The Garganacl Menace: Overpowered or Overrated?

[@blaziken1234]

I'm just happy to see that, for the first time since Gen 1, Game Freak has finally achieved success with their obsession for giving us many a slow, defensive Rock-type (despite it being an infamously bad defensive typing). Maybe now that they've finally got us to use one, they'll start focusing more on fast, offensive Rock-types for us to use.

[@PKMN649]

Tyranitar.

[@fightinganimations1597]

@@PKMN649 hes a defensive pokemon

[@MrIsleNFair]

they had. Lycanroc forms, but maybe it wasnt shone enough by the community since well...excadrill does the job 100% better

[@1tsJustKetchup]

Now if only they did this for ice types

[@eastboundbird]

@@MrIsleNFair The problem with lycanroc is that it is pure rock and has no reliable way of dealing with deal with pokemon that resist rock. It can kinda deal with steel types, but like it has nothing for bulky water pokemon, bulky ground pokemon, or even fighting types.

[@Auristmusic]

The ability Purifying Salt says everything about the ethos behind the design in this gen imo - they wanted to overload pokemon and make almost everything competitively strong. Total status immunity and extra type resistance in the same ability is nuts before you even get to the free progress move it has.

[@jonathanlgill]

Plus it's a Pokemon with great stats even outside that ability.

[@nothingbutpain863]

Not to mention, this ugly statue was born in the era of Tera.

[@sapinballwizard]

I like how you switch back and forth between pronunciations of Garganacl

[@BBWahoo]

I still like the name Garglesault

[@mdudegamer]

I didn't notice until the very end of the video when he said both in quick succession.

[@asepsisaficionado7376]

Garganacci

[@zephdoesthings]

Gargamel

[@MattMorency]

The true debate

[@massimilianodelrosso5495]

Let's be honest: no one ever expected a Rock type to be this good.

[@kevin6165]

Laughs in ttar

[@massimilianodelrosso5495]

@@kevin6165 no one ever thought about banning Ttar from singles

[@ShinotheQueeno]

Arceus Rock 😅

[@hoodbooger]

He always terras anyways

[@johnhawkins5314]

​@@massimilianodelrosso5495 Gen 3 OU Ttar tbf is probably the closest

[@mandalorianhunter1]

I wouldn't say he is over powered but he is a PAIN IN THE GRASS to fight because of recover, left overs, bulk and freaking Salt Cure. Most of the time I have to switch out just to remove him from the game

[@anthonyk3952]

Garganacl is essentially this gen's version of Toxapex. It's really bulky, a royal pain to get rid of, and will just whittle you to death while also sustaining itself the whole game. There's a reason that most casual players dislike it, while most experienced players find it annoying; experience lets you learn to play around it. Most casual players also fail to recognize win-cons; of course it will be a pain to get rid of when you fail to properly preserve something like Meowscarada or offensive Goldengo against it.

[@mandalorianhunter1]

@@anthonyk3952 or a Tauros, Hippodwon, Great Tusk, Iron Treads or a strong sweeper. Honestly Walking Wake and Iron Leaves will be giving it a great amount of trouble now.

[@luiginumbers6268]

Don’t diss my man salter white

[@SJrad]

speaking of grass... how good would an offensive grass type do against garganacl

[@mandalorianhunter1]

@@SJrad I honestly think Iron Leaves could take it out with the right set up from a boosted solar beam or solar blade. Wo-Chien could out stall it maybe.

[@sythrus]

I gotta say, i was legitimately unsure about how good salt cure was when i first evolved my nacli. I remembered thinking about how it very much made use of rock types many weaknesses in order to bait extra damage on opponents, and I remember the shocking reality that garganacl doesnt have to be swapped in for the damage to persist (as well as the infinite duration of its DoT) I saw the potential, but I didn't know how it would work in the meta. Now i know lol.

[@pitchblendeprotogen]

Toxapex's heir. Not busted enough to be an obvious ban, but very annoying

[@pikminman13]

How dare you insult the agency pyramid by comparing it to pex

[@seltzer666]

@@pikminman13 blunder brainrot

[@robbu2445]

Garganacl is a straight up villain who needs to be stopped

[@nwut]

nah its worse than pex for the metagame and if it existed back in gen8 it would prolly be even more annoying than pex was back then

[@nwut]

@@seltzer666 yeah and

[@ink3487]

Garganacl + Dondozo is a nightmare to deal with because even if you predict protects and recovers and set up boosts on it to brute force through it they just switch into Dondozo and go "nuh uh"

[@akenosm1739]

Honestly most annoying part of him is not his moveset, stats it's that God Damn ability if we could poison it or burn it or eve put it to sleep for a couple turns than it would be manageable

[@bulborb8756]

yeah Purifying Salt just throws many options to deal with tanks out the window, as that only leaves one option to beat it: brute force

[@irakyl]

This is a great breakdown of the situation Freezai, great video. The only thing you could've mentioned as well is that its pre-evo, Naclstack, sits solidly in RU with 9.3% usage. It's very rare for an NFE not named Chansey to be anything but untiered.

[@dingdong1647]

With Chansey's nerf, Naclstack is better than Chansey, who is currently NU.

[@BeeBwakka]

Not as rare as you'd think actually

[@coyraig8332]

Technically "untiered" is used for fully-evolved pokemon, but I see what you mean

[@nicolaistuhlmuller8718]

I feel the main issue about garg is that some of the general stallbreaking tools don't work on it. It can't be weakened through burn and toxic and Salt Cure goes through Taunt, which is arguably the best anti stall move besides stuff like tricking a choice item. That aside effect wise besides ignoring Taunt Salt Cure is more on the level of Leech Seed that comes with initial damage and hits 3 types better, but in turn it doesn't recover hp back. Ultimately the main issue is Tera here, because otherwise it has lots of exploitable weaknesses.

[@yungmuney5903]

I wish the binding moves like infestation, fire spin, whirlpool etc. were reworked into being similar to salt cure just to help against the constant issue of passivity many defensive pokemon suffer.

[@eastboundbird]

Honestly I wish Garg was broken so it could be up for a ban, but it just isn't. It's annoying but like half of the meta forces it to terra and then it can still be worked around. I'm really hoping malamar gets added back in as a hard counter because topsyturving both this and dons curses seems like a fun time.

[@hayyan958]

true, plus imagine terra fighting superpower

[@numberstheidiot]

Imagine a regional form of Malamar that defies the logic of Regional forms, instead of switching its typing it only switches abilities, and gaining a unique one that grants immunity to pivot moves. No more U-Turn, you wanna deal with Malamar then you better turn your Scizor into an X-Scizor

[@eastboundbird]

@@numberstheidiot this but change its typing because its the main thing holding it back. Imagine being quad weak to bug, make it instead psychic fighting because that would be a fun typing

[@numberstheidiot]

@@eastboundbird The only problem with Psychic-Dark is the quad weakness to Bug-type (Weak to fairy is bad, but to be expected on a Dark-type), which you only tend to see on the move U-Turn. With an ability that grants immunity to Pivot moves, however, now people need to actually run a Bug-type move that isn’t U-Turn (or pull a wild card and have a Mold Breaker with U-Turn) in order to truly threaten this hypothesized Malamar. Sure it could definitely happen, but it lifts a huge weight off Malamar’s shoulders to be able to switch so cleanly in front of any U-Turn user and thus forcing momentum to rotate back into your favor. Hell, if you want to make Malamar become a huge threat, give it Pursuit alongside this ability, enabling it to safely switch into the aforementioned Cinderace (or any other Pivot user, such as Palafin or Grimmsnarl (why would you switch in on a fairy type)) IMMEDIATELY followed up with Pursuit-trapping them (Why would you try and pursuit trap a dark-fairy type)

[@willbrolley262]

Malamar was confirmed to be returning in that leaked list of returning pokemon in the DLC.

[@hppern3971]

Basic explanation of Stall since people keep bringing it up in the comments. Stall is not necessarily being defensive. It's a teamstyle focused on preventing the opponent from progressing the game. When a Skarmory using Whirlwind to rack up Spikes damage & gain momentum, it isn't being stally. It's making active progress in the game. Similarly, a Garganacl using Iron Defense/Curse + Body Press or Salt Cure isn't acting stally. That Garganacl isn't so singularly focused on impeding the opponent - those moves progress what that Garganacl wants tk do on the field. Defensive Pokemon, defensive pivots, bulky offense, or even balance are not at all the same thing as Stall. People's inability to tell what Stall is is why people somehow think Gen 8 was a stall-dominated generation.

[@frankfort332]

No not being able to click setup move and attack 6 times and win is stall meta

[@vividbiomass620]

What are stall-y teams then?

[@frankfort332]

@@vividbiomass620 stall teams regularly play games that go 60-70 turns. A battle going 30 because you have to switch a couple times isn't stall

[@xaropevic7918]

Or gen 2 as a stall dominated generation

[@frankfort332]

@Giwrgos Petrou don't Yu-Gi-Oh games last an average of 0-3 turns now?

[@laitentierdotcom]

i think garganacl’s impact to teambuilding is healthy. it isn’t overcentralizing in the sense that you absolutely NEED to use up a team slot to deal with it, you just need to keep it in mind as you build. if your team loses to it, it probably also loses to a couple other mons/playstyles, so it needs revisiting. it doesn’t require specific, unique counterplay only applicable to garganacl to beat, so i think it’s healthy in the meta

[@murder_krow951]

I've been trying to learn fighting games lately so I can play more games on a competitive level rather than just pokemon and this video has a lot of similarities to the problems I'm dealing with in learning fighting games. Garganacle is a knowledge check, does the player you're fighting know how to deal with a good stall pokemon or not, if not, sucks to be them get better and learn how to deal with it, you'll be a better player in general once you are. Lower level players want him banned because they are getting destroyed by it but the higher level players don't find him a problem because, while a pain to deal with, they can handle it. I think garganacle is fine and shouldn't be banned, especially after the nerfs this gen did to stall, it's good to have an option for a very good stall pokemon.

[@SergioRodriguez_3659]

I think a big factor in the ban claims comea from the casual players lacking the tools to outplay defensive and/or stall tactics. Since Garganacl requires to be overwhelmed, setting up the play to do so might prove difficult to do so. I remember hating on Clefable for that very reason on my early competitive years lol

[@Alvionalx]

I was playing gen 9 ou ( low ladder ) and found someone named ‘I HATE GARGANACL’ and that pretty much sums up the casual playerbase right now.

[@trevorpacelli8056]

Thank you for doing such a great service to the community by breaking down each Pokémon's competitive viability! I'm learning so much from your videos! You just earned a subscriber!

[@danielsmith5032]

Crazy to think he has almost same stat distribution as Gigalith. But his move, recovery, and ability is just 👌🏾👌🏾

[@EmeraldCaveKing]

I've found that tera ghost can be useful, as it essentially gives you just one weakness, and can be used to counter close combat. It can also be interesting with a curse set when salt cure isn't enough to take down an opponent and the rest of your team can't handle them

[@ShinotheQueeno]

I think the rock type holds it back a bit. It’s a pretty bad defensive type, being tied with grass for the most weaknesses Including common offensive types like Fighting, and Ground. Yes I know you can use Tera water or fairy, but then you can’t Tera anything else

[@aldrichunfaithful3589]

im not sure if its banworthy as there are moves that one shot it (e.g. protean specs greninja grass knot is my go to), and mons that dont care about salt cure by using leftovers and recover. the problem with it is that the player using garganacl is at an advantage anytime its on the field unless your one shotting mon is also out, and you're forced to outplay your opponent into not clicking salt cure as you switch your wallbreaker in, because the vast majority of mons that threaten it are frail, take extra from salt cure or in the case of something like greninja both, and that sacrificed health gains you nothing because they just switch out into another defensive mon to tank the attack you lost 50% health to throw off. garganacl in terms of its stats and typing is definitely not banworthy but the combination of salt cure destroying any wallbreakers or walls you want to switch in, and purifying salt making it immune to toxic, makes it very opressive and the only reliable ways to beat it are to make multiple predicts to safely bring a very specific wallbreaker in without taking salt cure, or to deliberately lure it with a surprise grass knot or something similar, and the game would be better without it in my opinion

[@victorlinares4137]

I feel like anything bulky with sub/covert cloak walls it hard. Its actually just set-up for my substitute gholdengo with leftovers.

[@BeeBwakka]

This just goes to show how broken the status immunity abilities are more than anything else

[@chester1882]

Considering how oppressive Waters have been, how Ghost is still one of the best offensive types and Ghouldengo is also tough to beat - I think Garganacl is part of the glue that keeps OU from tearing itself apart ala Gen 5.

[@1314Bn]

Keep in mind Pokémon with magic guard can thwart common garganacl movesets. Though obviously as of now, magic guard (Pokémon with magic guard) is not yet available.

[@utopias187]

As soon as clef comes back garg is gonna lose a lot of usage

[@1peidu]

They really gave a Pokémon the effect of G-Max Volcalith and said "Yeah this is fine". Like this mon paired with intimidate single handedly makes fat something to watch out for on VGC.

[@whatamidoing725]

Id say on its own it can be dealt with as long as you have like say a special attacker or a fast physical mon after knocking it down to low hp. But the problem is that its defenses can be assisted with its teammates that can come in easily if those arent already dead before you try to kill nacl, hes a cog in a machine but a major part

[@CodyTroutman]

Finally someone pronouncing it right, knew I could count on Freezai

[@rockowlgamer631]

I like the fact that Garganacl is getting spotlighted, most Rock types usually don't hold weight to Tyranitar (at least from what I can tell, I don't play comp). Plus it's funny and ironic that the salt pokemon is the one making people salty. One way they could nerf it is to discontinue the salt cure effect when Garganacl switchs out.

[@rayraywa]

I missed these videos. I think it shouldn't be banned, but I do think eventually Tera should be re-suspected for tera-types to be disclosed ahead of time for each mon. That makes things much easier for this mon and many others that have been banned already.

[@MayHugger]

No, we don’t need to keep trying to have restrictions on a generation’s gimmick.

[@wolfetteplays8894]

@@MayHugger true… like, if you have to use cheats to play it, then what the heck is the point? Like, revealing Tera types can give the opponent a free counter

[@zannax351]

​@@wolfetteplays8894 revealing tera types is not a cheat, it amounts to a gentleman's agreement between players to just tell each other their tera types. Besides, the official vgc format operates with open team sheets where not only tera type but also entire movesets are known to both players, so I think it starts to say something when even the official pokemon competitive format realizes that unrestricted terastilization is too much. I feel like its only inevitable until a re-vote some point down the line makes open tera types a thing and frankly I'd be happy if it lets previously banned pokemon back in ou, or honestly just gives us more data to work with in regards to dealing with terastilization tiering policy.

[@utopias187]

@@zannax351 below 1500 take

[@dribble909]

​@@utopias187below 1300 take

[@tfx9223]

4:50 Lando-Tusk on the right

[@UltraCboy]

Garganacl has been one of my favorite Pokémon to use in Gen 9 (mainly in DOU), it’s saved my ass in more games than I probably deserve.

[@deadlypandaghost]

I'm glad we are allowed 1 good defensive mon.

[@paxpacis2]

Garganacl taught me about one of the most toxic strategies ever. Terrestalize into Ghost and use Curse. Together with Salt Cure that just kills any tank

[@theunease5541]

As a casual player I was a little surprised to see Salt Cure is actually getting played and is actually really good. Most of the moves like that are fairly niche. Also Garganacl being one of the worst defensive types but still being as good as it is shows how good it is, but maybe if (probably when) tera gets banned it will drop in usage.

[@陳嘉宇-y4q]

He's like the second defensive rock type in the history of OU since Ttar

[@PKMN649]

I mean the other residual damage moves deal half the damage and are trapping moves and also the residual damage doesn't stay after you seap out which is honestly kinda crazy

[@Musasensei1674]

tera wont get banned,even if it get banned we need to wait 2-3 months more..for home release

[@Transcedant]

there aren't other moves like salt cure. other residual damage moves end when the user switches out, salt cure doesn't.

[@blazechaos212]

@@Transcedant Wait, really? I thought Salt Cure ends when you pivot and the other moves trap you anyway.

[@issacmarrujo563]

Garganacl was one of my favorite designs of PALDEA, glad I found this video to support it

[@supremeking1730]

Even without Covert Cloak, there are solid ways to deal with Garg. Most defensive mons get ruined by tricking a choice item onto them, and Garg is no different, and it's not like OU doesn't have a decent Trick user with Rotom Wash in the tier. Also, Choice Band Meowscarda has a 44% chance to OHKO a standard IronPress Garg from full with Flower Trick unless Garg terras out of its grass weakness, and that's without having to terra into grass for more power, so even if Garg survives, it has to switch out or get KO'd. Not saying Garg isn't still something you need to take into account when teambuilding, but there are checks and pokemon that can straight-up beat it.

[@Kasaaz]

I think that whenever there is a threat you have to account for that is very different from the other threats, people freak out. Like if you arranged all threats around the edge of a circle, based on how you deal with them, it would be the furthest from the other threats. That's why there's this dissonance where newer players need to do something very different from what they want to be doing to deal with it.

[@Kasaaz]

I don't know if this weird mental circle makes sense to most people, but it's how it looks in my brain.

[@singingcrow439]

I started to use covert cloak clodsire to deal with Garganacl. Salt cure's low BP means clod takes little damage even without phy. Def investment and can handle body press decently as well, unaware negate any curse or iron defense shenanigans, and clod even has a stab super effective earthquake to hurt gar back so that it can outlast in the recover war they sometimes get into. Of course, I've seen a few tera flying gar that definitely counter this. But overall, it's a good stopgap while not completely wasting the item just for one pokemon. Special attacks can't status clod anymore (most notably freeze), and most importantly, dragapult and ghoulengo shadow balls can't break through with Spe. Def drops.

[@Dr_Philliam]

I think that most Garganacl sets are easily checked by running one covert cloak. And I'm surprised myself but covert cloak overall isn't even bad outside of checking Salt Cure. I do prefer it on an unaware mon to completely shut down anything Garga tries to come up with. I did see a weird-ish Garganacl set that was focusing more on its offence to prevent being screwed over by covert cloak.

[@gregorymirabella1423]

It'll be funny to hit it with toxic from a neutralizing gas wheezing once it comes back.

[@Sonix07pr]

Garganacl is one of those mons that while isn’t broken, genuinely makes the game worse. It’s not unbeatable, but so incredibly unfun to play against.

[@falcon9213]

It basically feels like a buffed up Toxapex. If covert cloak was around with scald, you bet people would also be using it as anti-meta for toxapex scald burns so I feel like that argument holds little merit. Its simply that covert cloak is around in a time where secondary effects on moves have mostly been cut from movepools drastically and so using it for salt cure feels gimmicky. On another note I personally don't find this much different from Toxapex and Blissey using shed shell in gen 8 to specifically counter heatrans magma storm. When home comes and we get more options I think we'll see alot of changes with garg. The main one being Urshifu-RS who always forces garg to tera water as CB surging strikes guarantees a KO on the rock type and even with tera fairy its a 2HKO.

[@Tejroe]

I think we have to stop banning so many Pokémon before Home comes out, a lot of wallbreakers are gonna be released like Nidoking whose Earth Power merks Garganacl

[@kokorikopi]

Garg isn't overpowered I don't think, but "Should you be forced to run a middling item to counter Salt Cure" is a valid question to pose. Is there anything else Covert Cloak consistently covers? If Home transfers aren't wiped, I could see it becoming more mainstream to block Scald burns.

[@cartergamegeek]

It stops a lot of the weird Speed Control things. Icy Wind has always been a good surprise to drop Speed. Or a few other moves used more for the effect than damage. Fake out not Flinching is a big deal. Even without Scald you need to think about move like Rock Slide and Iron Head. Because you ignore the effect a ton of moves are not as easy to give you an RNG surprise. Scald is likely not coming back but I feel people are sleeping are ignoring some of the most random things. Flamethrower has the 10% Burn so even little things like that becoming 0% is a big deal.

[@JDLong006]

​@@cartergamegeekalso only 1 Pokemon even has Scald as a learnable move

[@kokorikopi]

@Giwrgos Petrou i said IF HOME TRANSFERS AREN'T WIPED. Fucking READ.

[@cartergamegeek]

@@JDLong006 I know that. I said even without Scald. It was removed as a TM and it only learned by Volcanion.

[@bradensmith8682]

Also, if Garg is in any format that has Magic Guard mons, it'll be taken less seriously.

[@kaialva6821]

Make this a series, overpowered or overated

[@RocketPropelledMexican]

I can't believe pokemon collabed with Donkey Kong and now DK in a pyramid cosplay is taking over OU

[@RaventhortheWarrior]

Garganacl just feels like the most offensive parts of ferro and toxapex. It's bulky to all hell, has consistent chip, and has an ability that makes it require dedicated team slots to beat. Its like dondonzo, if you dont have something to deal with it, it becomes, somehow, a defensive sweeper. Plus it inherently has play against water counters. I don't think it's banworthy on a power level because it doesnt have the recovery that gen 8 toxapex had, but it's not fun to play against. If tusk wasnt so easy to splash into any team I'd have more issue but I never feel sad having to have tusk.

[@DoctorProfessorDai]

I fought a ranked battle where I had my Dragonite up against an opponent's Garganacl. I felt certain I was going to have to forfeit, because I didn't have anything that could outright break through his Garg, and he was doing quite well with sub/recover. I chose to see how far I could go, and was able to outlast recover whilst dragon dancing and finally broke through with Earthquake. Honestly, Garg is rough, but I don't see it as an overencompassing issue.

[@WolframYouTube]

Garganacl kinda makes me happy Toxic isn't a TM anymore

[@AveragePearEnjoyer]

Its really strange how gf decides that pex is too op, so they nerf it in the same breath that they introduce something even worse. Same with weavile.

[@sonimatic]

Garg is not as bad as Toxapex used to be

[@AveragePearEnjoyer]

@@sonimatic nah, garg is stronger than gen 8 pex in a vaccum, but power creep shifts it back.

[@moebro101]

You all forget that garg is supported by 5 other mons or it can single handedly support 5 mons. If you can break through him on the special side, the opponent will be able to switch to a specially defensive tank or something with resistance/immunities to his weaknesses. Basically if you don't have toxic or do more than 50% damage on it, it will beat you. He whittles you down with salt cure and can protect + recover sit on most anything. It's mons like him, corvinite, and toxapex that I can't seem to care enough about competitive Pokemon. It's not about outsmarting or skill, it's about reusing the same strategy over and over and playing safe to win.

[@robertoalexandermendezmore408]

Now imagine that the status effect inmmunity also happend with clear body

[@vanesslifeygo]

I'm struggling more against Skeledirge instead of Garganacl. Garganacl is a good casual player killer, but experienced players are quite used to it.

[@vladimirvladimirovicmajako1221]

I do not think it is overpowered, but I wish that Salt Cure had some other counterplay rather than switching out. Maybe Rapid Spin/Defog or some types that are not affected by the secondary effect.

[@darthhydreigon820]

covert cloak is counterplay... but shoving it on random mons just to be good vs it is kinda a stretch

[@iamthekulture3822]

Casuals UNITE! Big Stall can’t take us all

[@middleofthebarrel]

I just think salt cure should be a status move, not also an attack. That would balance things out

[@CountGremlin]

Still immune to taunt cause of Purifying Salt

[@middleofthebarrel]

@@CountGremlin yeah, I was thinking of Magic Bounce - since Garganacl is still affected by Salt Cure regardless of its signature ability?

[@griffs_]

@@CountGremlin purifying salt doesnt work like that, it only blocks status effects like poison and burn, you're probably thinking of Good As Gold

[@13kevyaga31]

At long last we have a good answer for the best walls being steel and water

[@zacherytaylor]

Glad someone says Garganacl correctly

[@carlwheezer623]

Garga-NACI

[@Squirtle_Squad_Supremacy]

Joey says it wrong on purpose

[@raichnl330]

Gar GA na cl

[@connorhamilton5707]

@@carlwheezer623 Garga-Salt

[@malcolmmorris7367]

Seeing its success makes me mad for all the other failed defensive Rock types from generations past. Still salty Aggron couldn't hack it in higher tiers. I loved that mon.

[@crocs_n_socks]

I'm just happy that we finally have a good defensive route 5 rock type.

[@1BlueYoshi]

I wouldn't actively call for a Garganacl ban, but if it did end up banned you wouldn't hear me complaining lol

[@Spenstaple]

My favorite thing to do against a Pokémon that has a substitute, is to terastilize into my ghost type and use curse. Curse goes right through substitute and hits every Pokémon. Use recover afterwords and just keep on playing!

[@peepoweird]

You really should've spoken about the fact that Garganacl is not only a top tier threat on defensive teams, but also to (against) defensive teams. Its Salt Cure shenanigans can very easily dismantle Stall teams that aren't prepared for it by putting them through hazard and Salt Cure chip and forcing them to burn their Recover PP. This is made worse by the fact that Water and Steel are both the best defensive types and the best defensive tera types (save for Fairy) right now, meaning that Garganacl straight up turns defensive Water/Steel Tera into a mistake and a liability, laughs, and leaves. Before Walking Wake entered the meta, Garganacl was probably the biggest threat to Stall teams lol

[@capnbug]

i still love how the name works both ways gargasalt and garganacl

[@TheWonkster]

Good, it's about time we had a good defensive pure rock type

[@aMartin315]

im just thinking of that guy who called him jargancel

[@thanyou]

Unfun to fight, but that's never been inherently ban worthy

[@Slimeonian]

I seriously can’t wait for the dlc so all the banned Gen 9 mons can have some competition

[@TwoHeadedMeerkat]

Honestly, I think Salt Cure is the least of my worries when fighting Garganacl. It's really just a minor factor that makes fighting it all that more frustrating, since the overabundance of Skeledirge, and its buddy Clodsire means that setup sweepers, which would ordinarily be a death sentence for a Tera-Garganacl have to constantly be worried about it Salt-Curing them and then switching out and wasting the effort already done, while either Skeledirge gets a free Torch Song, or Clodsire starts laying down hazards or Toxics whatever I switch out to. Now look, I know "fun" isn't exactly the point of Competitive. It's to win. But for god's sake, what's the point of winning if you either have to subject yourself to headbutting this pile of salt-bricks until it eventually runs out of Recover PP, or runs out of allies to hide behind? And I don't think Covert Cloak is a Garganacl counter. It typically runs Body Press anyway so it's not a sitting duck, and even with Covert Cloak, it still doesn't help me _knock it out,_ particularly when having Covert Cloak means Choice Bands/Specs/or Life Orbs aren't an option

[@TheFuriator]

Your vids are great, fr :)

[@im_happily_sadd3730]

Garganacl, from my experience, isn’t overpowered by any means but can definitely be frustrating to deal with, considering that it has reliable recovery, one of the best abilities it could ask for, and the fact that it can setup stealth rock repeatedly throughout a game. It’s especially annoying when it has protect to scout out your moves (even worse if you’re choiced) and gain additional leftovers recovery. It’s nice that you can easily force your opponent to terrastalize it and make playing around it much easier but it requires a lot of orchestrated plays and a good team which I assume is why most casual players struggle with it and find it broken

[@absolutetrash7880]

I like Garganacle in terms of using it, it's a great defensive mon for my more aggressive teams, at the same time I can understand why people would want it gone, it threatens pretty good dmg and is super hard to kill, the biggest argument for keeping it is that it keeps the tier from crumbling from many offensive threats, if you remove it some random mon might now be too OP, either way I'd be okay if it was banned or if it stayed

[@celinewildenburg3160]

This was one of the pokemon that gave me nightmares at the last tournament i went to. (Now i'm gonna use gastrodon)

[@lourencopopp3444]

Arven's Garganacl gave me so much trouble on my casual run. I was avoiding overlevelling and terastalyzing, so that thing was nearly unkillable.

[@princex-synth]

Pokémon: *gets introduced in gen 9* Comp singles: “ban it”

[@NoteofLuck]

Both Garganacl and Dondozo being modernized versions of CurseLax is a little refreshing to see in the meta. From what I've seen in SPL, they're quite opportunistic, but pretty much every player who used either Pokémon has found an opening that let them shine, especially if that opening was in the endgame. Garganacl's Salt Cure is a dream come true for players who love semi-stall. It moves Garganacl into a comfortable position a little too easily for my liking, but I'm not convinced that it's a broken move.

[@giratinaorigin1431]

As someone who's relatively casual compared to higher up players. Aka I'm kinda bad at the game, I'd say a ban isn't warranted. Sure, it's got an amazing defensive profile with its stats, ability, and access to recover. Plus being able to terastalize to switch its defensive type, it's even better off in that regard. However, I'll point at Toxapex in gens 7 and 8. When it had pre nerf regenerator, scald, knock off, haze, etc., but wasnt banned. Pex activates my fight or flight response when I see it, but it wasn't an unmanageable threat. Just a fat wall to you had to get through and account account while team building. Much like gargancl. Tl;Dr: No, garg doesn't need to be banned.

[@Radar_of_the_Stars]

Casuals are only anti-ban until a good defensive pokemon shows up, but I have been solidly anti-ban with very few exceptions for the last two gens

[@KeterHirameki]

Reason to not ban Garganacl: "Well, it's not impossible to beat"

[@cyan6406]

Mold breaker Sawk holding a cloak with taunt, block, toxic and close combat.

[@bandiberry]

I like to use tera ghost garganacl - for curse, you can essentially sack garganacl for a beast thats hard to beat , plus you can use it to set up defense and attack

[@Maconviking]

At this point everything is in the conversation about being banned. My faith in this meta game is low. But yeah let’s ban anything even remotely usable.

[@alexdrake4081]

I remember seeing a video saying that the covert cloak can become more viable and not just a anti garganacl item like vs Heatran, infernal parade typhlosion and Sneasler

[@alexdrake4081]

@Giwrgos Petrou yes, so far, once home releases we will see otherwise

[@Nachosaurio167]

What do you say guys? Nerfed in gen 10 or a new pokecounter will appear?

[@amberhernandez]

Gargle is just slightly pushed in a few ways: - Its stats are just a bit better than Ferro's as a defensive mon - Its residual damage move deals damage _after_ Garg leaves the field rather than trapping the opponent in, but that's not a worthy trade-off imo. 1/8th (or conditionally 1/4) HP is just a high number to take every turn, even after Garg has fainted. - Immunity to burn, paralysis, or poison would be a niche but decent enough ability, but all three is just absurd. Unless you nullify its ability somehow, Garg will never get status chipped, and that's been a key to breaking defensive mons in the past. - Add to Purifying Salt a built-in resistance to Ghost-type moves, and you can play around any Choiced Goldengho or Dragapult with Protect. It's never a fully passive Pokémon in this regard. - BONUS: Skeledirge has to Sub + Torch Song spam vs. Garganacci, which will be resisted _unless_ Garg Terastallises into Fairy-type. SubSong dirge also can't 1v1 Garg with Earthquake unless you specifically run a resist Tera to that one move (and thus make your set generally worse). - For offensive teams, you absolutely _must_ do 75%+ in a single hit to Garg, eat the Salt Cure AND survive the 25% residual damage before you can attack it again, and hope they don't switch out (which they will). The salt brick is just so good at forcing whatever position it wants. Any one of these factors would make Garg a great mon in its own right, but all of them is just a _bit_ high on defensive power creep for my tastes. Maybe that's just me, though.

[@ShotgunHunter97]

Covert cloak isn't solely for garganacl it helps out with so much more You'll never get spdef dropped by shadow ball, paralyzed by thunder, poisoned by sludge bomb, trapped by magma storm, flinched by fake out, the list goes on

[@v.i.pflame7607]

I think its annoying to deal with, but its not too hard to deal with on the special side of things.

[@superiormeh]

I have 2 and a possible hard counters for garg, but I do believe that it has way more capabilities than most of the past-gen mons since the majority of past-gen defensive counter pokemon have been nerfed. I know recovery was "nerfed" but that just means that people can not be "gross" about it anymore and lower health options means reduces battle turns and time.

[@superiormeh]

And Garg counters past-gen defensive counter mons a lot. -Most Pokemon lost the move knockoff -They (possibly) need to have covert cloak -They need a ability that allows you to status him -They may not have enough HP to deal with taking on a full-health Garg -having to combat Garg late in the battle -teratype options Garg is a Pokemon that you have to plan for. It isn't a pokemon for the average player to go against. I can totally understand a ban and placing it in ubers. I probably would vote on this due to his difficulty level and ability to wall entry-level players

[@gordoteton9830]

i entered thinking it should be banned, now i know covert cloak exists

[@gordordf1091]

I love how he pronounces garganacl differently every time he says it

[@jamesmattila-hine1133]

I still think salt cure should stop working when you switch out garganacl.

[@Dorya_Ora]

Agreed

[@karywho]

If the council finds something annoying > ban if the players find something annoying > get good teehee

[@keksauce]

Do we have an official date for Home? If not, then we might as well suspect test this thing. Wouldn't hurt to see how the better players feel about it

[@wolfetteplays8894]

Tomorrow. The servers are under maintenance now, and the timing lines up with being in “the spring.” Either that, or it’s coming out in another week or so: all I know is, it won’t be too much longer.

[@kenshiro8984]

if garg ends up being banned in the future, it would be the first rock-type to ever become an official Uber pokemon (bar Arceus-Rock, obviously)

[@BlockBlazer]

It's kind of funny how every time you say Garganacl's name you say it different each time.

[@zombiejetpack]

I use my own Garganacl set of Salt Cure, Body Press, Protect, Recover with Fighting tera that works really good.

[@johnlienhart2717]

Nicknames are so much fun. Johan Liebert vs ADAM SANDLER