Common tacking mistakes

[@westotron]

Great video as always! One other failure mode that I struggled with was “stabbing” the rudders too quickly. Slow and steady is a game changer.

[@JoyriderTV]

For sure! Thanks

[@jonmccauley6490]

Thank you sooooo much for this video! Probably the best one you've made yet for a beginner like me. I'm an experienced monohull sailor, but trying to get cats to tack is still something I struggle with every time.

[@JoyriderTV]

I'm very glad that this was helpful. I hope that you're tacks improved as a result!

[@flintridgedesigninc.1351]

This is one of the best instructive videos I've seen to date! Great job JOE!!!!

[@JoyriderTV]

Wow, thanks! I'm glad that it was helpful.

[@matejv2840]

I said it before and I will say it again, you are a truly amazing guy - great content. Thanks!

[@JoyriderTV]

Wow, thanks!

[@violinjim]

I would add, and it's probably been said below, that you need to let the jib stay to backwind the bow across until the tells point at the corner casting. Then pop the jib over. I completely failed every tack I made my first summer until I learned this. And it's different for H18's and Getaways as you can sit on the back corner and help pivot the boat around in light winds.

[@JoyriderTV]

Yes, thanks for that. Very helpful

[@bostjanlaba]

This one is golden! Tacking is not an easy thing without a lot of practice. This video says it all. I've bought a XCAT from row&sail, not some race machine but ideal to throw on the roof of a car and take along. Special thing is when you tack with it, you just go into the wind, letting rudder go, stand up, go up front to the mast and the cat turns by itself :) this is so nice in super light winds. No idea if Hobie and other minicats do that aswell.

[@JoyriderTV]

I haven't heard of that technique. Sounds worth a try though.

[@bostjanlaba]

@@JoyriderTV kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJuykJqbbpyihNU

[@bostjanlaba]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/jaDOZXWkbMSGmJo

[@vfr0391]

I was taught couple of extra things, J or Hook turn is useful where you start the tack slowly carrying speed into the turn then speed up the rate of turn as you go through, and only releasing the jib when main batten have popped over which blows the nose round quicker. Useful pointers though in the video for my next sailing hols 😀

[@JoyriderTV]

Thanks for the tips!

[@davearonow65]

Wow! What a help! Going to practice these this weekend. My most frustrating part of hobie 16 sailing, having random success or non success with tacking because I've been largely just guessing at what I'm doing. This answered so many questions I had and answer3d questions I didn't even know I had. Thanks Joe!

[@mikebutler6022]

Was the same for myself. Practice this and you will rarely, even on supper windy days, blow a tack. I sail on a small inland lake and at times am almost up against the shore with no out if the tack fails. Confidence builds quickly, I find now light wind is trickier than heavy winds.

[@JoyriderTV]

I hope that it ups your success rate!

[@JoyriderTV]

Yes, possibly more finesse required in the light stuff

[@tammielattman3314]

Thanks Joe! Very good explanations as usual. Could you give us some tips about how to position ourselves when there are two persons on the boat?

[@JoyriderTV]

Yes, for sure. Coming soon

[@robertosgood961]

Good refresher just in time!

[@JoyriderTV]

I hope that it helps!

[@wasserwasser5555]

great! we learned it centered around the jib changing belly side

[@JoyriderTV]

Great stuff!

[@colboyhell]

Great video!! Love them. Must admit, at the beginning, thought you were going down the road of "We're going to discuss why you're tacks are sshhhiii...not successful"😂😂😂

[@JoyriderTV]

Thanks! 🤩

[@massimoparodi456]

Great video! Many thanks from a new catamaran owner!

[@JoyriderTV]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@williamhenglein5770]

Went on a lake in western Oklahoma with high winds with a Laser 2. Had a passenger with little sailing experience so tried to lower the sail area by not using the jib. Could not tack at all. Side stay broke, got towed back in. Called a friend who said some boats require jobs to tack. I assumed since a Laser(1) didn’t have a jib I didn’t need it. Next time I went out put the jib up. Never had a problem tacking. Live and learn.

[@JoyriderTV]

Yeah, oh dear. That sounds like quite an emotional experience. Good way of learning though.

[@justinketcheside3186]

Thank you for making this video.

[@JoyriderTV]

Glad it was helpful!

[@jwfbean]

I took a Hobie Wave out today after not having sailed much for over ten years and never having sailed a hobie, only dinghies. I ran into every one of these issues. One other thing that threw me was in dinghy sailing you’re taught to stay facing forward through the tack. I notice you’re butt forward on every tack in this video, even the successful ones. I guess this is just part of hobie sailing? Another thing I noticed was that it was hard for me to switch sides while keeping hands on both the tiller and the main sheet. I’d love a video focusing just on this aspect of tacking a hobie.

[@JoyriderTV]

Yes, facing backward is the way of the catamaran. I'll see about making a video focusing on the hand change.

[@feedingravens]

2): for me it made a massive difference that when I crawled over and released the mainsheet, I pushed up the boom with my back. Costs no extra time, and you have lots of power pushing up on all fours. 4). Moving around on the boat and not affecting the rudders is a classic for my proposal for training that intentionally, on the mooring, on land, maybe even on a "sailing simulator" (boat firmly secured. Ten minutes moving from side to side again and again, concentrating on keeping the rudders unchanged, and you have that almost automatic for years to come. What is the essence? You have to keep your hands (rudderhand or sheethand) while moving your body (wildly) around. One just has to realize that, then one can train that at first awkward movement in many instances. Take your wineglass, hold it in front of you and "dance around it", keeping the glass in one place all the time. The trick is that for that multiple joints (wrist, elbow, shoulder) have to move SIMULTANEOUSLY in a coordinated fashion to enable no movement or a linear movement.

[@JoyriderTV]

There it is! I'll be dancing around my pint glass!

[@daanvangeijlswijk7787]

@@JoyriderTV Don't forget to fill it to the max for extra balance skills...that might even get you through a police check...

[@JoyriderTV]

@@daanvangeijlswijk7787 Oh yes!!

[@guyjacob5157]

Very descriptive and helpful! What about turning the rudders too far over? Is there a sweet spot for how far the rudders should be turned when tacking?

[@JoyriderTV]

The best is to sail the boat up into the wind and then once head to wind increasing the rate of turn. One major cause of a fail is when the rudders are allowed to centralise mid tack.

[@guyjacob5157]

@@JoyriderTV Good to hear from you, Joseph, and thank you. I generally don't fail tacks, and I don't allow rudders to centralise mid tack. But at times I wonder if when I push the rudders over all the way to the point where they can't go any further if I might be stalling the boat. By the way, after you retire, if you're interested in visiting Long Island, I have a vacation rental unit I can set you up in and take lessons from you. while you're here.

[@stephenclemmet1926]

Great stuff. I don't think I'm imagining this, but the boat (Hobie 16) is slow coming off the wind if the jib is backed for too long. I think of it as a windsurfer; sheet in is akin to leaning the rig to the back to go up wind. To come off the wind, let off the main sheet to use the jib. Akin to leaning the rig rig across front of a windsurf board. But what if, horror of horrors, you don't have a jib? In any regard, if the boat turns around and you''re still on it, then it's a good tack, no matter how sloppy it is.

[@JoyriderTV]

Keeping the gym in on the original side for longer is good Insurance to make sure you get through the wind. As soon as through the wind, the best is to bring the gym across and slowly sheet in as the boat starts to move forwards. On a boat without a job like the 14, it just requires even better technique.

[@AlbaAdventures]

Funny as we have been cat sailing Hobie Getaways which are fun and the 1st time we had all kinds of issue tacking, a bit different than how you would on a keelboat though similar enough. We eventually figured out that pulling the main in before the tack helped tremendously. The one thing we had issues with though was shifting light wind while getting off an island yesterday, in fact to it as well. Anyway, this was a timely video for our feed. Thanks.. Will check your edit on capsizing cats.

[@JoyriderTV]

Yes, it's even better when you work it out for yourself@ Cheers

[@aceintheholevideos]

Sometimes I fail due to loss of rudder angle as I'm crawling under the boom. I noticed that on one of yours also. Shocking how fast a cat looses momentum had how much drag those hulls have while turning compared with monohull when you first start sailing a cat.

[@JoyriderTV]

Yeah for sure - forcing the two hulls to go different distances an different angles really put the brakes on.

[@Paddy3101]

Excellent video. Can you possible do a comparison with a tiger for instance, which seems to be very difficult to mess up a tack. Not down to my "exceptional" skills, tried to deliberately mess up tacks like your video this weekend and it was just very forgiving, just working every time. Beam reach to Beam reach, no problem (apart from sliding across the tramp and nearly off the other side!)

[@JoyriderTV]

Yes, i'll have a look and see what i can come up with.

[@2002TouringMOE]

I use the reverse method but instead of trying again, I would turn the boat enough for the jib to catch in the opposite side. I would also loosen the traveler to completely kill all main sail efficiency until the turn is complete. The tack is completed with jib only.

[@JoyriderTV]

Nice, thanks for sharing!

[@mr987mike]

Would love to see some foiling

[@JoyriderTV]

Me too! Just need a boat equipped!

[@daanvangeijlswijk7787]

This was the most helpful video on catsailing I've had, thanks a lot! I have one question. I sail a Hawke 13 Surfcat. This is often sailed without jib when used solo. I prefer using the jib though also solo. My jib has the fastner (this is probably not nautical english) right next to where you sit. When you tacked, to release it, it is on the downwind side of the boat. Reaching for it creates a big capsizing risk. What would you advice as a tacking method? Thanks!

[@JoyriderTV]

Hi Daan, I'll talk about this in today's Q+A Cheers

[@daanvangeijlswijk7787]

@@JoyriderTV Thanks! I will try sweeping it out of the clamp, but I don't think it's possible with this clamp. Great this q & a by the way.

[@alext6220]

Thanks for this very helpfull video. I start struggling as soon there are smaller waves 0.5m as they slow down the turn push the hulls back. Any advise on that? Thanks Alex

[@JoyriderTV]

I'll talk about this in today's Q+A

[@daleyoung87]

Another great video!

[@JoyriderTV]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@danifolgado]

Nice tips. From my experience on my Hobie 16 and especially if you sail solo (less boat inertia), the stronger the wind the harder it is to get the jib passing that line at pushing the front of the boat for a successful tacking. Usually the waves that come with stronger winds do not help either. I would even say that from a certain wind force, may be 10-15 knots, tacking becomes too difficult to even bother loose time making multiple attempts.

[@JoyriderTV]

Thanks for sharing, from what i've seen from many many sailors, the usual reason for failing in the strong wind is not sheeting in hard enough

[@daanvangeijlswijk7787]

@@JoyriderTV I recognise that, with a lot of wind, it is counter intuitive to sheet in too much.

[@cvanscho]

Very informative video! One aspect that seems to be at variance with monohull tacking, is that, in lighter conditions, bearing off a bit first to get more boat speed on a monohulll usually helps giving you more momentum and rudder authority to get through the turn. This is the opposite of your advice to start off with the cat as close to the wind as possible before initiating a tack. Does this not risk the cat losing speed so that it doesn't respond to rudder input as well as it would if you were slightly more off the wind? Thoughts?

[@JoyriderTV]

On the catamaran it's more important to reduce the turning angle as there is so much resistance due to the two hulls turning different amounts. You hardly need any speed to tack a cat - just the smallest angle and max tension on the mainsheet.

[@cvanscho]

@@JoyriderTV Thanks! That's a very useful and valuable reply!

[@PregnyChambesy]

Joe --another amazing video. Thank you. back in the day Rick White had some nice videos on various aspects of Hobie sailing. It was VHS and DVD era (before you were born 🙂). He had one on a "roll tack" that included helm and crew movements (the crew guy was like a spider or monkey or a spider monkey in terms of agility). Would love to see a Q and A on it or your modernized video discussion--my sense is that helm and crew movement is key and part of the delicate tack ballet, especially with heavier crew. Works well in lower winds as when wind is up and there are waves resting on windward longer before crossing over can get you in trouble.. The other videos that could be useful are racing rules and regs in real time on the water, especially at the mark, but I digress and I know that you already probably have your fill of "hmm, when you have a moment could you answer my question with another amazing video?"...hahahaha

[@JoyriderTV]

Thanks, I'll certainly look into the roll tack crew movements and see if I can explain it. Cheers

[@stevenvachon9745]

I find it easier to tack in light winds and have blown more tacks in heavier winds because of #5, traveler out too far. Because I solo on a 16, there is a lot to do in heavy winds....turn into the wind, pull the traveler in, turn a little harder, wait for the jib to flap, release the main, move over, move traveler out, straighten rudders, release and move jib over, sheet in and trap out. I sometimes get lazy and try keeping the traveler out but keeping it sheeted in. This sometimes works but often is why I blow the tack and have to push the boom out while reversing the rudders to complete the tack.

[@JoyriderTV]

Thanks for that, it's good to know what happens in real world tacking.

[@jentjeb2370]

A problem I have experienced is steering to sharp into the wind, thus braking to much and not succeeding in the tack. By steering gently into the wind an keeping a constant angle on the rudders you keep more speed getting you better through the wind.

[@JoyriderTV]

Great tip, thanks. A bit of subtlety goes a long way

[@khadanse-DJ-KHA]

Hi Joe thanks again! concerning position if single handed: a Friend told me is important to be as far as possible in the front of the catamaran. I never heard that befor. your toughts ?

[@JoyriderTV]

That's a great point for this week's Q+A (Friday at 1730 Greek time) Cheers

[@jakeoddmonic2956]

I’m going to the lake and practice this, I downloaded it so it will play!

[@JoyriderTV]

Great stuff. Good luck!

[@stephencaley4185]

Should you all ways especially when solo not move across until the boom has switched sides?

[@JoyriderTV]

The time to move is always the moment that you are head to wind - indicated on a bot with a jib by the jib backing.

[@NightingaleSash]

Hi Joe, love the videos you do! They're extremely useful. Want to get into sailing the Hobie 16 and your videos are the best. Hopefully after the summer when Johnny comes back I can try to put the practical knowledge to use. Would learning most of the practical before I get out on the water help at all? Also, what are the key knots that I should learn/know? Thanks for the videos, keep it up 🤙🏻

[@JoyriderTV]

I think that looking at the practical lessons on here is a good idea before you start - everything will feel a bit more familiar that way. Knots for sailors kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y5-1d3WwbciMm7s and here's your reading list: Basics of Cat Sailing kzbin.info/www/bejne/rqTbfp-Yn6qgY80 What's most important while sailing kzbin.info/www/bejne/f2HTlnqNr75nldE Power control, which way to steer kzbin.info/www/bejne/a5W4fZaZo86ZaNU Landing with onshore wind kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKHTl2iba69joZI Landing with Cross shore wind kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4mTpYCHr7Knfq8 Capsize righting - from full inversion kzbin.info/www/bejne/fqOsZJVqecR9ndE Man Overboard! kzbin.info/www/bejne/bojTZJmvZsdlptk How to get back on kzbin.info/www/bejne/o5PSnXmAhtqFkJo Safety kzbin.info/www/bejne/hmfdgatmnKeZgq8 How to trapeze kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGPYZGehpLllb8U Fundamentals of tacking kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJjad2CLnN-DbZY Fundamentals of Gybing kzbin.info/www/bejne/sGe5eHapptijldE Upwind Technique H16 kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWHVdIqPp5itd9E Downwind technique H16 kzbin.info/www/bejne/e4bVp2qnapyDeZo Basic rules of the road kzbin.info/www/bejne/bJOvXn2ig9eoopY Beginner sailing lesson 1 kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4PMYpyqbdpkfsU Beginner sailing lesson 2 kzbin.info/www/bejne/imivmoyNmrmibNk How to sail in all winds kzbin.info/www/bejne/rWWmqaCLoJprjM0 Light wind gybing kzbin.info/www/bejne/nH2roY19msief8U Light wind tacking kzbin.info/www/bejne/fHrQgJqubd5kp6M High wind Gybing kzbin.info/www/bejne/qHOZZ4preM95rLc Using the launching trolley kzbin.info/www/bejne/r3WwZp-Yer6Zg68 How to stop/park kzbin.info/www/bejne/rH2yqpihhcuIlZI First time crewing kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWiylKyJqt-Cn7c

[@NightingaleSash]

@@JoyriderTV Thanks! 😄

[@feedingravens]

@@NightingaleSash My idea what one could try out and report whether it helped: Mark out a H16-trampoline on the carpet and practice moving about on it. Of course crossing the boat in the tack. Add a fake boom, a broomstick laid over the seats of two chairs to duck under. When you are in the middle, pretend to open the cleat and hand over the tiller. Find out your most efficient way how you have to sit to start this movement easily, without having to rearrange yourself, losing time, losing control at a critical time. In my opinion, repeating that multiple times, you get your BODY learn that, so that you do not have to think about that. Meaning when you think of tacking, you will just sit "automatically" correctly. See how Joe is looking around. He looks to the front, up at the sail, behind him whether there are boats or a gust. That is happening instinctively, again and again in circles. Sit on your carpet tramp, pointing and saying "forward - up - behind" and look where you point. That makes you firm in this control look - and to not look at irrelevant things, like your feet or your hands. You know where those are. How often did I capsize, while I looked at my hands and not what the boat was doing. Later on the water, it is the tip of the lee bow that you should have in vision when you go fast. Practice shifting your seat forward and backward, as you would do for the length trim. As I wrote above, you shoulld not move tiller or sheet, so train to keep the hands steady while moving with the body. Try to get the feeling to do a linear movement with your hand. That trains to seperate directions of movements. Try that in different orientations, maybe with an (untouched) broomstick as reference. I know, sounds idiotic. But look at e.g. a javelin throw, there it is crucial to keep the wrist at the same angle to the ground over the whole throw, or all goes wrong. What helps me enormously is my power in my fingers. I can hold the mainsheet just with my curled fingers, thumb is along the sheet on top. And I can pinch the sheet just with my thumb and index finger. So I can rely that in a gust I can let the sheet slip just a few cms, and then arrest it again. When hauling in more, I can pinch the sheet with two fingers (the other three control the tiller) to let loose and grab more forward. So might be another preparation to have some rope fixed somewhere and test the strength of your fingers. Coiling the sheet around your hand is a risk, to hurt your hand, or to lose control completely. Takes practice and confidence that you can just release one loop while moving your hand back, because you usually never want to release 20 cms at once. So you open your hand and yank it back at the same time, to have pressure on the line immediately again, and then can control how much you want to give out. And if you want, do the whole with your saling partner on your carpet tramp, find out how you can arrange yourself in the maneuvers. Check all the relevant actions you can detect in Joe's videos, and recreate them. E.g. placing a hand there and saying loud "open the jib traveler". So to speak, practice running through a checklist like pilots. And the more items you can add to your carpet Hobie, the better. And if it is just some objects to indicate the dimensions of the tramp or the location of fittings. But maybe you find a way to have some makeshift tiller to imitate the movement, or some ropes you can grab - whatever you think is important for you. I am a nerd, I have an obsession for details, to make myself aware of what is EXACTLY going on. I can understand that this can get annoying. But setting up what I mean takes surely less time than reading this pamphlet. And maybe it helps. If it avoids one capsize, it was worth it.

[@NightingaleSash]

@@feedingravens Wow that's quite a response and I wasn't expecting it.😂 Thanks for taking the time to reply! I'll try this out soon and I'm sure that it'll work out in the end ✌🏻

[@ARMASARMY]

Very good

[@JoyriderTV]

Thanks

[@biologieks1918]

I had more sucess if i bring my body more in front of the cat. Than it turns more easily. Auf Deutsch: Ich hatte gute Erfahrung bei der Wende wenn ich das Gewicht nach vorne zum Mast verlagere. Der Cat dreht dann leichter wenn der Bug belastet ist. Vielen Dank mr. Bennett für die tollen Videos

[@JoyriderTV]

Thanks very much. Good tip.

[@researchcapt]

In a nutshell, you can't jam down on the rudders like you can with a monohull. You also need a degree of boat speed and you want to let the jib backwind until you are on the next tack.

[@JoyriderTV]

More great tips. Thanks!

[@MM-mh6nv]

Does the technique similar to normal sail boat like laser or topper?

[@JoyriderTV]

In principle, yes, If you use these points you'll be tacking better than most!

[@masonallen3901]

No, this technique does not apply to monohaul, tacking a cat is a whole different beast, 4 times harder, 4 times faster, 4 times the excitement.....

[@JoyriderTV]

@@masonallen3901 however, if you apply the points talked about here to monohull sailing , your tacks will be better.

[@jpegjake]

if you dont turn enough still seems to be the only problem, but I guess we are talking more specific conditions

[@JoyriderTV]

Yes, some cats are more difficult than others to tack. I think the most important is mainsheet for success every time.

[@MotoDUDEabides]

Might i suggest a simple tacking video? Like “step 1, do this, step 2 do this…” break it down into as few of steps as possible for the basics to build on. I always liked numbered steps process while learning. Then I can count as I go in the beginning.

[@JoyriderTV]

I made this one kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJjad2CLnN-DbZY But having had a look at it - maybe I should remake that video next. Thanks

[@MotoDUDEabides]

@@JoyriderTV thanks!

[@ironhorse3497]

LMAO !!!! Joe, i've done this many times.. It's way funnier to watch you do it though... ;)

[@JoyriderTV]

🤩

[@dzaddy]

0:17 catamaran moment

[@JoyriderTV]

🤩

[@jcjaramillomo]

Reason No 1 you have a NACRA 12SQ with no jib

[@JoyriderTV]

Ha! That would be the same reason for a Hobie 14 with no jib

[@robinpatterson8754]

get a power boat. stop. get a [power boat. stop get a power boat. sailing is not for you.

[@JoyriderTV]

Ha! Yes, you would solve all of these issues with an engine!