The Evolution Of RC Tracks

[@paulmcdowall9693]

Another factor is racing in the US is more commercial, they are run as businesses. In the UK the tracks are run as clubs with annual membership (approx £30) and a small fee to practice and race (£10-15). Track maintenance is done by the members and is purely voluntary so the easier to maintain the track is the better.

[@Virgin4lyfe420]

Exactly how my local tracks are here in Idaho lol

[@xXYannuschXx]

Same here in Germany. But the hobby in general isnt as popular here anymore, so that might also explain it.

[@paulmcdowall9693]

​@Virgin4lyfe420 is that the norm though in the US?

[@thegreattreon0177]

Seeing how good these modern buggies handle is mind blowing! It's like they're basically touring cars with bigger wheels!

[@flyfishbrad]

Thanks brother. Brings back some awesome memories growing up. I found this video while stumbling for track ideas for my yard. I live in Florida. Our dirt isn't dirt. It's dirty sand. Not ideal for RC track surface. I'm on a search for some used turf and/or carpet as we speak. Thanks for the info.

[@mampe4122]

Recently got back into rc racing after a long break. All the previous racing was on outdoor loose dirt tracks, or packed dirt indoor tracks. Never raced on a modern sealed dirt track. But lately I've been racing on carpet and love it. Soooo much cleaner and more consistent than any dirt track.

[@RazorRC]

Great video! Loved the NCH shoutout. NCH was clay up until 3 years ago, but wasn’t sealed so it was always a struggle to have the exact tire depending on the surface condition that minute. I’d have to have 3 sets of tires ready at all times (between electrons and primes).

[@bonesracin57]

Isnt thats what its about? Tune for current conditions

[@AsurasWrath164]

​@@bonesracin57but only on a reasonable level

[@chocolateapocalypse]

In the late 90's when we started running slicks locally (and at MnM in SoCal) we would use truck foams in buggy tires front and rear. The stock buggy foams had too much give so we'd cut down truck foams to the width of a buggy rim, trim the inner and outer edges then mount. This gave a very round, stiff carcass and you just used sauce as needed. More straight line traction, sauce right down the middle, more traction in corners, sauce the inside or outside of the tire. If felt very strange Dremeling smooth a fresh set of M3 Square Fuzzies but it was the hot ticket back then. Great vid!

[@caseedwards3017]

This was a very informative and funny video 😂. I run both indoor clay and loose outdoor 1/10, SDRC and The Dirt JR. SDRC is super fun and never have to worry about traction but the outdoor stuff is the most fun I have ever had in 1:10. In my opinion track owners are doing there best to make a living and accommodating for the racers, with rising minimum wage having an extra guy just to water and maintain the track is a tough pill to swallow so the move to these clay and carpet is the only way. Cheers

[@guest6423]

Your videos are really well done, a refreshing break from the norm. I appreciate the sanity. It has been a long time since I last raced, and while I appreciate the improvements in reliability of the equipment, I'm not so excited about clay and carpet for off road. Every time a competitive series follows the whims of the racers, it becomes less accessible, more expensive, and less appealing to new racers. I went to the local track, after being away from racing for over 30 years. Still there, same club. And the outdoor track is still the same packed sandy soil it always was. It breaks down, gets rough, and requires a lot of thought about line choice. Me and my rear-motor RB will be back out there soon. I really appreciate that my local club has kept it 'scale'.

[@perfectsplit5515]

2:37 - Classic Tamiya Avante stock tire.

[@Petriefied0246]

Please don't be offended by my "colonies" reference, my girlfriend is an Australian and football there is Aussie Rules Football, which is really just a fight with a ball. They call football soccer there. Love the content ❤️

[@hazethehides]

As always, a great video! The wife and I listened to it on the way home from a long weekend, and so it was a surprise and great fun when the user submitted comments turned up, and mine was one of them. Happy to have contributed, even as little as it was!

[@tonywright8294]

Ho ho that was so amusing ! Wanker

[@lcpeterbilt379]

i race on dirt outdoors, part of the game is dealing with the changes the track goes through. part of the skill required is knowing when its ok to get offline. i have only ever raced on dirt and i (in my opinion) makes you a better driver.

[@TranceFur]

My local offroad tracks are still pretty natural, and I will admit that it’s sometimes difficult to find the right tire. I’ve got a big-ass box of tires, some of which I’ve used once, didn’t like, and only used a few times. So that kind of sucks, but I think it’s overall worth it for the thrill of driving on a surface that rewards getting the perfect oversteer around a tight corner. Backing it into a corner at 40 mph, hitting the throttle and slingshotting around the apex might be the most satisfying feeling in the world, haha. Super high grip tracks are fun for a change, but I think I might get bored of them after a while.

[@k3nndog459]

Left rc when amain closed their old indoor dirt track that was next to their old warehouse. Came back this year to amains new indoor carpet track. And love it. I get it Offroad is dirt but it’s nice having the ability to show up every weeks to a different layout so easily.

[@user-rj6io9wi8h]

"Which logo do you like the look of" That made me laugh so hard because it's 100% true.

[@Petriefied0246]

Same

[@caseys_cozy_garage]

Lovee this video. I've been RC crawling competitively but I love learning about the competitive racing

[@SpinRush]

OH YOu featured Yatabe Arena in your video. That's where I race. It's Tsukuba RC now. That brought back memories.

[@danatinnel3758]

I loved the line,”which logo do you like better” hahaha is pretty true

[@ryanshroll5206]

Love the videos. Keep up the good work! Would love to see more of your races with some vlog style and going over setups and heartaches as they’re happening

[@bluegroovemodelsports9650]

Very well researched content as usual. Great video. Thanks for sharing

[@mrchris84]

I love my local non sealed out door dirt track. Every week is a new track XD

[@MrMaPierce]

Fantastic. My primary gripe with indoor clay is the tire sauce, that shit is gross (TDK not included). Astro and carpet in my region still allow sauce but it's limited to SXT which I still dislike, at least it doesn't stink like PB blaster and liquid wrench. Keep up the good work.

[@Luke-en2tk]

Great video. The 1/10th offroad UK outdoor tracks haven't really changed very much between the late 90's and present day. You would have to go back to the mid 90's or even earlier for this. I started racing in 1996 and at that time it was mostly grass tracks that we raced on usually with wooden ramps which were very slippery especially if it rained. The main problem with most grass tracks at the time was that they would deteriorate a lot as the day went on, usually turning into mud come the finals. If it rained, which it quite often did they were nearly undriveable and lasting the 5 mins duration especially with a 4wd buggy which was the class I raced in became nearly impossible. Then we had the birth of multi surface tracks, these were mostly astroturf, with say a mix of cobbled, concrete and asphalt sections which caused very high tyre wear as the cars were very heavy back then. There were some completely astroturf tracks around but these were mostly just for outdoor winter racing as indoor carpet racing was only really done by some clubs and were quite often multi class racing with onroad cars which either had no jumps or small ones that could be removed easily. I guess the explosion with the carpet racing is because the weather and the consistency of the track, so very similar to what you said about the latest sealed dirt tracks.

[@hughnelson7492]

Funny about the slicks, I remember late 90's to Early 2000's. Used to run at SoCal RC in Huntington Beach. (was usually more associated team driver also since near Associated by a few miles) I would see guys take other worn out used tires and wonder why. Well MnM Hobbies (more Losi drivers there as closer to original Losi) would run slicks worn out tires as worked best. No complaints I would hear. This was still brushed cars. b3 xx/xxx series cars. still 5-6 year before brushless. The other fun one is a friend at Associated when the SC!0 came out was set to be a loose traction slide around corners like the rear Stadium short course trucks. Everyone right away were demanding traction and making them drive to be on rails. I for one don't care the surface. SO it's carpet. depending the reason say a gymnasium or some place rents you a day to have a track. carpet and made jumps or no jumps you have a race surface. a dedicated dirt track outdoors is a lot of expensive real Estate now. Heck even OCRC paid a premium to be indoors. so to keep that. But to me. if there is a way to race or play rc on a track. Don't care the surface. It's the fun and enjoyment of doing it.

[@verigone2677]

Building a small scall RC Motor park in my backyard. I have the 1/14 Dirt oval almost done and began work on the 1/24 crawler park, once I have the oval and crawlerpark dialed in I am going to extend the 1/14 Dirt Oval into a rally style circuit since I have an oddly shaped area to work with I can't make a more traditional Short course. I already made a 1/24 on road system to run drift cars that I can tear down and setup in a standard 2 car garage in about 30 minutes...hoping to find a way to make my shed a viable place to setup the drift track...lol. After the hell that has been removing 1/4 acre of grass on the side of a hill, I am almost certain the jumps will be wood covered in outdoor carpet just so that I can still stand to enjoy my track when it is done...lol.

[@warracer03]

Great video as always ! Love the history lessons. I'll make one commentary on video editing , the footage from 7:08 was nauseating for me since the frame rate was really odd when you look at the trees, no idea what could cause that but I had to go audio only for that part haha.

[@RoachRC]

I apologize for that. The video render desynchronized with the video from my GoPro. I'll be sure to double check it next time.

[@Pablo668]

Good vid. Very informative. I'm a bit surprised that the racing surface can actually be controversial.

[@DirtConcept]

I don’t think the racing surface is the controversial aspect as much as the fact that manufacturers abandon support for kits and tires for tracks that have not or can’t transition to hard packed clay or carpet/astro. Most tracks are not high bite. However, the tracks that are high bite are the ones that get all the publicity. It’s an interesting predicament…

[@jakedavid8187]

The world's event at yatambe (sp) was on some type of turf in the 90s too. At least as I remember it being talked about as such. I could be wrong but car action described it as some surface that wasn't dirt.

[@benstutley2904]

Excellent well researched video @RoachRC! Great subject & it does create a good conversation! Sharing our RC experiences is much more useful than saying one is better than the other etc, and it's really interesting to hear US track evolution over the years that I wasn't aware of, especially the sealed tracks, I knew about sugared clay, but not the shaping & pre- gluing, it makes a lot of sense! not having driven clay with slicks, it does sound like a scale version of asphalt almost akin to touring car/f1 levels of grip, just with the 3D of jumps? A somewhat related question for future use maybe... I currently run two Schumacher Cougar Laydowns, one for Dry Astro, one for Wet, basically for when outdoor astro just turns on you- Usually when the sun goes down over here, it can really turn on a dime, I wondered if you guys run multiple builds of the same car over there for changing conditions? Secondly, every other week I have to convert my Dry car for carpet, I do have friends with slightly deeper pockets, who have Dry, Wet & Carpet cars. - is this a thing you guys do thing in the US- or to your subscribers further afield as well? Thanks for the shout-out dude, and keep up the Good Work! Happy Racing my Friend:! )

[@benstutley2904]

-any way I I can share vids of my racing with you on the socials Roach? - I won my first carpet off-road on Friday & still buzzing ☺️… -it’s on YT but not my channel…

[@RoachRC]

Thanks for your insight Ben. To answer your question about people running multiple cars for different surfaces, yes people do do that if they have deep enough pockets. You'll usually have a Carpet car, a Dirt Car, along with a Stock Car and a Mod car. This is only really the case with 10th scale as 8th scale tracks are *always* dirt so there's no need to have different cars for different surfaces. Also we don't really run in the rain too often so there's no need for a wet car either.

[@benstutley2904]

@@RoachRC always interesting comparing notes, Hope my thoughts didn’t come across as prescriptive or patronising. Just sharing RC experience’s dude, well worth talking about in terms of world championships! - tongue in cheek comment though- I did see a NR/CTP RC Truck Pull world championship vid tonight, I do have to ask if you guys ever invite the rest of the world to your world championship’s? -it’s just amusing from abroad 😊🤘 RC track history is a great subject, & covered well Roach, be in touch dude! 🤘

[@RoachRC]

DMs are always open😄

[@benstutley2904]

@@RoachRC Nice One!

[@JaysHobbys]

Great video. A little Constructive criticism, Not sure on your recording/screen capturing process but it seems like your frame rate is mismatched. At least on my TV it is a bit painful to watch some of the video due to the frame rate mismatch. Might try rendering a video like this at 24ish fps? Like I said not sure on your process but hay might help improve the quality on some of your videos. Other then that great video and information.

[@RoachRC]

Ok so I looked into why this was. For some reason the video rendered at 30fps, not 24. I'll be sure to double check next time around

[@JaysHobbys]

@@RoachRC Hay mistakes happen. You put out good and informative videos, quality video would just elevate this and hopefully help grow your channel. The work and time you put into these videos you deserve the growth.

[@SeanLewisMedia]

FIrst off this video was great, and you were on point with years and styles forsure haha. Man I miss primes lol. I got started racing 2wd buggy at Pegasus Hobbies in 2012 and we were going through a fresh set of m3 holeshots ever raceday on the outdoor surface they had. Those were the days. Since then OCRC is gone, Pegasus gone, LRH gone and the only thing left in the socal area is a 1/8th track that unfortunately doesnt get as much love as it should. I've gotten into RC Drifting though thats to a dope local track. Ive been making videos there for a few months if your interested! Just subbed to your channel, keep up the awesome work man!

[@ZingZingNZ]

Christchurch New Zealand south island nationals, heaps of sugar. Fun track. Tyres destroyed in 7 mins

[@kennysilvers-z4x]

These days the pros are using AKA softest slick tire with hard inserts. Makes a world of difference.

[@takeiteasy6346]

Great video btw

[@teofeo333]

I'd like to try carpet. Seems more forgiving than clay and quite a bit faster due to grip.

[@VestedUTuber]

Seems like as drivers pushed for more traction and track owners pushed for easier maintenance, the cars were forced to be come more and more specialized and racing became more and more based on your setup and equipment and less on your ability to handle the car. IMHO, this is a REALLY bad thing. The more detached racing cars become from entry-level models and bashers, the less accessible racing becomes for the average person. Even when the B4 was the hot car, you could take a bone-stock B4 Stealth kit or even the RTR and throw it on the track and, while you might have a more difficult time than someone running the factory team kit, you'd still be able to keep up decently well. You'd be VERY hard pressed to do that with an RB10. It's not impossible, in fact MXAcres did a series where he took a Traxxas Bandit and made it capable of competing decently well with modern racing buggies, but he spent a LOT of money and put a LOT of effort into making that car work. It's definitely NOT worth doing that if you're just wanting to race. Dirt was a "great equalizer" that kept the racing kits from getting too insane.

[@wolf16731]

I'm on both sides of the argument. I love loose dirt tracks outdoors, if I had the choice, that's what I'm racing on. But I do understand from a track owner perspective that bills need to be payed, and a true outdoor dirt track leaves a lot of variables to weather conditions and tire costs vs track maintenance overall that may make your profits dwindle to nothing due to cancelled races and less racer turnout. That is a very unstable margin to handle financially so I understand that side of the argument as well.

[@perfectsplit5515]

My idea is to have a racing class that would limit the size of the motor diameter to that of the RS-380S motor (stock on the Tamiya Grasshopper). That way, the cars would get slower, the tracks could be smaller, the collisions would be fewer, and there would be fewer broken parts due to collision. While the motor companies could still stay at the cutting edge of technology.

[@VestedUTuber]

That would only be a temporary fix until the manufacturers start putting out stupidly powerful RS-380 sized inrunners. Assuming they don't just start pushing outrunners with tall gearing instead since there are already some seriously powerful outrunners in that size on the market.

[@perfectsplit5515]

@@VestedUTuber That is a speculative argument. My proposal would be equivalent to the rule in some full-size racing classes that limit the engine displacement to 2 liters.

[@VestedUTuber]

@@perfectsplit5515 It's not speculative, the trends speak for themselves. Motors becoming more and more powerful _despite_ the restrictions is what's already been happening in the 17.5 and 13.5 stock classes, there's no reason to think it _wouldn't_ happen with your proposed "mini-stock" class. It's also what happened with 27t Brushed Stock and 19t brushed spec, outside of silver-can classes. All you're doing is creating yet another stock class. Those aforementioned "silver can" classes, where everyone runs the EXACT same motor supplied by the event hosts, will do what you're wanting your proposal to do way better than your proposal will. I don't want to appeal to experience but I need to ask... do you have any actual experience with RC racing, or more specifically knowledge of the various classes that already exist, or are you coming in blind? Just wondering, since if you knew about the various stock classes that exist or have existed in the past you would have known that what you're suggesting has effectively already been done in a different way.

[@Lost_Hwasal]

I’m new to rc but I feel like we lost something from the loose dirt track days. That said I get why the changes occurred.

[@hesssus]

i have in my stampede(what i made to a shortcourse) a very worn out slics (they used to not be slics)

[@noahsathletics]

In asphalt sedan, we would go thru a set of tires once per race.

[@takeiteasy6346]

BRING BACK REAL DIRT

[@perfectsplit5515]

It’s too bad the loose dirt tracks of the 80s were such a pain to maintain, and were prone to so many problems. They were the most realistic. My track used a prickly doormat on a carpet track and ramps to “simulate” the off-road experience.

[@VestedUTuber]

20:26 - Ok, I'm going to stop you there, I'm not _disagreeing_ but I don't even think that a loud _majority_ would even have enough sway to change that, because at the end of the day, the only people that really have a say in track surfaces are the track owners, the governing bodies and to a lesser extent the factory drivers. Sure, the local drivers could stop racing, but in response the track owner would more likely just shut their track down and claim "no interest in racing" rather than putting in the money and effort to rebuild the track back to dirt or clay. And the factory drivers aren't going to budge, they like what they like. The governing bodies don't seem to care, though IFMAR does seem at least a little receptive to feedback - not enough to change anything though. So, for those who want to see off-road go back to dirt, the solution really is to "be the change you want to see". Find some buddies in the hobby, pool your resources, buy some land or rent out an old warehouse or storefront and build a track the way you want. Separate topic, as for the direction we're headed for, with a combination of increasing land costs/rent and increasing hostility towards any sort of hobbyists by the general public and local politicians, it seems to be "no track".

[@jamdiversified9698]

Roads aren't made out of astroturf, so it's still off-road racing.....

[@andrewmasaberg1116]

Anyone else hear the whistle when he talks?

[@jocodashcam295]

I get the argument for being “off road”, but if you really wanted scaled racing, you need to scale the surface. The average grain of sand is 0.1mm, which at 1/10th scale is 1 cm, which is almost gravel, scaled speaking.

[@mgscheue]

Isn’t it 1 mm?

[@adrastos123]

Hope they get away from carpet and turf. Not fun point and shoot. Track in my area going to that then having dumb rules like nothing over 13.5 in 4wd buggy (grrc) and other. Alot of these tracks fizzle out after the switch