The fastest way to play the spear is also the most OP. | Hades

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[@sajanramanathan]

General rule for Achilles is take whichever shows up first of Artemis and Zeus. But if you don’t get Zeus in Tartarus use Artemis keepsake since you really need the extra Zeus boons (like jolted) to make it work.

[@Tigrie5934]

Use Artemis keepsake to get Zeus boons? What?

[@greZerg]

Yeah I didn’t understand at first, but I think I got it: in Tartarus, take either Artemis or Zeus, whichever comes first. But if you reach Asphodel without either, take Artemis’ keepsake and skip Zeus altogether because by this time it’s too late to take Zeus, as you’d waste too much time getting the necessary Zeus boons to make it work quickly.

[@Tigrie5934]

@@greZerg Oh ok, it makes sense, thanks

[@sajanramanathan]

@@greZerg Yep this is what I meant, sorry that was super unclear! Thanks for explaining :)

[@life-destiny1196]

Hey Haelian/comments section, just wanted to share that I got my first 32 heat clear a day or two ago after picking up the game a couple weeks ago. Watching you try various things and getting a feel for the Hades metagame in that way was a huge help, both with the weapon and boon options and with the Pact. Thanks for everything! going to post some stats on the clear below the Read More button, in case anyone is curious. Overall play time: ~97 hours (per Steam; some AFK time included) Overall clears: 74 Overall runs: around 110, it's not in the screenshot I took anywhere I can see Attempts at 32 heat: first try! Previous heat record was 20. Successful clear time: 23:08 End HP: 112/300 (all DDs used) Keepsake: Athena in Tartarus, I believe Aphrodite in Asphodel, then Acorn for Elysium and Styx Weapon: Adamant Rail (Hestia) Hammers: Ricochet Fire and Rocket Bomb Notable boons: Aphro attack, Nourished Soul, Athena dash, Ares special, Curse of Longing (Not sure what I got from Hermes, I don't think Hyper Sprint or Rush Delivery came up) Pact setup: 80% Hard Labor 25% Lasting Consequences 80% money 20% Jury Summons EM3 2x Benefits Package Middle Management Underworld Customs 40% Forced Overtime 7m Tight Deadline General comments: Tight Deadline 7m is free heat. I think I 3-sacked this run, maybe 2, and still had about five minutes of leeway at the end. I generally built my pact around making combat harder rather than making my build more random, other than Customs (I only have two Fated Persuasion unlocked, so mirror would've been a little less bad than normal, but still really rough), while minimizing Jury Summons/Calisthenics so that rooms didn't take forever. I didn't have much practice with FO2 or Benefits Package 2, and the lack of Hyper Sprint made Asterius at FO2 and high Hard Labor extremely painful, but I muddled through somehow and managed to recover by the end of Styx. Nourished Soul carried really hard; I would have definitely died to attrition at some point but was able to go into Hades with 300 health and a DD instead (Patty and Athena both didn't help--I might have taken Hydralite on Patty or just missed him--and I couldn't afford them when they showed up in the Well of Charon). Rocket Bomb in Elysium was super nice for stripping shields from dead spirits, because otherwise Hestia has to double tap them if they're armored, and that's a big waste of time in what is already one of the longest areas. Curse of Longing was nice chip damage during the Hades fight, where sometimes you just gotta run away a little bit, but I wouldn't call it outright good. Build luck was decidedly mediocre, tbh. Definitely practice EM3+FO2+BP2 if you're trying to build up to a similar 32 heat setup IMO. Those are the ones that most change the way you have to execute each room, as opposed to something like Hard Labor which is just "the same but more punishing." Obviously a couple things are weapon dependent here (Damage Control is awful on Hestia but borderline free heat on many other weapons). Hestia definitely seems like one of the better weapons for a first 32 clear. It's in my personal top 3 with Zeus shield and Rama bow (Arthur is a close fourth). If you read this far, thanks! I partially did this writeup for personal satisfaction, but would love to hear how it differed from everyone else's experiences.

[@Haelian]

Congrats!!!

[@hideshiseyes2804]

There are so many boons and hammers that I think are good that Haelian is like “don’t want that it’s trash” 😮

[@Haelian]

💀

[@boneappletee3395]

It all depends on what you’re aiming for, he most likely doesn’t mean it’s objectively bad, just situationally bad

[@Critbuff]

Learning so much from your videos about builds and stuff like the Timer's interaction with Tight Deadline.

[@blakedavis229]

I had a really hard time understanding you in this video; it's like maybe there was something in your throat that needed clearing, so you sounded off - maybe give us a quick "hrrrmmm" at the beginning to make sure this doesn't happen in the future.

[@life-destiny1196]

underrated comment

[@Haelian]

TEEHEE

[@quandary23]

17:15 A casual run for me would see me still in asphodel by that IGT 😅

[@brewdaly1873]

I just got my first sub 10 minute run using Achilles and splash dash. I actually used Demeter's attack, just because it got offered early on at Epic level. But then I got Zeus' Aid, Jolted, Billowing Strength, Smoldering Air, and Cold Fusion, along with epic HS/RD. Best run I've had so far.

[@greZerg]

Got my new 9:26 PR with Achilles Spear today after just 4 runs, so thanks! And without Flurry Jab to boot. What I think is key is that you absolutely need good chamber RNG to get a decent time. You may get the perfect build, but if you get a 4-sack, or you don't get enough "free" or quick rooms like Than, survival rooms, Chaos gates, NPC chambers, or fountain, you'll get an average time. The previous run, I had exactly the right build with the right timing, lots of damage output, and I breezed through enemy rooms... but I got a 5-sack and not much room luck except for 5 (!!!) chaos gates (but 2 just before the shop), so I only got sub-14, which is not great for me. I think that's what I feel is frustrating about casually "speedrunning" Hades...

[@homonym7638]

Literally just started on this build in my quest to get Sub 10 minutes on all weapons, perfect timing, thanks Dan!

[@TheB0sss]

As for why the survival rooms dont appear with tight deadline, i imagine it might specifically be for RTA times. I dont know but it feels like that though

[@lapushka9388]

My favorite is the Zagreus spear. It’s special is long ranged and the back stab damage from it coming back is so good.

[@baeguevara354]

Genuine question - why didn't you take Serrated Point when it showed up in Elysium? Triple Jab is still solid, but Serrated Point would've increased your damage a lot more, and the downside of having your dash range reduced is pretty insignificant when you have +3 dashes from Hermes. And it works well with Flurry Jab since it only modifies the dash-strike, then your attack works just like usual. That said, I'm not out here getting speedruns this fast, so I'm sure there's something I'm missing. Great run btw.

[@Haelian]

I kinda don't know how Serrated Point works with Flurry Jab honestly LOL. I can't remember how it interacts and was concerned it would ruin what we already had. Probably should have done for the science (Serrated Point kinda mehhhh for speedyruns too generally).

[@reemie.s]

@@Haeliani've done serrated with flurry jab and its just kinda goofy. i imagine you can figure out how to make it work but i really did not enjoy it. i ended up taking the daedelus anvil in styx hoping and praying it would nerf serrated but it took flurry instead -_-

[@baeguevara354]

@@Haelian Totally understandable - even if it might be good, don't wanna mess up what you have going. I also wondered if there was a time component, since it's fast due to its damage output but Flurry Jab is faster, and the dash-strike now goes at Serrated Point pace. You should try it sometime though, they have a great interaction. Idk if it's speedrun material but it is powerful.

[@Cami-cn7do]

hey, achilles spear runner here! serrated point makes me yearn for death! i hate it! but on a serious note outside my bias, it CAN work but its not taken by any high level achilles runners. when you already have flurry jab (which you p much always mod or reset for as hammer #1), it means serrated point basically overrides what makes flurry good- good dps that rapidly uses up the buff by inflicting regular and dash attacks rapidly. youll see with flurry jab that the regular attacks come out basically immediately after the dash attacks, which is actually a really unique interaction the game doesnt tell you about! flurry jab doesnt just remove cooldown between regular strikes, it makes the cooldown after dash attacks basically noexistant compared to base spear! serrated point basically ruins the entire interaction… if you mod hades to test the interactions between the two youll see the interaction more intuitively when you test it physically! flurry dash range is also actually quite detrimental in a speedrun context, more so than you may expect… serrated point is takeable in SOME contexts (usually when flurry jab isnt available on the first hammer and you cant reset for it, so you cut losses and take serrated and force zeus attack)

[@baeguevara354]

@@Cami-cn7do thank you, this was a very thorough and comprehensive explanation. I see the anti-synergy between serrated point and flurry jab. I feel like the fact that the dash-strike hits 3 times helps offset that a little bit damage wise, but combined with the time penalty of the dash reduction, I can see why it's overall a net negative in a speedrun context.

[@noblecyberman957]

'I'm gonna be positive' *opens boon menu to Positive Outlook*

[@beenisweenisiii3825]

Maybe the survival rooms don't appear because they would end up actually saving time since you technically complete the room in zero seconds. Either that or it just doesnt fit with the idea of speedrunning the game.

[@VideoKingist]

Are the "secret words" related to anything within the game's story? Like at 1:33

[@life-destiny1196]

The run start cutscenes? I've always taken them as Zagreus reflecting on various arguments he's gotten in with his dad as he starts another escape attempt. Keeps him motivated. Not much impact on the plot, but it's fun characterization that also happens to be annoying in a speedrun context (since the cutscene is unskippable, it'll slow you down in multi-run categories).

[@redvenomweb]

If you can't get Hyper Sprint+Rush Delivery, wouldn't it be worth it to pick Auto-Reload and try for Bad News? That's the same damage bonus as a common rarity Rush Delivery.

[@Haelian]

Hmm I didn't consider it, neat idea! Not sure it's totally worth over whatever I took though (attack speed right?) especially since you kinda want to lodge a cast into bosses.

[@greZerg]

@@Haelian not sure if it's worth it (probably not), but for a while I took the Hermes keepsake in Asphodel just to get Bad News. It might be sorta OK if you get a first Hermes boon in Tartarus, don't get Hyper Sprint (maybe you got + dashes instead for example), and you already got all you need for your build. That way you don't need Auto Reload, but you "lose" a probably better keepsake for Asphodel's duration.

[@maxwithanaxe8098]

Hey thanks for this! After watching I went and tried myself and got a 7:23 IGT, Grandpa could prob do it faster

[@marisamartin2528]

Why do you want survival rooms to appear?? 1:12

[@aaronlin8785]

pauses the in-game timer

[@MarkusAndersen96]

not buying a recharge of deaths defiance is wild to me xD then again I've only done 2 clears and still struggle hard. it's a learning curve for sure and the boon rng is demoralizing atm.

[@Vide501]

Question: Why use chthonic vitality instead of dark regeneration? Maybe i'm too intermediate to understand that but i see no real reason to use it over what is basically a slightly nerfed bonus healing fountain, one which does especially well if you're playing on a heat that you've already collected bounties on.

[@FroyoMNS]

The fountain right after the bosses heals enough that most of your healing from boss drops is wasted with Dark Regeneration, and the other way to get significant healing is with Darkness troves, which are incredibly inconsistent. Cthonic Vitality gives you more consistent healing across the entire biome.

[@redvenomweb]

Dark regeneration gives you low frequency chunk healing which can frequently result in wasted overheals at full health, especially since the biggest darkness pickups are right before healing fountains. Chthonic Vitality is rarely going to overheal, which means over the course of a 60-70 chamber run, you're getting ~200 HP of useful health.

[@Haelian]

Others have already stated but it's a lot of small things. You really never want to take Darkness from wells/chambers in a speedrun so you hopefully only get it after beating a boss, which you'll see a fountain for right after. It's not a huge difference to be honest though.

[@Vide501]

@@Haelian ahh, that makes sense. I usually max out on centaur hearts which is probably why dark regeneration is better for me (unless i get a lot of dionysis boons and make fountains op that is)

[@RInger2875]

Why does it say 69 total clears when the individual numbers only add up to 19?

[@Haelian]

I have to reset my savefile regularly for speedrunning purposes. I use a shared save from speedrun dot com.

[@Cami-cn7do]

ive speedrun with achilles a lot and something not often mentioned is that achilles actually relies a lot on either stacking zeus or getting a good cast (hunting blades is optimal imo). otherwise, your damage actually falls off really quickly against bosses relative to something like beowolf or hera or eris lategame! a lot of achilles’ speed comes from mobility (underrated amongst those new to the aspect) and the early burst, but unless you get good hermes stuff the attack falls off later on…

[@greZerg]

If stacking Zeus is so key, would Fated Authority work better than Fated Persuasion?

[@SlapDash69]

You said up on the D pad to make megs attack go off west to east. I'm still confused on how you aim it? I play with mouse and keyboard and I've never figured out how you aim it.

[@Haelian]

Meg always falls perpendicular to where Zag is facing. So if Zag is facing north, she will come down from west to east.

[@SlapDash69]

@@Haelian oooh thank you!

[@williamlowery1337]

Do you use the default controls? And if not where are your attack and dash set?

[@Haelian]

I have Cast rebound to Left Trigger and Reload to LB, everything else is default.

[@lukelu7151]

Why do you pick fiery presence over shadow presence?

[@Haelian]

Often better for speedruns.

[@reemie.s]

?????? i get survival rooms with tight deadline on? i play on the switch but i'm 100% certain i have gotten survival rooms with tight deadline on, bc i basically permanently have tight deadline on and i still get survival rooms. i know i do bc i hate them lmao. (not bc they're difficult tbc, i'm just an antsy player and i like going my own pace)

[@Haelian]

Shouldn't be possible, all console versions should be up to date too. Game hasn't been updated since about February of 2021.

[@ateichel25]

How'd you get that sub 7-minute clear!?

[@koloblican11763]

6 years later and "casual" is sub ten. I'm deceased. I never got below 11 and I felt real proud about my runs LUL (still do)

[@AshtonStow]

Right?

[@jimmyeng663]

2min 24secs on the first biome is slow?! my fastest time on that is 3min 15secs wahhhhhh lol

[@marisamartin2528]

Bro won 0 runs with spear 0:00 ☠️💀

[@marisamartin2528]

And 0 with sword XD 25:27

[@sydneyday706]

@@marisamartin2528 He frequently resets the save file/has some sort of mod installed icr which as he does so many of these runs - he has a bunch of other videos where he's won with the spear/sword (his sword one helped me get a 15 minute sword run) it's just not in this save

[@life-destiny1196]

to further elaborate, Hades has a bug (more specifically an instance of failed optimization I guess) where, as the number of runs on a save file increases, load times increase. I don't know the details, but for some reason the game is, like, checking your entire run history every single room (maybe because dialogue?). people with lots of playtime like Haelian start new files regularly and/or use mods to clean up the escape records.

[@sydneyday706]

@@life-destiny1196 Ahh that's good to know! I've not been playing long enough to get to that level of lag and hadn't seen that in a video yet so thanks for the info.

[@Haelian]

I got 700+ videos on Hades, so you miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight be able to find a video of me winning with these weapons LOL

[@niceone604]

I don’t get how people still play hades without any end game content.

[@barzombi7043]

But there is, though?