The First Ocean Super Predator Was An Ichthyosaur - Thalattoarchon

During the Triassic Period some absolutely giant predators roamed our planet's waters. One of these was the enormous predatory ichthyosaur Thalattoarchon saurophagis, along with Cymbospondylus youngorum - the first of the true ocean giants.
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Sources:
www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073...
www.pnas.org/action/downloadS...
www.science.org/doi/10.1126/s...
www.science.org/action/downlo...
academic.oup.com/zoolinnean/a...
www.cell.com/current-biology/...
www.jstor.org/stable/4523132?...
www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...

[@v_zach]

I can remember a time when information about prehistoric animals was either for children or professional paleontologists. I appreciate this channel.

[@jeffery9543]

100%. Always a great feeling when you can enjoy learning about a science without feeling like you're being talked down to lol. Love these vids :D

[@tuxuhds6955]

Well, us children grew up.

[@jonathanhuertas1977]

Now Dinosaurs and prehistoric animals are for all ages.

[@TheAnimalKingdom-tq3sz]

"First Ocean Super Predator" Anomalocaris: Hey, That's my line!

[@Dino24563]

Ichthyosaurs dont get enough love

[@Poliostasis]

I love how similar to Mosasaurus Thalattoarchon appeared to be, having a fairly similar skull shape and big head compared to its body, it's fascinating that it evolved long before the ancestors of mosasaurs ever touched the seas.

[@Stevieboy130664]

I have always thought the same - though some of this could be down to (paleo)artistic license. Definitely convergent evolution. I wonder how mosasaurs would have evolved if they had survived the K-T extinction.

[@adamwu4565]

Convergence with dolphinoid shapes isn't the only notable convergence among air breathing vertebrates that returned to life in the ocean that Ichthyosaurs were involved in. Consider the similarities between these Triassic Ichthyosaurs and both Cretaceous Mosasaurs and the Eocene Basilosaurid whales. In fact it also could be argued that the classic Mosasaur shape might be a fairly typical intermediate form between a semi-aquatic tetrapod and a fully aquatic dolphin/whale/fish type body shape, and perhaps if the Mosasaurs had not been wiped out in the KT event, they too would have eventually evolved members with dolphinoid shapes.

[@birbdad1842]

Its a successful shape. Not anything unusual.

[@Dizzbanger91]

Came here to comment same thing. Many of these Triassic icthyosaurs seem very mosasauresque. I wonder if mosasaurs would've developed dorsal fins and a second tail fluke eventually too

[@adamwu4565]

With respect to the second tail fluke I think it is now thought that at least some mosasaurs did have that, and I seem to recall at least one paper arguing that some late Cretaceous mosasaurs may have had dorsal fins too.

[@markalton2809]

The proto ichthyosaurs are fascinating, there's never been enough written or presented about the early evolution of this fascinating lineage. In the books they're just there, like out of nowhere.

[@billyherrington5112]

New discoveries give a Little light to that. There is possibility they could be in ocean as early as late permian

[@a787fxr]

Imagine a young person that learns from your channel . I'm old and learn from your channel. Never stop

[@AifDaimon]

The poster child of the Ichthyosaur group has always been my favourite one

[@andrewscoppetta4944]

The topic of Mesozoic marine reptiles (that are NOT mosasaurs) is incredibly underrated. Thank you for this video. I personally find the similarities between them and modern marine mammals extremely interesting, especially because there is no downscaling in size like other comparisons from ancient to modern animals!

[@Jussi138]

Ichtyosaurs came first, that's why you should say Dolphns look like Ichtyosaurs.

[@The_Story_Of_Us]

It's incredible how quickly Ichthyosaurs grew in size. Nothing had ever come close to their sizes before, they were probably the first animals in Earth's history to reach in excess of 10 tons. And 20 tons? 30? 40? 100+ tons if the Aust Colossus is any true indication?! Keep dreaming! I guess after the Great Dying, the ocean was free real estate for these badasses...

[@Mei23448]

Parahelicoprion might have reached 15-20 tons

[@The_Story_Of_Us]

@@Mei23448 interesting, could you link me something to that effect? Wikipedia doesn't have much on this animal

[@billyherrington5112]

Biggest ordovician nautilius could be around 10t

[@The_Story_Of_Us]

@@billyherrington5112 No way. Endoceras was about 6 meters long and straight-shelled (relatively thin shells in fact, like maybe half a meter in diameter at the base and tapering off towards the end). Even the biggest unconfirmed report says 9 meters from a destroyed specimen, 10 tons of weight would literally make it impossible for the animal to stay buoyant and the thing would be the densest freaking animal in the history of the world, from a class of animals that literally use their shells for buoyancy.

[@billyherrington5112]

@@The_Story_Of_Us Seems legit. I propably mistaken 10tons with 10 meters

[@Valerio_the_wandering_sprite]

I'm still waiting for the day when we will finally discover the land ancestor of ichthyosaurs. Whatever it is, it must have shared its habitat with Late Permian fauna. Crazy to think that its descendants came to be million of years before mammals, dinosaurs and even turtles.

[@AntoniusTyas]

If you ever consider making a weekly series on ichthyosaurs I would love to watch all of them, since ichthyosaurs are both weird and fascinating.

[@lucasmaugle]

Prehistoric animals are very interesting and awesome to research about that is why I love Ben G Thomas because he explains everything in great detail.Keep up the good work Ben G Thomas you are a very smart guy

[@GojiGuru]

I was surprised and happy to see this video, because I spent several years helping to worked on the one and only Thalattoarchon specimen held at the Chicago Field Museum. We split the work load up between about a dozen workers, including a team in Germany. I was assigned to work on its very large and long vertebral column. It was a real treat to have helped prep this beautiful creature in the labs. 🙏🏻🥰 Ben, if you guys want some photos of the fossil in the prep lab and in storage for a future video, I can send some over. 😎

[@WaterShowsProd]

I always liked ichthyosaurs, though when I was a kid there was extremely little mention of them. It's been great to see more about them. I never knew that they were the world's first giant predators. That's quite fascinating. Though, I suppose giantism is relative. They were the first predators that would still be considered giants today.

[@Fede_99]

Thalatthoarchon is so underrated as a giant predatory ichthyosaur. I would love to see more Ichthyosaur content by you, from the the mess that is the Temnodontosaurus, bizarre guys like Eurhinosaurus, Leptonectes or Suevoleviathan just to name a few. I would especially love to see a video about how Ichthyosaurs were still kicking as predators in the Cretaceous despite the presence of giant Pliosaurs.

[@Redneckkratos]

As a born and bred Nevadan this makes me so happy to see my state produce another giant Icthyosaur alongside our Shonisaurus

[@__cypher__]

WTF are you talking about? Your state didn't produce ANY fossils. No state PRODUCES fossils. They weren't MADE by anyone. The fossils were already in the ground loooooong before the human who put a name to the place.

[@user-bu5db9sz9j]

I worked on Dr. Martin Sander’s team excavating a specimen of what we’re pretty sure is a Thalattoarchon this summer based on the vertebral width and the giant laterally compressed teeth. We’ll have to wait and see what the entire specimen looks like pending the prep work currently underway at LACM, but I saw a lot more of the skull present in this “Ramona” specimen. Also, our current thinking is that there’s no reason to believe Thalattoarchon had a disproportionally large head, and it’s proportions are probably similar to cymbospondylids. This would mean that the holotype specimen, “Jim 2”, is comparable in size to the 50 ft Cymbospondylus youngorum

[@BugsandBiology]

Ichthyosaurs have got to be some of the most underrated prehistoric animals, especially as far as marine life goes.

[@simonjames3417]

Great job Ben!

[@Titus-as-the-Roman]

Instant fan of all Big Heads, Erythrosuchus is my mount in Battle & Thalattoarchon shall be my Water Steed.

[@mathewritchie]

You got it backwards,ichthyosaurs aren`t dolphin mimics dolphins are ichthyosaur mimics.

[@davewilson9738]

It is remarkable that we are still discovering new species and we will continue to do so; thanks for sharing with us Ben :)

[@BarbarosaAlexander]

I am likewise fascinated by convergent evolution, particularly animals that returned to the ocean. Nice job!

[@Sarafimm2]

I can only assume that it was climate that was the difference in the rapidity of ichthyosaur change and size as it was for land dinosaurs. The weather and ocean favoring making ichthyosaurs the greater predators.

[@aleksanderzagrodzski2450]

All fingers and toes crossed for your Master's! I always feel so… happy? when I hear from you and others on the channel about your academic achievements. When I first started thinking about going to university years ago, I considered going for palaeontology myself, but alas! ended up studying other stuff. But the more I hear of you guys's academic journey, the more I think… maybe one day, after all… why not? ;) Take care!

[@visi7013]

Awesome presentation. Cheers

[@uriahheep8470]

Great video today

[@yahwea]

Love to have some analysis of the gut contents of thevarious Ichthyosaurus . Thanks Ben. Los Angeles

[@gwentchamp8720]

Learnt something new today!

[@kennyhagan5781]

That creature looks like something that I once saw in a night,for real.

[@Luftwaffel1944]

The terror of the seas ...

[@BuckROCKGROIN]

I'm amazed Jurassic World hasn't released an Ichthyosaur toy yet.

[@ummeli2]

I appreciate you asking for suggestions for future segments on ichthyosaurs, but to be completely honest, I am so ignorant on all subjects paleotological, I can't think of any. All I can is that I've thoroughly enjoyed everything you've done on ichthyosaurs, so please do more.

[@mikesnyder1788]

Absolutely loved this video and I cannot thank you enough for adding to my knowledge of these ancient and wonderful creatures!!! And... another possible example of convergent evolution with the "Thalattosuchus (which) is an extinct genus of marine crocodyliform that lived in the oceans during the Middle to Late Jurassic." (Wikipedia)

[@paillette42]

I would love to see a video about the particularities of icthyosaur eyes. 🙂

[@christianklein3230]

Hey Ben, Just a quick text here to say that I love your channel! When I was younger, your outlook on life really was mine as well (later I pivoted into Physics instead, which I like even more). I love the passion with which you talk about these animals! Now, as a man who's got figured out that it's never too late to learn about things, I'd love to know where to start reading about prehistoric animals on a University level. Whenever I search for books, as you can imagine, it's mostly for children. Nothing wrong with that, but I'd like to really dive deep. Any advice?

[@UserNamesAreObsolete]

Just hearing these stats reminds me of an Orca. EDIT: Comment written at 2:20 - funny reveal afterwards.

[@tonyhaslam186]

I’m a huge ammonite fan, and mostly delve into invertebrate paleontology, but I am very fond of marine vertebrates. 🤪

[@ModelsExInferis]

I've been a fan of ichthyosaurs since I was a kid. When my dad left the army he chose to move us to Milton Keynes. Yes yes, jokes about round-a-bouts and concrete cows! But did you know MK also has concrete dinosaurs? The best bit though? An almost complete ichthyosaur skeleton used to hang in the reference section of MK library! I used to find excuses to get into the reference section just so I could stare at that fossil. I don't know if it's still there, I've since moved away and haven't been in that library for over two decades, but if you're ever in the area it's worth asking if you can have a look. It's an amazing specimen and I'll always be glad I got to see it so often! And if they won't let you in, or it's not there anymore, well, have a hunt around for the dino's; there's one at Kiln Farm and one in Eaglestone, just by the chippy. You'll have to find the rest yourself! 😉

[@benmcreynolds8581]

It's kinda crazy to realize just how few marine reptiles we have today... All other time periods had a much more diverse array of marine reptiles.

[@vinny184]

Ichtyosaurs would’ve almost definitely reached their reproductive age much faster than cetaceans, which increases the amount of possible generations a species can have in a specific timeframe. That might’ve played a big part in how they reached large sizes in a shorter amount of time and we see similar things with other marine reptiles like the mosasaurs too.

[@andythegoatman694]

Whats there not to like icthyosaurs would have been fascinating in life

[@persianking44]

I would like to see more stuff about the proto-icthyosaurs, especially since I don't think the fascinating implications of early icythosaurs evolving species as large as many modern cetaceans so soon after the Great Dying can be overstated.

[@mostlymonkey1979]

0:42 How can you mimic something that won't evolve for millions of years? If anything, dolphins are spotlight-hogging, ichthyosaur-mimicking pufferfish abusers... Love the channel.

[@sassa82]

Wow

[@nicolassenmartin1018]

Leptonectids do need a spotlight so their ecology gets better understood by the general public. They usually are suggested as swordfish or sawfish analogous animals, but their rostrum is extremely different and likely was not suited to such ecology. It is however closer to Eurhinodelphinids, which are currently suspected to be benthic predators, shifting their elongated upper jaw through sediments where they find their preys. Same also goes for one Odontocete taxa : Semirostrum.

[@TheMagnaknight]

Well, with hindsight now - the next video should be on the Ichtyotitan and the Cymbospondylus from Svalbard lol

[@GTSE2005]

Triassic Icthyosaurs were probably the most impressive marine reptiles ever, I don't think any lineage of aquatic animals with terrestrial ancestors reached huge sizes as quickly as them.

[@SB-qm5wg]

Strange tails. Hard to think of Nevada as deep ocean

[@Eckister]

you mentioned the convergent evolution of the Ichthyosaurs with the modern-day dolphins - would you care to compare their overall morphologies one day? jaw structure, teeth, overall body plan differences. I would be very much interested in that.

[@zekelerossignol7590]

You could do a video explaining why the niche as filled by other reptiles after the giant ichthyosaurs went extinct, instead of being filled by other ichthyosaurs.

[@b.a.erlebacher1139]

Is there any information about how they organized their throats so they could eat without getting water in their lungs? Also, as soon as you mentioned big heads, I wondered if any of them might have used a form of sonar.

[@TasimanaOG]

please do some content on the swiss tyrant and himalayasaurus !

[@trilobite3120]

Is this the beginning of a series on Ichthyosaurs? I hope so.

[@brettwood1351]

It does feel like Icthyasaurs have been having a lot of great finds. We're getting bigger ones, and ever more diversity. It feels like they reallyd did get into every niche they could. And if the Swiss Tyrant is as big a macropredator as some the articles say, we've got one that should definitly make it's way into the public eye.

[@albatross4920]

7:54 I'm just sitting here patiently waiting and hoping for paleontologists to finally find a permian era icthyosaur

[@skywise001]

Yungorum vs Giant Squid fight! Make a great B movie.

[@shaydenward4492]

Many dolphin species look ichthyosaur-like.

[@chir0pter]

6:45 Basilosaurids appeared soon after the evolution of marine whales and are similar in size to these ichthyosaurs. However it’s true that animals with indeterminate growth and lower metabolisms can achieve larger sizes evolutionarily more quickly than the opposite

[@matchrocket1702]

I'm intensely curious about the land animal ichthyosaurs might have evolved from. I've never seen any information on that. I surmise that there is no information available. Would you be able to comment on that?

[@morgangrosdidier1654]

From what I understand the group of reptiles they would have evolved from has not yet been identified. I'm not even finding many papers attempting to speculate what group could have been ancestral to ichthyosaurs

[@AntoniusTyas]

So far, from the modern cladistics, the closest we got to the ancestral ichthyosauromorphs would be something like hupehsuchians such as _Hupehsuchus_ , however the definitive land-based ancestor of ichthyosauromorphs with so-called plesiopedal limb conditions has yet to be discovered.

[@widodoakrom3938]

Icthiosaurus belongs to sauropsid

[@faolitaruna]

Hello Ben! Which ichthyosaur is your favourite?

[@Cowpitulate]

Gl with your masters

[@jasonbecker4049]

We're there "fish tank" size ichthyosaurs?

[@micktepolt6276]

👍👍

[@archangel996]

So, we always hear that "sharks are older than dinosaurs. Do we have any evidence of sharks and icthyosaur interacting? Bite marks on bone or anything like that?

[@shawndickmann8215]

Isnt it the other way around, dolphins being a a ithiasaur??

[@birbdad1842]

Theyre putting mosasaurs to shame.

[@cyankirkpatrick5194]

This great but Alabama and Kentucky has some awesome news also two big sharks has been discovered in the walls of Mammoth caves ,

[@AndrewTBP]

Wait for 7DOS please.

[@cyankirkpatrick5194]

@@AndrewTBP I doubt they even recognize the fact the discovery of such finding of prehistoric creatures.

[@mikesnyder1788]

Thanks for the tip! I have been to Mammoth Cave and this news is so much fun! I just read that one of the scientists had to crawl on his hands and knees for a quarter of a mile to conduct the necessary studies.

[@cyankirkpatrick5194]

@@mikesnyder1788 your the only one who's interested so I'm not going to say anything else because I've been slammed about it and because it wasn't found in another place it seems that we're the only place that can't have these findings only Africa or elsewhere other than the south. Oh by the way the found a simidon remains in a cave in Florida a few years ago but it wasn't in the 7dos guess why yes that's right not exciting enough. Because of Florida. Up until a few million years ago up towards Tennessee it was covered in water . And there's a underwater forest just 60 miles off of Gulf shores Alabama it has alder and other trees yes it slipped during a landslide a scientist said in the future he wondered just how many condos and apts are going to be in the same area one day.

[@mikesnyder1788]

@@cyankirkpatrick5194 Yes, I am interested in reading about such amazing things as smilodon remains in a cave in Florida and quite honestly I didn't know Florida even has caves. And an offshore underwater forest off of the Gulf Shores... simply amazing. A bit off topic but please check out the "Kelley's Island Glacial Grooves" in northern Ohio. I have seen these grooves and yes they are totally amazing. Regards...

[@dracodracarys2339]

the ur-mosasaurus

[@MrWanapon]

Are you going to make a video about the evolution about Ichthyosaurus too?

[@bbbenj]

😊

[@williamblansett5786]

Years ago books were published including pictures of entire families of dinosaurr such Tyrannosauridae or Ceratopsidae. Why dont you print a book with pictures about the order of Ichthyosauria?

[@indyreno2933]

Thalattoarchontidae was a pretty ancient family of ichthyosaurs.

[@RXTRUX1]

Why do sharks, and fish in general, keep getting overrun by air breathers?

[@toyohimeyeswatatsuki6917]

I don't think Sharks are overrunning at all, They still persist even when there's bigger predators I feel like it's because of Bones structures are what help them

[@williammrussell974]

did Thalattoarchon come up to breathe like a dolphin?

[@eybaza6018]

All Ichthyosaurs did

[@williammrussell974]

Thanks!@@eybaza6018

[@toyohimeyeswatatsuki6917]

Any Aquatic Creatures that aren't fish does

[@williammrussell974]

Of course, I'm a dork.@@toyohimeyeswatatsuki6917

[@Mei23448]

@@toyohimeyeswatatsuki6917 Octopus/cephalopods ánd Athropods: guess we are fish

[@mikezizis3725]

were any species icthyosaurs social animals - or all loners?

[@pedrogabrielduarte4544]

Mesozoic marine animal colors

[@creatureking-theoriginal1068]

One cool group...clade.....meh it's cool😅

[@56Seeker]

Is there any clue as to what cause the "great dyeing"?

[@AndrewTBP]

The Siberian Traps flood basalts are one hypothesis. See Wikipedia for the several other hypotheses.

[@Mei23448]

A meteorite a gamma blitz and / or volcanic eruptions

[@tolbaszy8067]

What causes evolution? The current hypothesis of environmental drivers for species development lacks a basic tenet for successful outcomes- enough individuals that change simultaneously to extend a new trait. A more plausible driver of species change, than serendipitous climate variation, would be based on cosmic radiation changing bacteria and viruses that in turn infect the more complex organisms. Cosmic radiation may have also directly mutated the DNA of animals. In any event, these changes would affect a greater population than just random individuals in localized areas adapting to climate. The Great Dying may have been caused by an astronomical event that removed atmospheric shielding, or magnetic fields, that usually envelop Earth with a protective blanket. Smaller extinctions and mutations could be the result of volcanic eruptions or meteor impacts that inject viruses or bacteria above that protection, where they mutate and return to the surface as dangerous pathogens or beneficial catalysts.

[@kenbattor6350]

These ocean going animals must have drowned in the great flood, about 4k years ago.😆😆

[@thebigchimpanski4783]

I have to wonder if Cymbospodylus were warm blooded, and perhaps went deep for Giant Squid like Sperm whales 🤔🤔🤔 it seems unlikely but maybe 🤷‍♂️

[@CiderVG]

The Anamalocaris gang will NOT stand for this erasure

[@bkjeong4302]

The real terror of the Triassic seas came later, in the form of Himalayasaurus. Imagine Thalattoarchon but blown up to 50ft in length and over 30 tons in weight. Shonisaurus also turned out to be raptorial (and the data for it was intentionally covered up for decades by academia simply because they assumed ichthyosaurs could only ever eat small prey).

[@Paralititan]

small note here: this paper came out before the publication of Perucetus. This means the evolution of body size analysis compared to whales is no longer valid

[@LeoiCaangWan]

How are there 12 likes a minute after uploading a 9min video?

[@sassa82]

Magic💢💫

[@istvansipos9940]

global auidence of 628 000. Probably all over the time zones. And 86 400 seconds in a day. Meaning that 7-ish subscribers could be watching at any given second. And the guy produces quality videos. Viewers probably insta-like them. Statistically, the 12 likes can happen within 2 seconds.

[@chir0pter]

Saying “the Mesozoic” had lower productivity oceans than “modern” is both a bold and vague statement. How long ago do we include as Modern? Oceans during the Pliocene at least had higher productivity than today. Likewise the Mesozoic encompassed almost 200 million years, with many different climates and oceanic regimes. Big claims require big evidence

[@jimbenge9649]

28 what? Let's get real,

[@michelleeden2272]

Ichthyosaurs were really dumb though. That's why they bought beach-front property in Nevada.

[@brettwood1351]

The prices were amazing though...