The European Style Baritone - Win a T-Shirt!

Here's a discussion on the European style Baritone. I got this Amati four valve oval (Bohemian style) Baritone not too long ago, and have really enjoyed playing on it.
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[@ThatOneHandsomeGamer]

The piece you played at the end was a beautiful work of classical renaissance music called Darude - Sandstorm

[@dreamtheaterfanboy4421]

Cosimos Cendo,

[@maciekszczech]

I've got three baritones and I must say that European style of baritones is the best. Cheers mate! :) P.S. I've got the same soviet tenor and it tottaly kicks ass! :)

[@catatonicbug7522]

It's spelled "licks", not "kicks".

[@mlefeb]

Could you do a video on the Chimbasso? I would love to see that.

[@juanruns7693]

Matthew LeFebvre *cimbasso

[@mlefeb]

TurtleTrombone My bad sorry

[@richardgordon8110]

Matthew LeFebvre DUDE ITS A CIMBASSO.

[@PumilateVFX]

@@richardgordon8110 he knows idiot

[@saidoof9369]

Look at his knew video

[@Arnoldiepin]

Isn't the Wagner Tuba's distinction of being an extension of the french horn, i.e. having a narrower bore and horn mouthpiece, more significant than which side the valve keys are? (even though the position of the keys also comes from the horn design) of course I understand that the position of the valves is the easiest thing to spot when differentiating between W. Tuba and baritone!

[@mirkojorgovic]

Wagner Tuba with horn-mouthpiece is FrenchHorn's section alternate instrument.Kaiser bariton is an alternate instrument for (jazz-band) trombone players,and notation is equal to valve-tenor trombones,and euphonium's treble-clef notation

[@brusselsponyclub4387]

wagner horn we call it. :)

[@aidanchristensen1581]

Wagner tuben (or "tubas") also use a horn mouthpiece, and are in both tenor and bass variations or Bb/F and F/CC (BBb) respectively

[@LAD0GER]

The piece is my life CRAWLING IN MY SKIN THESE WORDS WILL NEVER HEAL

[@BassTrombone95]

I think that instrument might have a medium shank. I have heard that they have a mouthpiece shank size between the small and large over in Europe for some of their baritones and tenor trombones, so this could be an example of that.

[@stevrsc]

If I remember correctly, you once did a video where you demonstrated an old American baritone. If you still have that, a comparison between that horn and this would be nice. Seem to sound simular. Adding a euphonium for a complete comparison would be even better.

[@MrDavidBHarris]

These horns are typically used in Balkan/Roma brass bands from Romania, Serbia, Bulgaria, Macedonia. Nearly every one of these types of brass bands sport at least 2 or 3 of these, honking out the chords in rhythms. Usually a helicon rotary tuba pumps out bass lines and rotary trumpets play melody, accompanied by clarinet and/or sax. Check out Boban Marcovitch from Serbia

[@lbrown21494]

The medium shank (or European shank) is in between small and large. It's most common use was on old Besson euphoniums prior to about 1974. I have a besson new standard that uses this style. If you want a good mouthpiece in this size, check out the Denis wick 4AM or 6BM. Same as the 4AL or 6BL but with a medium shank. Also, The DEG Brian Bowman series are available in this shank size. European shank as it's called. We had an almost identical shank in the U.S. called the Remington shank, used on certain Conn euphoniums.

[@seanmoore1753]

A euro shank mouthpiece would probably fit because it is in between a large and small shank mouthpiece.

[@vincentNJTransit]

Hello mr. Hamilton! I'm a young tubist in New Jersey and love your content. I've always wondered, how many instruments do you own? Every few weeks it seems that you show us a different instrument, and it's always an oddity. Where did you get them? Where and how do you store them? Thanks!

[@TrentHamilton]

I'm not sure how many instruments I own. It's a fair few. Most are either Chinese instruments bought online, and others are bought from Auction sites. One or two have been sent to me.

[@xyachsincrep693]

I just got my Soviet tenor from Ukraine. It plays wonderfully and yes it has 3 valves. Excellent vids my friend, cheers.

[@aidanchristensen1581]

Wagner tuben (or "tubas") also use a horn mouthpiece, and are in both tenor and bass variations or Bb/F and F/CC (BBb) respectively

[@maxball9398]

Hi Trent, Speaking of Wagner tubas, could you do some reviews of Wagner tubas or French horns? Love your vids!

[@Bennim]

I love the new outro!

[@conradoescudero7359]

There's one of these hanging outside of our local music store and I've always wondered what it was, it's really cool!

[@TheRunnoft]

Hey Trent Hamilton, could you play Morceau Symphonique on Trombone? I'm actually playing it for a college audition and would love to hear it.

[@Soccerfan133]

Brandon Smith that piece is so fun, listen to Dave werdens recording for the best one (in my opinion), gorgeous piece, I played it on euphonium. Good luck either way!

[@MrInitialMan]

Well thank you! I now know why my rotary baritone (the sorry, sorry relic I emailed you about) and my piston-valve baritone look so different.

[@jackodoyle2061]

you really went all out on the merch great work as always

[@migueldiharce6029]

That is The Goblin's Rondo by Antonio Bazzini.

[@kc0jtl]

I always refer to this style as a Continental baritone to distinguish it from the British style brass band baritone.

[@TooSlowTube]

If you wrap some tape around the shank of your small bore mouthpiece, it will fit better, and sit further out. Sellotape Diamond is a good one for that. You can also try clear plastic heat shrink tubing, if it needs a bit more - just shrink it onto the shank with a hair dryer or a lighter. It will still pull off, because of the taper.

[@martineyles]

TooSlowTube Maybe PTFE tape too.

[@RamraiderEVO]

The piece at the end is dance of the goblins originally composed for violin

[@decasaint532]

these are the main mid-low brass instruments in Balkan brass bands, in fact it's usually only them and flugelhorns

[@mikemusikable]

Wagner tubas are played with french horn mouthpiece. Therefore they played lefthand like the French horns

[@michaelshelley1289]

i have the "american marching baritone" with the curved bell....(i think look the best out of all of them) it sounds AMAZING....it is over 80 years old and is in pristine condition. just sharing is all......but wondering if all "baritones" have the same length tubing???

[@Entety303]

They do.

[@SamuelPlaysBrass]

My school has an American-style baritone with the forward-facing bell. All of the finish has peeled off at this point, and the leadpipe is horrid. On the bell section the year 1946 is etched. However, it is such a beautiful sounding horn! I believe it definitely compares to a euphonium in the middle register when it comes to the typical "mellow" euphonium sound, but this baritone is incredibly lacking in the department of "direct" and "brassy" sound. Nonetheless quite a nice instrument considering its age.

[@varatic644]

My fav instrment

[@isetta4083]

these ones... look painful to me, as is the same with wagner Tubas, I feel uncomfortable looking at them and their curved bell. Great showcase as always

[@jackhousman6637]

Greeting, Trent. Thanks for your great videos. Greetings from me in New Jersey, U.S.A.. My brother and nephew live in Israel and both play Euphonium (or maybe Baritone, they aren't sure.) We all enjoy your talks. Question: Am i correct that this instrument is the "tenorhorn in B flat" that Mahler calls for, for the solos in the first movement of his Seventh Symphony? Mahler was from Bohemia, in what is now the Czech Republic. (Then Austro-Hungarian Empire). Thanks, and keep up the good work. Question 2: Do you have a video on the Cimbasso, a contrabass valve trombone that Verdi called for, before the tube was well-known in Italy?

[@ThePobb111]

Mahler was writing for a Tenor Horn in Eb, however, most often it gets played on the Euphonium. Also Trent does not have a video on the Cimbasso.

[@armandogiordano1226]

So much information, as always!

[@brananherndon6947]

The Wagner Tuba or Wagner Horn is played like a French Horn and uses the same mouthpiece. Wagner wanted a french horn with a tuba's tone quality, that is why the valves are controlled by the left hand, like a french horn. I am not sure of the key it is played in but that is the basics of it.

[@aidanchristensen1581]

They are in both tenor and bass variations or Bb/F and F/CC (BBb)

[@yuckymike]

Wagner Tubas are also in the key of F like a French Horn or Mellophone

[@aidanchristensen1581]

They are in both tenor and bass variations or Bb/F and F/CC (BBb)

[@jamesburnett7085]

I thought it was a Wagner Tuba, and commented about it on a different segment. I now see my error. My bad! I go my way enlightened and grateful.

[@VisualAssault2011]

You stated that some of the chemicals you use for cleaning are a bit "whiffy"... have you considered using lemon juice? I use it for cleaning all my brass and silver; just give it a good rinse with water after, and then buff up with a dry towel...

[@alansklenar2848]

These style came out of Czechoslovakia,and were curved for musicians riding on horseback.This is also called a tenor horn

[@TheMler]

In a Polka we know two parts for the low melodie parts. The higher part called Tenorhorn and the lower part Baritone. Everey Polka needs a Tenorhorn, a Bariton and two Fluegelhorns parts for the melodie. The turning dircetion is differnt if you take an other brand! There is a dimension between the small trombone and the large trombone mouthpice. A Melton or a Miraphone Tenorhorn use the same mouthpeace dimension! The sound of this Baritone isn't very nice. Greats from Germany.

[@trichards109]

Hey Trent nice video love the channel and keep up the good work!

[@chiwea123]

Hey Trent, im arranging a piece for my G-D bugle, but you can play a lot of music as long as it only involves one scale (no key change) and no accidentals. Unless those accidentals are high.

[@thenebulouscollective3573]

Hey Mr. Hamilton, I'm a decent euphoninist going into my 5th year of playing, but everyone else I seem to know is doing so much better at their instrument than I am, even though I pour in somewhere around 60 hours in a month into it. Do you have any suggestions on how to get better,seeing as how you are such an incredible player?

[@Entety303]

I agree with the tenor horn and baritone.

[@199derek]

It's goblins rondo. We played this last year

[@Arnoldiepin]

Do you know the opening solo from Mahler's Seventh Symphony? (for Tenorhorn in German nomenclature)

[@peterbrassman935]

Mentioned here Wagner tuba also has a french horn mouthpiece.

[@douglasfur3808]

lucky dog, another nice horn. I'd like to hear something more melodious. How about a 3way comparison of this horn a British tradition baritone band a euphonium. I'm imagining something like Shostakovich 2nd waltz.

[@TrentHamilton]

I'm planning a video like that in the new year sometime.

[@mr.starfish4965]

It’s probably Josef Klier’s Baritone Shank.

[@mouse3355]

That instrument you're shaking around is actually called 'Tenor Horn' in most of European countries, I guess. A catalogue I happen to have (from 'Gebr. Alexander Mainz' one) shows lots of French Horns, some Tenor Horns, Baritones, Tubas and Wagner Tubas! So I'm very clear about that! (Alexander model no. reference 146 (tenor horn) & 150 (baritone)...) Man, that's confusing!!!

[@mouse3355]

I don't know. Just kill me

[@TrentHamilton]

I’ve got a smaller three valve version that is definitely a tenor horn, but I was fairly sure this version is a baritone in Europe.

[@mouse3355]

@@TrentHamilton I don't know anymore.. Why on earth they created so confusing ones! Thanks for clarifying BTW!

[@tamasfoldesi5987]

@@TrentHamilton And you were right for the most part. To be more precise, the official names of these 2 kinds of instruments are tenorhorn and baritone horn, or just tenor and baritone if we are lazy, but officially both have the word horn in them. At least in my country (Hungary). And as you've said, the difference between them is the bore, most apparent on the leadpipe, bell, and the section right before it. (Sorry, I'm not entirely sure if it's still called a bow in English or not in this situation, because it looks kinda different then on a tuba or U.S. style baritone. In many places in Europe, that part of the instrument is called the anstoß. Not in the UK of course.) And the funny thing is, that confusion is mutual. If we compare the U.S. style to the european, what people in the U.S. generally call a baritone, I'd definitely call that a tenorhorn. Kinda weird. And what you've said about valve orientation and articulation is interesting. I've never actually realized that before. Maybe I'll pay more attention to it next time I playtest one after I repaired it. But you know, nothing is perfect. The reason we still prefer rotary valves on everything except for trumpets, is that on bigger instruments, the springs make too much noise and the action feels kinda bad on pistons. At least that's how I feel about them. On trumpets we still prefer pistons as well though.

[@tamasfoldesi5987]

@@mouse3355 On average, it's not that confusing. For example the one hanging on the wall is definitely a tenorhorn. And there are some cases when it has such a huge bore (relatively speaking), that you can easily tell, that it's a baritone horn. But there are some cases in between, when even professionals can't agree. Approximately 1-1,5 years ago, when I was a student, my colleagues couldn't really agree on which one it is that I repaired at the time. So yeah, although on average it's pretty obvious, sometimes it's not, but in those cases it doesn't even matter that much, because if you can't tell the difference by looking at it, then you'll not hear it either. But I'd agree that probably these horns are the most confusing among brass instruments.

[@ObtuseArmadillo]

The song is Bazzini, or The Goblins Rondo.

[@l3v.b]

I play on this instrument. This not wagner tuba, wagner tuba small mouthpiece.

[@txsphere]

Thanks for discussing the difference from the Wagner horn.

[@aidanchristensen1581]

Furthermore Wagner tuben (or "tubas") also use a horn mouthpiece, and are in both tenor and bass variations or Bb/F and F/CC (BBb)

[@Aardvark892]

Bohemian indicates part of what used to be called the Czech Republic, right?

[@bernhardwall6876]

The instrument I played in high school, we called it a baritone, but its shape was that of a euphonium. But "euphonium" is harder to picture in your mind. Today, if I had to explain it to non-musicians, I would call it a baritone horn. You know what a horn is, and "baritone" also, perhaps.

[@LilyJaneH]

So it uses the traditional European Euphonium Shank mouthpiece (what Americans call medium bore and treat as the worst shank of them all for an instrument in this pitch range.)?

[@chiwea123]

You should be able to play Clarke's version of the carnival of venice on that two valve bugle. Look up the video of a 1989 scv baritone player playing it.

[@bardjelsness2856]

Goblins rondo

[@TrentHamilton]

Congratulations! I wasn't expecting anyone to get that so fast. Send me a message or an email.

[@chillbrass8000]

Trent Hamilton hey I love your videos I wish u could do more of them u r 1 of the best players if seen

[@Bennim]

lucky...

[@megabossgarcia1913]

Bård Jelsness

[@bardjelsness2856]

Tormod Flaten played it last summer when I was at a band camp with him as one of the teachers

[@generaljefe2749]

Trent can you play the Moscow Parade by Gerhard Trede?

[@nikolayiliev-trumpettrombo1666]

did you really have to start with the flying fingers thing from Ruslan and Ludmila :-) ?

[@DariusCBorz]

In Romania we call them BassFlugelhorns.

[@janprovaznik1613]

Yeah, the same in Czech Republic

[@wt4629]

As many people have said, it uses a European size shank receiver

[@aaronhastie830]

Can you demonstrate the different types of articulation produced by the opposing rotation of the valves?

[@MichaelSidneyTimpson]

Do Wagner Tubas have mouthpieces like French Horns? Is the Anglo-Baritone more like a Bass Cornet? And how does this sit in the Baritone to Euphonium spectrum? For some reason I thought they called this a "Tenor Tuba" in Germany.

[@genericide8231]

I really wish that woodwinds had this same variety of instruments that we can see in the brass family. It's kinda depressing to know that the flute we see now is the essentially the best one we have, and the older flutes, while nice to have around, are no where near as refined, technique-wise, projection-wise, etc. If there was a similar sort of situation, I don't think I'd have any money left!

[@scarroll451]

H Trent! Where did you get the wires for hanging the horns in the back, or did you just buy wire or rod of a certain gauge, amd bend them yourself? Ever worry about bumping them upward and pushing them off the hook and onto the floor?

[@lukefunk8865]

I love your intro music!

[@benfuller5556]

ShowingSummer what's it called

[@alexfred3705]

I like finding out about a all these different instrument. How do u pay for them all

[@marcstephan2940]

Yes, it's not a Wagner Tuba. It's just a Bariton. With only three valves an smaller bore you call it a "Tenorhorn". A Wagner Tuba is much smaller and the valves are made for the left hand because it was played by french horn players in orchestra.

[@tamasfoldesi5987]

Tenorhorns can have 4 valves as well.

[@MichaelSidneyTimpson]

when are you doing a review of Wager Tuben?

[@nicosten3794]

Hi Trent, I just bought the same Amati Bariton. Great sound. Could you please explain how to use the 2 rings at the back of the instrument's main body? It does not match well for a neck/shoulder strap.

[@waschte123]

They are made for a strap. At least the ones on the outside tubing. If you use a single strap, you wear it over one and underneath the other shoulder, and then you have to adjust the length to your size. Shouldn't be uncomfortable

[@olimcginnes8262]

Hi Trent, I am thinking of buying a bass trombone. Do you have any recommendations as to what sort of level of skill I should be before I buy one

[@GioMusicProductions]

Trent can you do a video about the saxhorn?

[@elieselane3235]

all the Saxhorn variant, including OTS (i wouldn't expect you to own examples of all, but maybe graphics....) ? : )

[@winstonelston5743]

The first difference I see between that and a VOGGnr tuba is the mouthpiece,

[@zacharyharper7837]

"And this is, this"

[@hakunakahuna]

I have a baritone of this style, except mine has three rotaries instead of four.

[@musicstuff6670]

I noticed on the beginning on that frase with fast notes,You tense up. Relax,fingers do the hard work.

[@Serge_Korr_Music]

Trent, thanks you so much for your videos! Please, can you to tell (or show), which the difference in sound of European Baritone (and smaller - Tenor) and Wagner Tubas (F/B)? The Wagner Tuba - is left hand, The Bariton (Tenor) - right hand. It's understand. But it's very similar instruments. Can we to get differend sound from ones or no? Thanks!

[@TrentHamilton]

Hi, I would really like to do this for you, but unfortunately I don't have most of the instruments you are wanting to demonstrate :(

[@Serge_Korr_Music]

Nevertheless thanks! :)

[@martineyles]

Hell Warthog The Wagner Tuba is played by horn players in some orchestral pieces, having a smaller bore at the start which fits a horn mouthpiece. I'll put a link to a video of some being played below...

[@martineyles]

Hell Warthog The links I promissed: Wagner Tuba stuff at the start and end with horn stuff in the middle. kzbin.info/www/bejne/g3fQY3Zjq8pqp9k And a clip of European Tenor Horn, which is being played by the same orchestra's principle trombonist. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y5fMp2eOiKd9l5Y

[@aidanchristensen1581]

Wagner tuben (or "tubas") also use a horn mouthpiece, and are in both tenor and bass variations or Bb/F and F/CC (BBb)

[@christroiano121]

The Dance of Goblins by Bazzini

[@that1boi476]

I play Euphonium and the American marching Baritone

[@MateoFrancisco]

for playing a song can you play washington post by sousa?

[@ryanatour]

You are the good on KZbin.

[@noahtaylor6374]

that song was called every circus song ever

[@a_literal_brick]

So.. not the baritone that you fixed the braces on?

[@wyattgilles8013]

The piece kind of sounds like The Entry of the Gladiators..

[@adalbertd]

What is the range of these baritone? lowest note? I have a similar one.

[@TAJadventures]

Ive seen these things all over ebay. Ive been thinking about buying one of those russian oval baritones, because theyre so cheap. Do you think its worth it?

[@rorschach162]

Not unless you can get your $$$ back if it has air leaks.

[@Ryusai90]

I play this instrument for more than 10 years. The Bariton you play was build at the end of the 80's in the Czech republic. In this time Amati instument have round sligtly bend pads for the fingers, a not adjustabel ring for your thumb and this type of global joints at the valves. The brand Amati was renamed at the begin of the 90's to Stowasser and is today known under the name Cerveny. Instruments of these Brand are the standerd Instruments for Tenorhorn/Bariton players here in Germeny, if you won't pay severel thousand Euro vor a Miraphone ore Belltone. Your Bariton is a bohemian style one which is only used in germany and the old Sowjet union , mostly polen and the Czech rep. In westeurope like france , neatherland and so on are other instruments comon. Here in germany is another version called germen style Tenorhorn known. (www.musik-anzeigen.com/export/ad4000b098acef1482cf0c7522929.jpg). Between the Tenorhorn and the Bariton is another difference. If you know the other names for these two instruments, you will see their role in the Orchestra. A tenorhorn is in german also called a "Bassflügelhorn" wich means Bassbugle (?) in english, but a Bariton is also known as a Tenortuba. Depending on this the Tenorhorn plays more soli, melody parts and sidemelodies in the tenor and deep altoregion as a partner or counterpart for the trumpet (Jacob de Haan - Oregon as an exampel). The Bariton plays bass stuff in the deep tenor region and plays together with the basstrombone and the Tuba. A bariton is in bavaria also called "ferkelbass" (eng. pigbass) when it plays the bassvoice in an orchestra. In some german and polish Polkas bothe Instruments play the Same melody, but theBariton plays it a Terz (third?) deeper. If you have any questions about this great Instrument, feel free to ask!

[@Apfelstrudl]

Don't quote this Jacob de Haan noob for anything serious. Secondly the Tenorhorn and slightly broader Bariton are very prominent in austria too because of the common military tradition of czech (bohemia) and austria.. There they play the middle voices or counter melody.. It's the middle/late 19th century military bands where the instruments and their role come from.

[@waschte123]

It's not "polish and german" polkas, it's a thing in almost every Bohemian/Moravian (style) Polkas you can imagine. Do your research better next time

[@clayton3590]

In america we mostly use euphoniums

[@planetcrypto8662]

"Not much of a brass player" - owns a brass museum that would put the musical instrument museum to shame

[@willemkossen]

I have no idea what piece that is. And that isnt a problem as i don't particularly like it. The closing music is great though!

[@carlosreyes3528]

It the piece at the end Napoli by Herman bellstedt?

[@obadiahpear]

I play Baritone B.C... nice.

[@isaac_tuba]

What was the excerpt you played on the baritone in the intro?

[@erentar2002]

Chick Republic

[@masterpage69420]

Gotta love the Kiwi accent

[@catatonicbug7522]

That's the place where Wonder Woman comes from!

[@VitaMaster909]

I like the new outro

[@drzoidberg71]

I realize this video is a bit older of yours now, but is a baritone's tuning more tolerable than a euphonium's?

[@JustRorke]

Try using valves other than first and second

[@tyshawnwilliams846]

can u make a video about a matching baritone and upho

[@charleskleesattel6477]

Wagner tuba is pitched in F.

[@jacobgresk9158]

Were you at the mid-western orchestra and band clinic?

[@TrentHamilton]

There's nowhere in my country that's referred to as "Mid-Western", so no.

[@jacobgresk9158]

It was in Illinois in the US, people from all around the world come to it, just wanted to see if you did :D

[@jacobgresk9158]

Were you in the high school institute?

[@brettclark4096]

have you tried a European/medium shank piece yet?

[@pjkramer6733]

Mr.Hamilton I am a beginning euphonium I just switched from trombone and I got a Yamaha euphonium do you advise Yamaha or is there better horns .

[@TrentHamilton]

Yamaha's are reasonable. About middle of the range. There are certainly better though, but it's a good intermediate range. Do you have a model with the four upright valves?

[@pjkramer6733]

Trent Hamilton no my euphonium is a 3 valve horn

[@sebastiancastaneda3177]

What do you use to clean your instruments? and where might I buy this product or products?

[@TrentHamilton]

I use brasso on raw surfaces.