The End of MIP Displays? Garmin Forerunner 165 and New Cycling Power Meters

[@sethdbrown30]

I'm a MIP guy. I had a Samsung Galaxy watch 4 with OLED screen, it was pretty but it's very annoying to look down and not see the time, then having to flip my wrist. There are many times where I just want to look at the watch and see the time. That is the literal point of a watch, to see the time. A MIP display is all you need on a watch

[@lowzyyy]

Yeah brother, oled is for hobby joggers. Mip ftw

[@Trailcat2024]

It should pop up when you look at the watch if it’s not garbage. My Garmin does

[@Fozzee.1970]

With always on display you can see the screen 90 per cent of the time without even needing the screen to brighten. Ots only when outside in bright light you can't with using the raise to walke function or tap to wake if use that instead.

[@tonybowen455]

Amoled is a must have for me, but turning to wake is so annoying. It's not as good as apple watch, and even with AW it was annoying. I often times tap my 965 to wake to ensure it turns on.

[@Trailcat2024]

@@tonybowen455 how the hell are you seeing the watch without turning it anyways? Do you wear it sideways on your wrist?

[@Maxwell_Edison_MiM]

MIPS is the best display there is. It's unfortunate that watch influencers are mostly focused on watches most of us cannot afford nor would ever buy even if we could. MIPS truly adds something to watches. It has as fantastic combination of visibility, utility and battery drain. And it looks genuinely good from an aesthetic point of view and can be incorporated in design watches in a way that LCD cannot. Watches have a lot of different use cases. One important one is to quickly tell the time and be as simple and low maintenance/carefree as possible. I would love a thin round(ed) mips watch, with solar power, and atomic timekeeping, 5 atm water resistance, with a nice large display like the screen on the GBD-200. If something like that is made and given enough promotion I believe it would be a success. You have all the advantages of a LCD with none of the disadvantages. Extremely easy way to tell the time, no need to ever worry about battery or clock drift. I know this may be the wrong channel to post this, and I can appreciate the utility of watches with powerful features. But MIPS really needs to be utilized in more mainstream every day watches.

[@caliserion]

I hope MIP displays will be around for a long time to come. I currently have a MIP display and hopefully if I ever buy another Garmin I will have a MIP display again.

[@listrahtes]

sadly it doesnt look like that. Polar have completely switched to AMOLED in their top models, Suunto did the same and now Garmin we will soon se with the Fenix 8 but it doesnt look good at all.

[@33scottyp]

I really like the MIP display much better than the AMOLEDs. I’ve own the Fenix 6, Instinct 2 and the Epix 2 Pro and found I’d rather the MIP. The AMOLED looks amazing but the bright light (even on the lowest setting) was annoying and had too much like a smartphone feeling to it. The MIP feels more natural, it’s passive and feels more like a watch. Plus the battery is better. If Garmin ever completely get rid of the MIP for the Fenix and Instinct series I would be disappointed.

[@nickfletton3976]

Yeah, me too

[@AdamTrackIT]

"Feels more like a watch" I think that sum it all, for us MIP fans. I just want a sport watch I can look at from any angle at any time without a gesture and read the time just like an analog watch. Simple as that! The facts that AMOLED isn't as efficient is minor for me. I wouldn't mind charging my watch every weeks instead of every two weeks...and that is with a lot of Multi band usage hiking and running. Also I'm looking at multiple LED/amoled screens all day long, I don't need to wear one more bright screen.

[@Flobert16]

Ok boomer.

[@33scottyp]

@@Flobert16 Except I’m not a boomer, so nice try.

[@Flobert16]

@@33scottyp ok boomer 😂

[@josephgonzalez_]

I have a 955 and I’m very happy with the MIP display and the very much longer battery life.

[@luisrazormax2861]

955 can store music on the watch and play through earbuds?

[@josephgonzalez_]

@@luisrazormax2861 absolutely. The 955 is the same as the 965 in almost every way except for the display.

[@Homesweethome-n9n]

Yes it has music functionality ​@@luisrazormax2861

[@mnyheim11]

@@luisrazormax2861yes

[@nathaniel6286]

It's like each Garmin Watch has a team that is isolated from one another and has no idea what the rest of the lineup looks like. I've had several apple watches, turns out I like MIP much more and enjoy my instinct 2 solar far more than any of the 'phone-on-wrist' devices.

[@smitm108]

Exactly …

[@33scottyp]

Same. I had an Instinct 2 Solar, then bought the Epix Pro when it came out but returned it and went back to my Instinct 2. I’d much rather the MIP display despite not looking as pretty.

[@shimona500]

Yeah their leadership is kinda weird as well to allow this. Should start merging teams.

[@YouTubedarek]

👏 not 👏everyone 👏wants 👏 AMOLED I have so many bright screens in my life. I love that my Fenix is MIP. I don’t want an Epix and it’s one of the reasons I got rid of my Apple Watch.

[@Fozzee.1970]

​@@KZbindarekbut lots clearly do as their sales demonstrate.

[@darkvvorth]

There are still 6-8 years old watches in use with MIP displays with great battery life and always on display. I can't imagine AMOLED watches that old with no burn-in and always on for years with similar battery life.

[@Fedelia86]

There are two main reasons for me for MIPS: - battery life! I habe a small wrist and use a Fenix 7S. The small case comes with a small battery and it just doesnt cut it with AMOLED. - always on. I want to be able to glance at my warch without moving my arm or tapping it - eg in Meetings. If those things are fixed with AMOLED, I'm happy to switch (10+ days of battery life in a small case with true always on display)

[@marvin7533]

I ordered the 165 yesterday. I'm looking forward to putting it to use!

[@hornsteinhof7592]

Had the FR 165 on my wrist but ultimately went with an Instinct 2s. The batter life of MIP watches is superior (for now). I love the look of OLED, but battery life and the durability of an instinct matter more to me.

[@jonathonpaul5937]

Looking forward to hearing back on security/feature updates, as Garmin has been incredibly unclear on this for a long time. As an example, Garmin is still selling the epix (Gen 2) Standard Edition for $800 (as of Feb 29 2024) - however they don't promise security updates after 2023-11-19. So they're still selling a watch that they have no obligation to support. The tactix 7 Pro Ballistics is somewhat similar - they expect people to pay $1600 (I think this is their most expensive watch?) and they're promising security updates for less than 30 days. Just the idea of ending support before reaching end-of-sale is insane. At a past tech company we had a reasonable policy of +1 year of additional features and +5 years of bug fixes/security updates/support after end-of-sale. Something like that would be a significant improvement compared to the existing policy.

[@everything-has-a-handle-now]

MIP just feels more like an actual watch. Which is something I appreciate as I like to wear it 24/7. If one day the vívomove gets on the level of a forerunner 45 it would be the biggest no-brainer ever for me

[@polarisb518]

Amazed at how well the combination of you two managed to hit the mark on topics that are the most interesting without anyone addressing them as precisely as you do…like the conclusion with the new Faveros vs Garmin or the Garmin Ginormous overlapping models and so on). So much appreciated for the discussion if not for answers (which are bot available sometimes).

[@MattSwain1]

I have a Fenix 6S (S for small) - I highlight what the S means because it’s important to me. The other thing I value is battery life. Batteries are only good for so many cycles. If you have to charge every day (like with an Apple Watch) you get through those cycles fast and after a couple of years (approx) your battery that started out as barely adequate will be trash. My Fenix 6S is over 4 years old and still holds charge for a week (ok a bit less if I use GPS a lot). If I’m going to spend nearly $1000 on my next watch, it’s no good if I have to replace it in 2 years because the battery is ruined and I also don’t want a watch the size of dinner plate on my wrist to compensate for an inefficient display. So I’d like an AMOLED display but not at the expense of the battery or the size of the watch. Thankfully it does sound from what you both say that maybe by the next Fenix lands I’ll be able to have the nice display in a small watch with reasonable battery life

[@highseastrader4190]

The Epix 42mm is quite close to the 7S battery-wise. Don't put the Epix (even the small-sized one) and in the same bag than the Apple Watchs (even the Ultra), it's definitely NOT the same battery life.

[@KeithRobertson57]

Interesting you want to replace the whole watch rather than just replace the tired battery?

[@highseastrader4190]

@@KeithRobertson57 and how do you replace the battery of a Garmin watch? 🤔

[@listrahtes]

@@highseastrader4190 this is simply a lie. If you use the Epix like a normal watch with AoD it doesnt even have half the battery life of a Fenix 7s

[@highseastrader4190]

@@listrahtes why use AOD? It's not a lie, on gesture mode the autonomy is in the same ballpark. I have a MIP watch (955) and don't want an AMOLED but I would simply not use AOD if I had one. I just don't use any smartwatch feature so maybe it's because of that?

[@WayeOfLife]

Des.. you nailed it.. some people are intimidated by the 'forerunner' name and some are attracted to it

[@Klauspeterpuls]

I love my Instinct as it doesn’t always attract looks towards my wrist in dim light rooms when i myself just checking the time by glimpsing down.

[@Jarek.]

I hate to admit but after a tons of scepticism regarding AMOLED in Garmin watches I'm loving my FR 965... I wish I migrated from Vivoactive 4 earlier.... Thanks for the video 👍

[@oggeman00]

I'm the same. Had my Vivoactive 4 and tested Venu 2, Fenix 5 and 6 but never settled. When I finally bought the Epix gen 2 I feel at ease as a relevant upgrade. The key is the great 16d battery life on AMOLED, with turn-to-wake aselected. Forerunner don't work for me since it lacks golf features.

[@robhunt8378]

@@oggeman00 Of course, if the display is off then there's no reason why you shouldn't get great battery life with Amoled 🙂 We Garmin users used to make fun of Apple users and their switched off watches though. How have times changed.

[@oggeman00]

I've tested most Apple watches up to version 8, but returned them all due to battery. Garmin finally made it work. I've no trouble switching from MIP always-on to switch-to-wake during the day, and always on during activity.

[@vpnconsult]

​​@@robhunt8378here the FR965 still rocks for 11/12 days per charge with the screen always on. The battery time of the Apple Watch is still counted in hours, not days.

[@georgevadnais3516]

I love the amoled display of my venu 3 😎

[@johanrg70]

I've got a 955 with MIP display. Amoled is nice, but that's all it is for me, nice. I've got zero reasons to change since I never have any problems to see the display and I just don't need it and prefer the longer battery life that comes with the MIP. Hopefully they will leave at least one watch using MIP going forward, that isn't as heavy as a Fenix for pure sports where battery is the priority.

[@RichardChambers]

MIPS screen is much better for me in a watch. Always on, always perfectly visible no matter the light level, and great battery life. It’s a watch, I don’t need Retina display and perfect colours for pictures and video! OLED looks better in the shop so sells better. I wish they made a phone with a MIPS display.

[@steevkeyes]

I have Garmin Fenix 3, Fenix 6X, Fenix 7X, and recently Epix pro 2 42mm. I now use the Epix on a regular basis, and reserve the Fenix 7X for multi-day expeditions. The Epix is so NICE to look at, where as the Fenix screen is DULL. As we know, the Fenix has MASSIVE battery life. But I am comfortable charging the Epix every four days, after daily running for 1 or 2 hours.

[@enonek2960]

Hearing you guys talking about new Garmin "Entry level" Forerunner 165 features and the product overlaps is amazing to me, but I still get by with my Forerunner 25.

[@_Rafiki.]

Treat yourself at Christmas

[@Mauricemeijer81]

MIPS is still the best option for a watch! AMOLED is not suited for always on! It’s a watch not a smartphone!

[@clarkematt]

In answer the question of why there is a Vivoactive 5 and a Forerunner 165. My wife has tried ALL of the Garmin running watches on her small wrist, and besides the Forerunner 55s, NONE are designed for truly small diameter wrists. She opted for the Vivoactive 5 just before the 165 was released, but feels good about her decision because the 165 is still thicker, heavier, and has a larger diameter. These are important considerations. Garmin is taking a risk by continually failing to make enough good options for smaller-wristed people.

[@wildprodigy]

If she enjoys a vivoactive 5 the venu 3s would be a nice upgrade for her. I have a small wrist for a man and the 39-42mm size watches are perfect

[@sskoutofdoors9503]

MiP all the way. I do not want another iphone/phone screen... that was the main reason why I bought my FR245 over the Apple Watch. I wanted a sports watch and not a phone with phone screen on my wrist 24/7. Let me just glance down to see the time... simple and effective with the MiP.

[@sskoutofdoors9503]

Also... the AMOLED looks good... i won't deny that... but they put pictures of real runners and such on the watch now... i don't want a picture book in my watch. Just another frustrating thing IMO.

[@robhunt8378]

Exactly. It's a technology that's very suited to a watch, unlike Amoled. I would love to know the technical reasons why MIP displays can't simply move forward another step in terms of pixel density and more colours. They would not need to reach Amoled levels in those two departments.

[@dadandvideogames]

Dang. Y'all asking the hard questions. I hope MIP doesn't go anywhere until some kind of singularity-like tech magic makes OLED screens as energy efficient.

[@robhunt8378]

You would still have the burn-in problem and therefore the dimming, the wrist gestures, and all the stupid nonsense that comes with Amoled. On paper the magic tech that solves it all is microLED but it's always two years away.

[@elephant_888]

MicroLED. Sharp is showing off prototypes at CES.

[@fixgear1960]

Your comments on the model confusion is well taken. I am worried about investing $800+ in a MIP watch (which I preferred) and I just gave up and purchased the cheapest Apple watch SE (40mm) for $199. If you look at the features.. it is an amazing bargain and will sit out where Garmin is going with Fenix till it shakes out. I want a Fenix 7s Pro but will not invest that amount of $$$ till things shake out.

[@wheelsupbardown]

It's not like the functionality of the Fenix 7 just stops because they stop making MIP displays.

[@jeremyleh28]

I returned the FR165 as it was trash. Loved the old Mip displays. Did not want to buy the older 255 so switched to a galaxy watch 6. If Garmin is going Amoled then i might aswell go apple or samsung as they will only get better and have better intergration with phone. Plus the swimming accuracy is way better on the gw6 for some weird reason. If Garmin goes all amoled people will just jump as MIP displays were amazing

[@DerekHardwick]

I think two of the issues in this video are related: 1) Garmin has way too many watches under different names / brands and 2) seemingly random updates for security and new features for older watches. If there are so many watches with so many different feature sets, as a software development / quality team it's going to be difficult to maintain code bases and fixes for all these different watches. I know Garmin has "GarminOS", but unlike apple's watchOS, it's pretty clear that Garmin treats the 'releases' for the different watches as totally different updates (latest software version for a Fenix 5 is 25.00, and for a Fenix 6 is 20.50, and Fenix 7 is 14.36). It would make more sense to have a GarminOS that supports the whole line of watches and enables/disables features based on the watch, and support that for as long as you can on the past watches. But this is a big mindset change for Garmin to go the apple route, as right now they clearly are incredibly focused on market segmentation (too many watches and names and numbers, probably different hardware and software), and don't want to give someone who bought a watch two years ago a software upgrade that adds features comparable to a watch released last month, lest they choose to wait for an upgrade.

[@kaynehr]

Concerning the security updates I changed my Forerunner 35 two weeks ago for an instinct 2s. And that old FR 35 got updates until last year. So I think it's not as bad as its stated by the dates on the tech cheat.

[@fixgear1960]

Great video guys! You did not even mention the “pro” fenix also… crazy… like you said … the market has spoken on the oled vs mip screens. I am still in mip camp especially with solar. My hopes is they continue to develop further this tech for improvements. My concern is it will go away or just regulated to low end of market. Even Amzfit low end like the BIP has abandoned it. Do you agree?

[@BJKeane-mc6bm]

The garmin watch lineup is OVERWHELMING. I just went through this my head was spinning.

[@DamonGaskin]

Lol, I had you guys video on, while reading Reddit. What caught my attention was your mention of "why" people may not buy Garmin. I started seriously considering Garmin when, I started buying "multiple" phones, and trying to figure out, how to take my health data between devices.. Well the proprietary brand devices, of course, won't work.. So Garmin came to mind.. Abd yes, the numbers are staggering! With the overlapping costs, features, and even moreso, availability.. This kind of turned me off, and for now, I said that I would just stick with my 5 to 6 watches I switch between. But great vid!

[@ArmandoAraujoFilho]

“If Garmin simplified it, it would be better.” Perfect!!! In fact, Garmin is confusing its customers.

[@tcr-watcher3501]

apart from a feature perspective, I think it is important keeping the value per price in consideration. I bought the 255s music while the 265s was already on the market. Reasons were tad smaller, MIP display for better battery life, no touch screen because back then I did not know you could turn touch unit completey off and the most important reason, as much as I would like having training readiness, the price increase is absolutely not worth it. Even if all other arguments are neglecetible, I paid about little under 300 EUR instead of 450 with no price adjustment since a year. So I pay 150 EUR or plus 50 percent for training readiness and this is still the case today. For me, that is a joke. I might upgrade with a watch of similar weight, size and battery life that includes climbing, bouldering, training readiness and solar funcionality. Yes, the Fenix 7s solar has this except the weight, but then again, the price increase does not justify those features. I think they should add a simpler boulder session, because as it is now, I doubt I would even enjoy tracking the climbing stuff accordingly, because I would not want to tap on my tracker for every boulder route I am trying. I might just end up tracking it as cardio instead of bouldering while renaming it in the app, how I do it now as well. So before upgrading the tracker, which I might have because my partner just needs one and likes getting my stuff for me to upgrade to something else, which is why I came to this video, while after a week of researching and finding out, I would still buy the same tracker today, my next thing is power meters for the bike. Since I really liked the video, I will look what I can find to that in your channel.

[@mariopejovic]

I wonder what's that watch on Ray's wrist 😁 waiting for news on Fenix 8. Great podcast as usual guys

[@Dnserror88]

Judging by the bezel, looks like a Tactix 7 Amoled.

[@maranr]

I bought a Fenix 7s Sapphire Solar when it came out which I do still love. Then they come out with a Pro version pretty soon after with the flash light on the smaller versions which really miffed me. Now I am getting Amoled FOMO and would also like a lighter watch that does not drive me crazy when I sleep with it. Contemplating just selling it soon and waiting to what shakes out with the next gen watches but can't be sure they will come out with a Fenix 8 this year. Ugh. It took me ages to decide on this one but you both benefitted from my frequent viewings.

[@Fernweh_8]

I bought a 165 and setup the watch face, which included an elevation data field so you could access that information as needed. After the first update, that feature was removed and you can no longer access the elevation data outside of an activity. After reaching out to Garmin, they told me they removed the feature to "differentiate" the lower end device as such. To remove a feature that was previously there as soon as you release the product, which contains the hardware for the feature is a really bad look. I opened up a case with Garmin and they verified the presence before, the the lack of the feature after the update and told me they would reach out via email to update me on whether this will be aded back. So far, I've not heard back form them ...sad.

[@ariii39]

thnks for the podcast guys!

[@Jb305903]

Great podcast as always guys. Yes Garmin has way too many models and should work on battery/solar and the refresh on the mapping page

[@abegoldberg4030]

Great stuff!! Great to see you two collaborating! Do you expect Favero to introduce Road dual power pedals without "pod"

[@Anuj_Tomar]

Amzfit had somewhat similar display tech, always on efficient displays .. sadly they also shut it down, I wish garmin keeps at least few models on MIP, My FR255 is quite good, coming from AMOLED watches, i don't miss them even a bit, the better battery life compensates for prettiness.

[@gourean]

Amazfit Bip OG has 60 days of battery life with MIP!

[@MateHegyhati]

Thank you guys again. A question: Garmin had a few features, that they introduced on or rather tested the waters with non-flagship devices. That is probably a good strategy to have data, and introduce it to the Fenix/FR lineup, when it is well baked. Things that come to mind are the LTE in 945 and the kids watch, wireless charging in the Vivomove, ECG, and maybe I missed something. So the question: did I miss something? And what do you see appearing and where? Another: mapping. here Garmin is consistent with 3 categories: 0 - no map, 1 - breadcrumb, 2 - full on topo. Coros did a 1.5 with showing (if I understand correctly) a picture under the breadcrumb trail. I feel that Garmin is in a bit of a dilemma with the 265 for example. If they leave it as 1, Coros can brag about having better mapping at the same pricepoint. If they raise it to 1.5 (assuming the hw allows it) then the bestbuy employee will have an even more difficult time explaining the difference to the 965. Do you think Garmin would do this step in the 275 or maybe in a software update? (latter would be surprising and huge).

[@astasuleo]

If the eliminate the MPI Display they will loose a lot of customers. We all use MPI for so many years there is a reason on that. Is not only the battery itself but the way of MIP looks like. If i want an amoled i have my phone or i can get a cheap smart watch and use that instead.

[@Fozzee.1970]

That's a sweeping statement . Do you have any stats to support it?

[@astasuleo]

@@Fozzee.1970 no stats, it is a common statement. MIP is a not funcy display but it surves what it suppose to. I love Amoled but not for my watch training.

[@robhunt8378]

They're counting on the fact that there will be nowhere to go. There's Coros for now but ...

[@_Digitalnative]

Garmin CAN create simple lines within a category if they choose to do so. When I look at their cycling lineup they have the 1xx, the 5xx, the 8xx and the 10xx series. Sure there’s some overlap but it’s way easier to navigate than the fēnix® and epix™ lines.

[@roleypup]

MIP's reduced battery draw was discussed, but another advantage to it that I haven't heard discussed is the ability to have similar battery life in a smaller form factor. I bought a Vívoactive 4s because I didn't want a massive great big watch on my wrist. It's there for more than convenience; I use it for running & cycling, about 10-15 hours a week.

[@joyaclub]

Yep, BestBuy Canada incorrectly lists the Forerunner 165 as 45mm (it's 43mm). I mean maybe some employee confused it with the 265. Then again, how difficult is it to type in the correct specs? By the way, love the camaraderie.

[@VernL4]

I kind of understand the thing about Apple only having three models available. Some people don't like to make decisions and are OK with letting others decide for them. Here's my feeling, though. We are all different. Each and every one of us. The wide variety of models is one of the things that draws me to Garmin. Some people run. Some people bike. Others play golf. Others hike. Having devices that are focused on different groups and/or activities (hopefully) leads to a better product with targeted features. I do agree that they have many different models. I don't understand them all. That's Garmin's decision. I'm happy with my Fenix 7 Solar, and for right now, that's what I need.

[@Horstelin]

I think it's a big oversight of Garmin to have so many different software features. I bought a venu 3s because I did not like the look of the f265s for an all day watch. That said, feature wise I would have gotten the 265s.

[@JanaV-x9x]

Hi guys, great video, thank you! Speaking of crazy differences between Fenix or Epix and Forerunner. I went from Fenix to Forerunner 265 and I would be very happy with it, but the way how the timer works is driving me crazy😂 It's not showing the time when it expires, while the Fenix does. It's so inconvenient if you have multiple timers on at the same time. Would you believe that I am now waiting for the new Epix to have normal timer again? 😅

[@oggeman00]

Great podvideo guys, best so far! The main difference between Vivoactive 4/5 and Forerunner is... golf activity is only available on Vivoactive. Forerunner has always excluded golf. That feature is part of my requirement list for a sports watch, hence I've noticed this. There may be other features that differ but that's what I've noticed.

[@highseastrader4190]

My 955 has the golf activity profile 😉

[@oggeman00]

@@highseastrader4190 good point. But I think 955/965 is mainly positioned as a lighter version of Epix (Fenix). Forerunner 165 or 265 seem to be dedicated for run/swim/bike, compared to Vivoactive and Venu. But it's a bit of a mess for Garmin to solve moving forward, if they want to.

[@tasos.k]

would you buy a fenix 7 pro or wait for the 8?

[@sector96]

here is an idea for a future project: you only review the watch just before it is released. I am curious about when and how all these watches start to malfunction. Could it be that a Fenix can live for 3-4 years while the Epix dies after 2? I am pretty sure Garmin will not release this information, so maybe you can rely on the community that is more likely to cooperate. In any case, this could be very relevant before buying a certain watch.

[@PhonicWheel51]

I was devastated to see the active line go amoled, but i was open to trying and got the venu 2. So far i find it annoying; AOD still kills the battery faster than i would like, and here in the sunshine state the visibility is soso if im actively looking at it, but if i try to glimps at it its adaptive lighting makes it near impossible to read.

[@davegoslingphoto]

I have the Venu2 and yes you can't really use the AOD ... Really bad battery.. Now have the Epix gen 2. Love it... Battery life is 6 days with AOD and have no trouble reading the screen.. Great upgrade,.

[@dmitrynikolaev355]

If Garmin will stop MIP, then will buy Instinct. If instinct 3(or 4) will also be oled- then coros. Or G shock… But now fr955. Till the battery die.)

[@johanrg70]

Same here, 955 til it breaks.

[@highseastrader4190]

Another 955 (happy) user here 🫶🏻

[@lefterismic3978]

Yeah MIP for the win!

[@truesf345]

Would definitely buy an instinct 2x with amoled display

[@pcraenme]

I agree.. Fenix is a strong brand… that’s why I think the Fenix will remain and will be the top MIP watch for Garmin and the Enduro will not get any new versions. And Epix (Gen2) will stay a Fenix with amoled.

[@RunRideHikeThrive]

Yup, I'm one of them.. Got my Fenix 7 last year when on sale 👍 33:24

[@Dnserror88]

Many rumors online regarding a Instinct 3 coming next month

[@33scottyp]

Really!! I hope so, I can’t wait to see what that will come out with.

[@bufferino7880]

I wanted to get the Instinct 2 Tactical but I hate that it didn’t have the flashlight on the 45mm model. Please tell me Instinct 3 medium size will have flashlight.

[@sandorbence2067]

As for Garmin having too many options, absolutely. Overwhelming hard to see through, easy to miss new options. Like the Instinct 2x is made for me, and I could recommend to a lot of people, but until yesterday I didn't know it existed. And since Garmind doesn't really have a clear release cycle and throws out new models randolmly, even if I do my research I don't know what to expect. Like when will the Fenix 8 series come out? Or the Enduro 3? For Samsung, Apple, Huawei, and most mainstream brands I can tell when the next series comes, maybe even the new features or main functions. For Garmin, it's a huge mystery. Same with pricing.

[@sandorbence2067]

OLEDs are gettimg better, but always on still depletes the battery a lot (and for certain use cases flicking your wrist is not an option), max brightess is still not there (but improving) and auto brightness control is still not perfect. If you use your watxh outside in sunny periods but also for sleep tracking, there's nothing worse than waking up at night, looking at the watch and it burning out your eyes. Also OLED vibrates a lot on low brightness which is just as bad at night. They could use higher PWM or just a non PWM based refresh, but these innovations come slower to watches. If MIP displays were a bit higher res (OLED options kinda maxed out, reached a ppi where it's no point going higher) and had a bit a better colors, it would be enough for most people. On the other hand, OLED has its benefits and makes the interface looks much prettier and more responsive. I'm a big OLED fan in all displays, just not in watches. There I prefer something more functional.

[@HannesSchmiderer]

I use crank based power meters because there are no crank brothers power meter pedals. I come from downhill and enduro mountain biking. I switched to crank brothers pedals about 15 years ago because I preferred them over Shimano for this kind of mountain biking. I had a Stages power meter previously (left only). But after issues with my left knee I really would have liked power meter pedals for all the data. But I did not want another pedal system on my gravel bike so I chose the SRAM Quarq power meter spider. I assume the market is just too small as enduro and downhill riders who often prefer crank brothers over SPD are not that much into power data. (And most ride flat pedals anyway.)

[@mrbjorndekker]

Thanks for the podcast guys. Nice to listen to while running, the sole reason for spotify offline on the watch ;-) Just a question, what are your thoughts on a Garmin Whoop band compettitor? Like a forerunner band or something? So all the sensors just not the screen? I would be in to that and start wearing a normal analog watch again with the band strapped on my upper arm.

[@cravenlscharles]

If you are short sighted , is an a amoled screen easier to read on the run ?

[@coscottn]

Are there any concerns over burn in on the Garmin amoled displays

[@robhunt8378]

That's the elephant in the room that is rarely addressed with Amoled. "Oh, visibility is great in all conditions". Sure. At full brightness, which can't be sustained for too long because of the organic materials, hence the auto-dimming and the funny wrist flicks.

[@jeromeblouin]

Question about automatic satellite mode: is there a difference between using the auto mode vs the GPS one if your environment doesn't have buildings around nor lots of trees? Is there a chance that the auto mode would try to switch to another mode during running so that it could affect the results negatively? Talking about the FR 265. Thank you

[@MrAlekseizaitsev]

After many years 165 is first real alternative to Polar M400, tons of bugs still, some not fixed for 8+ years, but that's a good direction at least finally, physical buttons, OLED screen, low cost, 2 weeks battery

[@deansawich6250]

I was an early Polar fan my first served me extremely well so I bought the M400 when my first Polar finally bit the dust. It was useless, in the end I threw it in the trash, something I never do.

[@michaellanger5671]

Great podcast! Garmin just announced the Index BPM for Europe! Are you guys doing a review?

[@igori3532]

I'm not willing to sacrifice battery life ... And for what? Shiny colorful display does not offer anything in terms of usability MIP can. My wife has vivoactive 4s. There is no viable replacement which would be as light, have same (or greater) battery life and more advanced HR sensor with more features. The only visible option would be Fenix 7pro. But it's a bit too heavy.

[@MrSjeupie]

I'm one of the people that is just overwhelmed by the utterly confusing amount of choice of Garmin watches. When using the filters on their website, indicating what I'm looking for in a watch, I get no less than 4 pages and 55 (!) different watches recommended. 55!! And somehow the Forerunner 955 is listed but the 965 isn't.... I understand there are different styles of watches to suit different people. But just at least break the loaded software down into 3 types like bronze, silver, gold. Based on the type of activities you do / functionality you need, you first select if you need a bronze, silver or gold software version. And then you choose the style of watch that you like based on your style and use, in either the bronze, silver or gold edition. This would make so much more sense. A Forerunner Silver is a Fenix Silver but in a different housing. Done. An Epix gold has more functionality than a Epix silver when it comes to software. Done. And if Garmin would like to differentiate anyway between more 'premium' watches, then just never produce a Forerunner Gold and keep that for the Fenix and Epix series only, for example. Now it's just.....pfffffff

[@ted363636]

Just wondering what are security updates for these watches? My friend uses a Fenix 3 which is like 9 years old now and do you really think someone can hack it or what?

[@thefitfile]

Your Garmin watch holds some aspects of credit card data (likely not the actual card, but just a token of sorts), plus protected music from providers that want security assurances. And that's on top of personal data, including women's health data. As always, how people define what is valuable to them from a PII standpoint varies, though, the law (at least in the EU) is pretty clear on that. -Ray

[@ted363636]

@@thefitfile Got it, thanks. I just don't think a watch is likely to be targeted by hackers but you never know :)

[@4ankers]

Have a Fenix 6 solar and love it so much. Would love an amoled display but have no need to upgrade at all. Charging this thing never crosses my mind. And I’m the UK so it’s definitely not the solar power from the sun 😂

[@andrushkaus]

Simple = better. This might be the time when it's a valid argument. I've had Forerunner, Fenix, Instinct. I don't use music on my watch, no need for wifi per se, also don't use Garmin Pay. So Enduro first gen is probably what I'll go for for my next watch. it's now sub $500. I'll go for Enduro over Instinct just because Instinct is slower and I don't trust it's HR, to be honest.

[@listrahtes]

Tech influencers are sometimes the worst. "No serious complaints" Yeah right if you ignore everything and only use the 51mm EPix. So let me get this straight: 1) No use as a bike computer due to dimming (they ignore that). You have to constantly touch the screen to read it. Thats a huge negative for a multisportswatches and deletes bike mode. 2) the clunky annoying gesture mode that simply doesnt work well depending on your running style 3) Autodim and being outdoors a lot less visible than real auto always on with MIP. 4) autodimming in map mode 5) a LOT burn ins after 2 years with Epix first gen users so your 1k sports watch will have a much shorter lifecycle 6) A lot more recharging cycles means the battery looses capacity much earlier 7) MIP is much closer to a real watch why (some will kill me for that) AMOLED is ugly on a watch in the sense that its too distracting in normal environment and emits so much light with such bright colours. havent even mentioned everything. I dont mind people enjoying amoled but if you consider yourself a reviewer and not just a hype job for the industry at least mention it and be honest about its implications.

[@HannesSchmiderer]

When I replaced my Fenix 5 with the Fenix 7 Pro Sapphire Solar I was disappointed by the display. The display of the 7 Pro Sapphire Solar is much harder to read then the one of the Fenix 5. Mainly because of reflections and especially in not that perfect light conditions. At first I thought maybe I should have gone with the Epix as its battery life has improved too. But meanwhile I'm used to using the light button more often and still prefer the long battery life.

[@keithmoehring144]

I love my Fenix 6x pro, and I do have a apple watch 7 (sucks by the way). I'm waiting for the Fenix 8 pro in the next year or so.

[@kennethpetersen8219]

suggestion for topic : why cant garmin watch not do street navigation like apple watch "maps", garmin once where leading in navigation and now this feature are in apple watch and not in garmin

[@pebond]

Des, I like your hoodie! Which is the brand of this hoodie? Thanks! Great job guys!

[@thefitfile]

That one was a Patagonia. Other videos I've had on a Prana. Thanks!

[@kristinjensen5367]

I hoped you would mention something about the Suunto / UTMB collaboration and what that could mean for Suunto users

[@vpnconsult]

What if the Fenix 8 will be called the Fenix Enduro 8?

[@JuhaYlitalo]

Garmin's selection of models starts to sound similar to what Nokia had on mobile phones segment, before everything went sore (and iPhone and Android phones rushed to take the market).

[@neilcatley9474]

Interesting battery life chat with regards to AMOLED and MIP.. but you didnt talk about max battery for a GPS activity. How long can one of these newer AMOLED models manage with navigations and always on display? Anywhere near the 20+ hours of the MIP models ?

[@thefitfile]

Easily. Epix Pro 'All Systems' GPS time is 48hrs for always-on display, versus Fenix Pro in that same GPS/etc mode is 63hrs - and even higher for both if you want just GPS-only. So, we're not talking a massive difference here. -Ray

[@neilcatley9474]

@@thefitfile Wow - much more impressive than I was expecting.. Maybe AMOLED is a solid option for ultras after all...

[@robhunt8378]

Garmin states: For Fenix Pro 47mm -> 57hrs (73hrs with solar). For Epix Pro 47mm -> 42 hours (30 hours always-on). No matter what option those are pretty impressive battery life numbers, but going from 57 hours to 30 hours shows how much of an impact Amoled has.

[@neilcatley9474]

@@robhunt8378 yep, agreed. As long as I don't have to charge during a 100k, I'm happy. Anything longer and I'd likely be carrying spare batteries anyway, so an extra cable is no issue.

[@pmink47]

Coming from a forerunner 955 to an epix pro, 2 things that are annoying. On the forerunner, it'll tell you where the weather data is coming from in the widget. epix not so much. Also, in any structured activity, they both start beeping at 5 sec countdown, but forerunner gave a vibration at 2-1-0 sec, and epix only at 0. With headphones on, can easily miss that transition

[@georgevadnais3516]

Good job guys👌🫶😎

[@thefitfile]

Thanks!

[@tonymammone1653]

For my use case, I use a Fenix 6 Pro on my handlebars when riding a road bike. If the Fenix were to move to Amoled, how will I be able to see the screen? Won’t it time out? Also battery life will probably not last long enough for this way I use the watch, to work.

[@Dnserror88]

Garmin's solution for you: buy a bike computer. They don't care lol, just want to sell more products.

[@MyNameIs-ht9vs]

Charging once a week and having AMOLED is my way to go. Most of TOP tier devices already deliver this. AMOLED so much better, wont go back to MIP

[@leonardob8441]

If you are an active athlete going out every day and run or walk or hike for more than 2-3 hours then MIP is the only option.

[@Bob_Betty]

I just upgraded from a cheap Chinese brand to a Garmin Edge Explorer, now looking at a Garmin gps watch to sync with that and Kamoot, in the price point mentioned 300/400 uk,so many options! Without much significant USP. I want sports features for my 100 mile cycles, with decent battery life and payment, smart phone options for driving. It's definitely over complicated. I won't ever buy Apple or Huawei because of Android and uk Security so Garmin seems the best option.

[@iMaxPatten]

MIP apologists and ultra runners/expeditioners will probably have at least one model in the lineup for their needs. Solar AMOLED one day would be very compelling.

[@crashandfreeze]

I went from a Fenix5x to Epix2. MIP to Amoled. I was very skeptical, but after living with it for a month, there's no going back. MIP is stone age. Battery life is enough even with always on display. Next, I tried Apple Watch Ultra. I didn't intend to, I just got one. Then I realized I didn't need all the fancy Garmin features, just heart rate and running pace. There's no going back to Garmin either. For just one simple reason. Garmin bugs. I've been putting up with Garmin flakiness for years. I can't see it ever getting any better.

[@whiteapps]

I have both the 945 and 265. I strongly prefer the 945 MIP screen. It is very annoying to use the 265 amoled in bright sunlight. Will not be buying an amoled watch again.

[@nrs8043]

What about privacy? Your data with 3rd party providers accessing via watch faces and apps. I’d love a deep dive and more awareness on this!

[@LauraŚp-f8q]

amoled is pointless for performance sports trail/enduro/sports watch pro.

[@patkob2180]

This is such a first world podcast

[@Ssssyyyyyyyyyy]

Aren't they all?

[@Rickline84]

Still prefer MIP. AMOLED is a no go for me.

[@sskoutofdoors9503]

Agreed. I don't want another "phone" screen.

[@steeevt]

How soon until we see an amoled edge bike computer?

[@RumbleBack-iz3tl]

The garmin influencers have spoken 😂✌️

[@samchm]

So des brings power meter pedals when going over to Ray? Isn't that like bringing a sandwich to the restaurant?

[@thefitfile]

😂😂😂

[@RunningItVR]

LOVE the Amoled display on my 265. Specifically bought it because of the display (among other features). Battery life is still great. It’s not 14+ days, but I’m okay with that.

[@peterrexer2366]

Does the 165 replace the 255?

[@johanrg70]

No

[@highseastrader4190]

The 265 already (kinda) replaced the 255 😉

[@Outcome_Agent]

I hope they never change the Fenix screens

[@Trailcat2024]

There’s no way they can put all that stuff into a FR 65 with out amoled , and it still not be $250. It’s totally worth the $50 extra.

[@danieloherrick6332]

Lenovo has the same problem with WAY too many series / models.