Why The Internet Hates Vivziepop

[@DefinitelyBoredOranges]

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[@alecdashark]

Yeaaa, Vivz isn't a good person honestly. But the shows she's made have helped me be less hard on myself as a person who overthinks a lot due to my ADHD. And i honestly love them for that.

[@Aural4444]

@@alecdashark Dude, you can't claim that "she's not a good person" because you don't know her personally, and you've never talked to her personally.

[@x_Artur_x]

Fu## you People who just hate Vivizpop!!! 🤬

[@honey-hs6ro]

@@Aural4444exactly so u can’t claim she’s a bad person either ?

[@FunnyCraftSheep]

nice

[@TheKillerMoth]

It's crazy how so much drama involving Vivzie would just not exist if she didn't go on rants on Twitter about criticism.

[@PersephineKore]

Unfortunately, a lot of good people and some of my favorite artists just can't help but vent on the internet, one of my favorites kind of ruined her life because she couldn't help but to try to get the trolls to see her point of view. Vivzie seems much more stable though, so I don't think her life will fall apart over some hate. I think that as Vivzie gets used to being in the spotlight, she will learn how to hold back a little.

[@VANILLAMILKISGUD]

That’s so true wait

[@Jdudec367]

@@PersephineKore If I may ask....who is the artist you are talking about?

[@thereseemstobeenanerror1219]

​​@@PersephineKore I wanna hear the back story to this comment. ( Also, some people really cannot stop themselves from treating socal media like it's their diary, what's up with that?)

[@adamk-paxlogan7330Sucks]

everyone hates criticism though,so I don't know what the big deal is when everyone hates criticism

[@topcat59]

Also I feel like Vivzie really should stop using Twitter and constantly responding to anything that’s related to the show or herself.🐱

[@strawburri420]

exactly!! all i can say is that if she takes it personally, she should (at least try) to ignore it all and/or just take a break from social media in general, since responding to EVERY SINGLE THING involving or even mentioning her or her work doesn't make things any better.

[@artistanthony1007]

She clearly knows, she just refuses to take that advice which she should, she's in her 30s, a professional manager now and was picked up by a big company, I cant respect her with this immature behavior.

[@alyssamontgomery2978]

I mean... You can probably say that about A LOT of people.

[@Yami-mugoni613]

@@artistanthony1007she does neeed a pr team but I do kinda get it since the idea of being in a time if you don’t have Twitter people use it against you

[@uef0h]

this, it’s incredibly unprofessional of her to do so and she acts like she’s doing an ask blog for her ocs it’s like GIRL pls take this srsly be ffr

[@okanimation68]

19:02 As an animator myself this is actually higher than the standard pay, also, the drawings in question are rough, it's not sketches or beautiful made drawings, just keys/rough The person who made the claim said it was cleanup but it wasn't, it was rough. Because that person isn't an animator themselves and just thought that we make whole ass full drawings 😂😅

[@DragonWolfZenno]

This. But in all fairness, this kind of information isn’t publicly available to the majority of people. And a lot of people don’t look past the first page of google when researching this sort of stuff.

[@thenerdbeast7375]

^This, even the "real" controversies are always disproved easily or are taken out of context.

[@tamarbeker1701]

Boost for the algorithm. More people need to be aware of that part

[@taki7546]

And yet people will still say that Viv doesn’t pay her animators. It‘s so ridiculous. Instead of going after the multi million dollar companies who really treat their artists like sht, they‘ll always go after the indie creators

[@HK47_115]

​@@tamarbeker1701the algorithm doesn't boost comments. Boost the video. I would love for more people to hear this person's perspective as well, but there's no guarantee they're going to see this comments when they see this video. Or that they even going to the comments at all. Maybe they listen to this video as background noise while doing the dishes then move on to the next one. Obviously people will continue to lounge in the comment section, but sometimes I feel like the perspectives in the comment section that should be seen and heard don't always get heard or seen.

[@CasualREDACTED]

I will have to say this about writing An antagonist isn't the bad guy. The antagonist is the persona against the protagonist. There have been many stories where the protagonist is the bad guy. Because the protagonist is just the person we follow in the story. They are the main character. John Hammond is Jurassic Park (novel) was a protagonist who was just a terrible terrible person and got what he deserved

[@kevintanza6968]

Death Note is a good example. And you also have sports stories.

[@CasualREDACTED]

@@kevintanza6968 or the best example anyone could ever use. The protagonist to Lolita. The book isn't putting ANYTHING he does in a good light. He is written as the bad guy as well as the author taking personal experience dealing with those types

[@kerroseir4764]

Or megamind

[@addison_v_ertisement1678]

Any Warhammer 40k book.

[@DoctorTex]

From what I recall, Mirage was set up to be the villain, a trickster from the shadows who'd fuck everything up. Then again, I haven't read that comic in years

[@YodaOnABender]

Thank you for not being another “everyone hates her because they’re all jealous of her success” or “because she’s cringe” like most people

[@lordfreerealestate8302]

I've heard this used for so many different creators, artists, authors ... it's such a preposterous assumption to make. Not everyone critical of someone is jealous.

[@He-who-wakes]

That said, she is cringe

[@pieterwillembotha6719]

in what way? t. person who has no idea what is going on @@He-who-wakes

[@rutyqutykandi1361]

I also like a good nuanced take. Some people do have criticisms that aren't jealousy or thinking she is cringe. Unfortunately I've already seen some commenters go off on others down here and try to call people out as just being jealous.

[@YodaOnABender]

@@He-who-wakes undoubtedly so yes, however, she’s done a lot more than that to get the ridicule she gets

[@The-king-of-ruins]

To be honest I don’t think Viv is a bad person but she is prideful and stubborn

[@tylerlyons1812]

Oh definitely! I love Viv, and also hsve tones of respect for her, but I really wish she'd just ignore the hate. I think it would be best for her mental health.

[@kanekikingstorm2113]

@@tylerlyons1812or just stay off the socials for a bit

[@tylerlyons1812]

​@@kanekikingstorm2113Agreed

[@YandelColon69]

Yeah all the twitter comments really haven’t helped at all

[@syafeeqahisham1740]

​@@YandelColon69yes. Especially when she posted comments that sometimes didn't help her situation sometimes.

[@ChenanaArts]

22:05 I see you also fell victim to that shit. That Hazbin Wiki you used; the "Hazbin Hotel: Journey to the Light" is NOT their official wiki, but a rather a wiki for a fanfic that NEVER got released. You have NO idea how many times people made that mistake.

[@HK47_115]

Lol, so he don't even need credit for it because it's not actually theirs?😂 Wow.

[@Diamond1234]

...lol I remember reading that after finishing the series and being super confused on where they got all that stuff about Lucifer's family on the angels and realized that it was all a huge fanfic lol-

[@Jdudec367]

yeah there really needs to be an official hazbin wiki or at least a proper fan made one...

[@HK47_115]

@@Jdudec367 I'm surprised the fans haven't made one themselves. It's been done before with many franchises.

[@mattwo7]

Not "never got released" but rather "never existed." I mean really 99% of the time "fanon wiki" is just a euphemism for "idea wiki" a loose collection of headcanons (and that wiki isn't even that, it's for the headcanon of "the people who work on the fanfifc" as no one else is allowed to edit it, which defeats the point of a wiki and FANDOM seriously needs better community guidelines but they don't care as long as that wiki makes them ad rev without doing anything illegal or damaging to their brand image in the eyes of parent company TPG Inc's shareholders. A former AOL CEO (from 2002 to 2006) runs FANDOM, unsurprisingly)

[@rjbalbuena7789]

I have said it before and will say it again. I knew Viv when she was still a nobody in Deviantart back in 2008. The difference between her attitude then and now is an infinite number of miles apart. It's like she's a different person now. All I can say is that she was driven for greatness and she wasn't gonna let anyone stop her. That being said, based on some things I've heard from 3rd parties who said worked with her, she may or may not have stepped on some people to get where she is now. I cannot do that if I want to be one of the greats. But take that all with a grain of salt. I don't speak to her anymore. Edit: Oh god she DID steamroll people. Well, fuck.

[@frug5629]

The one common thing I've heard about her is that she is an absolute drama queen. She would start arguments and feuds over really stupid and minor issues. In terms of work history, I've heard she is a total headache to work with. Barely organized, did little work but acts like she carried the entire project, petty and vindictive personality.

[@thelaughingman3825]

Could we get some explanation? I'm interested lol

[@daviddoingstuff4725]

10:32 - “Disney…could probably money their way out of genocide” *instant flashbacks of Mulan remake Uighur controversy*

[@FaeFixion]

Oof

[@Rydrake6]

Bored oranges: Vivziepop Captions: *Vivy poop*

[@InternetSexyLoser]

Damn even KZbin hates Viv

[@dj-um7el]

​@@InternetSexyLoser Lol

[@enderguardian7443]

"vivzie poop" - brandon rogers

[@nickthebabba7767]

I’m going to call her that from now on

[@CanyonCoyote]

@@nickthebabba7767 I did that long before I found this comments thread

[@Garden0flowr]

I love Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss unironically, but Vivziepop isnt perfection incarnate As a fanbase, we should acknowledge that Vivienne is a person too and can be flawed and make mistakes As a fanbase of anything, really, we should also be able to think critically or deeply about the media we like

[@Aural4444]

Honestly, many just want drama and don't care if the rumors are true or false, they just look for excuses to hate freely without repercussions.

[@HK47_115]

Ah, no shit? This is every damn fan base in a nutshell.

[@mistermidnight1823]

​@@HK47_115 actually humans in general do this

[@EeveelutionStorm]

And how about as a fanbase, y'all learn to grow up and stop dogpiling on the same person making your gay hell fantasy fanfiction fodder? Seriously, you think this is all mature?

[@nickgilstad9276]

Media literacy is a dying art, sadly. I'm a huge Hazbin Hotel fan but I'm NOT a Vivzie fan, and that's completely fine. Just like I despise J.K. Rowling I can still look back fondly on the Harry Potter series without letting my opinions of the creator ruin my views of the original story. No one seems to want to come up with their own opinions about the story because they get caught up in their hatred of just one facet that played a role in the story creation. There's certainly valid criticism for both Viv and the HH/HB shows, but those criticisms tend to lose a lot of merit if they can't focus on one subject and instead devolve into nonsense rambling.

[@Chixistigma]

"I wish I can earn that much money per second. I mean, I am, you're about to watch an ad. Welcome back." Bruh I didn't get an ad and this joke confused me for a second lol.

[@Hatsune-Miku_Fan]

I didn't either but it would have been beautiful if I did

[@RailRide]

I got one at that point...slammed it in so quick it was uncanny. YT tries to stick them in some pretty obvious breaks in the action. The channel owner may have some control over where ads get inserted ( _supposedly_ , since my channel isn't monetized this is secondhand info), but it's said to be faulty. _China Uncensored_ places obvious pauses in their videos for ad breaks, complete with fade-to-black, and oftentimes they pass without ads (though that may be just demonitization due to stuff the CCP doesn't like)

[@rockargen9591]

@@RailRide i think creators can choose where ads get placed, with some limitations ofc

[@RailRide]

@@rockargen9591 True. I've heard creators say as much. Have you ever noticed that if you rewind a video, say by tapping the left arrow key, sometimes this act by itself will trigger an ad break where there wasn't one before?

[@rockargen9591]

@@RailRide well, i dont anymore, but when i used to get them i do remember that happened sometimes, its pretty weird.

[@austinreed5805]

Being a Vivziepop fan is rough with all of the “drama” that’s like a dark cloud looming over the entire community.

[@anjaliguitaristpenguin9578]

People also hate on fans of the show unfairly for liking a show with a "problematic" creator

[@CatToy626]

I am a fan of the works of Vivziepop and H.P. Lovecraft.

[@Lunarrbase]

@@CatToy626 good for you. no one cares .

[@99morphine]

Lol i was about to comment "I DONT CAAAAREE" but it seems u beat me to it

[@WobblesandBean]

​@@anjaliguitaristpenguin9578 There comes a point where you can no longer separate the art from the artist.

[@MiaoNya]

My number 1 piece of advice for Ms. Vivianne Pop is that she would benefit from logging off the internet.

[@Aural4444]

And you don't say that to bullies or haters?

[@Yami-mugoni613]

Not necessarily to lot of the internet but get off twitter

[@Aural4444]

@@unluckify1 In my opinion, they should leave the internet or make them leave the internet, because at this rate, the internet will only be full of cyberbullies

[@_n1ght__sh4d3_]

@@Aural4444 You want the critics off the internet too? You want the whole internet to kiss Viv's boots? You want them to ignore her nazi OC?

[@Aural4444]

@@_n1ght__sh4d3_ What I want is for all those who doxx and cyberbully to be recriminated for their behavior and even punished. And I don't care if internet likes Viv or not, I just want to stop spread false rumors or believe everything they're told, because it's pathetic how naive they are. And here's an example of pathetic naivety, do you really think Viv is a Nazi for creating a fanart of Gay Hitler mayonnaise? You know, combining two dark comedy movies that both made fun of Hitler in different ways? Even though she has never drawn or mentioned anything like that again?

[@k1lllg0re]

I find it ironic that Vivziepop doesn't credit artists, yet her fans go rampid whenever someone "steals Vivzie's art style". for context: back in the old years of 2016-2019, a lot, and i mean A LOT of vivzie fans would foam at the mouth whenever they see another artist taking heavy inspiration from Vivziepop's artwork. My sister was literally harrassed endlessly at the age of 12 because of this issue as well. Now finding out that Vivziepop literally copied a drawing to a tee and went on to call the original artist an ABUSER is so ironically funny.

[@thebakingvet]

What was the artist Vivzie copied?

[@k1lllg0re]

​@@thebakingvetit's literally in the video.. 💀💀💀 21:21

[@LikaLaruku]

If HH & HB came out in the late 90s or early 00s, it would have been a somewhat generic art style & everyone would have said it was influenced by Jhonen Vasquez, Jonathan Ian Mathers, Maxwell Atoms, & Genndy Tartakovsky, with some Disney & FurAfinity influence thrown in.

[@thebakingvet]

@@k1lllg0resorry I didn't watch all of the video

[@compassrose1466]

THEY STILL DO IT ON TIKTOK. I quit using TikTok because it felt so close to Etika agai but to so many young artists being told to off themselves for using her style as inspo to grow into their OWN STYLE

[@TDog3775]

18:34 that ad placement got me so bad I can't even be mad lol

[@lovign749]

same

[@arcitheanonymousbird_04]

same. genuinely the only time i laughed at an ad interrupting a video

[@Speariture]

I was tweaking tf out that he did this to us but ofc GG 😔💀

[@ArceusHater69]

I didn’t see an ad though

[@conejitorosada2326]

I really like how you handled this with care, and consideration that some people give flame to Vivzie for things that aren't true or at least not that bad, but you still stated that Vivzie is not a good person by stating the faults and stupid things that she continued on doing! Also, I really like how you looked back onto your past video to see where you have gone wrong and corrected for it in the video showing both remorse and accountability! It's very welcoming to see! Talking about drama, especially one that's constantly unfolding is very hard to talk about since there would definitely be instances where you end up perpetuating something really bad and it's always best to recognize that fact, try to make amends, then move on with the knowledge of not doing the same mistakes. It's very nice, and talking about general internet things, especially one that not many know will definitely be interestiing!

[@DefinitelyBoredOranges]

I do agree but I definitely wouldn’t call the stuff vivzie did as drama because it’s a pretty high level of fucked up

[@conejitorosada2326]

I agree. What she does is pretty messed up, and it should never be sugarcoated or underestimated. I'm still very glad that you emphasized it!@@DefinitelyBoredOranges

[@syafeeqahisham1740]

Same. No offense,but I really don't like how vivzie did the minimal of giving credit to people for ideas when it comes to music videos.

[@ryanmoore6259]

@@DefinitelyBoredOranges a lot of it turned out to be bullshit. The claim she was a pedophile was unambiguously garbage. Erin Frost also turned out to be lying/leaving things. Most of what she did do was just dumb edgelord bullshit

[@Aural4444]

I recommend Ayy Lmao video, it is much better, detailed and unbiased than this one.

[@BeedleTheImmortal]

Ive been apart of fandoms sorrounding vivs work since the zoophobia days and i dont think shes a horrible person but someone who needs to delete twitter and take a step back. Ive seen twt users(most infamous one is chai) who lie alot about her and dont focus on her actual mistakes..its so weird. Im not suprised tho, even early viv had alot of weird fans/haters or ppl who became obsessed w her and got obsessively mad at her cos their fav ship isnt canon and stuff, its a complex situation. To summarise, twitter is toxic, ppl should avoid it and not trust every simgle tweet they see as 100℅ true and that viv isnt perfect but she isnt a supervillan and the hate she gets compaired to other celebs who are way way worse is insane. Sorry if i didnt word anything right :)

[@BeedleTheImmortal]

I think a good example Is ppl calling her a constant project dropper cos she cancelled projects, these projects were cancelled due to her being scammed, focusing on her main porjects and thing not working out, she has like 3-4 cancelled ones and zoophobia is on a long hiatus(she got in torible for that recentlu co ppl thought its name was tied to zoophilia...zoophobia means fear of all animals.) The project I hope she does get back into is her adpatation of Alice in wonderland, the art for it was super cute and it was focused on viv mental health but she needed to take a break from it due to writing it affecting her so much and she had other projects Ie hazbin and helluva. everytging that viv is involved in is layered and not black and white 90℅ of the time. I hope she improves as a human, takes a step back and Deletes twitter. Sorry for the ramble💀

[@thatkingdomheartsguy9615]

I think Nux said it best "On Twitter, the source just trust me bro is credible."

[@LiveLaughLovecraft]

Ugh…shipping people…

[@BeedleTheImmortal]

@@LiveLaughLovecraft shipping wars r insane

[@Randomyoutuber-4831]

fun fact about Chai: he actually used to be a massive Vivziepop fan until it became apparently that Striker/Blitzo wasn't going to be canon and that Stolas wasn't this 'bourgeoisie' villain he had built up in his head. It's pure entitlement.

[@MayuCVA]

Honestly, I feel like there's a lot of stuff missing here on why people hate her, but from what I seen, a lot of people don't wanna open up/talk about it because of how rabid her fanbase is. I'm an old man, and I been around since the veeeery first time she ever got popular online, like back in the 2010s kind of shit. I seen so much of what she's done, and how little she's changed/improved. She always does the worst, most backhanded apologies when being called out, and repeats really gross patterns of behavior. I just really wish for there to be some healing to all the victims of both Vivzie and her lil group of friends. So, so many of them (and her) have allegations popping up against them every so often, and the people accusing them get horribly harassed and driven off the internet almost IMMEDIATELY before they even have a chance to prove anything because of just how nasty her defenders are..

[@Anonymous-bl8df]

How did she gain that kind of fanbase at the first place

[@MayuCVA]

@@Anonymous-bl8dfHonestly? I feel like how a fanbase treats criticism and allegations towards the creator/center of the fanbase speaks volumes of said creator/creators. Critique and improvement should be encouraged and welcome, as long as they're in good faith. However, in more than a DECADE that Viv's been around and popular, she's never improved, she's never listened or accepted criticism (at least not willingly or correctly), and her fanbase always acts like she's so holy and can do no wrong, instead of being critical and holding her up to a better standard. Also, whether she accepts criticism or not is one thing, but the fact that people have come out against her and a lot of the people she closely associates with, with claims of abuse, racism, discrimination, and even things like grooming and SA (her friends, I've yet to see one towards her), and every single time the people who put out the allegations get run out of the internet and harassed horribly to no end... It really tells you something about Vivzie herself, and the people she associates with and brings onto her projects. She never discourages these actions from her fans, and is in fact, seen liking the posts harassing people coooonstantly.

[@Anonymous-bl8df]

@@MayuCVA if im being honest, criticism is hard to swollow. Sometimes it's not like I hate those who criticize me but it makes me feel incompetent. Why did I mess up so badly with things I care and put a lot of time and passion into. It makes me hate myself for not being able to live up to expectation and many creators probably think the same. I don't know how to seperate my self worth from my works.

[@MayuCVA]

@@Anonymous-bl8df that's completely understandable tho! Criticism CAN be super hard to swallow, and I believe one needs to be in the right mind space for it to really take effect. however, the issue w/ Viv is that a lot of the criticism is to her actions outside of her shows being very harmful, and instead of wanting to improve to stop from causing harm, she will double down at times or give extremely backhanded apologies :/

[@Nekoszowa]

@@Anonymous-bl8df It's just something about the whole emofurry fandom that causes it. I've been on the internet for a long time, was a part of that fandom back in the day as well, and for some reason most creators I followed had extremely vicious fanbases, but with age they started to fall off, but since she went pro-animator and released a show- yeah, it's like various popular anime fanbases. Perhaps she became a bit too popular.

[@lightyearpig12]

The Vivziepop Effect, or as it's better known as, "MY SOURCE IS THAT I MADE IT THE FUCK UP!" But in all seriousness, a lot of this could've been avoided if Viv didn't feel the need to respond to every single piece of criticism she gets and just left social media for a bit because it brings out the worst in everyone.

[@Trazyn-in-a-silly-hat]

I do like that, the entire time, you never claimed it was a bad thing to do to still enjoy the show. I think the amount of people who perpetuate the idea that you can't enjoy the show and disagree with vivzie's negative actions at the same time is insane. Yeah I think its a good show, does that mean that I think she's a good person? Not necessarily. I appreciate you not being like that, it's such a breath of fresh air.

[@brawler5760]

I LOVE Hazbin Hotel, one of my favorite shows this year unironically. But Vivzie can eat my ass, honestly

[@Wirzxcve]

He should’ve, hotel and helluva are the single most underperforming shows with only pandering and 8 bit themes, going off of cliches and bad theology of a literal religion, it’s like giving a spot light to FuturisticHub for his attempts at animation being better than someone who can’t animate at all, but the person who can’t actually know how not to have their character have sex with a creeper in front of all their audience

[@Ratstick58]

The music is great. Singing's great, comp is great, themes are great, designs are interesting. I don't see the hate it gets, sure there's some edgy humor but it seems more goofy less mean spirited than even something like Family Guy.

[@littlemoth4956]

I mean, I don't really think the shows are all that good. It reminds me of Family Guy with the way you kind of have to turn parts of your brain off to fully enjoy it.

[@RufioTheThird]

Oh, even Toby Fox has made mistakes in the past. Should I even mention the EarthBound Halloween Hack? Yeah, please. Never give up ^^

[@TheUndeniablyPowerfulH]

absolutely comedic disaster of a missed steak

[@addison_v_ertisement1678]

And him trying to paint Mat Pat as a mustach twirling villain.

[@BelBelle468]

He doesn’t look upon that Hack favorably. But I don’t think the content in that back is bad. Plus idk, a closeted homosexual screaming gay slurs out of desperation while losing his shit is hella funny. Especially when it happens right before megalovania plays

[@anidiot4801]

@@BelBelle468 a closeted homosexual… what?

[@LiveLaughLovecraft]

@@addison_v_ertisement1678this. Especially, with how he’s finally leaving…

[@vajbujem6698]

ignorance births malice. the greatest evil is stupidity by choice.

[@trustmeits610pm2]

Some knowledge is cursed and we are genuinely better off not knowing.

[@twaggytheatricks4960]

@@trustmeits610pm2 It's arguable, to be fair, as it entirely depends on the person to which said knowledge is entrusted. As an example: to some people, knowing that their shining bright view of an artist they idolize (whoever that artist is, of course: this isn't a jab at Vivziepop, as I personally have nothing against her ) is flawed because the artist in question is actually a horrible person is legit world-shattering, and now it's impossible for them to enjoy anything they produce. To other people, having that knowledge helps them apply death of the author _better,_ and could in fact offer them the kind of liberating perspective that lets them enjoy the art _more_ because of how the flaws they discovered humanize the person they admired. Knowledge is only as cursed as the onlooker makes it, I think; but of course I don't necessarily think everyone should think the same.

[@nachgeben]

Yes, but when the people choosing what is stupid are 'you made an unsavory character, so you're guilty of that' or 'you associated one time with someone I hate, so you're evil', then they're not great judges. Knock it off and stop acting like a hysterical pearl clutcher. You all look like fundamentalists and babies.

[@nikeiyomiuri2728]

I’ve never seen someone who both deserves and doesn’t deserve the hate they get at the same time

[@yamataichul]

She doesn't, I've seen worse

[@nikeiyomiuri2728]

Just because something is far worse doesn’t excuse her of her shitty behavior, if I slapped someone but somebody else punched them the victim would have a right to be pissed at both of us@@yamataichul

[@yamataichul]

@@nikeiyomiuri2728 yeah, that's why conflicts are settled between each party primarily, otherwise, on the internet, we will always get a distorted version of events. I rather believe in people learning for the better than permanently labeling them asshats based on shitty behavior from 2019-21, in 2024

[@notjimpickens7928]

@@yamataichul criticism literally isnt a conflict but okay.

[@ArcticFFox]

Gonna correct you for a sec, coming from someone who knows how to do the kind of cleanup Viv's crew does. Firstly, it's 24fps usually, not 12. Secondly, this isn't 12 or 24 individual frames you have to draw, the animators often animate on 2s or 3s, meaning that a lot of frames are just up and duplicated. This is in addition to the cleanup artists copy and pasting frames to alter small details. From my own personal experience a second of clean up can take 1 hour if you're being efficient. That's 60 bucks an hour. That is not slave labor as many have called it. Cleanup animators aren't on the same level anymore as the old disney cleanup artists were. They don't do cleanup by hand anymore, they don't draw over the animation by hand. Spindle's team specifically tends to use Toon boom's line tool to do most if not all the work, which speeds up the progress significantly. The whole argument of being underpaid is coming from people who don't understand that and who have never done cleanup in that way.

[@ArcticFFox]

to back up what I'm saying here, Victoria Void here on youtube is one of Spindle's cleanup animators. They've uploaded a video titled "HELLUVA BOSS CLEANUP ANIMATION TIMELAPSE" which shows exactly what I'm talking about.

[@patrick_epic6969]

no

[@patrick_epic6969]

@eggisawesome 😎

[@patrick_epic6969]

@eggisawesome ikr

[@hiddenflare6169]

Hmm this is real interesting I admit.

[@Aldeyau]

(Edit - nah imma stay vague, people who take a strangers OPINION and run with it are stupid and I don't need to elaborate for them) I personally dislike Viv for the things that she has proven to have done. She has shown to not only be immature but also toxic as well, and I just don't fuck with that. HOWEVER. People spreading rumors as though they're true is disgusting and irresponsible. Hate her for the things she HAS done, not for the things people think she's done.

[@gambroneyumike869]

What kind of things were true im just asking i wasn't following this situation

[@anubis7457]

@@gambroneyumike869 She poisoned our water supply, burned our crops, and delivered a plague unto our houses!

[@JoJo-cs5gp]

elaborate please???? I'm curious.

[@Projectarchan]

You can't just be vague like that, dude. State what supposedly immoral thing she's done and direct us to the evidence, for the burden of proof falls on you. Otherwise, you're doing the same thing as those other people: Spreading rumors.

[@timredgameryt]

​@gambroneyumike869 she supposably years ago i think on tumblr supported pedo characters and incest and weird shit.

[@8tober]

I feel like she interacts a bit too much with her fans, resulting in her sometimes having an actual breakdown over just some satire video. Great vid oranges, keep it up big guy🍄

[@Hatsune-Miku_Fan]

How Vivzie can stop the drama constantly tossed at her: stop using Twitter Honestly I think the criticism is very deserved at times,some of the things she did for the show is nasty But if she doesn't wanna respond normally,JUST DON'T RESPOND!

[@NightmareRex6]

as an root adminastrator in hl2dm rp, i see ofton two are fighting, both demand punishment of other side, but BOTH did WRONG! "monkeys flinging poop at eachother" another fellow admin sied it is like.

[@kayb933]

I appreciate your realistic approach to the Vivziepop criticism. She definitely has faults, and it's important to not cloud those over with false accusations because it just makes the conversation unproductive.

[@briasinterlude1755]

I don’t expect Viv to be perfect but at least learn from her past mistakes to become a better person. Sadly, I don’t think she’s interested in doing that. One, she probably doesn’t think she does anything wrong (given how former workers and friends have spoken out) and two, there will always be fans and associates to defend her.

[@DawnMacaron]

guys wake up definitely bored oranges video dropped

[@ReverandSatan]

As far as anyone suing Disney and it being ridiculous, the Hell's Angels Motorcycle Club did in fact sue Disney (for copyright infringement) and won. Which I will never not find hilarious.

[@no_0riginality937]

Tbh I like Hazbin and Helluva (Granted i will admit their writing is FAR from perfect) but when it comes to Vivzie as a person I like to think thats shes not a bad person however she has a maturity of a middle schooler (which explains her humor) and very prideful of her work. Granted there are people who are out for her for unknown reasons but i will admit though that how she handled part of someone being involved in the Poison sequence was pretty irresponsible and she couldve own up to it and even fire the dude. I see the best of people much like Charlie so hopefully she will handle things more gracefully since she is a drama magnet in twitter.

[@android17mate]

I cannot personally stand Vivziepop But I can seperate the art from the artist. I enjoy Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel. Helluva Boss is a fun internet show that has Brandon Rogers spearheading it. Hazbin Hotel is good but it’s really gonna need to step it up in season 2.

[@sweet_crystalzzz]

Yes. I enjoy the shows, the animation and characters are very entertaining and interesting! But Viv needs to really calm down

[@DrJr.]

im a very cheap person so i cant watch hazbin :(

[@jonunciate7018]

It's like I love star wars even tho George Lucas just wants to sell toys and then sold his soul to Disney.

[@chrryflavoured]

​@@DrJr. piracy exists brotha

[@DrJr.]

@@chrryflavoured I might not have a brain, but i have an idea.

[@italex827]

I think that "scandal" with Glitch productions was a learning experience we needed. We can't just blindly believe anything on the internet. We never know if it's something spreading lies or half truths just to tarnish the reputation of something that's popular. Sure, Luke isn't perfect, but he gave a very "from the heart" apology. Rarely do all sides universally agree to give someone a second chance.

[@BlikTuberFictionalIsBased]

I actually remember getting into a small Twitter argument with VivziePop because I said there’s only two ways to handle criticism: Reply in a mature way or ignore it. She wasn’t happy by me saying that. I ended up blocking her because I’m tired of seeing her cry every time she gets criticized. Still love the shows but her behavior on Twitter is a god damn mess. Also VivziePop don’t make a serious allegation like abuse unless you have evidence. As a victim of my father’s abuse, her doing that pisses me off to no end. (Not physical abuse want to clarify)

[@Aural4444]

Dude, that's victim blaming... So the solution according to you is to let yourself be pushed or doxxed by others because defending yourself only makes things worse? Sorry, but I disagree

[@KietaiOtaku]

@@Aural4444 im sorry but Viz deadass need to get off the internet for the way she's acting, her acting so goddamn prideful is doing nothing but adding fuel to the fire

[@artistanthony1007]

​@@KietaiOtaku She's definitely been told that many times but doesnt wish to, she would've been smart but no just chooses to remain on the account she's had since 2016.

[@artistanthony1007]

​​@@Aural4444Mate Vivziepop is not a child or new to Twitter, she's an adult and needs to act like one, you have issues if you don't care if she acts like a child and she's not a KZbinr anymore, she's a professional manager now and needs to start changing her act and she has made shows known by everyone in the world, she cannot act like this or be shocked that she's a target, anyone popular to this extent suffer like this, she's not the first.

[@BlikTuberFictionalIsBased]

@@artistanthony1007 I agree

[@Kannibalklownie]

Vivziepop will just never escape the controversy

[@x_Artur_x]

Fu## you People who just hate Vivizpop!!! 🤬

[@Moony_cakes]

@@x_Artur_xfu## you people who kiss her a##

[@OhHeckNono]

Even if she could, I don't think she has the ability to do so.

[@MrJimmyTide]

@@Moony_cakesis this really something to get all worked up about? If she sucks, don’t watch her. Hate boners aren’t healthy.

[@Kannibalklownie]

@@Moony_cakes what??

[@Shadowilum]

Can we agree that Twitter is just "I have nothing else to do, I'm just going to get mad at creators for no reason."

[@JeremyWoollen]

Not really sadly

[@aguyontheinternet8436]

I agree, except not limited to creators

[@Shadowilum]

@@aguyontheinternet8436 I get your point, but twitter just needs to chill in general

[@jyjaeskz]

It is

[@kevintanza6968]

Twitter is literally where most awful people get together to try to destroy other people. And take glee in that.

[@diurtydantv8061]

I think the biggest reason people don't like viv is because she's cringe. That's not to say she hasn't done anything worth criticizing but let's be honest, most people who hate her saw her work, thought it was cringe, and will now find any and every reason to dislike her and her work.

[@Wayte13]

This. And I could write an entire gd essay on what "cringe" is a dogwhistle for with a lot of these dudes

[@diurtydantv8061]

I meant "cringe" to mean 2000s seem kid aesthetics and "fuck word=funny" humor. A lot of people aren't into that.

[@Impalingthorn]

I get really tired of people trying to put every last little thing in a box. Do you like early 2000's and 90's material? Cringe. Do you have passion about a story or piece of art you like? Cringe. Cringe cringe cringe cringe cringe... Jesus christ, people are a broken record. They're not CONVINCING me to hate Vivzie or any of her work, they're convincing me that the internet was a mistake and not everyone deserves to have a megaphone to shout at the world with.

[@MasonShmason]

@@diurtydantv8061 then...maybe they should move on and find media that isn't that?

[@spoopyvirgil4944]

@@Impalingthorn Anytime people says cringe, I just remember the time a bunch of adults harassed a literal child over literal fanfiction.

[@aaabbb-ve9po]

“Don’t copy my style!” Girl your style is literally every OC on DeviantArt please humble yourself.

[@BeastlyEevee]

15:20 to be fair, proshipping as a label has been taken by weirdos who just want to use any justification for their weird kinks and shit. Fanlore goes into some of the "legit" history, but I think most of the actual "proshippers" (if you solely use Fanlore's definition) don't identify with the label because, uh, it's common sense to _not_ harass and bully someone because uwu they don't ship right or whatever. And by harass/bully, I mean sending fucking gore and actual CP to their inboxes. Thanks Voltron fandom for forever scarring me!

[@PinkErmine]

Thank you! Proshipping used to be "don't harass people for shit that isn't harming you live and let live" and now it's just… eugh. The label is associated w heinous and freaky ass people who don't exactly follow the "anti-harassment" part of it

[@Anna-hy4sb]

Yes The Right Word Is Darkshipping!

[@purplepedantry]

Well, now the definition has been changed, so now we kind of have to deal with that and find a decent consensus for how to define the difference again. I label myself as an anti-shipper, but most of us on both ends do look down on harassment, so I know a middle ground can be found.

[@EeveelutionStorm]

Proshipping isn't even what you said and this is what's wrong with this whole issue. Proshipping, is 90% just people wanting to exist, enjoy their fiction in peace and go back to the days where people who got angry over ships and screaming over them, were ignored and called dramatic. Instead, thanks to the amount of people trying to use fandom as activism, we get things like routinely sending CP to people and the FBI tip line being clogged up. In fact, why don't we talk about that? Instead of shitting on Vivziepop for the millionth time. How about the amount of antishippers, who sent CP and gore to people? Or the amount of anti's who turned out to be pedophiles in reality? Nah, this guy's talking about *Vivziepop* instead of shaming THAT behavior.

[@PinkErmine]

@@EeveelutionStorm I agree with the first half, but I still think it's fine to talk about Vivziepop's legacy and the state of the internet regarding her. Yeah, the whole "proship anti-ship" thing is a big issue, but Vivzie's behavior shouldn't *not* be talked about. Also, I don't agree with the "having a person who's into non-con working on a scene with SA" and "I don't agree with proshipping" bit, because that employee themselves are a survivor if I'm not mistaken (correct me if I'm wrong). Just because they have a fictional kink doesn't mean they shouldn't be given a piece to work on. That's just dumb. It's fiction. Yeah it may be weird but is it actively harming people? No. So I dunno why DBO disagrees with proshipping, he probably has a misunderstanding of it. Ship and let ship

[@Birdyboys]

I’m actually surprised you said people only called Vivziepop transphobic bc of being a former fan of Blaire White and then mention Kendraws’ document later on, who also stated that she misgendered them repeatedly when she was talking to someone else.

[@anubis7457]

Intentionally? There's a difference between intentional and unintentional. If you don't "pass" you're going to have some people who aren't familiar with you unintentionally misgender because of how categorization happens in the mind. It'll take a long time for you to pass from on category to the other in a person's head if you don't fit that category's description in their mind.

[@EscapeReality123]

"Unless your name is Toby Fox, you have done something wrong in the past" man, this line is hard cause its sadly so true. Toby Fox is literally the only creator I have ever seen not being problematic AT ALL, and having zero drama

[@FaeFixion]

“We love Toby Fox” we all say in unison

[@SCYTHEQUOTES]

Vivzie is right on the line of chronically online. I stopped supporting her after she defended someone with a really bad attraction.

[@SodaFrizz666]

I had to stop supporting her altogether as well, as soon as I learned how childish she acts. One main reason is due to how she treats criticism- battling opinions like its a competition she needs to win (lmao). She also liked the tweet of one of her defenders that was attacking a critiquer, and had called their oc "ugly" from being so mad that they pointed out the shows flaws. Viv condoning that behavior is very telling of her character in my eyes.

[@Aural4444]

@@SodaFrizz666 Personally, I love her attitude, she is a queen

[@Jdudec367]

who was that?

[@2FortTourist]

@@Aural4444 Someone come get this simp

[@compassrose1466]

@@SodaFrizz666she acts childish because of the people she hangs with and even allows in her vicinity. I won’t accuse her of anything but I will say the second you say “kids will get their hands on it either way” to allow kids to still be near you and in your fandom/community that’s weird. You can make efforts to keep minors away when you’re ALMOST IN YOUR THIRTIES like wtf

[@HexScriptor]

Thank god you actually gave her a reasonable amount of grace while criticizing her. Another creator made a whole video about the same thing but was just dickriding her the entire time.

[@milo5498]

ayylmao moment

[@Firecracker119]

toby fox is not without sin, he willingly worked on homestuck

[@AlfurAldric2211]

The parts he had in it is arguably what makes it great for most, but yeah.

[@toxicink3020]

Something something megalovania vriska vs sans

[@persephoneelizabeth9058]

Hi I know this comment is months old but why is that bad? I haven't looked into HS since I was like 14

[@DARKthenoble]

I don't hate vivziepop. I'm just deeply disappointed.

[@AdrianHernandez-rn1sq]

I feel like she just doesn’t follow the rule that people will always have a problem with what you do, so you should just ignore it. It reminds me of when Dream went on rants on twitter. She just shouldn’t reply to comments and stuff on twitter, especially using curse words. Because it just proves you got pissed off.

[@DARKthenoble]

@@AdrianHernandez-rn1sq twitter is designed to make you pissed off. Its designed to be a virtue signaling rage box. No logical calm arguments can be made in 2 sentences. Remember the paragraph length word vomit. Is often something written from the perspective of oh perhaps this person is ill informed, and is capable of being reasoned with at length. Remember even if they say in that paragraph that they don't care. They still typed it up over the course of a hour. So they still put some care into it. Where as if you only have two sentences to explain a problem. Its always going to come off like a insult, because you can only reply back with the most primitive rawest of simplest of answers. They had a year with a ton of source material they could have used. I know they could have done a lot better with the writing. You have the source material of both the bible and the satanic bible. It could have been a lot better. And I'd somewhat doubt like most ip's I liked or thought was interesting. That i'd ever get a chance to rewrite them to fix the damage bad writing. Notably watching what happened to halo is a blood tragedy that was as just as bad as watching the Hindenburg zipplin crash all over again....

[@LewdNoodz]

Her not crediting people for their art is a problem that I can't get how Viv wouldn't understand given she is also an artist. What a storyboarder ships is NOT, whether they got off or not to what they storyboarded isn’t relevant given how the scene condemns the relationship. The fact people dug into the staff member's Twitter to find this info I think is kinda weird.

[@TheStormyClouds]

It turns out the wiki that features the image is actually a fanmade wiki and the real wiki doesn't even use that image.

[@LewdNoodz]

@@TheStormyClouds Ah, so people lying to make someone look bad when the truth will do? Damn, drama yt at it again.

[@TheStormyClouds]

@@LewdNoodz Yep, truly ironic that even some of the "true" facts about why people hate her end up being false.

[@flyingfridgezzz7347]

Honestly, the best part of this video was you genuinely taking responsibility for any opinions you may have swayed in the wrong direction in the past. I love, love, LOVE seeing creators take responsibility for their misdeeds and it’s so rare on this platform that it was really refreshing to see a content creator who actually cares about whose image they destroy and whose image they revive, along with who they may be hurting or helping along the way. Subscribing just for that.

[@djrydell]

Personally, I dislike her because she would steal artwork from a friend of mine back in the day and created a hate character after them iirc, but I believe they settled their score. Still, my friend had to change their entire online identity due to all that drama and I essentially never heard from them again after it so it's a bit of a sore spot. Yet I am just one person, not 'the internet'! Hopefully she's grown a little since then?

[@mollyfowles7863]

What character did she create?

[@paracanthushepatus1547]

0:12 "indie animation is like a family dinner" except that viviziepop is not family friendly

[@metazoxan2]

Honestly I don't hate ... I'm just fed up with Helluva boss and Hazbin hotel and I think the biggest issue for me is simply she's too in love with her own characters. Unlike in the pilot where demons were demons and Charlie was an Anomaly, now they're all just missunderstood. I mean FFS the drunk own cat even used the phrase "We're dammaged" during his big musical bit. YOU ARE DEMONS OF HELL! Not a demon realm painted evil by humans, but the "sinners" version of hell. But as Helluva Boss progressed you start to realize all of the main characters can do no wrong. THey are written as loving, caring, gentle, and anything bad they do is a missunderstanding or just because they are "dammaged" which is a theme she uses for freaking everyone! I wanted a stories about demons running an assasination buisness and of a demon princess trying desperately to make bad people set in their ways have a change of heart. Instead I get nothing but family and relationship drama again and again and again. and even when people try to point out these issues her responses mostly boil down to "Oh you just don't understand the character" like her response to Millie being nothing more than an accessory to Moxxie. It doesn't matter if she has this entire head cannon about what she thinks counts as character depth if none of it actually makes it into the show. THere are other issues with her writing but these are the ones that get to me the most. She really needed some editors who could tell her no and explain how writing outside of fan fiction works. She has good ideas but she lacks professionalism to polish them. And some might say "Oh she'll learn that eventually" not if she can't take criticism. As much as people like to criticize the industry it's by learning from veterans that artists learn to start off on the right foot. Again I don't care to be part of the hate drama ... I'm just done.

[@Randomyoutuber-4831]

Didn't episode five of season two outright acknowledge that Millie felt like she was an accessory to Moxxie and possibly has some deeper insecurities in regards to that?

[@HunterStiles651]

@@Randomyoutuber-4831 The problem with that is it feels like an ad hoc response to the biggest criticism of Helluva Boss. People were complaining that Millie was a nothing character and was just an accessory to Moxxie, so they decided to make her character arc that she feels like an accessory to Moxxie, which is just putting the problem back a step.

[@Randomyoutuber-4831]

@@HunterStiles651 first, they didn’t decide in response to criticism. Episodes were planned and written out LONG in advance, to assume they did that solely as a way to push back against criticism is idiotic. Secondly, I feel that it’s setting up a plot line where it’s revealed Millie has an underlying sense of poor self esteem likely caused by her parents frequently acting condescending to her like they did in the harvest moon festival.

[@TeenWithACarrotIDK]

I also think that too many of her characters are immature. Even several thousand year old beings talk and act like they are teenagers. I don’t think her shows are saying much of anything, which is fine, but I wish they were.

[@metazoxan2]

@@Randomyoutuber-4831 FIrst of all, you don't know that. Don't make excuses and pretend they don't do any edits to fan responses. It's highly likely they at least revise the writing as they go. Second even if that was unrelated to criticism ... having the character aknowledge the issue with their own writting doens't magically make it go away. Like if you had a really boring show, having characters go "Isn't this boring" doesn't suddenly make it entertaining. Third having her character arc be effing self esteem issues and parent issues is the same damn one they give to everyone else dammit! So if they did that it would just prove Viziepop is absolutely incapable of writing more than one or two kinds of character arcs. Ultimately any kind of character arc for millie at this point feels too little too late and wouldn't even fix the overall issues with the writing so it's not as if all would suddenly be right with the world.

[@topcat59]

It seems like orange man is starting to show his face more, that’s neat.😺

[@sweet_crystalzzz]

Look I like Viv, her shows are well animated, they have good story and other stuff but she just needs to take it down a notch! She needs to learn to admit when she’s wrong and should get super pissed so easliy at stupid little comments people make on Twitter and stuff like that.

[@isaacturner9306]

I came here to learn new drama. I did not come here to see Oranges lifting himself on the desk while doing the "draw me like one of your French girls" pose and then snort cherryade everywhere while laughing. 10/10 gold star.

[@A.B.-ub9un]

"No one in their right mind would ever sue Disney" Ehh... about that... Elon Musk is support a actress for suing Disney.

[@andrewkoster6506]

"in their right mind" doesn't really apply to the most divorced man on the planet

[@lvoryRose]

My brain died reading that

[@Yami-mugoni613]

And at least he owns a shit ton of thing himself

[@PhoenixMerlyn69]

He is not in his right mind

[@A.B.-ub9un]

@@andrewkoster6506 Fair. He's never in his right mind.

[@Notllamalord]

The moment you KNOWIGNLY falsely accuse someone of something to achieve an end you have lost all credit in my eyes. That whole situation made me a D1 Vivziepop hater

[@taki7546]

You just described Viv‘s haters with that first sentence tho. Nice double standards

[@williamparker7025]

most of what they say is backed by evidence@@taki7546

[@Impalingthorn]

@@taki7546 This. The entire thing is double standards and I get sick of someone blowing up every month trying to rake in money off of fake drama.

[@Shunaiko]

@@taki7546 i mean, hating her for something for which evidence exists does not mean he agrees with those who hate her for things they made up? i might be misunderstanding smth, though

[@joshuaanderson1712]

@@taki7546 Yes, every single one of them is exactly the same and exactly as bad as she is, which means she shouldn't get criticism. /s

[@reversal2341]

Every other person: _talks normally_ Vivzie: *_fffffffff_*

[@SodaFrizz666]

I used to really like Hazbin/Helluva, i thought it was super new and creative and "funny", but since discovering how extremely Viv opposes criticism for her fanfictionly-written (AT TIMES) show, and how immature she can be, I'd rather give up on following her creations. At this point all they've taught me is how not to write a narrative. And how to write comedy that goes beyond "character swears a lot and that is funny."

[@Aural4444]

Basically, social pressure won lol

[@orangeslash1667]

@@Aural4444 One thing that is true, Helluva Boss can amazingly bad writing or interesting ideas are not planed out very well. This sadly gives me a reason to be suspicious for now.

[@Aural4444]

@@orangeslash1667 Suspicions of what? If you don't like something, don't watch it and that's it. If you liked something but after hearing negative public opinion of the work and the author, and you decide it's bad, you're just looking for excuses to say "why it is bad" convince yourself that you didn´t give in to social pressure. You can perfectly like a work that others consider bad in the same way that you can hate a work that others consider a masterpiece, the important thing is that it is your own opinion. And personally, I think Helluva Boss is very well written, but that's my opinion and I'm fine if you don't think the same.

[@orangeslash1667]

@@Aural4444 There are so many videos that say other wise about Helluva!!

[@Aural4444]

@@orangeslash1667 Basically you have no opinion of your own lol

[@yofwill]

Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel fan here. I got to admit that a lot of what was showcased in this video, is a shocker to me. That is because I can't keep up with all of the "Twitter and internet drama" these days. It is as if everyday I wake up, somebody is getting exposed or a project has been cancelled due to a lack of communication, miscommunication or a minor is involved. What a world we live in! Thank you for this informative video!

[@larkenberg]

vivziepop is lowkey just nuts

[@squares4u]

no she’s not “nuts” just very protective and defensive over her story and characters. it would be best for her to ignore all the dumb hate, she cannot please everyone

[@Yami-mugoni613]

Seeing how people dox her recently for merely associating with a certain indie creator eh

[@captianjoke3219]

​@@Yami-mugoni613 wait what again and which creator

[@olive92]

@@squares4uas a creative myself, I can tell you with certainty that being protective over her story and characters in no way justifies... *check's notes* Stealing art and then trying to paint the artist as an ab*ser when they insisted she credit them, as well as being acephobic and misgendering them constantly in the process.

[@Jdudec367]

@@olive92 She never stole art though and she did eventually properly credit them? And she wasn`t being acephobic either or meant to misgender anyone.

[@CosImUpRn]

orange

[@Clonehelmethole]

Man bad

[@ZapperRS]

Bored

[@strawburri420]

oramg

[@redchan_ebooks]

arnge

[@artistanthony1007]

Which shade do you like?

[@ghostcrackers]

Short answer: she's a talented artist who paints herself as unattractive as possible due to being chronically online and way too edgy for her own good

[@FaeFixion]

In other words: a pick me

[@artistanthony1007]

Like seriously, I'm 25 and I have a backup on a few SM sites, she's so stubborn and doesnt have a backup, if she wants to stay on Twitter that's fine but the woman has been on that same account since 2016 and I cant respect her for the simplest solution she can take to have this stop or help lessen the amount of stress & everything she deals with. And also, I know she is aware of this, this has been brought up maaany times and she refuses to stop, I didnt even need people to tell me to make a second account because it's not difficult to do or think of.

[@Aural4444]

Why don't you tell her harassers to stop?

[@_n1ght__sh4d3_]

@@Aural4444 Literally anyone who dislikes Viv w/ a brain hates harassers but we'll all the same to you, how about you tell the Viv stans harassing people for critiquing her work to stop?

[@inkcat7]

​@@Aural4444 do you know that you have almost 50 comments on this channel? i assume they're all under this video alone because i see you in everyone's replies. maybe you need to take the advice people are giving viv and take a step back instead of spending so much time defending her against the world. you keep saying that she's just defending herself and we're all evil victim blamers... i don't think you understand that not all critique is harassment or a personal attack, just like her considering she takes everything personally. is that problematic? no, not really. but it adds fuel to the fire, makes her look bad/immature and creates a shitty community where nobody is allowed to express any sort of negative opinion. don't get me wrong, i don't really care about her or her work. it's just ironic to see you acting in a similar way. take a break bro

[@Aural4444]

@@_n1ght__sh4d3_ How delicate do you have to be to consider harassment every time someone says you're wrong lol

[@Aural4444]

@@inkcat7 I admit that I have a problem with correcting people who say nonsense, I normally avoid these types of places but the title of the video fooled me. Honestly, the problem I have is that this video deliberately misinforms and tries to resurface old rumors already proven false (I recommend you watch The Truth Behind Vivziepop by Ayy Lmao). And by the way, most of my comments have been deleted or censored from this video even though I have not insulted or attacked anyone, why is that?

[@wish154]

For the record, Proshipping just means "ship and let ship" aka minding your own business and not bothering people who ship something you don't like. It's been the standard for modern day fandom since the 70's and the Star Trek ladies started to ship Spirk. Majority of the video is good, but he lost me when he started to kink shame. People are capable of separating their personal and professional lives, and anyone who's ever put hard work into a sexy drawing know that the majority of the process is less being horny and more being frustrated at anatomy. But I appreciate him going through the extra effort to do more research into what was going on and revisiting it.

[@littlemoth4956]

Whatever broseph

[@persephoneelizabeth9058]

He made the same mistake in his old video from months ago and it's a shame he hasn't improved or research because I know he's capable of it

[@Cupheadsadvocate]

"Unless your name is Toby Fox, you have done something bad in the past" The EarthBound Halloween Hack.

[@shiny_girl_loves_dragons1022]

Honestly I love both Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel. And with certain franchizes, like FNAF, I don't like to judge the show based on the creator's actions. Though I will say that Vivziepop probably should have just ignored a lot of the tweets that criticized both shows and other works she's associated with. It may also be important to hold creators accountable for what they do, but know when to draw the line. You can choose to hate a creator and spread awareness to others, but I draw the line into spreading lies and being a jerk to the person you hate

[@wantedasylum1091]

It's not that I hate nor love Vivziepop, it's that she serves as a guide and a warning to any upstart that wants to be taken seriously for once. It's pretty much how things goes for show business.

[@shelbywright9134]

Homegirl needs to quit yapping everytime someone makes some shit up. I wish I had as much energy to be alive as she does to be on Twitter.

[@Cccl09429]

Sounds like a personal problem seek therapy if you're lacking the will for life :)

[@CyberCervine]

Biggest problem is both sides. She is an avid twitter user and I don't blame her since there is little to no regulation on that app, so she doesn't have to censor any of her content for the show, but the problem is that.... it's twitter. It is filled with the most critical of people with the most EXTREME mindsets regardless if they are correct in criticisms against viv or not, as stated in the video. People will rip into her for valid and shit reasons, but holy fuck does she feed into them all the goddamn time. What she need is a PR manager that takes care of that kind of shit for her, because it's clear she cannot handle the hate, regardless if it is warranted or not. If she wants to be this professional creator of shows that have managed to get onto such large streaming platforms, she needs to get off of twitter and learn how to take constructive criticism. I understand her getting all up in arms about the random ass hate that is based off of stupid shit, lack of media literacy, or boiled off of fake allegations against her, but how she handles it just makes it worse.

[@Aural4444]

The problem is that she was already receiving harassment even before becoming a professional animator. And for your information, she does listen to criticism and her show evolves (Why do you think her art has evolved so much since 2019 or does she no longer use certain swear words?), but she only listens to the good ones, because if you haven't noticed, a lot of criticism is "change everything I don't like because I said so." But of course these things are not noticed... By the way, I'm not personally against how she acts against cyberbullying, because that's what victims should do, not stay silent and allow themselves to be humiliated, but I'm disappointed with how everyone blames the victim with Viv.

[@CyberCervine]

​@@Aural4444I'm not saying she never takes any criticism, it's just that a lot of people will put criticism out there for her, many of them being her own fans like me, and she reacts like they are attacking her show. That being said I'm fully aware a lot of the BS that is told to her is exactly that, BS. Fuck when episode 4(5? Can't remember which one) first aired people went nuts over the Poison Scene, saying it glorified SA and other shit when clearly it's displaying Angel's trauma and how he copes with the abuse Valentino inflicts onto him. Some people just genuinely lack media literacy and muddle in actual good criticism with their weird ass half baked takes

[@Aural4444]

@@CyberCervine Because it depends on the criticism, there is a difference from "I wish there were more chapters focused on Millie" to "Your art is so shitty, everything is so furry, there are so many swear words, and the characters are so flat, you should change all". I honestly don't know what your criticisms are but believe me whaen I say that she listens to the good ones, another thing is if she decides to listen to you because maybe she plans to do something else for the future or it will literally take time (more episodes of Millie have already been confirmed, but it will take time because They take months or years to make the episodes). Viv does listen to criticism, but don't expect her to stop using swear words because that's part of her and she's not going to change it lol And I appreciate you saying that about the Angel episode, I've also had to defend it (-_-)

[@CyberCervine]

@@Aural4444 LMAO yeah rest assured my criticisms are not that her art is ass. I actually like it a lot and how different it is compared to current animated shows like whatever the fuck is on Nickelodeon. The change is also nice because previously most adult shows had stuff and easily replicable animation cycles. Tbh my criticisms are the norm, though a few I know for sure she can't really fix because it's not something she can control. I think Hazbin hotels first season was way too short and rushed, but prime didn't give her and her team the 28 episodes they originally had planned for the season, hence why it turned out the way it did. For what it was, I think it turned out pretty good. I feel parts of the adult humor is forced, and much like HB they could tone a bit down of the swearing and not because I hate swearing but moreso because it doesn't feel natural all the time, but overall I love it alot. Shit I even got an Angel Dust cosplay I'm cooking up rn LMAO. One nitpick of mine that's just a personal thing is Valentino is bald. It's a lighthearted opinion, nothing more and definitely not valid criticism.

[@Aural4444]

@@CyberCervine Thanks for being reasonable, I appreciate it.

[@TheStarSquid]

Honestly the drama is exactly why I gave up on wanting to see the show or engage with the community.

[@CyberCervine]

I promise you that there are sane fans of the show out there, just avoid twitter 💀

[@Aural4444]

So why are you watching this video?

[@Yami-mugoni613]

@@CyberCervineexactly! Like idk why the fans on Twitter …people give Vivize this advice (I agree with it) but Twitter isn’t a fandom olace

[@BelBelle468]

It’s possible to consume content without interacting with the community. Especially when a majority of the haters and drama comes from ppl outside the community. But if you want to give the haters what they want, that’s ok. Personally I don’t watch just cuz I don’t like the show. It’s an opinion I have, and I don’t need the internet to tell me what to do

[@CyberCervine]

@@Yami-mugoni613 yeah Twitter in all honesty is just a. Really shit place to go LMAO.

[@cantcatchfoolz]

"I mean, I am because you're about to watch an AD." *Laughs in KZbin Premium*

[@leventeborbely7120]

The wage argument is complete nonsense. The INDUSTRY AVERAGE for clean-up artists is about $35 per second, which is the same that Spindlehorse animators got on the budget cut episodes. Now, Helluva Boss animators get $60, which is double that amount. So no, Vivzie's animators are not underpaid. In fact, there are other indie animations studios, that pride themselves is paying their employees $25 per second. Also, in 2d animation, there are plenty of times, where the same frame can take multiple seconds. Animators still get paid for these. And not to mention that animators don't necessarily have to redraw every frame, lots of the time, 50-90% of the previous frame can be recycled, saving a ton of work. And today, with modern animation software, the job is made even easier. Now, don't get me wrong, animation is still very hard and animators, in fact, do not get compensated enough for their work, but it not nearly as dire as people on twitter make it seem to be. I agree that animators should get higher wages, but Vivzie is doing fine, if not good in regards to paying her employees.

[@MimiMonday]

I don't like Vivienne (I'm not her fan so I'm not using her moniker). I do not respect her. But I am happy she made her dream come true. She deserves it. I am not rooting for her to fail. But I will not kiss her ass. She is a petulant child with enough pride to make Lucifer blush. I hope she gets humbled at some point, but I doubt it. NO ONE is asking her to be perfect. They want her to shut up and do better. She seriously needs to hire PR and a social media manager, and to stay off the internet if she doesn't want negativity or "haters." Otherwise, get over it. Haters gonna hate.

[@kiaheat1920]

💯💯💯

[@Alkim_gercek]

INSIDE JOB WAS FAUL. CONTINUE THAT SHOW

[@l.1586]

Not to simp too loudly but, I had no idea what Bored Oranges looked like and now that I do know....I can't say I'm disappointed. I am looking respectfully.

[@PinkErmine]

Yeah he kinda cute ngl

[@sachikofox7393]

Great video, a lot of valid critiques. Honestly, I love Hellava Boss and Hazbin Hotel, but my god, I really wish Vivzie would either delete her twitter account, or hand it off to a publicist to manage it.

[@Soupyyy_]

I’ve been a fan of Helluva and Hazbin since they had a pilot and I always loved how they made me laugh or how the animation was but now that I see so much hate I feel myself loosing interest or feel I might get hated for it - I don’t have Twitter and I don’t care to have it but these reasons to not like her are valid, I’ve separated herself and her work so I could enjoy the show more. But I do hope she changes some or gets better, I love what she does and I only hope she changes up. Twitter isn’t a good place and she’s only growing that hatred the more she uses it, which Twitter isn’t the best place to listen on opinions. So for me, this is just an artist who won’t let go which is kinda sad since I feel she’s a decent person in conventions and meet ups. But I’m glad to see your reasons, very refreshing :)

[@compassrose1466]

Personally I don’t like Vivzie. I like her art to an extent but for me it’s her enabling. She openly enables minors to find her content because “they’ll find it anyway” which is a trash reason. Just because they’ll find it another way doesn’t mean you can’t try and make awareness to the problem. Her show has a literal songs about victims of abuse/sa wanting to go back to their abuser and these kids have this song in the millions of listens. These children DO NOT understand this isn’t a normal relationship!! They look upto angel and think it’s completely okay! It’s the same as pretty little liars and the director openly pushing for minor/adult relationships in their show and loved minors on tumblr shipping it instead of saying “HEY NO THIS ISNT SOMETHING TO HOLD ON A PEDESTAL” compared to the creators of Bo Jack going “yeah no Bo Jack is NOT a good guy and if you look upto him and go “haha he’s like me” you’re the problem”. She can stand up to this but still allows children with open arms into her fandom..

[@HenryGray-sy4pu]

And how, exactly, do you propose she stop it? All of her videos are clearly marked 18+. Viv isn't personally responsible for every single kid who chooses to ignore that warning any more than the director of an R-rated movie is responsible for kids who snuck in to the theater.

[@l.francesca4780]

Okay, I'm going to ask something that's probably controversial but... Other than the fact that it feels icky, is there actually a problem with someone who's "openly into non-con" being in charge of scene about non-con? Non-con is uncomfortable to write and talk about. Isn't it better to have someone that's comfortable with it handling the scene instead of asking a bunch of, as you alleged, underpaid animators having to do emotional labor on top of artistic labor? Is the problem that they would allegedly "get off on it?" Because if the problem is that some people find non-con kinky... then isn't depicting non-con AT ALL a bad thing because a viewer might get off on it? Because you said yourself that a lot of people who survived that could find relief and closure in a scene like that done well. Uncomfortable but real statistic: consensual non-consent is a jarringly common kink, and among SA survivors it's also very common. I wouldn't find it surprising if a significant number of survivors would also get off to a non-con scene. Is it okay to attack them because "nobody should ever get off to this"? Or is the problem that somebody who is into it is creating the scene? Because, again, a significant number of SA survivors are also into consentual non-con and non-con content. If a survivor writes a scene like that and they also happen to be into it, is it bad? You talk about this like it's black and white, but it isn't. Human attraction and human repulsion are complicated things. And I agree that the world is a better place where non-con, or r*pe by it's proper name, doesn't happen in real life. But what does that have to do with fiction? Ask yourself what the real problem is with someone who's "openly into non-con" working on a non-con scene is. If it's bad to depict it at all, then are SA survivors who get catharsis from seeing that content evil for simply wanting relief? If it's bad for someone who's "into it" to be involved in the process, then are SA survivors who are into CNC evil for wanting to take back control and writing scenes to get off to because having control over when and how they explore that contradictory side of themselves feels good for them? If it's bad for someone who's "into it" to get paid to write that stuff for a big show, then should they just not be paid at all for their work? If non-con written by someone who's "into it" is inherently worse quality that is likely to be damaging, should SA survivors who are into CNC simply never write or examine their experiences publicly? Should people who are into non-con just shut up and not be "open" about it? Because then they'd just get to write scenes like that and get off to them under the radar and behind the curtain. I guarantee you that before the internet, people were into all kinds of crazy stuff and it flew under the radar when they wrote it into their stories. How do you know that splatterfest authors writing horror are actually writing horror? How do you know they're not kinksters into gore? You don't unless they tell you. So is it bad for them to be into it or is it bad for them to tell you? I promise you that you are probably a fan of a show where a kinkster worked on something behind the scenes and wrote something profound that you enjoyed that you would be scandalized about if you discovered that it was a kink. If Little Red Ridinghood is a good story that teaches morals to kids when Red getting eaten is a horror trope about the consequences of talking to strangers and getting distracted from your work... then it should be a good story whether or not you eventually find out that the guy that wrote it was into vore or furries or whatever else. Creators having "bad taste" when it comes to what they like or even get off to in fiction has very little to do with whether the fiction they create is good or not. Again, I'm sure that creators you enjoy are secretly into things that would make you vomit if you knew about them. If it's bad for the creator to be open about it, then the problem is the internet culture's insistence on oversharing and forcing creators to overshare. If the problem is just being into weird things then I'm sorry to tell you this but half the people at Disney, or more, probably draw furry incest porn in their free time. Humans as a species are weird degenerate kinksters that fantasize about all the weird things under the sun. Personally, as long as they aren't actively going out of their way to hurt people in real life, then I think it's better to just ignore what people like in fiction, because 99% of the time it isn't in any way a reflection of what they enjoy in real life or what they want to happen or what they think is good and moral. After all, isn't the whole appeal of feet that they're considered a dirty part of the body and it's taboo to find them attractive? Humans have always been into the horrific, depraved, dirty, taboo things. The only difference now is that we know about and categorize these fascinations now and call half of them degenerate even though most of these tropes have existed in fiction since the ancient Sumerians and the Epic of Gilgamesh. I'm so tired of people policing thought crimes. Did the non-con fetishist hurt anybody in real life or not? If they did, talk about that instead. If they didn't, then keep the non-con kink-shaming out of the discussion until they do something where that's relevant. I swear to god, we are 2 steps away from shaming people for being into ass instead of tits because "the ass is filthy! Why would you ever like that! You must be into 2 Girls 1 Cup if you enjoy ass so much! Filthy degenerate! Let me doxx you!" Stop parading peoples' kinks around like they're sins in and of themselves. Everyone is into something that someone else would find degenerate. We were all born in the mud. We are all animals. I am so tired of the cringe du jour being trotted out as evidence that some other human that I have never met is cringe and bad. Show me real crimes or at least explain why you think the cringe du jour is actually evidence of secret evil. Gesturing vaguely at imagined wrongdoing is so goddamn boring. Humans in general are disgusting. I have embraced that. Either join the party or give me a reason to find something that's disgusting actually objectionable beyond just "it's disgusting." Green bell peppers are disgusting too. Doesn't mean we make them illegal.

[@thefirecenter9624]

This is a reply a full 2 months later from the timestamp, but I agree with you. This is why I don't like all the stuff with shipping/fandom discourse getting mixed up in actual criticisms about viv and what she does and how she behaves. I really tbh think people need to be, on a whole on the fucking internet and not even just with viv, focusing on the things people do that *actually hurt other people* and not just what gives them the "ick" reaction. I say this for proship/antiship discourse. I say this for all forms of fandom discourse that are related to fiction and fictional concepts. Doesn't matter if it's "romanticized" or "glamorized" or not. Mainly because those specific words are used to hell and back for anything someone thinks leans a little too hard into uncomfortable for them. The focus should be on the fact that Viv has stepped on people and had behaviors that hurt other individuals. It shouldn't be on some random staff member she hired who just happens to be into non-con in fiction (and may or may not have a CNC kink that people really don't need to know about) writing the non-con scene(s) in Hazbin during the official release. Tbh nothing should be on someone's fictional interests because then we lean into "well if you like this you're bad" which isolates and alienates and makes people feel guilty for liking taboo things even though they don't do anything to harm other people. Before some weirdo makes a weirdly gross exception for something that is still in the realm of fiction and isn't involving the harm of another person, yes, this statement includes stuff like lolisho content. It's taboo. I find it uncomfy, instead of spending hours waxing on and on about how it makes me dislike other people or how it makes someone possibly be something that needs to involve the exploitation and harm of another living breathing person, I block and filter it out of my feeds and move on. People keying into the idea of this is bad and awful and uncomfortable and using it to justify hate is honestly the reason we have so many stupid people in the world. Also, "This is bad" is usually what people mean when they use the phrase "it's weird" on the internet in fandom nowadays. So no people on any site don't get to hide behind the "well it's weird and makes YOU weird if you like it" statements because we all know what people who say this actually mean. Do I get why it's talked about in a video meant to state all the various reasons viv is hated by the internet? Yeah. Do I like how it was handled? I'd just like to repeat, I agree with your comment OP. Plus honestly straight up I do not like the way Oranges handles the things involving more uncomfortable or darker topics. It feels vaguely like Oranges is trying to signal to the people who would harass him for having even slightly nuanced opinions or going "who cares it's fiction" that he's not someone who is a harassment target. Even as he addresses why some of it is god damn stupid.

[@l.francesca4780]

@thefirecenter9624 Exactly. All bringing in irrelevant things like kinks does is weaken the actual argument by making any "whistleblower" look like they're crying wolf. You're allowed to call out bad people without putting their kink on display and it’s better for their argument when they do. You're allowed to get the ick from something without that something being bad or harmful. If something just gives you the ick, you are allowed to put it down and walk away. You are not the police or detectives. It is not the mob's job to play police and "uncover" the bad guys. Conversely if you stumble across, like, actual concerns, not just things you *think* are concerns, send that to local authorities. (Do not do this to SWAT people and do not do this with no evidence. At best you waste time on trying to get non criminals arrested. More likely you take resources away from victims that actually need help, and at worst you get someone shot for being creepy but harmless.) I cannot stress enough that the normal and default response should be to block anyone that gives you the ick but otherwise mind your own business. Cops are already awful, fallible law enforcement, but I trust the mob even less.

[@Cosmicfear101]

holy guacamole someone's a keyboard warrior

[@glorifiedcouch648]

Now hold on, this man is cooking

[@Gogoroth2]

Agree. When people say he's "Into non-con" we don't know if that means anything more than he enjoys watching porn actors pretend they aren't into the sex they agreed to. It says nothing about his morals. Fiction is completely separate. All things being equal, him being into non-con probably meant that he was more willing to show things that most other artists would only allude to. It made the scene hit a lot harder. That scene made me more uncomfortable than I remember Law & Order SVU ever making me.

[@Molotov_Milkshake]

14:00 you're right, that is pretty crazy. I mean look at The Venture Bros, which is easily one of the best animated shows of all time. And YET, they had a paedophile character in that and portrayed him as having and struggling with a mental illness and eventually getting therapy and having a redemption arc, somehow becoming a sympathetic and likeable character because he does everything he can to overcome the sickness he's stuck with, which is actually wild. Totally unexpected for an animated comedy show to take such an unheard-of approach to such subject matter. Of course it does not in any way make the creators of that show a bunch of nonces to have depicted such a character in their show. That's like saying Rockstar are racist for portraying racist characters in RDR or GTA, or characters who are monstrous killers, rapists etc. Yet you never see anyone throwing such allegations around. I think some people are just desperate for any reason to hate someone.

[@Rainkea-fr]

Indie animation = animations not made by a big company but instead a small group of people

[@artistanthony1007]

She made a tweet outright saying people who have issues with writing are meaningless because her name is on the scripts and praised but I cant post the screenshot here or able to link it but what I can provide is she's been on Twitter since 2016 and acts like the hate she's been sent is new to her & with shows known worldwide, she has no excuse acting like all that, she says things like we were gonna get a Millie focused episode while feeling bad she doesnt have one & Hazbin is female focused but straight up lied to us about those two things & others and she's added fuel to the fire, she doesnt hire a PR Manager, she doesnt leave Twitter & stop getting into arguments and she doesnt have a backup account to avoid the negativity & malice, she's now a professional manager, no more a mere KZbinr and needs to act like it as well as an adult.

[@Aural4444]

We've already had a Millie focused episode, idiot And we will have more in the future, because indie animation takes time. And I saw that tweet, and she just said that she'd rather hear positive comments about what she does than hear negative comments, and that's a healthy thing.

[@VeryMadVeryHappy]

Yeah, I can pretty much agree on that. She's usually acting immature on her socials and her fans keep saying that she's this amazing person that should be praised even with all her terrible actions and even her meltdown online. Viv is just so immature and stubborn now.

[@Jdudec367]

Those things she said aren`t lies though, Unhappy Campers and Hazbin Hotel did prove that stuff to be true.

[@KvngLeroy1]

​@@Jdudec367 unhappy campers felt more like a moxxie episode tbh

[@Jdudec367]

@@KvngLeroy1 I mean it was a mix of Millie and Moxxie honestly.

[@wreckitralphfan0017]

I DON'T HATE HER AT ALL

[@ProfSir1]

I love the internet's ongoing desire to believe everything at face value with zero evidence. "I made it the [heck] up" effect.

[@SP_Sour]

3:03 Ironic bc he's not an exception either! He's disowned it and matured, of course, but the EB Halloween Hack isn't exactly clean

[@DefinitelyBoredOranges]

nah I gave him the pass fr /j

[@yellowfuzz292]

Consensual noncon is a very real thing and a common fantasy amongst women in particular. Having fetishes an kinks is a NORMAL part if being a human and when everyone involved is being Safe, Sane, and Consensual there is nothing wrong with it.

[@Birdyboys]

That’s not consensual noncon because Angel dust isn’t consenting to it. And the artist himself stated that it’s a “r*pe ship”.

[@olive92]

@@Birdyboysexactly. As someone who shares that kink, which apparently we have to state now in order to justify criticizing him, it still grosses me out, given the way he spoke about Valentino and Angel Dust, and how he spoke to the fans who came to him with concerns over him being in charge of the scene (mocking them and saying something along the lines of "making more r*pe art to jerk off to" or something, I didn't save the screenshot because i exited the tab immediately, reading his words made me sick.)

[@mosshivenetwork117]

@@Birdyboys They are fictional characters to be fair.

[@addison_v_ertisement1678]

@mosshivenetwork117 Okay. Dio isn't evil, because he's fictional.

[@conormccue2871]

Spare us your degenerate BDSM puritanism. Folks get to dislike people who fantasize about that sort of thing the same way they get to dislike people who fantasize about murdering others.

[@_iarna_]

The thing about the animation pay, is that sure, paying industry rate doesn't deserve any praise. But similarly, it doesn't deserve any hate that's specific to vivzie either. That some creative on the series was into "noncon" in some other context is absolutely silly thing to consider an issue. This is something that a really substantial number of women have fantasies around. (Have you ever heard of "Bodice Rippers"? What did you think those were about? 'cause I've got news for ya...)

[@brawler5760]

Plus, the person they hired that was allegedly a proshipper? They had absolutely no control over the events that played out in episode 4 of HH.

[@clockworkanarchy]

As I've learned in my Advanced Creative Writing class, the most common part where you can go wrong as a writer is not being able to take critique. You don't have to accept every single criticism, granted, but in every situation where you show your work to a public audience or even a workshopping group, you will have to accept that your writing is not perfect, especially on first draft. Vivzie's behavior on Twitter --- and honestly, the tone her show sets --- really suggests that she's the kind of person who won't take suggestions even on first draft. If any changes or retcons are made, it's because she wanted a new idea that's just a different flavor of poorly thought-out. I can't say all that for sure, because I'm very obviously not someone who knows or interacts with her, but just from everything I've heard and seen she's extremely immature and doesn't know how to handle the one thing that's so important in improving your writing and yourself as a whole.

[@Skelet0nCatBlake]

There's always this crazy line between an artist and their art that has always existed. I love Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss and recognize that my sense of humor is either "very educated and 'smart' humor", or "haha he said the word 'bitch'". Are they revolutionary shows? No. Is it a crime to like them? No! The best way to handle it is to: 1. Don't feel bad if you like something that other people don't like or consider to be 'bad'. We're allowed to like what we like and be cringe sometimes. It's ok. Love what you love. 2. It's ok if you like someone's 'art', but don't like the person behind it. Look at Harry Potter, for example. Boycotting their art isn't going to make them less money, and it'll drain your own soul. 3. I'm not saying bootleg and steal shows. Don't do that. But there are so many places to get merch, find other fans, and enjoy a fandom without largely contributing to the creator personally. 4. The world sucks and everything is corrupt. Just do and be your best.

[@blueberrypitbull87]

The show has fans who are minors. They should not be watching it or cosplaying it. It is for adults ONLY. It is strictly 18+. Minors are going to be ruining it for adults. Because when minors like something for adults, the adults get blamed instead of parents doing their jobs.

[@Regular_Decorated_Emergency]

There is no question of "should" or "should not". Individual maturity varies, and the age of majority varies between different countries (not every country is 18+). And when minors act dumb, their parents aren't necessarily the ones to blame.

[@DezAmmySel]

The controversy surrounding Vivzie genuinely almost stopped me from ever seeing the show. I may be glad it didn't, but that doesn't mean I think she's perfect or that she was right to do some of the things she did. But, honestly? I want to see where her show goes. An animated series for adults, with cursing and gore and sex... THAT does not happen often. Honestly it almost doesn't happen at all on mainstream television. This is a huge opportunity for animation to start FINALLY being acknowledged as more than just "children's cartoons". Yes, I know there have been adult animations in the past. I watch anime. I watch hentai. _I get it._ But even with all that, most people still consider animation as childish. That needs to change, and I think Hazbin may just be the catalyst for that change. I also just genuinely love the characters, the art, the themes... Like Charlie, I want to believe that people can change. I want to believe that they deserve a shot at their dreams. I want to believe she can change for the better, realize she's done wrong and come back to apologize. I have hope that through the journey of bringing her show to life, she will change and learn and grow to be better. Unlearning the awful shit you've had ingrained into you takes time (and often, therapy), so I'm gonna withhold judgement until the curtain falls.

[@MintyTealPheonix]

i love how this vid has like some of the most neutral/though through views on the vivziepop drama. i was a bit skeptical in the beginning but ho boy are you right where you need to be! keep doing as you do, gonna throw a sub your way. cheers! edit: oh and the fact that you can own up to your mistakes, thats all i ever wish for in a creator! lets go!

[@DRCx_]

"Unless your name is Toby Fox-" I'm gonna stop you right there with a couple words. Mother Halloween Hack

[@astarteswillum5259]

I didn't get far into it so I don't know the drama around that.

[@Weidelsburger]

Animation is a medium, not a genre

[@daveprime7278]

i think the video should be ever quieter

[@DefinitelyBoredOranges]

next video gonna be -12db instead

[@JasmineTea127]

I'm going to become an animator. I'm working my butt off to get my art skills to professional standards. I dread the wages I'll get as an animator because my burning passion makes me want to go into the industry. And the worst part is you're lucky to even get into the industry.

[@youseenednedisdead]

i'm excited to see what you'll do

[@SunsetEnvy]

The videos are great but the voice audio is always super quiet and when I turn up the sound to hear what is being said and then an ad suddenly plays resulting in my eardrums exploding and bleeding 😔 Is it possible to make it a little bit louder? I feel like people sensitive to sound might also have issues with it.

[@Amiyuu0]

i was scrolling like crazy to see if someone had commented abt this thank youuu

[@cirquedutournesol]

As someone who has had a little teeny amount of fame at one point, the out of pocket things people do when you have a little fame is fucking creepy and wild. I'm not really siding with Viv like at all but as someone who is also trying to limit online access for better mental health, she would benefit from doing the same.