The Forgotten Model T Sports Cars

[@odb_roc_hound4186]

My grandfather grew up in the German section in Rochester NY, north side off Joseph Ave. He told when he was a kid this guy down the street had a model T that he tore down and rebuilt the motor with Ford Tractor valves (bigger) and he hand carved a block of wood into his own cylinder head design. The wood block was the pattern for casting that he sent out. When the casting came he hand finished and polished the combustion chambers before installing on the motor. He ordered a lightweight speedster type body for it. When done he ruled the streets easily beating the Chryslers that were the big deal at the time(1920’s). Last he heard the guy was working on the early jets as an engineer.

[@paulross9287]

Of course he was in the German neighborhood. Haha 😂

[@acad23]

Great video on an automotive era that's all too often forgotten. Nicely tied in to the grassroots Cyclekarts of today.

[@-oiiio-3993]

I drive a hotrod Willys Jeep. Not far from a T Ford, but more capable.

[@bobhill3941]

Yes, I enjoyed the tie in too.

[@billyjoejimbob56]

Great video... informative and entertaining. I had to laugh when you showed the bare Model T chassis as a starting point for a speedster project car. One possible use... sure. But the target market was light commercial use. Those chassis usually became delivery vans, depot hacks (the original wood wagons aka taxi cabs), even ambulances. Imagine a modern day racing series where modified Ford Econoline cutaways faced off against Chevy Express cutaways. Now THAT would be exciting!!!

[@davidortiz173]

The archival footage was really good!

[@andyevans2336]

That beautiful racer @9:30 can be seen on display at the Lemay auto museum in Tacoma,Wa. You really need to see it in person to appreciate it.

[@leebarker539]

Thank you for the nice nod to cycle karts. It's an amazing international movement and you summed it up splendidly. There is a very brief moment in your black-and-white montage where we see a stripped-down Model T and the driver carrying a pig. This is from the Pig and Ford Race at the County Fair in Tillamook, Oregon. It's worth checking out. Been going on for years.

[@highlandrab19]

The difference there is that cyclekarts are gussied up go carts and deliberately kept ridiculously slow

[@mattreps1352]

Wonderful mini documentary. I especially enjoyed seeing the ingenuity and creativeness of the wonderful machines. Very interested in the cyclekarts. Thank you for this wonderful piece.

[@THEScottCampbell]

When I think of America's first mass-produced car, I think of the 1901 Curved Dash Olds.

[@groenekever]

Great video i have fun in 200 euro cars

[@monkeybarmonkeyman]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, my friend. A's and T's were quite fun and indeed, good looking considering what it was - something completely new for the common family.

[@-oiiio-3993]

The Model A took its styling cues from very successful Lincoln designs.

[@joshuayammer1994]

Some of these kits were the OG ricers haha this video was super cool never really thought about any of this !

[@gregwddriver]

Saying Edsel was in charge of FOMOCO or Lincoln is kind of a joke. Henry was a control freak, and giving Edsel the "President" title was a charade. There was one man running Ford, and it was Henry to his death. Too bad. Edsel was a really creative guy and could have taken the company even higher without the archaic restraints his father imposed.

[@bradyelich2745]

Did u see that guy's land speed record holder of Model T or A engine? 214 mph n/a and 240 mph with turbo? He built 4 separate heads that over head valve? 330hp from the motor n/a.

[@bobhill3941]

Amazing video as always, I really love your work. I was so excited to watch this. Thank you for using Ronald Seiber's Classic Speedsters book. I used his website because, between the purchase price, plus tax, shipping/handling I couldn't justify the price.

[@singlesideman]

This is a great, great video. Wow. Thank you!

[@friguy4444]

Great video and a very fun topic! I think back when Henry Ford was selling just the chassis of his "T's" I think it was mostly about making or having made the car into a truck or a delivery van type of vehicle than it was about selling them so people could customize them into a type of hot rod. They did of course but I just don't think Henry was doing it for those reasons. I really like that you included the modern car "Tuner" or "Tooler". I see a huge market for tuning all over the world right now.

[@yakacm]

Funny I just found out about the cycle kart movement last night, then this video gets recommended, the algorithm works in mysterious ways, it'd wonders to behold, lol.

[@davidwright4537]

I don’t know the source of your information, but Henry Ford was actually a speed demon. He started his career building race cars and was often seen on the frozen Detroit River during winter races. A visit to the Henry Ford Museum will educate you on his racing history and his need for speed. Footnote: his second company, the Henry Ford company, which became Cadillac after he walked out with a dispute with the investors after one year, Built powerful high-end cars. Those cars were based on performance as well as luxury.

[@larrysorenson4789]

Starting in 1910 my grandfather, age 14, started working in a tire factory. I believe it was in Racine. All tires were rubber based with layers of rubber soaked linen cloth hand laid over a form. He said it took almost 50 of the cloth patches to go all the way around the form. An additional coat of the raw liquid rubber was poured over the tire and it was clamped into a mold and vulcanized (Cooked) until the rubber cured to the degree that the engineers wanted. He said that one day the entire shop was called to a meeting where the boss held up a well worn tire and told them it had actually covered 10,000 miles. Everyone was thrilled. Every once in a while be was told to put more layers of the cloth on a set or two. And the patches got wider until the largest was the fourth layer. Also the linen that wrapped around the wire hoop rim of the tire was doubled. In the winter they made quite a stockpile of these. When racing season approached, the inventory was snapped up. Imagine going over 100 mph on these thin tires hand formed by fourteen year old kids.

[@newfreenayshaun6651]

Dad has a green and yellow 1928 in the garage, its a lot of fun.

[@zombie_snax]

My uncle owned one, the gears were super confusing , but it was extremely fun .

[@-oiiio-3993]

One must learn 'Henry's dance' to drive a T Ford.

[@Chris-ce7ve]

The good news is that modern car thieves ignore the car, because they don't know how to drive.

[@Peter-jo3wt]

These days, most car thieves don't know how to drive ANY manual transmission. The only car I've ever had stolen was a 5-speed, and they pushed it about 600 ft down an the alley before abandoning it. I expect similar hijinks with my Model T.

[@johngault7329]

Your channel is really good. I see it getting really big...

[@blakegriplingph]

>Fashion statements Kind of like how the import tuner/ricer scene took off in the 2000s lel And Ford's idea of selling barebones cars for hot-rodders actually lives on in the form of similarly-marketed vehicles like the Toyota GR 86 RC and Harley-Davidson Softail Standard, both of which are stripped down packages intended to be customised by the end-user.

[@Chris-ce7ve]

For increasing the sales numbers it was very important that this car proves itself in the long endurance run from coast to coast in 1909. The availabilty of pick-up versions of the car helped to sell the car for farmers and small business people.

[@warrenny]

When I was a child, around maybe 10 or 11, I built wooden models of the Model -T speedsters. When I showed them off to others, no one seemed to understand why it was shaped as if it was going backwards. I think they thought I had built it wrong because I was just a kid

[@oliverscorsim]

I think this is why minibike racing has caught on so hard

[@middleclassretiree]

As the saying goes built it not bought it, always has been the spirit behind hot ridding and customization and always will be it’s a matter of pride that comes from doing it yourself

[@diazfernandezantonio]

Good stuff sir, keep it up in this algorithmic youtube… ❤🎉

[@Mr19thcenturyman]

I did my '31 coupe in the "Gow" job style. Backyard hot rod circa 1938.

[@Trapper4265]

I read the biography of Henry Ford, and it states at one point that Henry Ford became obsessed with racing that he neglected the "peoples" car or the car for the masses. Henry Leland allowed Ford to take his race car and leave the company while demanding he leave the regular car model that he was neglecting, which was retooled and named Cadillac.

[@jasonz7788]

Awesome thanks 👍👍

[@charlesyoungblood1402]

Excellent Video 📹 👏

[@jellydiablo8573]

I saw the first Indy 500 winner The 1911 Marmon Wasp❤

[@peterredman235]

Here here!

[@jamesonpace726]

Well said....

[@Kiddman32]

I noticed in a couple spots that there were pics of people trying to carry PIGS in their Model T's... This is one truly unique race meet at Tillamook, OR during their county fair. They've been doing this crazy thing every year since 1925, and it's still going strong. It's called the Pig-N-Ford Races. The cars are maintained (but not hotrodded) just for this event.

[@bartscarstories]

Yes, I actually live in Oregon and found out about that race recently but it looks like it was a few months ago.

[@overcastfriday81]

Yes people took the t seriously for going fast in dirt track and muroc lake bed racing prior to ww2. Good job mentioning the ford gt40 great grandpa (model k).

[@overcastfriday81]

I consider model ts to be equal to honda civics. Ubiquitous econo car that young guys want to weaponize against more expensive cars. But often they just change the appearance. As a side note, most ohv conversion kits were garbage.

[@shanepowers7566]

What a handsome car.

[@PRH123]

The Model T was indeed an SUV. There were less expensive cars at the time. But the Model T ticked all the boxes for what most people wanted from a car at the time. 4 seats, sitting up high, off-road abilities, fuel economy, reasonably fast. One can find on u tube Ford's offroad tests of the Model T, they are really impressive.

[@DrTheRich]

Not really though, all these things you mentioned aren't what's at the core of an suv. SUV's evolved from the pickup truck by making the bed part enclosed. that's the Utility part in SUV. Model t's, unless you get the literal pickup truck variant. don't have any meaningful storage trunk. It's really just a passenger car. Even nowadays, where SUV's evolved to heavy big luxury cars, that's also not what the T was, the model T was light, simple and cheap. also the model T was the least expensive car of its time. btw, no one gets an SUV for the fuel economy, hahaha.

[@PRH123]

@@DrTheRich T’s were not the least expensive cars of their time. They weren’t expensive comparatively, to the high priced luxury vehicles that existed up to that time, but they were not the cheapest. The essence of an SUV is not a big rear end (many now do not have that), and the modern ones didn’t evolve from pickups. The modern ones have multiple traceable family origins, station wagons, jeeps, small commercial vehicles, but not pickups. The essence of an SUV is high ground clearance and off-road ability. That’s what the S stands for, sport. T’s were designed with high ground clearance and off-road ability. People liked being up in the air, good visibility, away from the road mud, on eye level with horse carriages, and above their fellow human beings. There were cheaper cars then that didn’t have those features. They were also designed for 4 passengers or a 5th with a squeeze, unlike many of the 2 passenger vehicles of the time. That’s the U, utility. Many owners would haul stuff in the back seats, and they did have trunks. People back then just didn’t have as much s- - - as they do nowadays.

[@DrTheRich]

@@PRH123 tell me, which car of the time outbit the $300 you could get a model T for? "and the modern ones didn’t evolve from pickups" lol. modern suv's evolved from traditional suv's like the Ford Bronco which evolved from pickup trucks and possibly ww2 willys (which were still designed for their useful rear end. Yes they added in all kinds of stuff from other car types to make them more luxurious and comfortable, especially european ones. But that doesn't mean they evolved from that. "family origins, station wagons, jeeps, small commercial vehicles" lol, all if the once you mention have big rear ends for hauling stuff, what a way to defeat your own argument in the same breath. The idea of an SUV is that it's a workers vehicle but designed for casual civilian activities like sport, holiday. The model T was designed as a passenger car (BTW nearly half of the T's made were 2 or 3 seaters) without cargo space, with exception of the pickup variant. The truck version the model TT was designed as the utility workers variant meant for hauling. Even it's successor the model A (i own a Tudor) has no cargo space of it's own (except the business coupe) and you have to hang a separate trunk of the back. The high seat position wasn't a conscious design choice, but a convention coming from horse carriages. and a result of setting the seats on top of the straight beam frame. All cars of the time had seats on top of the frame. then you need to call all cars SUVs, which makes the word SUV loose it's meaning. In the 1930s seats started lowering, then SUV's started raising it up again. They weren't designed for off-road... they were designed for roads that were basically indiscernible from a field. It was just a necessity of the time if you wanted a car that would not be stuck inside the city's hardened or paved roads.

[@PRH123]

@@DrTheRich just Google the history of the Suburban for example…. nothing to do with pickups.. the Bronco was a purpose built off-road vehicle that originally had almost no cargo space…. Review this video of Ford’s testing of the T’s off-road abilities…. For which they specifically designed it…. kzbin.info/www/bejne/o2LVnayibbuNfK8si=_gaWGzlhU53kXlL5 The T didn’t cost 300 when it debuted, it was almost 900…. it was many years before the price got down that low… Henry definitely saw it as also a working vehicle, the original concept was to allow it to run on alcohol, which farmers could distill themselves…

[@DrTheRich]

@@PRH123 "Review this video of Ford’s testing of the T’s off-road abilities…. For which they specifically designed it…" Just because they tested it afterwards, doesn't mean they designed it with that purpose from the start. Again, most roads were unpaved, without a vehicle with "offroad capabilities" as we call it today, you wouldn't get anywhere. it took a mere 5 years of the model t production for the price to already be at 360. out of it's nearly 20 year existence, i would call that a lot of years. Still you didn't show me any cheaper car. in 1909 other cars were also more expensive than later. Working as in getting people around. If he truly saw it as a working utility vehicle he would have given it cargo space. Oh wait, he did, it's called the model T pickup, the model T delivery van and all model TT trucks. The basic model T was a passenger car, always meant as such. the running on alcohol thing was because every car manufacturer at the time was still figuring out the best most practical fuel. Alcohol could be gotten from your local pharmacy or utility store if need be. The world wasn't populated with gas station pumps yet. Either way, while you could put pure ethanol in the model T engine, it was never designed for it, the idea was never a serious consideration for the engine design was finalized. You can find debunks of this myth everywhere. Yes the Model T was made ready for rural living, but not for rural work. Farmers also needed to get to church on Sunday.

[@mikeopo]

Great !

[@mrdanforth3744]

You don't mention the great impetus given to the building of speedsters by the growth of small time racing. Let me explain. By 1920 or so auto racing was no longer a novelty and did not draw the large crowds it did in earlier days. This meant it could not support expensive purpose built race cars like the Miller at $10,000 to $15,000. So they conceived the idea of converting a $500 Ford for racing. The cars would not be as fast but the racing would be competitive if everyone started with similar cars and amateurs around the country could afford to race on the local horse racing dirt tracks. To this end companies like Rajo and Frontenac made high compression heads, overhead valve conversions, lowered suspensions, racy bodies etc. so customers could convert their low priced Ford, Dodge and Essex cars for racing. Some of this equipment made its way onto the streets and began the fad of hot rodding. If you want to see one of the early Model T hot rods in action watch a 1932 Cary Grant movie called Hot Saturday.

[@-oiiio-3993]

Yes, yes, and yes some more.

[@Chris-ce7ve]

Not to forget that the prohibition in the twenties has increased the need for faster cars for the boot legger's racing against the police.

[@timmccreery6597]

Look up "old 999". Henry loved racing, and there is evidence he hot rodded some of his own cars

[@crusinscamp]

10:03 to the end says it all

[@daviddavis697]

my dad had a model T withj a REO body

[@gerrywood3584]

Coach works

[@Iowa599]

$850 in 1908 is $25,800 today (11/23) The Model T wasn't as cheap as it seems!

[@joshuayammer1994]

I try telling people stuff like this

[@mrspandel5737]

At that time the Model T was also much more expensive to produce than it would become in later years. Ford was still trying to figure out the mass-production aspect. By improving his production techniques over the years and by optimizing the car's design Ford was able to pump out the T at much faster rates while massively reducing the price as well.

[@DangerAngelous]

I’ll consider this to be a Mustang well before I ever consider a Mach E to be a Mustang

[@ericchristopher1687]

Hmmm... if the Model K cost the equivalent of $100,000, costing $2800 at the time, the $850 Model T would have coast $30,357 in today's dollars. Curious...

[@mrdanforth3744]

You aren't far off if at all. Between 1908 and the early twenties inflation nearly double prices, in other words, the value of the dollar fell by half. At the same time the price of a Ford fell by half. In other words, after 15 years the Model T cost about 1/4 what it originally cost, in terms of buying power. So it cost about $7000 in today's money.

[@thenexthobby]

Dang, you managed to trash both Odysseys (an ultimate people mover) and CB7 ('90-'93) Accords hotrodded with H22s in the same video. Ouch!

[@carlthornton3076]

Very Good!... #101 ✝ {11-29-2023}

[@markellii3093]

The guy didnt have as much fun dropping 100k on a 911 as George Bush did when he...

[@R4baDader]

Holy shit, this was the birthplace of the ricer

[@HomeRoboticsAustralia]

For those that want the toy model: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ipycnaenl76Ne9E

[@pierceaero3005]

I never knew. They all disappeared. Regular ones were still around. Those most of us knew. I Love Cars! How could I not have known? I wonder if electric car makers could provide gear for custom coaches like Ford had. Everyone could have a Batmobile or a Munstermobile or a Monkeemobile, or a Whichevermobile they want. Okay, not your drunk uncle's Whichevermobile. Get a driver.

[@DrTheRich]

lots are still around, hidden in peoples barns under layers of dust.

[@michaeldesilvio221]

What is the difference between a cycle car and a cycle kart? Are they street legal?

[@bartscarstories]

Cyclecars would be street legal yes. My understanding is that early on cyclecars were essentially small, lightweight street legal and racecars using thin tires (think early Morgans). Today the cyclekart movement is sort of imitating that early movement, and most cyclekarts are meant to be modeled after specific iconic racecars

[@mrspandel5737]

​@@bartscarstoriesCyclecars were basically Proto- Subcompacts, much smaller than a full size car like the Model T, often so narrow that they only seat two people in tandem configuration (like the 1950s Messerschmitt Bubblecars) and more often than not powered by Motorcycle engines. They were the definition of a 4-wheeled Motorcycle. The advent of mass production with cars like the Ford T, Austin 7 or Citroen Type C made them obsolete as there were now proper cars that were much more usable and practical but just as affordable if not cheaper by the mid-1920s

[@jamesbizs]

Lol sorry, if I see a car with wheels that are so cambered, the tire patch is on the side wall, I WILL judge the hell out of him

[@Junkers024]

that guy had a pig!

[@-oiiio-3993]

00:36 - "Henry Ford's distaste for sports cars"? Says who? Ford was a hot rodder. Have you never heard of the 999?

[@DrTheRich]

I think he misread it, ford had a distaste for 6 cylinder engines, that's what edsel used in his speedster, and henry didn't like it.

[@-oiiio-3993]

@@DrTheRich Henry invested a lot of time and effort in an 'X-8' configuration that failed.

[@samborambobo]

Cycle karts = lame. Cycle CARS = fucking Awesome.

[@Jakey-The-Snakey]

TEST

[@russwabuda1556]

what research did you do? ford was big into competition. look at the 999, the model t had one of the best power to weight ratios on the market in 1908. hill climb champion. and a real force to early racing. as the rest of the industry mover through the 1920's the design became long in the tooth. new york to seattle. how many model ts have you driven? the model t was the most important car of the 20th century. every other car, and big car scheme is a reflection on the success of th e model t. in fact some of the cars you show as being model ts are not. they drive from the left. please accept this note as construction. best wishes. barney oldfield was hired by ford to go fast.

[@-oiiio-3993]

The 999 was as pure as a hot rod could be, and it's driver was Henry Ford.

[@MustangsTrainsMowers]

And Henry Ford was as stubborn as a barn full of mules. Had he lived long enough he might have canceled the Mustang.

[@bartscarstories]

Yes exactly, why aren't people getting this. I'm not saying he never had sporting interests, but when it came to the model T, he really believed he'd created the only car that would ever exist going forward, and he had no desire to make it anything but a mass produced all arounder.

[@MustangsTrainsMowers]

@@bartscarstories So then Henry Ford only saw the utility side of an automobile?

[@bartscarstories]

@@MustangsTrainsMowers I'm not sure he would have been against making a sports car later on, and he did prior to the T, but with the model T it seems that's all he cared about.

[@DrTheRich]

@@MustangsTrainsMowers Yes. It took his son to design the next car, the model A to also take fashion into account.

[@DrTheRich]

@@bartscarstories I think because it comes off a bit confusing in your video. It sounds like Henry personally had a dislike for any race cars. But I think what you meant was, Henry didn't like the idea of his car company making race cars.

[@OmarDenarzi]

What a wonderful video, Thank you so much my buddy for making such fascinating videos that are full of useful informations and knowledge 🫡🫡 .

[@-oiiio-3993]

Though semi accurate.

[@davemckolanis4683]

Henry DID Get Into Racing VERY EARLY. In A Race That He Won When His Main Competitors Car Overheated. This Attracting Investors To His First Stab At Auto Manufacturing. However His Main Objective Was A Horseless Vehicle That Common Folks Could Afford. Eventually Coming Out In 1908 With His Model-T, That He Kept Improving For 19-Years To Put America On Wheels... The Racing Idea Starting With A Model-T WAS NOT Henry's Priority Objective. Mass Producing Inexpensive, Reliable, Quality Vehicles WAS...

[@-oiiio-3993]

Ford was a hot rodder at heart. He was designer, engineer, and driver of the 999.

[@davemckolanis4683]

@@-oiiio-3993 Henry Only Raced ONCE With 999. His Goal Was To Attract INVESTORS. He Never Raced AGAIN...

[@-oiiio-3993]

@@davemckolanis4683 You sure SHOUT a lot. Show references stating that Ford only raced once in his life.

[@davemckolanis4683]

@@-oiiio-3993 Check The NUMEROUS Films And Written Material About Henry's Entire Life. And YOU TELL ME How Many Races Over How Many YEARS He Was A Driver. Henry HIMSELF Even Stated: " I Never Thought Anything Of Racing, But The Public Refused To Consider The Automobile In Any Light Other Than A Fast Toy. Therefore Later, (After Founding Of The Detroit Auto Company), We HAD TO Race". He Was Also Reluctant To Produce The V8 Engine For 1932, (That Even Had Problems When They First Came Out), When Chevrolet Already Had One Marketed In 1917. AND He Was Also Reluctant To Market A Straight Six Engine As Well. This WAS NOT The Attitude That A High Performance Race Enthusiast Would Have. Henry Was An Industrialist Focused On Innovation And Cost Efficiency. Including Farm Tractors Because Of His Farm Life Up Bringing. Racing Cars WAS NOT Part Of His DNA...

[@DrTheRich]

@@-oiiio-3993 always funny when people claim to know the heart of someone they heard about in a few youtube videos. What even does it mean to be a "Hot Rodder" the word wasn't even used before the 1940s... His 999 were custom race cars, not a modification to an existing car, thus it's not a hot rod, which by definition is modifying an exiting car to be "hotter" You wouldn't call F1 car makers hot rodders, and an F1 car a hot rod now would you?

[@troywilliams3809]

You nailed it about making your own car and the connection. My son built a cool one @m57.w108

[@davidburke1794]

Just call this a.bookreport