The Forgotten Fleet - US Navy Fighting Sail 1815-1860

[@Drachinifel]

Pinned post for Q&A :)

[@FandersonUfo]

When you get a chance sir a video about the rapid expansion of the Canadian Navy in WW2 would be appreciated.

[@kendramalm8811]

Here's an engineering/physics question for you (catnip alert!). What are the effects on performance of variations in the rifling of naval guns? Is there an optimal depth/width of grooves, tightness of spiral, or orientation of spiral (right- or left-handed) for a given size/caliber?

[@GlorfindelofGondolin]

In your opinion, not that you have anyone else’s, what was the best looking aircraft carrier of all time? Also, what was the oddest or funniest looking aircraft carrier of all time? Lastly, what was the most hideous carrier of all time?

[@thibaudduhamel2581]

will you do a video on the French 74-gun third rate of the Teméraire class? It's the most numerous class of 74 gun ships ever built, with 107 units being completed.

[@kingswagii1607]

Have there ever been instances in history where ships of the same navy fought each other in an open fight, and were any sunk?

[@CountArtha]

The USS _Princeton_ was a fascinating experiment: A screw-powered steam frigate in 1843, when everyone else was still using paddle steamers or old-school tall ships. Sadly, the designer was scapegoated for a faulty shell gun that exploded and didn't show up again until 1860s, when he designed the USS _Monitor._

[@overboss9599]

They scapegoated a ship designer for a malfunctioning gun? How the heck did they pull that off?

[@davidtuttle7556]

@@overboss9599 because he designed the experimental breach lock, which failed.

[@woxof46]

@@davidtuttle7556 Wellll... not exactly TLDR; Ericsson got blamed when his partner's crappy gun exploded USS Princeton was originally built by John Ericsson (USS Monitor's designer) to carry a 12 inch muzzle loading gun. Since guns this big pushed the physical limits of wrought iron, Ericsson forged iron hoops around the thing to pre-tension it and keep it from blowing itself apart. Just to make sure he was right, he tested the gun 150-ish times before letting it anywhere near the Princeton. Besides looking kinda different, the gun functioned like any other muzzleloader of the time Unfortunately for Ericsson, his partner Stockton - who built the political and financial capital for the ship - decided he hated his partner and tried pushing Ericsson out of the project to take sole credit. When this didn't work, he decided he'd build a second 12 inch muzzle loader to overshadow Ericsson's. Stockton didn't know the first thing about guns but figured upscaling a normal gun was good enough, tested the thing 5 times, then plopped it on the ship's bow. If Ericsson's 9 ton gun pushed the line of what wrought iron could do, this 13 ton gun snorted that line Now the ship's commander, Stockton hosted a party onboard in 1844 and decided it'd be a great idea to fire the bigger looking gun to impress his guests. The fourth shot blew open the gun's side, killing 6 and injuring 20 of the important politicians at the party. Even though Ericsson had nothing to do with that gun, Stockton deflected all blame on Ericsson, refused to pay the guy, and used political connections to keep the Navy from paying him too

[@andromenia1]

I wanted to like this video, but my like got stuck in norfolk in 1861 and was burned to prevent it falling to the confederates.

[@sugarnads]

My like got sidetracked burning the white house in 1812

[@model-man7802]

Me too,the Cumberland is still sitting on the bottom a quarter of a mile from the place I work.

[@jamiekamihachi3135]

My like was built by a private company and was condemned before it could get to you.

[@model-man7802]

I work in Norfolk now down at the river and I'm stuck at the shipyard now.It hasn't burned yet though.

[@jtough7499]

My Like has not yet begun to fight!!

[@scottygdaman]

It seems the u.s. Navy's philosophy of.. " why is there an open space there put a gun in it" goes back a ways.

[@WojciechP915]

Have you seen the Stryker armored vehicles being parked on the top of the amphibious assault ships? Its hilarious, but effective.

[@IngramZero]

@@WojciechP915 Those are LAVs, (Light Armored Vehicles), the Strkers in the ARMY look the same but are heavier and based on the GEN 3 hulls. I think LAVs are still modified Gen 1 since they want to keep the weight down for airlift

[@WojciechP915]

@@IngramZero so are they actually the same vehicle, with just different armour, upgraded suspension, or just a superficial resemblance?

[@Feiora]

@@WojciechP915 the Stryker is based on the LAV III which was based on the LAV25, hence the similarity...

[@robertf3479]

@@WojciechP915 "If it looks stupid but it works … it isn't stupid." During Desert Shield / Storm we had USMC Stinger SAM teams tasked to take positions in the catwalks around the flight deck and up on top of the superstructure. USS Nassau (LHA 4) and I think USS Tarawa (LHA 1) and several of the other amphibs did the same, "just in case."

[@Mishn0]

Two notes for viewers from outside the US: The frigates were almost all named after US rivers and, Native American names (many of these rivers) are almost all pronounced with the emphasis on the next to last syllable.

[@kendramalm8811]

I noticed that too, the US had its own River Class Frigates!

[@CAPFlyer]

And Kudos to Drach for getting almost all of them right, except for Sabine which is pronounced with an "E" instead of an "I" - kzbin.info/www/bejne/hoXNkJKohrWXo5o

[@sugarnads]

Thats a good latin word. The sabines were an italian tribe. And most of the english speaking world (atleast those watching this) probably understand the naming conventions

[@Mishn0]

@Deborah Meltrozo Because they were the names of rivers in the United States, just like I said. Go be woke somewhere else.

[@Mishn0]

@Deborah Meltrozo Hahahahahah, keep digging...

[@treeshakertucker5840]

What this a new ship? Nah this is the same ship I assure you! It has at least THREE of the original timbers!

[@klobiforpresident2254]

It even was built by Theseus himself!

[@scottgiles7546]

Was it built with George Washington's Axe? (Had to replace the handle seven times and the head twice, but it's George Wahington's Axe..)

[@jackandersen1262]

It would be funny if the timbers from the original HMS Macedonia were the ones that made it into the Macedonia hotel.

[@AtomicBabel]

5:40 oh, that looks familiar... you must drop by the USN Museum at the Washington Navy Yard when visiting the States

[@jakebond2294]

Otherwise known as Triggers Broome.

[@zacharyzier314]

American Cannon Makers: “So how many cannons do you want?” USS Ohio: “Yes”

[@izzyman556]

Same amount of guns as the HMS Victory, But for some reason the HMS Victory looks a lot bigger. I wonder if the USA has any surviving ship of the line class vessels we can visit.

[@dakkarnemo1094]

@@izzyman556 We don't have any. All that were built were either burned or broken up for scrap.

[@Feiora]

@@izzyman556 Yea, its like Drach and Matt point out, either they were scrapped or were at Norfolk... One would think though that perhaps instead of recovering a frigate from Norfolk that recovering the Pennsylvania would have been top priority? and technically you only need but a hadnful of men, 1 sail and some rigging to get a vessel under way albeit VERY slowly, but that could be solved once the vessel had gotten out of Norfolk where to could be safely towed or have other ships send over additional men, sail, rigging and enough provisions to get it to a friendly port...

[@izzyman556]

@@dakkarnemo1094 That is sad, We are lucky we have battleships we can still visit unlike the British. However, there is a British built battleship in Japan.

[@dakkarnemo1094]

@@izzyman556 Right, the _Mikasa._ Pretty much the only sailing warships you can visit here in the U.S. are _Constitution_ in Boston and _Constellation_ in Baltimore. Neither are a ship of the line.

[@WatcherMovie008]

Take a drink everytime Drach mentions a ship being burned in Norfolk Naval Yard.

[@jtough7499]

I don't feel like alcohol poisoning right now...thanks...

[@Julianna.Domina]

I wanma die, but not right now, man

[@josephdedrick9337]

@@jtough7499 its only 3-4 drinks, plus 1-2 more if u include all the burnings

[@josephdedrick9337]

4-6 drinks if you drink everytime he says a ship is burned...someone will get a bit buzzed.

[@IM_THE_CHANGLLER]

i can last 50 or 30 drinks

[@warrenlehmkuhleii8472]

"Oh boy I sure do love being a US navy sailor in Norfolk Virginia in 1861."

[@noblereflex8332]

I'll never forgive them for not saving the Pennsylvania

[@TeddyBelcher4kultrawide]

Oh hello, don’t let me find out! I’ll never tell💯

[@TeddyBelcher4kultrawide]

Correction, the USS Northfalk, Virginia did not save the HMS Duke of wellington

[@jackgreen412]

Roasting marshmallows?

[@SeekerLancer]

The whole "we just repaired the old ship and didn't build a brand new ship" lie is the reason why people had claimed for years that Baltimore was in possession of the original USS Constellation frigate when in fact it is a mid 19th century sloop-of-war. Great video on the mostly forgotten pre-Civil War US navy.

[@lexington476]

I was actually going to bring that up until I saw your post. I remember visiting the USS Constellation when I was a teen, when they still thought it was the frigate.

[@wotnograpefruit]

@@lexington476 Chapelle's "History of the American Sailing Navy" (1949) is quite clear that the USS Constellation in Baltimore was a new ship, in fact, the last pure sailing ship built by the US Navy. It just took until 1994 before the museum trust admitted it.

[@lexington476]

@@wotnograpefruit it is still a great ship to visit.

[@wotnograpefruit]

@@lexington476 That she is.

[@CountArtha]

The USS Constellation of Theseus?

[@__-jt4tv]

So, basically, the US Navy used the Ffestiniog Railway Restoration approach. "This is a restored locomotive... the boiler, tanks, frames and tender are new but some of the cab fittings are original!" Admittedly, they're also pretty open about it.

[@randomuser2461]

What would be more interesting is if they took a similar approach and each time they did it they got multiple ships out of it!

[@bradmiller7486]

HMS Victory?

[@francesconicoletti2547]

The ship of Theseus is supposed to be a philosophical idea, not a government scam.

[@Shrike58]

You say philosophical concept, I say day-to-day bureaucratic operations!

[@funnelvortex7722]

Ship of Theseus is the basis of many many scams

[@asdasd-ty9se]

USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA USA

[@wagahagwa6978]

@@Shrike58 porks will be barreled

[@seafodder6129]

US Navy: /raises hand US Congress: Who are you?

[@billbolton]

Great content, large topic, maybe it should have been done in several parts, one part now and later parts to be kept in drydock for several years until commissioned.

[@matthewseligman5470]

US Navy: "I solve practical problems. Like how do I keep some big mean motherhubbard Naval Power like Britian from tearing me a structurally superfluous new behind? The Answer: use a gun. And if that don't work? (Loads cannon with malicious intent) " *U S E M O R E G U N* "

[@aurorathearcticwolf4243]

I see you are a TF2 player as well!

[@tremedar]

@@aurorathearcticwolf4243 Or just someone who gets a kick out of 'meet the whatever' videos. I tried to get into TF2 but it just didn't take. I don't think I'll ever seriously play an FPS again after Wolfenstein: ET.

[@aidanrushak7981]

Ah, a man of culture.

[@TerrellThomas1971]

Amen!!!

[@matthewseligman5470]

@@tremedar I have almost 700 hours in TF2

[@dereseemdereseem]

Hey drach. Just wanted to let you know my four year old son hums the opening theme for the five minute guides, rather well. Maybe I watch a tad too much? Nah. I'll just watch more

[@marcuscorder]

HAHA! My 4 year old son does this too!

[@sarjim4381]

LOL. I'm afraid my cat is starting to do the same...

[@snorri0411]

sounds to me like we need a new section for the Drydock - Weekly Dose Of Kids And Cats Humming Drach Music! I'm sure you fine people could record an mp3 sample some time? :D

[@adamdubin1276]

RECORD THE LAD!!!!! This must be documented and given over to Drach for specials and such.

[@CTXSLPR]

My 7yr old might be able to hum along but his first question upon seeing a warship ANYWHERE is “Does Uncle Drach have a video on _________”. We are all big fans.

[@MrPhil360]

50:31 Un-Americanly under gunned. It's a verb now. Lol

[@mancubwwa]

Actually it's an adverb

[@drfilhobarreiros]

shame on you, shame on our cow

[@christopherconard2831]

The themes of the day: You can never have enough guns. Caught in port, and burned.

[@arctictiger8690]

"Question: is there empty deck space on the ship? If the answer is yes, then what are you doing, you idiot? Put a gun there!"

[@CaiLeonas]

... This explains so much about Pearl Harbor...

[@christopherconard2831]

@@arctictiger8690 There was some room for the crew to stand, should they need to repel boarders. The Navy questioned this, but was then shown the collection of two bore rifles they'd be equipped with.

[@randomuser2461]

@@christopherconard2831 Technically, if you have enough guns, you don't have to worry about being boarded.

[@warrenlehmkuhleii8472]

US Fleet 1815-1860: Monies please. Congress: Oh I forgot we have a navy, eh, nah, you do not need money.

[@toddmoss1689]

Congress: Why do we need a navy? Indians don’t have anything larger than a canoe.

[@markkelly6259]

The United States adopted a strategy of building coastal defense forts that had the advantage of not rotting in the water and not needing to be fully manned during peacetime. The forts also were more in line with the 19th century isolationist political philosophy of the United States.

[@ronclark9724]

During the Civil War the US Navy did get some new ships built, many were monitors. But the navy took the backseat again after the Civil War to Manifest Destiny. Not until the debacle at Samoa did the US start building a steel navy. A steel navy which defeated the Spanish ten years later. Yes, a debacle at Samoa, not a victory. The US Navy was defeated by a large typhoon, which sunk three warships. All were wooden hulled squared rigged steamers which were the entire US Pacific fleet. And to think most Americans have no clue how America ended up with American Samoa... Google it folks, the US didn't win, buy, or annex American Samoa...

[@ethanmcfarland8240]

@@ronclark9724 So how did we get American Samoa?

[@RedXlV]

Now imagine if USS Pennsylvania had been razeed to create the most hilarious "frigate" in the history of the age of sail.

[@josephdedrick9337]

well they tried, they just went a wee bit far.

[@jacksteele3028]

They tried but forgot the extra “e”

[@garfieldfarkle]

Very well done, Drach! A couple of problems with keeping the framing of these ships on hand for many years was 1) keeping the wood dry, because wherever it sat on something would be susceptible to rot; 2) keeping the wood conditioned with oils, so it did not dry completely and split; 3) protect it somehow from termites and powder post beetles; and 4) replace large members that would bend too far out of shape to be used. Wood takes on a life of its own and will bend and twist in various ways that can be compensated for to a certain degree, but at other times it becomes insistently incorrigible. I suggest placing credits for sources at the end of these videos rather than in Drydocks, because it is next to impossible to track them down. I do not know if you used them, but I have a couple of books by Howard I. Chapelle that have a lot of information and many nice illustrations. I have first editions of "The History of American Sailing Ships" (1935) and "The History of The American Sailing Navy" (1949). Keep up the good work.

[@robertguttman1487]

An excellent contemporary account of what life was like in the U.S. Sailing Navy during the first half of the 19th century can be found in the novel "White Jacket", by Herman Melville. Originally published in 1850, "White Jacket" was based on Melville's own experiences on board the frigate USS United States during a voyage from Hawaii to New York in 1843-44. Although a number of other 19th century authors wrote books about life on board the naval vessels of the time, Melville's is unique in that his was not the experience of an officer, but of a common sailor. As a young man Melville shipped out to the Pacific on a whaler, jumped ship in the Marquesas Islands, eventually worked his way to Hawaii on another whaler, and was living as a beachcomber when he managed to be recruited as a sailor on board the USS United States, by which means he was able to work his way home. Out of those extraordinary experiences Melville subsequently created the novels "Typee", "Omoo", "White Jacket" and "Moby Dick".

[@Chrisey96.]

Started watching this on the bus this morning and didn't realise I was going "dan dan da da da da da da" out loud 😂

[@thehoopscoop]

Drach, there is a upcoming game called Ultimate Admiral, Age of Sail coming out soon. Also the same team seems to be building an age of dreadnoughts. Figured it would be of interest. 😉

[@vridiantoast7096]

thehoopscoop that definitely is of interest to us. As long as it lasts longer than Naval action, that is.

[@SeekerLancer]

Really looking forward to the new Ultimate Admiral.

[@klobiforpresident2254]

@Frederik Nielsen >Implying rule the waves isn't early 90's state of the art

[@TheDowntimesfl]

@@vridiantoast7096 Still too soon for the death of Navel Action, man that was fun right up until the devs got involved..

[@logman3707]

@@TheDowntimesfl I still play it occasionally, it's not bad.

[@weldonwin]

9:38 US Navy: Tell me more about this "Ship of Theseus"?

[@admiraltiberius1989]

Absolutely fantastic work Drach, one of your best videos yet. As an American I'm guilty of knowing very little of the American Navy between the 1820s till the 1860s. So your video was absolutely spot on in educating me. Also.....I love the River names of the American frigates in this period. I wish they still used it honestly. Sabine is a river in my home state. And the later US Frigate, Wabash, is one of my favorite ships ever. And YES I would love to know how the USS Pennsylvania would have fared in a slugging match vs CSS Virginia. That would be one for the ages.

[@constantdrowsiness4458]

The historical literature on this topic has been sadly lacking until recent years.

[@admiraltiberius1989]

@@constantdrowsiness4458 as far I know the American navy of this period we are discussing was mainly focused on trade, exploration and beating up on Mexico, random native tribes of various sorts.

[@Legitpenguins99]

@@admiraltiberius1989 that's all there was for them to do. The US (beleive it or not) actually minded it's own business at one point and only dealt with actual threats

[@admiraltiberius1989]

@@Legitpenguins99 except the whole business with Mexico....let's ignore that lol. But the US Navy's strategy in the event of war of forcing the enemy to come to our coast with a fleet of a size that could leave them vulnerable at home most likely would have worked. The British would have been really the only Navy that could have tackled America and defended the home waters.

[@johnomirth]

Admiral Tiberius I absolutely hate the American practice of naming warships after politicians. I guess I'll give a pass to the "Washington" and "Franklin".

[@airplanenut89]

29:28 "Fortress Monroe" My grandfather served there as a Captain in the US Army reserves in charge of a disappearing gun battery during WWII. It is also where my Dad was born during WWII, and the reason why he is still a Yankee since Fortress Monroe never left Union hands despite being in Virginia. According to my Dad, grandpa would tell him "It's Fortress Monroe because a fortress has a moat and a fort does not."

[@colbeausabre8842]

During my time in the Army, there was a minor debate simmering as to whether it was "Fortress" or "Fort", The Army decided on "Fort" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Monroe

[@JeffreyWilliams-dr7qe]

In the 19th century?

[@seanhillman1016]

You do not often hear about the Quasi-War with France, so it was nice to hear that get a mention. Great video.

[@michaelsnyder3871]

1. The early ships of the line had main deck gun ports close to the waterline. This was not a design defect. The USS Franklin, Independence and Washington were not designed as crusing ships or station flagships for squadrons, like in the Med. They were intended to break the blockade by sheer gunpower. This meant that they were not intended to carry 60-90 days of supplies and fresh water or shot and powder for multiple engagements. Loaded per their original mission, the gun ports would have been sufficiently high to engage in any sea state in which sailing ships could actually fight a battle. 2. If you didn't immediately need a ship, then leaving her on the stocks to season made sense. The RN did it for quite a number of first rates. The also did for a number of ships building at the end of a war, such as in 1763-65, 1783-85 and 1815-1817. The alternative was launching and placing directly in "ordinary", ie. floating reserve. The RN did this also, though usually with older ships not needed for the peacetime navy. For the USN, a major issue was recruiting crews, as USN policy was for voluntary recruitment versus the RN use of the "press gang". If a ship was complete to the point of launching, it could be completed and outfitted for sea in 90 days which is how long the USN figured it would take to recruit the crew. Given how cheap Congress was when ever we weren't actually at war, it made a lot of sense. BTW, on the Lakes, the USN actually sank a number of its surviving vessels at the end of 1815. The fresh water and mud in the Lakes actually preserved the ships better than if they had been left floating. The USN expected it would take 90 days or less to raise, refit and recruit a crew for a frigate like USS Superior. Also, the USS New Orleans (120) was left on the stocks for lamost 100 years. 3. One can debate the legality of the USN using "repair and maintenance" funds to build new ships in the guise of building old ships. Yet when one looks at the US defense policy of the 19th and early 20th century and the refusal of Congress to recognize the realities of national defense, one is hard put to fault the USN. Pulling apart a rotten, obsolescent ship of the line to build a modern steam frigate (USS Franklin) makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately the US Army couldn't do such things about under-manned regiments and obsolete coastal fortifications and artillery. 4. It should also be noted that one of the things that helped bring about an entente with the British Empire by the 1850s was the USN's participation in the supression of piracy in the Carib and Far East and the anti-slavery patrols in which USN and RN warships "unofficially cooperated" in accomplishing their missions.

[@CanuckWolfman]

"Clearly, this is actually the old ship and not at all a new ship that we've stuck a few bits on." - Drachinifel, Five Minute Guide to the USS Theseus

[@tommyblackwell3760]

Excellent video, I daresay you've read Howard I. Chapelle's "The History of the American Sailing Navy" a time or two. If not, it's a truly magisterial work that covers not only fighting sail but the various tenders, barges, etc that were used in harbors and yards for fleet support. Thanks for covering this little-known period of US naval history!

[@sarjim4381]

Indeed, a great book and, unlike so many other naval history books, it's available used in hardcover at a reasonable price. It has plans for almost all the ships mentioned in the video. I had to pause the playback and go dig it out of the boxes most of my books are stored in so I could follow along. It also has some beautiful halftones of some of the ships, and is one the last high quality coated stock naval history books the average person can still afford.

[@jangelbrich7056]

Indeed I too fetched that very book (and some more) as well from my private library after watching this video, to look up some more details. A great summary, thanks for making this video!

[@mnd.c.8418]

Yes, at last we get to talk about the Mexican American War! Also, I have a book called the 'Ship the Hunted Itself' and long out of print. However, it tells the bizarre story of the 'Armed Merchant Cruisers' RMS Carmania and the SMS Cap Trafalgar, their equally strange captains/crew, how they 'disguised' themselves as the other and the Battle of Trindade. It is a beautiful oddity that one can only find at the start of the Great War and I'm wondering if you could talk about it. If you want I could loan you that book, how accurate it is though, I have always questioned given... How odd the story is.

[@sarjim4381]

I have the notion in the back of my mind that Drach did a relatively short segment on WWI commerce raiders, but it seems like quite a while ago. I agree with the suggestion though. WWI and WWII commerce raiders and merchant cruisers could easily occupy an hour segment each. I must confess a soft spot in my heart for the last of the pirates.

[@gunther_hermann]

While Cap Trafalgar had the misfortune to disguise itself as Carmania, instantly revealing to Carmaina it was a raider in disguise, Carmania was not similarly disguised as Cap Trafalgar.

[@sarjim4381]

@@gunther_hermann I don't think the disguises made much difference in this battle. It was unlikely anything as large as the Cap Trafalgar would have had any innocent reason to be lying in the small harbor of Trindade Island alongside two colliers. The Carmania had been sent to the archipelago specifically because the Admiralty suspected the Germans had set up a base there, and it was known the Brazilian Navy had no ships in the area. It was quite a furious battle between the two former liners, and one that went on for hours. Considering how outmatched Cap Trafalgar was, it's amazing that she nearly sunk Carmania, with only two 4.1" guns compared to the eight 4.7" guns of her British opponent. It was a battle at close quarters not seen in the age of steam before or after. It would make, as the British would say, a cracking good tale of two passenger liners fighting each other to the death, and a great episode for Drach to present.

[@Reepicheep-1]

9:38 explains the Enterprise between TOS & Trek 1. 'Of COURSE it's the same ship! Except for this, and this, and...'

[@sadwingsraging3044]

Americans: Lets build some ships of the line guys! The French are making noises. The French: Youzz calzz dat ah fleets? We shall decimate them! The English: Right mates, as soon as they take half their fleet across the pond it is seal clubbing time!

[@christopher5723]

"originally intended for greek rebels but they couldn't pay for it" how typically greek...

[@Imperator_Gr]

Well that's only half the truth. The shipbuilders ,taking advantage of the difficult situation that Greece was in ,caused delays to the delivery of the ships and demanded almost double the money, in what I presume is typical american fashion. No wonder the revolutionary government could not pay the extorting american "entrepreneurs". Also, it maybe was a good thing for the Greeks judging from the quality of the construction.

[@bullettube9863]

A great video to go with my book collection! An interesting point about the captured USS Chesapeake, the British made a wooden desk for the prime minister which later would be presented to America as a gift (gift?) and used by President Bush. Drachinifel you consider these ships over armed, but in America it's not whether you are over armed but are you over armed enough? As to the free board problem. The US Navy wasn't the only navy that found their ships riding low. It wasn't until navies stopped using the calculations for merchant ships, and adopted "true" displacement that this problem was resolved. I hate it when someone says the Titanic was bigger then the Iowa because it "weighed" 72,000 tons.

[@naverilllang]

Weight is a perfectly fine measurement. By definition, a boyant object will displace an amount of fluid equal to its weight. Weight is displacement, and I don't know what other measurement would be used to judge the size of a ship. Also, who the fuck is saying that the Titanic weighs 70,000 tons? That's not even close, unless you count all of the extra ballast it unexpectedly took in. Finally, the Iowa displaced 45,000, which is 7,000 less than Titanic. So Titanic is bigger.

[@bullettube9863]

@@naverilllang There have been several TV shows, History channel etc, that say the Titanic "weighed" 70,000 tons, I don't know where they got this figure from. The merchant marine use a different standard then Navies. A merchant ship is based on the weight of water if the ships hull was filled up to the weather deck, that is the first deck exposed to the weather. It does not define the true weight of the ship, as most of a ship is hollow and even the engine rooms are not solid. Titanic was classified as being 52,000 tons. It was 882ft long, beam was 96ft and draught was 34ft. The height of the ship from bottom to the weather deck was 64 ft. The Iowa was 887ft long, beam was 108ft, draught was 37ft. The distance from keel to weather deck was 67ft. Being beamier, it spread it's weight out, and it's displacement is based on the actual amount of water it displaces. At full load the ship displaced 58,000 tons. So no, not only was the Iowa bigger overall but also heavier. Titanic had 17,000 tons of steel installed at launch, the Iowa had 30,000 tons of steel installed at launching ( a record!) and because it launched so slowly it was decided to stop building the other three at 28,000 tons to insure they launched without incident.

[@gregbaumgartner8257]

I have made all of the ship's that were at Norfolk in April 1861. My builds are on Ship's of scale and Model ship world. In 1/72 scale.

[@lucassmith4524]

Yesterday I was in a conversation and the phrase "On the stocks" fell out of my face while we were talking about ships being built. I said it like I had been saying it my entire life. I think that is neat. Thanks Drach.

[@nektulosnewbie]

A similar thing to the "rebuilds happens with aircraft in the US military to this day. Sometimes Congress will only allow funds for a new design, not a warmed over one so a new designation is used for an old design. Other times funds won't be allowed for a new aircraft so a new one is sneaked under an old designation. An example of the former is when the USAF ordered a new variant of the B-29 but building an old, WWII era bomber post-war produced opposition so they just called it the B-50. An example of the latter is the F-18E/F which was excused as simply updating the F-18 when they have only superficial features in common with their greater size showing the most difference.

[@santiago5388]

Yesterday was a terrible day, and I have no reason to belive that today will be better. But at least this video will make me smile regardless of what happens. Thanks you.

[@sarjim4381]

I hope today has been a better day for you.

[@santiago5388]

@@sarjim4381 Thanks, it has been so far, I gues yesterday wasn't my day. At the future should be better if I push foward 😉

[@sarjim4381]

@@santiago5388 That's good. The best piece of advice I ever got about how to handle troubles is try to remember your biggest worry from exactly one year ago. If you're like most of us, you've long forgotten what that was, and it's a good idea of what today's troubles will seem like a year from now.

[@santiago5388]

@@sarjim4381 that is true and a good advice. These last days have been hard but in a year or less will be just a bad memory. Thanks you for the concern and wise advice random person😊

[@sarjim4381]

@@santiago5388 You're welcome. I've made it to 73 through some very tough times by remembering that advice. You're still young and, believe me, you have some great times ahead of you.

[@MatthewChenault]

It was also around this time that the US Navy began to build up it’s dry dock facilities along the East coast. One of them, Dry Dock No. 1 at the Norfolk Naval Yard, was the first dry dock to be used to service a large vessel -the USS _Delaware -_ in 1833. In fact, the dry dock was commissioned specifically under the same act that led to the expansion of the United States Navy as a means of better outfitting their older vessels. The dry dock is still an active dry dock, which was still being used by the US navy well into the 1940’s for servicing submarines and smaller naval vessels and, today, for commercial vessels.

[@alpenjon]

I am blown away by the quality of this! Well done and thank you!

[@sse_weston4138]

You can see the USS Cumberland's bell in Norfolk, twas recovered from the wreck

[@falcorusticolus4360]

Thanks for this video. You are quite right that the ships of this era are mostly forgotten.

[@garyhill2740]

You know, Mr. Drach....those rating standards are just a rough guide ..... :) I sense a deliberate Union policy in action: The burning of the tall ships by the Confederacy was the 1860's Pearl Harbor. "A day which will live in infamy.....! Well, Mr. President.....we're going to have to build those ironclads NOW"

[@HandyMan657]

Thanks for the live stream from the bridge of the New Jersey. Fair winds, Drach. Keep safe

[@davy1458]

I can't get enough of these five minute guides that are about fighting sail

[@GlorfindelofGondolin]

Another great video about a time overlooked too often. Thanks for the present!

[@crazypickles8235]

very interesting perspectives offered on american designs of early 19th century frigates and i enjoy how the US was indicated almost always "overarming" her vessels

[@naverilllang]

There is no such thing as overarming a ship, as long as you define "proper armament" the be "nothing less than the maximum firepower it can hold without sinking." Indeed, it's not the ships that are being overarmed, but the guns that are being undershipped.

[@kimleechristensen2679]

At first I was a little, "so what... when is the next video on aircraft carriers going to turn up" But then I dug into it, and was amazed and pleasantly surprised about this relatively forgotten time period of the US navy historie. Thank you Drac, for this "little" gem of an video. Keep it up 👍😄😎

[@MrArcher7]

The ships of that era were so sleek and pleasing to the eye

[@charliecharrzardoz4781]

I'd love a part 2 to this featuring the US navy's sloops of war. I feel like the US really utilized sloops as the UK did Frigates as a medium class multi purpose warship and hence by the time of the civil war they got big enough to become the main type of ship in the navy. It's an interesting evolution in design that sorta starts from the Preble ships of the Barbary wars.

[@TysoniusRex]

This video was just so wonderful. I'd known of the first six ships and their histories, but knew very, very little of ships that joined the fleet after that time. More than worth the time to watch. Thanks for making this!

[@bleutz]

Very well done (as always). I hit the "like" during the opening music, you never disappoint.

[@slightlyshabby9226]

Great video! Learned a lot and had fun doing it. My day is officially improved.

[@Chironex_Fleckeri]

I know it probably wouldnt be popular, but what about a video on the economics of age of sail ships across countries, comparing the priorities and expense levels of different navies. What went into building these ships? How expensive were they? How specialized were the industries required? How expensive was upkeep, wages, supplies? I think you get the picture.

[@yalelingoz6346]

You were right Drach, that was a lot more interesting than the title sounded. I had to go and look up what a receiving ship does, which isn't at all what I expected. So I'm glad I looked it up. :)

[@c182SkylaneRG]

Same. :)

[@sadwingsraging3044]

But now I wonder what the difference would be between a training ship and a receiving ship!

[@xgford94]

The length of “service” of some of these ships seem long but as with B52’s (likely to hit 100 years of service) it’s a case of if it ain’t broke then don’t fix it

[@naverilllang]

Considering the matter, a 32lb gun is a 32lb gun regardless of the ship it's on. The older ships might be slower and weaker and carry fewer guns, but the firepower of those guns isn't any less than any newer ships. At the end of the day, a gun is a gun, so you might as well use it.

[@grisall]

These are great videos - The level of knowledge/research required to produce such a body of work is astounding to me. BTW - I believe the USS Constitution is the only currently commissioned US Navy ship that ever sank an enemy ship.

[@fistpunder]

I love history from every era, and you explain it so well. Nicely done sir. I enjoyed your video.

[@fred1barb]

My grandfather immigrated from Scotland to work at the Union Iron Works, a shipyard in San Francsico. He was there when the Independance was towed in for conversion to a floating restaurant/exhibit at the Exposition. He removed a copper spike, marked "US" from the ship. We think this was done at the yard and not later when the ship was burned out on the mud flats. The spike went to my father, and he passed it on to me. Quite a nice reminder of our early Naval history.

[@lmyrski8385]

USS Essex (1799) was also a frigate that was captured by the British (1814), BTW. Also, I know it is an easy mistake to make, but Portsmouth Navy Yard is actually in Kittery, ME across from Portsmouth, NH. It has always been in Maine. Strange, but true.

[@YTMegiddo]

Thank you, I really enjoyed the video. First time I ever heard of these ships discussed!

[@joetanaka6446]

Greatful for your well made clip Drach. Nicely done 🚢

[@1roanstephen]

Thank you. One of my Great Grand Fathers was USN in the Civil War and this review adds perspective. You do great work.

[@craighagenbruch3800]

breaking news drach had become most wanted after talking about the forgotten/forbidden period from 1815 to 1860

[@jamespfp]

10:35 -- *LULZ!!* I was not aware of the period when the US Navy had the Ship of Theseus.... #ItsAFact

[@Polak-dd7ds]

That's like a Montana class running aground on her maiden voyage, yet that's to be expected. The Iowa class loved it as well.

[@athopi]

Only once, have I seen a book on the US ships of this era and it was $120 in 2005, in a nautical shop in Greenport, NY. I just didn't have the extra money at the time to buy it. Thank you for this in-depth look at them!

[@richardfredericks4069]

Try Amazon. Could probably get it for much less used

[@patrickaalfs9584]

Really informative video. Thanks Drach. I have to check out some of your primary source materials. You obviously have been doing some digging.

[@brazenhammer3307]

The ship of Pork, Now that sounds like one ham of a ship!

[@Knobstock]

I read an account somewhere that the USS SANTEE had a fundamental design problem that haunted the naval architect for many years after the ship was completed. I'm not sure, exactly, what the issue was, but my hunch is that the guns on the gun deck were arranged directly opposite each other, so that the recoil from one broadside would bash into guns on the opposite side. Have you heard about this?

[@dwightchaos9449]

They weren’t attached to a block n tackle like many used to do back then?

[@ericoreilly8368]

I just want to say, i have watched this video at least 10 times lol. Absolutely love it. I am from Boston and feel a kind of personal connection to the USAs early history especially dealing with the USS Constitution. I have dragged my parents to that frigate so many times as a kid lol. Also being able to see it regularly just driving by on our way into the city sitting in ordinary at the Charlestown navy yard. But now im obsessed with our lost 3rd rates, i have found a picture of the USS Ohio sitting in the Charlestown navy yard from about 1870? It was taken from the top of the Bunker hill monument. Im sure many people who had cameras then took a similar picture, but the one i found is real good, the Ohio is as a recieving ship in the pic and just looks so cool, and solid! What a beast! Im thinking of painting a picture of the old photograph. Sorry for rambling. I love your content, keep it up Drachinifel!

[@95DarkFire]

The "uniform armament" - which was also developed by many other navies - seems like a great idea, but it was quite groundbreaking. Like many inventions of that era, it is almost a shame that they were so rarely used in action.

[@michaelsnyder3871]

BTW, the USS Congress was the SISTER ship of the USS Constellation and was of both the same original design and rating, at 163' on the gun deck and 40' beam. USS Congress was "doubled" (a second layer of planking was added to reinforce the hull) and USS Constellation had been lengthened. USS Congress was replaced by the last sailing frigate built for the USN and the USS Constellation was replaced by a modern (for the mid-19th century) sailing sloop that was a different design and equipped with large Dahlgren solid/shell guns.

[@Wolf-Rayet_Arthur]

A 1 hour documentary! It has taken me 18 seconds to like this video on the weight of that fact alone :D

[@martentrudeau6948]

The "Hunter's Wheel" was a bad idea and waste of money, but this wasn't the first or the last time the US Navy wasted time and money. This is an interesting time in US Naval history, this is a great video and I learned a lot, bless you.

[@bagofchicken]

"very thickly built" and "of a somewhat heavier nature than average" describes both warships and walmart customers. Murica!

[@GenghisVern]

often called the "Antebellum" period

[@quentinking4351]

"Betweenebellum"

[@davidd7940]

Ante (before) bellum (the war)

[@kendramalm8811]

"More bang for the buck". Yup, the unofficial slogan of the USN!

[@luchs2907]

Kendra Malm now a days it seems it’s more buck for the bang! XD

[@propellhatt]

USS Zumwalt has entered the chat

[@sarjim4381]

@@propellhatt The USN would appreciate not having the Zumwalt mentioned, thank you.

[@irondarknessdarkness8900]

u grotz need to learn about the rule of Dakka ..chuckles

[@klobiforpresident2254]

I always thought it was the motto of battlecruisers. Eh.

[@chrisbritt4266]

Thank you for that very informative video drak I would love to hear more about the age of sail and the early days of steam power

[@versal339]

Thank you. Another outstanding presentation on very important but nearly forgotten history. Keep up the good work.

[@Kwolfx]

Even though the U.S.S. Ohio was burned to recover scrap metal from the ship, a good portion of her hull survived and scuba divers can visit what remains of her timbers in Greenport Harbor, NY. Her figurehead of Hercules was preserved and can be seen in Stony Brook, NY. Here's a link with a picture. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Ohio_(1820)#/media/File:Stony_Brook_Figurehead.jpg

[@AdamosDad]

Thanks for spending this much time on US Navy Fighting ships at one shot. Bravo Zulu!

[@muffintrooper6662]

I have a suggestion. I feel that it would be key to the understanding of U.S Naval history by covering the four ABCD ships. The policies based around these ships is already interesting enough, and that not even mentioning the ships themselves.

[@danielseelye6005]

I believe he already went over the ABCD ships in a previous video. I can't remember it off the top of my head, but that does sound familiar. Those were from 1890's if I remember correctly. If not him, then perhaps from _The History Guy_ *Edit* Look up "USS Boston and the Age of American Adventuring" by _The History Guy - History that deserves to be remembered_ on YT. He put it up a couple months ago and did it quite well, but I would like to see Drach's take on it.

[@powellmountainmike8853]

For those interested in this subject, I highly recommend the excellent book The American Sailing Navy by Howard I. Chapelle. It is filled with illustrations and line drawings, as well and comprehensive text, and covers the ships of this period in detail.

[@david9783]

Mike,have you read White Jacket by Herman Melville? He served on the USS United States for a year in 1840-1841.What a great book,easy to read,full of humor and details!

[@joelgetschman6723]

Thank you for sharing that information on forgotten piece of the US Navy History.

[@raginasiangaming910]

Apparently the "Pew pew pew, pew pew pew...'Murika" theory goes back farther than I thought...

[@earlcollinsworth4914]

THank you Drach! As is always the case with you, a job very well done!

[@lexington476]

When you cut down a frigate into a sloop-of-war, does that make the gun deck now the top deck exposed to the air?

[@jakeyaboi6824]

Thanks you so much for this. I’ve always wanted to know about this period

[@emem9278]

First time i ever saw an ad on this channel, woo! Good video.

[@andrei19238]

Swedetwink

[@MsSpiffz]

I'm really interested in the sailing ships of the napoleonic wars (though other fighting sail are still good) but I'd like to see discussion of the advantages/disadvantages of differences and developments in rigging. How well a ship can manoeuvre is an important point in battle, especially for the smaller fighting ships.

[@bozoerectus3207]

When he says 'whilst' take two sips of beer. When he says 'albeit', three shots of vodka. You'll thank me later. Much, much later.

[@tcofield1967]

You talked about how the US Navy fudged somewhat when they 'rebuilt' prior ships. I would love to see something about the USS Constellation, which is still in Baltimore.

[@SearTrip]

Might have been covered since this video, but it appears to have omitted two ships of the line. Chippewa and New Orleans were both laid down for the Lake Ontario squadron in late 1814. They were fairly far along when construction was halted at the end of the war. New Orleans sat on the stocks for close to 70 years before being sold.

[@davefranklin7305]

Congress: "...significantly less capable..." Some things never change...

[@OrbitalAstronaut]

Really great video. Made me happy to watch.

[@calvingreene90]

Before VW ceased production of the original bug people would take rusted out/totalled bugs to Mexico and transfer the VIN number to a new bug and bring the "rebuilt" bug home. This was called a Mexican rebuild; I thought it was a new idea.

[@naverilllang]

It's not. Fucking Plato knew about it. The US Navy basically took the affirmative answer to the Ship of Theseus question.

[@77thTrombone]

@@naverilllang language, dude!

[@naverilllang]

@@77thTrombone English. Are you not familiar?

[@77thTrombone]

@@naverilllang I'm quite familiar, as is obvious. Why you gotta use the f-bomb like some kinda orphan street urchin?

[@naverilllang]

@@77thTrombone why the fuck do you care? It's just a fucking word.

[@johnwhite7219]

Outstanding as usual Drach.