The End Of Mesa Boogie? Or Do Gibson Have a Plan...

[@jnh73]

As with so many other industries, digital/software is coming to eat the world. Randy's 78 years old as of August 2024 and has been at it since 1969, and likely saw software/digital creeping in, ready to mutate his beloved tube amp designs, or even replace them with captures and profiles. He had a 55 year run - that's incredible. Godspeed my man, you changed the amp game forever.

[@kosmicwizard]

I've owned several Mesa's over the years. From a BASS 400 (non - +) running on a sextet of KT88s. To a Walkabout 300 head. To a Dual Rec multiwatt reborn. A Thiele 1x12 w/ EVM12L. Oversized 4x12 loaded w/ V30s. But I traded the 4x12 for an Orange PPC212. The Dual Rec for an Orange Rocker 30. And all I currently have by them is a V-Twin Preamp, which absolutely stomps in front of the R30 combo! I never had any troubles with my Mesa gear, but I've heard that switching relays often go out after the 10 year mark and for anyone outside of the US it costs a fortune to ship it to California and back for repairs. Cheers.

[@cliverkay]

The Lonestar was the best one they made . Then stopped making it !!

[@dustylense]

I still have my 2x12 LS MINT. MINT MINT MINT

[@mazsenior]

The Lonestar was good for sure, but I preferred the Duel Rectifier Tremoverb over my Lonestar. I gigged it for 15 years straight until I moved back to my vintage’65 Reverb.

[@donmorton7179]

I 've owned a Mesa Studio Preamp since the mid-1990's. I'm the second owner; a good friend (who is now deceased) sold it to me. I use it w/ Thiele cabs (EVM- 12L speakers). A full range of great Clean AND OD/Distortion sounds. A great product. I always hoped Mesa/Boogie would do a reissue version. Now w/ the acquisition by Gibson, I believe THAT idea is even less likely.

[@noctilux7799]

Had two MKIII, and Quad Preamp back in the days. Never had problems with them, workhorses.

[@jazzyonno]

Bought my Lonestar Special 2x12 for €1200 (2nd hand) several years ago which I still think is a fanttastic price and I really love it. I used it as my main amp for a couple of years until my Two Rock Traditional Clean 1x12 became my main. Still have the LSS as a back up. I am lucky enough to turn these amps up loud enough so they colour my pedal sounds with a bit of soul. I love their organic responisveness. The Mesa doesn't live up to the Two Rock's clean, but it is pretty admirable nonetheless, I would say 8.5/10. Both these amps are inspirational if you use the amp as a pedal platform or play without pedals most of the time. Reliability has been fine from my experience. If you run into an LSS on the secondhand market, and would dig a great pedal platform amp, I would recommend them. It's a bit like a Fender DRR with more headroom, switchable power, and switchable channels.

[@robertbossart]

Mark III SimulClass, hardwood, EQ and EV speaker - hated it for a long time, but learned to love it (if I haven't to carry it around … ;-)

[@japhygoldman8856]

The Triple Crown 50 is pretty hard to beat for a do-everything amp. Jazz, blues, metal, classic rock, funk, whatever, it seems to be able to make a very good run at it.

[@janfelixbergmann3819]

The Mesa Boogie Lonestar was the best amp I ever played. I was seventeen and had tried out the Fenders and Marshalls before, but man that thing was a beauty

[@Bret_Sanor]

Never underestimate Gibson to ruin something good. They have a track record of it. I foresee them taking production to foreign soil, possibly China. With the rise of quality digital platforms and the struggle to find good techs who are still willing and capable of properly working on Mesa's, it makes it difficult to want to purchase them especially at the high cost. It's a really a strange time to be a guitarist where amps are not welcomed on stages anymore and yet the direct in options are still a bit lacking in a live setting. I found most of the one's demanding silent stages are the one's incompetent to give proper monitoring for the musicians. Strange times...

[@10sassafras]

Randall Smith is a legend. Early on he used to check and sign every chassis they made, including my Caliber 50+. Smith changed the guitar amp world more than once but I can’t think of a single amp innovation by Gibson.

[@Tsak112]

I believe a statement came out yesterday where his contract had run up and at 78 years old he had not indented to continue once it ran out. Its very akin to Leo Fender being a consultant with Fender for 3 years after the CBS buy out...

[@josephpickard3108]

I have a Maverick 2x12 and I've never heard an amp so versatile yet so loud when needed. Mesa crushed it in the 90s. Never heard a profile sound as good as the real deal.

[@SundaySolos]

I've been playing a Mark IV for more than 20 years. Other Amps and modellers have come and gone, but I always turn to the Boogie.

[@cwyld5278]

The thing with mesa's, or at least what a lot of amptechs have told me, is they’re pretty much rock solid but when they go it's really hard to fix them. I've been giging a lonestar special for the last few years for gb, weekenders, and tours and it's never given me any issue. I snagged a fillmore 25 about a year ago to try and save my back, and a month of gigs in and the second channel was busted. The guy I took it to managed to fix it but he sent me a photo of the board and it's incredibly small and hard to work on.

[@chrisgmurray3622]

I've had a Mess Boogie Studio Tube Preamp since the early 90's. I bought it second hand, and the reverb was the only thing that didn't work. A tech-savy pal took a look inside, resoldered a loose wire on the tiny spring section and it has worked ever since. I still use it, and it just sounds brilliant , once you dial it in, and has a loop with stereo return, and every kind of switching you'd ever need.

[@donmorton7179]

Another long-time Stu Pre owner here. An iconic preamp! I always hoped Mesa would reissue these. Good to see your comment; check out my comment. Peace & ROCK ON! 🎸

[@JasonT-xp3kh]

Gibson has such a great track record of fostering their acquisitions. Get ready for cheap chinese junk in a mesa cabinet for $3000. Once they've run the brand into the ground, they'll just shelve it.

[@LukeGeis-ww4ru]

Mesa amps are rather reliable, BUTTTTTTT, and it is a big one, when they do fail, it is an absolute terror to fix them. Coupled with the fact they are generally more expensive than other common brands, makes it a hard pill to swallow that your broken, expensive amp, is also really expensive to fix due to its complicated production.

[@toloopy]

Had this experience with my 5/50 Express Plus Head. After 6 months of back and forth with repairs under warranty, they replaced the head. I’m so grateful for that. Best clean sounding amp I’ve ever heard/owned (Lonestar circuits).

[@BillAltman]

Mesa are the humbucking pickups of amps, the original high gain unit

[@Rich-NH]

End of an era

[@deddiev1718]

Had a Boogie Mark 2 B that once I had it modified was a beast. The first 30 years of my playing I always go back to Boogies. The last 12 or so I’m A Deluxe AC 15 pedal platform player. My modeling experience was from the beginning with a Johnson millennium

[@typenjw]

I think end of an era unfortunately. I have a triaxis/2:90 combo, 2x12 road king cab and a Cali tweed 4:40 combo. Never had any issue with my amps. Adore my Cali tweed

[@thebunn]

Ever since the Helix came out, I stopped caring about tube amps... I'm not saying modeling is "better" or that tube amps "suck", or anything like that.. The Helix and the Helix ecosystem just works so well, in every situation. Valve amps have become a major hassle in so many aspects.

[@garrysimmons111]

Agreed. The Helix is close enough for me. I recently added a Tonex ONE pedal to be able to access some nice captures of expensive/vintage/boutique amps.

[@MartinWaughGITA]

Totally with you, Lonestar, all day long.

[@brucesguitardemos8197]

That p 90 pick up sounds brilliant , I think Eric would be impressed with the mods ❤

[@ksharpe10]

The Creamery makes some really nice pickups but have a long Waitlist sometimes.

[@BradMiller007]

I’ve still got my Mesa Boogie Transatlantic TA30 comb and it’s my holy grail amp. So versatile and covers everything I need and pair it with my pedalboard.

[@Rockfish66]

I bought a Mk IIb new in 1983 and still own it. Love the cleans. I think the Fillmore and Cali Tweed amps are great and they were obviously a passion project for Randall to “close the circle” before he retired. I agree with others that selling to Gibson was probably part of the strategy to preserve the company. He probably had a 2 year (or whatever) contract to stick around.

[@nobodyimportant76467]

It is unrealistic to have expected Randall Smith to be around forever - I would assume that’s why he sold to Gibson in the first place. I do recall seeing a video in which the person claimed that Ryan Bruce (aka Fluff) supposedly confirmed that Randall Smith was fired but that’s not something I can confirm or even care to spend energy on. I’ve loved the Mesa amps that I’ve owned but moved on from everything but the Mark V. I’m moving more towards Soldano now for a variety of reasons with innovation being at the top of the list. Specifically, I found the Soldano Astro 20 to be the perfect amp for me - the sound and features are just too good for me to ignore. Best wishes to Randall Smith and Mesa for the future

[@CinemaKev24]

I do miss the .50 Cal I bought in 1994. But like most guitarists, my amp requirements have changed and going digital has solved so many problems.

[@jeremyversusjazz]

had a mk iv back in the 90’s awesome awesome amp msple/wicker never had an issue and three channels of just killing tone from perfect cleans to crunch to higher gain-i miss it. i now have a pre gibson cali tweed that i love. i wish randall had passed the reigns to a partner with sweat equity to continue the company but then again u cant blame a guy for anting to cash out and enjoy his golden years. thnx for changing amps and music fir the better randall! cheers.

[@Starch1b2c3d4a]

I have my Mark III and Mark III++. Very happy with both. Just need a nice Recto and Im good.

[@acousticguitars123]

The F 50 was my favorate and the most overlooked model too!

[@vaportrails7943]

I think the Road King, Roadster and Mark V were the peak of their “innovation”, although I’m not sure if that’s the right word. They added so many different small tone shaping options that they became a bit overcomplicated, and people started to complain about it. “I can’t figure this thing out”. And then there was the explosion of modeling. So I think they scaled down a bit, got back to basics, basically making a Tweed and Blackface, and the Mark VII, which is simplified from the Mark V, but also includes all of the abilities to go direct silently that people use modelers for. Since Fender makes amps, it makes sense for Gibson to want to do the same, and M/B is certainly the best way they could do it. But I think the real question here is the amp market as a whole. Will amplifiers die, and modeling will be the only thing left? That would be a massive shame, but other forms of technology have proven the pattern. Cheap and convenient beats sound quality. Streaming being the most obvious example. It’s just now getting back close to CD quality, 20 years after killing CDs. I think serious guitar players will still want a real amp for recording, when possible. But playing live, or practicing? It gets easier to see them going away completely. And then the question is, is that the death of guitar?

[@MRxr400]

I've still only one amp, and can get it to cover most tones i go for. I know it so well and get lots of compliments over the flexibility and tones to cover most styles. funk, reggae, rock and even a little jazz for a laugh. And the amp is a single rec head and v30 quad. I even play it in modern church worship bands. Very little dramas referring to reliability, from pub to all types of gigs. had two Mark IV's and they were amazing, just too tempting to make changes to stuff and never content to just leave it alone and play guitar. rec's are set and forget for me.

[@thefunkfactory]

In the past I used a Mkiii in the studio and loved it. Like many I’m a bit more modeller orientated these days for practical reasons. The Mk combos are still pretty expensive. That said I’ve been watching a Nomad on Reverb wondering if I should drop the cash on it for old times sake. BTW have you tried any Blackstar amps? I picked up a 2nd hand Studio 10 which comes in 3 different valve options (mine is the KT88) for £300 and it sounds like an amp worth way more than that.

[@Mark70609]

I repaired a 295 amp where the 400V caps blew, there should be 630V caps in there.

[@jmirand67]

So my ex wife through my calibar 50 amp head out of my car while driving on 85 north carolina. And i had to drive back around and went to the gig and it still worked. Lol spring chasy.

[@dwaynejessome1728]

First time I saw a Mesa Boogie in person was watching a local band named Palooka in my hometown playing a micro brewery pub. He was playing a Strat through a Mark II - I believe it was a Mark II. It sounded incredible. Second time I saw one, was the same band and the amp kept cutting out on him. Ruined the show. He struggled with it for a few more Thursday nights, and had to move on to a reliable amp. I never wanted an expensive question mark, and have stayed away from them.

[@rushrulz65]

Love my Mesa Fillmore 25 head! Of course, that is the Mesa amp for Mesa haters...

[@davidkeller6156]

Why? Bought a Fillmore 25 1x12 in February. My first tube amp and I love it.

[@hgoruiz]

For me, the Lonestar, Mark IV and the one that I owned, the misunderstood and underrated F-50

[@Lowtech14]

Just a noodle there.. but I demoed several of their smaller ‘entry’ combos. The F30, which I owned, was amazing, as was the Studio Caliber, which I also owned. Wish I still had them.

[@phildohogne1970]

Yes, says those things about Mesa. I have found them to be way more reliable. My Lone Star is amazing. I have a head and a cabinet. I love fenders, but if you use them to gig all the time, you have to maintain them. They are like Harley Davidson motorcycles- you have to tighten stuff down after riding- you are constantly maintaining them. If you just use you fender at home not much happens. Mesa are road worthy. Remembers that by 1966 you could see the difference in Fender guitars, and by 1969 the amps were showing and sounding different.

[@jnparesa]

I owned Mark II, purchased it in 1980.

[@mikebarnard2689]

All modern amps now that use factory robot soldered boards are just the same thing with a different badge on it…. Some makers choose quality components.. others choose components that fail just after warranty expires, this applies to reissues, hand wired etc. Very few folk will take on a Mesa repair. Sadly there are more amps out there designed to fail ( and then be a ‘ mare to fix) than most folk realise… but they sound good or even great whilst they are working.

[@mkds1109]

I’m assuming the glassy lones preset is a mesa lonestar?

[@dasczwo]

great they finally fired randall making the way clear for the product we ALL have been waiting for: the Mesa Modeller. hope they buy uafx too for the modelling tech, on the otherhand with that nice mesa badge on a mooer designed unit it will sound amazing anyway. Great times and digicrap for ytbers to hype about coming! Great to see another tech legend whose mind we have to thank for whats coming out of our speakers beeing sidelined. ii+c and a digi recto in its own digi-pedal, cant wait.

[@jjgson69]

I have mixed feelings about Boogie. My .50 cal+ has been a great amp since new in '89. My Stiletto Deuce II, which is probably my favorite boogie, is now in the shop for the 3rd time since new in '07. Bought a Mark V35, had a very loud pop when switching between channels and modes. Sent it to Boogie and it took em 3 months to repair it. They replaced the relay board. Got it back and ran it 10 minutes, power section then failed. Boogie has now had it two more months, after they told me they would expedite repair on it. I'll probably never buy another boogie....

[@rigorhead01]

Are Mesa/Boogie amps complicated and difficult to repair? Of course they are. But I'm a guitar player. I pay an amp technician to repair if something happens. Actually I've never had any of my Mesa amps in the repair shop. But I've had my Deluxe Reverb in the shop a few times over the years. I have nothing but respect for Psyonic Audio, he's here in Memphis where I live, and would be honored for him to repair an amp of mine. But I still love my Mesa/Boogies

[@64cousins]

Had a mesa, that broke down. And a blackstar, Hughes and kettner, Dr z.. Orange is the only amp I've owned that hasn't shat it'sself

[@alexmbrenner]

I played a Lonestar and liked it. The whole Mesa thing in the 90’s with all the triple rectifier Creed/Limp Bizkit was a big turn off for me.

[@tymanngruter1808]

Its more like the end off Gibson, what about Mesa! 🤤

[@steveliberty]

Some Mesa amps use special relay type switching (Vactrols I think they are called) and they are sometimes stacked on top of each other in the amp, making maintenance a nightmare (and these Vactrols do fail). Too much tech???

[@jmirand67]

Hello friends. Mesa boogie very nice company. When ever I needed one repaired they would send me a Loner till mind was fixed they always where very helpful. I recorded guitars on a summer hit called Falsetto artist The Dream. I recorded that song and solo with a Road king. Check it out.

[@jmirand67]

I have my first mesa boogie amp when I was 20 ish caliber 50 and I have Dual recto. And Triple crown. All the cabs fun stuff. None of these amps droke on me. The one that did brake down on me was the rack mount one. One strip with alot of tone.

[@peterschut63]

To me, when de mk V came out it ticked all the boxes where the previous mk’s had limitations with respect to channel interaction due to combined controls. It took me 10 years to afford one but I don’t think I sell it ever even though my Helix is the main (home playing) amp. You might be right that it is a downward spiral from now on. Gibson might ruin the brand as I think the love of the original owner kept them faithful to the original story .

[@vpovince1001]

I was always a Marshall guy and found Marshalls to be far more reliable based on a couple friends always having issues with their mesa combos my buddy had somehow had an issue with his simul class 290 power amp which never left his house.

[@189pinto]

I dunno, I see parallels between this and the SWR/Fender model.

[@LandanChurchill]

I sold my lonestar head to get my cali tweed 4:40. I love my cali tweed but im a fucking idiot for selling my lonestar 🤣🤣🤣

[@eadsinstrumentsllc]

Word on the streets is Randall was fighting hard on a liquorice addiction. 🤣🤣🤣🤣. Only true JC fans will understand this comment.

[@Stereostupid]

I agree with another KZbinr who said Gibson are just interested in rehashing old ideas and Randall is always pushing the envelope forward with innovative ideas so Gibson will probably just do Murphy lab versions of mk1 and mk2 and rectifier and Randall said nah we're not going to keep re-releasing my most popular designs...I guarantee

[@Drtydeeds]

Would be great if new beginning

[@samizdat113]

They better have a damn good plan.

[@greenwave792]

I’ve never owned either, to expensive

[@EddyLeger-r1j]

Mesa amps are very hard to work on, the new Gibson Amps are built like a 300 dollar amp, not 1200 +.

[@kosmicwizard]

In my mind Vox or Orange have more of a claim to being in the big 3 than Mesa does. And I'm not hating on Mesa at all when I say that.

[@ae3898]

Gibson buying Mesa/Boogie : Disney buying Lucasfilm? “Nothing to worry about…we will remain faithful to the vision and brand history as we immediately dismantle it and build something entirely different and call it by the same name and scold you when you complain.”

[@nickh1933]

Pretty much the end. Gibson will cheapen the brand and increase prices. Who will be designing them now that Randall is gone? The real issue is now pre-gibson boogies will go up in price.

[@BOSSenjoyer]

Tremoverb

[@UseTheSupeRsonic]

I say new era, but Gibson is treading thin ice with this decision, if they don’t make good on it, Boogie is as good as dead, like other brands they acquire. There better be some SERIOUS R&D going in an creating some magic, they’ve got a lot to lose

[@shane011471]

Is he not something like 80 years old now? The man should enjoy the time that he has left with family and friends. As far as the brand Mesa goes, Gibson did purchase them which does not go very well with the future of any company.

[@Archtop78]

Nickel Back!! 😂😂

[@rinkydinky-ob9pe]

Theymade it impossible to buy one in Europe for about four to five years , then upped the price by neary 1k on the California tweed, no thanks, if i want to spend big ill get a two rock

[@charlesrocks]

It’s over boogie bros

[@burningguitarsoul]

could it be that Mesa might have been constantly canibalising itself in terms of their line up. they just can't stop discontinuing their amps. i think their golden age was when the lonestar was out and their main line up was the recto, lone star and stiletto. the latter 2 are now discontinued and i think they are way better amps than the new fillmore and cali tweed whatever.. it feels like over the years Mesa is losing its identity in the market and someone has to take the blame for it.

[@vaportrails7943]

I think the amp market is shrinking, and with Smith aging out, they’re doing what they can to keep the company going.

[@scozz6139]

Lyle from Psonic Audio, (a well respected amp technician), has a dim view of the quality in the manufacturing of Mesa Boogie amps. All one has to do is watch one of his Mesa repair videos, he is NOT a fan. Most of his Mesa repair videos are pre-Gibson ownership.

[@jroobz]

hope it's a new beginning. if mesa disappeared it would be huge loss

[@Drtydeeds]

It’s already bad enough Gibson owns the brand.

[@clemdog76]

Gibson fired Randall. Who can say what will be.

[@mike_aiton]

Oh god. Mesa go “authentic”. Having Gibson own you is like being owned by the social media equivalent of Bubonic Plague

[@stratjed]

Mesa Boogie is and always will be the first "boutique "amplifier of any note. There was Vox, Marshall, Fender and all the big rock stars bought Boogies when they hit in the 1970s Jerry Garcia. Pete Townsend, Carlos Santana, Keith Richards all playing Boogies to stadiums full of people. Years before anything else including Rivera and Dumble. Everything ends. The mark 4 was the first beginning of the end for us early Boogie fanatics and then Boogie was the pre and power amp to have in the Rack dominated 1980s. Then the entire rectifier thing was the end for us again along with the music that was using the things in the 90s! But the Lonestar was a comeback that lasted with some great models all the way to Randalls retirement.

[@Rael0505]

I agree with Mesa taking a hit from the modeling world. I’ve seen people get better lead tones out of their dual rectifier modelers than I could get out of the REAL dual rectifier I had 😂 I was like “I wish my actual dual rectifier sounded like this”

[@themarotinator]

John, sounds like you’re not hip to Lyle from Psionic Audio’s take on Mesa Boogie from a reliability standpoint, which is odd given your mutual friend in Keith from 5 Watt World. Anyway, he knows amps as well as anyone and says they’re all ticking time bombs. Here’s just his latest vid on the subject: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j3rQm4uYhphggqMsi=_3l346MaSdReflfN

[@ZachariahConnor]

I hope that Randall has a good retirement, however I hope that the designs become more easy to repair and stop relying on legacy components that cause issues

[@SteveWilliamsworld]

Ive played them all and owned several. Stupid controls. Totally dumb EQ curves. Idiot volume curves. Most are the worst sounding amps on the planet. Badlander. Subway Rocket. Lonestar. Refused to make the RECTO controls visible onstage. Ridiculous weight issues. Asinine prices. He wanted 4k for a mono head with no speakers. Oh ok. This is guy has been living in a 1972 fantasy land for decades. Um, roadies can carry your oversized cabs I guess. Time to go. He has been on a total disconnect from reality for decades.

[@mattc1176]

Personally I think Mesa Boogies suck. I had to hire one on tour once and HATED it. Have played around with more in studios and never found them inspiring. They are (fairly objectively) poorly designed and made. Part of that is being hard and expensive to fix. On Fenders being less reliable... There are some obvious ones like the Hotrod Deluxe that are super unreliable, but their classic circuits executed properly are way more reliable than any Mesa design.

[@wurm90125]

I've had 5 of them over the last 25 years and have never had a problem with them. I will agree that they're a pain in the ass to dial in. Marshall, on the other hand, I've never had good luck with them.

[@Drtydeeds]

I don’t know what you’re on about, but my experience is fairly limited only having owned/currently owning a Mark IV, Mark IIC+, and Mark IIB. Zero problems over multiple decades.

[@mattc1176]

I know others too who say that they've had good ownership experiences and don't discount that. The parts of Mesa design I dislike most are around ease of repair - components on all these amps fail or need work at some point. Mesas are uneccesarily complex and expensive to work on. The other point is that in my experience they are biased very cold, which is partly what makes them hard to dial in (and may also explain why people report good reliability).

[@rigorhead01]

I think Mesa/Boogie has been preparing for this day for the last few years. Randal Smith can't work forever, and should enjoy a few years of retirement. It's just the way it is for those of us with finite life spans. I'm curious to check out the next Mesa/Boogie model to be released without Smith at the helm. I sure hope it maintains the magic that so many Mesa models have. 🪄