The GD Rating System Is Garbage

Final video of this kind, then Twitter can stop crying. I've kind of noticed over time that I have taken each topic that I wanted to cover in order from least frustrating to the most. This topic is where I became the most emotional when originally writing the script and I had a lot of things that I wanted to say but I had to restrain myself. With this video I am providing a replacement system for the current rating system as it has plenty of problems right now. Whether they are willing to embrace this new system or considering changing their current one is up to them in the end.
Music used:
Bloodborne Soundtrack - Ryan Amon, Tsukasa Saitoh, Michael Wandmacher, Yuka Kitamura, Cris Velasco, Nobuyoshi Suzuki
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Elden Ring/Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice Soundtrack - Yuka Kitamura, Tai Tomisawa
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Penumbra Trilogy Soundtrack - Mikko Tarmia
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[@Stormfly]

A couple of things I want to correct and state. First of all, other than the bit with Rivalsa where I will admit I went overboard, stop taking these things and the levels I showcase as personal attacks. Much like I had to iterate in the GD Art Criticism video, they are levels to showcase that other people have linked to me in reference to what I discuss. I don't care what the level is, I don't care who made it, I wanted something to showcase and that's it. Just because your level may have been demonstrated here, it doesn't suddenly mean I'm saying your level is garbage or that you're a terrible creator. It may follow a trope that I state has been repeated countless times but that doesn't suddenly make it a bad level or mean that I am roasting the creator's abilities. Don't put words in my mouth. Secondly, throughout the entire trilogy of videos of this kind I've been told repeatedly that I sound aggressive throughout all of it. I suppose that's fair, I raise my voice with some hints of frustration here and there. But I'm not mad or furious when voicing this. You have to remember that for most of you, this is the first time you hear me in a somewhat aggressive tone when voicing a video for majority of it. You've heard my story-telling voice now for the past 2 years since I introduced my voice properly to the community. To suddenly hear me express in different emotions throughout an entire video is probably going to be really alarming. But to put these three videos simply, let's just say that these are thoughts I've had in my head for years and it would appear that majority of people seem to share them. Some of my close friends didn't end up agreeing with all of them in the end and that is perfectly fine. And finally, as I've already made clear in the description, you won't see more videos of this kind. This was a one-time thing and I have no interest in keeping it going, I've said everything I wanted to say. I did end up seeing some people saying that I'm milking for attention with these videos which is pretty tone-deaf to think if they were to look at my actual KZbin catalogue but rest assured, I really don't see myself going down this route of content again. Even if it wasn't me who had made these videos, this community really doesn't handle situations like these well and the reactions I managed to provoke proves that.

[@slypenir]

Shouldn’t need to comment this, people need to know this stuff is trash

[@addisonjudah]

Issues or mindsets that are this deeply embedded in a community are near impossible to fix. I commend you for trying your best and maybe changing the way people think

[@itzsanti7503]

I'm glad you spoke your mind Storm, as it gives people like me who share the same thoughts as you a voice and a chance to be heard by the large majority who either cause the problem or do nothing to fix it I'll admit, the first time I saw the art criticism video, I was happy someone finally said what I wanted to say for so long

[@darkmooshroom5172]

This is exactly how I feel with my levels… thank you for making this

[@RetrOHeaD5805]

This doesn't justify the fact that your whole video is contradiction and hyprocrisy.

[@eggstatus5824]

Most veteran GD players thinks the exact same way, it's just that stormfly actually has the balls to make this video

[@Anxmaly666]

nah even newer players like me think like this too 😂

[@eggstatus5824]

@@Anxmaly666 good to know

[@AkiDasherr]

​@@Anxmaly666same

[@p4tchPL]

i started 3 months ago and this is actual shit

[@Periwinkleaccount]

@@p4tchPL What do you mean?

[@itzsanti7503]

I like the fact that people didn't like generic levels at first, but end up making them just to get a rate The very definition of "you've become the very thing you swore to destroy"

[@murlock-_razvedchik]

You know, people that dont like generic and people that build it is different (+ all moderators building generic levels hahahahaha)

[@stretcho4642]

my first rate is called acid II so luckily that didnt happen to me

[@mxarmada225]

Agreed

[@laprueba6521]

why do you like that?

[@thatoneguy9582]

@@stretcho4642 where’s acid 1

[@Geomaniac]

the way demons are rated makes me feel bad for creators who create demon levels. so much more effort usually put into them just to get shat on by bias and a shitty system. should’ve just stuck to the simple “send to robtop” thing :l lack of communication is also a thing that they refuse to change. so demon levels usually never get told if its good enough or not

[@poketrainerjames7246]

Yes, just like diabolic clubstep

[@thebunGD]

I think the demon system works like normal levels now after 2.2

[@Geomaniac]

@@thebunGD good

[@JWhitePWC]

i live for your GD rants, Stormy

[@1MadJack1]

Me tooooooooo

[@DestroyerMax14]

Haha same 😂😂

[@emrechousein1007]

me tooo its so emotional and He is saying the truth and facts

[@icerod]

sameeeeeeeeeeeeee

[@amcodd]

Same

[@LastPrismAlex]

i personally love the simple idea of levels just getting automatically rated once a set number of mods have sent them there's tons of cases where 20+ mods send a level and it just never gets rated, without an explanation if Rob trusts these people and personally chose them as mods, why do things like that happen? a third of your entire team of 90+ people are fine with a level being rated, but you didn't like it, so it just won't get rated? do you really care that much? Rob has a system to see the average rates mods send, and he uses that data to rate levels, so why not just add an automatic system that takes those averages and auto-rates a level if 15+ mods have sent it? it would save him A TON of time to work on other more important stuff plus, creators don't know how many mods have sent their levels, something as simple as the osu! interface showing "7/15" would be amazing, or if a level gets rejected by Rob, let the creator know so they stop trying to get it rated it's heartbreaking to see creators wait and wait and wait without actually knowing if Rob saw the level or not, just make that visible to the creator, at least let them know if it was rejected

[@timmydadog]

thats true, and even worse is that if you have no connections with the gd community, your level wont be rated, even if its rateworthy

[@Anxmaly666]

yeah this issue is really bad and i hope it gets addressed once 2.2 is finished

[@Brawlnana]

If multiple mods praising a level to get it instantly rated, it would also increase the amount of favoritism that goes into the process. I think this would only make the problem worse.

[@LastPrismAlex]

@@Brawlnana not really, if something, it would just get rate-worthy levels rated, generic levels would still get rated just like today, but it would allow for more people to experiment, knowing their level only has to be reviewed by a set number of mods to guarantee a rate without it feeling luck based getting 15 sends isn't too hard, and honestly, if 15 mods with a lot of experience, chosen by Rob himself like your level, there's no reason for it not to get rated, it's not like it affects anyone anyway

[@foxxdgd443]

im a creator with 2 levels 1 neonatic (got sent but never never reated) (spend 2 months on it) 2 nightlife (didnt even get sent bcs wulzy didnt like the gameplay, but got sent by other mod) (spend 2.5 months on it) and in both situations levels are just unreated i was nonstop waiting and i didnt get any resoults from flustration i quit the game for awhile "2/3 months" than i came back and it still hurts me to see a 6 star modern lazy level made in a day getting reated this video mostly shows the reason why my motivation for creating in gd is getting lower and lower

[@brettausten1259]

honestly, the worst thing about the rating system is that there’s an achievement locked behind it. Good luck getting that in a reasonable time.

[@brettausten1259]

@DanAppeared the only good thing about that achievement is that it isn’t a steam achievement, you just need 100 likes for a perfect game on steam, instead of too much time or a moderator friend.

[@ImTheWizard0]

Idk if I'll ever get a rated level no matter how good I think my levels are, and it is going to haunt me having one achievement on steam that I cannot get.

[@foxesgorawrgd]

@@ImTheWizard0 True. Rob only rates levels from well known creators. It's almost impossible to get a rated level if you have no cp.

[@Periwinkleaccount]

It also motivates people to make cheaply made, low effort, generic modern levels that you see all the time just to get an achievement.

[@foxesgorawrgd]

@@Periwinkleaccount Im a modern creator myself. But I think of fun ways to use my creating skills :)

[@Lunaticboi956]

FINALLY SOMEONE CALLS OUT THE DAMN PORTAL SPAM THING. I'm working on a collab right now, and on at least a couple occasions, had to tell people to redo a part or had to clean up the part myself. People are obsessed with portals to an unhealthy degree, and if you ask me, levels don't really "feel" anymore. Electroman Adventures and Blast Processing are two of my favorite levels in the game, for a good reason. Each part in both levels stands out on its own, and feels like an adventure of its own. Modern levels don't have that. Every level feels like a blob of clicks. Recently, I had to help someone fix a collab cause there were so many clicks that a million transition problems and bugs that I had to clean up, and I mean with no exaggeration, that my part and the first part in the level were the only ones that truly fit the music instead of having clicks for the sake of it. People don't like change, I understand, but some people have lost sight of what matters. Modern levels have no soul I swear

[@64bitmodels66]

People need to understand these are gamemodes and not orbs. When every second of the level has a portal that changes the game mode, all you do is make the level hard and frustrating to play, and not memorable either. Gamemodes need to last at least 5 seconds because that's the amount of time when you can actually flesh a section out and give it gameplay depth and memorabilia. People remember the wave part from nine circles because it was so long and so hard. Same for the windy landscape dual parts. Can't say the same for any part in Insane Techniques. (I love the song that level used, why was it wasted on such an awful demon)

[@7cordrom378]

All of this is completely based on how good the level is made

[@CoingamerFL]

I personally don't think it's that bad... in demon levels. Demon levels are supposed to be harder so putting fast-paced and quick-changing gamemodes on 3x speed or 4x speed is pretty reasonable. Of course, doing it during the entire level is another story. I have done parts like that in levels before, but I try to occupy maybe 20% of the probably minute-long level with it, not half the damn thing.

[@bettercalldelta]

I thought I was the only one who felt like the official levels or really good rated levels (especially ones in 1.9 and earlier) feel like some sort of adventures

[@staringcorgi6475]

It’s a thing that died with 2017 only the shitty creaters still do it

[@azivine7]

One thing you forgot to mention: Most players who make levels are completely ignored. Which in most cases is a good thing. But for some incredibly lame reason, if you're not popular or if you're just another average player/creator, there is absolutely no chance they will EVER see the fruit of their creation. I bet there are several creators out there making some extremely good and fun levels but have zero recognition for it just because the moderators and the developers never take the chance to explore potential. In fact, the only way I personally can imagine getting a rated level is a level request stream. Also, minor detail but the entire rating system is almost entirely luck-based for unknown creators (like me and my friend).

[@moonl1314]

you have my support!

[@paradiseoctagon21794]

I agree, I made a level that I spent 29 total hours making in the editor and it only got played 16 times. That's it. It didn't even get a difficulty rating either.

[@samloredescarregado1755]

i remember of spending weeks trying to get atleast a star rated, or likes, but no matter my effort i won't get this hell damn achievement

[@bluex6095]

I spent over 250 hours in the editor creating an verifying a level just to have it only get 30 downloads…I just wanted little bit of recognition I don’t care if it get rated but I swear it is so insulting to just pour your soul into a level just to only get 30 downloads while some of the most low effort crappy levels that are identical to each other which is basically 90% of the featured tab get rated + 10,000 downloads…

[@SUPRIzEi]

I miss levels that look like 1.9. They're all just filled with glowy moving stuff now

[@ElLucoso]

it all started on 2.0 where people started to abuse the hell of the moving trigger to make obstacles unexpectedly move for no reason other than "it looks cool" even Geo.Dom. and Deadlocked had movement for the heck of it, thank god RobTop learned to not do that again with Fingerdash, Dash, and hopefully Explorers.

[@KairozSX8]

In fact. GD rating system is weird, you can find levels unrated very awesome and worked, and some of the recent featured are just from the same creators. The recent featured are... Generic

[@ElysiumGD]

Again tho, I will say that making creative levels all the time is not easy, and after a while you would feel quite burnt out, but a lot of these levels are generic, and I think that's where the problem lies. We need both types, but we don't :(

[@jajasking9652]

Exactly, also, is soo biased as stormfly said in this video, alkali's levels are generic af, but still he usually gets Epic and wekly demon, is extremily biased, phonk town doesn't have stars, but a level that looks like a wulzy creator swap video got rated in less than 24 hours, is just Wild, also, hard and harder levels being over 60% of the rated levels of the game is just ridiculous

[@GGsquared]

Not to mention a lot of “Epic” levels I’ve seen are hardly worth of that title. This was especially the case in early 2.1 (example: “Lunar Abyss” by Frost) but thankfully it’s gotten better since then

[@KairozSX8]

@@jajasking9652 right

[@KairozSX8]

@@GGsquared it's a good example, why lunar abyss needs epic if has less deco than reanimation.

[@walterwhite3902]

Another thing I felt was worth mentioning is that there is absolutely no reason for Robtop to not want to implement this. While you touched on the Moderator side of things, and their desire for power that this change would strip from them, Robtop only serves to have more free time by having this weight lifted off his shoulder. Since it's already clearly laid out what changes would be made and how the new system would function, the only work Robtop would have to make are technical rather than logistical. For how much Robtop talks about his lack of free time and his immense devotion to getting out 2.2, I feel like he should be incentivized by both the community (The part that wants this change) and also HIMSELF to take some time off of 2.2 to implement the new system. Would give him a lot more time to work on 2.2 without the burden of having to rate/review levels alongside it.

[@NT-ct7sl]

Walter white

[@3k0o_x]

Walter white

[@ArShaftGD]

Walter white

[@SandboxerSandy]

Balter brown

[@thegameowl11]

Jesse Pinkman

[@censr]

the fact that it’s only 1 guy looking at dozens of levels a day, everyday, deciding which ones get rate sounds like absolute hell. I wonder why rob hasn’t appointed someone else to also handle rates. It was easy back then when the community was so small, but it can’t be like this anymore. Is it just robs plan to rate levels alone forever while coding the game?

[@GDNashit]

Janucha has an IRL friend who is a mod that's super shady about it. He once verified an insane demon "phantasmagoria" and asked the mod to send it/put it up for mod vote... but they refused, 2 weeks later the level was rated and the mod explained to him that they had lied about sending it to "not get his hopes up" Basically, if they told janucha they did submit the level for mod vote and the level remained unrated two weeks later, janucha would know that the mods rejected it. Yeah, you're not supposed to know if your demon was SENT TO ROBTOP OR NOT, which is a ridiculous lack of transparency I know something that I shouldn't know (The results of the voting on ONE demon) but speaking too much might get one mod involved unmodded simply because they were kind enough to be transparent, so I can't even speak on the manner even though I really wish I could. If that isn't the most shady stuff you've ever heard then I don't know what it is, the mods aren't transparent because they know that if they are NO ONE will like their conclusions (As shown by the one time Viprin decided to show the voting results for Abyss of Darkness on Twitter). This needs to change.

[@GDNashit]

@@gosog6159 from several experiences, you apparently aren't supposed to know if your demon gets rejected or approved by the mod team there's also inconsistencies, several mods shown me and others sending demons in-game but NEVER submitting a demon in the mod server (which is the actual system in place) so which one is it? are they just lying to me? do demons sent in-game even have the chance to get checked?

[@fawwe]

#RATERINGYPARACOSM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@JoicSeth]

@@GDNashit every mod I know definetly discloses if the level was sent, theres usually channels for it (even in most big discord servers)

[@thazmwr]

Fun lil fact, i was the ex-verifier for Phantasmagoria and i created the LDM for that level lol

[@GDNashit]

@@JoicSeth I don't think im clarifying this enough, this is exclusively for demons, by "sending to robtop" i mean knowing if your level was approved in the mod vote or not

[@Periwinkleaccount]

Another annoying thing that’s used in way too many featured levels is forced coins. The way coins should be put in a level is when the creator thinks “ooh, that’s clever, I’ll put a coin there!” But the forced coins just make it feel like the creator of the level finished the level, then thought “oh no, there aren’t any coins here, I HAVE to put coins here NO MATTER WHAT!” For absolutely no reason like they need to fill some kind of checklist where if they don’t put coins in, they’ll die.

[@qopw]

hence why i never put coins in my levels really. have never seen a cool spot. maybe just a me issue but i don’t want to force them.

[@Periwinkleaccount]

@@qopw That’s totally fine. Having no coins is better than having forced ones.

[@gavrolux409]

I'm currently making a level and adding 2 coins, one will be unlocked from 3-4 alternative paths and tricky obstacles keys that need to be obtained, the other is a hard timing, and I saw no place fit for a third coin so I didn't add one. Lots of creators these days "have" to add a third or a free coin in their level at the end or somewhere easy, not sure why but by no means should this be a necessity.

[@pocke_]

i think the thing i agree with most in this video is that experimentation seems to be disincentivized with the rating system. what i would like to call the "slop" of the awarded tab perpetuates itself -- the standards feel like they tend to reward homogeny, and anything outside of that homogeny is seen as not good enough for a rate, and creators that might otherwise make something original, meaningful, or personal are incentivized to feed the slop. because of this, i'm very puzzled that your proposed solution is to establish a set criteria (one which depends on the premise that levels can be objectively qualitatively evaluated) for rated levels. wouldn't that just perpetuate the issue and make the creators that are currently feeding the slop pump out levels that meet the bare minimum of that set criteria and also disincentivize experimentation?

[@brojaxx1]

Well established rules would likely take that to account, having a criteria of clear distinction from other levels. There’s no real indication as to what that might imply , but having moderators at the very least try to point out some personal argument as to why a level meets standards would go long way for the oversaturation in levels. Rules that can both suggest a level requires to be perfectly playable (referring to bugs, major skips, ect.) and requires a level to meet originality and complexity standards (properly defended by mods who are willing to care to give thought into that) will still result in ugly levels by any sort of personal preference you might have, but it wouldn’t be…. so incredibly boring as it is right now. It’s much better to have a set of subjective opinions as to why a level meets certain criteria than to subjective decide what makes a level “good” with no sort of guideline (and with these criteria I mean specifically originality and playability which I think no one wants to argue with them being essential in current day)

[@arb8881]

@pocke ^^^

[@comet_face]

you get it!

[@GS_geostorm]

u raise a good point but i cant rlly take this srsly if u arent gonna provide a possible rating system in response to what stormfly said, as this is just nothing more than pointing out a flaw

[@lexycat]

hi ponk

[@BrightyLighty_]

I was going to say "Why does Stormfly think flow gameplay is automatically bad?" but then I realized that I also hate flow gameplay. Why does it exist

[@notveryultraguy]

There's like 2 flow levels that doesn't suck and I can barely play the 2nd one

[@Anxmaly666]

its not a bad style. its the creators fault if its bad.

[@BrightyLighty_]

@@NostalgiaLoverxX constantly switching between gamemodes / parts with an excessive amount of portals

[@ruthkatz1998]

What is flow

[@noice8911]

You know, I’ve never understood why so many people have the same thoughts you do, but they don’t say anything about it. I’m talking about the people who have a voice as loud as yours. I’m glad you’re at least saying all of this, because this community honestly does not have enough people speaking out about it’s flaws

[@vscythe_]

people just don't have the words to explain and don't have as much reach as Stormfly has I suppose

[@b6oy1004]

everybody gangsta till he whips out boris johnson

[@llertt]

I've definitely had experiences with rating bias, even with levels that did get rated. I made a 7 star level once, which got rated in a single day, and got placed on the first page because why not. It fit the normal level trope. Although very brief, it got 40,000 downloads, a decent amount of attention, before being completely forgotten. On the other hand, I recently made a medium length insane demon, something which I thought maybe would draw in more attention. An unusual difficulty, with an unusual length, as well as a fascinating gameplay style. Because of the demon rating system, this level took over two weeks to get featured. Not only that, it was placed on the SIXTY SECOND page of the featured list. It might as well have just been rated, the feature rating was completely worthless. That placement was out of clear bias of some sort. This level, although it in my opinion deserves more attention than my 7 star level (look at how many 7 star levels there are), currently has a mere 15,000 downloads. It doesn't make any sense.

[@lucynaaa]

Whats up

[@whythehecknot5038]

Can you name the two levels? I'd love to check them out

[@llertt]

@@whythehecknot5038 the 7* is called Fidget, the 10* Chaotic Evil

[@whythehecknot5038]

@@llertt it's a crime Chaotic Evil wasn't featured higher, the gd community loves levels like this judging by the popularity of wherwin's Removed Submission

[@unamedzube7xb297]

I watched those levels and fidget is definitely better than whatever chaotic evil is

[@dezcubing5844]

Not enough people talk about how inaccessible the rating system is. Its extremely annoying, difficult, and time wasting just to get mods to see your level. You have usually have to wait an indefinite amount of time for a level request server to open requests and even then it could still take a while for mods to see because of not reviewing any levels (i know sometimes people are busy but it only takes at most 5 minutes to review a level). And lot of times mod servers dont notify you if theyve seen your level and decided not to rate it so you have to wait two months to find out your level wasnt sent instead of just immediately after theyve seen it. Its so complicated and terrible just trying to get mods to see your level.

[@dezcubing5844]

Not to mention the luck involved because robtop doesnt look at all the levels in the sent list

[@hello_hello569]

I love playing recently rated levels while listening to this and thinking "yeah, this is all correct"

[@CRIMSON_PLANET]

the way the mod/rate system works is what discouraged me from creating anymore. who would’ve guessed?

[@arb8881]

its your own issue that your motivation to create is for ratings

[@Shiba_73]

@@arb8881 why would i make a level that nobody will play and getting no recognition for my effort

[@robianny]

@@arb8881 arb, you're a gd mod, you'll get harassed in this comment section lol

[@gogbone]

@@arb8881 based arb

[@CRIMSON_PLANET]

@@arb8881 its not any better when i throw basically my whole heart into a level just to see less efforted levels get huge recognition and a rating from the game dev himself while mine gets jackshit

[@hi_am_disturbia]

This is just a plus concerning the osu! part you talked about. Pending only means a map is finished. It is still possible that a map that presents only 1 difficulty can be ranked. All it needs is that the map is well charted, and if it respect the other criterias, then 1 difficulty **is** in fact enough for your map to be verified. Amazing video as usual Stormfly. The more I watch your stuff, the more I wish levels looked like in the old versions of GD

[@biq5743]

the fact that this is moving despite it being about a game is genuinely impressive

[@Kakemancool]

Personally I see 2 ways of fixing this issue directly. 1) Create a standard of building in geometry dash and make it well known. Have it be something simple yet not too restrictive. An example would be that a level should be playable with minimal bugs. But who should come up with this? The community as a whole, maybe make a survey of sorts that gathers the opinions of many people that think about what makes a level good. It should be anonymous too. From there the general consensus of what we think makes an acceptable level will determine if a level gets rated or not. Maybe add a quality star rating that the whole community can pitch into. Say I give a level 5 stars (the best) and someone gives a level 2 stars (the lowest in quality) then the level gets an average star rating of quality that rob and ELDER MODS can take into account more than their own opinions. TLDR: add a specific list of basic standards the community can follow and put in a star rating (quality rating) system for each level so that bias from moderators or influencers isn't possible. This also takes out creator points, like mentioned in your vid. But levels would still show up in the featured tab like normal. 2) Don't enforce a standard of creating at all and let people make what they want with no reward. Maybe still keep the community rating (quality) system so levels are given the notoriety they deserve. Make a tab with the highest quality rated levels so they can be properly found and appreciated. Maybe mods can try to make sure levels aren't review bombed because of a hate raid from the community. Ironically, they would be the ones to stop any happenings of bias or targeted attacks. Both methods use a community driven rating system, not a system from a small amount of blindly picked people with biased inconsistent takes.

[@jfz468]

As an inactive demon creator, I wholeheartedly agree with everything being said here. It’s so demotivating to know that I basically have to fight just for my level to get noticed, and once it does it’s a gamble of even being considered to be rated or featured. I didn’t even create for CP, I did it because I want people to recognize my work as art that I put a lot of work into it. Most of my stuff is collabs, so it’s also annoying that those people I worked with don’t get that recognition either

[@apollo1493]

What are the names of your levels so I can play them?

[@jbsr]

I’m glad this is being discussed more mainstream now. I spent a really long time (26 months) making a solo-decorated level. I wanted to get a level out, while proving to myself I could get a featured level if I really tried, thus “freeing” me to make whatever I wanted. It’s a glow level but trust me when I say it looks and plays like nothing in the featured section at all. I released it back in may and it got send by one mod and obviously nothing happened. I can point out a couple levels released within two days of mine that were rated… I’m not an arrogant sort of person but you can tell they went through 1/20th of the effort I did. I don’t view myself as a victim of the system, this is just what happened to me.

[@Cobgd]

Same - some of my levels took hours to get rated while there are a few with 27 sends that aren't rated to this day

[@jbsr]

@@Cobgd my level only got one though, not sure how much that matters. It's very borderline star rate vs no rate too but borderline levels made by cp grinders who I won't name get the rate

[@teamkek3508]

Great video again, you're my favorite content creator, because each one of your videos is about a topic that should've been addressed a while ago, the same topics that made me play the game less and less. It's also great that you propose a solution to the problem, one that you truly believe in, and that you really care about this sort of issues. I'm so tired of levels that have nothing notable, have boring or bad gameplay, and rehashed decoration. The struggles of getting a rated level and playing featured levels have bothered me for years, to the point that I don't enjoy playing or creating, and again, it's great to hear an opinion that finally makes so much sense about the topic. I'll see you again in your next video.

[@viktorradevic1299]

I think levels should automatically be rated once enough people play and rate them. This could then leave the moderators with only sending the best levels to get featured and even if a good level get skipped, its no THAT bad.

[@DaShadow]

I'd put some more barriers on it. You need a certain like and playcount, aswell as a certain time spent in the editor and objects. If a level as a really high like to download ratio it can bypass some of these borders

[@MyNameIsMagnesium]

@@DaShadow Actually that’s basically the magic tab besides the like/play count requirement

[@UtibaOfficial]

As someone who has made maps for osu, I can say that the modding system is insanely good for both newer and elite mappers. One of the things that helps when it comes to wanting to rank a map is modding queues (a forum on the osu website anyone can access). These can be from fixing changes, general feedback, guest difficulties, or keysounding. I would say it’s a tiny bit biased because some people could be really popular or have connections, upload a map, and then get it qualified in the next few days. If you are a new mapper that time could take days or even months just to get it qualified. However, nobody really cares about it too much in the community since every map that is ranked mainly follows the rhythm of the music. There are a few slips that happen every so often, and a good example of this being the map Zan'ei by the mapper Lasse when it was ranked in early June of 2022. There wasn’t any map problems, but it completely broke the pp system, giving more pp than it should of. This has been sorta fixed recently due to a new rework that happened during the time of writing this comment. However it was mainly allowed because one of the people that worked on developing the pp rework allowed it to be ranked because he initially gave a bounty to whoever could rank a map with those patterns, and a rework was coming soon anyways to fix it. The map wasn't insanely bugged, but it gave around 1.75x the pp it normally would, so it wasn’t a huge deal. I do think the gd system should have something similar to the osu system as it would let people know what is allowed to be rated and what is not. Very good rant, liked it very much!

[@razzley]

Another thing that pains me is that hundreds of old well made 1.9 and 2.0 levels are entirely neglected from being rated due to robtop just straight up denying them rates and half the mod team thinks they arent rateworthy and refuses them sends, even though many of them are far more unique and experimental/impressive for their time compared to the shit they do send.

[@msm_12]

The first thing I want to say is that I generally appreciate it when people make videos with as much effort as this one to express their opinion. I can relate to almost everything said, however I disagree with a lot of it or think it wasn't put across in the right way. I think this whole video unfairly puts RobTop, Viprin and Pauze as well as the entire moderator team in a bad spot. The rating system certainly has its flaws, but that's nothing new at all, it's been that way for years. I was for a long time not at all enthusiastic about the rating system, until I looked more into it and realized that the RobTop and the moderator team makes a great effort to make it as right as possible for the community. All the moderators I know are great people who are excited about the game and eager to push the community forward and help. Of course, you can't speak of moderators in general, as they are all different people, but I think it's pretty unfair to blame things like this on the moderator team as a whole. RobTop tries as much as possible to rate levels the way the community wants them to be rated, which is why he wants as diverse a range of experienced players and creators from the community on the mod team as possible. The reason why Viprin/Pauze/etc. are mainly in charge of selecting newly promoted moderators is simply because they are very involved in the community and have a very good connection to him. RobTop actively tries to rate levels the way the community wants them to be rated. You can see that in the rating standards, for example, which have obviously changed over the last couple of years. Discretion is required for certain things in the moderator team, but they still try to create as much transparency to the community as possible. This can be seen, among other things, in the way the magic tab has been changed so that you can directly see the list of levels sent by mods. The demon rating system introduced last year was also created at the request of the community. The fact that the demon rating is anonymous is not a lack of transparency, but serves to protect the moderators. The team tries to please the community, but that is very difficult when different parts of the community want different things. In the end, it's almost impossible to please everyone. So I think your whole criticism is more a criticism of the community than a criticism of the rating system, because it's not the rating system that favors certain rates, it's the community itself that does it. There are a lot of people who want to gain as many creator points, downloads and likes as possible with as little effort as possible. However, we see this everywhere else as well, such as in the music scene in the charts. There you get to see just as much generic stuff than actually original and experimental. Most of the community's wishes the team actively tries to follow, but certain wishes also require changes that are far too big and would practically require changes in a new update. Before something like that can happen, RobTop has to finish 2.2 first. The idea of removing creator points certainly has its advantages, but it is also a great way to encourage creators to build more levels, which keeps the game alive. So it's easier to change the way creator points are handled by certain creators than to fundamentally abolish this system, and that's why I don't see this as a good solution. I don't deny that favoritism can be present in ratings, in the choice of moderators or wherever, but I don't see it as such a big factor as you describe. To that end, I'm sure it's something that takes place pretty much unconsciously and people aren't even aware that they may not have acted very fairly. I think it's good that you propose a solution based on the game Osu, where I also see some potential, but it requires huge changes that are simply not possible at the moment and could only be considered in the distant future. As I said before, this video unfortunately puts the moderator team and RobTop in a pretty bad light, which I don't think is fair given their efforts, and even though it brings some sort of proposed solution, the whole thing is very emotionally charged and thus brings drama rather than actually constructively changing anything about the issue. (This comment is in no way a hate comment and serves as constructive feedback. If I have said something wrong, please correct me and I am also happy to discuss).

[@liinnder]

Good comment

[@Mrmanxyz]

bad comment... all you're saying is that it's the creators' fault not the moderators fault. Some parts of this seem very aggressive towards users like Split72 and CrispyCroc... not that I have any constructive feedback lmao

[@CairoGaming]

my response to this is the entire legacy situation which I still dont know whats gonna happen with it cuz we arent allowed to know mod team shit so idk anymore

[@Prometheus_Alt]

Hey you're here! I was wondering what happened to legacy and why it didn't get rated despite clearly being feature worthy

[@thatsoupguy]

I actually think the rating system could be revamped in a more simpler way than osu! AND with existing code, only changing a little. So first thing that I would change is to actually change the creator leaderboard and the way you gain creator points. First, the three main rates - make them apply to what they are supposed to be Star rate - mass produced levels - No creator points, meant for star grinding Featured - a bit better levels, todays Epic levels, dailies, weeklies - Also no creator points, which is fine because you still get a sh*t-ton of downloads for being daily Epic - Actually good, creative and experimental but fun levels - 1 creator point The "mass produced" levels still deserve a place in the game, it's just that creators are rewarded too much for it. Removing the creator point reward will incentivize making epic-worthy levels. osu! proves that not gaining stats on creating levels doesn't mean that suddenly everyone will stop creating. The only ones who will stop were the ones who can't improve in the first place. I can bet that a lot of mass producers today can make actually good levels, it's just that they don't see a point, or find it less fun (because the payoff isn't better than getting featured). And then 2.2... Godlike and legendary - seems redundant, but if they are once in a blue moon and reserved for White Space like levels (good levels i mean, not the copies) then 2 or 3 creator points. (because it's really rare) This means that the creator leaderboards will suddenly only show people with epic rated levels (and above in 2.2), which is way better than ditching the leaderboard. Why? The motivation to create better levels. Suddenly, the "top" creator will actually BE a "top" creator because they will make a lot of levels that are epic worthy. Still not the best way, but MUCH better than the current system. With a simple change the focus will shift from mass producing levels to making actually good levels. Now, the way levels should be rated must also be changed, but that way already exists: Just apply the current demon rating system to levels that Robtop thinks that deserve epic and moderators will vote, meaning that they will be much rarer and playing epic rated levels would be actually fulfilling. The only problem with this is that the mods (or Rob) could just mass click yes on voting for epic, flooding the rating system with bad levels, or just generally having low standards. Imo, if they do that then they didn't even care for the game in the first place. These standards should be made ahead of time and should be transparent like osu! to at least minimize bias. Of course, this isn't perfect, but at least it's easy to code in game. The hardest part of this is applying the rules that were made to everyone, equally, but that problem will be present for ANY rating system that can ever be made. For those that think this will be "weird" to see, trust me, after a year with a changed system nobody would even remember the old one, and the ones that still somehow do will most likely be the ones who are littering the game with garbage levels today for some imaginary points and don't care for the quality of their levels. Also, for anyone that says that retroactively changing rates for old levels is hard - this is a problem for any new system no matter how much or little you change.

[@jajasking9652]

I'm totally with you, but, for fully work, there should be a system to Kick mods in case they basicly are rating levels that doesn't deserve stars or spaming yes to Epic for a lot of bad Demons levels, which would be basicly come back to the issues that the system has

[@Lunaticboi956]

saying that "nobody would remember the old one" is kinda a bold claim cause people STILL remember stuff from how it was in 2.0 and 1.9, but I kinda get what you're getting at

[@Conorator]

I believe that having a ton of extremely short 2-7 click gameplay sections in random game modes is called flow gameplay.

[@ueIl]

Creator Points used to be made for levels, now levels are made for Creator Points

[@RozzWasHere]

I disagree with 9:34. These gamemode changes are made without zero purpose. Usually if made by someone who knows what they are doing, changing the gamemodes are made to properly allow the icon to move according to the music. For example, a UFO moves more lightly and gently compared to spider. These gamemodes represent music in different ways. It's up to your imagination to execute the gameplay well and satisfying. It's an art

[@zynthesizer7905]

so u got it then made with zero purpose = braindead

[@gdnolife5002]

i think the reason demons are put through a vote is because bad demons get so much shit, eg. buff this. also if 5 star gameplay is bad it takes 3 attempts, but if demons have bad gameplay it can be actual torture. the mod team are probably sick of being abused for rating X level that some random doesnt like

[@Prometheus_Alt]

I think he wants a system where either all levels get voted on, or none do

[@boxoid5230]

imo it seems GD holds a way too high standard on level quality. like if you dont build something with above 40k objects that looks like Astral Divinity ur levels suddenly not good. iv seen so many ppl make genuinely good levels than they get shit on because of some minute shit that makes it bad for some half assed reason. “Oh the balancing isnt good the entire levels trash!!!” “Oh no theres too much glow!!!” “Theres no moving structures!!!” like i get needing a level to be good but fr ppl hold levels to way too high a standard.

[@skaroGD]

we didnt listen to virus when they tried to say this with battle of the shades

[@Countcomfortable]

Two solutions: -Change the Requirement for the Rating UFO so less people have stress about CP and instead get creative -Make The communal difficulty count as a rate, but only be Featured by robtop

[@ThePrimeYeeter]

the last 3 videos of yours are just gd community slanders at this point and i am loving it

[@ryanfagen8248]

What upsets me the most about all of this is the amount of time it takes to grind through all of these levels- even if you beat them all on your first try (which, by the way, good luck on that), it would still take some 500 hours just to beat all the 4-7 star levels in the game, meaning that stargrinding is practically dependent entirely on how much time you have on your hands and not how good you actually are at the game, the latter of which should be the main focus as I hope we can all agree. As such, I never take my LB position as a player seriously and just put my focus on beating harder and harder levels to improve my skill as much as possible, even if it means a lower star count overall, but it's not a decision I wanted to make, but one I made to ensure I could focus on hobbies other than GD while still continuing to play the game and improve at it regularly. So glad someone finally had the guts to bring this issue up; it's been bothering me for forever now and it only gets worse and worse as time moves on.

[@averylate621]

didnt robtop say himself he is a little bias towards rating? I mean he said he is more likely to rate a level of someone with creator points than someone without any points

[@NotXak]

The moderation system has always felt flawed to me as you NEED to have a level sent by a mod and featured before you get put into a special robtop tab that shows new levels by players with CP points. But the issue with it is that most of the mods do nothing and don’t accept requests so it massively limits the potential for rates of potentially well made levels

[@bhbjvgvfcgfcbvbbvhcfcgfc]

We should make a community hosted rating system like the demon or impossible list, where epic ratings for example actually get given out to memorable and unique levels like for example Cold Sweat or XO. (I wouldve listed some harder rated levels but I literally can't think of any, so what Storm said was right)

[@scubasteve6175]

No way this man just said xo could be up for epic rating haha. Other than that, this would be really cool i like this (:

[@AkiDasherr]

​@@scubasteve6175but shes in love with the concept As if were all just saw she imagined

[@qseryGD]

@@scubasteve6175it's krmal so of course his gameplay is strange but epic? yeah that's just bias because he's popular

[@qseryGD]

@@AkiDasherri memorized the whole song and still don't think the lvl should be epic.

[@grantwilliams2571]

​@@AkiDasherrWe're in love we just don't yet

[@GDBreadBoy]

robtop probably saw this, and removed the mod vote, to do just the bare minimum.

[@perrolocoyt]

So thats why list cool demons and huge realistic projects made by small teams are ignored by robtop but not a plastic level with a blinking furry at the start?

[@RealSaint18]

The game is basically over runned by furries basically

[@SeboBearBB]

I agree with this video, the featured levels list is so repetitive and boring, however the biggest controversy now is rate tidal wave.

[@TankishRBLX]

This sounds like the main character’s speech before the final battle

[@Geck]

I was very lucky to get a rated level but its very difficult, I spent years trying to get a rate before. The system is very bias and I have had friends who have just straight up quit the game because they couldn't get a rated level, its pretty sad. Also the only reason I clicked on this video was because I saw boris in the thumbnail lol.

[@BlueGravity-gj2pm]

I am so glad somebody finally said this. I stopped playing the game for like a year or so because so few levels were actually fun. Especially for somebody who can only beat easier easy demons as their hardest, there are so few good easy demons or good insanes. In fact, nobody makes insanes anyways and harder levels are so easy. The same levels do the same things over and over and over again and are so formulaic to the click.

[@jajasking9652]

Insanes are just usually levels that feels as hard as easy Demons, specially the 9* stars ones

[@GygX]

@@jajasking9652 and are extremely unbalanced and unfun

[@qseryGD]

shiver, retro circles, crescendo, and xstep v2 are some of my favorite easy demons, but crescendo and xstep v2 are thrown under the radar and seen as bad because they are old and have strange gameplay. shiver is seen as too easy, but it's gameplay has no moving objects or intense foreground visuals, which keeps it fun. retro circles is just another nine circles level, except it actually does smth unique with the style. there are so many fun easy demons, but people just quit on them or hate on them or just don't see them because of the pure biased comparison that comes with modern features tab and then levels made for people to enjoy with good deco but not in the way of gameplay. i wish these types of levels were made more often :(

[@HyperComet369]

Some moderators are so picky with star rates, honestly more levels should get them. It doesn’t matter since most the public wont even see your level.

[@IShardI]

Just to clarify, I made the level at 8:31 like a year ago, I was not good at building at all and idk how it got rated now. Still, I made that lvl for fun, not for it to be perfect or even rated, and I had no experience at all with creating at the time, I just made a mistake with a transition and didn't notice at the time, doesn't mean i'm a f*cking idiot tho.

[@chocolatemilkreal]

He’s blaming the system not the creators

[@liinnder]

At least you changed

[@robf1557]

Started creating in 2015 and have gotten 1 feature in all those years. I used to actively seek out mods to get them to send my levels and give me feedback if anything bothered them, just so I could get more creator points. You can imagine how fucking frustrating that was, having to listen to people that sometimes you didnt even like the levels of, tell you that your level isnt good enough when garbage levels get rated left and right. Luckily my days of distorting the original idea for a level into something "acceptable for robtop" are long gone and I now only build for myself, I dont seek out any mods, nor do I care about creator points. There are times when I do feel cheated because I know that my levels are NOT below the quality of 80% of the featured levels nowadays, and I take months to create so when my efforts result in 600 downloads and 30 likes, it can bother me a little (especially when I see one of those rated "made in 7 hours :D" type levels that look like the remains of a Taco Bell meal gone wrong). Still I dont want to stop creating, its become more to me than simply getting rates or even recognition, I just want to see how far I can improve and how my style is going to change over the future.

[@Fantander1]

I started creating in 2017 and I have no CP o_o

[@Anxmaly666]

I dont even make levels for creator points lmao

[@iicoffyii8387]

Bro... I thought the same thing about the epic rates... Sometimes I cant tell the diff between epics and features, so it instead feels like the spectrum kinda blended and the epic became the new feature.

[@huwdte]

Most 1.0 styled levels I see where it's just the 1.0 blocks and no real effects have way more interesting gameplay and way more interesting uses of the editor than I see in many featured levels

[@solarion13]

Finally someone makes a video on this who actually knows what they’re talking about. I’ve seen so many people criticize the rating system, rightfully so, but they all had personal bias and it was so painfully obvious in the way they spoke, and it was also pretty clear they didn’t really understand it either. Thanks for making this, I honestly agree with pretty much everything that was said

[@noodleshelf]

Wolarion

[@flocabGD]

I've got a couple of thoughts about some stuff you mentioned in the video, I don't have much to say about changing the rating system to something more like osu, as I still don't know too much about that game, and how the rating system works, but I wouldn't be opposed to a drastic change. Especially if change could come in a way that doesn't make moderators seem like the center of the universe, as way too many players/creators do things with the goal of becoming mod, and since there is no standards, application, or set requirements, this means they do everything to get mods to notice/ friend them, whether it's donating on their stream, or trying to get mod on their discord server. Imo, all the attention to the mod team really distorts the opinion of what being a mod should be about. It's sort of become a status symbol, rather than a way of giving back to the community. From what I saw in your video though, that does seem to be more of the case with osu, where there is a genuine application process, much more transparency, and much less about what friend group you are in. Also, this was a very small part of your video, but I see the whole too many people "create for cp" argument tossed around a lot as a reason to remove the cp statistic, and I pretty strongly disagree with it. While I do think it's a part of the incentive for a lot of the top creators, the fact of the matter is that most people just want their levels (and themselves) to get attention, and getting them rated is the best way to do that. There is nothing inherently wrong with this imo, it's how everything works on the internet. I just don't think removing the cp statistic would do anything to disincentivize making generic careless levels, as people would still do it to get the attention rather than the cp. Also I would like to mention that I don't think the attention the mod team gets is entirely undeserved. Most of the mods in the game are extremely talented at the game in some way or another, and obviously they get attention because of that, but it's still hard to deny the fact that the general community sees being a mod too much as a status symbol or form validation, which really just negatively impacts the whole system imo.

[@Jakalope_Circles]

The 1.9 private server has the perfect rating system in my opinion, it's very simple and very effective. 1.) Levels are sent to mods by players directly via an in-game sending system 2.) All levels are judged by mods and every level is decided on a vote, regardless of difficulty or quality. They are all voted equally, with the exception of Extremes, which have gameplay quality taken into account 3.) Level ratings are usually taken action on within the day upon a proper finalized vote

[@jdjGSHBFjh68827]

agreed. tldr all you really need to do is make mediocre designs, slap glow on it, then verify. bam, you have a star worthy... "good level." the standards of the community today dissuades actually good, talented, but unnoticed creators that can make amazing levels, or even new creators for that matter, from making levels because people prefer glow over art. and the mods for some reason REFUSE to rate good levels, and prefer to rate stuff with G L O W. as a creator since 1.9 it has been very frustrating in my part because most of the levels given an epic rate are levels with excessive glow, and only a fraction of that is actually really good levels (e.g: against the god, absolute garbage, ispywithmylittleeye, lightning speed, etc.) and even then most of these dont get as much traction as the glow levels. thats why i dont even bother touching the editor, knowing that the standards of the community wouldnt get my level rated even if i tried my hardest hardest to make it good; sorry if that sounds entitled.

[@Spacehero5000]

There is a lot of bias and levels are being rated on glow and object spam or if your popular or not. Levels should be rated by passion, this happens every once in a while, with levels that have 1.0 deco but cool gameplay concepts. But the thing is, if you are new to creating, even if your innovative, creative, and passionate, if its not glowed up and has 200 decos per square inch, no cp. Creator points have no value anymore, its just be popular and put out some more trash. Edit: my levels arent good by any means, but because I actually put in my passion, i enjoy those levels as much as some rated levels that have passion and not cp grinding like whirl's levels. Even though my levels are bad, passion is what makes levels good, not gameplay or decoration, or if your popular.

[@lauridsen1381]

I understand your point but you have to look at it from Robtop's perspective also. Given he is a developer of an initially (and still conceptually) simple platformer game, he clearly just wants the game to have lots of levels that are fun for the average player, so that his game will be marketable and fun for as many people as possible. Simple levels without too much shit going on visually are good for that. Same for levels in the hard-harder difficulty as that is the point where most players will be at before they either become hardcore fans or quit. You look at it from a long term player and creator who wants to project ideas into the game as an art form perspective. He looks at it from the perspective of a game developer who wants the game to just be good and fun. Super Mario games don't have insane wacky ideas all the time in every new level either, but manage to be fun regardless. I think you just have to respect his vision of the game and maybe try to get a compromised deal with him to make the system better.

[@SumPlusWord]

Something that has been happening as a result of the Demon rating system is that a select few of creators have been lying about how hard their level is to avoid having the mods vote on whether or not it should get rated. I have seen a fair amount of 7-9 star levels recently that are much more difficult than many Easy Demons. This is the result of creators either not wanting to wait 90 years for their level to get rated, or wanting a higher chance of getting the level rated in the first place, as RobTop has much lower standards than the mods.

[@gorantev]

And there is a bunch of *even older* 8-9 star levels, that are basically Demon difficulty in all but rating. Looking at you, Twisted Pack. So, yeah. Problem was there from the much earlier time, but it only got worse fairly recently, due to changes in how Demon difficulty levels are rated.

[@unamedzube7xb297]

@@gorantev the difficulty isnt the same as the ones in 1.9 or lower

[@gorantev]

@@unamedzube7xb297 I am aware of physics difference, but you have to understand, that an issue of incorrect difficulty rating dates much further back than last 1-3 years.

[@Blueiro444]

Totally agree dude

[@S1NPowerZ]

Honestly I don't get why Elder Moderators can be able to rate levels like in a GDPS with these standards. Why does it have to be RobTop to rate these? Like he barely rates Demon levels and rates more Hard and Harder levels gets rated, and I figured out that levels that were made in the past like 2019 or even before that always never get epic rated or featured, And some 1.9 levels that are really good for its time never get the attention it deserves. And I do think that RobTop should change the "Geometry Star" Achievement to beat like 50 rated levels that have stars. I find it unfair that you have to get a lazy developer to rate your level to get a UFO. I also would wish levels before 2.11 levels would get rated like in 2.1, (Like before 2.11) 2.0, 1.9, or even before that should get rated if they look good for it's time and not just block spam. Because most of the time RobTop never rates these types of levels sadly, And I also think Moderators and Elder Moderators should be able to send levels for epic. and Creator Points should stay but should be more easy to get. I would also like levels like Perfect Storm to be a Hard/Insane Demon instead of 9 stars that would be much fair *Tell me your opinions to this!*

[@AlephSix66]

There goes an inch of my slim chances of getting a level rated...

[@HogRider2]

I agree with you about the rate system being bad, but I dont think its robtops fault, I think its the all moderators. I think they try to do a good job, but end up defining a "good level" by such a narrow stardard that it creats this problem with levels not trying to be creative. from what ive seen robtop will rate almost anything that is of decent quality that gets sent to him, but the problem is that the mods standards are way too high so nothing ever gets sent. I also think the community's critisism is a big problem here, because if rob ever rates anything outside the "norm" (which he does) he gets hate for it from the community. this may reflect itself in robtop, but I think its not going to affect robtop as he has seems to have a thick skin. I think that when this happens the mods only continue to narrow thier standard of a good level and that feeds the problem

[@proxyrhine]

This is why I am always demotivated to decorate a level as I'm like "is this rate worthy?" "Will people like this?" I always base my motivation off of getting CP and I feel like it's reasonable. Does making an amazing level that's absolutely stunning and not wanting it to get rated make sense at all? It probably dosent if you think about it. I also feel bad for other creators as some make amazing levels with stunning visuals and gameplay with no recognition at all, while all of the other lazy creators are enjoying their tens of thousands of downloads and a star rate or feature. It's honestly just unfair to me and other creators out there, and not to mention moderators level requests streams won't change jack****** as your level won't get played as there are thousands of levels being sent in their forms and you have about a 1 in a million chance just to get one level played, and your KZbin channel is probably dead so dont even THINK having a KZbin channel will change anything in your career You know what else is annoying? "Moderators" if you can even call them that, they're biased as hell! If a mod even does see your level which they probably won't unless they are scrolling in the recent tab (which they're obviously not) they're so biased about some levels! They'll most likely say your level is outdated or isn't up to today's standards but the levels they do send are generic as hell! Not to mention the same problem goes for robtop too! I honestly think this rating system needs to change one way or another. It's dumb that a good level with good gameplay won't get rated, but a generic glow or modern level gets an epic or feature! The reason why "Shape of the sun" got rated epic is because god damn it's less generic than your crappy average glow level. This rating system is stupid and I honestly think robtop could do this: There could be a level up system Level 1 is the average player with barely any experience with gd. And basically just a normal level. Level 2 is the "helper" where if you get over 2000 likes total assuming your levels are really good you can send levels to robtop and of course, your levels can be recognized and pushed to the top a bit more. Sure this would cause some moderating issues, however I think it would be much more reasonable than only being able to send levels if you're a mod. Level 3 is the ACTUAL moderator gave to you by robtop himself, giving the ability to ban people for a specific amount of time and I don't know what else that moderators would do. Finally, level 4. The Elder moderator which gives you the ability to rate levels on the spot and it would be much easier for robtop as he wouldn't be doing the work all by himself. I honestly think this is a much better system than the current one and would help the game significantly. Thanks for reading and have a great day!

[@Anxmaly666]

yeah, building levels becomes a lot harder the more you care about what people think of them. Its basically a feedback loop and it just kills creativity

[@proxyrhine]

@@Anxmaly666 basically what I was trying to say yes! It gets really demotivating that a mod probably won't see your level even if it's way above the rate standards. Even if they do, they're kind of just bias on what they think is a good enough level. I feel like honestly you'll get more positive feedback if you just are a lazy non-creative creator rather than a creator that wants to do something different.

[@Anxmaly666]

@@proxyrhine yep

[@su-if8qw]

Late to the party on this, but same. The one that hurts me the most is "it's outdated and not modern" is the #1 thing that kills my motivation to even commit to creating because i want to create older style levels akin to 1.8-1.9 decoration but the fact that "it's outdated" will always be the case to these moderators, like im sorry i prefer a different decoration?? Like i don't know man.

[@proxyrhine]

@@su-if8qw i like my decoration to be a bit more simplified. kinda like jonathangd back in like 2017, but the nitpicky moderators or just like people who give criticism in general are like "no, you need to add more deco to the blocks!" and im like sorry i dont wanna make overdecorated shit??? oh and i also get like "this block design looks too outdated" aswell so i get where youre coming from

[@nubert2036]

Yeah the rating system just makes the game feel.. weird in a way. I actually didn't know the "rating system" in osu was that cool. I honestly doubt that anything will change tho, i feel like robtop and other mods will not want this to change

[@Zegiomio]

I might one day try join the modding team and leak everything so people can finally understand how the rating system works

[@Zegiomio]

I also have a idea you know how demons are rated right. Why not have that system for every difficulty and have a ability to let the community vote. It will be a like pole system and to keep things “fair” the value of the vote varies from people Normal players will have 1 normal mods will have 5 and elders will have 10. You can also only vote once so no dumb things occur.

[@GS_geostorm]

people already know how the rating system works

[@lulz-sb9yu]

Etzer's "How to get a featured level in 5 minutes" is YEARS old and still pretty much holds true. I haven't seen a featured level that is good in this entire update. The way I find levels to play nowadays is by going on KZbin and finding a video of something. Such a shame, I don't think 2.113 is bad but I miss the charm of older levels. No, this is not yet another MUH 1.9 NOSTALGIA!!! post, but with 2.1 allowing creators to do more and more, they seem to do less and less. Most of these featured 2.1 levels can probably be recreated in 1.7 for the most part which is insane.

[@kenos911]

Thats cap, I’ve seen some amazing features levels Lol try to recreate a modern level in 1.7…

[@MostlyJustWhipGaming]

Calm down with the hyperbole, yes the kinda sucked rating system for years, but you and the nine people who liked your comment clearly dont understand this video, the game, or the rating system

[@lulz-sb9yu]

@@kenos911 Not even that difficult, I'd argue the biggest missing feature would be custom songs.

[@lulz-sb9yu]

@@MostlyJustWhipGaming It's still the same type of level over and over. And in the rare cases where it isn't, it's instead repetitive and boring gameplay, or so much decoration the level is unplayable without dropping frames. It's almost like people can't decide if they want low effort levels or overdecorated levels. To be clear, the earlier updates had a lot of crap too, such as way too much memory and stupid fakes but in any of the previous updates of the game I have never found levels so boring compared to the previous update of the game. Also I've been playing since October 2013 so I think I know a thing or two by now about the rating system and user levels.

[@kenos911]

@@lulz-sb9yu and the… 4x speed portal, Wave, robot, spider gamemode, green, black, dash, and brown orbs, Dual, ALL types of glow, infinite color channels (there’s only one, and you can set it with only specific blocks), triggers, groups pulses being rudimentary, object and editor layers, don’t fade don’t enter, hsv, slopes, a bunch of saws, backgrounds and like the 300 2.1 decoration blocks… those are the ones off the top of my head. Oh and also, no preview mode allowed. The ILL has a list of every block in 1.7. Good luck :)

[@BladeTerraX]

Finnaly, someone notices how unfair this system is, I am one of the victors to this, I try and try and try to get attention to my level, even moderators, but it hasn’t been given the amount of attention it deserves, in my opinion. My level is ok on decoration, but has good gameplay. I have art that probably would have been expected from like 4 years ago or somethin’. It’s only this way because I suck at making any kind of decoration, I have tried so many times to make “Modern day” decoration and failed it feels like I’ll never get the attention for my levels , just because I’m not good at decoration…

[@dylanr.7760]

I like how one of the achievements in the game is to literally get one of ur levels rated which in my opinion is ridiculous. I think rated levels should stay but scrap the creator points.

[@GloomDaGod]

In my opinion, moderators can keep the difficulty rating part of a level, since it seems like most can tell what difficulty something should be and such. On the other side of the spectrum, things like star rating, coins, epic or featured n such should be left to the community, imagine the rate level feature actually work :/. Leaving something like judging a levels quality to such a small group of people, with their own opinions and bias, is a recipe for disaster, so why not expand the threshold. The only problem i can see there, is "funny" people wrongly rating as a "joke", for those cases a mod or such would probably be allowed to step in rate something themselves.

[@Jolei33]

I agreed with this because we got insane levels that are harder than most demons and demons that are easier than most insane levels. This would fix that.

[@CroatGMD]

this is my favorite geometry dash youtube video of all time

[@travision9105]

I feel like the worst thing robtop couldve possibly done in the first place is adding achievements that require you to get a rated level or just a level with a lot of likes, this literally just influences people without those achievements that they wish to get to maek the most generic level ever. edit: now that i think about it you said this with creator points its literally the same thing, if robtop would just remove anything that adds a statistic for creating a level first of all the servers wont always be getting flooded with generic levels and would give himself more time to actually update the game instead of having to rate levels every second

[@JarmezGD]

Having a quiz taken to become a moderator is a very good idea that way they could pick people who actually critique levels properly (however this is assuming the people picking the team want change which they clearly don’t)

[@SuperRandoms.]

Bro really used boris Johnson 💀💀💀

[@znicoshi]

this is why im recently revisiting 1.6-1.9 levels, they feel much more charming (although theyre worse most of the times) and feel like they were rated for a reason now it feels like moderation is a guessing game

[@averagelizard2489]

GD Mod team be like: Conical Depression deserves Rate, Tidal Wave doesn't, Saul Goodman deserves Epic, Firework doesn't. It makes no sense lol.

[@znicoshi]

@@averagelizard2489 i mean firework is pretty boring imo

[@averagelizard2489]

@@znicoshi It is very good tho.

[@geniuspenguin8924]

Older levels are actually interesting as they usually looked different from each other in some way. Newer levels look so similar that I don't even bother playing them.

[@kenowork5105]

The problem with comparing gd and osu is one is obviously going to be biased since in gd one needs deco and gameplay the other is just gameplay.

[@finadoggie]

As I was watching the video, I was thinking about how much better osu!’s ranking system is, and went “YES!!!” when you brought it up As an osu! player, it’s baffling to me when I see a gd mod’s level request video where they play a level, say “oh, you could do x y and z better” and then rate the level anyways, when in osu!’s system, these would be suggested as mods that the mapper could use to improve the map (or ignore if they think they’re correct and can justify it) Edit: I will say though, I don’t think any actual osu! devs have gotten involved in any ranked maps in years, other than when peppy (lead dev of osu!) makes a comment on Twitter that has no real effect on maps. The NAT members are generally the ones who go in to solve drama over controversial maps afaik

[@DarkAngry]

0:04 *Bli has entered the chat*

[@andrews3271]

I've been thinking this very thing for years now. I don't use the in-game level searching feature because of how terrible the quality is of the average level. I just stick to levels that I know are actually fun because I saw them on youtube or somewhere else. The system is as worthless as the levels it promotes and needs to be completely scrapped.

[@gdneofar8427]

Imagine waiting for a long time to send your level by mod then still nothing happened

[@Vortex.20]

this is way too bad, you might not see it at first, but this can get very bad if 2.2 comes out with it unchanged, you have all these new levels that may be awesome and be the first of thier kind, but they wont be even noticed in the community, even tho this was robtops old way of rating levels, like element 111 rg, we all heard of it, but it is way too bad, but what a surprise, it starts with 2.0 (i think it was 2.0) blocks thta were newly added, and this is very bad for new creators now, like me personally i have been making a level since the last 4 days, but whem i upload it, i bet it will barely get anything more than 50 downloads.

[@gmdman]

I wouldn't really mind if the creator points were removed, I have like 6 and don't care too much about them ,but in a way its a cool thing to have on your profile ,maybe if you could get a badge with letter "C" (creator) on it if you have at least one level rated, featured or epic.

[@surtGD]

Love u stormfly, you’re the biggest voice of rationale in this community and I hope this trilogy of videos will cause some change in this game

[@arcturus1140]

Remember when in 1.6 levels used to be rated by how creative they were? Yeah, Me neither but the rating system seemed better back then

[@DiamondOrPoor78]

Finally, someone with influence mentioning the mod team's and Rob's corruption!

[@rainbs2nd]

About Robtop's negligence with updates, I think he should at least launch one minor update every few months. I'm not talking about crazy features, those can be stored for big updates like 2.2, but at least constant bug fixes and quality of life updates, like improving the editor, the UI, etc. As a game developer myself, I don't see why this couldn't be a thing.

[@psychosmia5414]

dorabae basic 13 as the daily not even that long after this level has gotta be one of the most ironic things ever

[@pfofe]

True! I think the biggest problem is the smaller creators getting unnoticed, even if they build similiar or even better levels than the big creators.

[@SteelWolf_]

Totally agree with you. But I would also point out that creators in this game had the same tools for over 7 years which doesn't help developing new and interesting ideas. If the game was updated Regularly (even once a year) things wouldn't be so stale and boring. As always great video man!

[@Komatic5]

A part of the issue is that creators tend not to look outside of the game at all for any ideas. The tools themselves matter less than how they’re used, and this game has an echo chamber of a community which exacerbates the issue you’re saying

[@razman5993]

And on the other hand, if you give creators more complex tools, like camera controls and the like, the greater the chances that less skilled creators are going to struggle or create BS levels that are absolutely miserable to play. Like a lot of potential solutions, its a double-edged sword!

[@Umbre_]

I honestly thought i was alone with thinking a billion portal changes is just utterly obnoxious, i thought it was just the direction the game was going. It really pisses me off because I can never find demons that dont do this nowadays. It genuinly makes the level so unfun and just feels like a spectacle more than actually making the game play fun. Having sections dedicated to a certain gamemode is just better in everway in my opinion. I can process whats happening, and also it can help me learn the gamemode more and increase my skills in it, instead of just "oh click once for the ufo and now youre a ship" its just so lame and annoying.

[@ThreeletterIGN]

I think it can work sometimes. The mini wave at the beginning of Deadlocked flows well and only adds to the level

[@su-if8qw]

This is literally one of if not the biggest reason why I stopped playing the newer levels. In addition, add that with the overdecorated glow and blind transitions really turned me off from playing them.

[@Umbre_]

@ThreeletterIGN that one is fine, bc deadlocked never does rapid transitions except that one

[@Umbre_]

@@su-if8qw yeah fr

[@killykid5779]

This is a great video, man. Thank you for talking about this problem.

[@KaydogEntertainment]

The dragon png the entire video: 🫲🫱🫲🫱🫲

[@aubreamber]

this is part of the reason why i've gotten so demotivated with gd

[@kulkuljator]

That's actually the reason why I dropped Geometry Dash. The majority of featured levels after recent updates were just looking the same.