The Evolution of Lime Crime Cosmetics

[@meganmurderpint8119]

To your point, I’ve only vaguely known Lime Crime was problematic. Never really knew the “why” but didn’t purchase anyway. Knowing the “why” is so important so thank you!!

[@Cheerstothewildones]

I was in this exact boat. Saw the drama videos but never clicked!

[@joanna910]

SAME! Heard they were shit before, but didn't know exactly why. Hannah breaks it down in such a digestible way!

[@angelsnaiilz]

me neither!! i remember a few years back, a youtuber i love to watch said they were no longer supporting them so i was like “okay cool ill stay away” haha

[@hwoods-kg1jf]

Same! And I own a few Lime Crime products! I always wondered!

[@tylerespinoza6624]

Same!! I remember years ago hearing about it and trying so hard to find more info about it but never could so I low key forgot about jt

[@BravoBuds]

“This happened in 2004….it was almost 20 years ago” A reality check I was not ready for.

[@La_br00tal_mija]

Reading this as I pack lunches for my husband and kid. 2004… what I would give for it to be Freshman year again 😓

[@feralperil]

I took psychic damage when she said that 😔

[@alexisemo6002]

me too, i was born in 06 and it’s scary knowing how fast time goes

[@leishathanthou9161]

@@alexisemo6002 i was born in 1996 👀

[@evelyntjex9786]

Ahhh those good old days. Back when I wasn’t born yet. Best time of my life

[@R0291-l1l]

She can't sit there and say she didn't dress like Hitler to offend anyone in particular right after mentioning that it's especially offensive to people in New York, a city with a large and well known Jewish population. She knew what she was doing.

[@jfm14]

Exactly. She literally said she did it bc she knew it was offensive and wanted to push the envelope. 🙄

[@elliewillow4556]

Say it louder for the people in the back 👏🏻

[@simplykathy2273]

From what I've read, Doe Deere herself is russian jewish (or at least claims to be). Which possibly makes the whole thing even worse

[@annoyedbyyourface]

@@rotebohne8033 How the f--k is dressing up like Hilter mocking him? Like seriously, WTF is the point of this comment besides to justify trash ass behavior lol? Probably why you put this BS in someone else's comment vs. making your own because you knew you would get rightfully roasted for such a BS position lol.

[@iciajay6891]

She wanted attention. And she got it. Narssist are gonna Narssist. She will not stop. The best is we can all ignore her. Or pretend we have no idea who she is.

[@renoodle5554]

So something really quick to clarify about Lolita -- you specifically connect underwear to how Doe Deer ripped off the movement movement, but Lolita fashion is actually rooted in feminist rejection of sexualization from the male gaze. The original Lolita movement in Japan centered women dressed in over-the-top cutesy Victorian inspired garments because men were so taken aback by the overt femininity and cuteness of the garments that they couldn't figure out how to sexualize the women wearing them (this is a very oversimplified explanation)... except nowadays, people have found ways to sexualize Lolita-style fashion and trends, which is entirely what the movement was against. Contemporary Lolitas across the world generally are not dressing for sexuality, they are dressing for self expression and delight, so the fact that there's more association by Deer's mergers of Lolita style with "underwear" as opposed to, say, the iconic dresses kind of takes away the power from that style of dressing, and is another egregious example of Deer's disrespect towards other cultures.

[@twochicks23]

Came here to say something similar, glad to see this point being made.

[@mmlee2213]

Thank you for this addition, super helpful and interesting to read!

[@lamibonxd]

this!!! lol as a lolita the images she used too made me slightly cringe😭😭

[@SoEul122]

Yes yesss 👏 I really hope people know this

[@sydneyp7867]

Maybe Doe was pulling from the novel Lolita?? Which is really gross too because it’s about a sexually exploited 13 year old

[@briannaa_xo9386]

that hitler situation is so nasty to me idc how long ago it was. she claimed she didn’t really wanna offend anybody but in the same post she said she wanted to see how much she could get away with so she really did wanna offend people. sick and twisted person.

[@michelle7860]

Exactly. "I don't want to offend any individual person, but I want to be offensive."

[@ayannabranchcomb7535]

Its so pathetic honestly. I hate people who wanna walk through life being as offensive as possible but melt and cry when the offended people snap back. Cowardly and disgusting

[@mandypdx]

What is “idc”??

[@briannaa_xo9386]

@@mandypdx it means “i don’t care”

[@idk215215]

seriously, and she also even said "people really hated it in new york lolol"...yeah because there are a lot of jewish people in NYC and we don't appreciate your hate crime costume. so she knows it's rank and just didn't care

[@Noirxxx25]

When she was an ebay seller, she sold somebody a dress that was literally put together with duct tape lol wasn't even sewn with a needle and thread but actual duct tape. And when the person in question reached out to her about it, doe deer called her an asshole and blocked her. Speaks volumes of her character honestly

[@robinb.6711]

Yes, I remember this! And her response was something along the lines of “If it was sold at Urban Outfitter you wouldn’t be mad.”

[@shakiestalocachica]

Omg I remember this! I guess cancel culture is not so new then haha, because back in the day we had so many "exposure" posts in LJ too, and totally warranted. Didn't she send horrific emails too?

[@Ren_NCTzen]

Omg, I remember this too! That's when I stopped checking Doe Deere's blog. I was just like...nope after that.

[@user-ff1wi6dc1q]

THIS! I remember this! Her attitude about this specific incident is why I stopped supporting her eBay shop! Like if you said anything to her she took it as a direct insult and would just block you, even if you were a customer.

[@taissalada]

She also sold crappy party sunglasses that were intended for children, like the standard ones you can buy in bulk usually come from the dollar store. She was passing them off as designer ones. I know she sold some as I saw it in her seller feedback on eBay and the buyers were NOT happy.

[@em0ville]

I would also like to mention how incredibly telling it is that so much of her earlier success/inspiration came from Asian aesthetics, yet she stole items from Sugarpill's creator, an Asian woman, and couldn't understand how the Chinadoll palette was offensive. It is very clear she's not ally to POC, and only fetishes the culture/aesthetics.

[@andreas_iced8297]

Doe Deer: “stop being so sensitive, that’s silly” Her company: *actively silences all criticism*

[@sherylfenner1983]

A deep dive into Nasty Gal would be awesome. It's a crazy story.

[@plusgirlbworld]

I hope she does it

[@0ffline333]

Omg and Dolls Kill too!!

[@pixiedust5239]

I SECOND THIS. The whole girl boss crap paired with her awful treatment of employees and then their steep decline in sales after dolls kill became popular

[@pixiedust5239]

@@0ffline333 I used to live in La and all of my clothes are from there. The owner is sweet as pie so let’s not lol

[@0ffline333]

@@pixiedust5239 i mean, she can still be sweet and shady 😅 there's been multiple scandals re: underpaying models and workers & racism but everytime they come up, they just turn off their ig comments until people forget

[@marianotyourbusiness]

I assume that at least part of the reason that Lime Crime escaped a lot of the backlash that certain other brands received comes down to this: the name of the company is not the name of the person who started the company. It makes it that much easier to separate the brand and the actions of the founder, makes it harder for you to just 'stumble' upon information about the founder's history, etc.

[@Roadto750]

🎯

[@slavmetal]

Was about to comment the same thing. I know that Kat Von D is no longer at KVD, but because they still use her initials I don't think I will ever want to buy their stuff again. But Lime Crime doesn't have that same baggage.

[@adriannes1250]

Doe Deere called me a horrible person among other hateful comments when I told her on Instagram she shouldn’t be handling dead birds without gloves due to the dread of zootonic diseases. She’s officially off her rocker.

[@chelscara]

Meanwhile I had gardening gloves and plastic bags over my hands trying to remove a dead pigeon from my front yard 🙃 wtf is she on and low key where can I get some because I would also like to stop living in reality for a little bit

[@kneau]

@@chelscara hmm. Behaving in ways one could believe of someone seen to be doing something hazardous for health, giving the impression they've done it countless times before. This humor gets positively dark so fast.

[@miriamuSama]

Can you proof this? Or should we just take your word for it?

[@adriannes1250]

@@miriamuSama yea its on her instagram

[@smushles19]

lol at not knowing what livejournal is - I feel old! LJ was EVERYTHING during secondary school! It was also more like Tumblr for the fanart and fanfiction content and communities back in the day.

[@curveappeal8180]

That was a dagger *sobs in aging millennial*

[@intothemystic5223]

I'm about to be 43 and I've never heard of it. I guess I'm too old for it lol

[@Marxnchill]

Live journal was my LIFE. I still use it to vent.

[@1917yee]

YESSS I loved LJ so much! I'm only 31 so it's crazy that people in their mid 20s have never heard of it

[@smushles19]

@@intothemystic5223 i'm 33 ;)

[@kaialexander6806]

I feel like a lot of folks don't realise just how bad it is to jokingly wear Nazi memorabilia or dress up as Hitler as a joke in the same way they don't realise how unfunny it is to jokingly draw swastikas. It might seem like an edgy ha ha joke for you, but for us who would have been exploited, tortured, murdered, assaulted, etc. during the Holocaust, it's very difficult to ever see that kind of stuff in anything but a horrifying manner. For a lot of us, we have to associate it with hate groups and hate crimes and danger, because the people who use it unironically want us dead. We have to assume that you're at least tolerant of Nazism at the very least. We don't get to see it as a funny ha ha joke because the other option is hate crimes and genocide. At least six million people (historians have recently discussed adjusting the estimate to closer to 10mil) were slaughtered by those wearing that uniform or that symbol or following that man's orders; it's just not funny for us.

[@eveningstar8581]

Very good point! Are you a Holocaust survivor?

[@fawn2911]

People do realise but they just don't care. They know what they're doing and they're definitely not ignorant

[@kneau]

Mocking nazis is a correct thing to do.

[@m_here1]

@@kneau Yes and no. “Mocking Nazis” is a nuanced thing. For example, Mel Brooks, a Jewish person, actively mocked Nazis and Hitler to take away their power in his work, but especially in “The Producers.” And it works somewhat well (he’s a controversial figure in the Jewish community). But so many people who mock Nazis and say they want to “punch Nazis” actively perpetuate antisemitic tropes and don’t say anything when Jewish people are attacked or targeted. Nazis are not the only group in history that were antisemitic and they certainly were not the last. Antisemitism is a 3000 year old form of hatred and it is a part of so much of our society. Just yesterday, a Texas synagogue was held hostage, and the FBI said that it had nothing to do with the Jewish community. It is incredibly ridiculous to say that a man holding a Jewish house of worship hostage didn’t have any ill will towards Jews. And I have seen very few people talk about that. So, if you want to actually help Jews, stop focusing on Nazis. Learn about antisemitism, learn that it exists on all sides of the political spectrum and exists in some form in every part of the world. Learn to call it out. Jews are only 2% of the US population and only 0.2% of the global population. And yet they are the target of 60% of religiously motivated hate crimes in the US. There’s a serious problem there.

[@Cheshirestog]

It would be one thing if people dressed up on Halloween because it is literally one of the scariest things, as a scary costume. BUT none of the people who dress that way are doing it for that. They think of it as a joke or edgy costume and not as something negative or disgusting. Add in they frequently are shown to have bigoted attitudes to go with that choice in costume. So it isn't far off from why they chose to wear it. It's also not a good idea even on Halloween cause the question would become, are you a neo nazi who supports that stuff because they do still exist. It isn't all in the past.

[@bella1rules]

Livejournal was super popular for fandom/fanfic before it was purged of all ‘explicit’ content (which ofc included all queer stuff) and fandom moved to friendlier places. Didn’t even occur to me that most people who aren’t big into fanfic don’t know what it is.

[@emilycurtis4398]

And the Oh No They Didn't gossip page. I was in some awesome LJ groups.

[@Angie-qi5hk]

There were so many different communities on LJ. Plus everyone I knew had one. It was where everyone was before MySpace.

[@wh0aheavy]

Oh man, I had an LJ and I wrote f/f fanfic. Lost the password years ago, but it bums me to think all my fanfic might be gone now 😢

[@emilycurtis4398]

@@wh0aheavy I checked mine a few years ago. (A friend and I were gossiping about highschool and we forgot someone's name, so I decided to read my LJ as a "primary source document." So much cringe)

[@Amsayy]

Miss the livejournal communities tbh

[@dreamof_me]

Another scandal she had pre-lime crime was when she would basically scam her customers by selling cheap drop-shipped items. I remember she sold heart shaped eyeglasses and claimed they were high quality and for adults but someone who bought them exposed how they were very cheap looking and made for children.

[@erinbird1228]

Yes that would be the "private labeled" issues that were mentioned

[@faeriesmak]

That was pretty common for eBay sellers to do back in the day. I sold Lolita style white ruffle socks with lace in adult sizes for $16.00 a pair that I bought much cheaper in bulk as part of my eBay business.

[@meghannicole1474]

I remember when that security breech happened. I'll never forget reading posts from people saying that they had lost so much money in the breech that they were not able to pay their rent, bills, and even student loans. The fact that they just gave $44 and a 15% off coupon code to the victims is just another f*ck you from Doe Deer.

[@trishanichole8440]

I was someone involved in this, and I caught it three months before I received any notice from Lime Crime about it. So if I didn't notice, I'd have gone THREE MONTHS with a compromised bank account.

[@meghannicole1474]

@@trishanichole8440 Thank goodness you noticed! If you don't mind me asking, how much was stolen from your account?

[@trishanichole8440]

@@meghannicole1474 I caught two $100 ish charges to EA Games pretty soon after it happened. I was one of the lucky people who got their money back without needing to pursue Limecrime about it. Luckily EA was easier to deal with directly and took care of it faster than my bank did lol

[@shea5581]

My info was stolen during this and thankfully I was able to settle it (after 3 months of back and forth with my bank). But I didn’t receive any money from LC 😭 Worst part was knowing that they were aware of the breach but decided not to alert anyone until it was getting posted everywhere

[@meghannicole1474]

@@shea5581 That is terrifying! It sucks that you didn't receive any compensation for everything you had to go through.

[@zoe8235]

I wear drugstore makeup and don't even know how to do that properly but I'm always down to hear you talk about a brand for 40 mins

[@darcywrafter255]

lmao literally me i cannot even get any of these brands in my country but sure tell me everything sis

[@lemurluver12]

literally same and I barely wear makeup😭

[@artcowboy]

Me and my elf cosmetics relate lmaoo

[@brittneybrisbin744]

Same here, I only wear lipstick and don't care for any other makeup but I love learning about brand history and makeup history in general.

[@TheNinjaNiky]

You guys aren't missing much, only good thing I'd buy from LC is the lip products lol

[@riateitelbaum6580]

i'm only 9 minute in and i feel like a crone hearing people not know what livejournal is. i remember reading about alllllllllll the scandals and drama and awfulness surrounding limecrime and doe deer for YEARS on livejournal comms cause she was emo/scene adjacent. love that you decided to tackle limecrime, gonna get back to the video

[@helene8706]

same also people thinking it was only 10-15 years ago- that's not a very long time in the scheme of things or the lifetime of a business! I feel like telling everyone to get off my lawn

[@kat8559]

I'm a year younger than hannah and I feel the same way lol

[@jacjac_jac]

@@helene8706 Haha, I had the same reaction... and I remember being a kid in the 90s feeling like the 70s and 80s were a million years ago. How the turn tables 🙃

[@haleymist09]

Lol when people don't know early social media sites 😭 and they have to use current ones to describe them

[@haleymist09]

@@jacjac_jac this all the time, so i remember how they feel lol

[@lemon2639]

Lime crime was actually the first KZbin drama I was ever interested in, I remember watching content on those moldy/rusty eyeshadow duos

[@mek0626]

I remember this!!!

[@user-ff1wi6dc1q]

Yes!!!!!

[@Makeuphoarder1]

Yesss

[@weirdhousewivesclub]

As someone who has followed LC scandals since LiveJournal, I'm excited to hear your take on this!

[@casey3684]

SAMMME! remember that dress/skirt that she altered with DUCT TAPE?!?! LOL

[@mintvelvet3351]

Who else remembers back in the Tumblr days when there was the doe deere exposure page? Man that was a spicy time.

[@annoyedbyyourface]

Tumblr back in those days was so great lol.

[@CatBarefield]

The china doll thing is such a clusterfcuk. It’s fetishization, bastardization, and appropriation all at once

[@mek0626]

Absolutely. And incredibly racist!

[@tedoymisojos]

@@mek0626 why is it racist? I dont get it.

[@kaemincha]

@@tedoymisojos how would it not be racist? i dont get it.

[@sandras2624]

@@tedoymisojos go and look for the person called annie and their comment and its thread here in the comment section. they explain this beautifully

[@KC12344325]

As a lolita who got into the fashion towards the end of LiveJournal's heyday, hearing your absolute bewilderment about the site is quite humorous.

[@hwoods-kg1jf]

I ironically was talking about LiveJournal yesterday with my boyfriend who is a big tech and computer geek. He had never heard of it and I was shocked! I had one like 2004-2006. I forgot my handle, email and password so I don't even know how to find it but I'd LOVE to go back and read my journal entries from that time in my life! I was going through so much! I was in my late teens or early 20's. Shit was so different back then!

[@shakiestalocachica]

@@hwoods-kg1jf hahaha omg I think if I found my Livejournal again I think I would die of embarrassment.

[@RosieGaga]

I turned to dust when she said she didn’t know about live journal 💀💀💀

[@lethaldream50]

@@RosieGaga i literally aged 1000 years when i heard her @ 8:30

[@valentinagarcia2693]

Hi Hannah! I’m from Mexico and here it’s really difficult to get alt/ bold makeup (even from Sephora, here they only carry a couple brands and don’t even have the Sephora grand black liquid lipstick) and a couple years ago a beauty chain store started selling it but here is so overpriced and there’s has been a couple of controversies with expired palettes and lipstick of lime crime, apparently lime crime has been repackaging old makeup and sending to these stores to sell, the boxes say it’s new but the actual component has an expired date and Bellísima (the store) doesn’t do packaging, they only sell the stuff so it’s like that when they arrive to stores, expired makeup repackaged to look okey and pass health restrictions (Sorry English is not my main language so I hope it makes sense)

[@ayannabranchcomb7535]

You make perfect sense girlie 💖 also that is horribleeeeeeeeeeee

[@Biogrrrl]

The saga continues...

[@AnaPerez-dj9ud]

Olovorgooo eso no lo sabía, bellisima devolvió el dinero?

[@accordingtoisabel]

OH!!! en fin de año fui a la tienda me queria comprar unas sombras pero no se me dio como mala espina y no compre nada. Como sabes que el componente esta vencido? viene de que en la paleta no en el empaque? para fijarme a la prox.

[@mirilovesyou2518]

@@accordingtoisabel muy tarde, pero normalmente te das cuenta de que un producto está por expirarse o ya se expiró porque tiene un aroma fuerte, tiene una textura diferente (como cuando los labiales líquidos se vuelven pastosos con el tiempo) o el color cambia (una base que te queda más naranja que antes)

[@nicollettealyciaxo]

I was just thinking of making a purchase from Lime Crime, but I couldn’t remember if they had any scandals or unethical behavior. Thanks for the information!! Lol

[@tugboatcaptainCC]

Same actually.

[@Sam_Lite]

I still have hair dye of theirs from when I thought the owner wasn't involved anymore. It's a really crummy situation because their hair dye has treated my hair the best out of the ones I've tried so far. But I just cant support the company if this is okay behavior to them.

[@Maggie-ot8vx]

@@Sam_Lite did you watch the end of the video? Doe Deer is no longer involved in the company in any capacity so buying their products won't be supporting her behavior

[@Sam_Lite]

@@Maggie-ot8vx I'm fixing a pipe burst in my house so I haven't finished the video but that's great news!! Cant wait to hear the rest.

[@MissaBrevis]

@@Maggie-ot8vx true, but they handled her 'stepping down' but still being on the board so badly that I just don't really trust the brand even now

[@erinolsen8062]

not only did doe deer rip off shrinkles style back as clothing brands but she tried to sabotoge sugarpills intitial makeup launch by making her products seem private labled when it was not, and people accused her of ripping off of one of the sugarpill heartbreaker palettes for the aquatina palette.. Not to mention the shit with temptalia, which that email she gave out was her personal email address and not her professional email address, which is extra insane.

[@nomanejane5766]

Lime crime would also use fake accounts to raise the bids on her clothes , back in her ebay daysb

[@jnm2088]

I remember the temptalia shit thats how I found out about her beef with Shrinkle. Damn that it takes me back

[@kaylawashere1]

Also wanna add that here in Canada, Lime Crime was being carried at The Bay which is our largest department store chain. I just checked to see if they were still being carried but it looks like they’re being clearance out. Only 1 item was available online. Love the video!! ❤️

[@alexisbradley1725]

I had no idea it was carried at the Bay! Woa!!

[@hannahlo2189]

And they are still carried at urban outfitters but that was said in the video I believe

[@Deebles.]

They also sell them at winners lol

[@emiengee456]

I didn't even know it was sold there, I thought they were a Hot Topic brand this whole time, ngl. I'm glad they're slowly phasing them out.

[@Jessica-md7no]

As a ✨30 year old lady✨ I remember hearing that the owner of Lime Crime was basically a crook back in the day, right after I had ordered that SUPER popular grey liquid lip…I can’t remember the name exactly but it was all over KZbin! (Chinchilla, maybe?) I never ordered again bc I felt guilty about it, but I never heard most of this info! Wow. Just a legitimate history of tone deaf insensitivity & ripping people off at every turn.

[@mintvelvet3351]

Yes it was chinchilla

[@formerbabyfutureghost]

This was my exact same experience as a 30 yr old lady hahah

[@aleak2385]

ugh i remember when they tricked consumers into believing that the owner was no longer involved and i got a lipgloss only to learn that they had mislead everyone and at that point i was like throw the whole suitcase out its all trash

[@dreamof_me]

Wait, is she involved? I’m not and have never bought anything but good to know

[@crimsonowl1420]

@@dreamof_me She's not. Near the end of the video it says she stepped out completely on lime crime and is no longer affiliated with it and won't receive any money from it.

[@aleak2385]

@@dreamof_me she herself isnt involved anymore, personally however i found the way the company handled her first time "leaving" to be shady and gross, they knew people didnt support her so they worded things to mislead consumers into believing she no longer had involvement or financial gain (when she did) so even though she now actually has no involvement im still just not interested

[@morigahn]

I effing love Sugarpill's eyeshadows, not related to anything really, they have an excellent formula, it's easy to blend, super super high pigment, and interesting shades. My opinion is based off of when I first found the company, probably the first brand I got big into outside of like Mac and Smashbox, like 2014 iirc. Haven't checked them out in years, just recently did some resin art with a couple SP eyeshadows I made into a fine powder/pigment/whatever. Great way to use old makeup, and fun too.

[@garfunkel555]

i love sugar pill for stage makeup bc the shadows are so pigmented , the owner is a sweetheart too

[@haileybuth9223]

I still love sugarpill, they still keep it lowkey and drama free with beautiful formulas

[@mintvelvet3351]

Yeah except Amy has been seen hanging out with Jeffree Star so…

[@em0ville]

I love their makeup!! The formulas are really nice and I like being able to support an Asian-owned business

[@IllyDragonfly]

I bought from the recently and I have been for a while. They still make very nice makeup. I didn't try the small cat palettes or the pill shaped palettes, but the singles are still damn pigmented and give you a lot of product. Also the liquid lipsticks and lipglosses are super nice, I adore all the glittery shades, they are not as drying as many other brands. The only thing which may annoy some is the scent and taste of the lipsticks, which is like... orange creamsicle? I actually adore it, but some said it makes them gag XD

[@RubyBlueUwU]

I often say that it’s one of the weirdest things about the makeup community that brand owners are so public and become so heavily associated with the companies, so it directly reflects on and affects their brands when they do and say shitty things. The truth is that most corporation owners are evil, they do and say horrific things and fund things we’d never be okay with but…we don’t know about them, because they usually don’t own their brands instagrams and post about it all the time. I’m not even sure I’d prefer the beauty industry to be that way or that I want the atrocities many food and drink companies commit to be brought up in the way makeup brand owners’ are, it’s just….really weird to think about I guess

[@a.beaverhausen1140]

Totally agree. I think it's strange that the beauty community gets so outraged by the actions of beauty brand owners, but no one seems to really care about these other brand owners, many of whom are not saints I'm sure

[@vannareyne6336]

@@a.beaverhausen1140 Speak for yourself on that, most of the people I know, and myself who boycott fashion and make up brands for these types of scandals also boycott brands like Goya, Nestle, and Kellog's for their scandals. We might hear less about them because the media doesn't focus on it, and they don't promote it to their customers, but when we know, we put in the effort to do better. I use buycott to help with boycotting food companies.

[@EmilyWhite2013z]

@@vannareyne6336 I will also say it’s much EASIER to boycott makeup vs food brands. Too Faced does something fucked up, it’s easy to just not buy from them. There’s lots of makeup out there and none of its a need. It’s much harder to boycott food brands like Nestle, because they own so many different brands. And food is a need, and sometimes I can’t afford to buy the expensive fair trade items. It does suck, because I still feel strongly about not giving money to evil corporations, but it’s so extremely difficult when it comes to food.

[@vannareyne6336]

@@EmilyWhite2013z I agree it is harder with some things, especially since the owners own sooo many brands it makes it even harder to buy alternatives. I am a big believer that if you can do better, you should do better. But that comes from recognizing that not everyone is in that position for a variety of reasons. You’re doing your best and that is enough :)

[@RubyBlueUwU]

@@vannareyne6336 you absolutely can’t boycott everything that’s evil, though. That was kinda my point. I’m not trying to argue that it’s actually ~totally fine~ to buy from these brands with horrific owners, but 100% you will be actively buying something from someone who’s horrifically racist or an abuser or who is stealing water from impoverished countries or funding war or something unspeakably evil. You can *try* to stay on the ball, but you cannot know all of it because these people are very capable of covering things up. The beauty community often gets berated for being awful, but it’s actually extremely typical of all businesses and all products, the dirty laundry is just slightly more out in the open than in 99% of other industries.

[@rachelcunningham2498]

It never occurred to me before how on-the-nose naming her brand Lime CRIME really was

[@AllCloudsAreBunnies]

I remember the dress Doe Deere “made” and hemmed with duct tape. She was a *HUGE* amy doan (sugarpill founder) copy cat/knock off and she’s always been a nasty person… Ps: the white woman wearing the kimono you pointed out modeling the LC China doll palette was Doe Deere herself; there was a *long time* that doe refused to use any models but herself for new release makeup campaign photoshoots. Yeesh Pps: her new brand is so cringe lol

[@biancasenisi3900]

Just a note, the model in the China Doll promo image is actually not Doe, it was one of the first times she used someone other than herself to promo her makeup. Can't remember the name of the model now, i think she might have been a blogger or something

[@GaliadelaRosa]

I remember the video made by the customer of the dress with the taped hem, Doe even called her stupid or dumb after she reached out to her.

[@HERSHISKISS]

I remember being 14 and really wanting limecrime lipstick, but this was back 2012 (I never heard of any of their scandals) and I didn't have a credit card nor did I know anybody who ever shopped online. So, all I could do was look at their website for hours. Looking back, I'm glad that never happened😆. Bright lilac lipstick would have looked awful with my undertones.

[@abbbbiie]

This was a big takeaway for me! I'm so glad I didn't have disposable income before I knew about these scandals and things because I really would've loved some Lime Crime or JSC lipsticks!

[@tunabarrett7384]

Why did lilac lipstick have such a grip on us back in the day? 🤡

[@mek0626]

Scandals*

[@SabrinaWu11]

This one took me back to my college days. Social media was really like the Wild West back then. People were sh1t posting like no tomorrow and never thought any of this stuff would come back to bite them. Kinda crazy how she ratted on herself. Like hun you got away with it once, why brag about what horrible choices you’ve made?!

[@Iza56]

People used to be free back then

[@megdavidson1321]

What is your idea of free? This is incorrect. The internet is a newer invention and people’s understanding of the long-term consequences weren’t known. Saying people used to be free is a gross over-simplification of life.

[@QueenCocoVT]

I just pulled an all nighter to finish a cake and here you are coming through AGAIN - amazing 👏🏼 truly.

[@IMKILLROY]

We just got a lime crime pallet in boxxy and I said to my mom “I think it’s a good pallet, but I’ve heard nothing good about them”. Bless you for this video so I can prevent both of us from actually purchasing from them.

[@tossefin]

Did you watch until the end of the video? The owner is no longer associated with the brand, so that shouldn't stop you from using their products if that's what's holding you back.

[@natalialocilento6654]

the new intro is a bop! i also heard of lime crime and was genuinely curious as to why it is regarded as scandelous. love you ✨

[@sharonblake9143]

So ready for this - Lime Crime is just a wild ride Also, love the new intro!!

[@pastichio_]

Hi Hannah! Love this video (your new setup looks amazing!), but the section on the "Chinadoll" scandal was frustrating. As a Chinese person, the "Chinadoll" palette is not just "appropriation" or "stereotyping", it is straight up racism and we should call it as such. Imagine if someone were to release a makeup collection where they did blackface, wore a bunch of items from different African cultures as if they're all the same, and likened black people to an animal. We would call that racist. Racism against Asians often isn't taken very seriously, so please try not to use euphemisms for racist actions!

[@kendall6049]

A KIMONO ISNT EVEN CHINESE! It’s Japanese!!! Why is nobody calling this out?!

[@pastichio_]

@@kendall6049 You're totally right! That's what I was referring to when I was comparing it to "wearing a bunch of items from different cultures as if they're all the same", but I should have called it out explicitly.

[@giraffe1219]

I think she would still use “appropriation” and “stereotyping” referring to your hypothetical African culture pallet. Its valid to want the word “racism” to be used but I really don’t think it’s fair to imply her using the other words was her dampening the severity. I’m sure she would say it’s racist as well, but some words can be so similar in meaning people might think one word they’re using gets their point across.

[@pastichio_]

​@@giraffe1219 I really urge you to reconsider your outlook on this topic. Appropriation and stereotyping are often used to refer to actions that do not rise to the level of racism. For example, western people wear “kimonos” all the time and many white-owned businesses sell them. Those are all instances of appropriation, but don’t generally rise to the severity of racism. If someone were to say “Asians are good at math”, that would be stereotyping, but it seems severe to call that person a racist. Appropriation and stereotyping are not necessarily actively harmful to a community. If a white person wants to wear a Chinese traditional dress to their prom (an instance of appropriation), it may rub me the wrong way, but ultimately it’s not perpetuating any ideas that are actively harmful to me as a person. Using a “Chinadoll” concept perpetuates the idea that Asian women are exotic dolls to be played with. It dehumanizes them. Asian women are literally dying, being pushed into a subway train, followed home from an Uber. Also, Hannah has used the term "racist" before in other videos to refer to other actions. Part of the job of being a commentary channel and trying to hold people accountable for their actions is paying attention to these kinds of things and using the right terminology.

[@kaemincha]

@@pastichio_ this was a great explanation!

[@ethicalibra]

her china doll pallet isn’t just appropriation, it’s fetishization.

[@Ghostlaundromat]

The china doll stuff makes me so mad just on how much it just fetishizes Asian women. It’s not stereotyping, it’s straight up fetishism.

[@alexisgrey3633]

Yeah and the term 'China doll' is another term for the 'Lotus Blossom' or 'Geisha' stereotype that Asian women are submissive and delicate and sexy, a stereotype used to fetishize Asian women in the worst way.

[@RubyBlueUwU]

I’d maybe argue that it’s both? Like it’s fetishising a ridiculous stereotype of a homogenous ~Asian woman~ concept which is just so many layers of dehumanising and racist, with some misogyny thrown in as the icing on the shitty cake

[@hattrickk15]

"I had no idea what live journal was" Ouch. My 32 year old heart just died. lol I'm so old.

[@anastasiahorozhankina]

For those, who are wondering about Doe Deer russian name pronunciation: it's /'kse-ni-ya/ /'vo-ra-ta-va/. Thanks for the video ❤️

[@mek0626]

Thanks for the translation but I still have no idea how to pronounce that 😂

[@rm2869]

@@mek0626 you could simplify it to KSE-nya VOR-uh-tuh-vuh

[@xThExLiTtLeXmOnStErx]

i remember back then i kept up with the lime crime drama through instagram drama accounts and tumblr blogs. there were so many and they were often written off as hate but they really did help hold brands accountable when nobody else was really doing it!

[@ashlynnebogema8021]

Just got out of surgery and this video is the only thing helping the pain! Love you girl! Thanks for the content

[@chelseacd]

I remember when everything went down between DD and Temptalia. Christine has never been anything but professional in the 10+ years I’ve read her, and I knew then I would never purchase LC.

[@jfm14]

Right? Christine is the last person who deserves such treatment. Her reviews could never be described as snarky or rude in any way.

[@itscoral]

A morning upload?! We love to start our day off with Hannah!

[@hawleystone]

I love these evolution of videos!! They’re so informative and entertaining. They really make me think about the brands I support or the KZbinrs I watch. Thank you for taking the time to make these!! ☺️ Some ideas you should consider are the Dolan Twins, Zoella, ThatcherJoe, or the other British vloggers from early KZbin because they are no longer uploading or just really inconsistent. I always find it interesting to see how old KZbin used to be. It seemed so much simpler. (Or if you really want to dive into something you could do the Kardashians)

[@p0rcelainx466]

I ain’t ever clicked so fast on a YT notification in my dang life, I’m excited to hear you cover this because every other video of Doe Deere/Lime Crime leaves me feeling like there’s something missing. Do ya thang! ✨

[@meg_allen]

ooo so excited for this video! i remember the cult around lime crime in the early 2010s in particular but never fully understood the scandals in the same way that other more prominent brands had controversies. hannah with another banger in the new year 🤩

[@ericaohmg95]

I’ve heard that Lime Crime was problematic, but never really knew why. As an Asian-American, I feel sickened by the China Doll palette

[@rubytuesdayism]

I feel so old at 37 knowing exactly what live journal is--what a time, we were telling ALL our real business, no filters of any kind😬😆

[@missgigip]

Exactly lol same I was around back then and think mine is still online 😂

[@imathumb]

😂🙋‍♀️ i know, i gawked when she said "i dont know what livejournal is". heeeeelp

[@Nicole-dk1cn]

I'm 29 and grew up using LJ if that makes you feel better lol. Best experience in fandom to this day tbh.

[@robinb.6711]

I knew Doe Deere back in her Best Sunday Dress store/Livejournal days and she had a lot of internalized misogyny.

[@miascott8945]

Does not remotely surprise me.

[@robinb.6711]

@@miascott8945 I don’t know how much of her comments and interactions from 2003-2005 are still available on Livejournal, but those receipts of her being cruel to her teenage fans and unhappy customers would be so entertaining to read now.

[@lamyalabeeba9663]

LOVING the new intro! also the longer, more in-depth videos! your extra effort does not go unnoticed ❤️

[@thecrownaaron]

Wow this is crazy to learn about! As you said, it's in par or even worst than some of the most controversial brands today like KVD or JSC. So to see their past not as mentioned as often as those is very suprising to see (even if the convo was about their positive redemption). I think it goes to show how in the long-term having a brand literally not named after an individual could save itself so easily when compared.

[@Iamyl4]

Please do a SHEIN one of these! Or fashion nova. Love all your long, in depth videos!

[@MissBuyNLarge]

me going into this video: nobody could be as problematic as Jeffree Starr me only about halfway through this video: oooh, nevermind as someone who casually enjoys makeup and doesn't follow much of what's happening in the industry, I appreciate these in-depth looks at brands because now I know who I am supporting with my purchases...and alternatively, I know who I absolutely SHOULD NOT support so thank you

[@jordc448]

Lol shes bad but i actually dont think shes reached his level

[@MissBuyNLarge]

@@meuliaisacoolgirl I definitely don't think she's as bad as Jeffree, but the fact that anybody's even in the same ballpark surprised me

[@halaa3565]

i find it really funny when brands say that “the owner is not associated with this brand anymore so you can rest assured” when there aren't any news of that brand being sold to any other company or that the name got changed lol

[@eggsalad550]

I love the new intro music! It's very chill and makes my brain happy :)

[@t_writer17]

OMG! I love the intro and your background! It looks so clean and fresh for the new year! I just made a video on brands that have cancelled themselves and Lime Crime was one I mentioned. Their background is very interesting to see how the brand ‘progressed’ throughout the years.

[@amanda_enjoys8007]

I needed this video! The first point you made about people not knowing what happened has been me for years. I’ve wanted to know but never had the time to research it all 👏🏽

[@isamarion5273]

Your new intro is stunning! I love your energy and the work you put into KZbin 💕💕

[@ichigo_kitsune]

Hahaha not me being in that photo at 8:21 😂😂😂 thank you for a friend for letting me know 🤣🤣

[@sarawhyy9963]

Thank god for you. I was just trying to explain lime crime to my zoomer cousins and siblings. But its like sooooo much to remember. Thank you for this.

[@monicawv]

i've been off the intenert for the last 4 to 6 weeks and been binge watching all of your videos that i missed on, a great way to spend my quarantine!

[@GreenGreda]

I was admiring the background at 24:38 and then saw the rock start to move!! Time to branch out and be a ghost, storytime youtuber? 🤪 /s

[@silkesto580]

Yes, I needed a new video from u on this slow Sunday 🙌 happy Sunday yall. Yall have a great day

[@reviewbrethren8090]

i consider it to be a badge of honor that i never bought JSC, Kylie cosmetics, or lime crime. Sadly KVD tattoo liner was my jam in 2015 tho.

[@krystinahaas903]

I love the evolution that your content has made over the last year. I’m not sure if it’s the involvement of your friends and Charles or what but you seem so much more comfortable and happy. And of course the bonus we all get from the vlog channel and podcasts is everything! Love seeing Hannah peek through on Smokey Glow 🖤

[@myhauntingromance]

So excited for this one. I've always wondered what the issue with LC was. I bought one of their palettes due to how stunning it looked. And then the formula was meeeh. Plus, I remember you said they were problematic but I didn't really know why

[@Jamieswiftie13]

I rewatch this video once a month Hannah you’re such an icon for doing these videos amazing content and you deserve the world ♥️

[@Keykatriz]

I'm an old person so I knew the majority of this, and I put off trying anything from Lime Crime for a long time. But I think for me what set Lime Crime apart from J* or KVD was that the products were honestly cutting edge and something different. Not so much anymore, but the diamond crush lip toppers, their Venus palettes, liquid lipsticks, etc, they were way ahead of the curve. It's one of those things that it's really just up to you and where you put your money. I've never spent a single dollar on J* stuff but I have a decent amount of Lime Crime tbh because it really is just something different. Also, not surprised at all that her and Sugarpill's owner had a fight. The JFashion community has always been quite small and insular, and you can just imagine how much more so in 2004. It did cause me a little existential dread when you said you've never heard of live journal before, lmao. Not only could you have your own journal, but there were also groups and the biggest Western lolita community was LiveJournal, easily .

[@rominawitschnig]

I'm so glad you're making this kind of videos, it's so important to be educated about the brands you're supporting 🙏

[@Scr3amerrr]

As someone who's been in the beauty community since the whole "Reselling $1 'lolita' sunglasses for $20" scandal, it blows my mind that so many newer members of the community aren't aware of all this Is this how older millennial's feel when gen z kids haven't heard of * insert anything here *

[@TheAdrift]

Like how older millennials feel when gen-Z kids haven't heard of LiveJournal? 😆

[@tossefin]

Lol I'm a millennial but only got into beauty content during the pandemic pretty much, so I haven't been aware of anything going on cuz it's simply not been on my radar 😄 Didn't even know what indie makeup meant until I found these channels.

[@haleymist09]

When Hanna said she never heard if Live Journal 😭

[@leaflaurel]

When she said she didn't know what LJ was, I was like, ahhh she's actually a baby, lol.

[@kalehead0075]

@@TheAdrift or Xanga?!

[@juliencrean]

oh i've been WAITING for this one - turn it up!!!

[@Snobbunny]

I used to religiously only buy Lime Crime cosmetics 7-8 years ago and i was fully obsessed. I remember getting a letter in the mail about the breach and as a teenager i was fucking terrified LOL. I still have a lot of their products in a bottom makeup drawer I haven't touched in years, but it's sad how problematic they were because their velvetine lipsticks were legit the best lipstick I've ever tried, but I just couldn't support Doe.

[@lexa_itm]

I remember buying one of their lipsticks in late 2015/early 2016 and I really hated it. I still don’t know to this day if I got a dud or if it just didn’t work for me. I remember it being dryer than Kylie’s lipsticks

[@priiiiii1]

it's honestly 11 pm in my country and i'm debating whether i should watch the entire video. ngl the intro sounds promising!

[@mallshoggoth]

yeah I have to say, the issues with Lime Crime and Doe Deer were very well known in the alternative fashion community as far back as maybe 2014-2015, maybe before? (my memory is not the best sorry) and I think the reasons why this wasn't known to the mainstream makeup community is maybe just that that wasn't their customer base initially

[@robinb.6711]

We knew as early as 2003-2004.

[@mikotomisaka7400]

Yes!!! I was watching another of your videos (the rachel hollis one) and i was so excited to see a new video! especially an evolution of!! love the new intro as well

[@crazydiamond1273]

Hey! Russian here. Actually, you're doing a good job pronouncing her name considering it's probably spelled like Xenia. But in fact, it's Ksenia ("e" pronounced like a very open æ sound). You're doing great! Don't worry about pronouncing something wrong or not 100% accurately.

[@mmlee2213]

THANK YOU for this video!! I've always known there was something fishy with lime crime so I knew not to support them, but I hadn't researched exactly what they had done

[@vannareyne6336]

I really appreciate getting this information. I have fallen in love with some of the palettes, but I knew there was scandal, so I always put it off until I researched it, but I still haven't. I only knew about the credit card scandals. But the racial scandals and theft of ideas are honestly even more important to me. I will never purchase anything from them. For me, I don't care if they step away from the business and no longer profit, I don't even want other companies to buy them out. I actually feel strongly that when businesses are corrupt and racist they should fail. It shouldn't be profitable enough for any company to buy them out, because then we're still ensuring they get money they don't deserve.

[@CrocodileToon_connect]

I completely forgot the whole Temptalia thing - talk about a walk down memory lane. Thanks for the video. Loved it.

[@estellerose9900]

I'm really curious why people were so interested in dressing up like Nazis in the 90s/00s and how that time seems to have been completely forgotten - like, I haven't seen anyone talk about Prince Harry doing it for YEARS, but that used to be one of the main things people criticised him for

[@AppalachianAllegory]

I'm really surprised his grandmother, who literally fought the Nazis, didn't come down harder on him.

[@theshunnedBandersnatch]

It definitely seems to have been a "thing" then and I don't get it. There was even a movie that came out around that time called Neo Ned where Gabrielle Union played a woman who thought she was the reincarnation of Hitler and befriends a neo Nazi (played by Jeremy Renner) who then falls in love with her. Absolutely bizarre.

[@AppalachianAllegory]

@@Neverendingstory78 As a Jewish woman, I don't think any invisible repercussions are enough.

[@stxrstrxckmxteo515]

I think it was part of the counter culture movement of the 2000s. It’s so fascinated bc you see trends, a lot of this stuff happens in the emo punk scenes and niche stuff like that. Goth metal heads etc all those subcultures because that’s where Jeffree Star started out, and then Dahvie Vanity was part of that crowd or scene or whatever, and even the more pop/gay side like Perez Hilton’s and such like all online culture from the 2000s was absolutely the Wild West and it’s seems the most polarizing people were the ones who did all this messed up stuff and ended up becoming the most popular for some reason. It’s weird how this happened again recently with Ayesha Erotica who got doxxed or something and was also super racist ugh I mean even one of the drag queens who won drag race Sharon needles who was totally like part of this scene apparently she also has a racist last like it’s crazy how all of this stuff happened in these communities, and ur sucks cuz there r obviously good people in these communities but the they get a bad rap cuz of a couple of bad apples. ugh

[@taradeem4747]

I am in no way a target client for LC, but I loveeee these videos you post. Fascinating! Love you!

[@sisterrose13]

"The best way I can describe Livejournal, because I had no idea what this was..." Now I want a deep dive on LJ drama, because if I recall correctly, it was the same as current drama in some places. And I think there were equivalents to Drama Channels too, I'm pretty sure Oh No They Didn't! was one.

[@reahsahpagel3354]

okay not only is the subject on point but you’re literally glowing! I love ur look today 🥰

[@alexanderdavidd]

Definetly not justifying Lime Crime’s actions at all, but in their defence, the FDA is 70 years behind in testing cosmetic ingredients. There have been ingredients on Europe’s approved list for 50 years that still aren’t approved by the FDA, and it’s not because the FDA is concerned about them.

[@BritMartin]

omg i have never been so early, glad you're doing this one! because I have always been curious but know nothing about it

[@harperriggs]

During the Doe Deer era, wasn’t she also accused of being dishonest about the ingredients in some of the makeup products? I think I remember hearing about that. I’m still miffed that LC hid Doe Deer’s involvement in the company after she stepped down.

[@tinyowlbear]

i remember hearing about this on tumblr! she had glitters that she sold and it came out she was lying about the source of the glitter (pretty sure they were drop ship glitters) and not entirely eyesafe. i wish i still had the lime crime's crimes masterpost saved.

[@cassafrassbloodshred9551]

@@tinyowlbear they were craft glitter lol

[@tinyowlbear]

@@cassafrassbloodshred9551 yes thank you! i thought i remembered right but the optimist in my brain was like "there is no way she did that" lol

[@harperriggs]

Wow, that nuts! Then again I can’t be surprising considering it was Doe Deer who did it. I’m glad I’m not the only one who remembered that she lied about using unsafe ingredients in the products.

[@phantasmic1000]

I think some of the pigments in the lipsticks were also in hair dye,which is a big no no and they lied about it to the fda and changed them on their website

[@WoolyPronto]

Unrelated, but just wanted to say that your skin is GLOWING, literally looking flawless

[@72dragona]

I was oblivious to any makeup brand having any scandals up until I found this channel. I'm new to makeup and own a lot of makeup by said scandalous companies or persons... Now I know, how sad. I often wonder about many things we purchase that are made by people in horrible working conditions in other countries. Sometimes this all goes even deeper

[@raindancemaggie1290]

i felt so unbelievably old listening to you explain live journal 🤣🤣🤣 i remember that and xanga like it was yesterday 🤣🤣🤣

[@Sofia8687]

I had made a purchase from lime crime for their lipsticks and their lip gloss sale like almost 2 years ago . Honestly I love their lip stuff so much from formula to smell and extremely sturdy and cute packaging . After a year or so I stumbled upon the China pallette scandal and their security breach scandal and was really bummed about that because I use their products literally any time I get out of the house .After I learned that the previous owner had stepped down I think I am okay with buying backups when my lip stuff eventually ends and perhaps giving their blushes a chance or something like that... Glad you made this video it really helped!😊 PS :The amount of compliments for the lip stuff from them I have received is a lot and their smell is just so lovely to have !😅

[@abbyroades5328]

I love your commentary videos, so this was a real treat to see in my notifications! Way before I got into the beauty community and makeup, I found a tumblr that was dedicated to exposing Lime Crime and their scandals; I think this was back in 2012? Anyway, I knew quite a bit about their scandals and what kind of person Doe was. She definitely gave off villainess vibes and it was such fascinating drama. If I remember correctly, the drama at the time was her ripping off Sugarpill and the China Doll palette scandal. I kept up with it until late 2014 when the blog deactivated, and last year when I finally decided to try makeup and get into the beauty community I thought to myself, “hey, is that brand still active?” I’m incredibly relieved that Doe removed herself completely from the company. Doe was never a good person. I liked Lime Crime’s aesthetics but felt so uncomfortable wanting anything from the brand. I still can’t believe she had a following at all even though all evidence pointed to her being a terrible person!

[@k74728]

I see LC at tjmaxx all the time now. This video encouraged me to finally throw out my LC liquid lipsticks that I never wore, but liked the packaging of. I didn’t know how awful the company/Doe were when I bought them.

[@RZTree]

I am excited to watch this video but I first need to say that I LOVE your description boxes. They are always so helpful

[@ourdailybroad8057]

Hearing Hannah explain LJ, where I spent a lot of years, makes me feel old as dirt. :)

[@melaniemedina2871]

Hannah has finally convinced me to try out Ouai. Her hair ALWAYS looks amazing