The Ethics Of Star Wars

Or, How To Build A Progressive Skinsuit: A User's Guide To Subverting IPs For Political Gain
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#StarWars

[@latt.qcd9221]

The "let the past die" message is one of the reasons I disliked The Wind Waker as a kid, and especially hated the ending. I've always despised the, "It's time for the old geezers to pass the torch to the new hip young people for them to chart their own future and to let go of the past" messages in media.

[@ShortFatOtaku]

wind waker did it well though lol. the difference is, wind waker had something to replace the past with. the last jedi did not.

[@yrooxrksvi7142]

Thing is, new young people have to EARN the torch to make it wholesome and flowing as a narrative. TLJ failed to provide anything new that's meaningful : Rey is special because she (was) nobody, Light and Dark in constant fight with each other is the new "balance", respect -wahmen- authority, even when they don't make sense or act counterproductively.

[@adud6764]

I also dislike this. I have a tendency to always be interested in the background information. People seem to hate it but I really love flashbacks for example, especially when they include unknown characters. And for Wind Waker or the OG Star Wars, I wanted to experience the "old" things. Let me walk around underwater hyrule. Show me what Jedi actually were like. What was Vader like before he was a robot? So the message of "let the old die" kinda sucks there ...

[@GELTONZ]

@@adud6764 Yeah it always rubbed me the wrong way too and the way you put it there made me realize why: I'm a game historian. I obsess over history and minutia so OF COURSE the idea of destroying the past gets under my skin!

[@TheGreenKnight500]

The major difference is that in Wind Waker, the old world is already destroyed. The young kids are the only ones who can continue anything. The old king is a ghost and his kingdom is underwater. The game also doesn't spend all of its time shitting all over the previous games. If they had the Link from OOT still hanging around he he's just some washed up loser who's given up on all his values just to make new characters look good, then maybe I'd see the comparison. LoZ games also jump around in the timeline all the time, so previous games are often legends of the past anyway.

[@Le-cp9tr]

The original Star Wars felt like a Mythos. The Disney films feel like a grift

[@isaackane4931]

I'd say one part grift and two parts agenda. A little bit of ego mixed in as well. JarJar had a grift, poaching from the OT and parading out "mystery boxes" to bait audience reactions, while being a yes-man for anything KKKennedy wanted in her "Force is Female" rhetoric. Dick Ruin had ego, wanting to shove his own ideas into a story no matter how badly they meshed together, thinking he was better and smarter than everyone else and actively giving a middle finger to anyone that had investment in the OT or even ST.

[@yrooxrksvi7142]

And that's why I love the old Dark Horse's Republic and Legacy comics. John Ostrander understood the fundamental level at the core of Star Wars is an update of the ancient Greek myths, thus giving us great characters like Quinlan Vos or Cade Skywalker. Even something considered (wrongly) "lowbrow power fantasy" like The Force Unleashed did it right through Starkiller's redemption from Sith assassin to Jedi and founder of the Rebellion.

[@Liberty_or_Ded]

Things do indeed often feel like what they are.

[@canisblack]

So hot take - because I just remembered they existed - the old Ewok movies were head and shoulders above the sequels.

[@redman9493]

@@canisblack I haven't seen those Ewok movies since I was a kid. The funny thing is I remember watching them on the Disney channel.

[@realsgtstupid]

Honestly I think the only real theme in Disney's trilogy is the dangers of not having a plan before making 3 movies with 3 different directors

[@bruhdabones]

How’d you get to 3 directors? What the hell kind of math is that?

[@robertbeisert3315]

My understanding is that they had an idea of a plan, but JJ changed some of it. Then Rian changed more of it. And then when JJ came back in, he changed even more of it. And KK signed off on all of it.

[@realsgtstupid]

@@bruhdabones the first one was abbrams. The second was Rian Johnson. Third was originally Colin Trevorrow.

[@ragnarok7976]

"bad things bad, women gud"

[@bruhdabones]

@@realsgtstupid well his name isn’t on the credits, now is it? So it’s 2. You said they made 3 movies with 3 directors, and now you’ve said that’s just what they intended to do-not what happened. Be honest and correct this mistake. If you meant to talk about their plan, just say it instead of claiming that each movie was actually made by a different director 🤡

[@perforongo9078]

How the Jedi dressed made sense to me. They were supposed to dress humbly, which actually made them blend in better on the more poor outer rim planets. That worked well for Obi-Wan trying to blend in there, but ironically, they actually stood out more on the interior planet of Coruscant where they were headquartered.

[@DannySmith-]

As much as people like to Rag on George Lucas and his mistakes, he did craft a good story. StarWars is still something that speaks to our hearts, yes even the prequels. The disney sequels are flat out souless.

[@DannySmith-]

@@priapulida Very true, however I believe everyone can fall prey to such a failing (it just so happens that wokeness is the most glaring example). I think if we stick to our guns and praise good storytelling, then quality will win out. I actually feel like writing a story when I see SFO talk about things like this, to be honest.

[@Kandralla]

I think George just thought he was way better at execution than he actually was. George needed a trusted editor and he either couldn't find that or didn't realize it. Go look for the video "Star wars, saved in the edit" that FreddieW/Rocket Jump did a while ago. Episode 4 was a bunch of good ideas executed badly. Carrie Fischer, his wife at the time Marcia, and Spielberg helped him cut away a lot of overcomplication so the story didn't end up buried underneath a bunch of unnecessary weight. When you see what they cut out you can really see that what we got in the prequels and the subsequent edits is raw George Lucas, fussy and overexplained.

[@DannySmith-]

@@Kandralla I would agree with that actually! Most people point to how during the first trilogy he was working with the team, and that during the prequels a lot of people got starry-eyed and thought he could do no wrong (himself included).

[@bloodysimile4893]

@@Kandralla "Star wars was saved by the edit" is a myth. Check out "Nerdonymus" channels who have entire video breaking down rocket jump blantly lies. George Lucas gotten the right people in the right job, like a good director. Had multiple rewrites and revisions. Which Rocket jump some how forget to mention. Surprise. Surprise. Also Marica wanted to put certain scenes that rocket jump hated with luke running, running somemore, more running. And what movie haven't gone through the edit process? It like you shoot everything you can get, then you go to editing to figure out what scene does and doesn't work. It basic creative writing knowledge. Remember this, George Lucas had the final call what stays and goes, not his editors.

[@Kandralla]

@@bloodysimile4893 is it "wrong" , or is someone butthurt that Lucas has been criticized in any way. Everyone needs an editor, the rocket jump video isn't about Lucas being bad, it's about how modifying the structure of the story can take something that would be mediocre overall and make it shine. And frankly, unless you're claiming that it's wholesale lies the problems with the rough cut of star wars that were addressed are the same problems that make the prequels and some of his edits to TOT mediocre... That being a heavy handed tendency to overexplain stuff to the detriment of the films. I know you haven't watched the video because you point out something they actually did say (he surrounded himself with talented editors) as if they hadn't.

[@bungoboy5718]

Anyone else miss the like 2006-2012 era of Star Wars where the prequels were dead but the Clone Wars was coming out and Star Wars felt more underground and less mainstream? I miss those batshit crazy years where they were actually exploring the universe and trying weird prequel/original mix-up ideas like The Force Unleashed and Death Troopers. Yeah, it didn't always land but at least I didn't have to see Boba Fett Tampons or shit like that.

[@mrROAR104]

Love the clone wars era stuff except TCW as that's actually dogshit on par with the ST

[@culdude1494]

Boba Fett tampons?

[@yrooxrksvi7142]

The Clone Wars Multimedia Project gave us gems like the 2003 microseries, the excellent Republic comics, great novels like Shatterpoint or Labyrinth of Evil. The Legacy comics flunged things 130 years after the OT. KOTOR, SWTOR and the Darth Bane trilogy thousands of years before. The NJO, Legacy of the Force and Fate of The Jedi novels gave us what happened to the OT heroes and their offsprings and new allies. There was something for everyone, and it wasn't always tied down to the Skywalkers without having the need to blabber about it like Disney does.

[@GummiArms]

@@yrooxrksvi7142 There were things I could take or leave about the old expanded universe. In hindsight, I'm glad Disney didn't adopt any of it. I admit to being disappointed around the time that Force Awakens was announced, because the idea of a Rogue Squadron or Thrawn Trilogy movie was oh so tempting. But I was wrong. I had no idea how twisted the people in charge of the franchise were. Can you imagine what kind of unholy abomination Kathleen Kennedy would have made Mara Jade into?

[@yrooxrksvi7142]

@@GummiArms Too bad they did. They screwed Thrawn, watered down Tython, Ossus and Malachor into bland meaningless locations. The Inquisitors were once feared Sith-like powerful Dark Jedi, now they're pitiful fodder. They still handpick and ruin elements from the EU to this day. I lost interest entirely after watching TFA a second time at the theater. There are some exceptions like Rogue One and Jedi Fallen Order, but they're too far and few in-between and they still are average compared to older content. If they could have the Millennium Falcon be inhabitated by a Karen droid, then yeah, I can imagine what they could have done to Mara....

[@Mathmachine]

"Good, good, let the hate flow through you." - a phrase that gets more and more accurate with each new Star Wars release

[@robertortiz-wilson1588]

True unfortunately

[@yrooxrksvi7142]

My personal favorite and the one I live by regarding Disney Star Wars : "Apathy is death."

[@tyo9954]

The fan base gets more demented the further you go

[@t.k.5844]

@@yrooxrksvi7142 Kriea/Darth Traya was an example of excellent characterization. Both a wise mentor you respected and terrible villain you both sympathized with and despised at the same time. So many of her quotes get more and more relevant as time goes by.

[@redman9493]

Star Wars now just makes me think of what Henry Jones said to his son: "Indiana, let it go."

[@StickNik]

The only thing I'd argue against is the sombreness of the Jedi being instrumental to the prequels premise. It shows how too much detachment and arrogance can fail, how they failed to teach Anakin, and how despite their power they were wiped out by the Empire they were blind to. Otherwise excellent video.

[@mpnuorva]

The fact you think the Jedi are arrogant is a perfect example of how completely the EU changed their characterization. Detatchment is antithetical to arrogance, because pride and arrogance are just a form of attachment. It's the mean virtue between attachment and nihilism. The Jedi weren't arrogant, just disconnected from those outside their rules, and therefore could not understand the evil eating the republic from within, or why Anakin didn't just put away his attachments like he should have. As Dave Filoni once put it, they were too focused on the big picture and maintaining the political structure of the Republic to notice that structure was actively subverted and corrupted by those who do not live by the Jedi rules.

[@emiljosefsson9149]

@@mpnuorva So the Jedi where the centrists being useful idiots to Marxist subversives without knowing it?

[@yrooxrksvi7142]

The Jedi weren't arrogant (most of them at least), they were just complacent with a failed regime.

[@XaldirGodofGood]

@@mpnuorva THANK YOU! Finally someone gets it, I can't believe how often I have argued with People and their Stupid "The Jedi were the actual bad Guys" Opinions

[@StickNik]

Yoda was not arrogant, probably complacent or ill prepared by the relatively peaceful times he lived through. Complacent is probably a nicer broad term, but whether it be the early incompetence of Jedi's thrust into the role of generals, or scenarios in the 3D clone wars where they fail Ashoka or simply Mace Windu deciding to walk in and arrest Palpatine, I'd argue there's enough arrogance shown with the Jedi's attachment to their roles and systems that was instrumental to their failure. When I use the word "arrogant," I use it like the definition "having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities," and the Jedi were in crucial instances too confident in their abilities to control things, sense the Sith in Phantom Menace, etc. This isn't to say that Jedi are irredeemably flawed, bad guys, or anything so extreme. It would've been great if they stopped Palpatine earlier, but they were flawed, and arrogance played a role in their downfall, although it is more obvious characteristic of Anakin above all.

[@TWRehab]

Criticising Lucas for the prequels is valid, but the Disney films highlight how hard it is, even with an unlimited budget and massive support, just to make a decent movie and Lucas did that.

[@markomujovic4679]

My condolences, Dev, for your 2 hour special that got claimed...

[@SergioLeonardoCornejo]

Star Wars had principles, but that's contrary to the Disney formula.

[@General-Grievance]

Honestly, the most attractive thing about any "centralized system", as you put it, I prefer calling it hierarchical, but I digress, is that those being governed actually understand where power lies. This might be an American perspective, considering we have the theoretical 2A reset card, but the realistic issue in playing that card is knowing who or what is the actual center of power, which would be target of forced dissolvent. In the old days, if King Bob trampled the rights of the citizenry, it wasn't a completely impossible task to eliminate King Bob and install King Fred. But when dealing with bureaucracies and systems and systems within bureaucracies and bureaucracies within systems, where is the actual recourse to be found when agency X starts acting tyrannical?

[@chad_bro_chill]

Unfortunately, the answer is Balkanization, as each individual state (or whatever) would be more able to secure their own liberty or, if they failed, minimize their direct impact on the rest. Not the answer anyone wants to hear, but it's something that has happened many times over the course of history, from Alexander the Great's empire to Ancient Rome to the Holy Roman Empire, and that's just some European examples.

[@TheLurker1647]

It's a hellish dystopia you live in when you can yell "sic semper tyrannis!" and put a hole in a man's head, and the next day the same empty suit can walk into parliament and vote for the same policies that forced your hand to the trigger. A decent argument for vesting all power in a single dictator, even if he be malevolent, is that he can't be everywhere at once.

[@debanydoombringer1385]

Except it wasn't usually the citizenry that displaced the leader. It was an invading force or his/her own kin. You've created an alternate reality to the true history and romanticized it. The citizens were nothing more than a labor force to keep the leadership comfortable. Even when rebellion did occur from the citizens, it created a power vacuum that caused the different factions to turn against each other once the main powerless removed. Creating years of war and suffering until one group finally comes out on top. Most revolutions weren't like the US one. Decentralization of power keeps that from happening because the power is spread equally so no one group can exert total control over the others.

[@debanydoombringer1385]

@@chad_bro_chill The US is actually already set up like that. The states have far more power over the everyday citizen than the federal government. That's why they are set up as more of a direct democracy type government. It's much easier for the people to put forth their own laws and have them go into effect. People are free to move to any state they wish that better reflects what they want. Over the last several Presidents, the federal government has secured more and more power and taken it away from the state. Combine that with a poorly educated group on how our system is supposed to work who want to force their beliefs on everyone else and you've got the current problems the US is facing. A small portion of the population wants authoritarianism and the rest don't.

[@viljamtheninja]

@@TheLurker1647 So just out of curiosity, what was it that gave you the opportunity to develop these ideas? Was it perhaps a decent education and the ability to express your thoughts (relatively) freely with your peers? Y'know, stuff you most likely wouldn't be able to do in a dictatorship?

[@blzzz]

Scenes happen because they must happen to reach the next scene. This is exactly what I have been noticing so often recently. It's like they are forcing a narrative with out a story behind it.

[@thomaslacroix6011]

While talking about the Thor series with a friend, I realized they have a good grasp of the superficial aesthetics of the epic/meaningful scene, but they have no understanding of how to build up to it so that those scenes have weight.

[@sdfabctr]

@@thomaslacroix6011 I've been watching the original gundam anime from the 80s and one thing i'm noticing is both how the drama is more subdued and by extension more realistic and how though it's filled with cliches it implements them sensibly and in line with character motivations. I think one of the things I most noticed about the series was how they depict the zeon soldiers as generally evil as an organization but overall very human, there's a great scene where the zeons are invading the white base and a soldier plants a plastique on the window only to see one of the small children on board the ship and he actively warns and tries to help the non combatant get away from the window, most modern stories would see that scenario as an opportunity to show how evil the villains are but this is humanizing and makes the drama much more believable. The characters are simple but they act believably in a way that many modern shows can't implement. Even the leader of the zeon empire isn't depicted as particularly evil but merely a sad father when he learns of the death of his youngest son.

[@thomaslacroix6011]

@@sdfabctr And then when I look back at star wars, I can't believe how much they've missed the mark with Finn. They wanted a turncoat stormtrooper and still did everything to make that aspect of his character as uninteresting as possible. There was a real opportunity to explore what makes people join the first order/empire, how he has to live with the sins of his past, but no he's a freaking janitor who has absolutely no qualms shooting his former comrades.

[@spacejunk2186]

They watched good movies, failed to understand them, and started to construct movies around visuals and lines that seem cool to them.

[@monkeyinapanzer]

One of the most interesting things about the prequels and the expanded universe around the era is the statement of politics and political change with both the republic and the CIS. If you pay attention the republic is already on its way to becoming a dictatorship without Palpatine, he just happened to capitalize on it. The republic actively ignores any concern beyond the wealthy core worlds, the republic used the Jedi like political enforcers acting with a bias in its own favor, and the republic had zero desire to even consider the concerns of the worlds that did wish to break away beyond throwing an army at it. While on the other hand the separatist are a populous movement created organically by a disillusioned member of the Jedi order and worlds who’s peoples are tired of being ignored and disregarded. The tragedy of the CIS is that it was so willing to push back it sold its soul to wealthy cooperations who in turn where short sighted morons making deals with the devil for higher profit margins. One faction is the tragedy of a once great society throwing away its old accomplishments as it engages in a careless slide into authoritarianism while the other is the tragedy of populism being perverted against the will of the oppressed for shortsighted personal and corporate benefit.

[@orrorsaness5942]

This

[@willmungas8964]

These ideas are all great, l just wish more people liked them for themself without acting like the prequels are either brilliant or awful. They are mediocre movies with poor execution getting in the way of some genuinely interesting ideas. I wish the discourse around this wasn’t so toxic either way. It’s possible to like them without worshipping, and it’s possible to dislike them without hating. I think a lot of people can agree that Lucas had at the very least new and interesting ideas going into the prequels, and that with refinement and focus they could have been brought to the screen much better.

[@monkeyinapanzer]

@@willmungas8964 I always felt the best part of the prequels is the fact the movies have such huge gaps in between them allowing for countless writers and authors to fill in those gaps and to explore some of the rushed or awkward concepts from them. The biggest testament to that is probably how popular the period of the clone wars is despite attack of the clones being a boring slog and revenge of the sith giving us only a taste of what the war was like. Doesn’t mean the movies themselves are great, but they did serve as a good base to build off.

[@alistareapalex983]

Good catch

[@kingsadvisor18]

This. One thing that I love about the original back story of General Grievous is that he is the way he is because of the failure of the Jedi and the Republic. A major corporation was destroying a planet occupied by a Bronze Age level civilization but one noble leader fought back hard enough that the corporation's lobbyists asked for Republic help and the Jedi came to clean house. This warlord eventually becomes General Grievous through the intervention of Count Duku. The CIS most successful general and the one being in the history of the galaxy who rivals Darth Vader in Jedi killing only came to be because of the failure of the Republic and disconnect of the Jedi. (At least this is Comic book Grievous, not Clone Wars)

[@yrooxrksvi7142]

Too many throw shade at the old Expanded Universe aimlessly, but the best stories, such as the Republic and Legacy comics by Dark Horse, many Prequel era novels centered on Darth Maul or notable cases like Labyrinth of Evil and Shatterpoint, the NJO and Legacy of the Force books, the Darth Bane trilogy, the Thrawn trilogy, the KOTOR and SWTOR games, comics and novels, the first Force Unleashed and so forth showed that Star Wars worked like an updated version of Ancient Graeco-Roman myths. And many of these stories didn't always feature the Skywalkers or the OT heroes yet could stand on their own, confident in their lore and characters. Whereas Disney has to claim outloud they're "moving away" from the Skywalker family, while failing to do so and to provide new memorable characters or places.

[@orrorsaness5942]

Lol the irony of Disney.

[@yrooxrksvi7142]

@@orrorsaness5942 Yep, and it keeps getting worse each year

[@Grymbaldknight]

The prequels were not perfect films, but I do think they were masterpieces in spite of their flaws. Both in terms of the underlying narrative themes and the superficial vistas, the prequels were extremely rich and complex. The plot holes and stiff dialogue do not detract from the fact that the film's do, fundamentally, have an incredible story to tell.

[@conserva-chan2735]

Revenge of the Sith is a classic

[@papapalps2415]

This really does neatly summarize how the modern generation that grew up with the prequels and nowadays dominates the Internet thinks, doesn't it? Its a perfect encapsulation of that sort of broader, blind fanboy mindset of 'the execution doesn't matter, just MUH THEMES', like as if 'underlying narrative themes' trump plot holes and stiff (or, rather, less politely put, shit) dialogue, or any of the number of other flaws that kneecap the prequels, to any sane or non-deluded person. And then people such as yourself have the sheer gall to call movies that 'w-well, they fUnDaMenTalLy teLL a GOoD sTOrY' a fucking masterpiece. Like as if a masterpiece is solely defined by how much of the movie happens in your head, and not that beautiful, beautiful combination of excellent fundamentals AND execution, not 'just' one or the other that actually consistutes a masterpiece. So long as it makes your pee-pee go ZOOOOMMM, amirite? Don't worry, though. You'll get to go through the same bizarre feeling of watching the world change in a couple of decades when the people that grew up on the sequels, in turn, replace you, and you, too, will be in my place now. History repeats, as always.

[@konstancemakjaveli]

@@papapalps2415 lackuster execution? The original triliogy had the same flaws, just with less technology. The CGI of sequels are unparalleled to this day, the action scenes are some of the best in the whole cinema industry, story telling blows LotR away, sound work and soundtrack are extremely iconic and everyone recognizes it. Themes? Its not just themes you rusty old invalid. Its objectively an improvement to the old celulose roll film of yestercentury

[@papapalps2415]

@@konstancemakjaveli Thats nice sweetie.

[@greatness1112]

@@papapalps2415 I mean it's fine that people like the prequels now. Same thing with the sequels too. My problem is how theres a cult of them who act like their vision of Star Wars is all that matters than they crap on the original and new fans. The Lucas cult prequel fans section of the fanbase is mostly all annoying and they are so inconsistent with their criticisms on Star Wars it's hysterical. It's funny how set they are on the prequels being masterpieces and how original fans are just "haters" lmao. I guess this is what happens when theres a fanbase with multiple generations of fans but it's insane how much they have taken over the internet the past couple of years. I honestly did not know they existed cause I have not met many prequel fans outside of the internet and it was just widely accepted amongst my generation of Star Wars fans that the prequels suck and same thing with the sequels now too.

[@fakeorchestra4260]

I disagree that Palpatine's rhetoric would be popular among libertarians. If anything, I think "Strong leader" is completely against the idea of libertarian politics. When libertarians talk about shrinking the state, it is not just the shrinking of buerocracy that they are for, but also cutting the lifeline of the state so that it cannot function with the same power. That's why libertarians are so insistent on lessening taxes or removing them outright. Less taxes is equal to the state having less actual resources to work with. Also you don't really understand the reason why the Jedi were cultish in the prequels, it's not just something that was enforced by the OT. It brings a contrast between the ways of the Jedi which were too stiff and too cold, and the behaviour of Luke who reforms the order into something far more human.

[@acctsys]

Maybe I'm nitpicking here, but in the divide that is between ancap and limited government, I'm on the side of limited government--limited in scope and funding, but strong and quick in its focused work.

[@H250V]

God...listening to this and how it was being destroyed as I saw it...it hurt me. I loved this series...it was bloody cool and even if the politics where complex for my age, it felt coherent that they tried to explain the issues (something that I don't think the new Lego game even tries to cover because it's basically telling an abridged retelling of the stories with their own sense of humor), because the beaurocracy and political climate of the Prequels is important to the whole picture. I really despise everything post George Lucas selling his baby. These people show no respect and I feel even the people who say "Star Wars was always bad" are just disingenouos a holes who don't want to admit that someone went and ruined their baby and they want to seem better than everyone else....it bites man. (Also, you could say the cloaks are just what a bum/hermit would wear while in the wild, because Jedis are just "missionaries". Maybe they do it because Obi-Wan did it, but at the same time, dude was isolated [I don't count the Kenobi show nor have I seen it], so why would he wear anything else, especially if he was basically in the middle of nowhere? If anything, it's the gi they wear what I would associate more with a Jedi than the Robe; heck, I would also look into their lightsaber as well, since that is the signature weapon of the Jedi.)

[@blakereeves179]

I hate it when people use the excuse that Star Wars was always bad in order to somehow make the new stuff look good. It is a weird doublespeak. The old stuff is bad and the new stuff is just as bad so therefore the new stuff is actually as good

[@BladeTrain3r]

Star Wars was also influenced by samurai films, the robes and sword and wandering style of Jedi are those of ronin rather than missionaries, at least originally. One could call even them knights errant after the fall of the republic.

[@Ladondorf]

This is a minor point but the whole thing about "The Jedi in the prequels are just dressed that way because that's what Obi-Wan wore in hiding" is false and it bugs me whenever it's brought up. Obi-Wan's robes were always intended by the costume designer to be Jedi robes. In Return of the Jedi, Anakin's ghost wears the exact same robes, even in the theatrical version. Yoda's robes are also near-identical. Ben dressing like a Jedi while in hiding is an issue with the Original Trilogy, not with the Prequels.

[@TheGuyWhoIsSitting]

Obi-Wan could just be like "I'm not dressed like a Jedi" to anyone he spoke with.

[@MALICEM12]

This

[@ghostofalltime4934]

@@TheGuyWhoIsSitting Would the average moisture farmer even know what a Jedi looks like? Jedi always seem quite rare despite the films focusing on them.

[@DeadpoolX9]

George Lucas: it’s an old story told for a new generation because if it’s stuck around this long then it must MEAN something. The Last Jedi: let the past die. I swear nihilism is wasted on most of this generation

[@JejjyGoodboy]

I have a confession to make: I watched MovieBob for about a decade. When he reviewed Cuties and got fired from the Escapist twice, I had to jump that ship even though deep down I love that guy. You can't save people who WANT to get worse. I became my own MovieBob for a while, theorizing I needed a replacement... After a lengthy search, it ended up being Dev. You may pronounce manga wrong, but when movies stopped being important to me, I got the channel that's the perfect balance of my temperament towards political/consoomer media. Ily Dev. I'll join the $5 club once I overcome having lived in Califr0nia.

[@darkdwarf007]

comparing anyone to Moviebob is one of the worst insults in the history of insults

[@JejjyGoodboy]

@@darkdwarf007 even worse, I meant it as a compliment

[@GELTONZ]

@@JejjyGoodboy XD For what it's worth, I feel ya'. I used to like MovieBob once upon a time. Basically before he did skits and had a plot for GameOverthinker. Heck there's still a few of his videos I'll defend. Namely "Pink Aisle" and "Blech, Dull Tests".

[@JejjyGoodboy]

@@GELTONZ He had a charm that got stomped out by how defensive he got. I made the comparison because Dev has no problem being a nerd/gamer whatever and Moviebob felt like he had to justify it with a bunch of bs. I'm glad Dev is not like that. In fact, Dev helps motivate my own self esteem when I see him just bein' himself.

[@JejjyGoodboy]

@@zogwort1522 he and dayve both pronounce it "maynga" and it activates my threat neuron

[@als3022]

That ending with the skin suits and the moral bankruptcy that its become is depressing. And I am not even a Star Wars fan. I enjoyed them, but they were just another movie for me. And hearing Mark Hamill talk about it that way is also very sad.

[@grayfiresoul]

It's never just been about state size reduction, then, viola, liberty and prosperity for all, to (L)iberatians. Gutting the state is extremely important, but it's in how you do it, and to which parts you do it to. You don't just reduced the size; you re-engineer the way that a department or agency functions. You re-focus/shift its purpose. No measure or effort truly guarantees a complete absence of tyranny. But, it should be known where tyranny rises, how it coagulates, and by which modes it most desires to spread its influence.

[@fakeorchestra4260]

That too but you also have to cut off the power of a state by the way of cutting its funding. If you cut a funding to an organisation, obviously it is able to do less, therefore smaller structures of power come in and take its place competing with each other.

[@leonardomoda9559]

The problem with the Republic was never “too many bureaucrats” it was the fact that the Republic itself had too much power over individual star systems. From the perspective of the average Separatist citizen, it didn’t matter whether it was a thousand senators or one chancellor calling the shots, the problem was that they didn’t get to call it for themselves. Decentralizing power doesn’t mean less people choosing, it means having the institution itself have less power

[@CallanElliott]

Dev, Small Government doesn't itself literally mean that the government consists of a small number of people. It means having few laws on the books that only cover the basics. The literal interpretation follows from this because with less laws, regulation and control you need fewer people to carry it out. In the end, you destroy the political power by removing the laws and regulations that give governments their power in the first place.

[@johndaniel7161]

Yeah, dev talks a lot of shit about libertarians lately, but doesn't seem to actually understand much about them.

[@CallanElliott]

@@johndaniel7161 I think he lets his principles get in the way of understanding things at times, or seeing that neutrality isn't always the answer, and sometimes, yes, it is time to just take a fucking side.

[@johndaniel7161]

@@CallanElliott Yeah, I've noticed that too. I call it Tim Pool syndrome.

[@wojak-sensei6424]

Ironically, Anakin and Palp's position of "finding real solutions" is more akin to positions of big governments, not libertarians. They're not actually pushing for the dissolution of centralized government power, rather they just want to focus all of that power on certain issues at a time. They don't oppose totalitarians at all, they just want the right type of tyrants. They're statists, not libertards. Anakin knows full well of it, hence his silence on Padme's inquiry. It's far from a libertarian position to strip the very reason why shit laws don't get passed: the other representatives' (senators, governors, congressmen, etc.) power to disagree with it. I'm no real libertard here, but what does Dev think libertarians actually are?

[@CallanElliott]

@@wojak-sensei6424 As I've said above, Dev is being blinkered by his own 'principles', I think anyway. He's become partisan and blind to alternatives, as well trying to be good faith where it isn't deserved.

[@andrewponder3855]

I think the Jedi appearing cult-like in the prequels was actually on purpose, those movies can be somewhat difficult to parse but I think corruption in the Jedi order was supposed to be a part of the story. We just don't see it too much outside of the stuff Quigon does: fixing dice rolls, attempting to swindle Watto with worthless currency, and trying to train Anakin despite him being too old.

[@GELTONZ]

That's...a thing I've never thought about. You just suddenly made Quigon seem VERY interesting...

[@basteagui]

that's a thing i hadn't considered. they were portrayed a little as the actions of a being with a purpose. like an angel that will just undo any lock. but this is also a valid interpretation of the lore and that makes it a lot more gray

[@ethanhinton4549]

It was part of why Palps was able to win. They were so scared of the sith in the past that they went dogmatic and kneecaps they're connection to the force and thereby their ability to fight the sith in the present.

[@papapalps2415]

@@ethanhinton4549 No.

[@papapalps2415]

"....but I think corruption in the Jedu order was supposed to be a part of the story....fixing dice rolls, attempting to swindle Watto with worthless currency..." Why is the modern generation so utterly, pathologically obsessed with trying to make things that so patently aren't morally ambigous, ambigious? Its such a fascinating disease to watch spread on the Internet and popular culture speaking as somebody who has seen I'd like to think a great many, though obviously nowhere close to all, of the Internets corners. Its always been a thing, of course, but its so amusingly common to observe nowadays. To watch 'tards, such as yourself, unironically try to argue in KZbin comments section that AkShuAllY, the Jedi were meant to be seen as corrupt/evil/LiTerAlLy WorSe tHaN FunNy MuStAchE mAN, because (insert nonsensical/fanfiction/delusionally insane nonsense here). Like here, as I said. As if there was AKSHUALLY a secret plot of the Jedi being EVVVULLLL because....uh, Qui-Gon hedged a dice roll against a fucking slave owner to free a young kid that would save the galaxy. Just positively fascinating.

[@TheDigitalApple]

Seeing the first two “Star Wars” trilogy shows how much of a genius George Lucas was. Now we have Disney.

[@slashbash1347]

I'm not gonna pretend the prequels were good.

[@mysterymastermind175]

Lucas is a good idea man, but he struggles in execution. He needs someone to take his ideas and make them watchable, otherwise we got a lot of the cringey if not funny meme clips from the prequels.

[@kavky]

@@slashbash1347 They were enjoyable.

[@blakereeves179]

@@mysterymastermind175 The prequels are okay. Yes cringe but they still managed to teach lessons that had a through line with each other and the OT in terms of substance and not just superficial connections like Ben is the son of Han and Leia and turns dark bc Luke acts like he never would have? Disney could have made the story about how Ben was under so much pressure to be like his uncle because of everyone around him within the Jedi Academy that he dabbled in the dark side to prove he was worthy of the Skywalker name. (Insert several different versions of the legend. Some emphasize Luke’s sacrifice while some are focused on Luke’s defeat and overpowering of his father) Ben focuses on the latter legend rather than the former even after Luke tells him that is not how it happened, but I part of Kylo wishes that was what occurred because it is easier to gain power and overpower others than gain power and decide not to use it.

[@connoisseurofcookies2047]

I blame Game of Thrones for this recent obsession with 'subverting the audience expectations' but unlike GRRM most authors don't know what that actually means. When something unexpected happens in ASoIaF there is never any doubt as to why it happens but the subversion comes from deviating away from a common trope, particularly the 'Deus ex Machina' trope, or by adding uncertainty. But somehow most authors nowadays think it means arbitrarily confusing the audience which GRRM never does.

[@runnytimtim86none44]

Until the series hits a dead end, because while GRRM may understand the nuances of deconstruction, the mans own ego when it came to trying to build a brand of anti-tolkian hero mythos basically means he can never actually finish his series because that would mean making john snow the hero he was always being set up to be, that would mean reconstructing the mythos he spent decades tearing down to subvert expectations and Georgie boy just doesn't have it in him to do that, maybe he did once, not now. But more than being the guy who became a pillar this deconstructionist age, george also serves as an example of why ultimately it doesn't work even when you have the talent. You cannot keep deconstructing something that has already been deconstructed. You cannot break down a wall that was shattered centuries ago and covered in moss.

[@La0bouchere]

@@runnytimtim86none44 George doesn't have anti-tolkenism as his goal though, it's just that he prefers more realistic morality for characters than traditional fantasy. One of the main things most authors misunderstand about ASoiaF is that the trope breaking and anti-hero's-journey elements are effects of how he writes strong characters, they are never the end goals themselves. Also Jon definitely won't be the hero, since this is telegraphed almost as hard as Danny becoming insane is.

[@connoisseurofcookies2047]

I think the series hitting a dead end is more a product of GRRM's inability to understand the recursive nature of adding in new characters and in-world objects. Every time he adds a new character/storyline he has to editorialize and fact-check what came before which over time becomes exponentially more laborious. That and that he's probably become lazy and distracted over time.

[@connoisseurofcookies2047]

@@La0bouchere I agree. I think the subversiveness comes from taking a storyline to its rational conclusion instead of the one dictated by the trope. During Ned's execution or the Red Wedding the reader anticipates a Deus Ex Machina event saving the protagonist because that's what is being set up at the time. Instead they all get killed not because of a shock factor but instead because there is no reasonable escape route for the characters. Although I think even GRRM has acknowledged that as the story starts coming to its conclusion there is no way to avoid establishing a definitive protagonist, plot armour and all included.

[@kingsadvisor18]

The best way I describe successfully 'subverting expectations' is a restaurant analogy. You go to a pizza joint and ask for 2 slices of cheese and a medium drink. The cashier says "I'm sorry, we're out of medium cups, is a large ok?" Then when they give you the food, they give you an extra slice because you tipped. A good twist in story telling is giving MORE than what you ask for. Darth Vader as a character represents the ultimate adversary, the opponent Luke must work to overcome otherwise defeating the Emperor would have no emotional payoff. When it is revealed that Vader is Luke's father, it only cements that overcoming him proves that Luke has grown. Lucas gave us MORE to the emotional foundation of this battle, THAT is why that twist works. Film makers like Ryan Johnson, they give you chicken strips and weird smelling ranch when you ask and pay for a burger, demand you eat it and act as if they're a genius for surprising you.

[@Zenweaponry]

I hope you can get the Kenobi review out soon. I was about to watch the premier when KZbin copyright yeeted it off.

[@flazzorb]

A good term for the original trilogy and prequals is "Science Fantasy".

[@sergeant_chris6209]

Or Space Opera

[@slashbash1347]

Yes. People need to stop calling to sci-fi. Sci-fi doesn't have sword fights, ghosts, ancient prophecies, and magic.

[@Zetact_]

@@slashbash1347 Star Wars is definitely fantasy but you really could do all of those in a sci-fi story, but it would require more of an effort to make it feel like a sci-fi element rather than a fantasy one. Sword fights is easy, you make technology that necessitates them. Say, characters have force field generators that deflect all ranged attacks but for some tech reason they aren't blocked by melee weapons. Let's say it's a magnetism barrier that is more effective the more distance is between the targets - like a bullet fired from 10 meters away would slow down to the point it can't penetrate the skin but will crack a rib but if you step back to 20 meters the bullet will damage you more like if someone threw a water bottle at you. With this magnet barrier, since it gets more effective the farther away you are from the target, people who intend on fighting to the death need to get in close, the closer the better. Ghosts? Electronic life forms, memories that got encoded onto a computer system of some kind, that retained a level of sentience. Easy. Ancient prophecies? Time travel. Magic? Any sufficiently advanced technology, as they say. Or if you want something more akin to traditional magic, some form of psychic powers, like special people who have unique brain wave patterns that they can use to directly interface with technology at their own will.

[@flazzorb]

@@Zetact_ Sir what you are doing is making science fantasy. The point science fantasy is that it's fantasy, but there's definitely a scientific/technologic explanation. _"It's not a dragon, it's just a winged lizard"_ But to be more serious, yes it varies a lot on the range of science to fantasy. For example, you might have imagined a _"winged lizard"_ as being vaguely a standard dragon, or you could have imagined a bird with scales, and both could be right.

[@mitchellsahl4555]

I agree that Star Wars is not Science Fiction, but calling it "Science Fantasy" doesn't make any sense. If anything, "Fantasy" should replace the word "Science", not the word "Fiction" (it is still a work of fiction after all). Or just call it Space Opera as others have pointed out.

[@Snakedude4life]

Personally, I just love how the rebels won at the end of the original trilogy and by the beginning of the new trilogy… they have been shown to basically been doing nothing for years. Not even keeping a active military around. Also that we can have the “rebels” aesthetic, again. 🎩 🐍 no step on Snek! 🇺🇸🇭🇰

[@davidfrancisco3502]

The rebels were just the terroristic private armies of the corrupt oligarchs, aristocrats and bureaucrats who used to rule the Republic until Palpatine kicked them out.

[@GummiArms]

It's pretty clear from the writing that the writers had no understanding of the setting, let alone how statesmanship and politics and military matters work.

[@GELTONZ]

This was my number one beef with the new trilogy. I just kept sitting there shouting "EXPLAIN THE FIRST ORDER!" in my mind. Why are they so powerful? Why did the rebels lose after winning? What happened!

[@Spartans1ify]

"It's only a movie" said the man who made his life around movies. If I had to sum up what made Star Wars so disappointing, it's probably that mentality.

[@Emppu_T.]

The sequels could've had a chance with telling a story of Finn, the imperial soldier who disaffected. But they squandered it all with no plan or structure. Great vid D.

[@ZontarDow]

"Sometimes shrinking the state does not shrink its power" Well then you haven't shrunk the state, because the measurement of the size of the state isn't in how many people are working for it or how centralised or decentralised it is, but how much power the state actually has. It's why libertarians advocate for the abolishment of not just positions but the authority that those positions hold because it's rare you'll find a libertarian unaware of this perceived problem with the ideology that doesn't actually exist.

[@Blunthammer]

You wrote what I was about too.

[@SergioLeonardoCornejo]

More like you can shrink it even further.

[@KopperNeoman]

There is also the "shrink the State to the point it can no longer defend itself" problem. The WEF adores those countries.

[@aaronbold8715]

I mostly agree, but the only issue becomes that *someone* will take charge of things. Whether that’s a member of your community, or an ethicist, a soldier or whoever. And that person, in their bubble of influence, may hold too much power to be challenged. This is the problem with Anarchism aswell. You can destroy the institutions, but you can’t prevent viscous gangs from monopolizing weapons and goods if no one can stand up to them.

[@misarthim6538]

@@aaronbold8715 But those vicious gangs already exist and with institutions, you're giving them access to levers of power that makes things easier to them. Fighting wars is costly. Lobbying politicians to fight your wars for you and pay for it with taxpayer money is not. You are afraid of monopolizing power. But that's exactly what state control is. The institutions are the monopoly.

[@mrbigglezworth42]

JJ Abrams will always be a mystery box loving hack who wouldn't be able to tell a straight forward story if you held a gun against his head. The man can't help himself. He just loves his damn boxes. Even when he was tasked with ending the Disney trilogy he still couldn't help himself with tossing in a few mysteries he knew he was never going to answer.

[@t.k.5844]

"The true war, the only war that ever mattered, is not fought with blasters or droids or starships. These are but crude matter. Obstacles against which we test ourselves. The real war is fought within the hearts and minds of men." "The Republic is not what was important, ever. It is but a shell that surrounds the Jedi, just as the teachings of the Jedi are a shell that surrounds the Heart of Man." -Kriea/Darth Traya, Knights of the Old Republic 2 (I'm paraphrasing from memory, so probably not 100% accurate)

[@spacejunk2186]

Best character in Star Wars. "He brought truth and you condemn it? The Arrogance!"

[@RipOffProductionsLLC]

@@spacejunk2186 though to be fair, the "truth" Kriea speaks of in that scene is "fuck the Force(I'mgoing to kill that bitch", it's a bit more complicated then just the Jedi Masters being arrogent and stuck in their ways. Kriea is awesome, just don't forget that she's still evil.

[@araaraaura1887]

@@RipOffProductionsLLC Kreia is the ultimate philosophical anarchist. "The Force has a will and manipulates people and events to enact that will? Kill it."

[@GijsTheDog]

You have to give it to Mark Hamill to stay professional as an actor. He's clearly still very passionate about his character, and despite severe disagreement he just hopes it works out for everybody.

[@GijsTheDog]

@@Timic83tcMy comment is about what I saw in the video.

[@genyatus]

Subverting expectations can work. It can work in Star Wars. Kotor 2 managed to do it and became a cult classic.

[@zackkilgore528]

Will you reupload the Kenobi Review somewhere?

[@reallylionbastard]

Did ut get yeeted off youtube already?

[@zackkilgore528]

@@reallylionbastard As it was premiering in fact

[@zackkilgore528]

@@reallylionbastard that quick!

[@reallylionbastard]

@@zackkilgore528 darth youtube strikes again!

[@conserva-chan2735]

This year will forever be remarkable for the immense and luminous contrast Top Gun's sequel was to every other legacy sequel

[@JamesJJSMilton]

Tom Cruise wouldn't have that shit.

[@als3022]

A large centralized bureaucracy that has been scattered to the four winds can now be shrunk and made local. Your statement that the bureaucracy keeps the decentralization is false. A bureaucracy feeds on itself and gains more power naturally. And expands and creates redundant avenues upon redundant avenues. Anyone who thinks a bureaucracy decentralizes has obviously never worked for one. I worked for 5 years for the Georgia University System. The redundancies in the system made you have to jump through three departments just to figure out where to drop off the time sheets. And every year they added it to "better serve" and it became more unwieldy, corrupt, and inefficient. And the power centralized more not less. No idea where he got the idea that bureaucracy is a protection against centralized power. Ludicrous on the face of it.

[@JohnnyFedora1]

Bureaucracy centralizes power in the bureaucracy - rather than in a single individual. As the bureaucracy expands, each layer it creates is a layer that a single individual would have to corrupt in order to take out the whole system. The contrast is between dictators vs bureaucracies. You do make a fair point, though: when libertarians talk about "decentralizing power", they mean putting power into the hands of individual citizens, and away from a central government - that is, giving people power over as many aspects of their own lives as possible. Dictatorship and bureaucracy are different, but in both cases the ultimate issue is someone else having control over your life. With dictators, one individual has complete and arbitrary control over everything; with bureaucracy, the system has control, and by necessity stops treating people as individuals or caring about individual circumstances/context. Libertarianism (rightly) points out that both systems are equally (if differently) bad, and for the same reason: both curtail your freedom.

[@_Dovar_]

​@@JohnnyFedora1 Totalitarianism without bureaucracy is impossible. The only exception to this rule is an overwhelming technological/military advantage of a smaller group over the rest of the population, which doesn't always work because of cultural reasons. That, and the extraordinary importance of universal possession of military-grade personal weaponry - as exampled by the Second Amendment.

[@MrHobbesandlocke]

A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one

[@lostboi2271]

Based prequel enjoyer

[@TiroDvD]

When I first saw it in theaters, I really enjoyed Attack of the Clones. I had already read some of the Dune books and Wheel of Time. Politics in sci-fi fantasy was understandable to me. "Feint within a feint within a feint." "It's often said that military generals are also good at playing the Great Game [of Houses]." Except for that excessively long chase scene at the start it was an entertaining more political movie for me ending with that Arena Fight. Note that watching the movie I was already forewarned by interviews, trailers, and friends that there wasn't any actual romance but trash filler. So I naturally just blocked off or ignored those scenes while watching; yes even during my first time.

[@prot07ype87]

2:17 Jordan Peterson said it too; *_incorporate and integrate your shadow._* In a word, integrating the shadow by facing the darker aspects of our reality is a process of becoming whole. Only when we confront these elements can we direct or transform them into something positive.

[@SirGrimLockSmithVIII]

God I still think how much of a missed opportunity it was to not flip the power dynamic between the Empire and the Rebel Alliance in the new trilogy seeing how it seems like it would be a more logical progression than the blanket reset of the status quo that we ended up getting. Have the new problems stem from the New Republic trying to govern the galaxy while trying to squash the scrappy remnants of the empire. I feel like there was a lot of interesting stuff you could have done with this new setup that would go beyond catering to nostalgia

[@MALICEM12]

That would have been good but would beg to many difficult questions that they didn't want to answer. The Republic and the Jedi must always be the good guys. The empire can not be sympathetic underdogs who may have had a point. And the two can't be seen doing the same tactics

[@SirGrimLockSmithVIII]

@@MALICEM12 Oh nah the empire is still the bad guy, it'd just be interesting to see the New Republic try and snuff out isolated terrorist attacks from a new position of power. Like, how far will they be willing to go to maintain the new order they fought for for 30 years? You can bring up these interesting moral dilemmas without necessarily making The New Republic the new bad guys and the Empire Remnants the new good guys. Remember, I said the power dynamic flipped, not necessarily the moral positions within the narrative. You can explore how fanatical the leftover remnants are for a dying regime and ideology. You can make the leftover empire sympathetic in this sense without compromising the threat they pose to the New Republic. It'd be like stomping down on Neo Nazi uprisings and realizing there are kids being indoctrinated into this sad life.

[@MALICEM12]

@@SirGrimLockSmithVIII Perhaps, but but hunting down empire dissidents with obvious white identitarian ideology allegories will only show the hypocrisy of the Republic doing what the empire it's self did with the Jedi and rebels. But then again it could speak truth to power and say that ALL orders must do so, but then the Empire doesn't seem quite as evil in hindsight if so. But all the same your premise would still run into "uncomfortable" territory that the media powers aren't going to do.

[@sweetnerevar7030]

Im sorry but the Prequels Clone wars show and concept in general was so fucking banger. I wish they would do like a tacticool high realism war series or movie during the clone wars. That would be dope

[@WisamSafi1978]

“Subvert expectations” Like our combined expectation that those sequels would be good?

[@keithfilibeck2390]

the OG Star Wars movies created a franchise that lasted 40 years, endless comics, video games, spin off material, books, toys, an endless stream of content and products.. and the Disney Trilogy killed it, more or less, or at least cheapened it, took all the mystique and allure of it, brought it down to mortal.

[@Zetact_]

The way that mainstream media has developed their comedy is something that I find particularly interesting. I like me some jokes and some quips but the way it's done nowadays feels really stiff and forced. Like the writers are saying, "This character is funny and our movie is supposed to be funny so we need to throw in a joke here." rather than writing the story as normal and if the writers think, "Oh, I bet that this character might say this here, that's pretty funny." And that it has that odd, almost undefinable but you can tell it is the way it is sort of tone. The sort of MCU style of humor, which is hard to pinpoint what exactly that means but it's very clear when it happens. I think the way I would describe it is that it primarily involves characters who act really blasé? The kind of humor that has characters say lines like, "So, yeah, that's a thing now."

[@jaernihiltheus7817]

It's the kind of humor that characters who *know* they're fictional would make, without being explicitly meta (ie "OF COURSE the Alien is a hot blue woman" or "Well, I guess nobody saw THAT coming"). Like they're in one of those sitcoms with a laugh track... Except they don't stop and wait for the laughter to end. Some of the more charismatic actors like Chris Pratt and RDJ can pull it off, usually, but most actors - or people in general - can't. So it just ends up killing the pacing & tension, while simultaneously being cringe and really forced. It's mostly fine if the scene is supposed to be just the characters hanging out (though modern films constantly make the mistakes of trying to use it during fight scenes and dramatic monologues and such). It's one of those things that works when it's done sparingly, but gets old quick. It's like the action/comedy movie version of a jump scare.

[@davidgusquiloor2665]

Star Wars was the good old story about good vs evil that people needed in the cynical time that it came out. And the prequels was a warning about corruption of ideals and people that came out just as people were having serious doubts with the institutions. Either of those messages could resonate with people currently, but the Disney movies instead gave us the message of "forget about the past" rings hollow, not only because they are using the past to sell their story, but because if anything people are trying to remember the past a lot more than ever.

[@WarZealot]

Y'know, it occurred to me while watching this that while a lot of progressive screenwriters, authors, critics/reviewers love to wax on about "the themes" as a way to cover up or distract from bad storytelling, the Star Wars sequels are really thematically dead. If theme is the element of a story that speaks to a universal human experience (things like overcoming adversity, rising to challenge, etc.), then the sequels simply have nothing to say.

[@AllenLinnenJr]

Disney Star Wars is just boilerplate Disney wearing a Star Wars skin. Yes. If you look closely you will see that Rey is Minnie Mouse, Poe is Micky Mouse, BB8 is Pluto, Finn is Goofy and Kylo Ren, is Donald Duck right down to the tantrums.

[@AllenLinnenJr]

@@zogwort1522 There is a difference between an homage and a reskin... Jar Jar was a homage to Goofy and slapstick comedy. Finn is just reskinned Goofy. There is a difference.

[@flawseeingeye]

not quite as long as the last video that got eaten by "the mouse" but i'll take it.

[@jamesstaggs4160]

Ah yes, treating people with dignity. That's certainly fallen by the wayside. In politics for sure, mostly on the left but not always, but also in people who care nothing for politics. I was a teenager when the whole Biggie/Tupac thing was huge and what they and others like them have helped to create is a throng of people with no concept of treating others with dignity just because they're human. Being a "thug" became aspirational. Being a "player" also, which essentially means someone that plays people by finding a weakness and exploiting it to get what they want, then blame it on the poor sap who trusted them because "Well you let me play you, so it's your fault". I've been railing against that mindset ever since then and it's gotten even worse now.

[@daviddechamplain5718]

One of the arguments for a big rule-making bureaucracy is that it's faster to push rules through than using the slower and messier method of legislation. Dictatorships often have huge bureaucracies.

[@SvendleBerries]

Yeah, bureaucracies make it easier to push things through that the state wants, and makes it easier to stall things that they _dont_ want whilst making it look like they arnt stalling.

[@benjaminmarsh3174]

Great video! I'm sad your premier from the other day was taken down by Disney, I watched all of it when I could, and mightily enjoyed it!

[@cweni]

You absolutley nailed it! Every three trilogies. Exactly how I see it.

[@xEXABYTEx]

This is one of my favorite videos that you have done in a while. Really struck a chord. Star Wars has a soul.

[@RPDpwng15]

Hey i like the "Also Sprach Brooks" in the background. Very classy!

[@jaredbrady5566]

Good upload. Hopefully we can get a version of your Kenobi vid back up.

[@nobafan7515]

Thank you for uploading this!

[@jdraven0890]

One of your best works yet, really nails the point

[@theeightbithero]

This was actually a really good critique of starwars. Very concise as well for the amount of ideas you covered. Very well done. I think you could learn some things about visual filler from other video essayists but I think many of them could learn a thing or two from you about brevity and clarity of an idea. I think most people would have taken three videos to make the same points you made in one. Good on ya. We shall be watching your career with much interest.

[@XanderFenikkusu]

very good video, one of my favorite videos of yours recently

[@InfamyOrDeath-__-]

I was so sick when your video got pulled, I was watching it and got a call and when I went back it was down, KZbin needs to stop being ridiculous and put it back up.

[@AJadedLizard]

6:44 Dev: Palpatine would be super popular with Libertarians. Palpatine: We should have a strong central government with power vested heavily in its chief of state. Are...are you *sure* that's a Libertarian argument?

[@thestorminmormin1442]

Oh hey I remember this! I listened to your whole stream yesterday while at work haha

[@darklordauron]

I thought this was going to be a much larger video with how it was trumped up. But rather you just made it as concise and sharp as possible, a dagger plunged through the heart of the entire thing.

[@ochiamu]

Hopefully this one stays up. No more fair use in 2022

[@addoinatrum4339]

Hey that was really good, thanks.

[@Mandrak0s]

Finally discovered the "So Uncivilized" Channel I see. Good stuff.

[@Rievven]

I think you misunderstand what libertarians mean by shrink the state. Libertarians don't care how many people are government functionaries. Libertarians care about how much power the government wields.

[@ShortFatOtaku]

And generally libertarian prescriptions fail to shrink the power of the state.

[@misarthim6538]

@@ShortFatOtaku I kind of suspect that every single one you have in mind is not really libertarian. But I'll give you one - complete legalisation of drugs, putting them on same status as cheese. Does that shrink the power of the state?

[@ShortFatOtaku]

@@misarthim6538 it very well might, if government has its hands in the regulation and distribution like with cheese!

[@misarthim6538]

@@ShortFatOtaku I actually expected this answer, so I suppose we need to deregulate cheese as well, no? But jokes aside, I don't think it's as easy to justify for example mass surveillance, militarization of police force or draconian prison punishments for mishandling cheese.

[@Rievven]

@@ShortFatOtaku Don't mistake me. I am not a libertarian, but when a libertarian says abolish the ATF, for example, they don't mean that the delegation of power should just revert to congress. They mean that the very laws the ATF was created to enforce such as the NFA should be removed, the regulation of alcohol should go away as well as any laws about tobacco. I am not sure how that prescription does not shrink the power of the government in a very real way. Granted it is not as good as prohibiting the government from regulation in general, but I do think libertarians as a whole are not terribly revolutionarily minded and would rather see incremental reductions in power as opposed to a clean sweep.

[@Cableguy15]

Great video. I hope you do more like this. It got me thinking how they could have done the sequels better while maintaining some of George Lucas' early ideas for episode 7 (Minus the whills lol). I think that if they wanted to justify a plot where Luke is away, they could have had him journeying to some planet on the outer rim, because the Legends stories showed that the power balance between Jedi and Sith is cyclical. Well, a guy like Luke would obviously want to break the cycle. They could've had it be some ancient text on a far away planet that has the key, and he's been gone for a while. While he was away, Kylo Ren could have turned to the dark side. And just like that, you have your plot without having to ruin Luke Skywalker.

[@Northrendish]

I love that new art

[@dominicperez3777]

😲 A video that’s apolitical!

[@kementurh]

Excellent commentary

[@weswyleven9540]

13:00 "they're aboot being aboot family" Aah, your Canadian is showing, Dev.

[@Norbert92]

You should check out a very interesting couple of videos on the deeper aspects of Star Wars, one is called "The philosophy of Kreia" and the other one is "The foundations of Star Wars". They are a bit old now but they still ring true with me, i dont know if the creator is still active. He also has a very very interesting evangelion video where he straight up predicts the last movie's main theme by stating that it also was the original serie's. Quite literally the "go touch grass" idea.

[@GreatSmithanon]

As someone that grew up with the original franchise, and actually liked the prequels, because I enjoy the political and sociological allegory of them, and think they told the story they needed to tell, I've always been enamored with Star Wars. Even though I hate just about everything Disney has diluted it into, I still love the expanded universe, especially the work that Bioware did in KOTOR, KOTOR2, and even SWTOR, as well as accompanying comics and novels. I still relate much of life's struggles to the ideology of the Jedi and the Ideology of the Sith. Frankly I'm more in agreement with Sith ideology than with Jedi, and still plan to have the Sith Code tattooed on me somewhere in Aurebesh. However, I do need to point something out: The folly of the Jedi was presented fairly well in the prequels, ESPECIALLY when examined with the separate but intertwined histories of The Jedi Order and The Old Republic. Relating specifically to the Jedi it can be broken down into a few points. The Jedi predate The Republic by quite a long ways, which means their ideology does as well, and there's some complex history there. Suffice it to say, the Jedi Order is not as tightly bound to The Republic as it seems on the surface. By the time of the Prequel trilogy, what we're observing is a political system that has long been in decline due to many periods of war and internal strife, and a Monastic order that has frequently been at odds with politics and has itself been in decline. The Jedi Order became more and more disconnected from the republic over time, but because it was also bound through politics to the failing republic, it became damn near impossible for the order itself to survive. Simply put, politics will wear away at any opposing force, and that was the undoing of the Jedi: The misguided attempt to remain unattached to a world that was tearing itself to pieces. The Fate of the Jedi was sealed the moment they tied their fate and location to the republic and began to regard the beliefs of The Sith as heretical. They ceased to be an order of understanding and became an order of dogmatism and self-imposed ignorance. To defeat your enemy, you must understand your enemy.

[@papapalps2415]

Like I always say (at least to myself, anyhow), and note so very often with prequel fanboys, its fascinating to watch you people work. Its like seeing, for an easy and channel-applicable allegory, progressives at work. You are so focused on MuH thEmEs, and so enamored with what you like (whether that be an ideology or, in this case, a set of 3 extraordinarily shitty movies), that you, for lack of a better way to put it, miss the trees for the forest. I don't think (or at least, highly doubt) you sorts even realize how much of what you believe is just mentally filled in by your brain to make what you like work. Take most of this post, for example. Most of it is incoherent at worst, nonsense at best. Trying to unironically argue the Jedi 'lost because they regard the Sith as heretical' is so delusionally insane and detached from what's actually in the material itself it borders on parody. But you need to do these mental exercises to justify it all internally, I suppose. Interesting fan theories and such will always be superior in the eye of the beholder to the world we live in.

[@kintsuki99]

The problem with the message of the prequels, liberty being taken by a dictatorship by the choice of the people, is that when objectively looking at the galaxy in SW everything is better under Palpatine's rule. The Empire worked to end slavery in all systems and implement the rule of law in planets that were mostly ignored before it. If anything the population of the galaxy had more freedom and oportunities during the rule of the Empire than with the Republic. That is the problem with many stories, the author has a meaning they want to portrait but they are only able to do it with words and on your face analogies while the story they wrote does not reflect it.

[@papapalps2415]

But everything you just said was pathologically insane nonsense at worst, and useless headcanon fanfiction at best, which.....well, I suppose really always has been the issue with '(insert bad guy faction here) was AKSHUALLY the good guys alllll allllooonnnggg' type contranism, hasn't it? Because believe it or not, you aren't the first person to try to pretend the people whos second major onscreen act is to casually vaporize an inhabited planet ARe AkShuAllY GoOd, GuYssSsSS, scOuTs HonOUr!, and you sure as shit won't be the last.

[@graye2799]

The empire used slavery of wookies to build the death star. They also had labor camps and turned a blind eye to slavery by the hutts or trandosians, so they didn't really care about slavery.

[@TheRealW.S.Foster]

I like the new background art, SFO. Will we be seeing this more often in future videos?

[@pontusvongeijer1240]

I farted today. :)

[@philagelio336]

Excellent video. Another one out of the park. The Rise and Fall of Star Wars should give people insight in what happens when a franchise loses its core and decays. The sequel trilogy is more like an image of Star Wars, as postmodern philosopher Baudrillard would put it, just an image of Star Wars while any real substance of the thing is just hollowed out

[@chrisdryer]

Oh crap. I was listening to those lines you played for the prequels, and I was thinking of the monarchism stuff Aydin and Spoon believe in and then you mentioned monarchy stuff. And I hope they let George Lucas remake the prequels. Show the Lucas cut! Make Jar Jar a Sith Lord!

[@joshuasorey6031]

Libertarians don't just support reducing the size of government, Dev, but also the scope of it. Palpatine's dissolution of the Senate might decrease the number of government employees (except all those soldiers needed to enforce the system are also government agents, so gave you even shrunk it?), but it increases the scope of the state. This isn't the insight/own you think it is.

[@ragnarok7976]

Let the past die... As they feverishly dig up any old and popular franchise in order to reanimate its suffering corpse. Only thing that is dying is self-awareness.

[@spacejunk2186]

There is also a nice video by "." (yes, thats what the channel is called) which does a nice deep dive into the themes and ideas of Star Wars from the perspective of Kreia from KotoR 2. I quite liked it. But it is a long video.

[@MALICEM12]

9:23 the Jedi wear Eastern inspired monk robes because they are a blend of eastern and western warrior monks. Thus the term "Jedi knight". They have a very Buddhist monastic order. They "act like creepy cult members" because they are a spiritual/philosophical order and thus act as such. They don't just look that way because Ben did. Hell most people didn't even know what a Jedi looked like in the OT so Ben being a hermit wearing the robes in the dessert of some backwater outer rim world didn't matter.

[@danielquinn1673]

The hero's journey is one of the most influential books on how to write a hero story by Joseph Campbell

[@beancraver4048]

"Its time to let the past die, that way theyll have have to swallow the shit we give them!" I hate bugmenihatebugmenihatebugmen

[@lostboi2271]

5:46 yooo I didn't know this version of the meme 💀😂

[@EatWave]

9:30 The oddest thing about the Jedi uniform becoming robes is that Luke already had a uniform which one could have assumed were worn by the Jedi. The robes bring into question why Like donned his suit after competing his training.

[@ToxinWolffe]

1:08 I still find it a bit hilarious that Luke doesn't actually use the Lightsaber (besides training) until Empire. "Here's a magic sword you won't actually need because I'll let the guy who you're supposed to fight kill me."

[@chilbiyito]

You got a backup of your previous video somewhere else like odysee?

[@Luluchan00]

You're a little wrong about decreasing bureaucracy in government leading to autocracy. Lowering taxes and slashing useless departments simply puts money back to the people who earned it, and any autocrat who tries to employ the same power those slashed bureaucracy once held can be shown an armed populace.

[@viljamtheninja]

I mean... people liked Star Wars because it was a well written space fantasy epic. I'm pretty sure the philosophy of it was less important than the fact that the writing and execution just made it a really compelling series of films, which is what both the prequels and the sequels failed to deliver.

[@highadmiralbittenfield9689]

Dev, please, I beg you, do an analysis of Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Even if I have to wait months or a year for it, I know it's going to be right up your alley.

[@theliato3809]

The OT told an old story in its own unique way. The PT took what was made in the OT and all the expanded works around it to tell a story of how it came to be. Lucas just needed some help which he didnt get with the PT which is why its so off point but still enjoyable in a way because it is Lucas work. The ST is taking all the problems of the OT and PT and either not learning anything from them or going so far in the opposite direction out of contrarionism it outdos the bad in them.

[@GamingTopTen]

I watched the prequels as a kid, and never noticed how deep they actually could be about politics and how sometimes the best decisions take too long due to bureaucracy. I might have to actually give them another view as an adult, who can like a story with more than just lightsabers and backflips.

[@__-nd5qi]

Remember when Sargon said that the Jedi were evil the farmer remembers

[@senykmartin]

Cool, you made me watch something about star war