The formula to prove God is true faith | Richard - Malaysia | Talk Heathen 03.38

[@jtstar10]

I had Faith,..she was a good cook and a great lover. But I moved on and now I Iive with Joy!!

[@MagnumInnominandum]

Charity burned me, I never met Faith.

[@keefzcobra4616]

Lol....me too.

[@seanjones2456]

GREAT COMMENT!

[@brucebaker810]

Skip Hope atm. CV19 Pos.

[@victorhayden7053]

I can see Deardrie now Lorain has gone.

[@brucewayne7875]

15:37 " I believe in God, but I can't demonstrate it". Says the guy calling in with a formula to prove the existence of God. lol

[@brucewayne7875]

@@cnault3244 well yeah that is pretty clear as well

[@paulgemme6056]

@@brucewayne7875 If one seeks the truth, they will find it. Adams disobedience made many sinners and Christ's obedience makes many righteous. By Grace through we are saved is it not of ourselves, it is the gift of God to all who believe (have Faith). Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

[@kyliechen5263]

For god so loved the world that he sent billions of unbelieving people to hell.

[@janraborn4530]

True Faith = oxymoron

[@missrose397]

Guys, I don't want to talk about what I believe, I just want to call in and tell you how other people are wrong.

[@allykaman9340]

I just adore the comedic satisfaction of *door opens* - (Matt Dillahunty offscreen) "Ray Comfort." - *door closes*

[@tommystyx]

Their sound technician may be able to make Richard sound good, too bad they can't make him sound smart.

[@carnivorehitman]

L O L

[@pollypockets508]

I'm not smart. I dropped my phone and it cracked a lot.

[@tommystyx]

@@carlose5751 The truth is often mean.

[@moonbeam361]

The point the caller was trying to make was very simple but the hosts muddled it and it got lost. The point was that NT contains a formula to objectively demonstrate god, by the formula of how to do miracles as stated and emphasised repeatedly by Jesus. So Christians can objectively, in the real world, and right now, prove god's existence by doing healing miracles consistently the way Jesus did. Just like a physics textbook makes claims, but also shows you how to prove that objectively by doing directed experiments in real life (so then the assertions are proven to be an actual fact). So christians who claim they have faith, should be doing healing miracles or working towards being able to do that, at which point they can meet the talkheathen hosts and demonstrate that via any setup the hosts create to ensure there is no fraud. And obviously, if you can do miracles, that must be true faith, as opposed to the book/bible faith that most christians rely on where they use the bible to justify itself internally - which is illogical. The caller shows that there is a way, according to the NT, for an external demonstration of what the NT asserts.

[@paulgemme6056]

@@moonbeam361 John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

[@russellh9894]

I recommend watching at x1.5 speed

[@petyrkowalski9887]

God formula: G = PR (parents religion) + HB (holy book) x social pressure x GQ (gullibility quotient) / education

[@TheTruthKiwi]

So, this guy is a theist. He's telling Eric and Dave to ask the Christian callers if they can perform miracles and if they can't then they are not true believers and yet he can't perform miracles himself. I am confused.

[@Raycu2]

No it seems you got it. The logic is all there if you turn your brain off.

[@TheTruthKiwi]

@@Raycu2 I think even then one would be struggling to comprehend that nonsense

[@TheTruthKiwi]

@The Skeptic Philosopher haha nice.

[@ShadowPoet]

Makes more sense if you sniff some glue or punch yourself really hard... like actually TRY hard...

[@derekmizer6293]

@@Raycu2 hahahahha

[@davejohn3600]

I have a formula...up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A.

[@loki6626]

Konami can give you great power.

[@annk.8750]

And you can call square dances too...

[@p.bamygdala2139]

30 lives in Contra!

[@tedgrant2]

My mother was dying and we all got together and prayed. The next day she was peeling potatoes ! She is now completely well and recently celebrated her 135th birthday. I am convinced she will never die. I am 105 this week.

[@victorhayden7053]

Happy Birthday !

[@tedgrant2]

@@victorhayden7053 Thanks. I am now 107 and my mother is 137 and still peeling those potatoes ! See, all you need is a little faith; very little as a matter of fact and some pixie dust. As Jesus once told his disciples, "nothing shall be impossible unto you !" (Matthew 17:20)

[@Allegedly_Monkey]

I'm gonna call bullshit on this nonsense. Prayer has never once been demonstrated to work. And if it did, why isn't your family or anybody else going to hospitals and using your superpowers to heal kids with terminal illnesses? That's extremely selfish of you to use your superpowers to let your mother live longer but not to help those truly in need, is it not? Also, the oldest verified person to ever live died at 122 years old, so why are you not calling the guiness book of world records if your mother is 137 years old? My guess, it's because you are lying out your ass and severely exaggerating. I thought lying is a sin, don't you fear burning in hell for this? Or is it ok to lie as long as you're lying for jesus?

[@tedgrant2]

@@Allegedly_Monkey I prayed that you would make that comment in order to test my faith. I also prayed that you would feel guilty and delete the comment immediately. Both these prayers worked, increasing my faith by 13%

[@Allegedly_Monkey]

@@tedgrant2 oh, you prayed for me, specifically, to make that comment did you? Lies. I also don't feel any guilt whatsoever and I didn't delete the comment. So again, lies. And why 13% exactly? Theist trolls like you disgust me. Lying for jeses is still lying, and lying is a sin according to your book. So I guess I'll see ya in hell with me soon enough right?

[@victorhayden7053]

I love these Atheist/Theist call in shows. Most of the Theist callers are so divorced from reality, it's very entertaining. It's like the modern day equivalent of going to see 'freaks' at the Circus.

[@namewithheld7835]

*Caller:* _"Miracles are the only way to find the true religion"_ *-"Ok, give us the miracles your church does"* *Caller:* _"Christians have it wrong.. bla-di-blas are also wrong... "_

[@alanrosenthal6323]

Simple test. Ask Richard to pray for everybody with cancer to be cured now. If it works then his formula must work. If it doesn't then tell him to go away

[@ShadowPoet]

You see... regular old unfalsifiable faith isn't enough these days, you have to have TRUE... faith.... that's the "formula".... who knew after millennia of war and strife and genocides.. we have the answer! It was being held by a muslim in Malaysia this whole time who apparently has direct access to the one and only "TRUE" faith because words and secret personal knowledge! /barf

[@anythingthen9269]

Finally Malaysian listener..yeeaahhhh.....

[@billyquaide1902]

Faith is a wild card to hide a bunch of lies under.

[@alexazcd]

Huge parts of Richard‘s argument sound more plausible to me when I assume he‘s a Muslim. Then his argument goes more like: If no Christian can do miracles then Christianity is not true. (That would also explain why he thinks he doesn‘t need to explain Christian „faith“.) Maybe he had a part two in mind that would instead „prove“ Islam 🤷‍♂️ and Eric an Dave just never let him finish his point.

[@ministryofarguments3525]

They gave him the further opportunity to call back when he has formulated in his mind the process for him to be able to prove God is true faith. In all likelihood that will be an impossible task for him, but no doubt he will return to talk about his feelings and still not have what he claims. None of them do because god or gods are not factual and don't exist in reality.

[@jeffc5974]

At 19:51 he admits he's not Christian.

[@fatalgravity]

Commandments from the book of Eric, 13: always retain a hairbrush on thy person.

[@hegyak]

"God will get something done." Appeal to Faith fallacy by caller. And those "Miracles" are found to be fake/false. Leading to the Unfalsifiable claim fallacy.

[@hegyak]

@Truth Matters I await your non-reply.

[@AC-gb7do]

Wow, Gluteus lies again. I’m shocked! Appeal to Faith - This is an abandonment of reason in an argument and a call to faith, usually when reason clearly leads to disproving the conclusion of an argument. It is the assertion that one must have (the right kind of) faith in order to understand the argument. Unfalsifiable claim - Confidently asserting that a theory or hypothesis is true or false even though the theory or hypothesis cannot possibly be contradicted by an observation or the outcome of any physical experiment, usually without strong evidence or good reasons. Making unfalsifiable claims is a way to leave the realm of rational discourse, since unfalsifiable claims are often faith-based, and not founded on evidence and reason.

[@hegyak]

@@AC-gb7do I do appreciate hearing from other Atheists, or at least people who understand Logical fallacies around here. I said it that way, because you may be a Theist. I don't want to misrepresent you and your beliefs (If you have any in a Supernatural being or entity or entities), if you are willing to talk about and acknowledge logical fallacies. It means I, personally, am not alone with my desire and love for logical debate and discussion.

[@sycofreake1]

@@hegyak AC is an athiest, one of the best around😁

[@hegyak]

@@sycofreake1 I figured as much. Just wanted to be respectful, just in case.

[@steevrawjers]

Oh good another formula this will be fun

[@tedgrant2]

"What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them and ye shall have them." said Jesus (Mark 11:24), but the snag is I don't believe that I will receive ice cream when I pray.

[@cy-one]

And that verse only makes sense if no one on this planet has ever prayed for world peace or a solution for hunger or environmental pollution.

[@tedgrant2]

@@cy-one Apparently God, who knows what you need before you ask, listens to prayers. Imagine how boring that must be for a guy who has a planet sized brain ! God, supposedly, has/is an infinite invisible brain/mind. (Matthew 6:8)

[@cy-one]

@@tedgrant2 Well, first of all that'd mean that a planet sized brain would be infinitely smaller than God's, so _that_ was one hell of an understatement :D Second of all... Well, either he listens to prayers, which means no one ever prayed for world peace, a solution to hunger or environmental pollution oooor he doesn't listen to prayers :D IMHO, "listening to prayers" is even more fun once you introduce "God's plan" :D

[@tedgrant2]

@@cy-one But God is timeless, so he has no future. If he has no future, his plan is futile.

[@lewisner]

As so often, starts off promising but goes into an increasing downward spiral.

[@alangifford5866]

Mostly due to the hosts not following what Richard was trying to say. He was talking about testing Christians the whole time.

[@seanjones2456]

Richard did a great job of proving god! fart sound

[@jarrod752]

I have a formula that proves God. It doesn't exist in reality, but it's a formula none the less...

[@JaySantanaofficial]

Engineer gang !

[@topcat2069]

When people make up the answers, the answer sound completely reasonable to them. The problem is that there is no evidence.

[@cmack17]

4 things in 30 seconds. Not even close.

[@flashbodie1]

He ment, biblical seconds.

[@Jundarippa]

The Vishnu of volume.

[@martenw757]

Love the cake reference Takes me back to Macarthur park 😁😉

[@maloc1824]

Had Jesus made it so this fig tree were immortal and for it to always bear fruit that would have been the best proof for a God (or at least for him) and then I would have a belief in their god.

[@loki6626]

Hypothetically, if this eternal fig tree actually existed, all that it would prove is that it exists. The fact that it had been written about in some old book would only prove that the authors of the book thought it was a miracle.

[@plowenson]

He believes in God but can't prove God. He calls in with proof of God? Which God if not your own??

[@BeefT-Sq]

" I do not take cognizance of anything I cannot check. " -Ayn Rand-

[@moonbeam361]

The point the caller was trying to make was very simple but the hosts muddled it and it got lost. The point was that NT contains a formula to objectively demonstrate god, by the formula of how to do miracles as stated and emphasised repeatedly by Jesus. So Christians can objectively, in the real world, and right now, prove god's existence by doing healing miracles consistently the way Jesus did. Just like a physics textbook makes claims, but also shows you how to prove that objectively by doing directed experiments in real life (so then the assertions are proven to be an actual fact). So christians who claim they have faith, should be doing healing miracles or working towards being able to do that, at which point they can meet the talkheathen hosts and demonstrate that via any setup the hosts create to ensure there is no fraud. And obviously, if you can do miracles, that must be true faith, as opposed to the book/bible faith that most christians rely on where they use the bible to justify itself internally - which is illogical. The caller shows that there is a way, according to the NT, for an external demonstration of what the NT asserts.

[@loki6626]

Two problems. Firstly, no 'miracle' has ever been demonstrated. Intercessory prayer has been tested and shown not to work. Secondly, even if someone could demonstrate miracles that could not be explained by natural laws, that would not prove existence of god. At best it would prove the existence of something supernatural, which might move the debate on.

[@moonbeam361]

Hi Loki, this is a problem for Christians, not us, to solve. If i give a book on physics to a physicist, he will construct experiments mentioned in there on the table infront of me and they will validate what's in the textbook. Similarly, if we give the bible to a christian, he should be able to do a miracle, or if he can't, he should be telling you that he's working on getting to that point. And as to your second point, if it does prove the existence of the supernatural, indeed it would REALLLY move the debate on. At that point, you ask that successful miracle doer to demonstrate god to you objectively. After all, many disbelievers and unbelievers followed jesus and saw him doing his miracles. So belief is not necessary to observe objective facts.

[@loki6626]

@@moonbeam361 Well said. I agree that belief isn't necessary to observe objective facts. Many of the hypotheses of theoretical physics have been unbelievable but then shown to be true. Especially at the atomic and sub atomic level. An interesting proposition was made by Lawrence Krauss. If the human race had to start all over again, with none of the knowledge we have now, we would probably invent new religions, but the scientific truths would be rediscovered and be exactly the same.

[@moonbeam361]

@@loki6626 That's a perfect analogy. Now, if you look at mark 11:23-25, jesus talks about how to receive miracles from god on demand, and not just certain miracles but ANY miracle. Elsewhere he frequent exhorts his disciples to have faith, do miracles, not be surprised that miracles are possible, etc. I have frankly been surprised over the years that card carrying christians just gloss over these very explicit assertions by jesus to ordinary clowns following him. Richard in the call above must be referencing this in his call. That to me is probably proof that he's not a christian because, well, he sees what's actually written there in the bible :)

[@Diviance]

I might argue that it wouldn't even necessarily prove the supernatural. It would really just show us that there is something that we do not yet understand. As for what that something is... well, that would require much research, testing and evidence before coming to a conclusion. Even at best, if we could test it as such, it wouldn't prove the supernatural at any point. Since that really isn't how our methodologies work. Proving it would require a greater amount of certainty than any methodology we have put together can manage.

[@roybarrows9733]

Richard: I have a formula to prove God is true. Also Richard later: I can't prove god is real.

[@constructivecritique5191]

Constant interrupts by the heathen, think he was trying to say that miracles can prove God's existence. This formula is totally wrong. Belief is a choice, not a rrasoning. Faith is the amount you trust in your beliefs. Beliefs are constantly tested and develop towards reliability. We are all tested on what we believe.

[@tedgrant2]

The hosts don't seem to understand the caller's point of view. He is saying that Christians should be able to do miracles if they are correct. (because the Bible tells us so), but we know they can't do miracles, so they are not correct. And that also means the Bible is not correct.

[@nicholasswartz7819]

Ravioli Ravioli give me the formioli.

[@brucemadge8147]

What the hell is Richard talking about?

[@ladyaj7784]

This is a misunderstanding! I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain Richard isn't a theist... or at the very least not a Christian. His formula isn't for him to prove a god. It's a way to challenge Christians to try to prove a god.

[@hannahalice1000]

and the other homework is to produce a formula that doesn't rely on faith

[@ceciliam.8493]

Eric 😍😍

[@JohnSpike8888]

I had faith. But then I switched to true faith. Since then my argument are 60% more fallacious and 80% more ridiculous. And my comment became 95% more lame.

[@moonbeam361]

There is faith and there is not. That is the mistake the caller Richard made - there is no such thing as true faith. There is book/theology knowledge and there is faith in god.

[@grimmspectrum1547]

Faith is faith, you can have levels of confidence in your faith but it's still faith. Which is why when some callers say that Matt and others aren't true believers because they didn't have true faith those people are idiots

[@flashbodie1]

He ment, 30 biblical seconds.

[@dongorrie1828]

flashbodie1 maybe he meant meant.

[@petersmafield8722]

What about the New stone tablets with different commandments Supposed to have been written by God after the 1st set was broken? The New Stone Tablets 1The Lord said to Moses, “Chisel out two stone tablets like the first ones, and I will write on them the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke. 2 Be ready in the morning, and then come up on Mount Sinai. Present yourself to me there on top of the mountain. 3 No one is to come with you or be seen anywhere on the mountain; not even the flocks and herds may graze in front of the mountain.” 4 So Moses chiseled out two stone tablets like the first ones and went up Mount Sinai early in the morning, as the Lord had commanded him; and he carried the two stone tablets in his hands. 5 Then the Lord came down in the cloud and stood there with him and proclaimed his name, the Lord. 6 And he passed in front of Moses, proclaiming, “The Lord, the Lord, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, 7 maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation.” 8 Moses bowed to the ground at once and worshiped. 9 “Lord,” he said, “if I have found favor in your eyes, then let the Lord go with us. Although this is a stiff-necked people, forgive our wickedness and our sin, and take us as your inheritance.” 10 Then the Lord said: “I am making a covenant with you. Before all your people I will do wonders never before done in any nation in all the world. The people you live among will see how awesome is the work that I, the Lord, will do for you. 11 Obey what I command you today. I will drive out before you the Amorites, Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites. 12 Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land where you are going, or they will be a snare among you. 13 Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and cut down their Asherah poles.[a] 14 Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God. 15 “Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land; for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to them, they will invite you and you will eat their sacrifices. 16 And when you choose some of their daughters as wives for your sons and those daughters prostitute themselves to their gods, they will lead your sons to do the same. 17 “Do not make any idols. 18 “Celebrate the Festival of Unleavened Bread. For seven days eat bread made without yeast, as I commanded you. Do this at the appointed time in the month of Aviv, for in that month you came out of Egypt. 19 “The first offspring of every womb belongs to me, including all the firstborn males of your livestock, whether from herd or flock. 20 Redeem the firstborn donkey with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, break its neck. Redeem all your firstborn sons. “No one is to appear before me empty-handed. 21 “Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest; even during the plowing season and harvest you must rest. 22 “Celebrate the Festival of Weeks with the firstfruits of the wheat harvest, and the Festival of Ingathering at the turn of the year.[b] 23 Three times a year all your men are to appear before the Sovereign Lord, the God of Israel. 24 I will drive out nations before you and enlarge your territory, and no one will covet your land when you go up three times each year to appear before the Lord your God. 25 “Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice to me along with anything containing yeast, and do not let any of the sacrifice from the Passover Festival remain until morning. 26 “Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the Lord your God. “Do not cook a young goat in its mother’s milk.” 27 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” 28 Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant-the Ten Commandments.

[@markhamze154]

He was wrong. Therefor i'm right! Perfect proof!

[@bobwilson3980]

He is saying that where is the Bible’s formula.

[@petereuk52]

Am I the only one who has realised that the caller is an atheist? I think he is saying to theists that if god is real you should be able to perform a miracle. Since they can't he is saying that god is not real.

[@JohnMorris-ge6hq]

He has a formula: ONE PART BULLSHIT TWO PARTS CHRISTIAN GULLIBILITY

[@tonydarcy1606]

Did I get Richard's point correctly ? Christians can't / don't perform miracles, as claimed in the Bible, therefore Allah is the only true God ? Hmm some formula .

[@lilypad4384]

Not unless you failed in English in high school.

[@lforlight]

In summary, he has no formula. He's trying to disprove Christianity with a statement that doesn't disprove anything. He's citing "if X then Y", implying that "if not-X then not-Y", which is not correct.

[@jwhipple5567]

This was kind of painful to listen to. The entire video they talk to him like he's a Christian when he's calling in with an argument against Christianity. I get that the call screener led them astray but they showed a profound lack of listening skills. They eventually figure it out and chastise the caller(!?), but I for one would've liked them to just give him 6 consecutive uninterrupted sentences, thank him, and let him go. Maybe they can just have a variety of theists call in to make their case because they host a show, but those of us who watch this video don't host atheists call-in shows and often find ourselves in discussions with a wide variety of theists. We enjoy hearing arguments that others have used successfully. It's probably 90% of why we watch this show in the first place and they stepped all over it. All in all it was just a sitcom-esque conversation based on a misunderstanding right up til they gave him a self-righteous and condescending lecture and still didn't let him finish his very simple thought. So, if you're like me and you would've liked to hear him finish, this is what I gathered he was trying to say: If a Christian is using the Bible to justify their faith and then using their faith to justify the Bible (as they tend to do), they will inevitably make the claim to having a strong faith that leads them to an understanding that you aren't capable of because you don't. When they say that, point out that Christ supposedly said in their Bible that all people of faith should be performing the same kind of miracles he did, with nothing more than faith. Then tell them that you'll agree that faith is in fact a verifiable and trustworthy path to truth when they perform miracles with it as Jesus told them to. My two cent addition: Then sit back smugly while they are either forced to admit that the Bible is wrong or that they would like to but they just don't have strong enough faith. When they admit to having insufficient faith, ask them then for an example of someone that does have sufficient faith. If they can't then it might lead to a conversation about who Jesus was speaking to if no human has ever been capable of that kind of faith (or is at least so rare as to be a statistical anomaly), but sometimes they will point to a faith healer preacher or the mormon prophet or some other leader they follow. Then, just for fun, verify with them the many verses in the Bible that promise these powers on command with the power of faith, and ask if they agree that whoever they chose definitely has strong enough faith to perform miracles. Inevitably they will start to feel relief at this stronger footing and double down on their confidence in whichever cult leader they adore. Then tell them how excited you are to learn this and that you'll give the local veterans hospital a call and fill their next faith healing sermon or priesthood blessing with a few hundred soldiers who are missing legs and that you'll meet them there to graciously admit your error and join their church on the spot when the legs start growing back. I can't even predict which sort of mental gymnastics they'll perform to try to maintain their faith and demonstrate their superior understanding, but I can promise you it will be interesting to watch.

[@moonbeam361]

Well J Whipple finally a thoroughly intelligent listener as opposed to the clowns who posted comments earlier. I daresay if Richard was allowed his six uninterrupted sentences, he would have said much the same as you. Anyway, I am of the view that if the churches spent 90% of their Sunday sermons in a local hospital etc attempting to heal people, out of the millions who will do this every week, someone will get it right consistently. Even if she is a statistical anomaly, she would be able to teach others exactly what is missing and fix that for everyone, thus ultimately leading to many people doing visible miracles. That would be a game changer. Anyway I don't think the preachers of the world are going to say " we're going to go heal some folks because we're expcted to do so if we truly have faith, so let's. "

[@alangifford5866]

I totally agree with your first three sentences.

[@treemu]

I feel like you explained your point poorly in that Richard didn't seem to understand how his definition of faith was bad. If he calls back he will give the same definition because he wasn't comprehensively told how he failed and what makes a sound definition. This is the error Jamie constantly makes while trying to have a discussion. He gives them room to talk over him and miss his points so he has to state them again. It's like he's trying to reason with an unruly child without knowing how to get through. Don't let people talk over you, use the mute button. Otherwise you risk stagnating the conversation and talking past each other.

[@albertcombrink3717]

ugh what nonsense

[@ylounis]

I think "Richard" who is a muslim from Malaysia, thinks he is calling a christian show. Used all his time to criticize the bible and the different callers, yet made no point for his own (possibly thinking islam would "win" by default if christianity is wrong? 🤔) I was hoping the hosts would stop him from talking about other callers and pressure him harder to make a point. Talking to him was a waste of time

[@moonbeam361]

That's a clear non-bigoted view.

[@moonbeam361]

And the quran does not contain any formulas for doing miracles consistently. That shows that the NT, which has that forumula, is superior.

[@ricardovonkrypton8908]

It's exactly the technique ID proponents use to 'demonstrate Intelligent Design' by criticising the Theory of Evolution instead of providing any evidence.

[@alexanderdeclercq982]

10 commandments lol. What about the other 603 commandments. Brainwashing is strong with this one.

[@shanehisle1294]

Telling someone they're about to commit fallacies before they even start is a jackass move.

[@peterhudson5748]

That guy sounds like deepok chopra

[@kevinchong5424]

Thanks for wasting everyone’s time, Richard

[@davidantell2855]

Why not 11 commandments? easy peasy

[@brendastark9544]

Quoting the koran is the same as quoting the bible, they are both full of claims, bad advice and shown to be wrong.

[@AGrayPhantom]

I actually kinda agree with Richard. If bonafide, verifiable miracles (walking on water, or regrowing limbs) were being performed by a specific group of people (like Christians), that would be very convincing to me.

[@Zripas]

Why? You still had no idea why they can perform those miracles... So even if specific group of people from specific sect of religion started to fly around and heal people with a hand touch, that would not prove anything related to a god or their religion. There is no connection between magic and god unless you can demonstrate that there is.

[@ricardovonkrypton8908]

It would at least be something. It wouldn't be evidence of god but it would be an actual demonstration of something.

[@sternwheeler]

I’m still hung up on the claim that CNN doesn’t lie. What was the rest of this about again?

[@maloc1824]

I think it was in comparison to Fox News. That being said what are some of CNN's lies.

[@stephen5665]

@@maloc1824 all media are liars and manipulators. CNN or FOX. Americans are brainwashed by the media. And has a result, the country is divided and torn.

[@sternwheeler]

@@maloc1824, mostly I'm saying that any news outlet that has advertisers and the FCC to report to (to some degree) cannot be assumed the be telling the truth. But specifically, (and yes, I know this is a bit dated) CNN ran a story depicting automatic weapons while representing them as weapons banned during the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban. One could assume it was ignorance as no one would expect media types to be terribly knowledgeable about guns, but a representative from CNN doubled-down on the story when approached by Tom Gresham (host of nationally syndicated "Gun Talk" about retracting it for falsehoods.

[@kieronbrowne7881]

I wonder how many nutters there actually are on this planet?

[@Zripas]

There are ~2% from entire population who thinks that earth is flat... So allot... We are talking about millions here...

[@MrKit9]

Everyone but you and me Buddy.

[@wetyewruyrtsutrdhjfg]

About one quarter, that accounts for the total number of guys with hands and have hit puberty.

[@adamcroft80]

If god is as all knowledgeable and all powerful that theists claim he is why does he need a book?

[@bennylane9701]

Richard?? Nice try, Deepak.

[@PBAmygdala2021]

There is about as much confusion and interpretation of this caller's beliefs and intentions in the comments, as there is about the Bible.

[@slimjim227]

Jesus is supposed to have performed 38 miracles during his ministry on earth, yet when you read the gospels only one of those miracles is common to all four gospels, why? It’s the miracle of the loaves and fish, and even though the four gospels agree that the event happened, they don’t agree on the number of people who were fed! Another nail in the coffin of Christianity?

[@AntitheistHuman]

And again it's proven believing in god dependant in the human imagination, nice

[@tedgrant2]

Imagine watching a film that you know in every detail. That would be boring and a waste of time, right ? That's what it's like if you are omniscient. No wonder he's a bit ratty with his kids !

[@williamgeorgefraser]

Surely, if a human being can create a miracle, it cannot be a miracle. A miracle is something which is outwith human power and can only be created by someone or something with non-human powers. Miracles, in the sense that the term is used by the Catholic church, are simply occurrences which are used as an excuse to extend supernatural powers to dead people that the church wants to beatify. It's all just a scam to tell their followers that they need to believe more to achieve greatness.

[@kieronbrowne7881]

Richard doesn’t half talk shite.

[@exiled_londoner]

This is utterly ridiculous. The caller from Malaysia claims that he has a Formula' to prove the existence of his god, but using this supposedly foolproof method, which will convince all non-believers of the deity's existence, is contingent on them being able to display absolute and 'true' faith in the existence of said deity. It's not only ridiculous, it's infantile, oxymoronic, and completely circular. This caller speaks in a reasonable tone of voice and sounds superficially rational, but the actual content of his so-called 'Formula' is not just fallacious, it's lunacy, and if he cannot see this then there is something wrong with him.

[@lilypad4384]

You are completely wrong. Read J Whipple's reply below to see what you missed.

[@exiled_londoner]

@@lilypad4384 - I agree that Mr Whipple makes an interesting point but I'm not sure that he's right about the direction this caller was coming from. I didn't take it that way.

[@lilypad4384]

You didn't take it that way? You didn't take it that way? What are you talking about? You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. You got your facts of what the caller was saying completely wrong. Listen to the call without being distracted by something else.

[@exiled_londoner]

@@lilypad4384 - OK, I've listened to the segment of the video again and it's possible that Ms. Pad (Lily is a female name where I come from) is correct and that Richard from Malaysia was indeed making a point about the contradiction in Christian theology, as she claims. I agree that he was interrupted before he had finished and may have been misunderstood by the hosts, and by me. If this is the case then I modify my criticism of him accordingly. However, if he was indeed highlighting a contradiction then I am still unclear what his own position is and I believe he did describe it as a "Formula to prove the existence of God* (his exact words; hence the quotation marks), which is also inconsistent with Ms. Pad's take on him. If Ms Pad is correct then a more accurate description would have been 'a Formula to disprove the god of Christian theology'.

[@lilypad4384]

Richard was pointing out that the bible contains a formula to objectively demonstrate the existence of god, by doing miracles in accordance with the formula that god gave in the bible. Since it is the christians who assert their Christian god and their bible, the onus is on them to actualise this formula in reality and demonstrate it to the unbelievers. Since Richard states that he believes in god but is not a Christian, he ia not going to cast this as a formula to disprove the existence of God. Nor does it matter. The formula is there, and Christians should use it to demonstrate god. Not doing so is on them entirely.

[@dexterdexter8493]

Richard: It is wrong for christians to prove god using the bible ... Next minute quotes the bible Facepalm!!!!!

[@moonbeam361]

Richard was talking about internal references within the bible to other internal references within the bible. Mark 11:23-25 in a bible reference to an EXTERNAL physical demonstration. Surprising that educated people can't distinguish straightforward references.

[@kowoh]

Richard was a good caller I think

[@wwlib5390]

God loves you so much that He, Himself, came to bear the penalty for you so that if you believe on Him, you will not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16 para)

[@Fluffykeith]

So he loves us so much that he came to sacrifice himself to himself to create a loophole for rules that he made in the first....and that loophole has absolutely sod all to do with being a decent human being. But...he didn't REALLY bear the penalty, did he? Doesn't the Evil Book Of Evil say that the wages of sin are death and the punishment for sin is eternal damnation? Well....Jesus is described as going back to heaven to be at his fathers right hand....not spending eternity in Hell....So the story couldn't even get that right.

[@wwlib5390]

​@@Fluffykeith What an interesting and original question. Simplified: The law was given so we are not ‘in the dark’ about what God considers right and wrong - essentially it’s summed up into Love God with all your heart, mind, strength and soul, and love others; you rightly state that the wages for sin is death. No one can ever fulfill the whole law their entire lives; at some point we sin and are therefore ‘sinners’ - God’s second reason for giving the law is so that it would be God alone who could declare a person righteous - lest any man boast of how ‘great’ or ‘good’ they are in keeping the law - the way you expressed it is perfect: it ‘has absolutely sod all to do with being decent’. You can do nothing -because God does it all for you. It is God’s love, mercy and grace poured out upon you that enables you to stand, righteous and holy, before Him. Jesus, being God, cannot carry sin within Him - therefore He is not a sinner - He bore the sins of the world, meaning the sins were put upon Him (like a cloak). His death and blood was the atoning sacrifice that removed those sins from WITHIN us. The sins Jesus bore UPON Himself went to the grave and were left there. His resurrection is our promise that we, too, will be resurrected. The scripture was completely fulfilled in exactly the right way. It’s obvious you have ‘read’ John 3:16; but have you understood that in it is revealed how much God loves you, what the desire of His heart is for you and what His promise is to you? Maybe my comment will encourage you to take another look - because it is an invitation specifically for you personally. Have a nice night.

[@Fluffykeith]

@@wwlib5390 I didn't actually ask a question. I made a point. But it's interesting that you hate humanity so much that you think we cannot do anything decent or good by ourselves. That's a pretty disgusting take on it, and not really what I was getting at anyway. Either way, the doctrine is vile.

[@GuitarDog_atx]

@@wwlib5390 If you read the bible objectively, you wouldn't say your god had love, mercy and grace. Unless you want to change the definitions of those words just like you have to for morality and compassion.

[@wwlib5390]

​@@GuitarDog_atx And what would you change those five words too? I'm not understanding your comment.

[@tonyaratlaff7990]

The best formula to prove God is to prove the insanity of a non intelligent occurrence AKA what atheist believe. I now change my belief system. I don't believe the universe is the result of a non intelligent occurrence. So the burden of proof is on anybody who believes that's true. And if they don't reach my burden of proof God is true. I'm only using the logic of Atheism in reverse.

[@tonyaratlaff7990]

@Jim Merrilees you're a typical indoctrinated atheist cow with mad atheist disease. Words have meanings not feelings little boy. So get out of your Echo chamber and face the real world. If the meaning of atheist doesn't apply to you then don't call yourself an atheist. It's that simple, I didn't name you an atheist you named yourself an atheist. Were atheist Informer atheistic China or North Korea today able and willing to believe in God? Of course not, your cattle and you don't know what you're talkin about. If you can't supply evidence for a non intelligent occurrence which no atheist including your self has yet to do, then what is your disbelief in intelligent intent- AKA God based in, it's based in indoctrination. Agnostic is specifically defined as not having a disbelief hence agnostic are not cattle such as yourself. it still amounts to the same thing meaning your both immoral but the agnostic would be the Herd owner and you would be the mad cow with the disease. You're so inverted you would chop your own son's penis off like most atheist leftist liberals in the belief he would become a girl. In former communistic atheist China they would drown their child if it was born a girl. Most of you I hate Christianity because you're some kind of sexual deviant. Your backwards your a traitor to your own culture and you don't belong in Western culture. have the courage of your convictions move out of a majority Christian country and go live in North Korea with the rest of the atheist. You need to bribe and import the third world to get support for your disgusting movement, your not civilized your angry because of the people don't want to live the backward Lifestyles you choose. your a bunch of backward thinking inverted cattle who promote aborting your own babies. you scream in Anger if a baby can't have his head pulled off from his neck and his limbs ripped off every majority atheist country has to ban religion. And as soon as that ban is lifted the East Germans come pouring into West Germany and the Chinese become Christian. Now go crawl in your safe space and cry your feminine Tears like a real leftist liberal atheist man does but try not to get it all over your brand new M u r s e.

[@ricardovonkrypton8908]

@@tonyaratlaff7990 "...a non intelligent occurrence..." Like any conversation with you Tonya... :)

[@Zripas]

Tonya Ratlaff "The best formula to prove God is to prove the insanity of a non intelligent occurrence AKA what atheist believe" Damn... Where do i even start... You do know that disproving X will not prove Y when you have more then 2 options? How did you ruled out aliens? What about matrix? Those 2 options doesn't include your god, but they are not "non intelligent" ones. So even if you some how managed to disprove "non intelligent occurrence" that would not prove your god, not a tiny bit. "I now change my belief system" Atheism is not a belief system, so you failed on that one too. "So the burden of proof is on anybody who believes that's true" ok, and we don't care. its nice attempt to shift burden of proof, but it will not fly. "And if they don't reach my burden of proof God is true" What about magical unicorns farting out universes? Can you disprove them? No? So they are real? Right? using your logic (lack of it) to point out absurdity in your argument. "I'm only using the logic of Atheism in reverse." Cha... Do have no idea what atheism is or what logic is. Nice try.

[@tonyaratlaff7990]

@@Zripas let me put it in terms you might understand. If you're saying you don't believe the ball went a hundred miles per hour or over. You're saying you believe it went under a hundred miles per hour Atheism isn't a plea from ignorance it has a disbelief. So if you're saying you don't believe in God intelligent intent it's not equivalent to saying you know how the universe came into existence. You're saying you believe it came into existence because of a non intelligent occurrence. Again atheism isn't a p l e a from ignorance it has a position.

[@Zripas]

Tonya Ratlaff "You're saying you believe it went under a hundred miles per hour" Wrong. No wonder you have no idea what atheism is... Lets use basic example here. I have jar of marbles, there are odd or even number of them in it. Which is it? Odd or even? Choose. What your answer will be? You should realize where you messed up when you try to answer this simple question. "So if you're saying you don't believe in God intelligent intent it's not equivalent to saying you know how the universe came into existence" Correct, this is why i never said that i know how the universe came into existence or that universe even came into existence or maybe it existed for eternity. If time begin at big bang, then universe existed for eternity even if it has starting point. I know you will not understand this, but others will. "You're saying you believe it came into existence because of a non intelligent occurrence" Never said this. So nice straw man argument. "Again atheism isn't a p l e a from ignorance it has a position." Who said that atheism is appeal from ignorance? Atheism is a rejection of your claim that there is a god, nothing more. And as you failed to prove that there is a god or that he is even possible to be real, we can simply dismiss your claim as invalid and move on without any need to present evidence. This is how reality works, so welcome to reality.

[@ohiobuckeye5828]

There go atheists proving what the Bible says about them being true.

[@n1ghtmar3mach1n3]

That's because the bible is a control mechanism written to keep sheep like you in line. Seems the authors covered their asses pretty good, though. They knew there would be people too smart to buy into the bullshit and others who would swallow it whole and cling to it no matter how ridiculous. You're the latter. That's not a good thing, btw.