thank you twice 😉

[@steveanderson1376]

I don't see an episode called 'Rudderless' in the index. Where can we find it?

[@danilmarinaio9539]

@@steveanderson1376 Here it is: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j3jXXoR5pJutqKs

[@JoyriderTV]

Yes the Index needs updating - i haven't yet put anything on there from this year. Maybe it's time to take on that big job!

[@kobot23]

Very helpful

[@JoyriderTV]

Glad it helped

[@truthseeker471]

Good info...for us newbies

[@JoyriderTV]

Glad it was helpful!

[@brentcork201]

Thanks, very interesting. One thought is that any adjustment that causes more rudder input causes more drag.

[@JoyriderTV]

Yeah for sure - it's perhaps a little ambiguous but i think if you get the mast in the right spot for your crew weight that will be indicated by the rudders feeling right.

[@brentcork201]

@Feeds Ravens I did not think of the aspect ratio perspective. Good call.

[@chrisfisichella7665]

That was interesting. I didn't know the rake was used to balance the boat forces.

[@JoyriderTV]

Yes, It really makes a difference to the feel of the boat.

[@JamesDonatelli]

Hey Joe, yes a very interesting video and a valuable topic to understand! As you know, many Hobie 16 owners have older models that have the old jib system rather than the Aussie system as shown on your demo boat. It may be helpful to 1) explain if the same adjustments of forward and back rake is possible with the older jib system and if not and if the Aussie Jib system would be a logical upgrade for a Hobie owner looking to get a bit more tuning performance from an older boat. 2) I would also like to see how the boat geometry looks like before putting up the jib. Is the mast racked far back and then brought forward as the jib is raised? I have an 1987 Hobie 16 that I am considering replacing the old jib system with the Aussie System and I am seeking to understand the differences and the benefits of the Aussie system. There must be benefits as all newer boats now have the Aussie jib system. Thanks again for your informative videos!

[@JoyriderTV]

Hi James, the jib halyard system doesn't make any difference to the settings, it just makes it a little easier to pull the tension on. With the jib down the angle of the mast just depends on the length of the forestay - but that is loose once the jib is up so it's not so much of a concern - on our boats the masts are extremely loose until the jib goes up

[@cumminsscout]

I've sailed a fair amount with the older Hobie 16 upright rig and it doesn't feel unbalanced. I will try more rake and see what I think.

[@JoyriderTV]

I will be interested to hear what you think

[@steveanderson1376]

The older boats before about 1985 didn't have adjustable rudder rake, and are most comfortable with the mast further forward. When you rake the mast back, you typically adjust the rudders forward to cancel the heavy weather helm. My boat is a 1979, and am using more rake for racing so that I can point higher and less likely to pitchpole, but I can't adjust my rudders, so I am constantly fighting the helm, which I *think* is costing me speed.

[@thomasmaier7053]

Highly educational! The graphics helped out a lot! We're sailing an older Hobie 16 with the rake as far forwards as we can get it. It'll still turn into the wind like crazy when letting off the tiller. Any guess what that could be?

[@JoyriderTV]

I would guess that you're rudders are not locking down fully

[@thomasmaier7053]

@@JoyriderTV I'll check that! Cheers for the input, love the channel, as always!

[@flutterdev8703]

Also feel like the boat gets more lively/twitchy when the mast is moved forward. I usually use it on light winds

[@JoyriderTV]

For sure, It really turns it on.

[@Konfliktloeser]

...Thanks for that Joe... so that means as long as I have no Lee Helm or lots of Weather Helm the Mast rake on my katamaran seems to be OK (so it works the same on the C2 as big Brother/Sister of my Taipan)?

[@JoyriderTV]

Yes, if you don't have lee helm then your mast is not too far forward. It is worth experimenting with putting it a little further back when it's windy to see if you prefer the feel of the boat.

[@Konfliktloeser]

@@JoyriderTV OK -thanks for the advice - I'll give it a try... and keep on Your valuable an great Job with Your Videos ... always again very helpfull

[@jcjaramillomo]

Fist apologies for my lack of technical terminology but since I moved the rake of my Nacra 14sq (it does have centreboards) forwards things have improved for the better. Initially, I had a lot of rake back as I was afraid of digging the nose, and on the high winds, I was getting a lot "the tail" moving away and the boat point to the wind. Since I moved the rake forward, yes I am more prompt to dig the nose, but the SPEED went up like CRAZY. And I was able to push the boat harder upwind. My guess is that if you have the weight (fat ass) to balance the boat and experience, move the rake forward and send it!!!

[@JoyriderTV]

Ha! Yes, that's very interesting that you gained so much speed. Nice one!

[@jcjaramillomo]

Hey joe! If i know your style... You should put the mast rake crazy vertical and do a video about it. It will be "absolutely" fantastic ;) to know your live sailing comments.

[@bigbensgarags]

If you guys have a hobby 21 is it possible that you can make a video on the pros and cons because I’m looking to buy one but I can’t find much information on them more like video information I just showing them off thanks

[@JoyriderTV]

We don't have one but what i know is: Pros - big fast powerfull Cons Big heavy difficult to right after a capsize

[@hectorsanz8370]

Hi Joseph! Thanks for the video, really nice explanation. Let me do a question, for a light crew (117-120 kg) first hole for the shroud. But, does also applies if we put weight on the boat to accomplish min weight (129,5 kg) during official competitions? Or in this case is better to go to the 2nd hole? Thanks a lot!

[@JoyriderTV]

I would go for 2nd hole - If it's light wind, with your rig tension on it should be a very strong pull to get it block to block - if it's to easy, your mast is too far back.

[@hectorsanz8370]

@@JoyriderTV thanks! We will try and let you know! 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻

[@mnelson56]

Does a touch of weather helm reduce leeway a bit on the asymmetrical hulls of the Hobie 14 and 16?

[@JoyriderTV]

Yes, just a touch. Too much will start to cause drag.

[@allans7281]

The big reason for raking the mast as far back as you Is that it lifts the bows up to prevent them from being buried

[@JoyriderTV]

That is also a major benefit on the 16 of course.

[@lesteranddonna]

Get as much rake as you can but remember if you don’t have enough leech tension on the main your boat will not point !

[@JoyriderTV]

That's all you need to know in a nutshell!

[@ericmeyn4380]

Will the aft mast rake allow the boat to point higher or just make it easier to steer close to the wind?

[@JoyriderTV]

It's a fine balance but yes and yes - it should allow you to point higher.

[@jonmccauley6490]

I had too much rake over the weekend. I definitely had a lot of weather helm and the boom could easily go block to block. Could this be causing my issues trying to tack?

[@JoyriderTV]

Yes. In fact this is a good one - I'll talk about in today's Q+A

[@jonmccauley6490]

@@JoyriderTV Thanks, will tune in for it.

[@tomtobias1154]

Does this also apply to older boats made in 1985 with a crew weight of 140 kilos?

[@JoyriderTV]

I don't see why not although i think the length of the rigging might influence what is possible.

[@niekhaan7971]

Do you reccomend parallel rudders or Some mm apart?

[@JoyriderTV]

It's all here - kzbin.info/www/bejne/a4qQiXx5pb15qdk

[@lesteranddonna]

About 5mm tow in !

[@JohnSmith-gn4sh]

If the mast is too far forward...will the bows be prone to submerging?

[@JoyriderTV]

It will put more pressure on the bows, yes.

[@PickledShark]

Can’t you just move your weight farther forward to bury the forward half of the Hulls more deeply, thereby moving the center of lateral resistance farther foreword?

[@JoyriderTV]

You would do that as well.

[@NoahJohnson7452]

how do you adjust the mast rake?

[@JoyriderTV]

here you go: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bnWWfKlpqsyDnrs

[@Bm6463]

Have You ever adjusted the rake on the water in between races?

[@JoyriderTV]

No. I've adjusted rig tension on the water many times. It sometimes takes a few goes to find the sweet spot

[@Bm6463]

@Joseph Bennett too scary to pull the pin out and move 1 notch up or down? Or just didn't need to?