The FASTEST Cat 4/5 Amateurs I've ever seen

[@rjbman93]

Oh shit it's me! Thanks Jeff & Will! Last lap I was def planning on the kid in yellow bridging up - he is like, 14-15, insanely strong, cleans up a lot at the weekly crit series. Took me way too long to realize he was truly popped (rewatching, it's obvious even after the first corner). edit: Also, didn't really notice any out of town racers, this is just how good CO is lol. Def had people going all out as this was the last big crit of the year, though. Primal in particular seemed to burn a few guys at the start to try & shatter the field.

[@williamrhardin]

Nice, thanks for submitting the footage, it was super fun to got through

[@knlprez]

Nice result Ryan! I had a teammate in that race and it was fast, those BJC guys just shattered the field smashing at the front.

[@emperorofthenorthno.19trai30]

ya dope we have kids like him in new yourk too bet if u made a officail ask for test he would go away never to be seen again lololol

[@michaelr148]

Nice one, Ryan. Thanks for sharing your video. Strong performance in a strong field. It must be great to get the coaching advice from Jeff and Will!

[@TriCO1975]

I did the Pillar to Post hill climb up Lookout Mountain (4.5 miles 1250 climbing) when I first moved to Colorado. I got dropped in the first 1/4 mile. The Cat 4 winner was only 17 seconds slower than the P/1/2 winner. I finished mid-pack more than 7 minutes back. I switched over to being a triathlete, where I could just race the course to protect my crushed ego... The Colorado race scene is insanely fast.

[@mrvwbug4423]

Yes it is, in any kind of racing you can think of. I'm actually surprised Lookout via the road is only 1250 climb, it's MTB version Ape'ney is 2350 climbing and 12.5mi round trip (it's done as a loop, typically start at the bottom of Chimney gulch, ride over to Apex, climb Apex, ride to the top of lookout, drop into the top of Chimney Gulch and take that all the way down).

[@TriCO1975]

The road race is the pillars to post. It's much shorter than the Mtb climb. @@mrvwbug4423

[@Hoffbottraces]

FYI. The winner of this race finished top ten OA in the Unbound 100. Racing against people like that is typical in Colorado, even in lower Categories. A lot of fast gravel, mtb, triathletes, or just non racers (but are super fit) who haven’t done a ton of USAC races.

[@mrvwbug4423]

You're seeing a lot of that in juniors right now too, as BJC and some of the Denver area juniors teams are adding crit racing to their schedule, and most of those kids are already experienced and super fit XC racers from racing NICA.

[@chrisfoglesong2017]

I always appreciate the constructive criticism when you review Cat 4/5 races.

[@williamrhardin]

We're really trying to help speed up those lessons, Cat 4/5 races usually have a lot of them and I know I learned a lot the hard way during those early years of racing!

[@Hoffbottraces]

For anyone watching, keep in mind Littleton sits at 5300’ asl, so power / Hr not comparable to most at sea level. CO is some of the fastest / deepest fields you’re going to find. No one in this race is a sandbagger, 4/5 races averaging 27-28mph is typical in CO.

[@emperorofthenorthno.19trai30]

you never raced new york city stop talking crap even training races in centrel and prospect park have 150 to 200 set off by 10 min all fields full every time from all over the east coast we here know there is no dope controls like we go thru here from cat 5 up not test lose your liscense no questions 10 min to pee in a cup and at training races too gtfoh

[@cycleoflife565]

That’s insane for an entry level race. Some grand tour stages don’t average that much.

[@Hoffbottraces]

@@cycleoflife565not for a crit. A fast CAT 3 field is 28-29mph. A Pro, Cat1-2 crit is 29-31mph average. You can’t compare a 5hr long, mountainous multi day stage race with a 1hr crit.

[@mrvwbug4423]

Yeah and it carries over to the MTB side as well. I raced Salida Enduro last year and the field was absolutely stacked with pros and top level amateurs. I was happy to just finish as I had tweaked my shoulder in a bad crash on a training ride for that race the week before. Did a "local" XC race up in Wyoming and the open class had multiple XC pros from CO, I raced the equivalent of cat 4 and we had sandbaggers who intentionally "missed" their start time for the cat 3 equivalent, so I got absolutely wrecked on the climbs, managed to reel a couple back in on the techy sections because I knew that trail system like the back of my hand.

[@mrvwbug4423]

@@Hoffbottraces Then there was the NCL race in Denver where the mens field was averaging 35mph, but that was basically a who's who of American crit racers. Even got to meet Jeff there.

[@mrvwbug4423]

So something to note for crit racers in the Denver area. Every wednesday night during the summer they hold training crits at the CSP training course up on South Table Mountain. So a lot of these cat4/5 guys that are local have probably been getting experience in those training crits. The Boulder Jr Cycling kids are crazy fast, they're new to crit racing though. I've been in some XC races with BJC kids in the field and they were crazy fast up all the hills.

[@Tomcoma2832]

Do you know if that training crit is open to invite? I raced this race back in 2023 and would love to do some practice races

[@MorganBrown]

"the fitness seems really high" yea, welcome to colorado! the race is at 5500 ft above sea level to boot. Huge combined "open 4" field, which partially explains the speed

[@roadracer1584]

I learned never to underestimate cat 4/5 races. There are lots of strong guys from other endurance sports like swimming, rowing, and cross country running who are trying out bike racing for the first time. They are as physiologically strong (VO2max and LT) as anyone in a higher category fields. As you pointed out, cat 4/5 racers often lack experience, tactics, and bike handling.

[@mikenight171]

lol, colorado is an insane place to compete. when i was a 4 in colorado i had an FTP of 4.6+ w/kg and still had to work for it

[@charliedillon1400]

Boulder cat 4/5 guy - Sworks, power meter, coaching plan, Zwift, 20 hr/week training, diet plan. Not all, but definitely some. More power to them, but this will always keep road racing from growing as a sport. Too expensive and exclusive.

[@mikenight171]

maybe, i'm a cat1 now and i know some beginners with janky bikes that can still beat me. Usually because they're beginner cyclists but ex-pro rowers or runners or triathletes that decided to do mass start events@@charliedillon1400

[@Bozza36]

They definitely look fit, but w/kg isn't a crucial statistic in flat/crit races, but rather raw power output. Someone with an FTP of 360w for example will go faster than someone with a 300w FTP, even if their w/kg is much lower (provided the race is predominantly flat).

[@tristanm8250]

Yeah but also nah? If there's an accordion effect going with lots of surges big guys will get murdered having to accelerate themselves up to speed over and over again and again. @@Bozza36

[@cornishalps9870]

I'm a cat 1 in the UK on a similar ftp, I think a sprint is more important in a crit for results. You just have to be careful where you spend your energy.

[@BrentonaBike]

Super cool to see a buddy make the channel! National level cat 4/5 can be fast!

[@jls1337]

The speed and level of fitness in Colorado is insane… living and training at altitude maybe has something to do with it.

[@xsexystudmuffinx]

Sure the CO guys are living and training at altitude, but that only gives an advantage if they go down to sea level to compete. If they're just competing against each other also at attitude, then it nullifies out. But I do believe that the high altitude environment will tend to attract the fit people to move and live there.

[@mikenight171]

@@xsexystudmuffinx I think it's a mix of the general competitive cycling culture here. Like there's a gnarly throwdown groupride every day of the week. Also it's just a "fit" place in general, so you get guys who run 4 minute miles in college and then get a bike

[@rjbman93]

@@xsexystudmuffinx Yeah when I went down to sea level for Intelli I typically am able to normalize 40-50W higher than usual, assuming I get a few days to acclimate first.

[@Timtimzi]

@@xsexystudmuffinx now i want to go ride bikes in Colorado....

[@bailmacd]

The thinner air might also have to do with it as well. The reduction in drag could be significant at these speeds.

[@knlprez]

Nice recap Jeff and Will! Littleton is a great race! One correction, this was not a Cat 4/5 race. The Cat 4s and 5s have separate races at this event; this was exclusively the Cat 4 field. It's a super fun course and huge crowds. But yeah, the racing scene in CO is strong!

[@quantumadmin]

As a Masters racer I come across former CAT 1/2 but since they only race a few times a year and once or twice during COVID, they're now Cat 4s. Brutal.

[@terrellpickett7904]

You can downgrade??

[@quantumadmin]

@@terrellpickett7904 apparently if you don't accrue many points yes. Blew my mind when we all got our doors blown off and turns out the guy was a former cat 1 who just raced twice a year now and was in the 35 B race.

[@dustind9242]

Wow, I guess I need to downgrade

[@cycleoflife565]

I rode in an event that was the state championships for the state of Michigan. It was my return to racing after many years away from the sport so myself and a few club members entered the Cat 5 race. None of them had raced before other than a training race. I warned them that the races start out fast and eventually settle down after eliminating the slower less experienced riders. The beginning for me felt like an all out sprint at 28-30 mph. They were dropped immediately and I was hanging on for dear life up to the point where I accelerated to bridge a gap to get back in the draft of the pack in an opening that was quickly closed right into my front wheel causing me to crash. Race over! I was cooked anyway. Someone slammed into my rear quick release and my wheel was out of the dropouts.

[@gjmtbr1]

This is SM 4 open race, any age. Purple Natural Grocers rider# 736 , finished 7th, average watts 211 for 30 minutes, max 860 watts

[@iloveithere1225]

more cat 4/5 content 🙏

[@speciesofspaces]

I would say over the many years I spent riding and racing in SoCal this has been the pattern for much of that time. Fitness outstripping bike handling and skill in the peloton. Even on the smaller group rides where guys had moved up categories very quickly based on strength but still rode like less experienced riders etc. I found that frustrating at times when out of competition and training with the smaller or modest sized rides.

[@sigfreed11]

Love the race breakdown series

[@jgourdo]

As a more recent 4/5, I would argue that the last 2k plan of your is less likely... in my experience lots of 4/5s will chase even when they're solo or if it doesn't make sense, hence why they're 4/5s!

[@dwaynerandolph3565]

CAT 4 races have always been as fast as the 3's & 2's. The adrenaline to race as fast as possible have kept the Crit CAT 3'S Plus 4's at warp speeds. I'm a ex CAT 3 racer, I remember ...

[@jimmynickelz]

The best are the Masters Races. The strong older former (and current) cat1's aren't exactly sandbagging, but they will definitely make you better.

[@jimmynickelz]

Also, if you do something dumb or risky in a masters race, nobody will want to work with you. Everybody has mortgages.

[@charliedillon1400]

I learned group riding from some old former pros in Boulder years ago. Guys in their 50s; still very strong , but with nothing to prove, the wisdom and patience of age, and superior bike handling and group positioning skills.

[@andrewlabat9963]

Sandbagging happens everywhere. Many want to win, even if it means competing against competition. they know they're a level above..

[@williamrhardin]

There is a lot of things you can learn from keeping yourself back in those lower categories! learning how to win is super important for progression, sandbagging isn't always just for ego-boosting, a tricky subject!

[@andrewlabat9963]

​@williamrhardin Yea, I'm aware that conditioning doesn't equal bike skill or racing tactics, but I've watched a few who were clearly not lacking, so riding against better would make them better..

[@NanoDex]

Interesting how the FOV really changes the sense of speed. 28 looks like 20 on that cam

[@AntonioDiaz]

Nice race!

[@davidnorbertwild]

LOVE your stuff. Big question for you and anyone: What app do you use to overlay fit/gpx data over your footage?! Still using that old one I saw you made a video about 5 years ago? Or Garmin Virb edit? The map overlay is buggy. So what do you use? Thank you!!! Inspiring stuff man.

[@christiankeim]

When it's open rider I like to talk another rider into exchanging lines with me til the finish and we can duke it out for finish.

[@dacman69]

always identify the ringer. some people drop down in category to get a win.

[@charliedillon1400]

Couple of these guys (fluoro jersey/socks at 8:40, for example) have the telltale sign of someone who has trained hard, and/or raced for years........toothpick upper arms; yet they are racing 4/5. Dead giveaway of a sandbagger.

[@bspnce]

He's a junior

[@Real28]

The dude in yellow on a Titanium bike? Color and sheen looks very familiar...

[@JabezMeulemans]

This is normal cat 4 fitness in Colorado

[@rotation-y2n]

In the us is there normally a race between 4/5 + p12s?

[@snxstar]

Is this footage slowed down? Something looks off

[@DiePixelkrieger]

Its the narrower field of view :) It makes things feel slower. Wider angled lenses feel way faster

[@bigmountaincycling]

The lens perspective impacts it - look at the items closest to you as the rider passes it, that better shows the speed.

[@snxstar]

Thanks!

[@locosphinx]

Racing is different in Colorado. It's FAST there. Faster than anywhere in the country (at all levels) in my opinion.

[@seagulls4life12]

The only reason I do well in crits is because I come from mountain biking. Purebred roadies typically don’t have great bike handling skills

[@Speedy.V]

So what's the difference between cat 1 and pro tour racers. Like what's the actual level of training, nutrition etc. Does that mean that cat 1 still has a day job and pro tour racers main job is riding?

[@emac626]

Length of race. You can get by as a US Cat 1 riding 1 hour crits (please take with a grain of salt). Pro Tour races are, well, longer. And hiller. And the pressure is relentless.

[@keeganburns1538]

When cat four and five racers race together, are they scored out of the same race or by category?

[@rjbman93]

Depends, there can be cat 4/5 races scored together, or separate races ran at the same time. This particular race was only cat 4s, though.

[@homyak32]

Да с таким пульсом гнать всю гонку не каждый сможет.

[@fraserherman8754]

It was like the speed didnt match the video. Seemed like they were going much slower than 45-50km/h

[@Zen.416]

Jeff your missing a very important reason why cat 4/5 don’t look like they used to….. It has to do with indoor training and thanks to guys like you educating people on the proper way to train and race! Nice job as always!!🍺👍

[@ЖанарСеитханова-ы3в]

Bad Elk 42

[@davekeefe8938]

C’Mon Jeff…only doing 300w for the last two laps in breakaways/flyers in Nor Cal 4 races definitely was not getting it done. It’s been a while since I’ve turned a pedal but I remember the power files! I think Cherry Pie cat 4/5 masters race was 600w for the last lap to stay away

[@Hoffbottraces]

To be fair, Littleton is 5300 asl.

[@davekeefe8938]

@@Hoffbottraces true, I lived in Northern Colorado for 8 years

[@swunson]

Jeff should do a push up for every like this comment gets

[@williamrhardin]

Yes!

[@adadinthelifeofacyclist]

Damn right! 😂

[@juliomarcelo5015]

Hell yeah 💪

[@savievankint]

Lezz gooooo

[@HydeMyJekyll]

2k to go and he had already given up. No push at all to move up or improve position. Is this a smaller rider? Very high HR for the power.

[@Hoffbottraces]

Littleton CO is at 5300’ asl. A lot to do with it.

[@bigmountaincycling]

Was hot, 5300ft and this is a short window into 50min of pretty much all out race from the drop. I myself had a bad race this day relative to the rest of the season.

[@docpewpew]

Cal angie yesterday 4/5 race was faster then this whith 2 pinched corners

[@SeraStaplz]

Sometimes I see someone with an obviously bad bike fit and it makes my knees hurt in sympathy. 4:09

[@rsmiii]

My heart rate is in the red just watching how poorly guys held their lines. Yikes. I don't miss 4/5 racing at all.

[@Multistan85]

First

[@Liam_ridesbikes]

"cool little course". Wide open, no features and 2 corners away from being an oval track. It's about as dull a course as you could get 😂

[@Кирилл-е8в5ы]

Athletic boy 80

[@SarbinazSharapova-p6i]

Yumshoq yo'lbars 47

[@emperorofthenorthno.19trai30]

i unsubscribed to much bull crap and excuses for something that is clear the patterns dont change just the riders ehhh its dope call them out ask they get tested the official will test them if there is a reason like you show here maybe its the good ole boy network we always see