THE GAMING STORYTELLER On The Lost Primarchs | Astartes Anonymous Podcast #25

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‪@Dutch40KGuy‬
00:00 Goofing
06:38 Intro
09:02 Models of the Week
13:13 The Lost Primarchs
Intro/Outro Music By georgeNrat
Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio
Additional Music by Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio - released under CC-BY 4.0.

[@MrEmerys]

One theory I like about a lost primarch is one of them was a blank. The general theory was that the legion was expunged because a legion of blanks led by a primarch tier culexus assassin was one of the few things the Emperor didn’t have a solid plan for control over.

[@Evaunit98]

The idea of the Emperor not being able to find one of the lost is hilarious

[@penpaperfury5397]

49:52 we also have evidence of the lost primarchs being both male from The First Heretic where Lorgar and Magnus are having a conversation about The Emperor wanting to disband the Word Bearers and Leman Russ speaking in Lorgar's favour where Magnus states "Fenris is an unmerciful cradle, and it breeds such things in them. Russ knows that, though he lacks the intelligence to give it voice. Instead, he swore that he’d already lost two brothers, and had no desire to lose a third."

[@NorthInfluenceGaming]

The one theory that I always figured was closest to home was the theory of one of the missing being overly-peaceful or pacifistic while the other was incredibly connected to the Warp to the degree that they possessed an intuitive understanding of it. The former being self-explanatory as to why they wouldn't work in the plans of a crusading empire that needs its generals, the latter leaves a lot to think about. They may have less curiosity about the Warp than Magnus and yet have better understanding of its nature despite Magnus' technical prowess in utilizing the Warp being greater. They do more than believe in it as their unique position informs a potential desire to see it better utilized or included in the greater plans of the Emperor, rather than it being subdued, defeated or outright destroyed. This, obviously, would conflict with Big E's plans. They may also have had a genuine potential to rise into becoming a Chaos God (or something akin to one), but one pursuing unity of both the Warp and realspace, rather than the Great Game the major four play. Think an Empire of Mankind Greater Good, rather than the Tau based one.

[@jessiechen279]

Perhaps the chaos one is vashtor 😁

[@suemeade2471]

He only captured Vulcan after Vulcan got hit by a nuclear bomb by Peter turbo.

[@cmiguel1321]

After Peter Turbo dropped several nukes because Peter had Vulkan lock eyes to him and Vulkan was heading toward Peter

[@warlordjr.jr.]

Because absolutely nobody wanted to ever try fighting Vulkan fairly, even before they knew he was immortal.

[@cmiguel1321]

@@warlordjr.jr. F*cking Exactly .... as Vulkan said to Kurze " I have always been the biggest and strongest and I am about to show you why" [if I got what he exactly said wrong, my apologies, it's been a while, all I remember is Vulkan said some badass things and proceeded to pummel and put the fear of death into Kurze]

[@alastor8091]

​@@cmiguel1321I thought my boi Ferrus was canon physically strongest?

[@roykemm8387]

Lol Peter Turbo

[@gusheine2119]

"Malcador trust me, it'll be hilarious" -Big E before everything shitty

[@Ambulatory_Viscount]

@Astartes Anonymous 50:35 - I will play Devil's Advocate on this *_one_* topic. All we know about that conversation is that the Emperor thought Malcador was joking. We're never told *_why_* the Emperor thought it was a joke. The Emperor clearly doesn't dislike women- the Sisters of Silence are exclusively female for no discernible reason, and were the Emperor's Left Hand, alongside his Custodes. He spends thousands of years on the Throne granting his power to the Sisters of Battle, thanks to their faith in him. And him and Erda were, at one point, tight-as. And him and Amar Astarte were, at one point, tight-as until she betrayed him. So, I will put forward the idea that the Emperor found Malcador's suggestion funny *_on the basis_* that the Emperor knows full well that women are *_no less prone_* to jealousy, pettiness, grandstanding, hierarchy, hatred, cruelty, or depravity. So he found Malcador's suggestion that female Primarchs wouldn't in-fight as much funny, and thought it was a joke, because he knows that women aren't any less likely to fight with each other. Only perhaps in slightly different ways than men. And Hell: the first instances of any of the male Primarchs coming to blows were hardly matters of machismo, alone. Russ wanted to tell Angron to stop the spreading of the Nails among his Legion and Angron simply believed the Emperor was a tyrant; Fulgrim's mind was corrupted by a Greater Daemon, and pushed into decapitating Ferrus. Neither of such things were the result of their "maleness". And really: Malcador is known to have once been a *gigantic* scum-bag and war-criminal, whose friendship with the Emperor is the only reason he still lives. And Malcador is an old-ass, mortal man who may well, despite all his power and wisdom, still have blind-spots when it comes to human-nature that the Emperor can see clearly through, even if from the vantage-point of being nigh-godlike. That is all. Thanks for listening to my TedTalk. EDIT: Malcador isn't mortal, and might actually be as old as the Emperor, but the point stands.

[@EmmettF.W.]

More! I require more of this!

[@willrogers3793]

Said the same thing much less eloquently before I saw your comment, decided to delete my own because you just put it much better than I did.

[@ayoublahrach4169]

The only thing wrong in what you said is that malcador is immortal and is probably as old as the emperor

[@Ambulatory_Viscount]

@@ayoublahrach4169 Ah. Fair.

[@thecoopinater]

Nah the full lore is the second found the emperor’s funko pop collection, told the eleventh and then the eleventh tried to sell them to trayzn.

[@sharlockshacolmes9381]

My head cannon as to why the second disappeared is because Lemann Russ can't read roman numerals and and thought the II was an 11

[@Aravaganthus]

My theory for the second lost Primarch is that he turned out to be an uncompromising pacifist so his legion was quietly integrated into the Ultras

[@kirbypoyo4390]

At 36:10 red says "he managed to capture vulcan" but let me point out that vulcan aint no bitch. To capture him it took *SEVERAL NUKES*

[@bardenjusik2026]

You four are quickly becoming my favorite lore masters along with boldermort. You lot are a riot. 😂

[@seanallard9335]

**Drinks milk in lactose superiority.**

[@andylin9523]

35:35 just time stamping Red’s amazing curze rant about his wily labyrinth

[@HopelessReminder]

{places bolter against back of head} "read the fucking script"

[@killaramen386]

What if the lost primarc was one of diplomacy and he constantly argued with big E over the whole crusade thing on whether they need to take over the other worlds or if they could peacefully cohabitate with them. He loved all races just as much as he loved the human imperium and that was a massive problem. Due to his “traitorous” thoughts and possibly actions (you could even say he might have even fought against the imperium at one point while they were conquering the galexy) he was executed. And since his ideas were actually kinda reasonable, aka so opposite of big E, he had to be put down and forgotten before his ideas spread to the rest

[@thatotherguy8138]

Personal head cannon: Rangdan were HUMAN... who also happened to have leaned fully into Genetic Manipulation, to the point where many were indistinguishable from Xenos. (for reference, the Ousters from Dan Simmons Hyperion cantos) -2nd finds them on the Crusade, and opens up talks with them. He's not a warrior by nature, and prefers non-violent compliance when possible and generally prefers not to genocide human civilizations. Even mutated ones, or ones that fall outside the acceptable range. -2nd is unaffected by the Emperors Charisma/Psyker abilities (possibly a blank), and feels no loyalty or love toward the Emperor. (His Legion feels the same towards him - they aren't awed in his presence, they don't feel a loyalty to him simply when he walks in the room, etc. He's just a really tall Astartes, with a Primarch's strength, intellect, etc.), so he's been a quiet thorn in the Emperors side for a century. -2nd finds the goals of the Rangdan more in line with his own morals and ethics (this can be BAD - not painting the Rangdan as Good here, only as a viable HUMAN alternative - it could be as little as "Rangdan turn other human groups into chattel slaves rather than genociding them, and while they're slaves... they're LIVING slaves rather than dead bodies that the Imperium would be turning them into..") and decides to defect. Most of his legion stay loyal to the Emperor and Imperium. -11th has a genetic flaw that is legion wide, and hampers them to a great degree. 2nd decides to tell the 11th about the Rangdan, and they decide to ask the Rangdan for help. -Randgan manage to cure the flaw in the Legion, but - like Butchers Nails - the flaw cannot be removed from the Primarch. (why didn't the Imperium cure this flaw? Let's leave that question intentionally unanswered) -11th joins the Rangdan as well, out of gratitude and loyalty. Significant amount of the 11th joins for the same reason, and because of Primarch Aura. -Emperor is having NONE of this, and is tired of the 2nd's Shenanigans. (Always something with this contrarian little shit... how many times did I have to send Russ out after him to clean up the messes he refused to do himself? How many times did I even sent ANGRON out there to genocide a mutant world that 2nd went "Yeah, they're good. Four armed humans means more guns or whatever. I'll let someone else figure out how they should salute us." FOUR ARMS?? Did he really think that was acceptable?!?!?) War with the Rangdan breaks out. It's... bad. They have the strength to back up their position, and be an actual threat to the Imperium. -Eventually, Imperium wins. Primarchs II and XI are removed from the setting, one likely killed by Russ (II), one likely captured (XI). (but we have subject II in the Palace... is that subject 11, or subject II? font matters!) -Most of the propaganda that is known throughout the Imperium (what little there is) shows mutated humans that are passed off as Xenos. (it ain't hard - it'd be harder to convince people these things were humans.) This is done intentionally so that the Imperium never knows there was a competing HUMAN idea for a HUMAN future. That's the important part of this - Xenos says "We have a better way for humanity!", it's easy to go "Ya no. Eat a nuke, Xeno scum." It's a bit harder to go "My FELLOW HUMANS, we have a BETTER WAY for the Future! A HUMAN future!", and lots of humans would look at the other option if they had a chance, so the Emperor does all in his power to turn that into the Narrative. -But... there's always that doubt in the Primarch's heads about this. Their brothers just left the Imperium, they didn't rebel, or try to destroy it, or... and they really don't understand why the Emperor was so angry about it. It just seems out of proportion, all this effort, all this mind-wiping of the Astartes (many of whom didn't join their Primarchs, so were absorbed into other Legions), destroying homeworlds, forbidding anyone from speaking of them ever again, it's just so... over the top? Yes, the Randgan were tough, but ... wtf? What's so dangerous about the Truth being known? (at this point there are just two(?) Primarchs who know about Chaos, and neither of them are named Magnus) -The Emperor doesn't want people to start investigating. Rogal and Robute are the kind of people who would be unable to help themselves in looking at the Rangdan to see if there is anything they could incorporate into the Imperium - they know it, so they volunteer to having a deeper mind-wipe than the other Primarchs.

[@thomashuizinga4618]

This makes so much sense to me that this will be my head canon till proven otherwise.

[@flotner]

April episode idea- who are the best pranksters in 40K? You could have each of the your models replaced by Alpha Legion too. Just a thought. Great episode, you guys rock!

[@MaxUltimata]

The Demon Core no longer exists in real life. It was melted down decades ago and turned into a bunch of other, smaller Demon Cores for researching nuclear reactions.

[@Warhammer_AI]

We must reassemble it.

[@angry_zergling]

@@Warhammer_AI And make it bigger!

[@theharp6249]

Fuck it the lost primarchs are Gork and Mork

[@Nope_Nerds]

Y'all know our boy Trazyn has both missing primarchs in his gallery.

[@darcon5836]

Biggest issue i find is that everything changes based on who is writing the books at the time. I hate the fact that the Emperor was this figure that by all accounts before was just trying to do his best for humanity but they end up writing him to be more and more of a piece of shit.

[@holyhayn]

Yeah I always thought that retcon was bad.

[@dannyd.9932]

The ability to drink milk was key to the evolution of humanity into dominating the planet and eventually the galaxy.

[@AbatedBaton]

My guess is one of the lost primarchs got WAY more corrupted than Horus did (like chaos’s version of omegon) or the other legions, for example what if a primarch was raised by chaos daemons instead of humans and he either killed or did something horrendous to the other that required a mercy kill from leman, malcador, or Big E that scarred them emotionally. If it was chaos I can see the emperor and malcador doing anything to cover that up specially if it’s correct assumption . In terms of if it was a mutation it would make sense if one of them and their legion were extremely susceptible to chaos more so than the others

[@JoelTheKven]

One guy in the boring Edo period writes a book about how he thinks samurai should behave and the West goes, "Hey! They must have all believed this!" No. They gathered heads for a paycheck... and often left for a lord who would pay them better. Bushido is a WW2 era myth touted by the military junta.

[@Koppu1doragon]

My theory is the missing two are replacements for Angron and Magnus. Unlike Angron the missing replacement did not get anything like the nails and was too empathetic to xeno or chaos and attacked the Empire while trying to save them. The Magnus replacement was either mutated or corrupted by chaos and betrayed them, though you would think that would make Big E more worried about Magnus if that was the case.

[@martintodd9944]

I'm pretty new but I read somewhere that GW has said they were purposely left mysterious and vague and will never be explained so that table top players can make homebrew and can make them into anything they want and nobody can say "that's not canon" and theres 2 so both players can play full homebrew against each other. So they'll never be explained

[@Koppu1doragon]

@@martintodd9944 Cool story, I don't remember asking

[@martintodd9944]

@@Koppu1doragon so why are you crying? Cos I pointed out your theory is meaningless cos GW are t ever gonna reveal the truth, so people can still homebrew? Is that really an excuse to get upset? Wow, you really put a lot of heart and soul into your theory, huh? Shame it can never be proven or disproven. Don't cry though, it's not real. Be a big boy

[@Koppu1doragon]

@@martintodd9944 cool story, didn't ask

[@martintodd9944]

@@Koppu1doragon stop crying, come on that's the go to saying of a crying 5 year old who hears something they don't like "I don't remember asking" it's not worth getting upset about. Warhammer isn't real, please stop crying

[@blackopsy9]

Russ didn't kill the two missing primarchs, The Lion did. The Space Wolves being labeled as The Emperor's executioners is also completely false. When the Thunder Warriors were massacred on mount Arrarat, which legion assisted the Custodes? The 1st. When the survivors of the Thunder Warriors were being dragged from their hovels, which legion was responsible? The 1st. And at last in Fallen Angels when the Emperor speaks with The Lion it is revealed that none other than the 1st is entrusted with the most sensitive matters which would leave the other legions cowed. The 1st alone is entrusted with the horrible arsenal inherited from the dark age of technology. A legion shrouded in secrecy where silence is the watchword.

[@Wazzen563]

Your "evidence" does nothing to prove your claims.

[@Warhammer_AI]

I love this theory. Especially when you think about how bad leman is at killing Primarchs

[@SparseS17]

Im convinced its just a ploy so when you fuck up you prepare for Leman and the Space yiffs but instead The Lion shows up on your door with Dark age tech out the ass to actually get the job done.

[@williamings773]

Remember children, drink your milk... or we will come for you.

[@chainsawsubtlety9828]

One of the Lost Legions got turned/controlled by filthy Xenos during the Rangdan Xenocides. They ended up getting the bad end of some forbidden, war-crime tech, courtesy of the Dark Angels. The other one got sick of slaughtering Humans and committed the unforgiveable sin of refusing to fight, anymore. He got the Wolves unleashed on him. The remnants of either/both Legions were later folded into the Blueberries. This is my headcanon, and is therefore beyond contestation... At least, to me.

[@Samm815]

The former was 2, and the latter was 11.

[@legobattledroid4110]

My homebrew lost primarch landed on a feudal world plagued by orks, got taken by orks to become a fighter in their slave pits, and rose the ranks by psychically latching onto the gestalt field and taking over an ork waaagh, until he finds his marines and passively buffs them like a boss to his boyz

[@christianhunt4999]

I like the idea that tyberos of the space sharks is a mind wiped fallen primarch, and that's why their gene seed is so "chimeric"

[@RipOffProductionsLLC]

Space Sharks are loyalist Night Lords, you're never convincing me otherwise

[@RSBurgener]

Dan Abnett said that the Primarchs are all based on the known constellations. I couldn't make heads or tails of that shit, I got stuck on the chariot driver. Theoretically, if you could match the 18, there would be 2 left. Also, the Primarchs are supposed to be redundant, so if one was lost, you'd have another dude that could do the same thing. I think one of the 2 lost ones has to be a Psyker, because Magnus is the only warp master.

[@genericname3206]

I would imagine one of them is an expert in maritime and underwater warfare if one of them would be redundant it would be that one

[@RSBurgener]

@@genericname3206 sort of like Aquaman, who is, in turn, sort of like the Hawkeye of the Justice League. He contributes nothing of value to the team because 95% of the battles are land-based. But that 5% is baller, because he summons a great white shark to bite the enemy in half.

[@lborlet5204]

Chariot driver is likely the khan

[@RSBurgener]

@@lborlet5204 haha! You know, that occurred to me after I wrote this, and now that you've said it, I'm convinced. Maybe I should start to Constellation Primarch Research Project, match all 18, then figure out the last two. I can do it.

[@elijahstewart3377]

My personnel pet theory: The Charcaradons aren't a chapter at all, but the remnants of one of the forgotten legions, and Tyberos the Red is so gigantic and insane in melee because he isn't a space marine, but one of the lost Primarchs. Not any real basis for this, just an idea I came up with and thought was really cool.

[@beziik2357]

Mmmm no. At least partially no regarding Tyberos cause he'd be such a weak ass primarch if that was so

[@MyGreengecko]

The Great Crusades entire budget, was accidentally invested into something called the Bored Jotaro Cruise club.

[@AsianPlagueDoctor]

Haven't laughed so hard in a while. Thanks for that, God bless. This was ridiculous

[@trex8387]

Imagine if the reason the Emperor only beamed up Angron on Nuceria was because he was rushing to the next planet to save the second primarch from a similar fate to Angron. And the reason they're legion is erased is because he didn't get there in time to save him.

[@aguspuig6615]

thats very cool but at the same time he couldve beamed down some custodiants to carry Angrons fight and then dipped to get the other Boi

[@Lord-Regent-of-the-Imperium]

​@@aguspuig6615right?

[@eiric6958]

I drink milk, straight up. I'm with you.

[@ezicagent2724]

Americans shaming for drinking milk? Bruh, most Americans drink milk! (Except for Californians, the bloodlines of that state are WEAK)

[@kylemoss7941]

I aways thought at least one of the lost Primarchs had to be a dedicated psyker like magnus, because you can see how some of the primarchs seem to act as redundancies for each other except Magnus, which is weird when you remember Magnus was designed to sit on the Golden Throne. Of all the ones to not have backups for, why not him?

[@kylemoss7941]

I don't remember the specific book, but I know in oneof them, Big E & Mal were working on the GT & they said that almost off-handedly.

[@Wolfbroa]

That’s one I agreed with one like magnus in being a psyker but I mixed it with angron being bit of a healer so my opinion what always I’ll stick with is one of the lost primarchs is a necromancer and using power of the undead grew and twisted and before it could grow and spread to the legion they killed them off

[@17thmidnight96]

I want to see the 51:08 bit animated now

[@YaBoiTheGrimReaper]

The more I watch and learn tidbits of lore from this, the more I see how frighteningly well the 2 "Lost Legions" I came up with somehow work - especially with some of the chapters that Red mentioned. And I knew absolutely nothing about the Lost Primarchs other than "they gone" and that we don't talk about them unless you want to know what a bolter shell tastes like, nor did I know of those chapters that didn't at all seem related to the legion they supposedly came from

[@aligaterr5137]

Maybe just like Sanguinius was an avatar of sorts to the 2 warp angel gods and Leman is possibly part Morkai, the 11th primarch was possibly an avatar to Malice and took more of the soul of the "god" into himself, having to be defeated and his remains that were labeled "subject 11" put into dark cells to imprison the warp entity Malal. Knowledge purging weakened the worship of the warp entity and so Malice, whose influence is greater daemon level at best, has the gall to be adressed as the 5th chaos god, which may have been somewhat true previously.

[@Sirmoth108]

I like the idea that the 11th might be related to the Mortafacters. Just being a extreme cannibal, but not in a hunger for flesh but a hunger for knowledge. He could have been eating his own men or even the xenos. Possibly fucked up his head by eatting a xeno and going insane. Or he learned something he shouldn't have and the emps just erased his ass.

[@Warhammer_AI]

The Mortificators, Soul Drinkers, and Sons of Malice are way too similar.

[@casmd2131]

My second legion was cowboy themed and their specialty was blanks/nulls to reinforce the whole lone stranger cowboy vibe. Since I was using dark Angel models for them I wanted to justify them having watcher in the dark models, so I decided that their main genetic flaw that they got from their primarch is that every 1/10 people that got successfully implanted with his geneseed became a blank and just… kinda stopped growing all together, forever being trapped as a child. These little brothers were greatly treasured so would be guarded at all times by a veteran of the legion to fulfill the other cowboy/western trope of an old grizzled cowboy taking care of a child. Since their primarch was stuck as a child he ended up being far too innocent (or naive depending on who you asked) to tolerate the brutalities of great crusade for very long. Then his home system got consumed in a warp storm; so with nothing left he tried starting his own evolution. He only got support from the eleventh legion because they had been slated for termination anyways for some other reason. Leman Russ promptly showed up and brutally murdered the child, (at least he managed to make a couple rune priest’s heads explode just from standing near him before Lemann squashed his head like a tomato can) Anyways, millennia later his home system popped out of the warpstorm and was under assault by demons. My homebrew chapter, Sons Of The Lion (originally a crusade based chapter) showed up to liberate the system. After a very costly campaign that wiped out most of the chapter’s upper echelons and apothecaries they decided to make the system their new permanent home system and recovered to full strength oddly quickly. They adopted many of the systems traditions/religious beliefs and abandoned many of the traditions long held by the unforgiven. They also claim to be guided by a group of watchers in the dark that they found in the new fortress monastery that also helped save their chapter from extinction, although they haven’t elaborated on how they did so.

[@timelesswisdom.]

Since when is drinking milk weird? I say this as an American. It’s a whole thing on schools. Carton milk and all that

[@Hiro1oo1]

See, I found out it's the quantity that we drink it compared to other nations. America's government puts a lot of money into farming via subsidizes and promotional material for farmers ('Got Milk?') to the point where we just assume that we need to drink more milk. A similar thing happens for the corn industry, corn syrup is so cheap and enabled to be an additive in everything, that in other countries American made bread is so sweet it's comparable to a pastry. It's why our sodas use so much corn syrup, because in America it's cheaper to use that instead of cane sugar.

[@Zaxilius]

You guys got me into 40k, painting my first minis today

[@waynehutchins3431]

Cool! What minis did you get?

[@undercovertakodachi4301]

me In japan where the shipping is Doubled the Price of the minis Itself.

[@Warhammer_AI]

You poor soul...

[@DISTurbedwaffle918]

There was an English Primarch and a Scottish Primarch and the two ended up killing each other.

[@AWolf615]

Now that Mootz has admitted to the intro jiggle, I don't feel so alone now.

[@user-yd1mf4xk2g]

What if Trazyn stole one of the lost primarchs, like he was DEEEP in Big E’s funko-pop collection and the primarch comes to see what ok TERRA is that noise, and Trazyn kidnaps the dude so Big E didn’t know who stole his limited edition funko-pop of himself

[@bad-people6510]

There are famously no Scottish maintenance engineers in science fiction. Nope, not even a single beloved example. I bet that primarch was big on teleportation raids, down and up. Maybe part of his backstory was that he was wounded in a beach landing or something, was maybe still missing a finger.

[@jared6013]

Gamma radiation can be stopped by several feet of concrete or a few inches of lead.

[@CinderBurn04]

I think it would be funny in the next podcast with Red for him to be holding a glass of milk instead of wine

[@mynori81]

I find it curious when Malcador was going Horus the ol choke out for trying to say a Forbidden name what is it Horus grasps out trying to curse Malcador? "Malal" the chaos god whom don't exist either~

[@TheUnknownaccent]

He could of simply been trying to say Malcadors name

[@RipOffProductionsLLC]

​@TheUnknownaccent plus, the legal issues surrounding Malal, GW is not going to play with that, and especially not in combination with the 2nd abd 11th Primarchs.

[@benjaminprentice6837]

I mean... I'd say if asking about the lost primarchs I'd look at some of those Chapters with unknown Geneseed. For example the Minotaurs who's past is classified so thoroughly even the Inquisition can't get into it, and who, despite being supposed to be from the 21st founding seem to have a lot of contemptor dreads which were most common during the Great Crusade, Horus Heresy, and Scouring several centuries before... I'd also propose that the missing primarchs were erased for serving the Emperor, sort of works... but only if you assume they were sent on some kind of mission so dangerous, or so secret the Emperor couldn't reveal it. This works best if you distrust the idea that they're even actually dead though. After all if you can't remember anything about them how do you even know for sure they're dead?

[@joshpointaverage3711]

i’m american, idk a single american who doesn’t drink milk other than vegans💀 you met the outliers frankly i’m offended by their treachery😡

[@stewartthorpe2533]

Well well well. Meet me, another heretical American who doesn't drink milk 😈😈😈

[@christophersmith8848]

​@@stewartthorpe2533 Yes Inquisitor, this man right here

[@MrPanzer234]

I know space maids will never be fully canon but I WISH THEY WERE.

[@AF-zu2py]

Is it possible that the missing primarchs sought to become gods and this is why they have been completely erased from memory and records since in 40k belief and worship on a large enough scale can result in the creation of “gods” like slaneesh, gork, and mork or miracles performed by the sisters of battle.

[@threerippersinatrenchcoat1411]

Trying to eat during the beginning of this video was a herculean task, i was too busy laughing to eat my cereal

[@Willjoestar]

tri feel the lost primarchs are the emperors contingency, after death part 3 nothing big E does is by accident. also one will be uber pariah maybe a black pariah.

[@martintodd9944]

Isnt the real GW reason for the 2 lost primarchs, so fams can make a whole home brew for the table top and its purposely vague, so they can make up anything even loyalist, chaos or just rogue etc?

[@InVinoVeratas]

That's what I remember hearing as well, but maybe this is to explain why the primarchs are lost canonically.

[@martintodd9944]

@@InVinoVeratas yeah but it's all just vague in the actual writing and all rest is fan theory, but if the real reason is the above and GW aren't gonna make up a dumb reason for them sitting on their arse for 15 millennia and suddenly make a return with new troops and models at special price, then they will never confirm anything cos then it'll screw up the homebrew factor. I get fans like making theories but it's kind of pointless if you know they will never confirm anything and so people arguing over them is kind of dumb

[@sgtstr3am785]

​@@martintodd9944got me thinking about it... I don't think I've ever seen GW confirm the "homebrew" theory but laziness is definitely a possibility

[@adamriley9241]

Russ was sent to Phrospuro to smash Magnus collection of collectable FunkoPops.

[@ChaoticVoicesofAndreas]

Accurate video: 'The lost primarchs are s[REDACTED]'

[@dalamarwren424]

0:04 I know it’s in good fun (hopefully) as I love live from the black library AND Anonymous. But I find it oddly funny the xeno hate from a group that cradles an ork, a world eater, a danty gentleman marine, and an over agressive NightLord hehe. (Honestly I think our resident nightlord is just angry The Harlequinn pointed out his legion has a canon snooty, spoiled Femboy Marine with a demon daddy HAHA

[@nax8159]

Malcador going mach 10: Valdor even said it was surprising so it's not something he really knew about beforehand and he also mentions they pretty much tore everything apart in an attempt to get there as fast as possible so the mental image of these two just running through the palace and stuff blowing up around them because of it is 100% valid. It's also really interesting that the two Lost Primarchs are actually called "the Forgotten and the Purged" and those two things have VERY different connotations if they're meant as TWO titles instead of just a long one title. If it's meant as one title that just shows whatever happened was *really* bad since forcibly forgetting something that you've already purged is insanely final for something a light as 'they're traitors/love Xenos.' For the mutations talk, I always found it strange that all the Primarchs have some sort of intrinsic Flaw, even if it only shows up in their sons. But I finished the Valdor book recently and the first 'Primarchs' were just as flawed as their legions the Thunder Warriors and they'd been working for literal *years* to try and figure out all these random bad mutations and that they'd finally (barely?) done it (to a point). He then also makes sure to say the 'twenty stolen' projects of the Emperor were NOT planned to be the new generals of the Imperium/it's forces. Which is an interesting thought. It would also be an interesting add-on to the Primarchs only having worked out being because they're all aspects of the Emperor's Humanity with a duality that's shown because of the warp nature of their making if you follow The Gods Got Involved theories. Chaos being inherently a dual-nature state, just the Gods pretty much only showing the bad. (Horus: charismatic, an amazing leader and tactician but to his core feeling imposter-sydrome, needing to be needed and pick me I'm good enough I promise, the fear that everything he's ever done will be for nothing and it'll all be forgotten. Sanguinius being noble and idealistic and always seeing the good in the future but then also the inner rage and just wanting to tear everything apart around him, no thoughts just action, feeling like he's a parasite that survives on others. Fulgrim: perfection versus inner loss of control and transformation. Konrad, Magnus, Leman, Lion, literally all of them!) I feel like the thing about the Primarchs having name changes/knowing what they were named probably falls under the same umbrella that their pods were supposed to grow the primarchs/release them/the primarchs were supposed to grow in the presence of humans (now WHY would that even exist unless you were preparing for child support demands) but a number of the primarchs most certainly did not get found by humans or raised by them so like??? How grow? Skulduggery Pleasant. Now THERE'S some flashbacks

[@kenupton4084]

I had come up with a few ideas for the missing legions. The weaker idea... One was a pacifist. When found he was the master of a world of peace and tranquility. As an opposite of Magnus he was a pariah and he sired countless daughters. He had no legion but his daughters became the Sisters of Silence. Second idea... So and so of the Mastodons. Caveman themed legion. All were larger than normal Marines. Brutish and simple minded and often casting aside weapons and equipment to crush Xenos with clubs and fists. They based their beliefs on totems of animals with humans being the top of the totem. He was one of the first to be found with Horus and Leman Russ. He leads his legion into the Rangdan Xenocides and refuses to follow orders or coordinate with the other legions. Eventually the Space and Luna wolves need to take down the Mammoth and the legion is destroyed. They erase the memory by hiding it in plain sight. They name all the imperial vehicles after the totem animals of the Mastodon Legion... Mastodon Tank Razorback Rhino Thunder Hawk Storm Bird Wyvern Basilisk Hydra And so on

[@ee822]

I like the Pacifist idea as well, but rather than him having no legion, he tried to lead his legion in the name of peace and had the highest amount of peaceful compliances of all the brothers, only engaging in war after extreme effort. But then the Randan Xenocides were so horrible that the Primarch just broke and became unresponsive, perhaps much of the rest of the Legion falling suit. Perhaps he was mercy killed by Leman Russ as death was seen as a better fate from how badly he broke. The Imperium as a result lost "Peace" and knowledge was deleted because the idea of a Primarch breaking would have led to the mystique that kept some of the worse off ones from being purged would have been broken, and the Traitors don't bring him up because they don't want to think about the idea that a Primarch could break. The other I tend to think of as a Tech primarch. I like to think he tried to reorganize everything in the Rangdan Xenocides when his brother broke, but his effort was through unleashing whatever he could get his hands on, including going into the banned technology. He was the one who really deployed the Psi-Titans which were later blamed on the Emperor when memory of him was purged, and he made worse abominations besides ranging from completely unshackled Men of Iron to Skaven-tier monsters. He got purged for this by Leman, because the idea that the supposed saviors could bring back the horrors of the Age of Strife/the Old Night would have made that promise of the Imperium into a lie, and the Traitors don't ever bring him up out of an inferiority complex because he effectively rebelled first and maybe did worse things than they did. Either way, the Imperium ultimately lost "Progress". Latter may have even had effects later on. Like maybe Magnus unknowingly borrowed some of what the Tech Primarch said about Technology at the Council of Nickea, changed to be in regards to Psykery. Perhaps that's what convinced the Emperor of his decision, as he saw where those arguments went once before.

[@thanhool]

An inqusitor describing anything as "spooky as hell." Is very funny.

[@Lancersilva]

Malcador is the camera guy they hire to film people with super speed in movies.

[@ravnor874]

I like to think that one of the lost legions primarch landed in the ghoul stars region. But at the time it was a verdant place. His Gene ability reflects the emperors ability to understand someones intentions and plans without much information about them and know what they want, where they are going and what type of plans they are preparing. This ability was somewhat corrupted by entities of the deep warp. Not by their intention but they brushed against his presence in the warp and his innate ability got a glimpse into their existence and thus the existence of everything. The space bending reality of 12 dimensions. A realization that would cripple most primarchs even. This insight gave him the ability to traverse impossible ways and emerging in unforeseen locations. He could travel through the 5 dimensions of real space, while understanding the 12 dimensions. This ability led to him being able to teach his legion to travel through the 4 dimensions, making his legion a tremendous force that could traverse a battlefield in impossible ways, thus rendering any defences obsolete. The problem with this is that the knowledge he had would corrupt everyone who knew about its intricacies. Madness spread as a result of this. The space in the ghoul stars seeped with this madness that turned even the planets into dead worlds where the laws of physics for a period didn`t behave normally. Conrad Kurzes madness took a turn for the worse because of this and his descent became an inevitability. Then the Emperor in an effort to save his sons erased this Primarchs legion, the Primarch himself and the knowledge of the nature of his existence.

[@justsometroglodyte4056]

i really like the idea of the missing primarchs using c'tan power, neat. 57:31 1:01:24

[@christoffereklund4794]

The lost Primarchs/Legions are referred to as 'the forgotten and the purged. Maybe one had something like geneseed flaw that needed them to be purged or allied with xenos. And the forgotten maybe the entire legion got lost in the warp Before the whole warp travel existed and maybe that is why the emps are so relectuve to speak about the horrors of the warp. Just a theory :D

[@jusquanorthwind1016]

I saw a theory in the vein of this where it was actually that they are referred to as forgotten and purged because something caused the purged primarch/legion killed off the forgotten for some reason and then they had to be erased because it couldn’t be common knowledge that the emperor’s personal creations could be so flawed as to turn on each other so and that they could be so easily killed off(and the only reason the whole heresy wasn’t purged is because there were too many traitors to just wipe them out and purge them, plus emps and malcador were dead or too crippled by the end so they couldn’t at least wipe their records and memories.

[@muskrat1983]

The Scottish Primarch was more Viking than Leman.

[@driedguide4236]

That make it AU remark is one I agree with, and heck one I'm trying to run with Because when you make it an AU, universe is yours to play with, you can get a silly or as serious as you wish.

[@r.cdahuman7682]

To counter this at 33:00; in the novel wolftime a custodes is going over theoreticals and theorizing on the returned Gulliman being a traitor/turning traitor/ what they could do against him, and one point he mentions is that if Gulliman is a traitor, reinforcing the space wolves with primaries is an awful fuck up, because of the wolves unwavering loyalty, as evidenced by their records against the 11th.

[@thewerdna]

Yeah, it likely that the Space Wolves did fight another legion before, but had their memories wiped of it

[@dagleason99]

The demon core is actually melted down and turned into multiple different things. Remember what all it was turned into off top of my head. Can't remember*

[@jetcox6760]

Or maybe they just were so Inept, they got clapped first time out and the Emperor just went all "Leave not a trace of these embarrassments..."

[@The_Anti_furry_General]

please make this canon

[@GotrekGurnisson]

My blind head cannon was one was a blank and the other was a navigator. The Blank would be mayan in culture and the Navigator would have been Inuit (I put mortificators as one of his alongside the rainbow warriors and (given they keep changing their lore) the exorcists. The blank one was never found and the navigator one was killed with enuncia term for forget or forgotten. Russ was present but remembers it wrong due to malcador The Inuit one would sail the warp by looking into a pool of ice water and seeing the warp reflected on its surface during this at one point he was possessed by something from the warp and this event is what triggered big E trying to hide chaos. Like magnus he had trusted the more warp gifted to be able to delve the warp in relative safety. So he cast enuncia with a surge of psychic power with malcador assisting across all of the human species altering their memory. Also there is the campaign of the false primarch but that is a tiny lore blurb from editions ago Had a little fun making that. Hope y’all find it cool As for the Emperor being rushed I got the feeling during the Seige of Terra series that the Emperor was trying to do something by the time of the planetary alignment, and secondly I think he chose to have the primarchs be warp based for 2 reasons. 1 he is generally more comfortable with the warp instead of whatever ctan use to mess with physics. 2 he planned to have the Primarchs rule regions on his empire that he was beginning to expand into the webway, with what we have seen of the Eternal city between EatD and Abnett’s other series I think part of how big E planned to kill chaos involved turning the Primarchs into Grails (think Saint Celestine) within the webway which as we know is within the warp. Now having multiple hubs linked to sympathetic locations in material space you could preform an immense ritual of order, calming the immaterial seas.

[@Lord-Regent-of-the-Imperium]

The primarchs can't be blanks due to their innate connection to the warp. Theres a few with some anti-warp abilities. Mortarion, Rogal Dorn, and Leman Russ all have some kind of anti-warp capabilities.

[@GotrekGurnisson]

@@Lord-Regent-of-the-Imperium I know. It’s my own shit I made up for fun

[@ChideraAnagwu-rm6xw]

Vulcan has to be at least second strongest Primarch

[@mister_man3550]

I think it would be cool if one of the lost primarchs was gone from the planet he was supposed to be and there was just a note somewhere that said: thank you for the collectible -trazyn. And he is currently chilling with the fulgrim clone in the vault

[@azrael1045]

I always figured that one of the lost legions fell to unchecked mutation (because of how sanguinius reacted to the red thirst and the other fell to betrayal hence the dark angels reaction to the fallen

[@marcog.verbruggen674]

Makes sense for them being referred to as "The Lost and The Damned"

[@semondice4831]

Painting during the Funko pop bit might have been the hardest hobby challenge I've ever faced

[@therudecanadian8068]

@37:13 I like to think that ol' Peter already had it installed when Konrad came to ask.

[@nyxorelius]

So this was in my recommendations on a adeptus ridiculous and goddamn my sides hurt 9 minutes in from the laughter

[@dillgear7171]

Honor compels me to ask for the Bionicle lore video as per always

[@magosofmars8410]

I feel like the imperial Chinese dynasties would of been a good fit for a lost primarch you could have a cool rivalry with the khan

[@AccessDeniedLULZ]

I wanna see Arthur and Red on the same podcast

[@raymond-reviews]

Honestly if GW gave the canon reason for the II & XI primarchs being wiped from reality because they were ponzi schemers or tax evaders, it’ll be the funniest shit they’ve done

[@DragonsHoardOfPlastic]

Malcador could keep up with the Custodes cuz he drank his milk. That's the power milk-haters are missing out on 😔

[@yopoxikeweapescai9066]

Bionicle lore where? I only remember the lore of hero factory

[@TheKnizzine]

Hear me out. Malcador was Big E the corpse on the throne is the 2nd and the one in jail is the 11th. 🚬🥦

[@migrivp2672]

But my theory on 2 and 11(Roman 2) one of them turned pro man of iron and the other did had a family with real kid of is own and was the mini imperium and was a echo of the heresy on a planetary scale

[@Lisichkin_Topishe31]

Think, Vulkan, think

[@slyscott1430]

He captured Vulkan for the milk.

[@wolf2403]

50:30 In my own mind the emperor should be most like the one from TTS + a bit more arrogance. Mainly cuz goddamn he is a psychopath. AU time: As for my own ideas and imagined fates of the 2nd and 11th primarchs, I imagine that the 2nd landed not in realspace but in the warp itself as their final destination, and the emperor ran into them while on his voyage to find all of them but went "F**k no" when through warpfuckery the entire second legion was being altered due to the effects of the warp on their primarch. Not that said primarch was affected by the chaos gods, but something far older and far more powerful from the deepest depths of the warp. Basically, chaos gods almost caught the 2nd when they dispersed the primarchs but a far more horrifying creature tore through their territory to spirit the 2nd away. 2nd gets heavily influenced by the effects of being in the presence of a being of unimaginable power, both dramatically increasing his and turning him into something far beyond human. As for the exact nature of the changes, he still looks humanoid at first, but his body has changed dimensions slightly, being far less bulky and thiccc like the other primarchs but far more agile and more durable. Basically compressed muscle mass while increasing his stats across the board. Similarly altered like Sanguinius in having extra parts; in this case, a third, vertical eye in the forehead that inflicts direct psychic attacks on anyone it looks at. The main trait of the 11th in my mind would be as a diplomat to deal with threats that either can't be dealt with without losses far beyond what is worth it, or forces not directly in conflict with humanity. For this reason he gets the ability to find differences and similarities between opposing sides and balance them out, while also holding a dislike for needless bloodshed. Problem: he ends up in Xeno territory and this backfires horribly for the emperor. Other stuff I thought of for an AU: Basically same warp entity does damage control, including helping Angron long before the emperor reaches him by basically making the nails something he can turn on and off at will, while granting him far more control over his own emotions and mental state. Also influencing Angron to befriend and become closely tied to Sanguinius and the Blood Angels since his empath abilities would do wonders for dealing with the red thirst. As for other damage control; ripping the vision of the future shown to Horus to pieces and asking him if he knows what a self-fulfilling prophecy is; getting Magnus to NOT rip a hole in the Webway but instead open a "door" through space directly to the emperor; and lastly and most important of all, warning ALMOST every primarch EXCEPT Lorgar (for obvious reasons) about both the chaos gods, their nature, and why they're pathetic. Mainly thought of all of this cuz in the AU I messed around making I brought the general scale and power up to levels much closer to the "War in Heaven" era, so humanity NEEDS to have their shit together in order to even stand a chance against outside forces, those including a revived Eldar pantheon, a Krork Waagh, and a small group of returned C'tan hellbent on wiping out the last remnants of the Old Ones who escaped far beyond the galaxy, get really fking far away, then run into the same thing the Tyranids are running from. So as the Tyranids run, the Old Ones arrive a few millennium prior and hide just beyond this galaxy, and then the shit hits the fan with the Tyranids arriving. Except this time humanity has most of their primarchs, the emperor slightly less wounded, and other Xenos races are far more in-tact than they normally would be. Why? Cuz heaven-spanning warfare is most fun when EVERYONE has their own exterminatus buttons. tl;dr: Cosmic horror travels the cosmos giving advice and aid to abandoned demigods because the emperor is useless sometimes.

[@bad-people6510]

Historically whenever someone was unpersoned it was because they were perceived as a threat to the power system and its leadership. So to be erased to the extent they were, especially when compared to the likes of Horus, the only explanation that makes sense to me is that they somehow disproved the need for an Imperium.

[@EirinsApprentice]

Please do the "useless Ordo Cicatrix" episode, that sounds hilarious

[@boanoah6362]

My favorite theory is that one of the lost Primarchs turned traitor for a xeno race and helped the xenos mind control the other lost Primarch, thus needing both to be completely expunged since the Emperor and his 'sons' are supposed to be perfect. Much like how the traitor Primarchs are also forbidden knowledge in the Imperium.

[@Shamelesscritique1]

I like the idea that one was raised and "tainted" by xenos because it's strange they all ended up on human worlds but I want the other one to be a defective creepy blank/null. I kinda love the idea of one primarch who doesn't buy into the emperors human supremacy bullshit or was just fucking uncontrollable because he grew up surrounded by orks or something...imagine a primarch who makes rus, angron and curze seem tame, calm and stable...like they found him running around painted green killing everything in sight while screaming WARGH! Also I just like the idea of a primarch that scares even malcador and the emperor because their awesome top tier psyker powers don't mean shit to him...he could've even been an extremist who sees normies as inherently inferior and psykers as disgusting mutant abominations who rely on "unholy" borrowed power that need to be exterminated...which would naturally include malcador and the emperor. I also like the idea that his gene seed isn't really compatible with normies and they need to be blanks/nulls for it to work so he never has more than a handful of space marines, like less than even a chapter...but they're like grey knight and custodian level bad asses.

[@clarkneedsaweapon]

I love this episode

[@mrhaast5053]

It's so fitting that the ork player used deductive logic to validate the funko pop mind wipe theory. That's some purple ork stuff right there.

[@IstvanDropSite]

Master of mankind is part of the Horus heresy.

[@jonathanhamilton6190]

46:00 dude comes in after Angron or the lion to clean up after they kill everything