GD Top Demons Are Unfortunately Dead

[@AleXPain24]

The answer is more simpler: Standardization and huge similarity between them, no game updates for years which is kinda correlated with the previous one, not even quick fixes of bugs and problems that frustrate players for many years. I'm actually surprised there is so much stuff done for practicing and grinding demons by players but i don't think I've seen any kind of mod that fixes RobTob's mistakes

[@the_padzer3456]

When Alex says something, you know it's true

[@AleXPain24]

Forgot to add that song's choice for these demons is mostly the same genres of music while it's more diverse in iwbtg or any rhythm game, not just osu!

[@holycheeshus]

@@AleXPain24 true

[@עומרטולדנו-ז4ה]

@@AleXPain24 i feel like geometry dash developed its kind of music which is sad, would like to see more diversity in levels today... btw i have mad respect for you alex

[@mews9439]

Alex is here!

[@JJReed]

I remember when top demons used to be a once in a blue moon type of thing. Now they are just way too common and repetitive and they aren't interesting anymore. Agreed.

[@mkdk_yay]

so true so true so true so true

[@thesinzer5458]

Mindcap demons are cool but the rest...

[@SwagLakitu]

I think we need something so mind breaking that it would stay top 1 for years. The problem is: 1: it would be next to impossible with the skill cap atm 2: it would have to be extremely insane to the point its not fun at all to play, fixed hitboxes, lots of frame perfects, and lots of spam probably

[@thesinzer5458]

@@SwagLakitu If Silent circel gets verified with the bug and rated would be a posibility

[@drakonua]

I remember you, JJ Reed... You got banned on 1.1 GDPS for harassing a girl and generally being weird. Nobody has forgotten that. And neither did you.

[@JustJimmyGD]

Top demons aren't dead, they're very alive in the most terrible way you could imagine.

[@kenos911]

Ehhhhh at least it doesn’t include challenges

[@jotzyjostrazar5817]

Looks ot the views AoD gives to the victors... do you really thinks isn't dead? Trick have more views beating Conical Depression than fucking Abyss of Darkness, even Kuzureta gave him more views SpaceUK have more views with this video than all of his list demon completed except Slaughterhouse: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mmm4ZZ93n6t6frs&ab_channel=spaceuk

[@so14r3]

"Mortally Challenged" they say

[@sonetagu1337]

It's an _extreme_ *demon* , what else do you expect?

[@gregorysoldatman]

They are in a state of undeath. They should be dead, but for various reasons aren't Edit: Spelling

[@AeonAir]

It's taken me a couple days to watch this, but I finally got around to it, and I agree! I've talked about this for a while now on my stream, and said I will be having my pointercrate account removed after I finish Hard Machine, simply because grinding hard levels because of the fact they are hard is just not fun. I love extreme demons, and thoroughly enjoy extremes, but not because they are hard. It's because they are just challenging enough to give me a hard time, while also not being too easy for me to beat too fast. Meanwhile the list is too hard for it to be enjoyable for extended periods of time.

[@potatolol.]

Nub

[@Periwinkleaccount]

@@potatolol. you definitely can’t call aeonair a noob.

[@Y99992]

@@potatolol. he’s better than you though. 😆

[@itzyuzuruclips]

Aeon based

[@p4tchPL]

top players are striking against the demon list

[@LastPrismAlex]

you explained it way, way better than i could ever do as a player that quit for two years when Sonic Wave was #1 and came back to the Tartarus era, it was weird seeing so many new top demons released in only two years, and that only got worse as time went on from the perspective of someone who can't beat top demons, this is even more extreme Sunset Sandstorm was #41 when i first saw it and fell in love with it, in the time i beat my first 9 extremes, started practicing it, started playing from 0, and a month later beat it, it only dropped 3 spots back in 2021, it didn't seem like it even had a slight chance to ever drop to the legacy list, but here we are, it's sitting at #107 because of the insane amout of top 40's verified in 2021, and it's only going faster i always mention this in streams, specially when top players compare the similar difficulty of the top 10 it will come to the point where levels are so similar in difficulty, that the entire top 150 will be roughly the same, and that will be the death of the list as a ranking system incredible video, amazing job as always!

[@AlexTT666]

Last part of the comment is so valid tho. Today's top demons are becoming so close in difficulty that it became basically impossible to decide a numerical order for only the top 3, as the difficulty is subjective and everyone feels it in a different way. The fact is that the more we approach to the skill cap and the more the difficulty becomes so close between the levels that it's basically impossible to rank them. If we continue like this, most likely by the next 2 years we'll have a top10 of levels so close to each other in terms of difficulty that the list will eventually die. It will become meaningless at that point and useless.

[@espectador-]

The list should be extended to 200 tbh

[@AlexTT666]

@@espectador- It would be more accessible to people, but extremely hard to administrate

[@espectador-]

@@AlexTT666 that's true but I think it will be necessary at some point

[@Icedonot]

@@espectador- better idea, screw the list, it isnt needed, we just watched a video on why its bad, extending it just seems like it will add more issues in the long run

[@GDColon]

Incredible. I've been trying to find the words to say this for so long but this video explained it flawlessly. I've always felt like a total outcast for not being as interested in extremes as other people in the community, so it's really nice to see a lot of people actually sharing that viewpoint also more indie extremes pls i'm SO SICK of megacollab after megacollab

[@Clairvoyancy]

I mean JamAttack is doing a solo extreme demon called cellar path, so that might be a change of pace!

[@newlineschannel]

yes

[@baconmunchh]

bro isn’t ur hardest like decode

[@monodragon]

@@baconmunchh and? hes a huge part of the community and has been here longer than most people.

[@baconmunchh]

@@monodragon how can you even have an opinion on the demon list if you’re hardest is a literal easy demon

[@Bradenbowl]

I have always known that the demonlist lately, to me, felt like it’s going down hill. Holy cow, this video EXPLAINED to me of what I’ve been feeling, and couldn’t figure out why. Yes, I do enjoy some of the demons on the demonlist, but none of them felt the way like Bloodlust, as you said. The community is now very judgmental and very opinionated, to the point of telling YOU how to play the game, which I think, is a very toxic/negative thing people are doing. It probably will most likely backfire in the near future. Really good video, and a very interesting subject that should be talked about more.

[@YourGoodFriendShane]

The demons list is inherently a L because sightless sandstorm is harder than anything on there

[@Wooshi999]

Main reason I don’t even try with top demons anymore. It’s too much of a time commitment and the investment has become much larger than the payout. I definitely was a significant contributor to this trend, buffing a mediocre level to oblivion for the sake of having the clout of a top 1 and an ego boost. I do wish that I had placed more importance on quality than difficulty as a verifier all those years ago, because I’m really not satisfied with the projects I verified.

[@kalshim1]

Dont blame you because top demons are ass and it takes me a week on a 174 extreme, so i couldnt even imagine beating something that hard over and over again

[@Hi-xr6dt]

I don’t remember where, but I remember watching a critique of illuminations movies saying that “they’re made as products first, and works of art second” and that quote really stuck in my mind. I can’t help but feel like a lot of these levels are made primarily as demon list contenders, and being a good level is just a secondary concern.

[@ExtremeDemon]

Sounds like it could be schafrillas productions who said that

[@foodynooby]

i have to say, the entire TOP 8 being only star rated is really unfortunate, especially with the #1, #2, #3, #4, #6, #7, #8, #9, and #10 being remakes or sequels of older levels.

[@arii_how]

eh, Tartarus, SWI and Acheron isnt a star rated

[@foodynooby]

@@arii_how i said top 8 lol acheron is still really bland though, its just another red and black/grey top 3.

[@KenjohBR]

Arcturus is a remake?

[@KompadoodleLEL]

@@KenjohBR its a nerfed i,pssible levelol

[@sethdash1906]

Mayhem exists

[@laserduck4238]

The fact that a joke level named 'lodin da fish washer' is one of the most memorable list levels in the past year says a lot. 90% of the list levels are just boring garbage, made for difficulty and nothing else

[@redberriescereal8465]

Lodin Da Fish Washer is iconic. Probably the best level to exist.

[@Pgpxd]

THAT IS ACTUALLY A THING OMFG

[@MattExists]

Water white, gus fring, jesse pinkman

[@thatlatiasuser]

Lodin the fish washer is better than the entire list combined

[@GMeneze800]

@@thatlatiasuser Nhelv tho

[@OneAlphaHelix]

This hit way too close to home for me. I’ve been following the list since around the RGB was at the top and I started playing at a high level since Tartarus was at the top. Since then. Everything’s just fallen into shambles. There are some good levels near the top right now, but I’d say Firework is the last “good” level to be in the top 5. I tried to save Acheron and people clowned on me for doing so. Originally, when entering the race, the Wolvez version was meant to be unchanged. I did ask ryamu later on to *VERY SLIGHLY* buff some parts (literally 4 clicks) for balancing. When Zoink started with his buffs, that’s when it all went south. At first it wasn’t bad but when the first jump got buffed the level had no hope. I’m not trying to diss on Zoink, he won the race and I didn’t. But seeing so many top players now despise the level that was considered the last good Top 3 breaks my heart. Great video. Wouldn’t have changed a thing.

[@woodenrocks2445]

Alpha, I have MASSIVE respect for you trying to save Acheron. Obviously Zoink's achievement is insane, but I think that everyone needs to get out of the mindset of buffing every level without considering how bad you're gonna make it.

[@sonetagu1337]

Shoud've been buffed by Nswish instead

[@cobrablitz]

i have been saying this for months, the top level scene of geometry dash has been moving way too fast but people refuse to listen because “pushing the limits” are a good thing, but there’s a line to be crossed where utter dogshit levels are being placed in the top 10 constantly because random top players absolutely no-life them until they inevitably beat it after spending hundreds of thousands of attempts, just for only one or two others to complete the level over an excessively long duration of time. the skill ceiling is becoming more and more inaccessible and players will become more and more demotivated to reach the top because of the amount of time that is needed to beat the top levels, and it’s just not worth it at this point.

[@bmrabbit]

i agree, back then almost everyone could have their own record on the list and nowadays people cant get past 15% on any top 5 level before they give up

[@izofdoors4913]

dang never thought I'd agree (let alone strongly agree) with cobrablitz on something but here we are

[@Kolzaru]

uncommon cobrablitz w

[@beckettgd]

This is the only time I will like a cobrablitz opinion

[@vulblhotdiessfi]

extremely uncommon Cobrablitz W

[@phewiss3066]

I feel like the day Slaughterhouse, Arctarus, and Firework all got rated was when shit really hit the fan. Every single creator realized that they didn't have to try anymore, and could just make minute long wave challenges and call them a top 1.

[@Fofiifii]

last top 1 i cared about was yatagarasu 💀

[@DarkeyOfficial]

💀

[@SuperDominicS]

Although I came about the time slaughterhouse was released, the only level I really respect as a top 1 is zodiac due to how it functions compared to 'timing heaven hell v3 top -1'. Just a long and possibly irritating level to succeed at compared to doing every timing perfectly wasting tons of time just for one 'success'

[@Ash1nerTV]

Mine was Tartarus, after that it all went downhill

[@ueIl]

For me it was Erebus or Bloodlust

[@nooblookingpro3766]

This is such a well said and valuable sentiment. From my experience grinding extreme demons a year or so ago, it would usually consist of grinding out really difficult levels or not so good ones for a long time, and I would never consistently find myself to have the patience to do them. And when I actually did finish my achievements through, a sort of emotional tornado would usually follow where it would be tempting to argue for your opinion, or demotivating to feel like you've spent so much time to not even get a quarter closer to a community considered grand achievement, and that would usually be because the grind would be for the achievement more so than the enjoyment. If you have the time and patience to go for top levels, then that is perfectly fine, but something I personally believe is that you should only go for top/difficult levels that interest you or that you like. It's motivating to go for stuff that you are already interested in, naturally, and those levels will likely be respectful of your time and energy. That's part of the reason I was able to grind out Super Probably Level despite not having done anything around its difficulty, it just really intrigued me. Being part of the grind now is super stressful, as the demons list as a whole has gotten a very fluctuant and rapid burst of hype, and is constantly changing and switching to the next best thing. Accomplishments are rarely ever appreciated nowadays and it's because of that. So yeah, in my opinion, you should play for your sake, and I also wholeheartedly agree with this. Very nice video :).

[@bfii9729]

summary: the list is ruined because now, the list isn't made FOR levels, levels are made for the list. same with old 2.1 generic levels, where instead of building everything based off of the gameplay and song, most levels were built based off the DECO so you could change the gameplay entirely and it would still be the same level, but today since even GAMEPLAY can be atmospheric making such a level where gameplay and deco are so disconnected from each other can ruin a level completely.

[@lucasestoes_]

Exactly

[@TheRealVodun13]

Based af

[@antiskyze]

amazing quote g

[@ilrell]

FACTS.

[@SuperSomieStuff]

This is perfect

[@MultiverseGD]

This is hands down one of the best gd videos I’ve ever seen. The points you made hit the target right in the middle, and you didn’t leave any loose ends either. Good job Stormfly

[@yodaas7902]

I think a part of this is caused by the fact that 2.2 is taking so long. When updates were more frequent there was constantly more stuff to learn about the game. I hope 2.2 is going to fix this issue

[@ikarimisu0184]

2.2 will certainly make a big impact

[@GDNashit]

its too late, its the game's culture at this point, the only way to fix it is for updates to come out regularly again for a prolonged period of time

[@evernevers5390]

@@GDNashit Well there are according to robtop (let's just hope that its true)

[@Gixin]

@@GDNashit Well Robtop says he's going to get a team and make darn sure after 2.2 he's limiting himself to 3 months. If each update seems like it'll take longer he'll just push content to the next update, and that he doesn't wanna delay an update for nearly as long ever again. Hopefully he follows through

[@GDNashit]

@@Gixin and other hilarious jokes you can tell yourself!

[@PigPigGamer]

Literally spoke my mind. I’ve been feeling this way for a while, as top 1s just don’t hit the same anymore due to how common they are now. The last top 1 which truly felt somewhat special was like Slaughterhouse, after that it just didn’t feel the same anymore.

[@godzillagod9752]

Slaughterhouse isn’t even special, it only felt that way because we were used to Tartarus being top 1 because it was there for so long. Any other level that would of dethroned it and succeed would of felt the same way

[@Anxmaly666]

It wasn't just slaughterhouse, Firework and arcturus achieved that same goal

[@Insantgd]

How ever slaughterhouse was placed above them which is why we mostly admired slaughterhouse but honestly the list is just boring now because it comes down to the opinions of top players who spend all of their 20s grinding a game that might not matter a year from now

[@lucasestoes_]

The golden was the last one

[@Leksssx]

actually after reading this I now think slh is special because it looks like what a early 2.1 top 1 looks like and not the others that have been posted recently. edit: slh was also made before the mass top 1

[@kantraa]

i agree with everything you've said. the game is way too fucking hard at this point and it's mainly the demon list's fault. top demons used to be a "once in a blue moon" type of thing and now they're pretty much the only type of extreme demon that creators produce.

[@lukecarroll19]

Top demons are meant to be hard. I find it fascinating that players have been able to push the skill ceiling again and again. Plus, the game isn't any harder than it ever was. The idea that the game is harder is false because all of the old levels are still available to be played. Only a few levels that push the boundaries on what's possible are "too hard".

[@Itzarzky]

thats basically GD in a nutshell this game is way too hard + the competitive status quo of this game just makes it way fucking worse

[@radar_the_fox]

Dont play them then lol brainlet

[@flow185]

@@lukecarroll19 it makes it way harder , if every week theres new top5 even harders than the one before, it makes the overall skill ceiling way highet

[@lukecarroll19]

@@flow185 The skill ceiling is irrelevant for players like you and me. I know it's something impossibly hard so I'm not gonna sweat not reaching it. But I will support the levels and players who wanna make it to the top.

[@yourlocalgoat]

Hey Stormfly. I couldn't dm you, so I just wanted to put a message forth after having watched your most recent video about top extreme demons. I appreciate your new video a lot. I myself bounce back and forth between extreme demons. There are some that I like and some I dislike. Because I don't have the skill to beat them, I don't really play them either. So the only way I look at extreme demons is through (admittedly) their difficulty estimated by victors, visuals and the feeling of watching a satisfying level. But that has partially changed for me after watching your video. Your video has shed a new light for me regarding extreme demons and the content made around them. Not sure if you mentioned this in your video, but the content made around these top 1 extreme demons just adds more shit to the already giant turd that is top 1 extreme demons. More so than anyone might think. For example the ''comparing this version to this version'' type videos. Most notably Acheron and Abyss of Darkness. This, along with many of the points you made in your video, just kills extreme demons more and more for me. And I'm glad you managed to make a well constructed video on this topic, because honestly I don't think anyone ever has. And obviously I don't think the problem has or will ever change regarding the demon list, like you mentioned in your video. But at the same time, as long as at least one person changes their mind about top extreme demons, I think your video has done justice. At least that is the case for me. So I want to thank you for making the video. Apologies for the quality of my English 😅

[@gregbong]

"Apologies for the quality of my English 😅" mf

[@diet_water479]

*writes paragraphs like a native* “sorry for quality of english” But seriously if english is your second or further language, good job man i would not have known

[@sonetagu1337]

Good english! Sounds like it has a bit of an "young" accent, but it's very cohesive and understandable.

[@SpirteX]

Hi. I'm currently #5 on the Stats Viewer now and I 100% agree with the video. I was basically trying to say the very same thing for months but of course it didn't do much. I stopped following the demonlist in December, and at that point i already left the community. Why do i have so much list points? I just play the levels that I like, i play this game purely for fun now since it became completely pointless to follow the list. The demonlist now is becoming the second impossible levels list. Do you realize Firework fell out of top 5 now? I wish we could go back to 2019 when there were at least much more better levels. Right now we can all clearly see that people just want difficulty, they refuse to have a normal life and instead they spend more than 10 hours a day at home grinding a single level for the sake of #1 on the demonlist, and that's sad. I am very disappointed because the game that i used to enjoy is slowly drowning in the sea of "NEW TOP 1???". This trend REALLY needs to stop as soon as possible. Thank you Stormy for this video. I hope the community will notice it.

[@mind336]

hello qatar man

[@YossarianGD]

As sad as it might be I completely agree with this video, you did a great job nailing the topic right on the head.

[@woodenrocks2445]

Hear me out: What npesta was going for with return 0 was genius. We need really long levels that don't need to have insane chokepoints. We need long levels so we can fit in plenty of tough gameplay that creates a convincing top 1, but also at the same time has great gameplay.

[@CoingamerFL]

Some good levels could come out of that, but I feel like it would also lay the path for 45 minute boring pretentious levels that are annoying to play

[@Cometbolide]

Unfortunately it's now cancelled

[@Salvoe]

So nice seeing someone who actually has a decent sized platform to voice these opinions from people who have been in the community for 7+ years. So tired of people talking about how firework is the best level every created.

[@radar_the_fox]

Im so tired of ppl thinking natural disaster is a good lvl LOL

[@thatlatiasuser]

Wait, what is a “Firework”, like the Katy Perry song, I have never seen a level named firework

[@icewings_intotheclouds]

you really make the best content around here. honestly, I think you should move on to other, more generally accessable video topics. this community neither appreciates you enough, nor deserves you. i would love to see some crazy good commentary videos from you about topics outside of GD, you'd make an amazing job at it.

[@notthatntg]

your typing style is mine but with punctuation lol

[@plexxar2]

Hey I’m all for some variety stormy content, but to say the gd community doesn’t appreciate or deserve the content he puts out is a big cuck mindset

[@50Steaks68]

Don’t make stormy the new sea1997

[@icewings_intotheclouds]

@@50Steaks68 it was great that SEA left the gd community behind tbh

[@zEliazar]

@@icewings_intotheclouds he left at the right time tbh. the community is 10x worse from when he made videos, and he heavily despised the community

[@naidarwin1217]

here after spaceuk boosting the top 1s into oblivion prematurely lmaoooo

[@xLumyh]

I got back into GD recently after not playing for a few years, last time I played was mid-2020, last time I paid attention to the community was late 2018, and what I remember from then was Bloodlust vs PPF, the most progress people had on Silent Clubstep was like 6%, People were all going for 240hz, people were going insane because Bloodbath wasn't on the list anymore, and now it's 390hz, forgettable challenges dominating the list

[@switZ7Q]

360hz/360 bypass* but yeah

[@rinjello]

I remember I found out about the list one day and from there for like at least 6 months ALL I could do was try to make the "next big thing" the "new hardest demon" but whenever I finished a layout I was overwhelmingly disappointed. They were never good so I just thought "Well, its probably just because I'm not very experienced with gameplay creating so I'll just make some more!" I repeated that for said 6+ months expecting something to happen but of course, nothing did. So I decided that why not try to make an easier level, so I did. I then realized the reason I was always disappointed in my gameplay was because of its overwhelmingly hard difficulty ruining the enjoyment. So after that I have never tried to make a top level and I most likely never will either. Great video man, keep it up.

[@MullsyD]

Very interesting topic. I must've watched the video a few times now to really get a grasp of the issue. I'll admit I haven't been too active in the community recently, but I think I understand your arguments enough to provide an informed reply. This is my take on the situation, and I hope I don't sound like one of those angry DL supporters lmao, but it touched on a few things I think related to me and my journey as a player (both as a former list leader, and the lead engine behind the Tartarus race), so it might seem passionate at times. Without further ado, here goes: For some levels, at least, we keep seeing garbage old impossible levels come out because it's difficult for potatolover123 to land a verification project on the next Bloodlust. People want to reach for glory and fame, and the conquest of what once was seen as impossible to become one of the hardest things ever beaten (something with no set verifier, is well known, and is impressive), is frankly their only option. I may have been the leading culprit behind this trend with Tartarus (even though I didn't verify it), and I can say for sure that these were factors in my decision for going for it. Again, this is only the case for some levels. As for the point of the game being broken, I strongly agree and have my own resentments towards RobTop for what the community has had to put up with over the years. And now, I rant: So, who said the goal of the demon list is to be objectively correct? Okay it's stupid to assume that it is, but it's even dumber to use this fact as a basis to change it. Do you know why the demon list is so popular in it's apparent 'stupid and pointless' structure? The same reason why no one gives a shit about how I decreased my ergometer 2k time down from a 7:15 to a 7:10. People like comparing their achievements to others whether you like it or not, and though inaccurate, the current demon list structure serves that purpose. To dissuade someone from basing their motivation to compete or play on comparing themselves to others (in the form of verifying, or completing, a top level as per difficulty according to the demonlist), or as you put it, a "dick measuring competition"; is to devalue and essentially eliminate the entire notion of competition, and instead focus on 'having fun', or not doing it at all. Funny how you point to Trusta's GDDP and an apparent absence of this competition, as if there isn't a whole section on who's completed the most GDDP certified demons, and how it's entrenched in other areas like the stat "Completed by %% number of players" on a given demon. If everyone using the GDDP has seemingly rid their GD motivation of competition, why even put that stat in the first place? You could go on, but the overall point of how impossible and stupid it is to try and convince people to take competition out of their motivation for a game still stands. It's in our nature, and is certainly not limited to the GD community- or games, for that matter. And if you claim that you're not saying the GDDP is without competition, and you're praising its competitive elements based on its objectivity (I.e, how many GDDP levels you complete), then how on earth can you justify a better system of ranking the hardest levels in the game? People can compete over anything. Whether the objectivity of the long jump or Trusta's GDDP leaderboard, or the subjectivity of the best looking art piece or of the hardest level completed- the Demon list capitalized on the obvious community preference to compete over the hardest ever levels in the best way possible, and opting to change this preference simply because it's 'not objective' is unfounded and again ridiculous, since clearly universal objectivity of rankings is not needed for competition to exist (why else is diving an Olympic sport, or artistic gymnastics? any event with judges for that matter). To me, this argument just seems like a comeback to these smug demon list supporters you mentioned who flex their achievements according to the demonlist (and by extension, a form of class or social hierarchy) by attempting to destroy the entire system and convince people that A. We shouldn't care about the demonlist and B. The demonlist isn't accurate anyway (thus negating the contribution of hardest demon completed from one's class / perceived status in the community. But hey, that's just the psychologist in me). And finally, to say the intention behind trying to verify the hardest levels is to fuel the "money machine", is simply outrageous and I challenge you to provide an ounce of experience supporting that claim or at least some kind of proof that doesn't resemble baseless speculation. All in all, yes, it was the demon list community who decided to build the hardest, and therefore least accessible levels in the game- without accessibility in mind. It was those who wanted to beat these levels for no reason other than their difficulty that are responsible for creating levels solely for their, you guessed it- difficulty- instead of playability, structure, and fun. We've reaped what we've sown. And I applaud everyone who wants to make a name for themselves, to challenge themselves, for trying to do so.

[@MullsyD]

@Simone Macchia I'm irrelevant now what can ya do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@xRetroWAVE]

@@MullsyD Stormfly : NO, YOU CAN'T JUST PUSH HUMAN LIMITS, THE GAME IS TOO HARD! 😭😭😭😭 (because I'm noob) Spaceuk: Haha competition goes brrr Stormfly, nobody forces you to beat those levels. Just enjoy the game. But people will always break the limits not because they're "greedy for money", but because it's in their nature to compete with others. If everyone thought like Stormfly, nobody will climb Everest mountain because "IT'S NOT FUN ACHIEVEMENT, IT'S TOO HARD FOR OTHER PEOPLE!"

[@Komatic5]

Remember when top demons actually had gameplay you could remember, instead of just being cookie-cutter and boring? Good times.

[@lukecarroll19]

Slaughterhouse probably has the most iconic drop of any top level

[@thecloudofunknowing]

@@lukecarroll19 whats slaughterhouse

[@Komatic5]

@@lukecarroll19 Oh yeah! I too love… straight fly… and wave spam.. for the whole level…

[@Anxmaly666]

I do agree that Slaughterhouse does have the most iconic drop considering how hard it hits you. Too bad the gameplay isn't as memorable tho

[@bmrabbit]

i used to rewatch them so many times, so true

[@sebastianandres6802]

What do you mean "unfortunately", that's actually hype. I'm so f****g tired of top demons getting all or almost all the attention of the community when the levels that do matter (you know, the one everyone can ACTUALLY play) get soo under the radar. I'm not demonizing (hehe so funny) the demon list, I'm demonizing the community's obsession of making hard levels just for the sake of being hard. Maybe with the death of this obsession new top demons will emerge that are actually good and worth even considering about. This is actually really good 😊

[@haydenx13]

I've been in the demonlist since late 2017 and I agree. Ever since 2020 so many people have been releasing uninteresting levels and it's impacted my motivation, especially when it's a Top 50 level. I'm happy you talked about TrusTa's GDDP, I've been actively playing it since July 2021. It's been really motivating for me to play (I had 74 extremes completed when I started, now I have 127). Ever since I started playing the GDDP, I've had so much fun playing this game and I would highly recommend anyone to try it out. The Top 10 right now is horrible, the only levels I somewhat like is Tartarus and I guess Slaughterhouse. The other 8 is just old impossible levels, remakes, or lazy levels. I don't think it's ever going to change unless people start doing what Mindcap does and actually make good Top levels like Limbo and Return 0. Thank you for this video.

[@sethdash1906]

Yeah its definitely a shame the direction that top extremes are going, it seems that no one is trying to focus on having enjoyable gameplay and is instead just doing “what is the most difficulty that we can push into this level by any means” there is one level that i can think of that’s supposedly top one that seems to focus on good gameplay and that is “Return 0” and especially considering the verifier is npesta i feel like (or at least hope) hed try to make the level as fun as possible for as many players as possible, also one other note, as you may know (and as the viewers may not know) the gddp isn’t technically an original idea, it actually to my knowledge originated from one of the communities you mentioned in the video, that being the “i wanna be the guy” community and the creation of the “Fangame Skill Rating” (which for those who dont know, its just the gddp but for iwbtg fangames) so the idea of a list like the gddp technically isnt an idea originally from the gd community, but yeah hopefully after people see this that the demon list can start to head in a desirable direction, although i have a doubtful feeling about that… (ps using the mastermaxify clip was extremely based)

[@Whathefox.]

Bro I'm soo hyped for Return 0, that's gonna be insane

[@Herw768Offcial]

let me inform you npesta had the position of verifying kenos and proceeded to balance it to lose playability for more difficulty, hopefully he learned from it but i don't have good eyes with him

[@JoicSeth]

Enjoyable gameplay is very hard if not impossible to make when trying to create a top Demon

[@craigmf]

I 10000% agree with the Silent Clubstep point. There will NEVER be a level with a legacy like silent clubsteps verified ever again, and it's really sad because the reason that is, is because a level like Silent Clubstep can never be made again

[@thatoneguy9582]

discounting silent circles because, like, come on

[@craigmf]

@@thatoneguy9582 nobody beating that shit LOL I feel you tho, even if it got verified I doubt it would bring the same amount of hype

[@Black_Diamond31]

silent circles isn’t being verified and if it does, it’s going to be a version that doesn’t mean anything

[@thatoneguy9582]

@@craigmf oh wait i misinterpreted your comment i thought you meant like “there will never be an impossible level with a legacy like silent clubstep again” i think i see what you mean now my bad

[@staringcorgi6475]

@@Black_Diamond31 that level like boj was neutered hard

[@mlau490]

Geometry dash players back then: “We will make a level for years to remember!” Geometry dash players now: “We’ve GOT to have… CLOUT”

[@greefon.]

Basically the same thing

[@ybd]

@@greefon. the first seeks Honor, the second seeks souless clout

[@samamba9702]

Most of the top geometry dash players only play the game as a way to boost their ego, and extreme demon creators only build hard levels for the sake of getting them recognized more easily, two sides of the same attention coin. Im 17 years old, and I have memories of hyping the shit out when GD meltdown was announced, but recently my interest in the game have vanished, and the text above might be the main cause. Geometry dash have the greatest editor, in therms of creative freedom, ive ever seen, you can go from your standard generic level that might not even get rated to a complete Disney animation, both things I said are a form of art, a form of express yourself, even if its not your intention it is still art. And in all of human history, art is something that is always changing, humanity is always searching for different art. But then we have GD, wich seems to be facing backwards, the players are always creating things that already exist, copying the old, and when something new appears, they either shit on it or, if it gets famous, they farm as much as they can, glowstyle, flow gp, Nc style, impossible levels, I can be here all day talking about it, more recently is happening what I like to call "Renn style", the name says it all, levels that have a base on Renn's gp style, generic layout with some lemon's like decoration that sometimes have a quirky gimmick. This is no attack to Renn or people who like his levels, he can create whatever he wants, but it doesnt mean im going to like it. If no artistic revolution happen in the GD community soon all the players are going to be a bunch of kids who have no critic thinking at all. I hope everything I wrote make sense, english is my second language.

[@godzillagod9752]

I agree in the fact that we need a revolution in creating otherwise it will just become stale. Also your English is better then mine and it’s my main language wtf

[@Anxmaly666]

Yeah my enjoyment of the game has been fluctuating constantly due to how everything feels the exact same

[@kenos911]

@@godzillagod9752 l they tried with levelution. Lol Lol Lol Lol Im not saying anything

[@ResinUdongeInaba]

Top demons today are focused on being number 1 to find the skill ceiling, and not being a level that would really be at the top.

[@ResinUdongeInaba]

@@ERRR0RR i meant to say their focus is on difficulty, not quality or novelty. Like how when we look back at past demons like Acropolis which at the time took over the community and forced a debate if timing-based jump orbs should exist. Today, top demons are created only to become top 1. If we go 1 or 2 years in the future, nobody would care about today’s top demon because there would’ve been a new top demon everyone is paying attention to. There isn’t any kind of legacy it would leave other than “former top 1 hardest demon.”

[@עומרטולדנו-ז4ה]

It always felt weird how in the last few years top demons had been replaced only because one person said their opinion about the level's difficulty.

[@SwagLakitu]

Damn i miss the old days where there isnt a “new top 1” level being made every time a child is born

[@MarbleTube_]

I never cared too much about the placements since I knew they were never gonna be right but I've heard so many people say that the list is the only reason they are still playing the game. If we got rid of the list or reverted it back to how the demon list was before, it would probably tank the game's popularity. The best solution imo is the classify levels into difficulty tiers like how Trusta's GDDP does it.

[@thatoneguy9582]

that’s the way games like Beat Saber or ADOFAI do it and presumably many other games i’m pretty sure with different tiers of difficulty going up to like level 31 or level 20

[@Brotherline]

glad to see someone pulling at the roots of the gd community to show its true colors. im glad that the gddp exists because i think it captures what the original demon list was supposed to be like. i dont even know what the pointercrate demonlist even is anymore. because as you and many other people said the placements cant ever be 100% correct, so what are they doing? if they're trying to be as accurate as possible, it doesn't seem as efficient as just categorizing levels as hard, harder and very hard. and for all we know, a level like promethean might be top 5 as of now but the people who beat it just base their difficulty off of the ranking on the demonlist, who uses their opinions to place the levels. overall, i think the pointercrate demonlist is just trying too hard to be "the perfect list" with 100% accurate, detailed placements and the absolute hardest *rated extreme demons*. in reality: no level is objectively their placement, there are too many scattered opinions on people who beat it, and as long as the popularity never dies down, there will never be a "true top 1". but hey, people like hard stuff in gd, so the odds are, there will be no true human limit. just levels that look the same and people who are illusioned to the point where they try to be the next best player. in this reality, there are just too many players to have another truly legendary player. they may come close, but they at most can only stick out like bronze in an earth of brown. it may have been possible to have a clear best player back then, but that status started to blur around 2019. gd just can't be the same as it was. with a new decade came a new community for geometry dash. New best players, but still the same best levels. And eventually, the current best players will too, run out of motivation for gd. TLDR; geometry dash is too popular to be what it was before and the pointercrate demonlist is trying too hard.

[@specul4r]

I still am amused by the demon list because im always getting impressed by levels such as "Jesse Pinkman" or "Walter white"

[@arii_how]

yeah, and Saul Goodman

[@asrieldremmurr3538]

Shitty attention seeking levels they don't even relate to the name

[@dryb0nes-gmd]

the fact that walter white is higher up than zodiac and kenos

[@notdevstar8714]

I remember how hype top demons used to be, prime examples such as Bloodbath, Yatagarasu, and Bloodlust, they were very rare and would generate huge hype, but at this point it just feels like a new "top 1" is made every week, just a ton of bland levels with no real personality.

[@notdevstar8714]

Well the levels i listed were only examples, theres more levels such phobos and the sonic wave being extremely hype

[@silverdragon2462]

What's sad is that the eventual decline of the demonlist will heavily correlate with the decline of Geometry Dash. GD has had a great run, but as of now the only source of "hype" for the game is the verification of these top demons. Nothing else comes close; 3dash was fun but short-lived, and in general non-extreme levels get forgotten after a day. Without the release of 2.2, there is going to be a steady decrease in interest in GD.

[@cilian8462]

It does feel as if the game's life depends on top demons verifications nowadays, never noticed that before

[@snakeshake7381]

3dash short lived? What happened to it

[@silverdragon2462]

@@snakeshake7381 Nothing happened to it, it's a great game. I just mean in the long run, it *probably* won't do anything to reignite interest in GD. I could (and hope) I'm wrong though

[@RealTurska64]

Hey, guess what

[@_simon.s_]

We'll never get a moment like Bloodbath or Bloodlust ever again. I remember the time where everyone was so excited when Knobbelboy dropped the verification video. I think it reached 1M views within a day. That's insane for this community. But nowadays top demons are mass-produced with new ones coming out every month. I never bat an eye and give the smallest amount of acknowledgement whenever they come out.

[@elugaporp_2]

Petition for a "good level list" instead of a shitty biased demon list

[@elugaporp_2]

@@ERRR0RR because the current demon list is dickriding slaughterhouse into oblivion

[@fierymaximan865]

Back when DanzMen as a mod, he send levels mostly not glow focus or too much glow blandness. DanzMen himself hates glow so much and I can see his levels represents him as a creator and player. He said that the level works not because of glow but because of how you create it, especially color usage. In my opinion, this guy has warned us ahead of time

[@ImWaffleSheep]

Here's a thought: When someone beats a stupidly hard level, do they beat it for the 10 stars, or do they beat it because they want to beat the level? So why does it matter if a hard level gets rated or not? When someone beats VSC, they don't get stars or literally anything except being able to say 'I beat VSC', which in and of itself should be enough to want to beat the level. So why does it matter whether a level gets rated or not. People should want to beat levels for the sense of accomplishment, and they shouldn't be limited by what levels are or aren't rated.

[@lordhelicas]

I genuinely think that more people should make Insane Demons. I think it’s the perfect balance of difficulty and the ability to make fun gameplay. There’s not much reason in my opinion to make extreme demons as opposed to making insane demons, where the difficulty is low enough that you don’t get bored or sick of grinding the level, but you can still make challenging and fun gameplay.

[@stanstanmansan]

this

[@cubix015]

Insane demon is too hard for the average player

[@lordhelicas]

@@cubix015 so are extreme demons lmao

[@3mknwef]

@@cubix015 extreme demons are littarly Impossible for average players

[@cubix015]

@@3mknwef with hhr monitors and better hard and software more people could beat extremes

[@v5hr1ke]

Finally, someone said what I wanted to say at 16:17. Mobile players can't keep up nowadays, especially for me. Even the best top mobile players have yet to beat Acheron after months of its release. Top demons are very stale nowadays, and I agree. But in the end, it is entirely up to the GD community on their choices that they wanna make. I don't wanna waste time on a very difficult level that I don't enjoy, and I'm glad that I stayed as a casual searching for the most elegant levels out there. I only beat demons to at least improve my skill and save time in the long run, so yes, thanks Stormy.

[@19Ronny]

mobile players will likely never beat levels like acheron. pretty sure the hardest demon for us is still crimson planet. update: it’s actually aerial gleam currently, with bloodlust at #2 and crimson planet at #3 on the GD HRR Mobile List (High Refresh Rate)

[@kkasfa1596]

​@@19RonnyHeck, 60hz mobile players suffer even more.

[@19Ronny]

@@kkasfa1596 yep, and I’m one of them, but I’m more of a creator than a player anyway so I’m alright ig.

[@bmrabbit]

maybe i am biased and nostalgia blind but i miss the times when 70% of the demon grinders were also top players that could beat many old top demons also i love the idea of having a list that just lists hardest demons not in any order

[@Lunaticboi956]

same

[@FrogsGD]

The Top Demons have just become a pissing contest between the same 5 players to see who can get the worst level to be slightly harder then the others.

[@dashinking]

I've found the constant attention around the demon list and comparing players to be so boring, because it seems like a lot of people just want to idolize levels for being the "top 1 hardest demon" and nothing else. I already find a lot of easy extremes to be pretty flawed so high list demons just seem like ass to suffer through

[@LordVadercraft]

The harder levels get the more enjoyable they are to play normally, there’s a lot more room for every death to be your fault rather than the levels fault and it feels way more fair

[@Anxmaly666]

@@LordVadercraft true

[@dashinking]

I get that but I swear every extreme has such horrible balancing that it makes the rest of it feel trivial. There's a lot of demons I wanna beat but they're ruined by chokepoints even if I like everything else

[@IconicGD]

As a creator, this video relates to me a lot. There are so much dogshit hard levels to the put where no easy ones are appreciated. I apperceive more easier levels much more than harder ones. Many people who say the demonlist is fine is mainly ignoring a lot of issues with inaccessibility and the repetitiveness of extreme demons. As a 60hz player, I only have two options to even talk about beating a list demon and it's gotten to a point that mainly levels on the list just become irrelevant after a bit of time.I have been considering releasing demonlist levels with high quality put in them that is not just very boring. Also this video is awesome and I hope I see more videos like this from you in the future.

[@andrioserkanogaming6342]

Every video mentioning top demons or space uk just hits different now.

[@Onvil_]

the contents keep getting better and im all for it

[@gablor]

Tbh I’m kinda glad Kowareta is and probably will be my only Creator points. It was (at the time) something not really seen before but was sadly remade and put into the ground in under a year lmao

[@shroomian2739]

The event that pretty much broke my interest in top one levels was the swap of Slaughterhouse and Sakupen Circles. I remember how the community went batshit over SkC’s verification, and to be honest, considering the levels history and the immense effort put in by cursed and diamond, I was also very excited by it. But the hype just kind of died the instant that it lost the top one spot. There was a tiny argument over twitter, but eventually even the verifier and first victor, both of whom having invested countless hours and 200k+ attempts into it, moved onto harder levels as if nothing had ever happened. Seeing how quickly the demonlist community turned its back on any level that left the spotlight was just the last straw

[@SUSsykage]

What you say illustrates everything wrong about the demonlist: the Top 1 position is revered while the rest are discarded once they're dethroned from that position. To me, the idea of podium positions for a system which tries to deduce what is the hardest and what isn't based on a subjective consensus is probably one of the most absurd ideas that has reaped what it sowed. Ranked lists that use a podium structure simply do more harm than good to a level's reputation because once you strip the level's rank in the list, there's nothing left for it to show. Using Slaughterhouse as an example, once you strip that "Top 1" title away, there's very little that makes it standout as a memorable level, besides it being a super-hard, red, mostly-wave/ship demon - which you could use to describe a lot of other levels in existence. Everyone clamours for that top 1 position, but any other positions and that deems the level (by the community's "standards") as close enough to worthlessness as it could be; "what's the point of the level if it doesn't break top 1?"

[@Cry0nixq]

As a current top 50 player on the statsviewer everything in this video said is absolutely true. This game has been on a nonstop downward spiral since tartarus was dethroned. It proved that levels now are so ridiculously hard that the only way you can complete them is by sitting at ur monitor 4+ hours a day trying to get even semi consistent at some bullshit wave/ship/muscle memory part. I know from experience from playing levels like trueffet, hard machine, and the golden (Might seem kinda hypocritical since my best gamemode is wave but yea).But it is insane how much time you have to spend just to even complete one of these levels and since you can see since like 2017 sort of, all of the top players have all been like under 16 me included. It just proves that time has overtaken skill in this game and I really wish it werent that way. Anyone trying to go against this video is in denial of what is happening. I really hope we can maybe one day have good levels back at the top but at this point I think we have been too far gone now. The only good levels I would consider in the top 20 are Kenos, Verdant and yea thats really it tbh. Also ik this might seem like a hot take but anyone who is spending 100k+ attempts on a level just to beat it, its really not worth having a hard level attatched to your name at this point. Even for someone like me the game is way too much at this point where I am sitting at 26 in the golden brute forcing my head into the wall just so I can do a wave part just to die to another ship or wave part. And as i've gotten older ive realized how much my placement on an opinionated list really and truly doesnt matter at all. It kinda reminds me of cookie clicker but instead of having to leave the game on and do smtn else you have to be there the whole time while being tortured in the process. I really dont think anyone could have made this video better than you and thank you for saying some stuff ive been thinking about for a month now.

[@cyberz55]

As a former cookie clicker player, pretty much most of middlegame is just being idle the whole time. By the time you reached lategame, it's more of a juggle between being active (clicking for click frenzies) and idle (waiting for wrinklers to reach a full ring and popping them). However, things have probably changed a lot since last year I played, so I might be wrong. Still though, I do agree about it being pure torture

[@bettercalldelta]

I've always felt like I don't fit in the GD community because I don't like just endlessly talking about some hard levels like an NPC and only changing topic when a new bland forgettable mostly similar hard level comes out. But this video actually proved that there are more people who share my viewpoint.

[@granda3649]

Honestly this explains why challenges are becoming more popular. They're straightforward, they don't need to take themselves seriously, they're satisfying to pull off, and you don't have to waste your life beating them.

[@fazehank5311]

no

[@8johh]

u do have to waste ur life trying to beat challenge levels actually

[@SycipsGD]

Every time Stormfly uploads, my third eye opens a little bit more

[@lauridsen1381]

Lmao it's because all the levels are megacollabs now a days made by 14 year olds who want to become the next big creators while simultaneously convincing others to do the same.

[@noahbobo4138]

I personally strongly agree with this, and i'm talking from personal experience. About a year ago, I was actually ADDICTED to grinding out extreme demons and seeing the list change a lot made me so happy for this game. Then came nhelv. I decided to try a top 50 demon one day, and nhelv was the one I chose. In the beginning, I really liked playing this level. But I didn't know how long it would take to actually beat it. I would spend 4-6 hours a day grinding nhelv, and near the end i just felt burnt out, and I really didn't like the level that much, due to a lot of bugs that would occur while playing it. When I finally completed Nhelv, 2 months and 23,182 attempts have gone by, and with that, a hit of extreme demotivation came to me. I just didn't feel like playing the game anymore, and I stopped caring for top demons and stuff. It was until a few months after I beat nhelv that i realized how bad the demonlist actually was, and how it has changed my prespective on geometry dash for the worst.

[@ickyy1]

wow i can relate to every single word!!

[@ickyy1]

i actually beat nhelv in 23182 attempts too and spent 4-6 hours a day on it

[@ickyy1]

i was addicted to grinding extreme demons but now i dont

[@ickyy1]

i learned the demonlist was bad

[@noahbobo4138]

@@ickyy1 i can confirm this

[@LiterallyJustOVEN]

I have to agree. I started playing in late 2014-early 2015 and while I never really played the game not much, was still astonished at levels like bloodbath and TUP. But after leaving the game when the rgb was a thing and coming back to the golden/Tartarus I was shocked. But then I slowly realised that top demons aren’t special anymore. When I saw that Acheron was verified I just didn’t react. I didn’t feel like this was a very special event since it’s probably going to be dethroned in a year or so. It isn’t special anymore knowing that we will never hit the skill limit. Thank you stormfly for making this video.

[@VexxR22]

The categorized demon thing was exactly what I was thinking. Numbering down demons is a bad way of displaying difficulty.

[@TheRealVodun13]

Yes, especially when nobody can come to a solid agreement on anything. Demons constantly change place because opinions fluctuate amidst the community as well as the list moderators

[@SUSsykage]

Just looking at how the demonlist changes every so often is a *MASSIVE* indication that ranking levels in a podium-like fashion is perhaps one of the worst systems implemented for such a purpose. In fact, it outright doesn't work because of how it is supposed to function versus how it is being used right now: podium placements are designed specifically for competitions and ranking how well someone does to another person. And once they have served their purpose in rewarding the people who have participated, the entire list is scrapped and is done with a new set of participants. The demonlist has essentially misused a system that was never intended for keeping 150 participants for a non-competitive scene.

[@ForevrrFury]

i think i first noticed this when Space would beat literally any top demon and have a pissed off reaction every time. he seemed to not enjoy anything

[@notthatntg]

"I beat Arcturus, I think yes"

[@puli36]

@@notthatntg lol none of spaces completions are actually legit (using cheats) but the community deems them as legit bc the demonlist says so

[@clobzz]

@@puli36 how are they not legit

[@abicto]

@@notthatntg bro doesnt even care anymore

[@LordVadercraft]

That’s kinda just space having an awful mindset cause he’s just got so much raw skill

[@HJfod]

I think that for me, the first sign of things to come was the release of Zodiac. I remember my first thoughts seeing it were "if this was rated 4* no one would care about it". Today's list is like if it consisted only of Zodiacs; they are boring as fuck. Top demons are interesting only to the 0.0001% who can play and beat them; to the rest of us who see these levels through the player journeys they inspire and the decoration they have, they're unimaginative, boring, and soulless. I don't think this is limited to just Top 1s either; I think this has applied to megacollabs and levels as a whole for the whole of late 2.1. Every level is now so cookie-cutter polished and immensely detailed that it has lost all meaning. I remember when Woodkid and GE were first previewed and how everyone lost their minds over it, not only because they had an unprecedented level of detail but even moreso because the levels had completely unique designs and ideas. And we do still have interesting and unique levels; I have always adored JonathanGD's levels because they shine with the soul and care put into each one, Future Funk is miles better than 99% of the levels on the demonlist. I wish we got more levels like Hatred, Erebus, Bloodbath, etc. where the level had memorable things other than just difficulty.

[@CoingamerFL]

I agree. I remember being so mad when Zodiac came out because I loved Bloodlust being a top 1 lol

[@exiled_shadegd]

The best chances I can see of something even remotely close to being as hyped as Bloodlust is Galaxy Collapse or Orochi (if they get verified by their respective popular hosts)

[@couldbeahuman8079]

if top demons are actually dying out I’m actually super happy since the game feels like it’ll eventually become more accessible for the average player to get on the demon list. and creators will focus more on quality rather than difficulty. It feels like top demons have just been coming out quicker and quicker though

[@cecolon9729]

You know, I was recently having a discussion about your previous video on art criticism that really motivated me to instead appreciate the spirit of older levels. It's almost like I feel something playing an older level than when I'm playing a newer one. Difficult levels that were released today don't have this effect on me anymore because all I see is a new top demon getting rated, most of which are old impossible levels that make up over half of the top 20 at this point, and I'm like "oh well". The only level that has really sparked some sort of light in my soul this year was a 4 or 5 star Unzor level because it made me feel immersed in the level. This video enlightened me more on this issue and another issue where creating becomes sort of demotivating On actually beating these, I appreciate what people are able to accomplish because they are incredible feats. However, as a person that actually has a life and can only play the game for certain periods of time, but has built up nearly 2500 hours since 2015 have only beaten a total of 6 rated extreme demons and one unrated one. The main reason why I beat a specific few of them is because I loved them and I didn't feel the necessity to spend countless hours to try and beat a level out of my skill range. The demonlist has kinda encouraged people to continue doing this and strive for the top 150 but for most people like me, either I don't want to because I'm going to implode or I take time out of what is right now my college life going for a bachelors just to beat a difficult level in a video game. It's really a shame that there's a community in this game that is effectively making the game more uninteresting as time goes on. I applaud the creator of the game to allow for creativity within the playerbase, for them to show off what they can do, on the other hand the community enforcing policy on these creations almost makes the game feel more restricted in terms of creating. It's almost as if unique levels now come once in a blue moon and levels that push difficulty are being released one after another. Unfortunately, with the spotlight on the latter, interesting levels have been almost phased out My message to all creators and myself, the GD editor is like a blank canvas with your blocks as your pallet, where you can make whatever is in your imagination, so don't be afraid to experiment. Sky's the limit, but don't try and create something to ensure it gets rated due to difficulty or doing just enough. My message to players, Don't be forced to bite off more than you can chew. Play the levels you want to. It's unnecessary to try and reach for a level the top 150 because it will net you nothing more than list points and ego, but if you really want to, the challenge is there, nobody's going to stop you, and props to you for taking it on. (because I definitely don't want to)

[@Sushi-dw3or]

Even now, the most different "top 1" is poocubed. All the community wants is a short hit of a new epic level, that is over in a flash, not a slow burn of beauty.

[@ChilliusVGM]

This video is so true, and I think my personal progression proved to myself that this is true, once I beat artificial ascent I kind of called it a day with extremes in Geometry Dash because they really did fall once 2.0 ended

[@LeifY1337]

Every 2 weeks - a month there is a new top 1

[@electricnoob6970]

I came back to GD recently (I quit in early 2021) and Tartarus went from #1 to #9. The game is just way too fucking hard lol

[@blackmad2000]

Same. I quit in early 2019 and I already thought the game was too hard after Zodiac was placed 1#. Now seeing that not only Tartarus got verified, but that it's #9 and Zodiac is now #17 is like WTF.

[@Anxmaly666]

Oh boy

[@bmrabbit]

its more time consuming than hard nowadays...

[@ecksdee6376]

I remember back in the day when the list was like this: #1 Zodiac #2 Kenos #3 Crimson Planet #4 Bloodlust #5 Deimos

[@Turtleblade]

Bloodbath is completely off the list and artificial ascent is almost out of the main 100

[@PencilNova]

I honestly agree, top 1s are stale, take a look at the top 10 now, basically all of them are star rated and suck enjoyability wise, also i agreed that we should return to the old method of ranking, because first, this number method is innaccurate and second, this whole top 1 race would stop, and maybe (*MAYBE*) people could actually try to care about the quality of extreme demons nowadays, since extreme demons nowadays are just shitholes with bullshit, and not to mention this goddamn community where apparently if you dont beat an extreme you have a skill issue.

[@Anxmaly666]

Yeah the amount of times i got called a "bad player" and got hit with "skill issue" just because i never beat anything above hard demon is just ridiculous. I dont need to beat a level to voice my opinion of it

[@staringcorgi6475]

Cursed who’s one of the best players thinks that silent club and hard machine are top 5 demons iirc which they’re not according to the list which is why it’s not accurate

[@jotzyjostrazar5817]

@@Anxmaly666 Especially when, combining Hard Demon, Insane Demon and Extreme Demon, they make less than the 1% of the totality of On-Line levels. This means that beating an Hard Demons means that you beat a level that is in the 99% of the max difficulty the game can offer. Extreme Demon are only the 0.2% of the On-Line Levels, and List Demon are 0.07% of the on-line levels. In a few word: even beating an Hard Demon make you a very good player and is stupid thinking otherwise.

[@Catani99]

For anyone wondering, it’s my video of the bar chart which appears from around 5:53. Super interesting video!

[@3vanescent]

The amount of only star rated extremes in the top 10 is stupid. It shows that quality is way too low in these levels, not even enough to be featured. Great vid stormy, ur points are all valid

[@sariastuff3150]

Feature/no-feature is not indicative of quality. So many good levels remain unfeatured. So many garbage ones are.

[@zmitter4844]

@Stariastuff that only applies to levels that are rated- the top 8 only being rated and not featured definitely does indicate a lower quality which is really sad imo

[@razman5993]

@@zmitter4844 Or it could be indicative that RobTop simply does not care about the community's overfixation of top 1s (why do you think some take ages to get rated?), and just throws a rate at them to get people to stop begging for them.

[@zmitter4844]

@@razman5993 Yeah, but that's opposed to him leaving them unrated indefinitely which is what some of them deserve based on their quality

[@hormigatomic1]

a star rated top demon means robtop only rated it because of its difficulty and it doesnt meet the standard

[@Toadstar0]

Honestly, couldn't agree more.

[@mykramusic]

The time gap thing is something I've been thinking about for a while, and it's cool to see that other people are catching on

[@pickle2814]

This honestly might be the most insightful and informative video on the demon list. This covers every problem with the demon list and solutions on how to improve it. Amazing job on this video, this is phenomenal.

[@cosmy]

I’ve been really wanting the demon list to return to loogiah’s original idea ever since I heard it, the GDDP definitely has a better approach to difficulty and I haven’t cared about the list since I started playing it.

[@plazma127]

You phrase most of what ive thought for ages better than i ever could, good job.

[@KaiGuyGD]

Great video

[@feriyanto6702]

no one reply and like this lol

[@thegalacticspy7686]

Honestly that one comment summed it up really well: creators don’t want to make fun top 1s if only the very best players can enjoy them

[@xendlevel]

bro got that lyndell royal capital playing in the background

[@xendlevel]

+ good video, i agree with a lot of it, i’ve absolutely fallen into the crowd of making top 1 levels

[@bmrabbit]

@@xendlevel Wndlevel

[@Itzarzky]

6:52 i find this fact to be the most single important piece of information when trying to get good at this game its not (really) abt pure and raw skill, its abt the devotion to the amount of time you dedicate to GD. given an infinite amount of time you can pour into gd, I guarantee you that anyone could beat Firework in abt a week if they played GD constantly. and this is a problem with those who have busy lives but love GD.

[@coolcatcastle8]

bro if you give anyone an infinite amount of time then original silent circles will be beaten

[@solarion13]

good video, even though I'm still very active and interested in gd and its community I must admit that you are correct about this. having a new top 1 demon come out every like 2 weeks is not good for the game at all.

[@playboikaniiii]

i can't count how many top 1 megacollabs with a bunch of random creators and undistinguishable deco from each other i've seen

[@virtualdash]

I REALLY agree with this video. I just saw a preview for The Human Limit, and it feels completely identical to almost all of the current top levels. People need to realize that making difficultly the main focus of your level almost always leads to unfun and unoriginal levels

[@johndanielsaffold428]

One option for classifying is a generation-based system. The basics would be a list that would break up the history of the game by generations (i.e. 1.9-2.0, early 2.1, late 2.1, etc.) and sort maps that were considered difficult for each of those times into the mini-lists. This could better work for ranking overall difficulty because average difficulty always increases with each generation of maps released. Generations would be separated by landmark map releases in each update that set a new standard for difficulty. I hope this made sense.

[@pocke_]

11:29 100% agree. its crazy how much bs controversy has happened just because the dl levels need to be rated

[@Meper]

The dl levels if every legitimate verified level was placed would be WAY more garbage i think but i do agree that if almost all the top levels are garbage why not just go all in. Acheron, GoS (i think lol), Slaughterhouse, TTV, VSC, AoD, Sakupen Circles, Silent Clubstep, Mayhem, and Tenkai would be prob not the new top 10 but all those would be around top 10. That line up of levels is probably not the good. Acheron, Slaughterhouse, AoD, and Mayhem(ish) are all just pushes of skill, GoS and VSC are basically spam challenges (especially GoS lol), Silent Clubstep and Sakupen Circles are just old, poorly made old impossible levels (or almost poorly made) and finally Tenkai which is a 2p level (but it was beaten solo somehow). I dont know nothin about how these play but most top players have said somethin along the lines of that.

[@exiled_shadegd]

I think so too, there are some amazing unrated levels

[@2dw811]

the amount of people in the comments saying how they have the same thoughts about the demonlist explains why so many people quit this game and then came back after some time, maybe because they have this realization of how bad the list demons have been getting, but after some time they start playing the game again and play easier levels and having a good time instead of the daily top 1 and wasting 200 hours per week on them

[@kilargo4588]

Tartarus was the last top 1 verification where I actually felt something. Every other top 1 verification since then I have felt nothing but bland.

[@Luksa175]

100% agree with this video. When I, for the first time, lost interest in the game in mid 2018 one of the main reasons even back then was the demise of the demons list and it filling up with trash demons with no legacy whatsoever and the sole intention of being really difficult. This effect only worsened over the years and especially after 2020. I think we really just need a new update to give players something else to think about.

[@tjcurlyfries]

bare in mind we've been stuck in the same update for over 5 years, how do you expect people to come up with completely unique designs and gameplay??

[@ytkerfuffles6429]

^

[@bmrabbit]

um little creativity? i can kinda agree that its hard to think of something interesting but its still possible, just look for example on Nhelv ( i know its not a top 1 and tbh i am happy that it is not)

[@Lunaticboi956]

look outside of the top levels, there's actually quite a few creative levels that aren't trying to be number 1. If you can't come up with creative ideas on your own, you can easily look back to 1.9 and get some inspiration to cook up a genuinely interesting level. The problem is that people use a template instead of even attempting to come up with something off the top of their head

[@kenos911]

@@Lunaticboi956 “go back to 1.9” lol bro wanna know how shit like idols gets made? Imagine a super buff of that

[@Lunaticboi956]

@@kenos911 still, 1.9 had a limited editor and yet people still created more diverse levels than most of the list in 2.1

[@sleepmedicine165]

literally most of the top 50 levels, the creator cares more about difficulty than anything else. awesome video, thanks for bringing this up as the top 5 right now is in ruins

[@gdartho]

As a mobile stargrinder I really dislike how list grinders try to make other people’s accomplishments look smaller than theirs because they don’t play on a pc with an fps hack. The fact the you are playing the top 10 just shows that you have almost unlimited time to spend grinding bad levels that you will never be consistent at and just hope an attempt works, while using a hack to make the broken game easier for yourself. This is clearly not how gd was ever intended to be played.

[@OpposingPhoenix]

I’m no “demons list fanatic,” but it really sucks to see how it’s been. I personally don’t like when levels are made just to be difficult. Some top players even state sometimes that top levels just aren’t very fun. Maybe it’s just because my favorite demons (That I’ve beaten) are ones that look great with passion put into the decoration, or ones with a unique art direction. It also kinda sucks when the community focus on the difficulty of extreme demons rather than the art direction, ‘cause I’m not saying levels can’t look good and be difficult. Like Black Blizzard for example. When KrmaL (Krazyman50 at the time) was making the level, he stated that it was gonna be his best and hardest level. Then *most* of the community focused on the difficulty. In other words, awesome video.