The Genetic Heritage Of The Marines Malevolent - 40K Theories

The Marines Malevolent are one of the most hated and vilified chapters of the Adeptus Astartes, despite their fierce loyalty to The Emperor. But from which of the first founding legions could they be descended from?
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[@TheVladdracula1]

The inquisitor that investigated them.for chaos corruption, probably: "They're not corrupted. They're just assholes."

[@eduardextreme4387]

Probably the best description for this chapter 🤣

[@nidnoms3622]

they attacked Nocturne, home world of the Salamanders with the Chaos warband known as the Dragon Warriors, they should be excommunicated and branded traitors by now, but your imperium sucks at keeping shit in check so...

[@theboredguy2107]

TheVladdracula1 thats saying something considering its an inquisitor

[@mashedmatt]

Probably more like "Hey, we like your style!"

[@pailhorsegaming6762]

Literally came here to comment this

[@heckinmemes6430]

"When the inquisition glasses a whole planet, no one bats an eye." "We vaporize a couple thousand, and suddenly everyone loses their goddamn mind."

[@user-unos111]

The difference is, when the Inquisition does it, it is a last measure to stop chaos corruption or a xenos infestation, ver likely giving these human a mercy kill. The Malevolents, in the other hand, always choose tactics which causes unnecesary collateral damage as a first option and go out of their way to screw their allies. Not to the mention, they openly despise actual humans. Key difference here.

[@angelofthedead1886]

@@user-unos111 So they hate humans more than black templars and iron warrios?

[@redherring5016]

@@angelofthedead1886 The Templar are bros with humanity, being some of the few SMs we see fight alongside the guard. They just hate cowards, witches, and mutants. As for the Iron Warriors, they're filthy traitors so their opinion is irrelevant.

[@Detahramet]

@@angelofthedead1886 The Black Templars loathe the mutant, the heretic, and the xeno. The Iron Hands loathe the flesh compared to the glorious machine. Both still fight to protect humanity, and do no not hate humanity itself, simply its flaws and mutations. They are zealots, and go to great extremes to destroy that which they loathe. The Marines Malevolent, by contrast, loathe humanity. They aren't zealots, however, as they do not actively try to destroy what they loathe out of overzealous rage. They're just giant inflamed assholes.

[@Cemtexify]

@@user-unos111 I don't know man, the months of shame was basically their 1st resort

[@Big_E_Soul_Fragment]

When something bad happens to the chapter: Lamenters: Aw you poor things Marines Malevolent: and nothing of value was lost

[@spartanalex9006]

No, it's a net gain for the universe at large and humanity in particular.

[@theoverpreparerlamenters3r436]

@@spartanalex9006 say sike right now.

[@spartanalex9006]

@@theoverpreparerlamenters3r436 I meant for the Marines Malevolent. You wholesome yellow bois are too good for this sinful universe.

[@somerandomschmuck2547]

Best part is this could apply both to how said chapters view the loss of imperial citizens, and how the fandom generally responds to said chapters suffering.

[@PALACIO254]

The thing is something bad happens to the malevolent they just say "fuck it you wanna just stomp some farmers?"

[@andrewmcnally5013]

The Marines Malevolent are a """"""Loyalist""""""" chapter of the Adeptus Astartes.

[@PelinalWhitestrake36]

like the dark angels!

[@joshbunton6424]

Much like the thousand suns the Marines Malevolent have done nothing wrong

[@renuduner2]

@@PelinalWhitestrake36 WE ARE LOYALIST, ASMODAI MAKE HIM REPENTS FOR IS HERETICALS WORD

[@PelinalWhitestrake36]

Renaud Bergeron *pulls off helmet to reveal its a Custodes Excuse you? Wanna get brazen drake’d ?

[@renuduner2]

@@PelinalWhitestrake36 *Pulls off helmets to revel that it was in fact I, Cato Sicarius, that was hiding in the armor of Azrael, bceause I, Cato Sicarius is the best infiltrator in the entire Imperium, because I, Cato Sicarius, has the mission to find and destroy all the enemy of the Imperium, because I, Cato Sicarius is the greatest of them all, and I, Cato Sicarius had the idea to pass as somebody else than I, Cato Sicarius, in that case a supposed traitor of the first legion, I, Cato Sicarius would NEVER bertay the Manperor en Mankind in one hundred thousand year, because I, Cato Sicarius, is the most loyal servent of the Manperium of Mankind.

[@5680009]

*A planet is under assault, all hope seems lost until a Space Marine strike cruiser tranisitions into the system "Oh God Emperor, the Space marines are here!" Sees that its the Marines Malevolent _"Oh God Emperor no the Space Marines are here!"_

[@simonboulton1964]

Funny.

[@forickgrimaldus8301]

Laugh in malevelence

[@matics453]

Emperor have Mercy on us

[@marckevinjavier1897]

Planet under attack by chaos or xenos threat: We should call in for reinforcements. Imperium of Man: How about we send you the Marines Malevolent. Planet: You know what fam? Just don't. There's enough problem as it is we don't need another one.

[@nukclear2741]

ON YOUR GUARD, MARINES!!!

[@TheMemphisxlr8]

Their origins were purposely lost, due to the fact that no other chapter wants to associate with them.

[@ragnerschwarzmane3412]

Not even the iron warriors.

[@julianpourdanesh3339]

These marines make their recruits play No Russian and only pick the ones who want to replay it to get a higher score

[@henrypaleveda7760]

what's "No Russian?"

[@corbingarrison7167]

@@henrypaleveda7760a VERY DARK CoD mission from MW2 you play as a CIA agent disguised as a terrorist

[@henrypaleveda7760]

@@corbingarrison7167 hence not wanting to replay it for most people. Or wanting to replay it for the sake of a higher score be particularly disturbing?

[@corbingarrison7167]

@@henrypaleveda7760 replaying it cause you want to do that mission in particular. It’s a good indicator of the tone of the game

[@HirotheWanderer]

They forgot to disable friendly fire in every mission that they where deployed

[@SixWingZombi]

"forgot"

[@pathos9615]

They didn't forget. They turned it ON.

[@kalebb1226]

I'm going to guess and say that these guys inspired the angry marines.

[@Aljhaqu]

@@kalebb1226 :Trying to make the angriest impression of the AM: DO YOU THINK SO, *** OF A **** ****** OF ***** ... :keeps vituperating nonsense out loud: ...

[@domc9801]

Lol he said FORGOT

[@internetzenmaster8952]

*Orks (probably Blood Axes):* Wez takin' deez humies hostage, now da beakies will have to fight us up close an' proppa. *Marines Malevolent:* Thats' where you're wrong bucko. _unleashes whirlwind artillery_ *Salamanders and Orks:* WOT?!

[@glenmcgillivray4707]

Angry Marines. FUUUUUUUUUUU *Smashes face with powerchainfists* 'UUUUUCK YOOOUUUUUU'! *Absence of Orks in the system*

[@krashface4870]

*Surviva ork boss to Tu'shan*: you green an' orkie, me orkiest an' green... want t' krump sum' spess murinez? *Tu'shan looks at Marine Malevolent*: That's good to me.

[@HealingBlight]

Normal Humans are "not worthy" because they were not "brave" enough to fight orks with only a 2:1 numerical advantage. Superhuman demigods with insane training and protection.... proceed to shoot at the orks from miles away. OH THAT'S WHAT PASSES FOR BRAVERY?

[@glenmcgillivray4707]

@@HealingBlight I dare say it is not entirely fair to expect standard template humans to the same standard as set by Sly Marbo. Regardless clearly they expect better of their brothers in arms.

[@roguepsykerhaaker4813]

@@krashface4870 radical inquisitor: I'll let it slide Puritan inquisitor: I know I'm supposed to feel angry about this, but I don't for some reason

[@AngelWolf12]

They're "loyalist" Death Guard Blackshields descendant from Crysos Morturg's post Heresy Independent Company. In the short stories about Crysos and his band they're stationed aboard the battle barge the Malevolence and they refer to themselves as the Marines of the Malevolence.

[@dashiellgillingham4579]

My god, you’ve done it; you’ve found the name drop. It’s canon now.

[@thechazz3230]

Can I get the names of the books? This sounds important.

[@AngelWolf12]

@@thechazz3230 Okay so I'll do this in chronological order from how things play out from Crysos's perspective. The Horus Heresy card game established Crysos as a loyalist Death Guard, and the Malevolence as a Death Guard Ship The Short Story Blackshield establishes Crysos Mortug and his band are Blackshields use the Malevolence to hunt down isolated traitor forces, and at the end of the story he determines its time to go back to the Imperium and Terra to meet the Emperor. Horus Heresy 30k Book 1: Betrayal is told from his perspective, he's the narrator. It establishes he was an ex-librarian, assigned to the Destroyers of his Legion after the Edict, and he was part of the loyalist drops onto Istvaan 3. He survives the war along with several dozen loyalist from the other Legions, and escapes the planet on captured shuttles with the help of loyalist Mechanicus, and take the Malevolence as their ship. In the end of the narrative part of the book it lists the narrative as being from Crysos's testimony in front of Dorn and Malcador Horus Heresy 30k Book 6 : Retribution they introduce rules for BlackShield Pirate warbands. They give descriptions of various origins, loyalist turned traitor, traitors turned loyalists, independents, etc and list a few, The Dark Brotherhood, The Ashen Claws, the Umbral Hundred, and the Marines of the Malevolence. Later in the same book in a narrative section there is an astropathic report to the High Lords, dated 10 years after the Heresy ends, in which Captain Cyrsos Mortug of the 108th Independent Company aboard the Malevolence in investigating odd occurrences in the Ghoul Stars. So its not 1000% sure, but I think the bread crumbs are there. Its at least the theory with the most evidence behind it.

[@benjaminargus9563]

@@AngelWolf12 evidence supports your argument more then any other so id have to agree, also could mean a mixed genetic stock as their basis which is pretty cool too

[@Martmeisterpaladin]

Mortarion was also opposed to psykers, just like the Marines Malevolent.

[@spaceninja7687]

When even the Black templers think your chapter's gone overboard with the reckless endangerment of human life, you know something is wrong.

[@venom0825]

The black templars dont really care about that, as long as it gets the job done. Its there cowardly methods and over all untrustworthy nature, that makes the BT hate them.

[@kishinasura1504]

@@venom0825 tbf the Black Templars hate nearly everybody...

[@Sarindanvelor]

@@kishinasura1504 tbf their original chapter master was so badass abbadon juiced up on chaos was scarred to hell of him

[@imperatornoinga3646]

*right

[@VallornDeathblade]

@@Sarindanvelor "Here's Sigismund's body back. He's such an insane badass that if I kept him on my ship like a trophy then he'd probably get up and try to strangle me out of sheer bloody mindedness." ~ Abaddon

[@jeremybrimmer1990]

Marines: land Death Korps: sad shovel noise Marines: malevolent Death Korps: happy shovel noise

[@brandonaughtman9091]

They have to be from the Iron Warriors, they act like their dad all too much.

[@georgevanderslice9720]

Much agreed. Their emblem is even just a modified Fast Attack emblem of the Iron Warriors

[@Skysharmen]

Yet you have the Minotaurs who are near confirmed Iron Warriors successors and they don’t have that ceramite stick up their asses

[@CynicalPete]

Wintergreen we talking about the same Minotaurs? They give no shits about the casualties they cause

[@rayhankazianga6817]

@@Skysharmen minotaurs? They don't have a ceramite stick up their asses, they have an imperator class titan in there.

[@Joan1Marti]

I was thinking that they sound so Night Lords.

[@gryphonofmight]

I suspect loyalist iron warriors

[@ayanleman]

...they have apporpriate shitbird energy

[@gryphonofmight]

@@ayanleman that they do

[@Deridus]

The real tell would be to have them meet up with the Imperial Fists...

[@forickgrimaldus8301]

Angry fortress noises

[@Maxibon2007]

[sad Silver Skulls noises: But we’re NICE!…we just like keeping the skulls of enemies around…

[@ZeroNumerous]

They've got to be Iron Warriors Loyalists. Because they act like Perturabo did throughout pre-Heresy and the Heresy.

[@connorcmsmith4302]

ZeroNumerous they could be remaining loyalists of the iron warriors who weren’t killed in the heresy

[@troublewakingup]

@@connorcmsmith4302 I doubt that, maybe the geneseed is of the iron warriors.

[@hypnofrezzefan]

@@troublewakingup i think it os what He means. The Original members are Long dead.

[@supersaiyandiclonius3056]

Personally, I think they're loyalists from the Death Guard myself.

[@hypnofrezzefan]

@@supersaiyandiclonius3056 possible. They were a proud a bunch.

[@dekaw9138]

They haven’t fallen to Chaos because even Chaos doesn’t want them

[@memesterjohnson1402]

This is in fact true.

[@danielm.595]

@@memesterjohnson1402 serious?

[@MachineMan-mj4gj]

"Gods dammit guys, we were trying to convert those Corpse Worshipers!"

[@Become-Eggplant]

Chaos maybe assholes, but atleast they got standards. Marine Malevolent are just straight up assholes.

[@Southern_Crusader]

I think the Emperor would get along great with them. He too is a massive asshole.

[@youdontneedtoseehisidentif4939]

" _The xeno and the traitor are innovative and resourceful -- and so are we..! They never stop thinking about ways to harm humanity and the Imperium -- and neither do we..!_ " ~ Chaplain Dub'ya of the Marines Malevolent, probably

[@richtheunstable3359]

Hahaha I remember that speech.

[@unintentionallydramatic]

Ah yes. The classic "with friends like that who needs enemies" types of Astartes.

[@blacktemplar1139]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend, until my enemy is dead

[@georgevanderslice9720]

You forgot to mention that the Marines Malevolent emblem is the 4th legions first emblem, used before rediscovering Perturabo: a winged lightning bolt. A similar emblem continued to be used by the Iron Warriors as their fast attack emblem.

[@Deridus]

The fact that Salamanders don't like them pleases me. That Dorn wants to punch them pleases me even more.

[@robertnelson9599]

To be fair, the Salamanders hate the Black Dragons as well.

[@dekaw9138]

Robert Nelson they don’t hate them per se, they’re just embarrassed of them.

[@benjaminargus9563]

@@robertnelson9599 well they inducted a black dragon into their ranks, they don't hate them id say they just tolerate them, marines malevolent is a different story after tushans smack down of their captain and the enshewing battles they have had

[@fluffywolfo3663]

"It will be wholesome family fun." --Dorn

[@eversobritish1335]

@@benjaminargus9563 and that members of the Marines Malevolent allied themselves with both the Drukhari and a Chaos Space Marine war band called The Dragon Warriors and assaulted Nocturne because they felt slighted by Tu’Shan

[@robopope7584]

You see yellow marines in the distance, you think “Yay, the imperial fists or maybe the lamenters!” No, it’s the marines malevolent

[@Ajehy]

When you would prefer the Lamenters come to rescue you... that’s just a bad sign. Don’t get me wrong, the sad banana bois are literally my favorite chapter, but they don’t exactly have the best track record.

[@RocketHarry865]

@@Ajehy At least the Lamenters will die to a man trying to protect you

[@doomyboi]

@@Ajehy tbh the Lamenters have a better track record of keeping **other** people safe than most marine chapters, its themselves they need to worry about

[@henrypaleveda7760]

lamenters, marines malevolent, and flesh tearers all are sent to help a world. planetary govener: "I resign"

[@trolldrool]

I kind of like the Marines Malevolent. Their entire theme is basically that the galaxy is such an unforgiving place that doing what is morally right will more often than not have worse consequences in the long run, so it is better to just set aside notions of morality and do what works. Doing what is morally right is a luxury that can seldom be afforded and those who choose to indulge in that luxury do so at the expense of opportunities for victory due to misplaced sentimentality. Or in other words, the Marines Malevolent embody the grim darkness of the dark future. Where other chapters like the Ultramarines or the Salamanders represent hope that there is a better way, the Marines Malevolent represent the cynical nihilism that there is no better way. Humanity must survive and thinking that you've failed in that mission for not having done it the "right way" is a weakness that will only hasten mankind's extinction.

[@ProjeKtWEREWOLF]

This is one of the reasons that the Marines Malevolent are my favourite chapter.

[@Southern_Crusader]

@@ProjeKtWEREWOLF I’m just reminded of my brother. So that why I like them, the familiar resemblance.

[@vortex_1336]

A lot of the chapters with unknown primarchs seem to pop up in M32. Maybe some imperial organization decided to do a test run in reintroducing traitor geneseed?

[@sonofjack6286]

Or the amount of surviving Loyalists from the traitor legions was way higher than we were informed of.

[@Aceshot-uu7yx]

Or maybe they used primarch DNA to make new strands by combining traits from diffrent primarxhs. Blood ravens, scorpions, and malevolent could all be left overs from this mixing and could explain why they seem so familiar to 2 or more founding legions from both loyalist and chaos.

[@PelinalDidNothingWrong]

The Marines Malevolent being a Salamander's successor (Yes,they exist in canon) would be so ironic. I'd especially like to see how the Salamander's would react to the Marines Malevolent sharing genetic primogenetor with them but them having Traitor liniage would make more sense canonically.

[@henrypaleveda7760]

Them being made from iron warriors is my bet. practicality, spite, and not really getting along with others. They are only missing the mechanical talent.

[@willrogers3793]

Ah yes, the AnCap marines. I nurture the fond belief that, on some Salamanders battle barge or other, there is an exquisitely crafted, larger-than-life bronze statue depicting Tu’Shan knocking that one Marine Malevolent the f*** out.

[@VallornDeathblade]

Knowing the Salamanders, the statue also contains several hidden artificer meltaguns and flamers.

[@yulverick]

Will Rogers if you’ve ever played Rainbow Six they are clearly pulled from Fuze’s character “no hostage no crisis”

[@GeneralBradley101VA]

TTS please.

[@jirojhasuo2ndgrandcompany745]

The Cringe Marines

[@jirojhasuo2ndgrandcompany745]

@@thypeasantslayer3621 its always the fascist adjacent refards lol

[@solvdrage1456]

No one wants to claim them

[@krashface4870]

Immagine if they were Ultramarines descendants. That would be hilarious

[@wolf2965]

@@krashface4870 The hilarity would only be better if they were Salamander descendants who somehow lost the melanchromic organ and are pissy about it.

[@skulltakertheflamingswordo5792]

I was always under the impression that they were just where the misfits from other chapters were dumped, so that the Imperium could cram them into one spot in order to watch them instead of having their tendencies influence other chapter. I do really like the Iron Warriors idea, as they are very similar in many ways.

[@macamud6043]

Random guardsman: “Sir we have just received information that the marine malevolent chapter just successfully killed the orc war boss.” Commissar: “What else did they do?” Random guardsman slightly shaking: “S-sir what do you mean?” Commissar: “Let say this in a different way guardsman, how many men died by the asshole’s malevolent hands.” Guardsman fearing that he won’t die fighting for the emperor: “200 leman Russ tanks, 300 bane blade tanks, 2 warlord class titans,(because 1 wasn’t enough) and 20,000 Guardsman deaths (may the emperor have mercy on there souls)” Commissar clearly pissed : “Make a tactical withdraw from the area and make no contact with the “LOYALIST” chapter. We are leaving this planet.”( let’s see those assholes fight the orc remnants WITHOUT support)

[@thatoneguyii5458]

@@macamud6043 just the thought of loosing 300 baneblade tanks hurts me physically

[@averybishopmartin6964]

@@macamud6043 Tech Priest: I see.....Hello? Yes I want you to cancel the Marines Malevolents order for additional vehicles, weapons, and other tech.....Why? Because they caused the loss of 2 warlord titans, 200 Leman Russes, and 300 Baneblades....Yeah. I know......Where should we send them instead? Hmmmm why don't we give them to the Lamenters?....Great then it's settled. Oh! While you're at it remove their privilege's for Tech Marines....K. Bye.

[@emilianocaprili4160]

I think it is absolutely plausible that after the Horus Heresy, the survivor loyalist marines of the traitor legions were organized in new chapters, chapters with unknown origins to hide the shame of the betrayal of their former Primarch, so I totally support the idea that the Marines Malevolent are actually the successor chapter of the Iron Warriors; maybe the only successor chapter, due to the casualties occurred during the Heresy.

[@razorbackstudiosartchannel2941]

Reminds me of the crusade against the cathars. Aide de camp "there are innocent people down there" Inquisitor "don't worry, God will separate them out" Biggest massacre of a city to that date.

[@calebhounsell8362]

I'm going with loyalist Iron warriors on this one. Think about it. You've lost the greater part of your chapter to chaos corruption. Your association with the past becomes at best shameful. At worst a death sentence. Im betting you, they disowned the iron warrior name and reorganized after the end of the Horus Heresy.

[@lohfert86]

Although the Iron Warriors seem like the most likely parent legion. The sheer irony of the Marines Malevolent being successors of the Salamanders, is just to good too rule out.

[@majorej4360]

That sounds like some Lamenters level luck which I’m 100% here for

[@thememester1190]

The Marines Malevolent are the kind of people who would blind their own teammates with flashbangs so they can steal the kill.

[@robertmuggeridge4736]

I like the idea of them being iron warrior loyalists, it explains the massive chip on their shoulder and why so many of them have a disposition for going renegade now and then.

[@rayruiz5871]

You said they're highly logical and didn't care for others pretty much. I assume they use them as cannon fodder. These are actions of the iron Warriors, who used any troops as cannon fodder and really didn't care for humans much unless they displayed immense combat skills. That's my understanding

[@donaldadcock148]

I love p

[@Le-cp9tr]

I say Curze because he’s the only one to hate Vulkan that much and even Peturabo isn’t that petty.

[@bloodraven7237]

Peturabo is totally that petty

[@ZeroNumerous]

Perturabo is 1000% that petty. Don't forget he wiped out his homeworld because his loving adopted father wanted Perturabo to kill his enemies.

[@outis7080]

@@ZeroNumerous Loving? Dammekos used Perty like a weapon when all he wanted was to be an architect. He also drowned one of his adoptive sons in wine. And he wiped his home world after they rebelled against him after Damnekos died.

[@enocescalona]

but the MM are not pale and black eyed, like the Ravens

[@enocescalona]

@Covah Redro i read a lot of NL material and the ravens and night lords look barely distinguishable. maybe the ravens are paler, but i think a night lord "successor" chapter would look like the Raven Guard...maybe wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Night_Lords#Geneseed the source here is unclear, but i feel the geneseed would indeed have those quirks because if the primarch was "changed" like that, so would his children

[@iansaviet600]

the real 40k theory i need is how the black dragons get their helmets on and off

[@roguepsykerhaaker4813]

They cut them in half and glue them back together when they put them on. Obviously

[@redsalamander9999]

I'll tell you their genetic heritage: Wasps and hornets. Seriously, it's in their colour scheme, and they are, shall we say, somewhat venomous? Also, from the things I've read about the Marines Malevolent, I'd say they go one further than 'just' being callous and ruthless. They're straight up cruel, and they almost seem to RELISH the fact that their actions are causing mass death and destruction on BOTH sides. This whole 'they're too weak to fight back, therefore they deserve to die' mindset is something right out of the mindset of a World Eater, Night Lord, or Iron Warrior.

[@yulverick]

Zach Wait says someone with a salamander looking profile; spreading hateful rumors of good loyal marines. (Just kidding love the wasp and hornets joke)

[@fukkitful]

Sounds like they'd fit right in to the SS.

[@richtheunstable3359]

You've just described the iron hands

[@DefiantSpurr]

Marines malevolent - open fire on enemies holding civilians. The Imperium of man- destroys planets and entire civilisations because someone once saw a demon.. I know which one I fancy my odds with. 😄

[@Ajehy]

But the MM WORK for the Imperium...

[@DefiantSpurr]

@@Ajehy yeah, I'm just pointing out that you can't really call the mm out on their brutality, when it's part and parcel of Imperium life.

[@venom0825]

Honestly i dont really care for there disregard for civilian life. Its the fact that they act like such massive coward is what gets me. If your going to be an ass hole atleast be a badass one.

[@shadowlord1418]

Exterminatus is only used on worlds that are impossible to retake so demon worlds or ones in front of hive fleets. The marines malevolent are just assholes because thay dispise humans

[@Aceshot-uu7yx]

@@DefiantSpurr the thing is space marines are supposed to be better than that.

[@dwreanchinotan]

you know, the malevolent DO have a cool emblem design. not only does it have a lightning bolt and wing design, but i can't help but see the top feather as a elongated thumb and the other feathers as a closed fist. it would be funny if SOMEHOW they were salamander successor chapter.

[@Zakiriel]

I want to say Iron Warriors but you may be more correct with Iron Hands.

[@dire_apophis3037]

I always thought either Iron Hands or Word Bearers.

[@georgevanderslice9720]

I still find them more like Iron Warriors. Especially their tendency to dick each other over

[@juangrande5036]

I thought about Night Lords

[@hypnofrezzefan]

If they were Iron Hands. Then we would see a obsessive relation to bionics and Technology.

[@junainoakuma]

If they are from Iron hands they would just not participate in such degenerate act because they calculate and weigh the most plausible outcome.

[@capsizemoonz2251]

I feel like the Marines malevolent are the type of chapter to make other chapters go "chaos ain't that bad"

[@user-cr2yz7sl5b]

Great video! For me the nail in the coffin of the 4th Legion answer is that the 4th Legion used the "winged-bolt" iconography of the 8th crusade fleet before Perturabo was found. I think this lore came after this video.

[@SawyerKnight]

I was thinking Iron warriors before it was mentioned, that also explains why its "Unknown"

[@WolfingtonStanley]

It would make sense, I mean they had to do something with the loyalists traitors and you don't throw away a perfectly good weapon

[@MercurialSpider]

Either Iron Warriors or Iron Hands imo

[@warsmithalaric]

Their callousness is admirable. Maybe they are fellow (but misguided) Iron Warriors. Just come to Chaos brothers. The corpse emperor deserves all the disdain he gets.

[@christophersmith8848]

No I'm not joining your pyramid scheme

[@Southern_Crusader]

The Emperor too is a massive callous ass. So they get along great with him.

[@bgcvetan]

The Genetic Heritage Of The Marines Malevolent: Cronyism.

[@darthkai3621]

I thought the Marines Malevolent was the Black Templar equivalent to the Ultramarines

[@Snakedude4life]

Yeah, I thought it would be funny if the Ultramarines And the Marines malevolent were the best and the worst of the potential for the space Marines.

[@ricardodemarco3486]

Black templars are hyperactives and angry to the enemies of Man, but they at least behave within what is expected from a zealous and religious chapter. The Marines Malevolent are just jerks and cunts.

[@DaimoHope]

@@ricardodemarco3486 if i wanted to hurt the Imperium i would send in the Malevolent. Wanted to help? Templars

[@ghazghkullthraka6306]

black templars are the black templars equivalent of the ultramarines

[@roguepsykerhaaker4813]

I'd say that's the mortifactors, if indeed they are ultramarines descendants

[@gingergrant1057]

Iron Warrior Loyalists, acting just how their father wanted.

[@cliffnpaige2009]

That specifically makes a LOT of sense.

[@professorsponge1554]

If that's the case: The Silver skulls are Pertarabo's sons who cleaned themselves up, moved out, changed their names and pretend they don't know their awful dad. The Marines Malevolent are the delinquent sons who are never going to go anywhere.

[@SpaceMarshalPhobos]

@@professorsponge1554 i think it has been confirmed the silver skulls are ultramarines.

[@professorsponge1554]

@@SpaceMarshalPhobos ​ @Space Marshal Phobos That's a cover story. Too many loyalist iron warriors survived, and Ultramar was indebted to Dantioch. Considering they're a second founding chapter, have dantioch's mask as a chapter badge, similar color schemes, specialize in siege tactics, are superstitious and stubborn, and had the personal attention of Rowboat Girlyman and the Tetrarch who could have created a fake backstory for them during Imperium Secundus, its easy to say the Silver Skulls are Iron wariors. we can't even say the Primaris are Ultramarine stock thanks to Cawl being a sneaky bastard.

[@darwistresno6653]

@@professorsponge1554 and Minotaurs are deliquent sons who got sugar daddies

[@jackdaalfbrainork6392]

Honestly the marine malevolent should have “loyalist” in the description

[@LAV-III]

Did the imperial fists get there 2 missing glands back after getting primaris?

[@roboticfish317]

If they can make the wolves stop being furrys then pretty sure they can give them back their glands

[@Deridus]

@@roboticfish317 Don't tell Magnus...

[@robertnelson9599]

It is implied the Raven Guard and Imperial Fists regained their malfunctioning organs.

[@hypnofrezzefan]

They have. Seth of the Flesh Tearers, state that the new Breed are Ultramarines in different colours. Before the Primaris Blood Angles, show there bad habbit. Cawl didnt fix all failures, He belive that there are some who were intentionely from the Emp

[@meatybtz]

@@hypnofrezzefan Sort of. Marines are made from their Primarchs very genetic code. The Primarchs are literally humans instilled with WARP Aspects. So perhaps not intentional but "part of the bargan". Before the Emperor made the Primarchs he first completed all the tasks and trials as assigned by Chaos. In return he got their power and instilled features into the Primarchs to make them. So each Primarch is "owned" by Chaos in some way, shape, or form. There are also "positive" warp traits and so that is why you have the loyalists, but Sanguinius has the misfortune of being Khornate (the black rage, the blood lust), so do his sons. You just can't edit that out or they would cease to be "superhuman" and that goes for their "sons". Essentially the Primarch project was a bunch of warp fuckery coupled with genetic engineering. But the Primarchs and the marines were meant to be temporary, so yes, they DO wear out, degrade. The various transhuman projects were designed to get mankind through to the psychic awakening when humanity would transition to being something else, likely something not unlike the C'tan, some kind of transcendent warp beings. But, no, Horus had to fuck it all up because he was a crybaby daddy doesn't love me boy.

[@lscf]

Was waiting for this video as soon as d1sarmon1a uploaded the art featured in the thumnail!

[@raspherion]

The Marines Malevolent...The only chapter to make an Angry Marine say, "What an asshole!"

[@loltwest9423]

You know, given how the Imperium of Man operates, and that this is supposed to be a grimdark setting, I'm surprised that more Astartes don't share the Marines Malevolent's attitude. I honestly wish more of them were like that for the purposes of depicting the Imperium as the truly repressive and vile authoritarian regime it is. But on the bright side, we've got the Inquisition for that.

[@Deridus]

But, seeing as the Astartes are the Emperor's personal creation, it would not surpise me that they follow thier gene-fathers rather closely. Look at the Wolves, for instance. They genuinly care about the people of the Imperium, as do the Salamanders and Ultramarines. The rest care about thier duties or in the case or the 1st Legion Dum Bangles, hunting Cypher and the rest of the heresy marines, more than anything else. As for the grim part of grimdark? Leave that to the Gunheads or Redemption Corps.

[@loltwest9423]

@@Deridus Well I never said we're not allowed to have Astartes that care for the human population, just that I think this should be more of a trend among Marines.

[@Deridus]

@@loltwest9423 i get you. It's just, from a lore perspective, it makes sense that we don't. I mean, look at the Ultramarines and thier successors. More of them than any three other Legions combined. Sure, there may be several thousand Angry Marines, but really... without Vulkan's sons, I'd say the ratio would be far too skewed to the grim to be very... inviting? I'm nihilistic enough as is when it comes to GW, but even I have a limit.

[@loltwest9423]

@@Deridus Well ya, I understand. So let's have the original founding Chapters hold on to whatever ideals their father Primarchs held while each successor after deteriorated in their valuing of human life at a rapid pace. This way, we still have the originals as we know them now, and have likable Marines, but have the majority of them being complete assholes. I say the ideals of their Primarchs as the Emperor would be touched by this grim darkness, especially considering the Unification Wars.

[@mattkennedy9308]

There's a few situations where the Astartes aren't that benevolent. One is a Gaunt's Ghosts novel where some Death Watch get called in and tell all the Guardsmen to piss off and do their own thing.

[@MikeP5830]

Primarch: Unknown, not that any would admit it Chapter Successor: Unknown, none would claim them

[@ja-vishaara]

I really chuckled at the phrase "Alpha Legion allies". Who needs enemy spies when your allies already plant spies in your ranks?

[@ncopictures7182]

They're just disguised chaos marines playing a prank.

[@Duppyman695]

The opposite of the Alpha Legion ! Alpha Legion are loyalists disguised as Chaos Marines playing a prank !

[@hughgedney3393]

A very awesome video as always 40k Theories.

[@ryancrazyrhino8976]

I know this'll be impossible but I think it'll be funny and a little grimdank if they were Salamanders successors that would be the Ultimate irony

[@PelinalDidNothingWrong]

If only that were canon. The Salamanders and their total opposites being related would be perfect!

[@Snakedude4life]

I thought maybe they were Dorn boys, you know, because of the OTHER chapter of angry angry guys. Although them being descended from the ultra Smurfs would be incredibly hilarious. 🎩 🐍 no step on SNEK! 🇺🇸🇭🇰

[@cliffnpaige2009]

I seem to remember a hint of that nature in a book I read years ago; I THINK it was in whatever series Uriel Ventris is in, but I don’t remember. It’s been a LONG time since then.

[@ZeroNumerous]

They are definitely not sons of Dorn. They lack the necessary stoicism, and have far too much bitter pettiness. They're loyalist Iron Warriors through and through.

[@cliffnpaige2009]

To clarify, I was talking about a hint to being of Smurf stock. I agree they act more like iron warriors though.

[@gaza8018]

Marines malevolent is like the kid who bullies the nice teacher for no reason

[@krashface4870]

Then go to the principal and punch him for the reason he didn't liked his teacher

[@dcbluenose1873]

The true Angry Marines.

[@Deridus]

Not so much as angry as everyone is angry at them, though mainky for stealing war gear and killing civilians... though the latter is pretty much the Angry Marines' MO.

[@eversobritish1335]

No that’s the Flesh Tearers

[@Matt-md5yt]

Sweet glad you did a video on them. I don't like them but still wanted to know about them

[@jeremynikijuluwstanevil7551]

I just find out this chapter from TTS series about 2 days ago

[@Snakedude4life]

I found out about them because someone did a green text video where they asked who was the most libertarian Space marine chapter and these guys were Mentioned.

[@jeremynikijuluwstanevil7551]

@@Snakedude4life Interesting, can you give me the green text video link if you please

[@Snakedude4life]

jeremy nikujuluw kzbin.info/www/bejne/oYPPqIemodOCb8U At 15:16 Marines malevolent and emperors children are mentioned. Also I forgot the excellent rift on Abaddon. Still funny.

[@allaion2897]

Commenting to hopefully get a link to the video as well

[@Snakedude4life]

Dante S. Martin kzbin.info/www/bejne/oYPPqIemodOCb8U

[@emperorkane317]

Would it also be possible that the Malevolent could be the descendants of Loyalist Astartes from Traitor Legions? While not engulfed with an obvious rage, their level of brutality, cruelty, and malice give me World Eater vibes. This could also explain their fanatical weeding of even the slightest weakness, as they could view their Legion`s betrayal as being due to the very weakness they despise, and believe having such weakness can lead to Treachery. Or see it as penance for their Legion`s sins Probably not the case, but it`s an interesting possibly.

[@BlazyCrane]

I would buy into the Iron Warrior lineage. I like the grey foundings ( I call them that don’t know the official term) a lot and wish GW would come out and just say it. It would give so much character to the off hand chapters if read and seen I the various codex editions since I was a kid.

[@archeronline4133]

I'm sorry, orks INFILTRATED a camp? Sneaky gitz musta been wearing purple.

[@peterhares5312]

That was great thanks

[@Corium1]

They make the Black Templars look like a bunch of huggable fluffy kittens.

[@Brody_Austin]

The Marines Malevolent are my favorite chapter. I want to hear more stories about them

[@henrypaleveda7760]

go all the way and find the iron warriors. I do say this as an iron warriors/crimson fists fan.

[@ShaddySoldier]

I like to beleive they're an offshoot of salamanders because that's hilarious.

[@le3299ify]

So the Iron Warriors may have manged to spawn both the Minators and Marines Malevolent? So the guys that go around killing other space marines and a chapter that kills everything else.

[@helpmereach690subscribers3]

Guardsmen: HELP US! *several space marine drop pods entering orbit* Guardsmen: hooray! It’s the space marines were saved! *marines malevolent land* Guardsmen: OH NO! ITS THE SPACE MARINES!

[@BlizzardofKnives]

"Guilliman, you are (probably) the father!"

[@HealingBlight]

Now he is off trying to make babies with an Eldar, that's how much he likes to sire things.

[@evilturnip8365]

@@HealingBlight Wait WHAT HERESY!!!!! also curious where this is from

[@Ajehy]

Guilliman: Noooooooooo! *yeets the yellow M&M’s away*

[@1izzardish]

My boys finally getting some attention

[@professorsponge1554]

I doubt they're Iron Warriors. The Silver Skulls are brutal, but hardly disdained all weakness like the Iron Hands, and are proof that they can make dutiful and honorable warriors. The Skulls also used psykers, which is more in line with the Iron Warrior's ideal of throwing everything at their disposal to level/take a structure. The Iron Hands have, to use a term from TTS, a 'brutal asscrack' idea of sticking to orders and to hell with everyone weaker than them. the MM are as bitter and cold as the old Iron Warriors, but the IR were only that way because Pertarabo was an asshole and they were given missions without glory or recognition. Far more likely the Marines are Ferrus's worst elements put in a separate chapter after that Moirae Schism which had some iron fathers exiled.

[@nantarg]

Some things to consider. The Marines malevolent were founded in M32. Which is around the war of the beast. At this time the Imp Fists probably still had both the susan membrande and the acid thingy, but had to have their entire chapter rebuilt from scratch, so probably didn't have much geneseed leftovers. On the topic of Iron hands. They are quite harsh and uncaring as well, which can be seen in the book Wrath of Iron, so could be a very good candidate for first founding chapter. Also, Ferrus Manus did not think augmentations was a good thing, that was more a cult of personality that grew in the chapter in an attempt to mimic their fathers arms.

[@AGS363]

Was the 4. Legion really for the Edict? As far as I remember, Perturabo showed dissappointment after its inception.

[@40KTheories]

The Legion representative was in favour yes (as shown in the HH black books, he was "strongly in favour" as it happens)

[@edmundthespiffing2920]

He was disappointed because the place the Council took place was built by him. And since he and Magnus are best bros, Peter Turbo hates what the Emperor did with his creation.

[@Enumclaw]

Marines Malevolent: They're using human shields? Ha ha, that's cute.

[@svagglaorde4387]

These are the kind of Astartes that will do a lot of Friendly Fire to Imperial Guardsmen...and Inquisitors if they're that unlucky.

[@josephwonsetler389]

When you mix iron warrior and iron hands gene seed

[@mutehowl]

Ohh thank you. I wanted to make a loyalist ironhands army. Now i know there was 2 that stayed loyal.

[@Chaossoul87]

Having them be Salamanders descendants seems amusingly ironic to me.

[@thronezwei4412]

You know you're assholes when another Chapter can almost blow you up and the Inquisition basically shrugs and goes "Eh, whatever."

[@Leptospirosi]

The Idea of chapters founded by traitor legion's contingents should not sound so strange for second founding products: the shear scale of the Horus Heresy and the uncontrolled Legion size could have created many situation where large pockets of these legion could have chosen to betray (including members of the loyalists) or to stay loyal, depending on the tactical situation, like when intermixed group of marines from different legion's were fighting side by side in the same sector. While the wide spread of the Butcher nail for Angron's sons or the deeply catechization among the World Bearers would have made the call of Horus stronger, not all the "not traitors" would have been able to reach the Istvan sector, or Horous would have been still waiting to start his Heresy, due to the galactic distances, and completely withdraw from some local conflict could have drawn too much attention from the loyalists. The seed of betrayal was rather new by the times of Istvan and I doubt it had time enough to reach those contingent too far away from their Primarchs and probably operating with a relative autonomy in the sectors where they were assigned. At the end of the Heresy the victorious Empire was drawn on its knee and whatever resource available was precious. Contingents who had proven to have fought valiantly, despite being eyed closely by the rising inquisition could not be just erased without further bloodshed and resentment, but just to disperse foreigners with different traditions in large quantities among the loyal legions and then split them in chapters would create a lot of rough ground for both parts. It was done before with the two lost legions but it took the mind power of Malcador and the Emperor himself to allow them to melt seamlessly, something not available at the end of the Hersy. The new Codex Space Marines by Guilliman offered a way out: by founding chapters with names unrelated to the original legions allowed loyalist contingents of the traitor legions to keep existing as a cohesive kinship inside those new chapters and get rid of an heritage the most probably wanted to distance the self from, melting into the thousands of freshly formed chapters without the taint of a name that would draw on them hate and mistrust from the rest if the Empire. No surprise that any of these chapter did whatever possible to erase all traces of their heritage, to the point that after 10k year they could completely have forgot. It is also notable that Belisarius Cawl tried asking Guilliman to be allowed to use the genetic pool of some of the traitor legions to create new primaries marines, and this because most of the current loyalist legion geneseeds have degraded to the point of being useless. We know for a fact that some of the traitor legions have extremely pure geneseeds, like the Emperor Children's, the Death Guards, the Alpha Legion, the Iron Warriors and the Luna Wolves, while some, like the World Eaters and the World Bearer were not different from an Ultramarine before having the butcher nail installed or being subjected to an intense brain washing by the chaplains. Furthermore, a Pre-Heresy World Bearer chapter would be the Dream-Marine for any current eclesiarchy member, given the core of the 40K church belief is actually based on the Philosophical teaching of the Aurelian himself. Sucks to be Guilliman!

[@joseantoniosantiago1258]

What if Vulkan led the Imperium after the War of the Beast?

[@edmundthespiffing2920]

Happy times

[@cliffnpaige2009]

Too many snoots booped.

[@hisnotsolonely2961]

Broken backs everywhere

[@molliethomas2585]

When Tu'Shan, one of the nicest guys in 40k, calls you an asshole and knocks you into next week, you know you done f🤬d up.

[@MiniFuxy11]

I think they are descend of the Night Lords. But remove her terror tactics with extra jerkassery, multiply her cowardice several times.

[@spartanalex9006]

I had an idea. Maybe they're loyalist Fallen that are hiding in plain sight. I'm going to go tell Asmodai.

[@Duppyman695]

Make them.......... REPENT!!!!!!!

[@jtfbreedlove]

If they are descended from loyalist iron warriors you'd think they'd try to distance themselves in behaviour, not exaggerate one trait to an extreme.

[@TheTb2364]

Chapter: unknown primarch 40k fans: ITISTRAITORGENESEED!!!1!!

[@petersaunders5808]

I think another possibility is World Eaters. They did have the largest number of loyalists during the Istvaan iii atrocity and not everyone died there.

[@alphonsecoco3]

I had always heard that the Dark Angels had the most chapters and most stable gene seed

[@40KTheories]

Nope. 75% of all chapters are Ultramarine successors.

[@davebowman9000]

Thanks to 1d4chan I kept hearing the Denis Leary song in my head through out this video

[@013wolfwarrior]

Thank the emperor, reinforcements! *Marines malevolent arrive* Dammit, reinfrocements have arrived

[@nightlock826]

I honestly thought they were just Iron hands without the cybernetic obsession

[@jsauer30]

Interesting, I always thought it was explicitly stated that they were IF successors but apparently not.

[@TheSmalltownhick]

I wonder how many of the Chapters with no known progenetor chapter could be descended from one of the two Lost Chapters?

[@NetMoverSitan]

It's because of their attitude to collateral damage that would make a Black Templar think is excessive that they're hated, with "friends" like them, who needs enemies? | 2:16 - The Salamanders, everything that the Marines Malevolent aren't. | 8:17 - (monotone) All hail the Ultrasmurfs (normal) It depends on whether or not the Codex Astartes supports large amounts of collateral damage. | 12:50 - Yeah, that would make sense, considering how messed up they were to each other.

[@christianjensen1100]

Did the marines from the two unknown chapters not become incorporated in the Ultramarines? I believe it was hinted to in a HH book. If so then maybe the Marines Malevolent and other chapters could be from these if the marines chosen were predominately from them, when new chapters were formed?

[@squirrel_killer-]

World Eater stock. The War Hounds were pretty brutal. Also, no psychers through that's due to Butcher's Nails and later Khorne.