The Future of Guitar Rigs: Computer-Based Live Performance Setup

[@petterrong1590]

This. Finally someone who uses higher sample rates with good reasoning and explanation instead of just "it sounds better". Both of your use cases are prime examples for this

[@ThomasBrunkard]

There's actually a bump in the latency too. I doubt we'll see a floor multifx running that high in this decade.

[@petterrong1590]

@ThomasBrunkard True, but so would buffer size, so unless you're already running the lowest buffer size possible, it doesn't make sense to change sample rates if that was the only concern

[@urklvt]

I’ve been using a Focusrite 2i2 with my MacBook Air for the 192khz capability. I got a Line 6 FBV3 for midi control so I would have the same layout as a Helix LT. I’ve been playing Helix Native through MainStage but the midi configuration was a complete pain. I did get it configured to do a row of snapshots and a row of effect on/off buttons, but to hear you mention getting midi control straight to the plugin got my attention. I would love to know how you do that. I mainly play at church so I’m trying out an all in one interface/controller/di from xsonic soon.

[@ThomasBrunkard]

The solution with Mainstage is a bit bizarre. You set up a Instrument track but set Helix Native as an input. You can select which interface input it goes to in the editing pane for the plugin. In this instance midi gets passed directly to the plugin. I'm looking at Gig Performer now per recommendations from commenters and it's a very different approach but makes more sense for this type of work.

[@ChrisM541]

I thought I was a tech savvy guitarist, but you've taken this to uber levels. Huge respects for not only learning all this but fully understanding everything. Not only that, but you're doing live gigs not with real valve amps, not with Kemper/Axe/etc, but you've gone -to plaid- 'full software' with Amplitube on a Mac...and, make it all sound most excellent. I take my hat off, sir. Bizarrely/coincidentally, I've recently purchased Amplitube 5 and Tonex so I'll be plying this video back a lot of times and checking out what other goodies you have. Subbed.

[@ThomasBrunkard]

Thanks Chris! I think the next one is going to be about Quad Cortex but there's always something to talk about with this stuff. Each of the topics I touched probably could have been a film in and of itself but that might have been sadistic on viewers! Let me know if I can help you on your adventures. The thing to really watch out with this is the midi control piece.

[@Superman-yr5jv]

Man i love this channel im only a basic guitar player in a pub band but have gotten loadsa tips from you about getting that great guitar sound etc . Thanks .

[@ThomasBrunkard]

I'm delighted to read that! Guitar gear is dangerous. We can end up obsessing about it when we should be making music. I spend a lot of time explaining my rationale but really I'm trying to make tools available for people to stop worrying about equipment and actually just get out there and break some hearts or something!

[@Superman-yr5jv]

Yeah thanks again man it's because of you I bring my pa an iPad with tonex and I'm sounding like all the greats 👏🏻

[@ThomasBrunkard]

@@Superman-yr5jv Result!

[@grishukov_t]

It’s an interesting solution . Don’t often find such a detailed analysis of real use. Thank you for sharing. Amplifiers on the stage even dummy, it seems that they will disappear soon. I will miss them.

[@ThomasBrunkard]

I'm not a fan of silent stages so I'm quite loud on stage so the differences are weight, flexibility and speed of set up. The experience of moving air is still there.

[@jaspersquire5931]

This is a fascinating video! Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience! I've been asking myself all these questions about converting to a computer based setup - you’ve answered nearly all of them!

[@ThomasBrunkard]

If there's anything else you want to hear me wax lyrical about at length, just let me know!

[@NateJohnsonMusic]

So educational! I'm going to use this as a reference as I continue to build my Mac-based rig. It's going well so far with a MacBook Pro and Axe I/O one going straight through Amplitube, and you helped me quite a bit!

[@AV-cx7ob]

Fascinating and excellent explanation. Great video!

[@PaulDeMaio]

Awesome stuff.. Thank you so much. 🤘

[@ThomasBrunkard]

Thanks Paul. Lots of potential jumping off points so if you try and get stuck somewhere please let me know!

[@arfoe]

I love your setup man. Very impressive. Thank you for making a such a detailed breakdown of your rig. Super cool stuff. 🤘

[@ThomasBrunkard]

It's Geek Level 10 stuff and there's one point I did mean to hammer home which is I did this once and now I just focus on playing. Everything is ready to go at the gig. That's a worth a lot to me!

[@arfoe]

@@ThomasBrunkard I agree. I use a Fractal into a power amp and cab and I love it, but if I had to start over my whole rig, I think I would go with something similar to your setup because the plugins are so crazy good now.

[@benirodriguez9516]

I was waiting for the Wig being in that hard case! :P you got to take care of it too! :D

[@ThomasBrunkard]

Beni - I have no limit to my hatred of the wig. NO LIMIT! :D

[@LaurenceRutherford]

Just downloaded all of your Tonex models and Amplitube presets... really great stuff .. the Tonex captures are brilliant! Cheers

[@ThomasBrunkard]

Ah that's great! Making them was a labour of love.

[@TheFrozenDesert]

Fantastic video. Subscribed.

[@ThomasBrunkard]

Thank you for your support. If there's anything you'd like me to cover going forward then please let me know.

[@TheFrozenDesert]

@@ThomasBrunkard Thanks to this great video, I just order the pieces to build a mini-ATX PC to be dedicated to Amplitube. I just started converting from Tonex / Hardware to 100% Amplitube so I don't know what I don't know :-) Your experience is quite valuable and I look forward to more commentary in regard to the pros and cons of a pure in-the-box guitar rig. Thanks again!

[@ThomasBrunkard]

@@TheFrozenDesert If you think of it will you let me know how you get on? This video took off rather quickly so if there's anything you think is worth covering on its own please let me know.

[@strings2wood]

A deep rabbit hole and really well explained. You obviously have mastered this with good reason for your needs. Taking on playing Brian May's place in this band says as much about you as an accomplished player as well as the technical design of the tone. Brilliant work indeed and more power to you. Best from Australia.👍

[@ThomasBrunkard]

You're very kind. We're all very passionate about what we do and it's a privilege to share it on.

[@Liam_Doherty_UK]

Very interesting video 👍🎸😎

[@ThomasBrunkard]

Thanks Liam!

[@LIGHTintheHALLS]

I have been using Amplitube 5 live for a few years now and love it! You really have it mastered!

[@nicolasfrom]

Really great video, thanks Thomas.

[@DoctorMcFarlandStudios]

I agree that IK needs a floor modeler like the Helix and TMP.

[@majagesina]

I love your presentations of gear, user experience, and tips & tricks. Inspired by you, I want to try out Amplitupe and Mainstage. Thanks Thomas 🙂I would like to see a schematic illustration of your setup i.e. connections between all your gear - maybe that could come in an other video?

[@ThomasBrunkard]

It's not that complicated (to me anyway!). The Interface has two stereo outs. Two lines (left and right) go to the DI box over 1/4 cable then on to the front of house desk. The other two go into jack to XLR cables and on to the two QSC CP8 speakers for my monitoring. In terms of getting the guitar into the interface it is a bit silly. I have a treble booster built by Yonderbosk that goes into a transmitter. The treble booster really has to be the first thing after the guitar as I need a good interaction with the volume control for this gig. The midi is connected wirelessly to the Mac using the WIDI adapter.

[@louisplett]

Wow, great video! I run a similar setup live, using a MiniPC on Windows through Axe I/O solo and a homemade Midi footswitch controller. Your way of explaining how a speaker compresses at higher volumes and how you handle that with a multiband compressor is gold. I'm going to have to experiment with that!

[@ThomasBrunkard]

A homemade midi controller?! Very impressive! Glad that the speaker compression bit helped. I think I might do a separate film on it as the high pass thing people are doing is a bit of a hack I think. Some sounds might have their spikes at slightly different frequencies so it's worth spending a bit of time on it to find the sweet spot.

[@louisplett]

@@ThomasBrunkard I'm guilty of throwing a massive low pass filter on the top as well after realizing my sounds are harsher loud on the speakers than in my headphones. It's very interesting to think how the guitar speaker "compression" automatically solves this and how we need to adjust for it. You may be onto something extremely important for getting modelled tones to translate live!

[@ThomasBrunkard]

@@louisplett Just to be clear - I don't think it automatically solves it, unfortunately you still need to use your ears and play around with it. It would make for a great device to do all of this with a measurement microphone.

[@Tophaholic]

The BOSS GT-1000 already has the multi band compressor utility. Its baked in its Mastering FX block. One needs to place the block after the speaker emulation. It works pretty well. The Rock setting takes out lot of the harsh higher freq attack

[@ThomasBrunkard]

Now that's interesting. I'm going to check up on that!

[@joaquin8637]

the gt1000 is the gift that keeps on giving, just like the helix

[@ThomasBrunkard]

@@joaquin8637 The Helix was terrific value. The size, processor and Vox sounds were limiting factors for me but I still use Helix Native on occasion and it's a swiss army knife for guitar sounds. I can't wait to see what they come up with next.

[@ThomasBrunkard]

I've just been through the manual and I can't find reference to it. Do you know what they call it?

[@algarvemike]

I love your multi band compressor tip at 32:00 mins in this video… 👍🏻👍🏻

[@ThomasBrunkard]

It's been really helpful to keep the sounds intact. There's a lot of sacred cows with this stuff and they really need challenging.

[@chris407x]

Excellent information well presented. Thanks!

[@ThomasBrunkard]

Thanks Chris!

[@averagemusician4813]

This is the future, iv been using Gig performer with a M2 air for a year now. Its amazing, a proper up greade from the helix.

[@ThomasBrunkard]

I'm going to do a film on Gig Performer soon. Just working through it. Excellent software.

[@averagemusician4813]

@ThomasBrunkard nice! it's amazing.

[@vubear]

Great video, I really enjoyed that

[@TheProducers]

Your video is right on point for me as I am playing my first gig using Mainstage with Amplitube. Thanks for sharing your experience. I use an MXR A/B Box pedal to feed 2 channels of my UA VOLT 476. Each channel goes into a separate instance of Amplitube in Mainstage. My requirement for now is pretty simple so I can get away with this two tone per song kind of a thing. All driven with an M1 Macbook Air.

[@ThomasBrunkard]

That's a fascinating approach. If you wanted to save a pedal you can do things to route the audio in Mainstage. That said, sometimes it's just as handy to have the hardware right first. I love the flexibility of it all.

[@TheProducers]

@ Seeing what you do with your rig, and how reliable it is, got my anxiety down to a manageable level for the upcoming gig. I thank you for that Thomas. Cheers from Canada !

[@Cpt_Adama]

You could do all this with an Axe-Fx 3 or the FM-9. Of course you would have to program all the Brian May amps and settings yourself which might take quite a bit of time, where as Amplitube has that already done. Thanks for showing all the work you have put in your setup, quite innovative and practical.

[@ThomasBrunkard]

I reallylike the workflow with captures. What you put in is what comes out. I’d love for a single box to exist that has all the functionality this has but I don’t think we’ll see one for a while and by then plugins will probably be more advanced 🤣 This is a very tricky tone to nail down. I’d love to spend some time on an Axe FX to see how close I can get.

[@Cpt_Adama]

@@ThomasBrunkard Pretty sure you could get it very , very close, especially if you know all of Brian's setting on each amp and effects unit. This guy demos a company that sells preset blocks that are already setup for Brian May, which you could edit if you didn't think it was close enough kzbin.info/www/bejne/rYm3lamCeddmfJIsi=CHkVPaZfzjumwJKu

[@jimamsden]

There's an incredible amount of knowledge in this video. I have build similar systems with MainStage and tried to use them live. It's still my gigging backup: MainStage, HelixNative, MC8, etc. But I find Helix, Quad Cortex or FM9 provide most of the same capabilities at a more consumable setup. Its primarily a workflow issue.

[@ThomasBrunkard]

This is it. The key thing for all of us is to get the simplest, most effective solution for the job at hand.

[@GingerLeftyGuitar]

Fair play Thomas. Top tier advice here.

[@LaurenceRutherford]

Great video Thomas. Is there a reason why you dont use the Tonex captures in Amplitube?

[@ThomasBrunkard]

Hi Laurence! I absolutely do use ToneX captures in Amplitube. I ran a project when it came out to profile some Vox AC30 amps in Brian May mode (i.e. full blast and near death) and that's what I've been using ever since. At one point recently I was on Quad Cortex but this is still the best sounding solution for me.

[@LaurenceRutherford]

Ah yes, sorry my mistake… I missed the use of Tonex in the AmpliTube screen shots. Cheers.

[@ThomasBrunkard]

@@LaurenceRutherford There's still a lot of good in the AmpliTube amp models but to my ears ToneX has the edge.

[@MiezoT]

thanks so much for this! Question: you have the multiband comp also on the feed for the main mix, no? Or only on the personal mix and let the soundman do something comparable? Thanks!

[@ThomasBrunkard]

It's just on my mix as the soundman generally doesn't have the same problems we have on stage. With floor monitors and in ears, the sound doesn't get to dissipate through the air or by reflecting off surfaces like wood to soften the high end. For in ear monitors you can put some short room reverb to simulate that effect. With speakers, this works a treat. The distance of the PA speakers and acoustic qualities of the room full of people take care of that on the front of house side.

[@pasha1362]

Great video. Have you looked in to Quad Cortex Cross Over in Splitter? Basically you can send high frequency to a separate row and have a separate compressor on that row.

[@ThomasBrunkard]

Now that's a fascinating idea. I'll investigate that. Nice one.

[@trevorlee9140]

Class video Tom, I might chat u on the midi setup sometime

[@MuckingAboutWith]

This is an excellent video full of great information, I play in a power trio, the Bassist and drummer are loud, and it's taken me a long time to get my digital rig as satisfying as my old Plexi plus 4x12 to play through, but efficient enough for festival changeovers, I use a Quad Cortex, but I run guitar and vocals through it, then I monitor through a 4x12 and an on board solid state power amp, the FOH gets a direct feed, I play off of the 4x12, I dial all my sounds in at stage volume so I deal with the shrill elements you tame with the multiband compressor at source, my tones sound a bit flat at low level, but at stage volume it sounds and feels like my old Plexi. the QC also controls some synth patches via the Widi Jack.. nice to see someone else using that. Who knew the future would have so much math.. :)

[@ThomasBrunkard]

I trained as a logician so I'm happy with this end of it. I'm certain working like this would be terrifying to most people but I want to stake the ground so that this stuff can be distilled into something more palatable for everyone else. Plexi sounds are great, they're one that will survive a lot of cuts.

[@stephenpertesis6738]

back in ‘19 I was using a similar system with a laptop running Ableton with S-Gear. All wired. honestly, it was phenomenal. I’d like to revisit a set up like yours, except the Tonex one pedal is so compact and already does everything that I need. Fletcher Munson curve is definitely a real phenomenon though, and this set up addresses it functionally. As well as utilizing Tonex captures which, after using every software as well as tube amps, is absolutely the most accurate.

[@ThomasBrunkard]

Having spent a lot of time with the Quad Cortex and Neural, I absolutely agree. IK Multimedia nailed it. I don't do videos on that as it's prone to sensationalism. They're all very good at capturing the tonal quality of an amp as it is at that moment but there's something more dynamic about ToneX to my ears especially at high volumes and with things like pick dynamics, volume pot adjustments, pickup changes etc plus all this with a real treble booster in the front. I'd love to just have a single dedicated unit that does a lot of this but I'm not convinced I'll ever see one. Imagine pitching a 192Khz standard with multiband compression for a mass produced device for famously luddite guitarists?

[@arljoshua]

I’m working on my rig and been sending a parallel mix from laptop to my mini amp. Results are good but need help with upgrading what I’m at

[@ThomasBrunkard]

If you want to drop me an email I'm thomas AT brunkard .com and I can see what I can do for you.

[@kennethr.vanamerongen1386]

Great tutorial Sir . I’ve always wanted to know how to do this . I’ve experimented with amplitude several different times but the guitar interface always seemed fumbly and made of plastic so I just stuck with modeling units . By the way , do you always use a coin to play your guitar with ? Thanks

[@ThomasBrunkard]

Guitar interfaces are the weak point. No audio interface seems built for stage use. The Axe I/O has done very well once I put it into the rack case. The weak point is the transformer though but I'll do a video soon on how to manage that type of stuff.

[@musiccreation1198]

Fantastic video, ty !! Main Stage vs Gig Performer?

[@ThomasBrunkard]

I prefer Mainstage. It's made by Apple so rock solid and it comes with a lot of useful content so it's great value.

[@sethaustin7128]

This is exactly what I have been looking for. Thank you for sharing your knowledge! I am buying an Axe I/O this week and plan to build out the same rig you have. Are you using Helix Native live with this rig at all, or are you exclusively using AmpliTube and Tone X?

[@ThomasBrunkard]

Hi Seth! I was actually using the Polycapo in Helix Native earlier this year to manage some key changes and it worked very well. For my gig, I did use an actual Helix originally but I much prefer the sounds I get from AmpliTube ToneX and I worked very hard in a studio to get the capture that I use on stage. Everything here works for Helix too but you do get the advantage of much more DSP. You can also blend and mix plugins too such as @IK Multimedia Quad Comp for managing the output for FRFR. The sky is the limit!

[@sethaustin7128]

@@ThomasBrunkard Fantastic! My next step is finding the right FRFR speakers. I mostly play bass at gigs. Do you have any wisdom or insights on what to look for in FRFR speakers with this setup?

[@ThomasBrunkard]

@@sethaustin7128 I think the ones I use wouldn't work very well for bass. A lot of speakers are made more expensive by DSP addons that you don't need so much with a rig like this. I use the QSC CP8 but perhaps a CP12 would do better for bass? Otherwise do check out the Yamaha DXR10 or DXR12.

[@Hillman1312]

This is very interesting; I'm considering building a hybrid solution that allows me to play keys (using MainStage) and plug in my guitar as well using Helix Native (or whatever plugin). Where did you get the case and the rack-mounts for the Mac mini. I'm considering using a Behringer Flow as the sound card as it allows me to connect some other stuff if needed.

[@ThomasBrunkard]

That Behringer looks very useful. Because I'm doing something very particular (putting a treble booster in front), I have to be careful on interface choice but if it's just regular guitar and mixing other sources then this looks great. The shelves and rack case came from Thomann: www.thomann.de/ie/flyht_pro_stage_rack_95_2u_double_door.htm www.thomann.de/ie/flyht_pro_rack_tray_95_1u_mount.htm The newest Mac Mini is a different shape and I haven't tested it yet and it also an issue in that the power button is a funny place so be careful there.

[@jeroenbron8271]

Nice! I tried a computer based rig before but did not work out for me at that time. But this looks like something that would work great. Which version of the 2023 Mac mini do you use?

[@ThomasBrunkard]

I can't remember the specifics but it was the most basic cheapest model on offer.

[@jeroenbron8271]

Ok, thanks!

[@mikebryant4146]

Thanks much for this detailed discussion. I especially appreciate your take on supplementing the MC6 Pro. I couldn’t help wonder if using Toggle Mode could have substituted for having to add the Triple Switch? Also. Have you ever tried Ableton Live as a DAW and if so, what didn’t you like about it?

[@ThomasBrunkard]

I was coming from the older MC6 and jsut copied my stuff straight across very recently with the new pedal. I have these stupid allergies that practically blind me so the display was enough for me at first. I'll investigate toggle mode next. Thank you for flagging it!

[@2tubeguitar]

Being able to use only the iPad for all plugins and daw is the dream of a lot of musicians. I don’t understand why Apple is not leveraging it with all the relevant players in the industry

[@ThomasBrunkard]

They keep making iPads into supercomputers but the software doesn't match it. This is in every sector I think except maybe the video editing space.

[@arljoshua]

Apple was made For artists but has become a mass consumer product over 20’years

[@JoseyStranded]

I have used a combination of MacBook Pro, Universal Audio Apollo Duo and UAD 1959 SLP plugin live on stage. Why? Because that's all I have at the moment. Ran it stereo with UAD Lexicon 480L small room reverb bringing depth to the sound. It sounded massive. No channel switching though but it worked well with switching to neck pickup with volume on 2.5 for clean sounds.

[@ThomasBrunkard]

Nothing wrong with any of that!

[@dscataglini]

This is fantastic info, I've been thinking about doing something like this. What's the latency? and what settings are you using? For the scenes issue, personally I was thinking of using something like ableton or logic pro (I wasn't aware of soundstage) with multiple instances of my plugins loaded on different tracks, and change which track is armed via midi. So that I'm limited by how many track I can have loaded with a plugin preset. Did I miss where you talk about power protection/backup? I couldn't imagine going with this setup and not having some kind of battery backup. (I've gotten unplugged without any notice so many times, it has influenced me about what I carry (or not) to a gig

[@ThomasBrunkard]

I haven't yet encountered issues with power yet myself and I guess I've been lucky with the gigs I'm doing. I'm running one instance of AmpliTube, the EQ and Quad Comp so I can run the rig quite high. That's 192khz with an 128 sample buffer and that is a very tidy 3-5ms roundtrip latency. The scenes work around in AmpliTube wasn't too much of a problem just a bit of extra work running the midi but it could be a bigger deal for other sounds. The only thing I'd caution about running multiple instances of a plugin is that you it might make things unstable and limit how hot you can run it. But then again, the more recent Apple silicon machines are so incredibly powerful that it could just be fine!

[@dscataglini]

@@ThomasBrunkard Thank you so much for the quick reply. I can't wait to try this.

[@ThomasBrunkard]

@@dscataglini Let me know how it works for you

[@joaquin8637]

Thomas! big thank you for this video. how long is the longest effect chain you are capable of running using this set up?

[@ThomasBrunkard]

It's not a case of the amount of effects in a chain as different effects are more intensive than others. Pitch shifting stuff is very CPU hungry. The most intense one I was running was Helix Native first in line working the Poly Capo to lower keys then my usual AmpliTube stuff which also has a harmoniser. It didn't break but I did reduce the sample rate down just in case.

[@BataraKado]

I mix my live backing tracks in ultra high sample rates, i export my audio when i am done making albums and also use higher sample rates then most ... i sway toward using 96khz sample rate every time, but when performing live, my computer is set to standard sample rates, so that my backing audio is ultra HQ (drums and bass) and my guitar and vocals performed live are either standard sample rates or above if possible.. its the only way to retain clarity while being able to avoid muddy mixes fully, even after mixing over and over, sample rates set high are just a must have..

[@ThomasBrunkard]

There's lots of benefits. Pitching tracks up and down is another. It's overkill for domestic consumption but it's got utility for stage for sure.

[@JudgeFredd]

Awesome

[@cyface]

Cool

[@duarteestelita7257]

Pretty great video, thanks so much. I had watched the previous/other one a few weeks ago...and i really liked your approach. I liked it because that is the way ive been thinking of approaching things, for a long time (I'm coming back into playing music, after a long time away). 1 question: _ do you not get a lot of noise, from powering through USB ? Thanks

[@ThomasBrunkard]

The midi stuff is off chain so that's OK. The power brick for the interface finally died after three years hard service last week and I used a Songbird FX Birdcord with a short USB C cable into a dedicated USB PD power supply and everything was OK. www.songbirdfx.com/products/birdcord-pd9v/ There are issues if you run multiple devices off one USB C power supply. Such as if one is unplugged it power cycles everything else. Sometimes with multiple audio devices you can get ground loops so you have to be able to ground lift a device in that scenario.

[@duarteestelita7257]

If I remember correctly, you're using amplitube through its native software, right ? No host sequencer? I was thinking of following what I use at home, which is two instances of Ampljtube, one running the Vox, and the other running the Fender Twin. How do you find the Wet/Dry stereo sitting in the mix ? I'm assuming you're the only guitar.. How does the front of house usually pan the guitar ? Thanks

[@ThomasBrunkard]

@@duarteestelita7257 I run AmpliTube through Mainstage when using it live. This is covered at 22:58. I process the sound differently for my monitoring using other plugins that aren't in AmpliTube to ensure the Fletcher Munsen effect is countered. I do wet dry thing within AmpliTube rather than through separate instances. Every time you invoke a plugin you're inviting potential instability so it's a good idea to let it do as much of the heavy lifting as possible. In the mix - I don't do hard panning with the sounds and I think this would be troublesome. The main thing is to keep some degree of separation so the sound doesn't phase cancel and the really whacky delays are as immersive as possible. I'm not sure how they pan it in exact placements but each side is usually opposite the other I think just not all the way left and right. It sounds rather grand! See my band's KZbin channel here: www.youtube.com/@QweenItsaKindaQueen

[@KennethACrashwaggonMusic]

I play in a Queen tribute band myself, and I've found that nailing that sound has been a bt of a nightmare. The AC30 at full pelt is just too damn loud, and the various modelling stuffI've tried just doesn't cut it (certainly not without quite a lot of stage volume). Not one to give up easily though. Your video did give me a few ideas to try out.

[@ThomasBrunkard]

I think it was Muse, it was a long time ago but I heard their amps ended up living under the stage. The thing with the modellers is frankly, some of them aren't up to it. The built in Vox in the Quad Cortex is a joke for instance. The Helix does quite well and I did well with one for years before I moved onto this. The thing is with all of them is that you have to manage the EQ to get it to work on stage. The biggest win with ToneX for me is I've had to do very little with them to get them working reasonably well at volume. Nothing has come close yet but of course I had to spend two days in a studio in the suburbs of Dublin knocking the face off one with diagnostic signals praying it wouldn't catch fire to get that far :D Let me know if I can help you at all.

[@iainh631]

Have you seen the Paint Audio Computer Effects CE1? It has the computer, audio interface and footswitches all in one, so you could simplify your live setup. It's Windows based though which might not be for you, if you prefer iOS.

[@ThomasBrunkard]

@@iainh631 Wilson has done a great job with that. Very impressed. There’s some issues for me with his Midi controllers that I need to see changed but I’d sooner have one of these than the Quad Cortex I have if I had confidence in the software holding up.

[@onsesejoo2605]

Wonder if all the smaller clubs etc. have a PA system that can handle these kind of systems.

[@ThomasBrunkard]

It's just another sound source. If you do a gig where you rely on a guitar amp to hear yourself and the place is small, you probably need something to make this stuff loud too. That's either an FRFR setup or in ears. If the amp used to service the audience because the PA could only take the vocals etc. then just the FRFR on the crowd. In this case, try and make sure you set your treble at the ear height of the audience (same with a real amp too). It's a highly directional frequency and if you have it brighter and you're above the speaker, it'll be much brighter for the audience at the same ear height as the speaker.

[@caleb11900]

Cool vid. What's the latency like?

[@ThomasBrunkard]

@@caleb11900 sampling at 192khz with 128 sample buffer gives between 3-5ms round trip. It’s slick.

[@duarteestelita7257]

Hmm.. Do you use 192khz because of the video side of things?

[@ThomasBrunkard]

@@duarteestelita7257 To be honest, I only starting do that when upgraded to the 2023 Mac Mini to see if it could take it and it did. The latency improved but the big win was pitch shifting. Our singer was ill at the start of this year and I had to fly in Line 6 Native to polyphonically retune the guitar and running the clock that high really helped. I keep it that way as the harmoniser works very well with it that high too plus I can actually hear more detail in the high end. At home, you mightn't pick up on that but at 120dB on stage you can hear the difference,

[@ThomasBrunkard]

@@duarteestelita7257 Sorry - for video I go for 48khz - I'm not that good of a filmmaker so I use that because everyone else does and the native sound of the camera comes in at 48khz so I think it helps with the sync later.

[@cinocino9342]

Ho usato anche io il Mac air m1 con mainstage.. Ora uso iPad Pro m4 con camelot pro… Dentro di camelot utilizzo plugin vari: Nam ( tramite lettore GigFast lite), tonex, thu overloud , eventide ecc ecc.. A camelot pro connetto via bluetooth l airstep di xsonic ed il pedale exp bluetooth di boss… Valuta che su camelot puoi caricare i testi dei brani piuttosto che appunti, spartiti ed indicazioni varie e soprattutto le backing tracks dove puoi anche assegnare dei markers per cambiare preset in automatico senza toccare nessun pedale a terra!! Tutto gestito da camelot. Al posto tuo darei un occhiata a camelot pro👍

[@ThomasBrunkard]

Grazie per aver guardato! Stavo usando AUM Mixer su iPad a casa e come backup. Darò un'occhiata a Camelot Pro

[@cinocino9342]

@@ThomasBrunkardÉ un ottimo software! Superiore per tante cose a MainStage 👍

[@jimamsden]

I don't find the USB to be that gig hardened cable wise. Have you had problems with the USB getting disconnected?

[@ThomasBrunkard]

No actually. As part of the USB C standard there is a locking groove that keeps them in place. Cheaper cables don't seem to have this so watch out for that. I'm not using USB C for long distances over a stage. They're not suited for that for sure!

[@truescotsman4103]

We're already there. Your amp is a digital toaster. I'm using all sorts of stuff including analog preamps with analong speaker simulation and digitlal modelers with IR's. I'm also using Tube amps and speaker cabinets and microphones without IEM's. I would never use a computer because I'm not trusting my live performance to a Windows or Mac personal computer. I'd rather use an appliance dedicated to DSP and configured with I/O that's fit for purpose. Adapting a laptop is a similar chore but with more liabilities. I've been playing for 45 years and I have a computer science degree. I'd rather not rely on personal computer operating system while I'm on stage performing if given a choice.

[@ThomasBrunkard]

And you're free to make that choice. I'm not a computer scientist but I am playing gigs of scale regularly and I trust this set up more than anything else I've used in 30 years doing same. Bad software can make things dangerous. Everything I've demonstrated here is reputable and with a pedigree. The key is to test whatever you rig you land on as best you can to see the tolerances.

[@jimamsden]

Why amplitube vs. NDSP plugins. Helix Native, S-Gear...?

[@ThomasBrunkard]

That's a bit like the old Les Paul versus Strat canard Jim! 😁 It's down to the gig. IK Multimedia brought out the Brian May Amplitube pack so as a Brian May impersonator, I pounced on it early. During COVID I got quite happy with it at home and made the first version of this rig and it was a lot better at Queen than the Line 6 Helix I was using. When ToneX came out, I was able to get the amps in a better place and still use the effects I was familiar with. AmpliTube has great options for the part of this that guitarists avoid. Essentially what we're dealing with is a simulated mic on an amp rather than a simulated amp so studio style EQs are very useful for folks that were brought up with those. The beauty of this is you can use whatever you want and, if it's missing something like advanced EQ, parametric compression or whatever, you can just drop it in from another brand's plugin. Amplitube doesn't have a polyphonic pitch shifter for example. I needed one for a couple of gigs so I just used Line 6's plugin to cover that. The point is that if I was on a multifx I'm stuck with whatever the manufacturer has put in it.

[@Twominutedevotions]

I’m going to be doing this with a MacBook Air and I’ve been considering pedalboard-mounting the Axe I/O one. I’ve been using a Mac or iPad live for 10 years now and it’s a million times better than a dedicated unit

[@ThomasBrunkard]

My only fear with having the interface on the ground is the danger of audience of lead singer drink destruction 🤣 The Macbook Air has a lot of potential for this kind of work. Just make sure to guard the screen with your life! When I lost a screen at a show it was heart break getting it fixed!

[@nerbuhc]

No heating issues? Those mac minis are notoriously bad with venting

[@ThomasBrunkard]

I was running a 2018 Intel Mac Mini at first and I put some USB fans in the case to be safe. Currently I'm on the 2023 Mac Mini and the fans barely come on. I think the ventilation issues are a legacy of the Intel epoch.

[@nerbuhc]

@@ThomasBrunkard good to know!

[@benirodriguez9516]

seen the new Mac mini?... even mini'er, and if you get a smaller audio interface... there you go.. smaller, and lighter! :)

[@ThomasBrunkard]

I've spent more time than I should designing something there. It's half the weight!

[@jaspersquire5931]

What lag does this set up give you?

[@ThomasBrunkard]

I'm running this pretty hot (192Khz) and the round trip latency is between 3ms and 5ms with an 128 sample buffer. I talk a bit about why I sample that high in the film but basically it does make things a bit slicker, at very loud levels you can hear a difference in the high end and the pitch shifting is smoother.

[@truescotsman4103]

Cost of ownership for Mac vs Windows is no contest. Mac has far more issues than PC. PC users have access to their own system and can get under the hood if needed. Mac users are limited by what they can do and are typically less knowledgeable than a PC user on how to address issues with their system. I worked at a christian college and it was a Mac house and we had a huge team of people supporting a ridiculously small number of machines and we were very busy. In contrast I worked for a large aerospace contractor that was a PC house and I was the only person at one point supporting over 265 PC's myself. Supporting 265 Mac systems would be impossible for a single person.

[@ThomasBrunkard]

That would be far removed from my experience in this context using a computer on stage and in recording studios. I did try mini PCs and a Surface Pro. The memory of driver issues alone with Windows gives me palpitations!

[@wkelly-hn4kb]

Guys I knew got tones from their hands and a couple stomp boxes

[@ThomasBrunkard]

If it ain't broken then don't fix it. Sometimes that will work for some folks but there's other jobs where more is needed. I'm working in a production with an iconic sound I can't fluff for example. I could use the stomp box (treble booster) and the requisite three Vox AC30s but it's just not practical or reliable. At the end of the day though, no matter what gear you're using it'll come down to your hands, heart, ears and mind. No amount of gear will fill a deficiency in any of these.

[@BurninSven1]

Use ordinary old time amps loose all that computerized stuff

[@ThomasBrunkard]

There was a time when I'd get a lot more comments like this but they're trailing off now. If I were to do this with three amps, I'd need three Vox AC30 amps and some sort of rack FX. The Vox amps would be run flat out to get the sound which would be much louder making soundcheck (which includes a 9 piece choir) rather difficult and time consuming. Sometimes we have festival shows where we don't even have a soundcheck. The amps are much less reliable so there would need to be at least one more in case one of the others dies on stage. The audience experience would suffer as the engineer wouldn't have full control of the mix. No thanks.

[@DarioBrubeck]

Anything beyond 12" IS too big.

[@ThomasBrunkard]

I pity your wife if you think six minutes is forever. YERSSS!!

[@DarioBrubeck]

@@ThomasBrunkard Hahahahahaha! Well played!! :D x

[@garethde-witt6433]

Digital is a stupid way to do live gigs

[@ThomasBrunkard]

I'm guessing you're in with the controversy for the fun of it but it's a classic debate. I remember my last gig with a valve amp. A wedding in fact, Smoke On The Water. Actual smoke billowing around the room - "oh! someone brought a smoke machine" - I thought. But no. The amp was on fire. Tube amps are great and changing them out might not be necessary for everyone. For my work, I'd need three Vox AC30 amps running flat out. They're notorious for failing being run like this, they're rather heavy and they are very loud and require a lot of time to sound check.

[@Virtual-Media]

Why?