The BEST Primaris Marine | Warhammer 40k Lore

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[@BarelyDecentProduction]

Obviously the best primaris marine would be *insert homebrew marine here*

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

The best primaris is chapter master Hogus Blogus who single-handedly beat a hive fleet to death

[@AngryHomunculus]

Sorry your comment reminded me of my want to create a Blood Angels successor with the word "haemoglobin" in it

[@jonwest3136]

@@AngryHomunculus ”The dim kin of hemoglobin”

[@Prophetofthe8thLegion]

Kitten of the Kitten Warriors, Primarch: Emperor

[@alpha-1redrighthand829]

@@livefromtheblacklibraryit would be Titus.

[@benjamintrejo9307]

A moral renegade space marine would be a sick ass book series. One can dream…

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

GIVE ME THE RONIN PRIMARIS

[@g.sergiusfidenas6650]

Even just a true indepent Renegade would be cool, pretty much all of them go "Damn, we f*ck up, well guys let's go straight to the Eye". I know technically some Alpha Legion are in this category and then we have the Ashen Claws and that's kinda it the rest are all Chaos' pawns to some degree. I would like to see more stuff like non-Chaos non-Loyalist empire one of the founders of the Grey Knights had for a while during the Heresy before becoming an agent of Malcador; pirates, renegades, freedom fighters, a lot of roles to be played for an independent group of Astartes that are no longer Imperium-affiliated but don't sell their souls to the 4 satans of Chaos either.

[@marcialhd]

@@g.sergiusfidenas6650 yeah, frankly i feel that is an avenue that GW should explore more, a renegade faction of humans (likely with some Astartes members) that realize "hey the imperium and all of its organizations are shit, lets get the fuck out while we still can!" and simply go their own way without falling to Chaos (and that's another thing i'm freaking tired of the "everyone who leaves the imperium either dies or goes to chaos" attitude that GW FORCES upon the story, if the freaking Ashen Claws could still be piratical assholes for over 10k years then it is more than possible to survive uncorrupted without the impeirum).

[@travelingspartan2035]

RIP Soul Drinkers

[@phantomwraith1984]

He feels like a Salamandwr who got attached to a bunch of Marine Malevolent. The Nova Marines are absolute assholes with stupid tradiations, whereas Paris is a genuine nice guy who just wants to do good and is getting frustrated with getting shafted all the time

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

YEAH! I wanna see where is leads

[@Nyghtking]

I think it's a bit different then that, because the marines malevolent actively dispise regular humans, the nova marines feel like they just don't care.

[@travelingspartan2035]

That's an oversimplification. The Novamarines are pragmatic enough to be willing to allow (or commit) civilian casualties when they think it's really necessary, but at a baseline level that's normal for Astartes chapters. And they don't do it without remorse, as shown in Godblight. They're nowhere near as heartless as Marines Malevolent, or Iron Hands, or Minotaurs, or any others that are reputed for it. Nor does not wanting to commit war-crimes make you a Salamander; there are levels of compassion and morality, and few chapters can be sorted into a binary where they are equal to those two extremes.

[@RedHornSSS]

I'm just dying at the picture of a Space marine doing air quotes while saying "brother"

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

THATS HOW IT FELT IN THE AUDIOBOOK

[@brotherhoodofsteel4751]

​@@livefromtheblacklibraryin that case you should check out the Flesh Tearers novels plenty of sass

[@Vincent_A.]

A memorable quote from Brother Dramaticus

[@ottovonbismarck7094]

To be fair if the first thing trapped civilans think to do when help comes is to blow their cover and make a shitload of noise I wouldnt want anything to do with them

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Ok that’s fair

[@ERAA-on-YT]

Like "GOD-EMPEROR-DAMMIT! We are NOT CUSTODES to resolve this instantly!".

[@Prophetofthe8thLegion]

But at that point if the enemy isn’t immediately aware of your position, the loud sound of bolter fire is going to alert him so not only did the Nova Marines waste ammunition they probably screwed themselves over in the process.

[@unnamedenemy9]

fair, but murdering them all as your first response is pretty psychotic and callous.

[@ottovonbismarck7094]

@@unnamedenemy9 their first response was repeatedly telling them to be quiet and not to do that

[@CrayonosaurusRex]

I always kinda liked the idea of the Deathwatch being this honored and experienced brotherhood of veterans, but also as a "this astartes failed to adapt and may cause issues in the chapter...send him to the Watch, at least they can use the meat" type unit

[@robertnelson9599]

It’s implied that some chapters do that. For Example, Watch Captain Artemis was a Raven Guard who was sent to the Deathwatch for some failure that occurred in battle.

[@stingblademaster]

Dante was this kind of character for me. His personal struggle on the thirst. Opposing views with Seth another great character and the sense of loss and abject failure after the DoB despite having won

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Yeah he's one of the standout characters imo

[@Lord_Inquisitor_Ignis]

Damn beat me there but I completely agree

[@wailmerpail]

blood angels in general having to juggle both the thirst and the black rage makes them feel more humble and compelling to me

[@thisgoddamusernamestoodamnlong]

Same with Lamenters for me.

[@cntipede1000]

Dante's story made me a 40k fan and was the deciding factor for what army I was going to build and play.

[@MrPedroleiria]

That Black Templar dude and his historitor friend are also an interesting duo.

[@Taydutt13]

Fabian?

[@Taydutt13]

And lucinious or something like that. Yeah they left off with him reading a book about how sanguinius is the Emperor

[@RecoilGunnerStudios]

Justinian maxantius and felix are really great examples of primaris marines Yes felix feels like a privillaged kid at times but he isnt arrogant Being that privilaged and being so humble is great! And theres a chance Guilliman will never see him again due to his lifespan.

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

I'm almost done Cawl: The Great Work and while it's not an AMAZING book I do think it fleshes out Felix a lot

[@RecoilGunnerStudios]

@@livefromtheblacklibrary now i need to read it too. Such a heavy burden on a single "young" Astardes

[@blackhelmetnova7753]

Personally I’m a huge fan of Decimus Felix. He’s a child who was chosen for his potential and had to deal with Cawl being his nightmare even into his Astartes life. Felix also has this immense weight of being a Tetrarch despite being so ‘relatively’ young as a marine. Given so much responsibility by your demigod father and asked to help fix a galaxy that’s on fire. All Decimus can do is put on a strong face and order others around who have either been around the setting far longer or are just straight up 10x older than him. He has a different kind of melancholy that I enjoy from the Ultramarine characters in recent years. Almost like a mini version of his father, Decimus remembers a better time and is now in hell struggling to impose some sort of order in a galaxy that is in chaos. Maybe that’s the reason he was chosen by Guilliman himself to be a Tetrarch. And just like Justinian, Decimus was taken by Cawl and his family who he loved is ripped away and essentially tortured by Belisarius who then goes on to affectionately call Decimus his “son”.

[@TKUltra971]

Yeah, I can totally relate with him as a reader. He's the perfect P-SM because he puts the reader directly in the seat to what exactly it is to be one and become one with the struggle of fitting into M42. I really think they don't deserve all the hate that they get but its still incredibly grim dark and its actually supported by old canon as to why they exist in the first place.

[@arstotzka9088]

Cato Sicarius is another character thats getting a positive revamp. His more recent novels like knights of Macragge have actually started to make me like the arrogant bastard. The rivalry between Cato and Agianman over who succeeds Calgar js not talked about enough. Cato, the areogant yet strategic mastermind who understands the Codex is a foundation, like Titus, not something to be adhered to religiously while Againman is the opposite and has a very Ultramarine view of the codex.

[@jeffboberson8588]

I still can’t get over how the marines in dark imperium were called Justin and felix the most normal un war hammer names ever

[@nicolashelbig2142]

Hes called justinian and These are latin names which have many Marines throughout other Legions

[@andresperedo1275]

Felix is one of the most warhammer names, as it is the name of one of the most iconic characters in warhammer history (which I do not care for, but that is not relevant). And if you just care about 40k (or 30k), there was a Imperial fist called Felix Cassander (poor guy btw)

[@jeffboberson8588]

Ye but it sound like Justin tho

[@Pokepokeboom]

@@nicolashelbig2142 fun fact, there were no j’s in ancient Latin. Any place that you would’ve had a J they pretty much used a Y instead. It was much later with “church Latin” that the letter J was added in.

[@HeilSol]

@@Pokepokeboom you mean "I", not "Y" as that didn't exist in "ancient" Latin either, technically called "archaic Latin".

[@hendrik1769]

I could see Justinian joining the Death Watch if he does not manage to find a place in the nova marines.

[@amw5288]

Oh. A deathwatch book with Justinian and Maxentius running as a part of a kill team? Sign me up!

[@crashinallguard]

I'm so glad someone's talking about Justinian!!

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

YEAH HES GREAT!

[@vontheunknown7982]

I wish we saw this more with Primaris Marines, and to see that there changing with their chapters as well.

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

I feel like this is why a lot of people don't care for the A Dawn of Fire series of Space Marine Conquests. While I haven't read them myself, I've heard that that's where a lot of negative p[erceptions of Primaris come from

[@caseymay5449]

The space marine that took command of the Emperor's Scythe had a good story. I can't remember his name but he had a lot of emotion. He hated Call and he felt bad for the shame his family felt because he disappeared for the Primaris project.

[@SoftyDR]

​@@caseymay5449 You are referring to Decimus Felix in 'Belisarius Cawl: The Great Work'. He wasn't commanding the Scythes per se, but checking his quadrant of Ultramar as he is the Tetrarch (Space Marine ruler) of that area. I love the fact that he is called Decimus (10) & his brother Nonas (9) because their parents wanted 10 kids and they were counting down from the first.

[@caseymay5449]

@SoftyDR thanks it has been awhile since I read it and I even forgot that part.

[@onairwithjarvis]

Dude definitely needs a model. Both because it would be a Primaris model character that wasn't originally a first born, and because we can see more of the Nova Marines. Their colour scheme slaps.

[@akumaking1]

Who thinks GW has already forgotten about this guy?

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

He was last mentioned in Godblight which came out on May 29, 2021, so it's been less than 3 years. Let's not count him out yet

[@BearCavalryWasTaken]

I feel like they’d fit in with the Redacted, loyalist but also traitor at the same time comprised of different legions like the unumbered sons

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

THATS SO TRUE! Though I can't see him wanting to filter out loyal assets to strengthen the imperium. He wouldn't have the stomach for that

[@sonicwingnut]

Just to be that guy.. Zephon survived the Heresy. He was the first chapter master of the Charnel Guard.

[@parkermaisterra8532]

Another Primaris Marine who is pretty cool is Decimus Felix who is not only in the Dark Imperium trilogy but is one of the main characters of *Cawl: The Great Work* where we see his relationship and thoughts when it comes to Cawl We also meet Alpha Primus and hoh boy that’s an interesting character

[@Book_worm.75]

The thing that's boring about some loyalist space marines is that they are mostly one note and especially ultramarines and their successors. Always sticking to the codex astartes and such. However we do have a lot of great loyalist space marines who I would argue rival the traitors when it comes to writing.....in the era indomitus that is, we have Uriel Ventris, Dante of the blood angels, Gabriel Seth, Titus, Ragnar Blackmane. Who all have their personal struggles and stand out when it comes to writing.

[@XAssassinTotX96]

Yeah, honestly I would just be like “Piece out, I’m joining the Deathwatch. At least that’s a somewhat familiar environment.”

[@andresperedo1275]

The thing of the Wolfspear is that ALL OF THEM are primaris, as the SW could not have second foundation chapters (BTW, incredible mistake of GW introducing succesors to the SW. I think that is part of the reason we are not getting absolutely no relevant news from their side... GW fucked it up and they do not know how to fix it)

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

YEAH PROBABLY XD

[@lachlanevans5013]

Well one thing I figured might help is have those successor chapters be organised to fulfill the role equivalent to the great companies. Giving them less independence but ultimately more unity and a longer reach amongst the whole line of Russ, with each chapter master taking orders from Logan Grimnar. I imaging it sort of like the dark angels various wings but with some more independence but ultimately they are just a bigger version of a great company.

[@NP3GA]

Didn't they get a short story?

[@andresperedo1275]

@@lachlanevans5013 the issue is that SW gen seed causes problems when used on non-fenrisian people and without canis helix. That is why the chapter cannot really grow (neither the legion) and why it makes sense they do not care about the codex. And also why they keep Fenris as it is

[@DarkApostleNoek]

Latest thing we got from them is the short story in Successors anthology, though it feels like that it took place before the last bit of story of them going to the Nachmund Gauntlet to cross it.

[@o.w.n.1327]

GIVE THAT MARINE A MODEL!

[@masonevanson2995]

To see justinian be a black shield would be super interesting because I doubt he would be the only primaris Blackshield, so you'd get this perspective of other primaris marines from other chapters clearly not fitting in and learn their struggles as well, which would provide both new characters but also major new interactions because, even though they're primaris and now all blackshields, they're still all probably majorly different.

[@finnphillosa1431]

Bjarni’s tale continues in a short story called Wolfspear in The Successors anthology. It’s basically a tale about the Space Wolves coming to check on the puppies, test their mettle, and show them how things are done in the Aett. The fact that their emissaries’ thunderhawk is mostly filled with hundreds of barrels of Fenrisian Ale should tell you what they had in mind for cultural enrichment.

[@anzaca1]

The issue is that the Primaris don't have many characters with decent screentime yet.

[@captainteutonica5474]

I despise the Traitors, because I abhor disloyalty and treachery. So I never could get myself to like any of the Traitors, but I do agree with you that most Loyalists are generic at best.

[@caseymay5449]

Stoic

[@everythingsalright1121]

Im more interested in normal humans in most cases with regards to 40k, with a few space marine exceptions. However me like demons and slaanesh so im biased

[@Hugme778]

Tthen you would love the night lords

[@billybob-zk9nm]

Alpha legion too 👉👈?

[@captainteutonica5474]

@@billybob-zk9nm especially the Alpha Legion Alpharius, Hydra Dominatus.

[@jadebullet3884]

I agree. He seems like the embodiment of what I wanted GW to do with the lore. I want a divide between Primaris and their assigned chapters. I want more exploration of the Imperium Nigilus being cut off and essentially abandoned and forced to defend themselves rather than rely upon the Imperium. Instead it just seems the Imperium is fine.

[@DatsVatSheSaid]

The Video games have really solid and well known Loyalist Marines, Gabriel Angelos, Indrick Boreale, Captain Titus, the DoW2 story campaign Marines, Malum fucking Caedo.

[@yamibakura8597]

I agree with you, Chrono. Loyalist Marines tend to be rather one-note in the modern Era. I read Storm of Iron and I had to admit that the Iron Warriors were actually quite interesting. That being said, I prefer to follow characters who have at least the semblance of morality, so I was rooting for the Guard that entire time

[@inductivegrunt94]

He was a black sheep of the chapter. He is an Ultramarine in Novamarine armor. He doesn't have a home or brotherhood anymore. Justinian deserves better, I hope there's a story of him finally separating from the Novamarines, like possibly joining the Deathwatch, and finally finding what he truly wants. Maybe even take his Novamarine friend with him so they can get away from the chapter that doesn't deserve them.

[@TKUltra971]

Dude i'm not even a Space Wolf fan but I ADORE Bjarni Arvisson of the WolfSpear Primaris chapter. He's goofy, savage, serious, a man of complex thought and a loyal wolf brother. We first encountered him in the Dawn of Fire series (original before retcon) then we see him again in current canon with The Wolves* of Rakos shot story. Such a great guy! What wolves should be.

[@GenralG7]

My favorite part is at the end when he gets the tattoo of the girl they killed, and the Chaplain is like "I will not if youre doing this to remind yourself of her death" and hes like "I do it to remember my duty", which can go either way. Originally I thought that was him facing hard facts and accepting it, but now im more convinced he'll wear it as a reminder

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

YEAH I CANT BELIEVE I FORGOT THAT

[@collecter343]

I definitely appreciate how the first tattoo he got was of the girl, making sure he never forgot her or what happened.

[@DerekCFPegritz]

I absolutely love Solomon Akura. That whole book was awesome, as it showed how the Alpha Legion works after 10,000 years of being overly secretive.

[@unnamedenemy9]

I really need to read that book -- I've always had a love/hate relationship with the Alpha Legion because they're cool and interesting but also *waaaaaaay* too deep into the secrecy and the "or did they!?" shenanigans that made them into a meme, so seeing a story where they have to grapple with the problems *caused* by that obsession with secrecy sounds really cool and grounding.

[@DerekCFPegritz]

@@unnamedenemy9 There's still plenty of secrecy and deep-faking in that book as well, but the way it's handled is great.

[@gergelyosztrogonacz9464]

Guy who made me fall in love with marines and 40k in general was Pedro Kantor, he is golden.

[@fluffywolfo3663]

The space wolves are some of the most human Astartes in that way - they laugh, they drink, they shoot the shit, they brag to each other, throw feasts. So even if I don’t individually latch onto their characters all the time (Ragnar is fine I guess) it gives them a lot of depth.

[@andresperedo1275]

Give it a try to Chris Wraight old SW trilogy, you may enjoy it

[@fluffywolfo3663]

@@andresperedo1275I have read it! It's pretty great. Besides Ingvar (I like seeing a Wolf who decided to learn from other Astartes in the Deathwatch) my favorites would probably be Grimnar and Bjorn.

[@andresperedo1275]

@@fluffywolfo3663 I really liked Ingvar, specially in the first book. I am an immigrant, and that feeling of never fitting in, either where you live or where you were born it was perfectly captured. I hope he goes back to telling the story of that pack, although not sure how well it would fit with the current events

[@williamwiegand4340]

I'm suprised you didn't talk about the fact that Justin's first tatto was that of one of the humans his "brothers" killed. I also recomend "Succesors" its a collection of short stories of the primaris marines. One of them being of that Wolf Spear marine meeting a wolf priest from the Space Wolves. Its really good read

[@livefromtheblacklibrary]

Ohhhhh thanks for telling me! And yeah I missed that one

[@caseymay5449]

Nice

[@williamwiegand4340]

@@livefromtheblacklibrary You're welcome! Cool! First time a youtuber replied to me lol.

[@unnamedenemy9]

See, I love when loyalists get to be more complex. The first 40k book I ever read (and is still one of my favorites) was Helsreach, largely because it did such a good job with Grimaldus -- we got to see the classic stoic astartes get in touch with his humanity, which he shares with baseline humans. Hell, my favorite moments from that book aren't the last stand (which was *awesome,* don't get me wrong), but the moments he has talking to other people like the titan princeps and the guard sergeant. My favorite by far is at the end, when he repeats and improves his old mentor's motto and says to himself essentially "I am sorry it took me so long to realize that you weren't entirely right and step out from your shadow." Well, that and the very last line, "Hero of Helsreach, as if there is only one."

[@patrickdees5256]

Okay here me out: a story where a bunch of primaris marines from each chapter go on to rescue one of their own. Getting to see the different perspectives on the chapter one was placed in. If they made it to the area via backing from their chapter, went rogue, or were allowed to go, but had to do so in secret. And we could see how some primaris marines go on this rescue mission, either out of duty or a genuine sense of brotherhood. The drama and struggle that could be made with such a story. The biggest issue would be too many characters though, which would be unfortunate.

[@Raist474]

>Gathered up many yutes Yutes?

[@gideonhorwitz9434]

12:51 if only there was a mechanism for chapters to exchange brothers of similar gene lines who might not fit in

[@udp1073]

I cannot remember the name now but i will find it and edit this message: there is this primaris space wolves that we see on a couple of deployments and then left to stand guard by guilliman to a planet, then there are “traditional” space wolves viaiting them, we see the struggle to identify, we see battle, damn we see them getting drunk.. it is an amazing character

[@pedropierre9594]

They need to give ADB more leeway with new primaris he will handle it the way he has Nightlords, he already wrote Emperor’s Spears, i would be so excited to hear ADB is writing something with Messinius in it for example

[@drunknnirish]

The Spears book was so good.

[@prophet89]

The unnumbered were a great oppurtunity to make chimeric primaris chapters that blended the best of each blood line working together.

[@massiverabbit3454]

Damn, I didn’t know all those characters at the beginning of the video are primaris marines, damn

[@ТарасМакаренко-ф3ш]

This guy, Justinian, is "literally me" 😢

[@jaimesmiller414]

Look at what the fandom venerates and you can tell all men want, is to die in glorious battle with their friends for a greater purpose than themselves.

[@zfrankhauser4292]

I remember reading the Dark Imperium books and thinking "wow, a lot of these scenes seem like they were written to make the primaris seem cook and help sell. The unnumbered sons are cool though"

[@Bigboy_smooth]

I want to see more loyalist characters like him. The way loyalist are written sometimes makes you think that everything is peachy with them and it's not

[@Prophetofthe8thLegion]

I’d say in modern 40K characters like Uriel Ventriss and most of the blood angels characters have received some great character narratives. That blood angel sergeant in Angels of Death was very interesting with his conflict of resenting his brothers for in his eyes abandoning him and his need for companionship and brotherhood.

[@zeroakira584]

It would be interesting to see him meeting the Salamander who no doubt will agree with how he conducted back in the church while roasting the Nova Marine both litterally and metaphortically.

[@KronicVayne]

I think the "old and new" could be better described as "has history versus lack of history", i'm sure we'll get some stand-out primaris in time, i'm in the "let them cook" camp xD

[@notribadsvault]

Based, he was my favorite as well and the first I thought of when I saw the title. Alpha Primis was neat too

[@fightforaglobalfirstamendm5617]

Both Guilliman and the Lion should take a chapter of each bloodline not including their own, so 8 chapters. Then take 8 chapters of their own bloodline and combine them into a Division sized Corps to lead their Crusades. Used to crack any problem with the correct tool for the job.

[@Ceiling_Gato]

There's also a similar story in one of the SM Conquest books about Primaris Dark Angels not really fitting in with the chapter, and actively sabotaging their psycho-indoctrination when they find out about it

[@გიორგიმოსაშვილი-ო3დ]

Here's hoping Justin can be sent to the Deatwatch and make a nice found family there

[@chrismorel8613]

Great video! I also liked the character of Lucerne from throne of light and his issues with the black Templar's (Same author as Dark imperium so should be too surprised. Guy Haley can write a good conflicted dude 👌)

[@theangrycarcharodon8120]

Bail sharr from the carcharodons books and his interactions with Te'kahurangi the chief librarian thru out the book red tithe is excellent Edit:As far a loyalists are concerned not primaris :)

[@wikipediaintellectual7088]

"Show me one loyalist who gets that much love and appreciation." Dante...

[@im_a_simulation433]

Reclusiarch Merek Grimaldus, the Hero of Helsreach. Is great story when you see him has human where he thinks he will die in Armageddon.....

[@Dojo1234-j8k]

Istvan... The day the Space Marine became guardsman

[@RedHornSSS]

Thanks for highlighting this! Unnumbered Sons is definitely the part of Era Indomitus I hope to learn more about!

[@diobrandocinematicuniverse4450]

Dark imperium was such a good trilogy

[@MR.LMR1996]

Would be interesting to see how thing could kick off between Chapters who don't fully accept their new First Generation Primaris Brothers. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more instances like that one time with a group of Black Templars who went rouge and tried to purge their Primaris Battle Brothers because they viewed their existance and creation as Heresy. What would happen if something like this happened with Chapters like the Nova Marines except the other way around? Where the 1st Generation Primaris Marines like Justin here end-up staging a coup over the Chapter and make an attempt to overthrow and purge the First Born Marines. Not because they wanted to turn traitor, or because they fell to Chaos, but because these Primaris Marines see their First Born Brothers - the Marines who disreguard the lives of the mortals they're supposed to be protecting as Space Marines - as monsters and they can no longer justify themselves in serving alongside such callous people and want to take control of the Chapter and reforge it into something genuinly better.

[@theforgottenbard8978]

If you get a chance to read the successors novel there is actually a short story about him being a wolf's spear & being a one of the few wolfspears from fenris meeting up with the space wolves and they basically tell him that he'll never one of of them in the typical space wolve way.

[@logandelaharpe6362]

I’ve never seen someone say they prefer the traitor marines character in 40k most people say they became one note once they fell

[@rexxo4957]

That wolfs spear marine shows up in the successors anthology, its a good read too!

[@alannatherson7721]

I feel like the best option for Justinian is to go off to the Death Watch as soon as possible, it won't solve anything but would be at least a slight improvement.

[@jabadahut50]

I think you could get similar levels of clash of ideals amongst the loyalist marines in the setting of the deathwatch.

[@SillySpudyRocking]

I must respectfully disagree with the loyalists not having any truly great marines.... they just get killed off consistently! Siggy, Loken, the loyal Iron Warrior I forget the name of, Shadrach Meduson.... or they just don't get enough lore to flesh them out like Tyberos, Crimson fists CM, Seth... orrrrr they are written as Mary Sue's like EVERY ULTRASMURF! Wait... I'm actually agreeing with you and rather noting why we don't have one 😂

[@TKUltra971]

Agreed. There are plenty of great loyalists who are dynamic in their approach to the imperial dogma and ways. Not just generic marine #20394 in chapter whatever-dada. The Chaos Mcs always play off the same beat that, they are scattered in mind and have no idea what they really want or what they'd do if they achieved it. A hamsterwheel of contradiction, ego and self importance.

[@Mack-b9o]

Pedro kantor my love

[@kurtru5selcrowe607]

I am Alpharius.

[@mobiusZero2]

Damn... I feel bad for him. Black Dragons chapter knows civilians are important too

[@deusexstupit7969]

honestly i think the Primaris are a great way to ad conflickt to the Loial mareans thats more complicated then youst "those are the good guys those are the bad guys"

[@Stonechester378]

I want to see a Primaris from the time before the imperial cult was established being forced into the Black Templars and having no idea wtf is going on.

[@yopoxikeweapescai9066]

I remember a schyther i named justinian that i got in a nuzzlocke, bro died like a champe in the last elite 4

[@GlamdringandOrcrist]

Decimus Felix deserves a shoutout too. I actually prefer him to Justinian primarily thanks to his depiction in The Great Work.

[@tneal89]

Other than the Space Wolves, the only modern day loyalist Marines I can think of who get that same level of attention and quality of development that you described are probably the Blood Angels. Dante and Mephiston in particular. I'd recommend most of the novels focusing on them.

[@Knownascomic]

I forget which book it’s in but theirs a primaris captain who joins the flesh tearers , who tells Gabriel Seth to his face that he hates him and hates being there and misses the unnumbered sons as well

[@user-BadUsername]

One way they could take Paris, if he does return, that they could probably slowly make him the chapter master of the nova Marines. I just feel that his progression could be that he would slowly and begrudgingly climb the ranks of the novamarines

[@grunt1688]

It would be cool if his story becomes the live action amazon 40k show

[@benciudovchgottdank3460]

I did think that his relationship with the other Novamarines was improving during the second book though. You mentioned the scene with the Techmarine saying "You Primaris brothers are tough" for one, and I do believe that followed the battle for Galatan, where Firstborn and Primaris marines fought side by side to desperately repel the forces of the Plague God. I distinctly remember Parris feeling respect towards the Chapter Master or Chapter Champion (I don't remember which it was) when he fought Typhus, and if I'm not mistaken he was upset that the CM/CC was killed by Typhus because he would never get to meet him

[@jaschathane134]

Bardan Dovaro is the guy you’re thinking of, Novamarines Chapter Master.

[@sergentharker7182]

I could see a lot of unnumbered sons going off to become Black Shields, there's some chapters with really incongruous cultures I'm sure a lot of them are having trouble getting over. Most Unforgiven would probably assume they're spies or some such, they're not trusting, if any of them ended up in the Dark Hunters, I'm not sure how they'd feel with how not White Scars the chapter is, especially if they'd wanted to be a biker, taking heads for the Khan, or an Iron Hand who finds like The Crimson Hunters to be distasteful or some such. Idunno, i think it's an idea that could be explored

[@morshuthemerchant4105]

Blackshields should be a single hero unit with a lot of attacks any chapter can take

[@Spikedspaget]

Good one from you once again. Thank you.

[@mikriper3702]

The best primares marine is hellblaster Sargent Mornacani from the dark angels (the book he’s in is “War of secrets )

[@Arbiter55555]

Any time Primaris and Firstborn are compared and contrasted in a conflicting way I love it. Need more stories like this across the Imperium. I’m a space marine fan for sure, but I agree that a lot of authors write them as inhuman, ESPECIALLY in the indomitus era. Lots of super cool one off characters and chapter masters like Pedro Kantor are just not there anymore. His banter with Alessio Cortez was always hilarious to read. Glad to hear this story is out there. Might even go read it myself

[@BIGBOSS-bu1jt]

that particular wolf spear is in a short story in the book successors ho does meat up with the VLKA FENRYKA

[@NightLordShadow]

I believe the wolfspear did indeed get a book or short story. The name is escaping my memory, but it apparently wasn’t bad.

[@chetmanley1885]

Justinian is great, and honestly I hope he volunteers for the Deathwatch or becomes a blackshield. Dawn of Fire had some interesting moments; from Primaris Marines who come across like actual children (they kind of are) Captain Messinius, Sergeant Lucerne (who appears in Godblight), formerly an Imperial Fists unnumebered son wjo joined the Black Templars due to his religious views. Quality across the series has been up and down though. And Tetrarch Felix who you get some more insight into in the Great Work, specifically how messed up the process lf becoming a Primaris marine was for the Awakened.

[@g.sergiusfidenas6650]

A kinda scary thing is that the Novamarines are pretty standard, their traditions are not particularly gruesome and incidents like that massacre are not their usual MO; a Primaris being sent to the Mortifactors, Death Spectres or Doom Eagles really would feel so out of place due their morbid outlook and one sent to the Marines Malevolent, Red Talons and Iron Hands would probably mentally break seeing the way they do things like purposefully harm civilians to prove a point

[@kaitracksmalgom]

“people like the traitor marines more” Basically nightlords and iron warriors

[@unnamedenemy9]

and Black Legion and Death Guard and Emperor's Children and Thousand Sons and World Eaters (the black legion books and Lords of Silence and Fabius Bile and Ahriman and Kharn)

[@kaitracksmalgom]

@@unnamedenemy9 who likes the emperor’s children post heresy? theirs some good characters during but not after

[@unnamedenemy9]

@@kaitracksmalgom I mentioned that -- Fabius Bile has an entire trilogy and is one of the main characters in Genefather. Also I've seen quite a few people calling for Eidolon to come back and get a book of his own post-heresy, as he's getting one set during the heresy and he appears in the aforementioned Bile trilogy.

[@kaitracksmalgom]

@@unnamedenemy9 I guess but Fabius bile isn’t really part of the emperors children anymore And I was mostly talking about legions as referring to either popular warbands not specific characters but you are right about those characters being popular

[@N1ghtrunner626]

I thought Zephon survived because he founds a blood angels successor chapter

[@Ashasverus]

It's tough with marines, because they're literally monastic. Even when there isn't the religious element, they still have that single pointed focus. That isn't to say they can't be interesting (for me, it's Grimauldus), but there is a narrower scope of what you can do with them as characters.

[@Matt-md5yt]

Happy Birthday dude and sweet topic today

[@MordredSimp]

Loyalist Marines don't have 10,000 Years of Hate and Experience to stew in the same as Traitors. So most of the time they feel less interesting, but some Loyalists rise above the rest

[@justinianthegreat1444]

And he's named after me!

[@RubyGalaxyYT]

I'd like to see a story series of Justinian, Maxentius and the techmarine seperating from the Nova Marines to find a chapter that they would fit in more. Personal fav character story I'd like to see is Gabreial Angelos Chapter Master of the Blood Ravens not being able to cross the Rubicon and having to deal with his mortal limt from all the wounds that he gather from his time fighting and having to adjust to the fact that he would be surpassed one day and have him come to terms with that, essentially it would be a transitional story for him to a mentor type role for a new character to come in, and I'd like to see characters develop and grow into new roles and not just stuck in the same box when they debut' in.

[@crowtein677]

Uriel Ventris and Gabriel Seth are the best written loyalists