The Endless Controversies of Vivziepop

[@DefinitelyBoredOranges]

Update: lol This was posted wat after my birthday lmao My socials: twitter: twitter.com/BoredOranges Discord: discord.gg/zYCKUcBtbD Intsa: instagram.com/boredoranges/

[@Goofygang524]

Hey can you make a video on major cloog and his grooming Allegations

[@dfgd2402]

Definitely Bored Oranges is a beggar who tries to get people to subscribe. If you want those, EARN THEM! People will do them when THEY WANT to, not when you WANT THEM to. You do not deserve subscriptions.

[@symbiote3220]

yea throw us that shit plug

[@nightmarecorpse5120]

want money go out and get a real job

[@lilatune]

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????@@nightmarecorpse5120

[@davidci]

Thank you for actually being objective about it. Twitter is a pain to scroll through for anything regarding Helluva Boss/Hazbin Hotel/Vivziepop. On one hand, you have an insane amount of people acting as if Vivziepop killed their family and burned their houses to the ground, on the other hand there are some that make her seem too much of an angel and saint. With how Twitter goes, misinformation plagues both sides.

[@nol4nity]

the truest ever

[@ponikoTV]

people on twitter forget that viv is a human and not a demon or a goddess, literally she is just a human

[@Diamond1234]

Ah, demonization or hero worship, the worse state to be in. What is really comes down to in the end, is that people have a hard time not making people that make things they like into an idol and proceed to do that, forgetting that even if they are nice, they are human and have flaws...like the rest of us. They aren't some perfect creator god, they are just like you and me and make mistakes.

[@adrianaslund8605]

Binary thinking. Ironically.

[@treyyert9561]

Not everyone can comprehend that not everything is black and white

[@Spider8itchy]

Vivzie definitely isnt perfect but she isnt the devil and idk why people paint her as perfectly good either

[@assssaaasasass]

It's a problem with every content creator nowadays too, people looks up to them and when some bad things are revealed they can't accept that their idol is not a good person. Human beings aren't perfect saints... 🤦‍♀️

[@christianedwards9025]

It's simple, they're jealous. They idolize her so much thinking she can't do no wrong, and when she does something human, they try to destroy her for it. Why because they're jealous of her success, since it's not your own.

[@LunaMane]

Yeah. Especially after that whole mess with the creator of Five Nights At Freddy's. I don't fully remember who said what, but I know that what Vivziepop said wasn't entirely cool. Of course, she didn't deserve doxxing threats in kind. She still shouldn't have said that the FNAF creator deserved that unwarranted hell. Her of all people should know that bias gets indie creators nowhere. Unfortunately that's not always a given.

[@Spiderwither]

“Isn’t the devil” is kinda an ironic statement considering what her animation series is about

[@spookyartistonyt]

@@Spiderwither Christians be like: You Christians get *easily* so upset over stupid calm down and take a chill pill!

[@FranTheNerd]

honestly my take away is vivzie is a person that can be a bit of a shitty boss to some people due to personal bias but the drama gets WAYYYYY overblown. She just seems....eh? Like okay, not the best person but far from satan

[@mageofdoomsie1598]

She's the boss of a company. She can't be all hugs and kisses to everyone and be everyone's best friend all the time, she has a business to run and people to pay. Not saying she hasn't made mistakes, but a lot of criticisms I see of her personality as a boss is just...normal boss behavior?

[@FranTheNerd]

@@mageofdoomsie1598 yeah, agreed. Like there's points to criticise but overall the hatedom is just overblowing everything

[@EVILHORSE666]

that’s why helleva boss exists *bud dum crash* I don’t even watch it

[@RebellionInHell]

To be honest this channel has covered worse people.

[@nyancreeperpony]

As someone who's a fan of Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel....yeah, you summed it up nicely.

[@Project4Yaura]

This just makes me realize how much of a mess a vocal part of the community can make things. There is actual criticism and good points people make but it gets buried by these people who just want drama or who treat someone like god. I feel sorry that you had to look through that garbage just to find info

[@quinnholloway5400]

Yea, and there is many fair criticisms to be made about her shows Helluva Season 2 especially in terms of pacing/how some of the plot points are handled But it can get muted and drowned out by the people who seem to think Viv is some monster

[@Goremize]

@@quinnholloway5400 or how much treat Viv as a saint. Its interesting how social media has gone both ways, you either have toxic negative, or toxic positive. Its so much harder to see the middle ground.

[@quinnholloway5400]

@@Goremize yee

[@gigachad3925]

Toxicity directed towards the creators of public media has always existed. The reason it's so pronounced with Vivziepop is that there's a perceived "accessibility" to her that's been otherwise unheard of for showrunners. She runs an independent team with a creative process that's derived from and steeped in internet culture. She's always on twitter interacting with fans. It makes her a perceived easier target compared to the traditional showrunner hired by a media corporation.

[@BestOneEver247]

🔴

[@avivastudios2311]

Yeah, if I ever create something big I'll never talk to fans online.

[@coooooooooooooooorn]

Thanks gigachad

[@WardofSquid]

Gigachad take from a gigachad

[@webbyishere]

W take.

[@dangernoodle3343]

Her biggest issue is her inability to handle criticism and spending waaaay too much time on twitter.

[@Morning_Starr]

Sounds like Thomas Astruc

[@retr0prime_812]

So basically the same problem that every internet animator have?

[@gjkdshgkjshjkgdfg]

twitter being a disease as always

[@FeministCatwoman]

I actually felt kind of bad because ever since I found her channel I really enjoyed a lot of her work, but I kept getting negative vibes the more I explored and especially when I saw the Hazbin pilot with its racist and sexist jokes and the Helluva pilot with the ableist slur... I honestly dismissed it because I thought "oh well, that's just how a lot of people 'joked around' at the time it was made", but afterwards I realized it was more than that. The art style screamed at me, it's the type of style that for some reason a lot of toxic personalities, and the worst examples of humanity within the furry fandom, tend to gravitate towards. I don't even know why I think that. It's probably just bad coincidence that I just HAPPENED to have come across a lot of toxic people that simply enjoy and use that art style, even though there is nothing wrong with the style itself. I definitely don't think the creator is a bad person, yet it stands to reason that since most people are bad, she probably is too if I'm honest. Still doesn't deserve silly rumors spread around for no reason though.

[@artistanthony1007]

That last thing is also criticism and what does she do? She stays on Twitter and you try to tell her to get a PR Manager, it's the same thing and she's in charge of the writing & voicing 2 CHARACTERS IN WESTERN ENERGY and why I know Viv wants to exaughst herself.

[@zed9256]

Yeah, I have a complicated relationship with Helluva. I really enjoy the art style. It reminds me of Invader Zim and Villanous. On the other hand, I feel the plot-driven direction hurt the show. I am a huge fan of lore and character development, but it doesn’t have to be heavy for me to enjoy something. When I see episodes like the pilot, the first episode, Loo Loo Land, and CHERUB, it feels more “on brand” for Helluva Boss. Comedy, action, characters, with a simpler but still noticeable plot. I just think it got turned into the “Blitz and Stolas Show” and any other character dynamic was thrown aside. Hazbin was supposed to be the plot driven show.

[@the-postal-dude]

same here. it's kind of lost its actual plot from what i've seen, since it's not really about imp anymore. (also iirc, zim's voice actor voices moxie or whatever his name is)

[@uijiijoiji]

@@the-postal-dude i wished they could have kept it episodic workplace comedy

[@the-postal-dude]

@@uijiijoiji same here

[@quinnholloway5400]

Yea and the thing is, Hazbin isn't even out yet And A24 has barely let viv advertize the show or even show much Expect the redesigns and few teasers now and then I honestly agree that Helluva should have kept things less plot driven/story driven Maybe there would be some overarching plots at times, but when the show started being more focused on episodes with some big plot piece It kinda feels at times like they are more doing a big plot because they feel thats what people want instead of a show thats less plot focused (You know, like Smiling Friends, a show that doesn't have a overarching plot and yet is still loads of fun)

[@uijiijoiji]

@@quinnholloway5400 Yep I agree it should have been less plot focused like smiling friends and Hazbin hotel should be the plot focused one

[@thomassas]

The voices shut up when oranges speaks

[@ETMN205]

Personally Orange contributes to those voices

[@mememachine6658]

Wonderful news Thomassas

[@encerdardner]

They like him CLEARLY

[@sammytheman_taken]

​@scarletgoat173how would that even be based

[@Resident_minor]

Oranges is the voices

[@QuitoTheSpiderMonkey]

Let's be honest; most of the drama surrounding Vivziepop is stupid. As a teenage Vivziepop fan, I will say that this is more high-school drama than the *actual high-school drama* I've heard in classrooms. Vivziepop is not innocent, but she is not the shining angel many people paint her to be. Brodie needs to learn from her mistakes because this is the quote: "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it" in one reputation.

[@ballmunch6714]

im not suprised you had to specify teenager because no one over the age of 13 thinks her content is good

[@foxbuns]

Vivziepop has drawn lots of explicit z*0phile art, that's the farthest thing from "high school drama" I can think of

[@ianmaluk1]

Trashfires are still fun to watch though.

[@Acesspaded]

@@foxbunsI like how you comment this, but in the video they isn’t any real proof to the zoophile art claims. Do you have real proof or do you just take the worst possible take from one of her drawings? Please do tell.

[@TheManWhoErasedHisNane]

@@ballmunch6714Just because you don’t like it bud doesn’t mean ya gotta pretend everyone else agrees with you.

[@gordonramslay9955]

one of my favourite crazy fandom stories is that one time someone permanently dyed their skin grey - by laying in a bath of sharpie ink - for a homestuck cosplay.

[@GumSkyloard]

Isn't that actually a rumour?

[@ghoulchan7525]

i think that was a rumor. but if that person did do it... alcohol poisoning.

[@samc4978]

It happened. There were photos on /cgl. She didn't permanently dye her skin, but she did ruin the hotel bathtub. Because she did it at an anime convention.

[@VictorPhaeron]

And then they got homestucks banned from that con, no grey facepaint type thing

[@ghoulchan7525]

@@VictorPhaeron mainly because young cosplayers didn't seal their bodypaint and it got into everything. like furniture and more. so i don't blame some Venue hosts no longer allowing people with body paint on, on the property.

[@alanatedmon3906]

I remember one of Vivzie Pop's animators going- 'HELP, my boss won't get off twitter. 😭'

[@hypernebula8711]

Pretty much hit the nail right on the head! She’s not malicious, she’s not evil or some mastermind. She makes mistakes as we all do and can learn from them like all of us can! I swear the endless horde of lowlifes trawling her past for shit to pull up is kinda sick if you think about it

[@zed9256]

Reminds me of a certain triangle wonan doing the same to a Swedishman.

[@blookp]

Is abusing her employees and paying under minimum wage a mistake orrr

[@AlexanderFromTheStarDimension]

@@blookp Um did you watch the part where he said there wasn't substantial evidence to support her "abusing employees"... or the part where he said her other employees spoke positively about work conditions and defended her? There's multiple perspectives so I'm not sure why you're only choosing to go with the negative one.

[@lordcheesedevil]

Multiple people on viv's team say that she treats them well and pays them well

[@spookyplaysroblox]

It's Twitter! People like to dig up things from many many years ago just to start a show on Twitter for their entertainment because their borad as fuck and nothing better to do: And their blue hair people who live on Twitter! Hopefully one day these endless heated topics would end: Because after awhile....these endless heated topics about her... *Their boring,Same topic 24/7 about her,annoying,ect* I know what know someone gonna say: "Why are watching this video then?" It came up on feed,nerd! 🤓 I'm surprise no one said she's a p*do--oh wait...lots of people who dislike her are gonna pull that card next! 🥱

[@bechnokid]

I'm sure this comment will be buried under the others, but I would like to mention that I was friends with Ken for a little over 7 years until one of their victims came out about the abuse they endured, and I can confirm that they are very protective over their ideas. Ken had to deal with a lot of art theives in the past, and a lot of these concepts (while not entirely original) mean a lot to them. Unfortunately, this paranoia would affect nearly all of their friends, myself included. It wasn't uncommon for them or one of their friends to confront me about supposedly "copying" a trait that one of their characters happened to have. It was a bit of a mess, and there was a lot of the paranoia caused a lot of unnecessary stress and drama. Ken is very polite, but I certainly felt like I was walking on eggshells around them. Seeing that PDF honestly doesn't surprise me.

[@sailorstar3148]

So Ken isn’t as innocent as people think honestly, I don’t blame Viv for being hostile towards them. I have a question do you still have contact with Ken or did you cut them off?

[@bechnokid]

@@sailorstar3148 I don't condone being hostile towards others in general, but I can definitely say that Ken saying that Viv "stole" their ideas is a pretty big reach, even for them. To answer your question, I've cut them off a couple of years before Hazbin Hotel came out.

[@sailorstar3148]

@@bechnokid Geez I can’t even imagine having a some called friend like that who would constantly accusing you of stealing their ideas when their ideas weren’t even original. This is just like how Zerofinix would throw a hissy fit that someone else’s character has blonde hair and blue eyes when her character, Elena the blonde hedgehog (yes, she has to specify that she’s blonde) literally looks like a rip off of Maria Robotic. That’s just insane and I am really sorry that you had to deal with that like I can’t understand their fear of having their art stolen, but they got understand that not every idea is original it’s been done before.

[@gleek781]

@@sailorstar3148 you mean he's not .. kenough/ j😂

[@sailorstar3148]

@@gleek781 oh dang XD

[@Creator-bean]

Sadly I'm apart of the HH and HB fandom and I can personally say, HB "fans" are just either little kids or people that aren't technically fans lol. They just want to hate on literally anything. Edit: welp, guess a lot of people agree with me. Wohoo

[@Airy_host]

Fr tho

[@TheKylebear]

Really? Why can't people just enjoy their shows and avoid conflict, not being overbearingly ungrateful with overwhelming nonsense fueled by their taste in themes. If you don't like it, walk away.

[@Creator-bean]

@@TheKylebear EXACTLY!!

[@_MECHA_]

Not all. I know some normal ones

[@Creator-bean]

@@_MECHA_ true true. Sadly the bad ones tend to overshadow the good.

[@disassemblyfactory]

A fan of HH/HB for the artists and animators. Not a fan of Vivzie for personal reasons. Vivzie is the head of two animations/teams for the animations. A lot of the recent drama comes from her pettiness. If she wants to be out of drama and not have her mental health drained, she needs to stay off of social media unless it is to promote her shows or updates on them. Or support others! Imo, if she wants a more personal Twitter for mutuals and close friends, I suggest making a second one. But that's my opinion. There are things you didn't cover, but they aren't much of drama more than people pointing things out. Either way, happy birthday, Orange! Welcome to the 18 squad. 🤝 Edit: For those wondering what I mean by pettiness, I'm talking about her giving attention to trolls. Trolls want the attention and she shouldn't be giving them any. It's what is causing more problems in the first face. I'm not saying she's the devil incarnate, but she isn't an angel either. Never worship or expect the best out of your idols. They're human like you and I.

[@ma.2089]

Recently tho she’s been on social media to defend the ppl who work for her. Not really pettiness. I do agree she should stay of social media cuz it’s cancer

[@sailorstar3148]

@@ma.2089 Oh yeah, I like that one situation where the va for Loona from Helluva Boss Erica left Twitter because some jerk made an AI cover of one of her songs, using her voice and she asked for a person to take it down, which leads to her getting harassed off of Twitter. And that person who made the AI cover have a nerve to talk crap about it that led to Viv defending Erica. There are tweets that Viv has that are questionable, but most of the time she defends her self and her crew.

[@oranjaglad8648]

@@sailorstar3148 I don't get why people get worked up over that. I mean, I guess Viv shouldn't get into too much arguments, but what's wrong with her defending the people she works with?

[@sailorstar3148]

@@oranjaglad8648 It’s is really rare to see a boss stand out for their employees and I love to see it

[@disassemblyfactory]

@@sailorstar3148 See, that's a bit different. I'm talking about where trolls are being trolls and she gives them attention. That is what the trolls want. Attention. I'm not talking about her defending her crew and stuff. I should have specified in my comment.

[@spme1]

I'm gonna be honest. The only reason I've been hating Vivziepop so much is because she bought Jiji/jayjay/jay's design, as well as a bunch of other designs and threw a fit about DollCreep asking for proper character design credit. So now she doesn't credit DollCreep at all. DollCreep Didn't want to sell their characters. But, ended up having to due to some financial issues. The whole thing is all over the place on DA, Tumblr, and in drawings on google search. Other than that I haven't been keeping up on Vivzie. This was all YEARS ago so I don't give much of a fuck anymore. But, I do bring it up whenever character designs are brought up and I know that DC is the designer- Idk if that's bad but I mostly bring it up as a "fun fact" now

[@monoex]

Thank you for this video. Vivzie is far from perfect... because shocker, she's human. Honestly, I've seen WAY worse from creators who don't get nearly as much hate as she does. It feels like a lot of the "criticism" towards her is either fueled by misinformation or jealousy. It sucks because people believe it, then go out of their way to harass fans of her work. Here's to hoping this clears some stuff up for those people.

[@mothwood4781]

Its wild how people hate vivziepop so much there's an entire other fandom dedicated to being " anti " hazbin/helluva ... It's very strange to me to be 'anti' a cartoon show? I get that she's like ... Kind of a not great person. But the kind of hatred she gets is wild

[@sprixiesomeoneswifeandgirl3617]

Meh, it's kind of common. If a fandom gets large and beastly enough, people will decide to be active haters of something. Undertale had it really bad in its peak. I think it's often caused by people seeing something popular enough to invade all of their internet spaces and not getting the appeal. A lot of people feel the need to justify why they hate/feel annoyed by something and tend to go straight for "the show and or the creator is bad!"

[@Skycrusher]

You can't fathom the hatred someone you likes receives, but you'll casually spew the same hatred out to everyone and anyone who disagrees with you. Rules for thee but not for me.

[@doodleoffice221]

It's very common. Since the early internet. And only expected if anything. I remember deviantart and other early internet forums having anti-literally a single cartoon character, along with many antishows etc. It depends on popularity. Hb has more than enough of it to have hate groups.

[@arkbien9303]

​@@doodleoffice221Back in the ancient times of Netscape and Geocities, it was extremely cool to hate on certain characters. I personally remember the seething hate fandom people had for Sailor Moon's Rini/Chibi Usa.

[@skeetle_leets]

Happy late birthday dude! Just started listening to your stuff while I draw and adore your style of commentary! Can’t wait to hear you more and best of wishes! 🎉✨

[@BeastlyEevee]

Honestly, I find it so hard to care about any "vizie drama" due to how overblown so many of it was. Sneezing wrong? Drama! Used a racial slur? Drama! Was ignorant about Insert Hot Button Topic here? Drama! Apologizes for bad behavior? Drama! Assassinated the president? Drama! All treated the same way, despite some obviously not being equal in impact. It gets to the point of people just assuming it's another cry wolf scenario. Also, while I am not a fan of Viziepop's stuff (I do enjoy it off and on), I just wanna say I'm stoked on how successful Vizie got with her own shows as an indie creator. It's nice to see creators making their stories a reality, ya know?

[@sailorstar3148]

Thank you finally someone have to say it like I swear it feels like Vivzie has to walk on eggshells and be a good perfect angel that can do no wrong. Like come on guys she is human and she is going to make mistakes. They need to stop blowing her mistakes out of proportion and believing allegations with zero evidence.(especially alligators when the allegations are flawed) also, I don’t think that she should be babied she’s 30 years old. I am a Vivzie fan and I won’t deny that she has made mistakes but I don’t think she’s a bad person.

[@sailorstar3148]

Now about Kendraws I don’t blame Viv for thinking that they’re hostile, because they got upset with her over the littlest of things (except for the credit with drawing and Cherri Bomb) and Kim pointing out one or two things Viv has done wrong will it make them innocent either.

[@The-Black-Death]

Right, because apparently her supporting the Fnaf creator being doxed and having his family harassed is perfectly fine I guess, just because he's a republican makes it totally justified...

[@sailorstar3148]

@@The-Black-Death I find your other crappy copy and paste reply

[@The-Black-Death]

@@sailorstar3148 Seems you aren't too intelligent to realize I've posted the same response to the same hivemind npc takes of you people who try to justify and defend this horrid person. I've seen the tweets, so don't even try to lie about it, it's pretty crystal clear what happened.

[@greyblueme9711]

Heads up on proshippers, it's just people not supporting d3ath thr3ats or harassment against people shipping, they can still personally not like a ship or certain dynamics (l°li/age gap), best example would be if you're in the Steven Universe fandom and personally ship lapidot you wouldn't send death threats against someone who ships lapis×pearl or look favorably on those doing it

[@crystalwhisp]

That was the less popular one. Most people who use that label are gross and use it to justify drawing nsfw of underage characters. Proship = problematic shipping usually in my experience.

[@imastupid5876]

​@crystalwhisp9720 I don't know. I may have seen fewer people pushing for OP's definition, but that's just because there are so many more people pushing a bad faith definition. I can understand why people become uncomfortable because of said definition becoming misconstued, but that doesn't mean it's correct. In any case, proshipping =/= problematic shipping, mostly because that's not how english works. Yes, people tend to ship problematic things while (sometimes) using the label of proshipper, but the "pro-" in that word does not mean problematic. Doesn't help that people label themselves problematic instead of proshipper, or think that the anti vs pro argument is stupid while also shipping problematic things. I personally do think this whole argument is stupid myself, but I don't mind interacting with either side as long as there's no harassment or worse going on.

[@lisaa3957]

meh that's not really a good definition anymore if it ever was. in an ideal world, yea. but both sides tends to do the harassment and d3ath thr3ats. from my own experience when I was a 15y/o on tumblr years ago, I was harassed by proships for a month bc I made an untagged vent post abt nsfw sh0tacon in the general tag of a shounen anime. and this wasn't just a couple of accounts. I eventually just shut down the whole account bc I was 15 and getting d3ath thr3ats, r4pe thr3ats, adults claiming to know where I lived. p0rn and pics of mutilated bodies were sent to me before I turned off submissions. I tried to deal with it and then I gave up so that whole holier than thou, "we don't harass people" shtick they do is just for optics. no one really believes it anymore. personaly I truly don't give a shit what people ship, just keep the weirdass and nsfw ship stuff out of where it can be easily found by people not looking for it doubly so if it's a kids show. I've never harassed Anyone over a ship but you'll never catch me aligning with the proships bc they are Not anti harassment, never have been. they're just pro "let me do whatever I want without making me think critically, even indirectly, about my actions or ill sic my followers on you"

[@aceofspadesssss]

As a writer, I've always been heavily judgmental towards Helluva Boss, mainly due to its writing being absolute garbage. However Viv doesn't deserve to be lied about this much, nobody does. Edit: Kay, wanna go on record to say, my reply section is somehow still alive. It's been 5 months and it's still going. Just gonna say right now, that although I appreciate all the conversations I got to have, I'm an extremely busy person and cannot keep up with them. So I'm hereby proclaiming that I'm not going to reply to any new people any longer. (Besides one person.) However, feel free to use my replies as a (semi) safe space to discuss things if you want. Edit edit: 666 likes, haha. Silly.

[@sailorstar3148]

Thank you she really doesn’t even when you don’t agree with the writing on the show

[@aceofspadesssss]

@@sailorstar3148 Yeah, I apologize for anyone saying she does.

[@sailorstar3148]

@@aceofspadesssss It’s like they think that people can’t change what like I understand holding people accountable but they’re a difference between holding people, accountable and accusing them of terrible things with no evidence, and the alligation is very flawed

[@godzzwrath]

finally someone who also agrees that the viv shows have awful writing

[@sailorstar3148]

@@godzzwrath And even they think that she doesn’t deserve the constant hate no matter how bad the writing is.

[@PWEPPL]

finally a video i can watch and actually understand what is going on! thanks for making this fr I've seen videos that just don't summarize the drama in a meaningful way or drag it out when its really not that big of a deal

[@TheDigitalApple]

If you ask me, I feel like the majority of Vivziepop’s controversies are due to her not being able to take criticism very well.

[@ma.2089]

Yeah but some of her criticism isn’t that, and just outright hate.

[@ma.2089]

So it’s hard to respond when you’re defensive towards insults

[@VANILLAMILKISGUD]

YES thank you whenever I say this people call me crazy I’m so glad I’m not the only one

[@tylere.8436]

​@@ma.2089Like what?

[@artistanthony1007]

​@@ma.2089She views all criticism as hate, can't you see that? Hell why do you think she hadn't hired a PR Manager or stopped interacting so much on Twitter? Because that's criticism and she hates it.

[@Bee..]

A note about proshipping- it doesn’t mean that you, personally, are ok with every ship. It means that you think every ship has the right to exist, so then it can be critiqued and discussed, as opposed to censoring contentious/immoral ship content outright. Pro shippers also generally believe that just because someone has written about something, that doesn’t mean they endorse that thing- ex. Writing about murder/torture doesn’t mean you support it irl. The pro in pro ship doesn’t stand for problematic, it’s more of a “I disagree with you but still acknowledge that you have a right to exist so I can tell you why you suck” sort of a deal

[@_crowfisher]

disregarding the lack of nuance around the proship/antiship discourse that it honestly requires to not sound like "eww this groups is bad and this group is good" discourse, cool video.

[@silverdrag0n_]

ah, a fellow intellectual

[@kawaii-pigeon]

Same, wtf even was that segment? Anyway enjoyed listening to the rest of the video

[@RedFloyd469]

"personal repulsion or fear of abnormality = morally bad thing" is a well used rhetorical device for people that have no arguments otherwise. You see it on youtube all the time. Nothing new, sadly. Let's keep in mind that we are talking about fictional characters and cartoon drawings/raunchy fan fics of them. The terminally online and the normies act as if they were personallly assaulted in real life. here's a not so hot take: What the internet sees as "degenerates" are mostly just normal people in every other regard except for very specific social taboos that are otherwise harmless. It takes intellectual honesty to admit that, but that contradicts the tribalist mentality, and we just can't have that on the internet.

[@superemoboi2050]

8:22 Small correction, proship doesn't mean you're "ok with every ship". It just means that you're not gonna harass someone over their ship(s)/choice in media. Yes, there are quite a lot of people that identify as proship, and ship problematic things, but that doesn't mean that every proshipper does. Proship does not inherently mean "problematic". It can include that, yes, but it doesn't have to. Otherwise, great video.

[@ShinePaw101]

There’s a study (not from proshippers) showing how the movement started and it’s exactly this. Saying you won’t tell people to kts over fiction or harass them. I’d be happy to provide said article if anyone asks.

[@silverdrag0n_]

i'm so glad we have some sane people in the comments

[@oranjaglad8648]

Not gonna lie, all of these controversies Vivziepop got in just make me not want to make my own show, let alone an original series. Because who knows how it'll impact my mental state?

[@cheyblake2475]

I guess have more than one person working inpon it to not stress about finishing it?

[@oranjaglad8648]

@@cheyblake2475 I suppose. But even then, all of the shit from the Helluva Boss fandom just almost made me reconsider writing my own characters a certain way.

[@boxylemons7961]

this is gonna sound harsh but inevitably yes your going to face people who will hate your work. I'm not sure how your mental health is or what disorders you may have, but frankly just know you don't have to please everyone, make what you enjoy, if someone has reasonable criticism feel free to listen but if people are just being inflammatory you don't have to.

[@T_E_G]

​@@boxylemons7961 Yeah that's really it. It's literally facing reality/the truth, it doesn't matter how you want to avoid it, it's just going to happen

[@oranjaglad8648]

@@boxylemons7961 I know, but again, seeing how the Helluva Boss fandom merely exists, I'm not taking any fucking chances.

[@AngryMothNoises]

I never really got the 'pro/anti shipper' shit. Its fiction and if you don't like it????? Okay? Block the content I guess? Who cares? You will have people who want to RP Game of Thrones but will completely disregard the feelings of their friends because...... 'incest characters'. (not that incest is a good thing. its not) Its just weird people get up in arms about fictional shit while also being awful to real, breathing people. If someone is into weird fictional shit I just avoid them and the content they like?

[@melasnexperience]

Everything about her & her controversies has been at the unholy crossroads of Art Twitter & Fandom Twitter (Animation Division), where people like to simultaneously talk about kindness & righteousness while looking for the flimsiest reasons to threaten to kill each other. It is fun to watch from the outside as they endlessly excuse reasons to attack each other, though.

[@dreamingleviathan3354]

Happy late birthday as someone who has had not only close connection with some of the people involved in both Hazbin and Hellova, Vivzie does not create this toxic fanbase... but she does allow it to grow. It seems like anytime I see a part of the Hazbin fandom it is toxic and gross. I legitimately don't think I've ever met a single group that obsesses over this show that aren't incredibly toxic and dangerous people, and I've met A LOT of people from this fanbase. Not to mention the incredibly... stupid way this show draws in teens and kids despite it being PRETTY EXPRESSLY for adults, like has anyone else noticed that? This fanbase has SO MANY KIDS in it that its creepy as hell. Most blame can be laid at the communities feet for how toxic this fanbase is, but lets not kid ourselves that Vivzie could easily drive those kinds of people away if she made any effort to Also Vivzie has hired, supported, and encouraged Avatar Rippers in VRC so that's also a fun topic and I've seen it happen over 5 times in the past 4 years so yeah.

[@T_E_G]

A KZbinr who gave criticism/his thoughts about her show got harassed by fans. Insulting him and using stuff they knew about him that he had to deactivate his Twitter account. That is what I heard from the people in his comment section were saying, feeling bad for what he went through (KZbinr: Cartoonshi) I'd hate it if I saw my work tearing people apart which honestly happens a lot, haven't seen her bring this up to her community so I don't think she cares :7

[@BlooftubeBloof]

She literally has no control over this, she's managing 2 whole video productions. Are you seriously blaming her for a fanbase she can't control?

[@dreamingleviathan3354]

@@BlooftubeBloof Do you look or follow any media with her present except the twitter one? She regularly insults, denounces, and lies to people. This isnt a case of no control over a bad situation, she IS the bad situation. If steps were made to distance herself from the people who do really shitty things in this community then I would agree. If steps were taken by her to seperate her product and the shitheels in this community I would agree. However she does not, and having experianced lived ruined or LOST because of the extreme toxicity of its fanbase, Im reminded that Vivzie DOES allow these things to happen. And its not like this isnt brought to her attention, she just ignores it. Not even bringing up the fact that she hires and ENDORSED very toxic individuals who have SWATTED someones family before on multiple occasions. This isnt Good Creator/ Bad Community This is Supportive Creator/Cancerous Community And if someone wants to fire back "then just leave lol". I lost a family member to this womans incompetence and lack of standards and the people she supports. Why do you care if she is a good person or not? What experiance do you have to speak up? Also she doesnt work on the shows alone Dingus. She has a crew of a entire NETWORK to help her. And apparently enough free time to lead hate campaigns

[@rbfloat]

I think that's another issue: she doesn't callout this bad behavior.

[@mrbeastfan8079]

@@BlooftubeBloof and a lot of the toxcicty is dirrected at her so that's something she can't control

[@DaviRed_]

In my opinion, the real problem with vivziepop is that... She's human. Yes, it's true that she responds too much at criticism, but at the same time, she's a public figure that receives opinion about her persona and show all the time. I mean, if you were in a situation where you received every day critics about your work, wouldn't you get at least a little defensive?

[@Litterbox9000]

Yeah except she doesn't accept any criticism whatsoever considering anything. Gets told that reposting works from a pro-war russian is messed up - she blocks people Gets told it's messed up to use symbols from private religions for the aesthetics - she just blocks people Gets told that hiring someone who has an open fetish to sexual assault to work on scenes with depictions of sa - she flees to another app and just blocks people again

[@DaviRed_]

@@Litterbox9000 yeah, responding bad to criticism is what makes her human. It's normal to get on defensive when you have so many people criticize you and your work, especially when it's a work you've put ten so munch work on it. And I already know what you're going to say, no I'm not justifying her, I just understand that she's under a lot of pressure.

[@Notyouraveragename]

​@@Litterbox9000 She's basically a white woman twitter problems person, who found success, had her college paid for, and then her biggest modern problems in life is being "oppressed" that her depictions glorifying rape as a excuse plot made her own trans fan who've been through sexual assault point out criticisms she is hyper sensitive for. Yet for all the people asking to give her a "break", she's also doxed Scott, the makers of Fnaf. Why should she complain about being treated 1/10th of the way she treats others? Yeah, she animates well, but she's just a nasty person who can't control the way she says things, thrives in drama, loves to ruin life, and plays the victim card when im sure that if she wasn't complaining how bad her air conditioned, parent's paid life was, she'd end up just another 1 of the millions of people on the dead end streets with no job, no future, no manager to care for her, crying on the streets and sheets in a dead end future. Sure we could go the "Vivzie is such a great person! I really remembered the part i grew up with them where they were fun, not toxic, everyone looked to their stuff and had fun, i loved timber, and i loved watching and waiting for her character", but you know people also move on and life has plenty of people pointing out 'equal treatment' for someone there for them, someone too busy with life to care. And another person pissing over their house and complaining about 'unequal treatment' while enjoying preferential treatment until they got written out of wills. Twitter acts as if you should have the same benefits for all the same consequences. Sure, you can't pick the consequences, but you pick the actions people take to live every day. There's plenty of stories where people gave a attention hog a chance and they spread false lies, gossip, ended up with job job career. Backstabbing at work, and surprise surprise when you treat people as disposible, people previously willing to put in a good word take it away after being called degenerates. People can put up with silence, they can put up with being busy with life. But calling your audience a attention seeking tumor that needs to feed her to live in a temporary ivory palace is shit and everyone knows it.

[@dollzo]

​@@DaviRed_yeah but humans are supposed to learn from mistakes and she still hasn't learnt how to take criticism

[@p.m.e.7311]

Vivziepop drama is like an episodic show. There is something new every week and no one talks about the last weeks drama

[@D_YellowMadness]

So it's like Apology Tour.

[@chocotoasties2671]

You forgot the controversy of her using Voodoo symbols as "Satanic Magic" which is culturally disrespectful. Lots of Caribbean folks spoke out about it due to that association (the association between Black paganism and Satanic worship) is dangerous due to the history of violence against Black pagans. Those critiques have largely been ignored.

[@HYPERxSONICxFANx2012]

when did she do this?

[@Eevee860]

Voodoo is evil fake magic, why would anyone be upset that two bad things are being compared?

[@billciphergirl6049]

​@@HYPERxSONICxFANx2012With Alastor in the Hazbin Hotel pilot.

[@chocotoasties2671]

@@HYPERxSONICxFANx2012 The pilot of Hazbin Hotel

[@fortnitefanningfunnymomets7613]

thats what we’re going after people about now? really?

[@addison_v_ertisement1678]

The first one... she literally tagged it as zoo. I don't see how you can look at what the creator themselves tagged as zoo, and say that it isn't zoo.

[@Birdyboys]

I noticed she tends to lie a lot in her apologies. Like when she insisted that she liked Blaire white because “she was scared and wanted to hear different sides” and not because she’s an anti feminist and she’s made comics defending cat calling

[@mageofdoomsie1598]

While noting that many workers have come out to say that their working environment wasn't toxic or unhealthy, many have also said that they CHOSE their own schedules and work hours. If this is true, then anyone who was overwhelmed was only so because they chose those schedules. Basically a "I can work from a-z times" and whoever is the lead on your position confirms it. If your schedule changed, then that's something that needs to be brought up to your supervisor, not just grin and bear it just to hold onto it as ammo for someone you decided to work for. I'd have to find that tweet thread again just to cite the source so bear with me.

[@merakkin]

8:19 god can we stop spreading misinformation? Pro-shipping doesn't mean you're okay with every ship it means that you will not harass someone over what they do on the internet just because it makes you unconfortable. It was *never* about shipping problematic things

[@Birdyboys]

That’s literally what it means, proshippers changed it to “anti harassment” once people felt uncomfortable with the meaning. Proshippers harass people a LOT, oranges himself makes a joke about it.

[@superemoboi2050]

@@Birdyboys That's not true. Proship has always meant being anti-harassment. It's only "changed" because people keep spreading misinformation.

[@Birdyboys]

@@superemoboi2050 I was there when the term was coined. It’s what it’s always meant, hence “pro shipping”. If it didn’t mean that, then I wouldn’t see people who don’t identify as proshippers immediately be labeled as antis simply for not agreeing with their ships, like what happened with Sarah Z.

[@MadameSomnambule]

@@Birdyboys I can confirm this as an ex-proshipper, it literally meant "I support all ships even ones I don't like or find problematic", and that's what it meant from the start. Whenever I see people try and deny that and imply proship means something else entirely, it makes me think they're trying to cover for the problematic people who identify by that same term. Sure, supporting those kinds of ships doesn't always mean that that proshipper is an actual p3do, as some people have been gr00med into supporting those kinds of ships at a young age (like I was via fandom, even as a lurker), but there's a reason why "antis" tend to get that impression from proshippers.

[@silverdrag0n_]

​@@Birdyboys i have literally never seen a proshipper harass anyone. i see them regularly clown on antis with bad takes, but that's not harassment. proship has many definitions, which can all coexist, and i think the definition you are confusing "being okay with every ship" with is "ship and let ship". while it may seem like they mean essentially the same thing, "ship and let ship" is more in line with "i don't care what you ship, you do you" which, yes, is just another way of saying you aren't gonna harass someone over what they ship. the key here is that not caring =/= endorsement. just because you don't speak out against something doesn't mean you endorse it. that just seems like common sense to me.

[@Talik13]

As a V-pop fan, I thought this was a good examination of her behavior. It just feels like everyone wants to be “right” so the moment someone does something they deem “wrong” then they’re labeled a terrible person. It doesn’t excuse bad behavior, but like, it feels kinda blown out of proportion.

[@doubleh333lix]

i don’t like either of her shows nor really any of her content in general, but i’ve been aware of her for a long time and i really respect that she was able to become so successful with her projects. just because her content isn’t my style doesn’t mean i dislike her.

[@benjo2704]

I really appreciate your balanced take on the matter. It’s refreshing to see someone who isn’t aggressively biased for or against Vivzie and acknowledges her blatant flaws while keeping things unbiased. Really great video.

[@One-of-many-names]

I get this notification the second I looked over at my autographed print from Charlie's voice actor like damn I'm so happy for Hazbin hotel to fully come out. The timing is something so now I have to make sure me liking Hazbin hotel and Hellva boss isn't supporting a horrible person.

[@mageofdoomsie1598]

IMO, Vivzie is someone who is learning to run a company. She has people to pay and a company to run, and that causes a lot of stress and hard decisions to make. She can't be your best friend, and she has to keep the business going at the end of the day. If that means being a little strict or harsh with people, so be it, many other leaders in the industry are the exact same. The many industry standards she follows for both HB and HH are standards for a reason. HH is now under A24's control, so however that turns out is A24'a business, Vivzie I think only has control of certain creative directions. She's made mistakes before, but she's acknowledged them and tried her best to move on from it and grow as a person. Unfortunately, many people try to hold things over people for as long as they're around. She's still young when comparing her to other animation company founders, and Spindlehorse is also a relatively very new company that needs to grow it's roots.

[@ma.2089]

Vivzie isn’t a horrible person. She’s made mistakes, and she’s likely made bad ones too. But she’s not evil by any means. Cuz it’s impossible to tell what is overblown and what isn’t, I’d say to separate the art from the artist and try to take anything on Twitter with a grain of salt. Best not to even be on Twitter cuz they like to ruin things

[@billciphergirl6049]

So, what's your take?

[@Diamond1234]

You know it's really annoying that people expect people to be perfect, an impossible standard. There's always something you don't like about someone because we're all human. Now if that person did something actually awful to someone else directly and maliciously and never changed from that or even felt any regret, that'd be different but social media sites seriously are something I'll never look at on purpose because it's so awful the standards people have for people that happened to get into the spotlight. 4:25 And I see you agree with me, ayo~ Now something I think is definitely true before watching the video fully is that she really needs to get off Twitter and stop responding to people coming at her with bad faith (purposefully starting something) and just do what she does. *EDIT:* 10:24 Oh boy, it's painful to see one person accusing Vivziepop of being the worst to work with and then a bunch of people defending her by making her look like the best, all with no proof therefore none of them are to be trusted, and as you've said, they are being paid by her, of course they'd say that. Aaaah, Twitter, he says, she says. I want proof, people, or I won't believe any of you! 15:44 AYO WE GOT SOME PROOF, FINALLY, ACTUAL SCREENSHOTS AAA- Ah, not giving Ken credit for referencing an image for a pose is indeed pretty bad like just give a little nod to them helping you out. However, stealing ideas is kinda hard to prove because everyone's ideas kinda comes from everyone else since we all read something we think is cool and maybe use it in our ideas. Basically, it's both really hard to prove it only came from you because, like any idea can come from many other people. Or reading a fanfiction. No idea comes from a vacuum and all that. Ah, you agree with me, nice! 19:35 Ah, you are absolutely right, texts can have any kind of emotion you can think of and can be very easy to misinterpret because you don't hear the voice of the person typing it. Good catch and good point~ 20:19 Whoa whoa whoa, Vivzie calling Ken an abuser and a monster over this is definitely wrong since above it sounds like it's a misunderstanding and a large amount of paranoia, not actual cruelty! AAA- Oooh interesting, BOTH of them are paranoid, fair fair. It's sad their mutual paranoia about each other have permanently ruined each other's opinions of each other. Dang. 22:52 Ayo exactly! Thanks for making this video Definitely Bored Oranges, it was a fun watch and it was nice seeing the controversies without...having to be on Twitter. :'D

[@Birdyboys]

To be fair on the Blaire white thing: people DID tell her about Blaire white making blackface jokes and provided a screenshot and Vivzie dismissed them, which is why I think folks were mad about her drawing fanart for her.

[@sailorstar3148]

Yes, but it’s already been like a few years. she has already apologized for it I don’t think this is worth getting upset about anymore.(letting you know that this is coming from a black person.)

[@Birdyboys]

@@sailorstar3148 I’m also black and I absolutely agree. I just don’t think it’s true to claim that Vivzie wasn’t aware of Blaire’s anti black behaviors. She completely was, but still supported her for a long time because she was “honest”

[@sailorstar3148]

@@Birdyboys Not sure if she supports her anymore but you’re ok to feel how you feel

[@boxylemons7961]

Most people on the internet back in the time she made it were big into the "anti-sjw" community as well, so it wouldn't be too out of the norm to make fanart of right wing political commentators (no matter how unethical they were as people). It's not something that's really to condemnable since that stuff has mostly fallen out of favor in recent years, but it goes to show how anyone can be lead into believing certain bullshit.

[@sailorstar3148]

@@boxylemons7961 Wow I never really thought it said that way

[@quilaviper]

I think one thing that's pretty important to note is that she has actively discouraged her workers from broadening their workloads to anything beyond Helluva or Hazbin. I've seen lots of screenshots provided particularly in regards to Lackadaisy and how she legit tried to tell people from that production not to hire from her team of animators, as well as being whiny about those who did end up working on Lackadaisy. And of course, while nobody can really confirm her intention behind the sudden 5k donation to Lackadaisy after a lot of that weirdness came to light, I do kinda agree with the people that find that timing incredibly suspicious and seeming like attempted deflection of criticism on the topic. I do also remember screenshots of her being needlessly rude when discussing other indie projects, but I doubt I'd be able to find the posts going over those screenshots again because it is a literal dumpster fire trying to re-find anything Vivzie-related, especially nowadays, rip. The Lackadaisy-related stuff is still relatively easy to find, though.

[@yulee3266]

thats unfortunate

[@bored_person]

That is not correct.

[@quilaviper]

@@bored_person Which part? Because all the "her actively discouraging workers from doing anything not HH/HB-related and being butthurt when they do" is definitely correct, the suspicions about her motivations behind the 5k donation is in no way provable of course so I can't say whether that's correct or not since it honestly just comes down to guessing, and the last bit about badmouthing other indie projects is again, not really provable since I wouldn't be able to find the posts again, so I can understand why you'd see that part as not correct tbh

[@bored_person]

@@quilaviper the first part is probably false because you can find the names of the crew in the credits of other projects. Just because one person says it's true doesn't mean that it is. What's actually true is that one time she asked other people not to hire her staff out from under her because their workload was heavy and they wouldn't be able to complete their work on time if they took on other jobs. But it was a one-time thing, and the way you're wording it makes it sound like it's a thing she regularly does even though It's demonstrably false. For the donation, it was done on behalf of spindlehorse, and they all approved of it. It wasn't something she just did all by herself. And for the final part, she has actively promoted other indie projects on social media, which makes the claim about her bad-mouthing other indie projects questionable at best.

[@quilaviper]

​@@bored_person I'm not sure what you mean about that first part? Like, yes, some of them still worked on the projects despite Vivzie not wanting them to, I wasn't saying that they were all 100% banned from it or whatever, just that Vivzie did try to get people not to hire them and being kinda bitter when that didn't work on everybody, which there is much screenshot proof of. (There did seem to be one person that was specifically denied a job because they worked with Viv, but the kind of screenshot they had looked easily fakeable, so I wouldn't like, rely on that one for proof myself, tbh) Anyways, what my point is is that it's really shitty to be doing that to your crew in the first place, trying to actively deny them other animation jobs like that. It's really unprofessional, no matter the circumstance. If she had like, talked to her team personally and asked if they'd be willing not to branch out during that time so they could get the other stuff done first, that'd be a whole other story, but the way she ended up going about it was just all-around bad. Unless there were actual contracts or something signed saying they couldn't work on other things while being with her shows, that'd be one thing, but there /weren't/, so she doesn't really have a right to be trying that shit with her staff (trying to ruin their chances with other projects, i mean) Viv is the founder of Spindlehorse, so the donation being done on behalf of Spindlehorse and they all approved it isn't really saying much since the initial decision would still be Viv's in the first place. (But again, nobody can really say why the donation was made or if it had to do with any drama at all, I just kinda agree with finding the timing a bit suspicious. But ofc, suspicion does not equal fact, so I ain't gonna like, pretend I KNOW there was malicious intent or smth, that would be silly lol) I mean, there have been TONS of situations of people supporting something/someone publicly but then turning around and shit-talking them with ease, so the fact of her promoting indie projects isn't really a defense, imo? What somebody does for good PR doesn't say much about them overall, but agree to disagree on that, ig

[@heather769969]

ngl i don't like vivzie bc something about her just doesn't sit right with me, but both sides of her fandom and hatedom are fucking annoying; the fans defend her even when she's shitty, and the haters overblow everything

[@AceSpadespoken]

Same, honestly.

[@SofieLoaf]

Same :/

[@topcat59]

Honestly the hate she receives is borderline ridiculous, since a lot of people on X makes excuses after excuses just to hate the show and the people working on it and it’s even worse when vivziepop constantly reply to these people, giving the people that hate the show more reason to continue their behavior.🐱

[@HYPERxSONICxFANx2012]

*twitter

[@tVt2000]

@@HYPERxSONICxFANx2012nah it’s X now

[@HYPERxSONICxFANx2012]

@@tVt2000 i don't care. still calling it twitter. x is stupid

[@DemonDiscoJockey]

​@@tVt2000I will not bend to the will of Elon

[@tVt2000]

@@DemonDiscoJockey you’re not even the same dude

[@dyain590]

i stopped liking viv after she vague posted about 2 youtubers who had made a very respectful video criticizing helluva boss, but it ways very obvious who she posted about and it lead to the youtubers getting harrased in the comments. the tweet is still up and was uploaded the 21 of march if anyone wants to look, its about the video made a few days before by diregentleman. most of the hate comments under the video were deleted to my knowladge though

[@carpetburns4007]

thats bs what the hell... she could have just not said anything it would be so easy lol

[@dyain590]

@carpetburns4007 she was so mean and defensive about it, too. "im not vague posting. im just saying writers need to support each other" after making the most obvious vague post about the most respectful video I've seen talking about Helluva Boss. they explain in depth why they had those (valid) opinions on the show and talk about different ways to improve. I think she just got defensive that well-informed people called her out on her questionable writing skills.

[@carpetburns4007]

@@dyain590 those guys have a pretty small following too which makes it worse like 😭 it's understandable to struggle with criticism but the one thing you shouldn't do is respond, if you have as big of a following as she does at least. but that's something that she doesn't know how to do apparently

[@dyain590]

@carpetburns4007 EXACTLY, I have the same opinion on her as I do dream: most of their dramas are overblown or fabrications, but they still both set toxic expectations for how their fans/communities should react to real criticism.

[@carpetburns4007]

@@dyain590 YES i view it the exact same

[@inciniumz4671]

Honestly, the Scott Cawthon incident sums up it up pretty well. She's not a good person nor is she scum. She's just kind of the person you probably wouldn't want to hang around with, but most people only either see all the good or all the bad and either defend her relentlessly like she's the second coming of Jesus or hate her like she's the reincarnation of the German H-man. Cult of personality behavior, it's everywhere on the internet and I hate it.

[@BananaTrooper3650]

What's wrong with Scott Cawthon?

[@skullguy4863]

Wait what's wrong with Scott

[@arandompersoncon]

@@BananaTrooper3650 A while back, people found out Scott Cawthon had made large donations to Republican politicians who were anti-LGBTQ. So people got mad at Scott for supporting those individuals.

[@littlemoth4956]

@@BananaTrooper3650 Conservative, basically. Whether that's a good or bad thing is up to your personal beliefs.

[@littlemoth4956]

@@skullguy4863 See above.

[@madamii]

From what I know on Twitter, proship just means that you don't care about what other people ship. Yeah there are weirdos that ship minors with adults who also like to identify as proshippers, but the word itself just means, "You can ship whatever you want and I won't bother you for it." The AO3 mentality.

[@GumSkyloard]

Yeah, but most proshippers tend to prefer pedophilic or questionable shipping.

[@theabsolutechadlad5457]

@@GumSkyloard Gonna need some evidence for that claim there, chief.

[@aceofspadesssss]

@@theabsolutechadlad5457 It's actually not that hard to find evidence, all you have to do is find a proshipper account who's in the Spooky Month fandom and your set.

[@GumSkyloard]

@@theabsolutechadlad5457 Look online. It's impossible to find proshippers who don't ship pedophilic or questionable ships.

[@crystalwhisp]

@@aceofspadesssss God not junospy

[@bluestar4408]

She isn’t the best at handling criticism…But a lot of the hatedom act like Viv killed and ate their family infront of them and then set their entire home ablaze.

[@Notyouraveragename]

That's mild for twitter tbh XD

[@trishacastover1354]

I wonder why people place content creators and the like on such high standards, and if the standards aren't met, then they're a terrible, toxic, person who should be canceled and banned from the internet. Content creators are human and a part of being human is making mistakes and poorly made choices. We've all done this and do we think we're terrible, toxic, people? No. Do we think we should've handled it differently? Yes. We should stop placing famous people on such high standards and recognize them as human. And no, I am not excusing them from the terrible things that they do or did, but, I will focus on how they react to such things. Do they apologize? Is the apology genuine? Do they admit that they're in the wrong? Do they feel any amount of guilt for it? Do they make an attempt of setting things right? Did they try to explain themselves? It's important to understand that humans, that we are all flawed in a way, and it's what we do with those flaws that truly matter.

[@benzene_sandwich]

not reading allat, vivzie shill

[@MEGaagv]

I love helluva boss and hazbin hotel, but I don't support her nor do I know her, but I do respect as another human being.

[@LLRTgame]

Happy Birthday! you made a great video and its so refeshing to see someone talk about this topic objectively, beacuse Twitter and also youtube are just hellholes when it comes to vivziepop and her shows

[@finalhaunts]

If i’m being real I do feel like the overwhelming hate for Vivziepop is at least partially fueled by misogyny. Like I have literally never seen a content creator get THIS much hate for THIS long to the point of there being an entire fanbase dedicated to hating her and her work. You literally cannot go through the tags abt her work without being bombarded with post after post where people are hatewatching her stuff just to nitpick. The closest thing to this i can remember happening was the way everyone treated Rebecca Sugar (it was bad y’all they were acting like the characters being off model was a genuine moral offense) But anyways, I specifically bring up misogyny because it seems like a lot of people forget Brandon Rogers is the co-writer for Helluva Boss, and he’s done some INCREDIBLY offensive skits over the years. Like, some genuinely awful stuff played out for laughs. And yet… You never really hear him brought up whenever Helluva is mentioned? He’s never been the center of any controversy regarding the show besides maybe when he said a slur in the pilot. It’s always “ohhhh look at what Viv did NOW!!!”. But Brandon is still able to sleep soundly at night bc nobody’s gone after him yet I’m not really a big fan of Viv herself, I think she’s incredibly immature and needs to get off twitter. As for her work, I like it but it’s definitely got a lot of issues from inconsistent worldbuilding and characterization. But the fact that people are constantly watching her every move waiting for her to fuck up again is… Kind of insane. I will admit a few years back I was a part of the senseless hate crowd, but now that I’m nearly an adult I’m looking back on all this shit and all I can think is “this is stupid as fuck”

[@Shalltear773]

it might not be misogyny as much as it could be her apparent inability to just leave the drama alone, which is a part of what keeps fanning the flames.

[@finalhaunts]

@@Shalltear773 good point

[@YodaOnABender]

Used to like Vivziepop, but her own fanbase drove me away. They’re so toxic and overprotective that they’ll probably doxx you for saying “helluva boss is mid”

[@chrizymix]

@@DylanSaylor-kv5nngo outside

[@GalaxyDuhh]

@@DylanSaylor-kv5nnbro has been here for an hour 💀

[@YodaOnABender]

@@GalaxyDuhh he’s made 35 comments already 💀 bro has no life

[@chrizymix]

@@YodaOnABenderfr fr 💀

[@YodaOnABender]

@@chrizymix people like him are literally the people I’m talking about in my original comment. Self fulfilling prophecy

[@_The13thDoctor_]

I used to defend Viz but after she was bullying someone on Twitter for AI voices it all clicked that there was something not right. No person right in the head set their fans on someone for something so minor (a fan project with a 2 subscriber channel) and attacks them over it until they are forced to remove it and remake it with voices. Like wtf?! She complains about all the drama but sits on Twitter for hours either starting it or responding to every hate comment for hours.

[@artistanthony1007]

That is exactly why I can't respect her as a person, among other things.

[@kadan2889]

Happy birthday :D These controversies are so 180 of each other in how seriously it needs to be taken that it's actually giving me whiplash.

[@FHBStudio]

I just thought it was soo funny they made so many characters in hell part of the rainbow crowd, and how all of the identity stuff is becoming a bigger part of it. Like, what did she mean by this?

[@WillowTitov]

Guess you could say she's a _Helluva Boss_

[@MarinCdoVal]

FINALLY something that doesn't treat viv as the worst human being in existance or a saint who has never wronged anyone ever! this whole mess was starting to make me dizzy and it's so hard to know what's real and what isn't in these cases. thanks, dude!

[@Trowelhands]

All my friends love the cartoons and are obsessed with the characters, and I just don't get it. They never shut up about their voice actors being hot and always change the subject back to HH/HB. Starting to see this becoming a bit of a problem.

[@valverios]

wat

[@gigachad3925]

I think that's a different issue than what's discussed in the video. At the end of the day, your friends can talk to each other about whatever they want. You're not obligated to spend time with them if they bore you.

[@Acesspaded]

Okay so not really a problem. Your friends just find something very interesting to them and want to engage in it-so? It just happens that you don’t share the same feelings in the shows. So? If you don’t like it when they talk about it around you, tell them. Instead of trying to make it an issue when it really isn’t.

[@ma.2089]

If your friends are having fun talking to each other about their interests, something you don’t get, I don’t see how this is a problem. You guys just like different things. You can’t force them to not like something, or talk about other things, just like they can’t get you to like something you’re not super into. This is less an issue with Viv or her work, and more of an issue with your friend group. Brush off those problem solving social skills and talk it out with your friends lol

[@tVt2000]

Leave the friends behind.

[@MLPDethDealr32]

MLP Got me out of Depression and into doing 3d animation. And ive never been to school for it. So there's that.

[@kieravermeal9127]

Random fun fact: I share a birthday with Vivziepop. In fact, I'm exactly 10 years younger than her.

[@sailorstar3148]

Wow, that’s awesome

[@theguytoendallguys25]

Thank fucking god a neutral take on Vivzie’s many controversy, also HAPPY BIRTHDAY DUDE

[@eesedesesesrdtsuperjoshuab7907]

This was actually a refreshing video, just from seeing random out of context videos and thumbnails made me think she was a terrible person and I kind of felt bad watching HB but now I see it’s nowhere as bad as I thought

[@The-Black-Death]

Right, because apparently her supporting the Fnaf creator being doxed and having his family harassed is perfectly fine I guess, just because he's a republican makes it totally justified...

[@aliceangel262]

Tbh I feel like all the discourse that happens when you become your friend groups boss is very natural, I’ve seen it happen to my own friend group just a few weeks ago when two people became managers and instantly started to casts us out and be super rude only spending time with one another, we’re all trying to fix it and hang out more but I think if you’re not in the right space to be a boss especially over your friends then don’t please.

[@rarity-bo8pk]

Proship does not mean you agree with every ship wtf. It means that you don't give a crap enough to harrass someone over fictional characters! Pro ship isn't always age gap and nsfw. It includes crack ships that are just for fun.

[@_yourlocalartist]

This mans voice is so nice, I use his videos as bg noises while crocheting, one thing I like about commentary KZbinrs is that you can just listen and not pay any attention to the screen

[@austinreed5805]

Happy Birthday, Oranges!!! 🍊🍊 Also, I have been a fan of Vivziepop ever since the pilot came out for Hazbin and it’s been quite an…interesting experience. I’ve barely even looked at Twitter (Thank God) but even I know about the situation. Basically, the amount of toxic drama that has come from that Twitter cesspool is indescribable. From the mostly falsified or over-exaggerated claims on Viv to the hundreds of differing takes on both shows clashing with one another, it is a pain for everyone trying to support both projects. From the show delays, furries’ reaction to first seeing Loona, the Episode 8 fiasco, and the other issues that I’ll not name so that you won’t have your brain drilled out from the long ass list, we’ve been through a lot, especially for those (like myself) who have no business with any of the drama and simply just want to enjoy the shows that come out. I will say this about Viv, she isn’t an angel nor a demon; she’s human. She makes mistakes, especially within her pointless Twitter threads and reactions to others’ opinions on her show, and it’s still up to her to claim responsibility for her actions. That being said, I do acknowledge that she is in a ROUGH position with having to juggle two shows around while also having to deal with dozens of people trying to dig any bit of dirt on her like some High-School Drama bullshit. Anyways, I feel like your video was a good example of non-bias towards the situation. Addressing everything that’s important while always taking everything without evidence with a grain of salt. I thought this video was good, and I’m sure this was also a bit of pain in the ass to make with the lack of evidence to support anything. Even still, you did well. Keep up the great work, Oranges!

[@shadowdroid776]

So... she's a normal person that has flaws??? Why are people so upset at this? Yeah, she's done stupid shit, but so does everyone else in the world. The shit people say she did and the rumors they spread are far worse than what she's actually done. The thing that actually bothers me the most about this is that she used someone's fanart as a reference for a pose in the final design... And somhow that is stealing. Like, people do that shit already all the time when drawing. It's called "using a reference"! I have HUNDREDS of references for teeth or clothing or specific gestures I can't figure out, some are other artworks and some are real life photos. Does that make me a thief? No, it makes me an artist who had no idea how to draw a person jumping so I found a really good reference in the exact angle I was trying to envision.

[@crayonzii]

Ur right , people do mistakes all the time, but if a person has a huge following of course they’re gonna be talked about! That always happens with popular people lol, not just with artists.

[@reesearmstrong912]

These controversies are getting old like seriously it’s impossible to satisfy everyone

[@KeeeKeeedemon]

As a Vivziepop fan myself, Its exhausting seeing the same shit, everyday without end.

[@ToxicWaffle183]

I feel like a lot of internet drama can be summed up as “someone cares way too much about shit no one gives a shit about”

[@alexdavis3848]

I just want to add that proshippers aren't people that say shipping kids with adults is ok, but moreso it's none of their business what people ship. Other ships, such as ones that are angsty, MLM, wlw, cross universe and series ships, these are also ships that get so much bs. Also shipping between two villains in media. Another ship dynamic that would get people threats and shit from seemingly the majority. Basically, any ship that isn't the most picturesque healthy g rated Disney like ship is a ship that proshippers believe should be allowed, because they believe shipping shouldnt be tied down to one specific dynamic and relationship type. Hell, according to antishippers, my ships are problematic and I should be cancelled because one half despises the other and said a few mean words or because they didn't get along at one point.

[@mmakoshark]

u are not normal. anti shippers are not normal. all of you need help.

[@alexdavis3848]

@@theautumnwind8437 usually threats I see is threatening murder. O wait you meant with the ships. It varies from characters just have a bratty personality/bad at showing their true feelings to mild abuse. All have gotten bad death threats from antis. Idk maybe I'm just old, but I would be considered a proshipper to many because I believe people should be able to ship whatever tf they want as long as it's not illegal.

[@lvna6669]

Vivzie’s not problematic. People are just always finding reasons to get mad.

[@thiccyboi-6495]

Viv has one big flaw though, and that’s that she’s constantly responding to drama with massive rants, rather than choosing to distance herself from it. And all that does is add more fuel to the fire.

[@lvna6669]

@@thiccyboi-6495 I agree with that. If I were Viv, I’d just don’t say anything about all that bullshit and move on because really that’s just giving a bunch of hot head dummies what they want making it look more worse.

[@spacetofu5306]

​@@thiccyboi-6495and digging herself a bigger hole than already she was in

[@eggmceggen]

Thank you for making this! It's so hard to find actually info on this topic so thank you for putting all of it in a nice video :D Also happy birthday!

[@ThatOneGingerFromSP]

Small note, proshipper does not mean youre okay with all ships. I am one and there are many things in fiction that i personally do not like. Being proship means that what you like in fiction does not effect your morality. For example, liking incest ships doesn't mean you wanna bang your sibling.

[@ShinePaw101]

It literally started as a movement saying you wouldn’t tell people to kts over fiction or harass them over fiction. It’s really disappointing to see Oranges not do his research here. I have a study showing how the movement started if anyone is curious.

[@ThatOneGingerFromSP]

@@ShinePaw101 exactly

[@1808cowboy]

I dont understand because firt why would you even like incestuous ships, whats the appeal if not fantasizing abt an incestuous relationship

[@ThatOneGingerFromSP]

@@1808cowboy some people like the taboo nature of it, some people just do it because they like the dynamic

[@silverdrag0n_]

​@@1808cowboy proshippers who are survivors of incest may use incest in fiction to process their trauma, because it's in a controlled environment where no one is being harmed. it's catharsis, ya feel?

[@Jack_Wolfe]

23:00 it also when ever something becomes popular EVERYONE feels they have the right to weigh in, even the weird rage trolls, who bate popular creators into rage quitting through abuse and harassment, by either straight up lying to the community, or finding some way to manipulate somethings context into something else. This happens with everything that gains any sort of popularity. You get that strange swath of aggressive trolls who just don't like seeing anything succeed. (its probally not the same groups for everything, but everything has its own aggro group of jackasses having a mini war with other people over anything)

[@Jack_Wolfe]

for people falling into that space where they become targets, to these bullies, for the first time, tend to get sucked in the most with trying to defend themselves, a good example of this escalating, is when someone asks a question and you answer, but thousands of people want to ask the same thing but either refuse to hear the last answer to the same question or never heard it, now they have to answer 100 of the same question with the same answer, Brains don't like extended repetition stress levels increase, and by the 20th answer to the same question they're ready to just start blowing people off to reduce stress, then if they try to defend themselves against the wave of illogical stubborn people who will never see reason, because they also want to defend their ground. If you get enough of these responses, you learn to filter them it just takes a while.

[@Milkshake-Bakes]

Every time i see "vivziepop" and "controversy" in the same video title, a month is taken off my lifespan. I'll probably live to.. 2026?

[@camharkness]

I gotta be honest, i seriously forgot these shows existed lmao

[@Birdyboys]

I’m surprised you didn’t mention how other animators came forward and Erin Frost herself provided evidence of being told by other indie creators that she couldn’t be hired because Vivziepop tells them not to hire people from her team. This felt like surface level reporting. I do however agree a lot of the discourse around Viv has been heavily overblown. But it’s not really hard to see why someone who knowingly enables a toxic fanbase has former animators who may be too scared to come forward about their abuse (look at what happens whenever someone mentions that they were wronged)

[@mirelle_mojena]

i dont think i;ve seen the evidence that erin frost released before. can you link that to me plz?

[@isabellacleary2692]

Wasn't that because of workload issues? I'm pretty sure someone made a tweet about it but the whole reason she was asking others to not hire her team was to avoid some of the animators taking too many jobs and getting burned out from it all. I will admit it was a bit of a shit thing to do, but the intentions weren't malicious. I agree with your fanbase statement because everything really does feel a bit wild in the community (especially on twitter). everything feels like a two-sided argument where people make a few overblown claims that get responded with wild fans fighting back a bit too much. No- not a bit, a LOT.

[@Birdyboys]

@@mirelle_mojena tried to send a link but forgot KZbin doesn’t like that. Unfortunately the original tweet showing evidence was taken down after Vivzie threatened to sue

[@Birdyboys]

@@isabellacleary2692 yes and no. She didn’t want her animators overworked but it was because she was already working them to the bone and apparently wasn’t really giving them enough payment, hence the huge turn over rate. It’s less about concerns for their safety and more like “I’m literally squeezing you guys dry, how can you think of working for other people.” Also, Vivzie has no right to tell people not to hire animators just because she personally doesn’t want them overworked, that’s incredibly controlling

[@mirelle_mojena]

@@Birdyboys damn that sucks. i wonder if there's a wayback machine link to this. also this reminded me of the time where viv tried to sue a former helluva employee for "revealing info that was apart of the nda" even tho said employee never revealed info that was apart of the nda lel.

[@malcire]

My biggest issue was over her supposedly asking other creators not to hire here workers. Which I believe she admitted to worrying about them burning out. Problem is that they are contractors, so, not her place to interfere with them finding other work.

[@Sandyoo6026]

I’m an artist and I just want to watch the shows without having to deal with being called a racist or a homophobe or a satanist😂 I feel like the hate for her is mostly nonsense an idc ab it. I just enjoy the show. I shouldn’t have to endure hate for that🤷🏽‍♀️

[@lost_pmc_3927]

My only time I can think of when she did something stupid was the Scott cothen tweet but that is most it, but she does have a problem with taking the bait and stating arguments when she should have just ignored it

[@lost_pmc_3927]

Even then that was like 2-3 years ago? so no point to get mad about it now

[@chihex8966]

Bro, I've never seen you on my recommended page before, but your voice is very nice to listen to.

[@tylere.8436]

All Vivzie has to do is stop using Twitter, then it's fine.

[@ouji8478]

Just pointing out that something can be traced and not line up exactly. I got a piece traced by someone a few years back and they resized some things and flipped it so it wouldn’t be exactly the same shape. Possibly a nitpick, but it irked me lmao Happy Birthday, too, Oranges!

[@sailorstar3148]

I mean, it could’ve been traced or Viv could’ve used their drawing as a reference and she got the pose down correctly. I am say that because they are artists that do draw the exact pose with no need for tracing.

[@Skycrusher]

@@sailorstar3148 map

[@DouglasMeloche]

people throwing accusations of illegal activities seem to be completely ignorant of "libel, defamation, slander, and harassment" ...actual crimes

[@m0istur]

As someone who isnt even part of these fandoms I only watched helluva boss and before that a few other videos of viv. Never heard about the bullshit goin on i think until I finished watching the series

[@Arab_Rayman_and_TF2_Enjoyer]

3:58 "Hi I want to hit 50k-" that line didn't age well

[@UnstableMelanieFan]

STOP😭🙏

[@bigj1905]

Welcome to the amazing drama of the art-animation industry when it comes to ownership of characters: “I came up with the idea and outline, so it’s my creation!” “I drew the first sketch, so it’s my creation!” “I drew the product actually used, so it’s my creation!” “I was the one who actually animated it, so it’s my creation!”

[@Notyouraveragename]

The Ownership of the Ships of Thesus XD. o Lumber chopper: "I made it!" o Carver: "I made it!" o Architect: "I made it!" o Seller: "I made it!" o Buyer: "I made it!: o Repair crew: "I remade it!" o Museum with 4 spare copies of parts: "Your honor, i'd like to testify to murder. It was me, in the pool, with a rusty spork"

[@smagpie]

You could say...She's a helluva boss.

[@crimzunn]

bro I have been WAITING for this video to drop ong

[@chrizymix]

@@DylanSaylor-kv5nnyou just stop

[@Nutmeg-]

Tbh she herself was part of cancel culture at some point. This is the nature of (art) twitter: they will eat their own the moment people step out of line or draw something "the wrong way". Horrible community, but well, you harvest what you sow, Viv. You cultivated this kind of audience and now you have to deal with them.

[@eggzuki]

sometimes dinner is a 30 minute old bored oranges vivziepop video

[@devilheartcandy]

“Eventhomostofthefandomarepreteens” HELP I WATCHED THIS SHOW WHEN I WAS 14

[@Randomdude______]

I wish you happy birthday 🎂 ❤ Orange keep doing videos bro

[@wesleydraves1281]

Here’s the thing I hate about modern culture: many people have flaws some are bad some are alright but you should still respect somebody if they made something that brings people joy Examples Walt Disney: anti semite Scott Cawthon: donated to right wing causes Stephen King: extremely leftist J.K. Rowling: Transphobic Bobby Fischer: denied the Holocaust Tom Cruise: Scientologist

[@Jarod-te2bi]

The biggest issue I see from her is she doesn’t take critique well, even if the criticism of her writing or episodes is constructive and non-bias, she doesn’t take it well, like criticizing how she writes stole us and blitz the bullying of Moxie, the lack of character development, and the female lead like Luna or Mill(the last one she overcoated for and that summer camp episode it was not funny over written. Let’s try to look for a sister should’ve been the plot.) Honestly, I still love has been hotel in hell of a boss. However, she has issues she needs to work out.

[@benzene_sandwich]

the best way to deal with online critisism (especially when youre THIS popular) is to not respond to it.