The Fascinating Aerodynamics of Bike Touring and Bikepacking

[@Cyclingabout]

It’s good to be back with some tech content! ⚡️ So, why aren’t I aero-optimised when I travel? Well, my average speed is usually

[@saurabhsonic]

Great info! As I was watching the video, I immediately wanted to ask you the questions about your setup as it violates almost all of the rules of aerodynamics and drag. But you already pre-answered them in this comment! There should also be a "happiness" coefficient taken into consideration! lol.

[@Cyclingabout]

I'm really looking forward to the time I can next apply these aero principles. It's not conducive to my cross-continental trips, but will be handy when I'm on lots of shorter/faster adventures in Australia next year.

[@antoniocruz8083]

Speed isn't everything but it really depends on where you tour. In Australia surely you need to move fast to cover the long distances. In Europe, if you move too fast you will likely bypass beautiful villages. I forcefully learned the joys of slow touring when I took my wife along, waking up late, long meals and detours to all interesting sites made for the best tour ever. The idea is not to cover as much distance as possible but cover as little as possible without being bored and for that any bag setup will do.

[@mdennen]

Yes thanks for quantifying your set up- Ill be on mostly road 15-20 mph so some of this some of that....

[@paperboi4311]

@@Cyclingabout Alee always in the back of the mind thinking about speed. A natural racer!

[@lavapix]

I've got to be the most un-aerodynamic bike rider ever. Seeing I ride for exercise it means I get a better workout in a shorter amount of time.

[@Cyclingabout]

You may as well drag a boat anchor behind the bike too. You could cut your ride time in half!

[@lavapix]

@@Cyclingabout I used to put a car battery on my back rack to make hill climbing more challenging. Way more practical vs dragging an anvil 🤙

[@Cyclingabout]

Ha... love it.

[@dnbqup]

@@lavapix I'm just imagining you dragging an anvil on a chain down the road, with sparks flying as it scrapes along the tarmac, waking up your neighbors at 6am on a Saturday.

[@pomegranatepip2482]

@@Cyclingabout not productive for those of us trying to slipstream him.......

[@derekperkins7343]

I knew something good would come from me cycling so slowly- air resistance is a minor problem. Result!

[@ClockCutter]

Heh. Nice.

[@beandob]

It's called "efficiency"

[@jeffreyulery2182]

Lol work slower not harder.

[@lonepecheurboussac1249]

i doubt i do ten mile n hour fat n slow i go lol

[@frbrable]

Yup, "spin, don't push" is the way to go.

[@patthecat6491]

Generally I'm not a frequent tourer/bike packer, but in December I did a 2 week trip with only a saddle bag for gear, and was pretty happy with the overall performance and speed. Enjoyed the video.

[@MTMiser]

Great video and something I've often wondered about. I recently switched from the typical 4-pannier-plus-handlebar-bag-and-dry-bag-on-the-rear-rack touring setup on a converted mountain bike to a bikepacking setup on a road bike. The difference was incredible, but it was as much about the weight drop as it was the aerodynamics. Overall, the bikepacking setup was 40 lbs. (18 kg) lighter. Of course, I had to eliminate a lot of gear that I used to tour with simply because there was nowhere to put it with the bikepacking setup. I found that I didn't miss most of that stuff at all, and the riding was much more enjoyable than before, especially when climbing steep hills. For many years I saw no reason to change my previous setup simply because I was capable of handling that much weight and wind resistance while still enjoying the tour. But as I aged, it became more and more of a struggle. The bikepacking setup lets me fully enjoy touring again.

[@choanlpoto]

Lol nothing to do with setup,more with bad preparation. 18kg of junk 😂

[@MTMiser]

@@choanlpoto One person's junk is another person's treasure. Prep was fine and I had been touring with that much weight for 26 years with no problem, until a tour I did at 68 years old. That prompted me to go light, so I could keep touring into old age.

[@TenFalconsMusic]

The bikepacking set-up is a quantum leap forward for efficiency and a more comfortable ride. Like you, I had to lose a few litres of space, but I didn't need that kitchen sink anyway.

[@lauig]

First time i'm watching one of your vids, and I'm so pleased that you didn't elude any of the shortcomings of steady state windtunnel testings or CFD analysis in comparison with real world data. Glad also the first series of tests you conducted was done in an outdoor velodrome with a lot more chances for the conditions to be approximating real world situations with a bit of turbulence still in there. You've more than earned my sub, sir !

[@Cyclingabout]

I'm glad you liked it! I'll hopefully do many more videos like this while I cannot freely explore the world on my bike.

[@gaypreator8547]

My takeaway, if I’m ‘bike packing’, two things. 1)-I’ll leave earlier. 2) I’ll remind myself at the start of each section; this is not a race. Summary, enjoy your ride.

[@paymanjanbakhsh2971]

Your videos this one and others are incredibly well done, you address the subjects with data, facts, and studies. Thank you for your comprehensive and informative videos. Please keep making them. Cheers!

[@mennodekhuyzen7523]

I did two 6 months trips on a recumbent 20.000 km and I loved it. With sometimes a lot of luggage my recumbent was made for these trips! Next trip will be bikepacking the GDMBR on a “normal” bike. An other trip will be on a Brompton. There are a lot of reasons to use a different bicycle for different trips. Interesting video, thanks!

[@eeeckful]

All of your videos are so extremely packed with so extremely researched, valuable information. Extremely awesome!

[@Cyclingabout]

Glad you like them!

[@VAMIRACING]

very interesting! my take home message here is: two backpacks are just fine, providing you got enought of a belly

[@123cp8]

I love your data-driven interpretation!!! This is just good science! Kudos, dude!!!

[@Cyclingabout]

More to come!

[@MoyMacGill]

Love the science in your explanation of your topics

[@LucaMatteis]

Great information as always. As a relatively slow tourer myself I think I favor comfort rather than efficiency. Would be interesting to see how a more upright position for long rides impacts on performance since an open chest can definitely improve breathing.

[@Cyclingabout]

Comfort and efficiency are not mutually exclusive! More fitted clothes, as opposed to baggy clothes, are a perfect example of this. As are more in-line bags on your bike (provided you do not need the capacity). I'm not so sure there are big differences in terms of lung capacity whether you use a narrow drop bar or wide flat bar. I haven't yet looked through the scientific literature, so if you've seen something interesting - link it through!

[@cwr8618]

I agree on the curiosity. Over time your neck and back and shoulders hurt trying to be aerodynamic

[@petesig93]

A more upright position is actually a better thing for faster hill-climbing. Sitting up frees your quads to spin the legs easier. I ride up a local steep climb about 2kmh faster by sitting more upright, and even just steering with one hand.

[@AlveHenricson]

What I learnt from this is that I should keep touring with my velomobile 😁 No need to sitt uncomfortable and no unnecessary wind drag 😉 I'm glad you mentioned the recumbent bike at the end 👍

[@Cyclingabout]

If you're optimising around efficiency, it's hard to beat a recumbent!

[@TC-yx1qt]

I've searched all over Google and KZbin.. does nobody do long distance multi continent touring in velomobiles? I'm talking outside of mainland Europe and the USA. Central and South America? Asia? Africa?

[@AlveHenricson]

@@TC-yx1qt Velomobiles are only good on very good roads and could be ridden anywhere but not on bad roads and gravel. Then they are not easy to transport on trains or planes. You can find a velonaut going from China to Germany here. www.202020.eu

[@taufikabidin412]

​@@AlveHenricson I think that's not completely true. Just like a car, there are cars for smooth tarmac, and there are cars for tough off road tours. It just happens nobody has built a velomobile for rough touring yet.

[@AlveHenricson]

@@taufikabidin412 True, but thought the video was about high speeds, and you can not keep high speed on gravel roads regardless of the type of bike.

[@timdixo]

A beautifully put together piece with some great take homes,you’re clearly something of a guru. Also would love to know the drag variances with subtle changes in hand/bar position eg 42cm vs 46cm gravel bars,hands on hoods with optimised elbow flexion vs a standard hoods position etc etc. Most studies I’ve seen gloss over this aspect simply testing the tops/hoods/drops

[@Mike-vd2qt]

Neat, interesting video. Recumbent bikes are more aero which is good for downhills and flats, but as soon as a bike tourist hits a long mountainous uphill, the aero gains are wiped out.

[@taufikabidin412]

but with trikes and quads, you dont need to balance and have that comfort, plus wih faired ones like Velomobiles, you are protected from weather

[@cleveland2286]

@@taufikabidin412 tricycles mean you cannot take turns as quickly as you could on a bicycle because you can no longer lean. Which imo takes a lot of fun out of riding.

[@taufikabidin412]

@@cleveland2286 there are leaning trikes kzbin.info/www/bejne/m16neoqkqMlgiNE

[@slowfox532]

I have learned a lot and now I am thinking about a windshield for my touring bike. Years ago someone put just a simple umbrella for children in front of his bike with remarable success in aerodynamics. He only used this setup in case of strong headwind.

[@MauroSilva312]

Every video of yours that I watch I learn something new and relevant. it's amazing. Congratulations! Greetings from Brazil!

[@danielkamberelis8265]

Thank you for making this video, very informative.

[@SantoRedentor]

Thank you for another rigurous and nerdy video ;). I love this content!

[@andriesb619]

Brilliant video. Lots of information in a limited amount of time. Keep up the good work!

[@Cyclingabout]

Much appreciated!

[@MTBIKEXC]

At 4:36, what is that rack? I need something that could hold panniers on a mountain bike with no rack mounts. Thanks!

[@Cyclingabout]

It's called a Tailfin.

[@thediscombobulationzonecov6972]

Late to the party, but how effective would a recumbent bike with a trailer be at wind resistance? Great video!!

[@JonPrevost]

"Pick a path and get in-line." hehehehe. I very much enjoy that the most pedal efficient is the lazy recumbent, briefly mentioned at the end. Less efficient when you realize how difficult it is to keep going straight at low speeds because the moment of inertia from the tire contact patch is so much lower... but yeah, and the fact that for touring it's really unsafe not being able to see traffic from such a low position. Great content and very enjoyable to see you working with the science to give some gentle insight on the aero advantages that most of us could benefit from. Thank you.

[@viveviveka2651]

I liked my time in Oaxaca. There was a nice feeling about the place. There is a quiet inner chamber in one on the more out-of-the-way hilltop Zapotec pyramids. It was worth experiencing.

[@Pelis_Chilangobythesea]

This is the Best Video I have ever seen in KZbin.

[@Cyclingabout]

Glad it has made it to the top of your rankings!

[@russellmoore1533]

When I was into Audax and cycle touring some years ago I made myself a set of aero panniers that included two smaller aero front panniers, two larger aero rear panniers, a rear aero rack top bag and a front aero handle bar bag with a concealed aero bar that could be raised up so I could go into a tuck position. Depending on the trip/s I used some all all of them at any one time. They are were made out of a lightweight rip stop canvas with plastic sheeting inserted into them to keep their teardrop shape. In fact I still have them and anyone is welcome to have them for free.

[@cwr8618]

This is sweet

[@felipericketts]

Thank you for the in-depth look at aerodynamics. Bottom line for me: you provide information that anyone can use to easily improve efficiency which can be helpful and is never a negative. Take care and stay well :-)

[@Cyclingabout]

Thanks Felipe! I wish people saw it this way. 😅

[@felipericketts]

@@Cyclingabout It's a no-brainer! By the way, Priority has upgraded the specs for the 600x bike I had mentioned a while back. The bike will have Wren front suspension and a kickstand. The Wren seems like quite an upgrade to me. Maybe a bike worth considering for inclusion in your book. Not trying to sell anything here. It just seems like a good deal. :-)

[@Cyclingabout]

I didn't see the fork change, and honestly don't really know much about Wren. I thought about the 600X for the book, but it looks like some pre-orders still won't have been fulfilled until late in 2021, so better to save it for 2022.

[@wildcaravan]

What is the brand of bags in the thumbnail? Looks pretty slick! Are the behind the seat bags effective on a drop post? Thanks for all your informative videos!

[@jerrymiller276]

So we've finally proved what everyone already knew. The more comfortable you are on a bike, the slower you are.

[@jerrymiller276]

P.S. I ride a tadpole trike and tow a trailer when touring, so that makes me infinitely slow. Especially when I stop to take a nap midday without even getting out of the seat.

[@Cyclingabout]

Not necessarily true. I'm just as comfortable riding my road and gravel bikes long distances as I am riding my touring bike. And those bikes allow for a lower CdA. Plus, half of this video was about luggage and clothing, two things that won't change your comfort levels!

[@AlveHenricson]

Wrong. What we learned is that we should use velomobiles for fast travelling.

[@jerrymiller276]

@@Cyclingabout You are speaking of comfort relative to bikes in general. Trikes are among the most comfortable pedal machines out there. But I can wear clothing that is comfortable anywhere on or off the trike and doesn't look dorky. And I don't need a maxi-pad to protect my delicate parts, always more comfortable and no numbness at the end of a century ride. I'm an older guy and tend to wait out the heat of the day napping in a shady spot. I can do it sitting on the seat of my trike. It helps if I have something to prop my feet up on, but is not really necessary. If you don't think that is more comfortable, try taking a nap on your bike. Comfortable but slow. Slower but most comfortable. But you missed the whole point: the comment was a joke, not meant to be takens seriously by any means. I'm slow anyway, no matter what I ride. But I don't really care since I'm a tourist, not a racer, and don't set daily distance goals. I like to do six hours of turning the pedals and start to look for a place to camp for the night. I'm retired so I don't care how long it takes me. I can stop and smell and photograph the flowers, see the sights, like Mammoth Cave, Bryce Canyon, The Cosmosphere in Hutchinson, KS, etc without changing my clothes or walking funny. The cost is speed while riding, a price I'm quite willing to pay.

[@jerrymiller276]

@@AlveHenricson Can't argue with that! But the damn things are costly. I'd have to give up other toys to be able to justify the price. Plus, I already climb slowly and climbing performance is generally more important than overall speed because most of the flat places aren't truly flat and speed on the downhills cannot make up for time lost climbing. If I lived in one of the prarie states, I'd be more likely to consider it because the mountains there are made of wind. But I live in NC where the hills and mountains are made of the more traditional rock and dirt and you are going either up or down, seldom cruising on the flat, except at the coast, five hours away from me by car. But I get you and would love to be able to justify having one. I'd still choose the trike for touring, though.

[@stijndeklerk]

Damn your giving away my secrets... Some of the best aero gains I've experience was to strap a big round and smooth stuffsack to the underside of the front of my aerobars. My theory is that it worked a bit like a windshield deflecting air up and around my torso, creating a bubble to hide behind. That aerogain from a saddlebag to fill the lowpressure behind the rider is very intresting.

[@user-yy3ki9rl6i]

Can you give a link to where you bought your bag?

[@zer0nix]

Maybe this is a dumb question but in what orientation did you mount it? I take it that it was bound parallel to the ground with the ends pointing in the direction of travel?

[@stijndeklerk]

@@zer0nix It was a plump bag 25cm across and 40 long strapped at a 90degree to the aerobars.

[@Luigi13]

A lot of good information and products you have in your channel. Thank you.

[@LordFata]

Great content as always! Never thought about fenders having possible positive effect on drag. Your video front and back panniers helped me a lot to plan for Norway this August. 9 days of riding 170 km each was enough for aerodynamics to matter a lot. However as I had to run 2 bulky rolls on the fork for tent and sleeping mat, which are about as aerodynamic as 2 front panniers, I went for back panniers instead of saddle bag. With mostly cold days and terrible rain, I was so glad to be able to remove the bags quickly and had some extra space for comfort food. Well worth the slightly worse aerodynamics. Noticable drag on decents compared to my unloaded bike. Barely had to brake, which during touring is a win in my book.

[@cwr8618]

Sounds awesome!!! Man 180 km / day over 9 days sounds gnarly!!!

[@Erhard242]

"Without luggage you're about as aerodynamic as a cube." Showing a Cube bike at 1:28. Ha! Your presentation was very entertaining and extremely informative at the same time! Keep up the good work!

[@andahoy3734]

All we need to know about bicycle aerodynamic in one video, thank you

[@chazlyle41]

I LOVE the numerical data along with real world experience/application in the work you do. You’re the ONLY source for bike data I’ve found to be consistently abundantly helpful! Happy to buy your products knowing how much work goes into all of this information. Are you an engineer by chance? Ha

[@Cyclingabout]

Wow, thanks Chaz! I'm not an engineer but did well at physics/maths/science at high school. If I wasn't a full-time bike nerd, I'd probably be optimising cities as a strategic planner (my trade). I'm still pretty passionate about that stuff, especially bike infrastructure.

[@chazlyle41]

@@Cyclingabout Well, I'll surely be purchasing your products and sharing your content. I've never seen another resource (other than looking up studies and compiling them myself) that satisfies those who want more details and data than just opinions and adjectives ha. I'm the weirdo that makes spreadsheets of data before a purchase. Try asking a car salesman the drag coefficient just for fun sometime haha! Thanks again and keep it up! Finally, content that intrigues and informs the brain! Thank you!

[@Cyclingabout]

Check out a video on the VW XL1 if you want to see some low drag numbers for a car! It's an amazing feat of engineering; the Cd is 0.159. 😍

[@ajwilliams7757]

This is amazing! It is awesome to see quantitative information.

[@Cyclingabout]

More to come! 🤘🏼

[@Merlmabase]

I love it. One of the most dedicated, data-driven cycling youtubers looks at a recumbent and is like, lol nah

[@GrzegorzK_gg]

OMG ! I'm so happy I'm fat. There is no difference if I use front or back or bikepcking or nothing, I'm slow anyway :):) But seriously - great job, great video. Thanks!

[@TwoWheelRover]

Cool Stuff! The fender info was particularly interesting. I have always felt a mental benefit from removing my fenders in the summer. Its nice to know that it was psychosomatic haha

[@Cyclingabout]

Speed changes really depend on your fender length and setup! If you aren't shielding the front of the wheel and there is a lot of fender width popping out over the side of the wheel, it's definitely slower. 😉

[@samuelbino7915]

The weight alone of the fenders will slow you down

[@TwoWheelRover]

@@samuelbino7915 meh. Im too heavy to worry about that.

[@Cyclingabout]

@@samuelbino7915 Only when you are climbing.

[@markowsley4954]

Interesting video, lots of good information. I would be curious to see if anyone could make a lightweight rigid pannier set that would also be more aero. Some motorcycle panniers are more aero than others and you can notice a handling and mpg difference with them.

[@rohansully584]

recumbent plug at the end. Classic :D

[@wanderingbox7971]

sales will go thru the roof...🚲🤦🏻‍♂️🤣

[@Biking360]

This is absolute gold and exactly what I was looking for. As always the content and presentation are superb. Thank you. JP

[@BangTheRocksTogether]

"Based on my calculations..." Ahhhh.... Alee is making calculations again, and all is well in the world. Thank you again for having the skills and patience.

[@MarcMallary]

A friend of mine made a front fabric, aerofoil for Winter. It keeps his hands warmer too.

[@beanboy6993]

Could you do a video on bike touring while vegan? Particularly about language barriers and cultural differences.

[@Cyclingabout]

I will hopefully get something up over the next few months, it has been on my mind. 👍🏻

[@beanboy6993]

@@Cyclingabout thanks :)

[@Cyclingabout]

@@svenlima lol what?

[@JimEatsPlants]

@@svenlima humans are made of flesh too, that doesn't mean you should eat them.

[@Minecraftrok999]

@@svenlima That's the most stupid statement I've ever heard... Why are humans made of flesh if you shouldn't eat them?

[@FunBotan]

Looking at your T-shirt makes me wonder if we'll ever get a guide for how to eat in a bike tour...

[@Cyclingabout]

I have one on my website! www.cyclingabout.com/guide-bicycle-touring-vegan-travel/

[@FunBotan]

@@Cyclingabout great!

[@fuckurpronouns5768]

@@sirensynapse5603 what about live animals?

[@pomegranatepip2482]

Just put food into your mouth, chew and swallow. No different from eating anywhere else.

[@utharkruna1116]

Can't be very healthy at all.

[@SoulStyla]

someone knows what he is putting on the bike at 4:35 ? i am actually looking for something like that so i can attach a bag to my bike

[@Cyclingabout]

Tailfin Aeropack

[@kamandi]

when is your special presentation on recumbent bikepacking coming out?

[@taufikabidin412]

probably needs a sponsor, looking if Velomobielnl gives him a quattrovelo

[@GR_BackingTracks]

Thanks! Sounds like my best bet is to add a rear fender and one of those behind the seat bags, with maybe an underbar bag if I can fit it. I'm a total newb to distance riding, so any decent info helps tons.

[@goku445]

This channel needs to grow!

[@Cyclingabout]

I've had 100K new subscribers in the last year! I'm pretty happy with its growth. 😎

[@goku445]

@@Cyclingabout Thanks for the great content. Love the scientific approach. Happy to see you're vegan as well!

[@johncramer8524]

Thanks for the informative and technical info, absolutley love the nitty gritty side of your up loads, can you tell me where you accquired the handlebars?. Thanks.

[@DirectorLJ]

Hey! Sorry if I missed this somewhere, but how might one purchase your Koga handlebars? Thanks!

[@Cyclingabout]

Go to Vakantiefietser or CycleSense. 👍🏻

[@hoser7706]

What a fantastic flashback to learning physics but in an interesting way. You spoon-fed us and amazing video of facts!!

[@Cyclingabout]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@TheGolfdaily]

Great summary on the aerodynamics of bicycles. TOP Video.

[@danielpspersonal]

recumbents are the way to go! just by being way more comfortable, that would already justify it, but I would like to see science comparing a touring setup to uprights.

[@anonymoose9038]

as a bike courier who rocks panniers as his daily set up ( i don't like carrying things on my back when i sprint), when riding at 30 kmh+ how much effort do you think I am losing to the wind?

[@Cyclingabout]

8% or so

[@anonymoose9038]

@@Cyclingabout is that front mount? Rear mount? Or both? I'm just curious here, as 8% seems fairly significant.

[@Cyclingabout]

@@anonymoose9038 Well, my test at 30KPH had 6.4% slower and 6.5% slower for two panniers (front or rear) and 8% for four panniers. This was compared to bikepacking bags, but I imagine it would be in that same 6-8% ballpark if you had no bags.

[@lukewalker1051]

Your cycling videos are outstanding.

[@Cyclingabout]

Thanks!

[@markjohnson9495]

I can see why the inline style frame bags, narrow and long rear bags, and slim front bags help keep everything in the plane of your body. You just have to economize on what you carry, and more importantly what you don't carry. Lots of panniers is like having lots of parachutes to drag on you.

[@benc8386]

Great video. It's possible panniers might be better than bikepacking-style bags in a side wind though, because they're in line with each other from the sides.

[@drewkallen]

While frontal area is a shortcoming when riding into head wind, more frontal area "from the rear" may be a benefit when riding with tail wind, including flappy rain jacket, and the more so the greater the wind speed. You might be struggling to push 18-20 km/h on flat ground with rear panniers with a strong head wind, that same wind force as a tail wind can help you easily maintain 30 km/h + for hours. That means you get to your destination roughly much faster... So the amazing trick to achieve these results is to ride in a direction where the wind is blowing in the same direction you are travelling. No need for carbon and titanium and shielded everything... just (a lot of ) patience.

[@PrinceCbass]

I just purchased a rear seat bag and plan to get a triangle bag, top tube bag and possibly a handlebar bag. I think an aerodynamic handlebar bag is the hardest thing to find. I have toyed with the idea of aerobars and a bag like the seat bag up front. I think this might be more aero than none bagged riding but giving me more storage at the same time. Fenders have also crossed my mind for the rainy days and wet roads just to keep things a little cleaner. Running a litespeed gravel drop bar with GRX 800 groupo and 650b wheels with 47c refuse tires. It works great as a road/gravel bike with no gear although the treadless tires aren't the greatest in some more slippery conditions when off road.

[@MusiCaninesTheMusicalDogs]

You not only showed a recumbent, but it was a Performer! Among trikes and bikes, I've got three Performers at home! :D

[@Cyclingabout]

That's awesome!

[@fassphoto]

Thx very much for the Awesome video. 🚴‍♂️😎👍

[@cwr8618]

Love this content but question - why no focus on aero bars? I just rode from Hanam to Incheon, approximately 350 miles, over three days. Part of the journey was with folks with road bikes and one guy with a hybrid. I can say without a doubt, my aero bars saved considerable energy and helped me cut through the air noticeably better than my comrades. Over the 3 day ride I was extremely thankful to have had those bars

[@Cyclingabout]

A lot of water came from streams because were were high enough in the mountains. But I also use a Sawyer Squeeze filter in towns so that I don't have to buy bottled water.

[@sbsb4995]

Another outstanding video.

[@owenllewellyn5692]

Great! The time you save by getting there faster might just make up for the time wasted unpacking and repacking everything from a dozen little stuff sacks.

[@greatvedas]

This is such a brilliant analysis.

[@iainplumtree1239]

loved your conclusion on recumbents!

[@HazardousMoose]

two small nitpicks: - At 1:55 you speak of multiplying the Cd with the frontal area, yet you multiply it with meters (lenght), I think it should be m^2. - For the Section 2:16 onward you reference your previous test about bikepacking bags vs. panniers: It would help to better understand the implications of the results if you'd state the cargo volume of the respective setups, especially the total volume of the bikepacking bags (this one is even missing from the blog post on your site?). The weight of the setup is stated as equal but that seems not that important when testing the aerodynamics. Either way, thank you very much for the extensive information and research you provide here, it's a gold mine and I'll keep digging around:)

[@Cyclingabout]

1. Yep, should have added m^2. 2. The volume was not intended to be matched. A bikepacking setup is all about minimising volume and carrying the bare essentials. I just made sure to match the weights to make sure the test was as even as possible.

[@elachichai]

Please summarize a recommendation for combination of bags to choose for different total volumes. 30L, 60L, 90L

[@rbell354]

Up

[@jonweeee]

What’s the brand of the bike bag on the thumbnail of the video?

[@smythie27]

Thanks for this. Not sure that it will help much though. I ride with panniers all the time on my e-bike, so I am always wondering the best way to get the most distance with the power I have. In-frame baggage or trunk bags may be an option

[@johndowney9319]

How similar was bag volume between panniers and bikepacking setup?

[@maximeroy636]

If I use aero bars with back bagages is it good?

[@ronmcmillan5956]

How does this all work out if you have a good stiff tailwind I have found you can really get moving with a stiff wind fully loaded ?

[@Cyclingabout]

A higher CdA is better for riding in a strong tailwind.

[@trystansanders8938]

Great video, loving the data. How does one correct for weight in these calculations? For example in your test on the velodrome, were your panniers empty or full? Those "aero fenders" might reduce drag, but add weight and subsequently decrease efficiency? Interested to hear your thoughts. Cheers

[@Cyclingabout]

Unless you're riding significant vertical elevation, weight plays a very minor role in your average speed. I've done some weight testing here: www.cyclingabout.com/how-much-does-bike-and-gear-weight-slow-you-down-results/

[@psycheeunevsi]

Hey, another Aussie on here from the Gold Coast, I have a question for you. I currently use a Giant toughroad SLR 2 which is a great bike and looking to for this bike packing setup with a change of tire sizes from 700x50mm to 700x38 (preferable with Schwalbe marathon E-plus tires) would it make a significant difference to help me reach better speed/distance in a shorter period time? The bike is super great on all terrains but I just feel the tires aren’t suited for me since I mainly go on the road more and will be touring from Gold Coast to Perth on the future.

[@paperboi4311]

Serious question: If I'm not racing and don't have a timeline or fixed schedule/end date, and I'm not so concerned about how many miles I traverse on a daily basis, and I value the contents of my 4 pannier and handlebar setup more than speed, and I like my fenders, and I like my Velo Orange Crazy Bars, and I like to wear whatever I feel like, please explain how much I can possible gain or what I should possibly prioritize about with the remaining items in my setup? What's left if all the major elements (bike, body size, etc.) are a given, is this really, at the end of the day, critically important?

[@Cyclingabout]

If you've gone through my list of gains and are not willing to change anything about your setup, there is not need to worry about aerodynamics. A better gain will be your tyre rolling resistance (video coming).

[@tmayberry7559]

What about flat bars and bar ends how far in should I move mine to gain an aero advantage

[@Cyclingabout]

As far in as is practical.

[@tmayberry7559]

@@Cyclingabout yes I found that out.As far as they don't interfere with brake levers or shift levers and you may have to cut your grips down a little. I have found bar end do allow you to pick up 2 mph more and gives you an aero position as well as a modified aero position ( like ride the hoods of road or cx bike) in their traditional position when you bend your arms at a 45 degree angle

[@NeoFrontierTechnologies]

Very informative and scientific. Now I can pack things smarter.

[@stefanhansen5882]

Your videos are absolutely awesome! You mentioned recumbent bikes at the end for a split second. Does anyone tour on those? It would make sense, right?

[@OneTwoThree_22]

anyone know where i can get a rear bike rack like seen at 4:33 ?

[@shaukatkhan1600]

Very good bicycle adventure tour

[@DIY-DaddyO]

As a plodding commuter using bmx bars on a mountain bike airo doesn’t bother me that much BUT when there’s a headwind you can feel the difference when you drop down. So how do I fit aero bars to a bmx handle bar???

[@detmer87]

Without penalty: Frame bag (Almost) no penalty: Large saddle bag Medium to high penalty (depending on size): Front or back Panniers High penalty: Steering-wheel pannier

[@teslafudge1585]

Saddle bag was a benefit in one test! 👌

[@saintott]

Excellent!!

[@ramenadventure]

This is why I subscribed. Great report.

[@Cyclingabout]

Happy to have you along for the ride!

[@ifell3]

I used to do bike packing with a rucksack, I wonder how this would add up, as most of it is behind your frontal area.

[@toykyle]

What is the rear fender in the thumbnail? That setup looks great!

[@Cyclingabout]

Asssavers.

[@XavierBetoN]

Interesting research over 135° fenders. Thanks for the informational video, cheers!

[@XavierBetoN]

​@D R They have very thin rims with carbon aero rims on time trials. I think FCA is working against bicycle technology last 10 years. But you're right, with that 7,5kg downlimit, you can easily add a fender and still be 7,5kg.

[@XavierBetoN]

@D R Another reason might be because you don't need aero, but lightness in races. aero is more required if you travel more than an hour with your bike. Not for the speed but for efficiency I'd get it, You travel 100km, get tired for 90km, in a way of speaking..10km free ride without effort.

[@Shorjok]

My take home from this: The biggest differences are made with 1) Hand position and 2) clothing.

[@Cyclingabout]

Two great take-homes. ⚡️

[@TheExix]

Very good nerdy content !

[@Cyclingabout]

Glad you liked it!

[@g.r.2985]

Great content and thanks for doing the tests to show the effects of the bags. Has no manufacturer thought of aero front and rear panniers? Would it make much of a difference?

[@stephenpoole6015]

Yep, they were reasonably easily available in the 80s, from Tailwind in the US and cloned by Pakit in the UK; they definitely worked. However, tourers being conservative meant they never took over the market and eventually faded away. There are still aero bags for recumbents...

[@mattmatthews5414]

Watched the video wondering why you had a touring bike with no fenders but gorgeously matched bags in the thumbnail. It confirmed a few things I thought I was imagining between my stripped modern steel & carbon roadbike + loose summer clothes and my fendered & rear bagged fixed commuter which I ride in tight/fitted clothes.

[@Cyclingabout]

I answered why I'm not aero-optimised in the sticky comment: "... my average speed is usually

[@mattmatthews5414]

@@Cyclingabout Sorry, that was a poorly worded comment which, in my head, was supposed to boil down to a sorta thumbs up, a thanks for making the vid as it isn’t what I’d come to expect from you, and that that grey bike was also a surprise to see with the CYCLINGABOUT label. Totally agreed about touring with loose clothes for social politeness. When touring with enough stuff to sustain a week or more, a 9-10kph avg is a sensible expectation. Going fast is seldom the point. That grey bike’s bags look like they’d do for a weekend and not much more. I’d like to use something like them for my annual self-“race” from Rochester, NY to Boston, MA.

[@albertbatfinder5240]

“Rear attachment improves aerodynamics.” (Spoiler alert)

[@bP-yr3po]

I get it. LOL.

[@albertbatfinder5240]

@@bP-yr3po thank u, b P. I was giving up hope.

[@bP-yr3po]

@@albertbatfinder5240 Its a real drag when nobody gets the jokes

[@bP-yr3po]

@@albertbatfinder5240 but with the help of this video perhaps we can all break wind more efficiently.

[@Alex-sr7op]

Good one :D

[@ElevationEveryWeekend]

Nice collection of data! Hand position on flat bar bikes is a huge factor for sure, and it’s free. Not easy to sustain for long periods of time, so I think aero bars of some sort would be a good addition.

[@Cyclingabout]

Aerobars are a great way to reduce both the Cd and the A!

[@fnjfrancis]

Ride 20% slower with what ever bicycle bags you want and enjoy the ride.

[@moi7748]

👍👍

[@magnusdagbro8226]

So you couldn't possibly enjoy your ride if you had aero bags?

[@seitenryu6844]

@@magnusdagbro8226 Not possible.

[@fnjfrancis]

@@magnusdagbro8226 I enjoy to be able to pack my stuff easy and simple without worrying about oddly shaped aero-bags. I have nothing against ppl, who likes to go fast, but I just happened to like the simple way. I believe, that riding a bicycle has become to expensive and complicated, if one follows the advise on youtube and other places alike...

[@veganpotterthevegan]

Sometimes you want to see as much as possible with your available time.

[@TheRusssians]

Great Video! Curious where you can purchase that KOGA Durham handlebars if you live in Oz?

[@Cyclingabout]

Vakantiefietser or CycleSense

[@trelosenario]

I love Nerdy Videos . Thank you and Happy new cycling year