The Future of Stereo to Atmos Conversion is Here (And It's Surprisingly Affordable)

[@SamHocking]

For anyone experiencing left/right/balance issues, it is critical that the output channel order of DANU match in the input channel order of wherever you're taking the 9.1.6 'exactly'. This is something I hope to address in the future because every DAW handles this differently. As in Michaels video, in Reaper + Fiedler Beam (free Essential version) this will simply work because both DANU, Reaper and Fielder follow SMPTE order, other DAWs can screw around with channel ordering, even in-between plugin chains. An easy fix is to use a channel matrix plugin such as Melda's MChannelMatrix (free). This will allow you to correct any DAW funny-business!

[@david_farmer]

Thanks Michael yet again! I love these videos and they are super helpful and fun to watch. I've picked up the full Fiedler fromm earlier videos, and bought DANU as well. I'll definitely make use of these tools. I'm also a Mac Reaper user so these videos are perfectly suited for me. :). All the best!

[@michaelgwagner]

Thanks! Much appreciated! 🙏

[@SamHocking]

Thank you for this video Michael. Just in case of confusion in terms of downloading D.A.N.U. I've made it a download you get the link to directly after payment from the payment confirmation page, it isn't emailed to the email entered via Stripe, although that email address will be used to send customers future updates. If you are not happy with the purchase for any reason within 7 days I will refund you. Also worth mentioning is plugdata can be run standalone, so even if your DAW doesn't support multichannel requirements of plugdata, you can still use D.A.N.U. within your setup via virtual or physical 16 channels.

[@michaelgwagner]

You’re very welcome. ☺️

[@lordcannon2020]

I was able to test D.A.N.U intensively and compare it with other upmixers. I am enthusiastic about D.A.N.U and was very pleased that Sam Hocking immediately incorporated all my requests. Great performance and great tool. 👍 This upmixer has proven itself particularly useful for stereo files created with AI (frequency mixing).

[@michaelgwagner]

Yes, Sam is great! For anybody who wants to chat about DANU, join the Discord!

[@murraywebster1228]

Nice to see someone bringing the exclusive environment to the normal users, maybe this movement will bring more acceptance of surround sound

[@michaelgwagner]

👍

[@stevegeorge7773]

Yea, I’ll get it to support the work-and a big kudos for the work! As a protools user I’m very very supportive of the AAX development.

[@michaelgwagner]

A Pro Tools version would be nice, I agree.

[@SamHocking]

For now the only way to use it in ProTools is to install a free AAX VST Wrapper called Kushview Element (free version v0.46 will work) and then put plugdata in that and load DANU. One user said it crashed ProTools, but I just tried it and it works fine. I did notice a small bug with the LFE Push not working, but will work on fixing that for next update.

[@stevegeorge7773]

@@michaelgwagner Just one thing I thought of,,,,, what about automation?

[@michaelgwagner]

@stevegeorge7773 Automation works as expected. I experienced no issues.

[@SamHocking]

@@stevegeorge7773 DANU exposes the parameters to the DAW so you should be able to automate. For AAX users, the only way to use DANU currently is to host DANU in Kushview Element on a 9.1.6 track and load plugdata into Element. This works, I have tested it.

[@necipfazilaskar]

🎉 Very good news. I want more atmos plugins

[@michaelgwagner]

I agree. 👍

[@kinetixtt]

Great idea, looking forward to the compiled VST and CLAP options in the future. Best of luck with sales and development!

[@michaelgwagner]

👍

[@QFXmusic]

Great video :) Do you need to use dolby atmos composer ? or can you use it with a daw with Atmos ?

[@michaelgwagner]

It’s effectively a stereo to 9.1.6 upmixer. You can use it wherever you would need such upmixing.

[@surreal_youtube]

just bought it…gonna be a fun night 💪😅👍

[@sysxtem]

wonderful product and absolutely needed!

[@michaelgwagner]

I agree! ☝️

[@surreal_youtube]

This is wonderful 👍 thank you !!!

[@michaelgwagner]

👍

[@haidali1]

Thank you for this video

[@rebelinc]

Very interesting. Gonna give it a spin on an old track, where I old have the Stereo mix.

[@michaelgwagner]

Let us know how it goes!

[@rebelinc]

@@michaelgwagner Well it was very east to setup using Cockos Reaper and Fiedler-Audio Atmos composer. Just a quick test, but still no issues so far.

[@haidali1]

شكرا لك علي هذا الفديو القييم

[@michaelgwagner]

You’re very welcome

[@NoQualmsTheArtist]

Finally an upmix plugin that doesn't cost $500 👻

[@michaelgwagner]

😎Correct

[@ghfjfghjasdfasdf]

Fools are born everyday.

[@charlesalison5854]

@@ghfjfghjasdfasdf are you ok?

[@robshrock-shirakbari1862]

No data or numeric or frequency readouts on the knobs? Seems a strange oversight. It's already largely a lot of guesswork; but some feedback would help.

[@SamHocking]

I think there's bug on the macos version of plugdata to not show the values which only just came to light on some systems. It should display low pass and bandpass cutoff hz. Everything else is simply a % amount. But noted, this will be added/fixed in v1.1

[@M2000z]

I’m on Mac with Logic Pro, Dolby Renderer, and APL Virtuoso. Would I be able to use this without the Fiedler audio pieces?

[@michaelgwagner]

It currently only upmixes to 9.1.6 and as far as I know, Logic can’t work with 9.1.6. So this combination would not work at the moment.

[@onomatopoeidia]

Clever! I have many mixes without the original stems because…hard drives…..what a great idea. I find it really interesting that my Roland RSS8048 3D spatial sound processor makes sense finally :) also that I’m getting asked for vinyl again for the first time since the late 80’s so building a vinyl cutting lathe for short runs 😅 why not! People want physical formats too and why shouldn’t young audiences experience the medium too!!?

[@michaelgwagner]

👍

[@onomatopoeidia]

@@michaelgwagnerbought it. We must support these efforts.

[@haristudio1300]

I have purchased DANU plugin, please upload demo video with Logic Pro, Cubase Pro

[@interaktiveaudio]

Thanks a lot this is a great news instant buy 💪🏴‍☠️

[@michaelgwagner]

👍

[@ghfjfghjasdfasdf]

Is Atmos available in peoples cars, in most homes, at concerts, clubs…. the list goes on. Stereo is King, dude.

[@michaelgwagner]

Club sound is mono. 😉

[@NoQualmsTheArtist]

@@ghfjfghjasdfasdf Atmos is available in most high-end new cars. I have an Atmos theatre room in my house. Clubs, stadiums and bars are mono, so is mono king? You don't really make any good points, you just sound jaded 🤔

[@christurbiville]

@@ghfjfghjasdfasdf I get the impression that you may not be entirely familiar about audio standards. Clubs, bars, and most stadiums have no need for anything more than mono as the spaces provide no context or ability to sense stereo information. Most car manufacturers as of 2024 are driving initiatives and implementing Atmos into new cars as the tech is extremely cheap to implement. Essentially it's just a software decoder that sends audio to what most cars already have, a full 5.1 or more already with front, side, and rear speakers. Atmos only needs 2 height speakers more. Sony has spent millions over the last 2 years developing 7.1.4 emulation in earbuds and say they will launch these later this year. I get the "stereo is king" mantra, but my father was mixing and engineering for A-list artists since the 1960s, and he remembers when "mono is king" was on everyones tongue and people complained about how stereo was a gimmick..... and now we are here again.

[@ghfjfghjasdfasdf]

EDM clubs have been utilizing stereo above 250 hz for decades. If you think 5.1 in a vehicle is “atmos”, then knock yourself out…. and if you think 7.1 or anything more than stereo can be achieved in headphones, then I’ve got a river in Egypt to sell you. Comparing stereo to atmos is one of the most foolish things I’ve seen anyone say on a music channel.

[@ramspencer5492]

Tell that to Apple who won't even let your tracks onto their playlists without an Atmos mix... Though I certainly don't use atmos personally.... Beyond "Atmos" EQ loudinators on laptop, tablet and cellphone speakers.

How does it compare with Penteo?

[@michaelgwagner]

Peter apparently does not null (even though it claims to do so). Sam can talk more about that.

[@immerseaudio]

its a good idea but i think this is a step backward for spatial audio

[@michaelgwagner]

It depends how you use it. If you have a stereo mix with no access to the original session, upmixing is your only option.

[@SuperAgentAB]

@@michaelgwagner was it not allowed on apple spatial audio guidelines?

[@SamHocking]

@@SuperAgentAB Their guidelines are Atmos must be created from multitracks, but I think it's more about quality control. So many Atmos engineers have to upmix in some capacity be it by simply playing stereo through a 7.1.4 speaker array and recording that as 7.1.4 (some very well known and respected Jazz releases were done this way, so simply physical upmix through air instead of plugins) or not having access to full multitracks for a variety of reasons. End of the day just make it sound good and use it creatively where possible.

[@michaelgwagner]

If you use a 9.1.6 upmix via the DAC, it will create a composite consisting of a mix of bed tracks and object tracks. That’s why it is compliant.

[@gregcoomer1775]

Perfect timing...my Penteo trial is coming to an end and as much as I love listening to a fuller, fatter sounding upmixed, stereo track, I ain't paying £299 for the basic version! NO! Just read that it ain't going to work for Logic! Is this true?

[@junh1024]

With this upmixer, I'm concerned that it'll undermine Apple spatial & Dolby Atmos - people will just upmix their stereo masters. On stems, it's likely not great either, as there's likely less separation & decorrelation than true upmixers like Penteo and maybe even Anymix (incl in Nuendo) & Halo. It's also upmixing to only 916 instead of 714, which doesn't help with correlation & precedence on smaller systems. As for "not nulling" to the original, this is a small issue in practice imo, as I would actually rather have subtle changes but a more immersive & stable image, rather than this. If I wanted to use mid-side processing, I would have done so in my DAW

[@SamHocking]

Fundamentally, there are already Atmos Upmixers and Atmos engineers are using them as tools every day to benefit their work. Yes it can be abused, this is true of every single plugin you own. As I hope I got across in the video, the inspiration was my love of Mach 1 and there being no similar tool for Atmos. Decorrelation and anti-correlation DSP was included in my early proof of concept testing. My conclusion was that it's better to keep DANU very lean and low latency with low cpu so it can potentially be used on multiple stems at once in tracking, live recording and mixing. If decorrelation is required, there's 1001 plugins that can help with that from simple processing available in any DAW you can apply to taste or more specialist plugins such as SPARTA Decorrelator with randomised time-frequency delays and cascaded all-pass filters including transient bypassing and level compensation. While it's certainly possible to setup a few hundred different routings of audio from a mid/side source, managing that in a way that maintains 100% fold back to stereo is very difficult, very cpu heavy and gets confusing quickly. Certainly not a task I feel most want to figure out imo. I did also begin with various methods of where to derive a mid/side type source. Directional Energy Analysis and Phantom Centre isolation is what Penteo uses primarily I believe and that might be an option in a future update. You'd be surprised how many methods both in the time or frequency domain end up with very similar results to determine direct and diffuse signals though.

[@olympum]

DANU is truly impressive, and crazy competitive to Penteo. Congratulations! Hope to see it progress in the future months. I agree that any stereo upmix to Atmos will end up undermining the format. Right now Apple, may be approving these tracks for distribution, but it's clearly against their Dolby Atmos delivery guidelines, and they made decide to stop approving them. Honestly, between AI music and fake Atmos mixes the value of Apple Music is going down every day, so I would not be surprised if they took action. Upmixers are one more plugin in the tool-belt, and I can see a good use for them at this price, complementing surround reverbs and multi-mic track recordings.

[@i.a.m-poornasrikarm]

🌟

[@ramspencer5492]

Cool.... So it's a tool to meet Apple standards for playlist compatibility.... Does not actually any atmos multi speaker ping pong delays, etc.... But it probably sounds pretty good for people who are into binaural "Bloom"..... Which can sound better to people on earbuds..... Which have no space and are right in your head.

[@gwsound]

Just from a editor point of view I would suggest to first show something the plugin does before I have to listen to an interview about it and not knowing what it is.

[@michaelgwagner]

I thought about that but then decided against it.

[@a-job7276]

Nugen, over 400€... D.A.N.U less than 30€, what a time to be alive. Any plugin or virtual soundcard to convert Atmos to Binaural? If I can convert 2.0 to Atmos in real time (or with very low latency), I would like to convert it to Binaural afterwards. What I currently use is a virtual 7.1 soundcard to binaural, for 9€ it's very good. But the 2.0 content is not converted to surround and much less to Atmos, it's simply a virtual 2.0 (speakers and virtual treated environment, captured by impulse response), which is not bad, but imagine treating the phantom center, the effects, the mid-side content at a GOD level. D.A.N.U has beaten the game.. If I could buy a license for personal use from D.A.N.U, to program the Daisy seed board from Puredata or Plugdata... imagine. Having a .wav list of IR, for HRTF (Virtual Surround to Binaural), using a 2.0 or 5.1 source. Having dynamics and de-esser control, EQing the response of my headphones, all this without using software on the PC. Now imagine that 2.0 or 5.1 is converted to ATMOS, wouldn't you be amazed? Atmos for headphones (official app) doesn't convert 2.0 because it doesn't treat it as objects or as virtual speakers. DTS H:X (V1) does because it doesn't work with objects, but with V2 it's like Atmos, that's why I use SSC for 9€. I only use headphones. I'll be very attentive to what this heaven sent does.

[@randylahey2953]

Thank fkin Gard I was born American. Holy shit

[@freako9558]

👀👀👀

[@michaelgwagner]

😎

[@jjrusy7438]

atmos is too complex for the mainstream. the various forms of quad and neural/spacial tricks didnt go mainstream either. it is awesome but super niche and i wouldn't invest big into it. i see so many people playing music from their crap phone speaker = no fidelity, so there is no hope lol.

[@SuperAgentAB]

@@jjrusy7438 I get it. No one's gonna invest for surround sound system (never mind the binaural for headphones to simulate surround environment.) At least, try to leave Atmos for a change, and besides, it's optional, not forced, at least afaik.