The Genius of Cults

[@WisecrackEDU]

If you were going to start a cult . . . what would your main ideas be? What would the wardrobe be? And what would you ultimately get cancelled for?

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

Not cults For me. Christendom is My souce of conmfort. Although it was a cult at one point

[@__-tz6xx]

Any cult that discourages supernatural woo woo that other cults and ideas of thought do. Would it still be a cult without supernatural woo woo? Without the "I don't have the answers so I place my trust in something which cannot be evidently proven but I believe anyway because it makes me feel good to place trust in something that might be there which is higher power"? Is it still a cult without the pretending to know something which you don’t and doing that pretending with so much enthusiasm that other people join in the buffoonery because they like that energy.

[@nevskislake]

I remember as a little kid, one of my teachers said, "Everyone has a good novel in them." So my cult is going to be designed at helping those who have a "good novel" in them but don't have the time, the courage, or the discipline to write that novel achieve their dreams. You join my little cult, "Literal You" and for a *cough* fee (depending on your income level), you give the cult leaders the elevator pitch for your novel, and we design a complete Vrbo experience around that pitch. Are you going to bring Westerns back into the mainstream? We will design a cabin in the Western style and even provide you gunslinger attire to wear while you write your novel. We will provide nanny and cooking services, if you need to get away from your family to write your great novel, and we will have helpful motivational coaches and editors on staff to help guide you through the process. What will we get cancelled for? Well for every budding John Scalzi or Terry Pratchett that we might make a success out of, there is going to be that person that writes the 2024 equivalent of The Turner Diaries...not that you'd have a hard time finding something of that ilk in the vast library of KU indie titles right now.

[@taomaster2486]

Cats

[@demiller74]

John Deere sucks... International Harvester hats and t shirts... cancelled?

[@Raziel312]

"You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, start a religion." - L. Ron Hubbard

[@kewgardensstation]

Well, you don't get rich writing science fiction if you're L. Ron Hubbard. The most prolific author of all time and he STILL couldn't make a living writing science fiction.

[@EnkiduShamesh]

@@kewgardensstation To be fair, most NYT best selling authors can't afford to quit their day job. Writing fiction rarely makes enough money to be a full time job unless you get a steady gig. This is why the writers strike was so important. People who write for shows seen by millions of people were wondering if they were going to loose their one bedroom apartment. Writers get about as big a percentage of what they produce as a farmer does, if that. Edit: For the record, Hubbard's books suck, both the ones he actually wrote and those that were ghost written for him by followers.

[@thishandleistacken]

Heheh my ex-cult did s-x magick rituals with L Ron Hubbard. Look up the Babalon Workings. L Ron and Scientology claims he was on a "secret mission to infiltrate the OTO" but no... no he wasn't XD Both the OTO and Scientology are ridiculous. At least it led to some good stories. I'm really surprised The Babalon Working hasn't been made into a film yet.

[@EnkiduShamesh]

@@thishandleistacken Oh I've heard. I'm half convinced that Scientology pays the COTO to stay quiet.

[@spencerjames9417]

The church of god the utterly indifferent is the only religion that makes sense

[@diogohenriquemagal6960]

In Creed's words: "I've been involved in a number of cults, both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower, but you make more money as a leader".

[@gudduentertains]

😂

[@feralhomunculus]

Creed 😂🤣 Never thought I'd see someone quote the douchiest Christian "Rock" band.

[@mjjjuly]

​@@feralhomunculusnot sure if you are being sarcastic, but he meant the character Creed from The Office.

[@pushingthroughthepaperthin9616]

I'm pretty sure that you have more fun as the leader.

[@nicokl5593]

😂 creed is my favorite

[@nimged8952]

"We are not a cult!", is exactly what a cult leader would say!

[@EdyGlockenspiel]

It's what Christians say when you call them cultists.

[@Marcusmarcb0tI]

But they might also deflate the claim by "reclaiming" it. I've seen this as well.

[@thishandleistacken]

Yep. My ex-cult the OTO used to say that all the time.

[@HotelCode]

But it is also what someone that is not a cult leader would say. Do not forget that

[@TheCrizon]

The cult catch 22

[@JKenjiLopezAlt]

Michael, have you ever considered the possibility that I may be your twin flame?

[@WisecrackEDU]

Holy crap. Literally cooked one of your recipes for dinner last night! If the culinary game is any indication, it would be an HONOR to be your twin flame. Also I know you're a super busy person - but if you ever have time would love to have you come on our stream and talk about food and science the culture of eating. Huge fan!

[@alastairhewitt380]

@@WisecrackEDU It must be a sign from the Flying Spaghetti Monster on high

[@MrWoodard91]

Would love to see Kenji in a video here!

[@tikimillie]

I see a long and sucessful relationship in your future. In fact you fall madly in love over dinner. And have children, biological, somehow. Through the power of the potato chrispt.

[@johngaunce]

"People don't fall for cons because they're stupid, they fall for cons because they're human" - Brian Brushwood

[@justinwatson1510]

That's what keeps capitalism chugging along. Just keep grinding, and maybe one day you can wear the boot!

[@johnsimmons6637]

Huma equals highly intelligent but equally stupid. Some of the most intelligent people are easily manipulated and gullible

[@turtleanton6539]

Yes

[@badbabybear1]

Cults appeal to people's need for community, direction, and meaning. It's very understandable why people fall into them. They also reflect some people's base need for control and attention. To me, cults are amplifications of humanity's inclination towards cliques and in-groups. This type of behavior plays out in a less extreme way in workplaces, gyms, and all sorts of other places.

[@getnohappy]

The most surprising thing about Twin Flames was it took a relatively long time to get to the "you all have to sleep with the leader" phase. Maybe a pandemic lag?

[@theeternalgus9119]

Probably a skill issue.

[@aasante3437]

"Do not be so open minded your brains fall out"- G.K Chesterton

[@xczechr]

"The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it." - Terry Pratchett

[@epelly3]

I love how Michael keeps comparing improv to cults

[@WisecrackEDU]

Sadly it's from experience.

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

​@@WisecrackEDU😂😂😂😂😂

[@TheJillers]

I worship at the altar of yes and.

[@jonathanneal1319]

Did Bojack save Todd from an improv group in the middle of the ocean, or was I just still disgusted from him and Penny. Because I thought both were true.

[@Bullfrog777]

I just signed up for my second class, should I be worried?

[@EinsamPibroch278]

It's not fair: I was relentlessly Bullied all my life for being Weird, and now that I trauma-conditioned myself to keep my Autism in Check and behave passably normal, I'm still ostracized for being a Square while people weirder than me are making all the money.

[@sadgoy.]

"Hell is other people."

[@yourfriendlyinternetmeatshield]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. It's a sick sad, mad world.

[@sadgoy.]

@@yourfriendlyinternetmeatshield More like a sick, sad world.😉

[@jerrimenard3092]

This is why I refuse to mask at all anymore. Ever since the pandemic I just look and act as freakish as I want. If people don't like it, they can kiss me where it splits.

[@sadgoy.]

@jerrimenard3092 I feel the same way. Most people suck anyway. Not worth the effort pandering to assholes. Set boundaries and defend them to the end even if it means being the biggest dickhead in the room.

[@danielandersson2146]

Great analysis! I like that you touched on the connection between cult tactics and modern marketing & influencers. Sparked my interest to learn more

[@katy9569]

I just wanted to say that Twin Flames has been a spiritual concept popular within the new age community for a while. What these people did different is that they created the idea that if someone is your twin flame, you HAVE to be together. And that's not healthy or realistic, which lead to people ultimately stalking their alleged twin flames.

[@davidsenra2495]

New Age has grown to be as obnoxious, dangerous and dogmatic as organized religion with time, eventually even giving rise to the anti-vaxxx movement. It's so vile.

[@ignatiusjackson235]

Stupid piles onto stupid.

[@Prrcyval]

As always with cults, it's easier to trick someone, than to convince them that they've been tricked.

[@syntheticjesso]

See also: abusive relationships.

[@davidsenra2495]

Cults and conspiracy theories are actually your everyday abusive relationship, but with organized religion and fringe ideas replacing the romantic partner.

[@dinosaysrawr]

The most effective scams and conspiracies cater to people's desire to be smarter than the average bear and have access to special perks or special wisdom that the normies/sheeple/rubes don't!

[@HomeFromFarAway]

​@@davidsenra2495 yep. I grew up with parents who got instantly addicted to anything that even smelled of this

[@angelam.4670]

Thanks for being nice to crystal people. Sometimes it's just easier to put your faith into a rock than other human beings.

[@JaceDeanLove]

Oh I'm nice to them. I just find it silly

[@angelam.4670]

[@michelecole362]

You know what got me about crystals? Their actual physical properties and quartz clocks.

[@HomeFromFarAway]

beware of all magical thinking though. it sets you up for abusive people ❤

[@michelecole362]

@@JaceDeanLove that is beautiful! Some people I love are kind that way.

[@sweetb2750]

Yea I did ghost a guy at the restaurant, but it was because his ramble start to go towards his revenge fantasy of possibly hurting women and possible SA, but chuckled as if it was funny jokes. The alarms in my head start to go off and I didn’t feel safe. I did text him later that I didn’t think we were in the same place in life and good luck on finding someone when he is in a healthier place. Then blocked him. 🤷🏾‍♀️

[@MGood-ij1hi]

One thing that separates the cultist from the philosopher is that the cultist will swear that they have " the answer", where no philosopher would ever make that claim. Philosophers specialize in questions , knowing that no one will ever have the final answer to any question.

[@neoqwerty]

Philosophers will take your question, give you like 5 theories that ALL raise 10 more questions each, and then leave you questioning why you wanted that answer and slowly chewing on your new notebook's worth of questions about yourself.

[@jacobdriscoll8276]

I'd start a cult of people who have jobs similar to mine where we'd all stop working if some corporate overlord tried to screw us over. We'd continue to organize and work together until no one who worked was economically insecure. We'd get cancelled over mob connections, I think.

[@CatBarefield]

That’s a union 😂

[@Nikki_the_G]

​@@CatBarefield That's the joke. 🙄

[@HomeFromFarAway]

sounds like Iceland..

[@NoNotThatPaul]

You, Michael, are a very charismatic cult leader, those improv classes totally paid off

[@realericanderson]

The online dating bit was interesting. Appreciate you guys putting some work in to give the cult leader some props after describing the underpinnings, great work team!

[@danyosuna7276]

The distrust on "traditional" institutions have pumped a lot of cults lately. There are brands with cult-like behavior as well (like apple) and celebrities with followings as well. It is scary to see how accurate the "God is dead" thing is.

[@petevphotography]

I ghosted a girl on a date at a bar in 2006. But in my defense she kept calling me “a goofy goober”. I asked her repeatedly to stop or I’d leave but she persisted to call me a “goofy goober”. I have no regrets.

[@WisecrackEDU]

That's totally fair.

[@Delmworks]

The line between pet name and schoolyard taunt is a fine one and should be a whole lot larger

[@777mxr]

She was part of the goofy goober cult. It's a good thing that you left when you did otherwise she might have brainwashed you into joining.

[@gaywizard2000]

My friend knew a girl who thought an endearing term was "peanut", is this a thing with some girls? Yeesh!

[@PeterSchmuttermaier]

I would have agreed and started to sing the goofy goober song aloud, every time she'd have called me that. Either she'd stopped, or she'd left through the bathroom window. Or we would have gone to her place and have a wild goofy goober's night. Any way, it would have been fun.

[@thishandleistacken]

I'm an ex-cult member. I was in the Ordo Templi Orientis for about 10 years and left a few years back (wasn't easy, but it was most certainly the right choice). Of all the cults out there the OTO is one of the more harmless ones but it has an oversized effect on history and subcultures since it was led for its most successful years by Aleister Crowley who turned it from the "Academia Masonica" and poor-man's attempt to reconstitute the Bavarian Illuminati the founders (Theodore Reuss and Carl Kellner) intended it to be into a cult of personality surrounding Crowley himself and his new religion called Thelema. The OTO also has an inner order called the A.'.A.'. which is the Astrum Argentum and they are essentially Crowley's copy-paste of the Golden Dawn's curriculum after he helped caused the schism that brought down the original Hermetic Order of The Golden Dawn. What most people think of occultism and magick all comes from the OTO, Golden Dawn and A.'.A.'. since even Wicca comes from Gerald Garnder who was asked by Crowley to lead the OTO but declined to do his own thing. NASA engineer Jack Parsons of the American OTO did s-x magick rituals with L Ron Hubbard before Hubbard created Scientology in a fiasco called The Babalon Working (certainly a tale worth looking up for some good chuckles). My Lodge was in Canada and was mostly filled with chill people from all walks of life. We had a 32nd degree mason who was a university teacher specializing in translating ancient Sanskrit, we had punk rock construction workers, kink scene folk and ravers, crisis phone therapists, artists, students, parents, poly witches, modern alchemists and the list goes on. Unlike most cults they encouraged me to have a strong connection with my parents, told me off (kindly) when I had a substance issue (you can't get to 2nd degree if your "Will" is under the influence to an extent it controls your life choices) and almost all of them were fun to hang out with whether to chat or party... but meanwhile in the US where Grand Lodge is the 2016 election happened and started a split in the higher degrees (9th-11th) since a particular member, the late James Wasserman, was a militant Trumpist and while politics are supposed to stay outside the Lodge he would not stop. An extremist member, Augustus Sol Invictus, was only expelled from the Order AFTER he made the news for being a keynote speaker at Unite The Right (despite having authored abhorrent and violent racist magazines before all this). Several members of the Proud Boys joined such that if you look up the founder of the Proud Boys one of the main pics you'll find of Gavin to his right you'll see a guy wearing a hoody I think it was that has a unicursal hexagram and the number 93 below it (93 is the number of the "Thelemic Current" and the unicursal hexagram is the symbol). That man wearing that died of an OD not long ago which is quite sad regardless how much I despise Proud Boys. There's pics of him with other Proud Boys wearing shirts that have the OTO lamen on it, there's pics of James Wasserman with Milo Yioanopolis, pics of Wasserman with Roger Stone... and it turns out Wasserman was the A.'.A.'. student of the leader of the OTO Bill Breeze (the A.'.A.'. is a teacher to student lineage that goes back to Crowley's students). When I joined the OTO there were several A.'.A.'. lineages but Wasserman delcared with full authority that the OTO would now only accept his A.'.A.'. as legitimate and the rest must shut down (including what was likely the most popular at the time, one led by the left leaning progressive psychologist David Shoemaker). None of this politics effected my Lodge at all (it was localized to the US) but it made me reflect on my life choices quite a lot and I began to distance myself and start researching the Order's history and oh boy did I find a lot of dirt. The guy that runs the site I'm about to mention is without doubt nuts but he was a member and interacted with my own Lodge in the past before I was born in the 80s (he even has a page dedicated to 5$ of member dues my Lodemaster spent on... nose stuff... which he replaced immediately). So yeh the primary sources he has on this site are good (the OTO has been trying to get it shut down for years but it is hosted in Sweden) and the sources can be verified. The site is called "parareligion" with the subtitle "the OTO phenomenon". It's a good starting point accompanied by Francis King's "The Secret Rituals of the OTO" which he wrote when the Order seemed done for in the 70s. These 2 sources are where I learned about some awful stuff. Just some of that stuff includes FBI documents showing past leader Karl Germer saying some positive things about ideas put forth by WW2's evil moustache man (yes, Germer was himself in a concentration camp because of being a "friend of the Mason Crowley" but none the less he thought his people were "superior". Then I discovered the schism that occurred that made the current OTO the only OTO through silly court battles when it had actually collapsed in the 60s or 70s leading to a cult called Solar Lodge abusing a child, a Lovecraft cult called the Typhonian OTO trying to summon aliens and other absurdities. As I mentioned before the cccult author Francis King considered the OTO to be a finished lineage so he published all the degree initiations in a book called The Secret Rituals of The OTO (easily found by Googling for the PDF) and while some minor things have changed since the publication those initiations match the ones I went through nearly exactly... except I didn't get to the 8th or 9th... I knew and didn't care it had to do with s-x but I didn't know it was as stupid and insane as it truly is. I don't think I can write about it here but feel free to look into it. It includes trying to create a Homunculus, so that's... not fun. I read that book, read Parareligion, saw everything Wasserman was doing... and yep... left pretty quick after that.

[@surbhidhuppad786]

Oh my. What even

[@thishandleistacken]

@@surbhidhuppad786 Yeh... I ask myself the same question pretty often!

[@juicyparsons]

Well damn

[@thishandleistacken]

@@AsWellYouShould Yeeeeh you're right, I know that's frustrating. I'll edit to break it up into paragraphs and try n not to do that in the future. Tis a bad habit. My bad. (edit: broke it up in semi-coherent places I'm a little busy atm so didn't take the time to put them exactly where they should be.... but it'll be an easier read)

[@thagomizer4711]

Hope you still took some positives with you when you left. My interactions with thelemites led me to become a better person, but the wasserman influence really killed all interest I had in the organization.

[@haldreamt]

Thanks!

[@WisecrackEDU]

Thank YOU.

[@noirsociety]

"When one guy sees an invisible man he's a nut case; ten people see him it's a cult; ten million people see him it's a respected religion." -- Richard Jeni

[@Potatotenkopf]

REAL🫡

[@MultiPaulinator]

Ever since not too long after I stopped being catholic, I've felt that every cult was an adolescent religion.

[@joegibbskins]

@@MultiPaulinatoryeah it’s why most experts prefer the term “high control group” to refer to cults. Too often cult is just thrown around to mean new religions, when high control groups are what are dangerous and they can exist within established religions. Ie, many charismatic pastors have elements of cult leaders despite existing within a broader Christian continuum. Or like the Catholic Church is not a cult, but the Opus Dei movement within that Catholic Church is a cult.

[@davidsenra2495]

@joegibbskins Excellent comment.

[@HomeFromFarAway]

​@@joegibbskinsIt's an interesting distinction. I don't personally believe that any religion is sane or healthy, but I appreciate that it is a continuum and that certain profiles and dynamics are way more psychotic than others.

[@mievaa00]

i recommend to read "when prophecy fails" book which explains why some members of cults are even more loyal to their leader after the leaders prophesy has failed

[@jaceshaffer8104]

I know that its been touched on in several of your videos but I'd love a video that goes specifically into when a Fandom or fan base becomes a cult. Seems like an obvious enough answer but you guys always bring out the great hidden nuances of any topic and I think it'd be a great discussion

[@AmbivalentDreams]

StrangeAeons has some great videos about just that!

[@jaceshaffer8104]

@@AmbivalentDreams thank you for the recommendation

[@neoqwerty]

@@jaceshaffer8104 I'd second the StrangeAeons rec and specifically tell you to look up Snapeism/the Snape Wives, which was the strangest thing I ever saw a fandom do.

[@jaceshaffer8104]

@@neoqwerty I will thank you for the rec!

[@HomeFromFarAway]

I would argue that there is a reality tv star in politics with a fanbase that has turned into an outright cult 🟧🤦‍♂️

[@tzgaming207]

I almost got roped into the Elizabeth Clare Prophet "Church Universal & Triumphant"/"Ascended Masters" scene in the early 90s. I was going through a period where I had no confidence in organized religions anymore, but hadn't yet abandoned the notion of divinity, supernatural, & metaphysical, yet. I think I went to 2 or 3 of their get-togethers & a "conference" (which became apparent was just an event to shill books; books of utter nonsense & fantasy). To quote an infamous Coloradan, "Screw you guys, I'm going home"

[@nannywhumpers5702]

I have a box full of crystals, so many of them. I love them! Such pretty shiny rocks. The box just sits there. It doesn't glow, move or have fairies flying around it, so I'm pretty sure they are just rocks.

[@strawberrylime33]

I wonder how much strength I'd have to notice when a cult is trying to sweep me up, and how much willpower I'd have to leave if I ever became wrapped up in one. It's all terrifying.

[@julietfischer5056]

Once in, the cult becomes your support system, which makes it hard to leave. There's also the sunk cost fallacy: you put in so much effort to belong that you continue finding reasons to stay. Getting in? Well, the cult provides validation for your beliefs and struggles. They seem to accept you for who you are, which can be a balm for those who are social outcasts or who feel like outsiders.

[@ignatiusjackson235]

If you're smart enough to ask that question, then I wouldn't be too concerned.

[@nevskislake]

Is everyone susceptible to joining a cult? No. Not everyone has a need to belong to a larger group. Not everyone feels like their life is meaningless or empty unless they are participating in some form of religion. Some people are more comfortable being alone or having one or two people they are close with, and that is it. I am not sure what that says about folks like me. I mean, I play Sims 4 for fun, so I am pretty ripe for ridicule in my own right. That said, the most fascinating documentary I ever watched was about the Heaven's Gate cult, because it dispels the idea that everyone who joins a cult is an idiot. Aimless, possibly, but not necessarily dumb. Heaven's Gate had some highly intelligent (programmers and scientists) and highly creative people in its flock, but the commonalities their flock seemed to share was a tendency to disassociate from family and friends and a pervasive feeling of living an empty existence. I went into the documentary judging the members of the cult and ended the documentary feeling absolutely heartbroken for these total strangers. How many cults prey on people who struggle with their mental health? It is terrifying.

[@hollowman9410]

So having friends and touching grass makes you immune to cults?

[@nevskislake]

@@hollowman9410 - Sure. Why not?

[@justachannel8600]

​@@hollowman9410Only if your friends aren't in a cult themselves.

[@fearemary]

May I ask what's the name of the documentary?

[@phyrundeab9419]

9:26 I never left the middle of a date, but I was on a date; where she left. I knew she left because she text me she did after “going to the bathroom.” She initiated the date when we matched on hinge, I tried having a conversation, but I should have acknowledged the red flag where she kept looking at her phone. Happy that didn’t work out. I’m in a relationship with an amazing woman now and couldn’t be happier.

[@Ford_prefect_42]

All hail the raw dome. I mean... We're not a cult!

[@tinchick2]

My parents were in a religious cult. It's actually where they met. My mom had been in it since she was a teen and my dad since he was in his 20s. My sister and I were in it too once we came along, but thankfully, our family left when I was in 2nd grade and my sister was in 5th. It was not as extreme as the cults you tend to hear about, but the control and group think were extremely present. As well as the fear of eternal damnation.

[@amberhide04]

this just sounds like church

[@HomeFromFarAway]

similar here. Emissaries of Divine Light 😂. Doesn't sound like they were trying to be subtle, tbh

[@nandomgu]

'Never-ending slideshow of people who love travel and are both introverts and extroverts'😂

[@Armendicus]

6:13 Battle passes back then were wild!!

[@MitchQT123]

Comedy genius

[@1wayroad935]

Cults have always been for the desperate who feel like they have no one else to turn to or those who have been failed by everyone around them. Midsommar is literally this.

[@Anticrystal88]

Makes sense. People who are desperate for meaning in what is essentially a meaningless existence will turn to all sorts of things to try and feel better. Accepting that we just are and there's no discernable reason for it -- at least one we will likely never understand -- is unbearable to many.

[@Noms_Chompsky]

@@Anticrystal88 Oh nooo! Evian look out! Move, Evian it's coming right...awwww. I was rolling my rock up that hill and started thinking if what you said means that consumer capitalism is a cult and then the rock got away from me. Now I've got to roll that rock back up again from all the way at the bottom. Well, I hope you're happy Evian.

[@Anticrystal88]

😁@@Noms_Chompsky

[@danyosuna7276]

There is an interview from the director saying that Midsommar is about facism and white supremacy, which makes a lot of sense once you think about it

[@harryburganjr.969]

16:17 So many great Barlow songs! Very hard to choose. I gotta say that Cassidy has some of the best Grateful Dead imagery ever though. I had no idea he was so instrumental in helping us to understand the internets role in the history of consciousness! (If that is a correct way of putting it)

[@taipolar333]

"Black Throated Wind" hits the spot

[@computerguru52]

I had to scroll way too far to find a Barlow song. I was also going to go with Black Throated Wind, but there are so many good ones that I'm happy to name another. Let's go with "Looks Like Rain."

[@TheAllSeeingEye2468]

Christianity was a cult at one point and somehow its still around

[@WisecrackEDU]

That's a good point - we imagine religions as these eternal things but at one point every religion was some dudes starting a cult of sorts.

[@danielsantiagourtado3430]

​@@WisecrackEDUtell me about it!

[@TheAllSeeingEye2468]

@@WisecrackEDU pretty much all religions started as cults and only a hand few of them are still around and have almost all the power. Catholicism and Christianity being the most powerful.

[@xczechr]

I blame Constantine.

[@PeterSchmuttermaier]

@@TheAllSeeingEye2468 Not quite. Most start out as sects, splinter groups that want to go "back to the roots" or in a "truer" direction, after the religious main branch grew too institutionalized. At some point, those sects then become institutions of their own, since large numbers of members need this kind of organization. Christianity started out as a Jewish sect. All Christian flavors of today started out as sects. Even Islam was considered a Jewish and/or Christian sect at first. But you are right, Something totally new starts as a cult and can grow into a Religion, with Scientology being a great example.

[@Jaynevermore319]

The after high school prediction my classmates gave me was that I'd one day lead a cult. I'm ashamed to admit that I've yet to do so.

[@DomyTheMad420]

3:00 it always amuses me to no end when people go "they were higher educated and therefore not dumb." getting a 'higher' education just means you worked hard. hard work through repetitive memorization and taking a lot of tests does not make you smart. it makes you well learned.

[@Delmworks]

Can confirm, have a masters and feel like a dumbass on the regular

[@Ada-z7v]

How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world.

[@JawnLenin]

Always refreshing and thoughtful videos, appreciate y'all. 👏 Gotta say Estimated Prophet for the Barlow track with Cassidy as a close second

[@WisecrackEDU]

Yeah after reading through all the good Barlow responses, I think I gotta go Estimated Prophet. Maybe the best Bob/Barlow song in the GD songbook.

[@SolarimSolarim]

Oh boy… I would love to hear yall talk about the psychology/philosophy behind stuff like Final Fantasy House and Bit of Earth where there’s cult behaviors mixed with like… extreme maladaptive day dreaming/mass delusion? Would eat that video up lol

[@Marx1684]

Thanks for this one. Locking in.

[@DrySushi]

Yes, they are in fact jebronis. I empathize with how lonely they must have felt to fall into something so stupid but yeesh. That technology mysticism take is really interesting, would love to see a full episode on that.

[@Beloved-x1e]

Without leaps of imagination, or dreaming, we lose the excitement of possibilities. Dreaming, after all, is a form of planning.

[@meganelizabethmoon]

I was never ditched midway through a date, but I was stood up. We confirmed plans about 2 hours before we were supposed to meet up for our date, and he never showed up. I later learned that he went on a date with someone else he'd been holding out for.

[@philipkinga7123]

Add something like shared to the twin flames universe and you get one of the best acronyms ever. It works both for and against the cult.

[@stevielove4778]

“…baked up by your stoned college roommate who took intro to religion-“ Only if your college roommate had a personality-disorder ; that’s a very RELEVANT factor that goes largely unexplored.

[@TheRaven8]

Former long time cult member here. This was excellent. Thank you

[@dotsdot5608]

i have a crystal worry stone. ive read up the meaning of each stone, but i just like it cause its pretty. my trichotillomania has subsided also cause i play with the stone rather than my hair

[@Yeltikelli]

Jesus himself was only one of thousands of random prophets, saviours, god incarnates and spiritual guides wandering around the levant and roman empire in that period. The Near East has known multiple periods of widespread messianic expectations and mass fear (or yearning) for the imminent apocalypse. Most of these individuals didnt make it to global celebrity status, but they are still super fun to learn about

[@userMB1]

The yearning for spirituality and connection with a loving community is simply too strong with a lot of people. It becomes unbearable even. The main reason for the lack of these two essentials values is hyper-individualism and the dominant materialistic view on life and the universe. To see the world as inherently meaningless is simply too bitter of a pill to swallow. Life, mind, conscience, emotions, feeling, relations, love etc. just so cells simply can keep dividing feels unnatural and very unsatisfying to say the least. The world is demystified thanks to science and particularly theory of evolution. Religion has a bad rep for a lot of valid reasons so that's not a valid option for them. I wish Michael could answer this question: _What do you do when you're an atheist and you are yearning for spirituality and connection with loving community without cults and religion?_ Invalidate those feelings? What would you recommend?

[@chadjones1266]

People with strong religious beliefs already have that cult slot filled.

[@dinosaysrawr]

Also, people who've been raised in a cult or cult-like milieu will be more susceptible to *other* predatory, controlling, and/or scammy people and movements, because their radar for that sort of thing has never been properly calibrated. See: Fundagelical women who are also heavily involved in MLMs.

[@HomeFromFarAway]

agreed. religions are inherently cultish, but hopefully enough reality is allowed in to counteract the magical thinking and delusions

[@T_Dot94]

The fact that Jesus's orgin story was during the violent expansionism of the Roman Empire and the symbol of a dead guy on cross being their symbol makes you realize how morbid and depraved things must've been during that whole period.

[@TheJ_G]

Their twin flame matching is exactly how Micheal Scott played Cupid with his employees on The Office. Haha

[@thejimreaper563]

Nice video! For more on cults, Canadaland’s commons podcast is currently doing a well done series 👍

[@grapeshot]

The difference between a cult and a religion is a religion has been doing their BS much longer.

[@RealAICCl]

Unfathomably based

[@beccamv8888]

True one of the reasons I don’t go to church I personally don’t believe in organised religion, but I do respect other peoples beliefs as long as it has nothing to do with hurting and or killing anyone or anything other than that I just let them be them

[@FellaGuy2]

No, the difference is a cult follows a man who claims he is, or can talk to God. A religion is the same but that guy's dead.

[@RealAICCl]

@@beccamv8888 but by default their beliefs are going to be forced on others, that’s just how religion works, you can “respect” anything all you want. You can “respect” the mugger as he stabs you. I personally would rather not get stabbed and sacrifice the respect

[@InMaTeofDeath]

@@FellaGuy2 So if we follow that logic to it's conclusion that would mean while Jesus was alive he was a cult leader who claimed he was and could talk to god. Then once he dies it becomes a religion? Does that mean I can start my own cult which becomes a religion after my death?

[@MrJrod809]

I just recently watched Netflix's Twin Flames documentary. and all I could say was "WOW" ☹😱

[@BabyBat14]

As a left hand path practitioner, I can't help but feel the uncanny similarity between neoliberalism and LHP ideology. Like our path has become a vehicle for the worship of individualism and capitalism

[@thenightwatchman1598]

LOL. your just figuring that out. as a gnostic i admire your gaining of self awareness. most satanists dont have any..

[@BabyBat14]

@@thenightwatchman1598 actually I've figured that out for a few years now. It's important to remember LHP =/= Satanism. LHP is faaaar older than capitalism itself, but it's ironic how our neoliberal culture appropriated it

[@felixdubois31]

Lol, KZbin chose to interrupt the Wisecrack about cults and cultish behaviour with an ad for manifesting money through astral resonance secrets.

[@Noms_Chompsky]

It's a sign

[@juliaa.8594]

Your videos are so well thought out, I’d join your cult in a heartbeat!

[@mary-janebrewington8503]

Can you do an episode on the ethics of quoting the good parts of bad ideas or from bad people?

[@WisecrackEDU]

We did an episode earlier this year on the ethics of consuming art made by bad people but I think we could maybe also just explore bad people with good ideas.

[@Stealthkiller17]

Even this channel seems to become more and more like a cult. So Touché.

[@toomuchdata]

I don't have the numbers but I'm willing to bet that there's a very high correlation between cult-susceptible people and childhood trauma resulting from growing up in broken homes. At least in my experience, I don't think I've never seen (in person or in a documentary) a single person who joined a cult who came from a tight nuclear family with loving mom and dad.

[@mikeseymour1792]

Look harder. There are 10s of thousands.

[@hadara69]

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." ~Lucius Annaeus Seneca 4BCE - 65"AD"

[@mikeseymour1792]

Truer words have never been spoken on this subject.

[@VodShod]

I don't think I will ever be able to join a cult even if I wanted to. I don't really keep interest in such structured groups for a long period of time, and I tend to disconnect rather easily.

[@HomeFromFarAway]

dissociation can be a risk factor, especially in more political or "rationalist" control groups

[@DocEonChannel]

I dunno if this is because of the video's topic, but the favorite Barlow/Weir tune that comes to mind is "Estimated Prophet"...

[@imc440]

I just went to the museum with the Alex Grey painting you put up at 14:30 last weekend. Church of Sacred Mirrors. Cool place.

[@NB_Wildflower]

Cults figured out parasocial relationships way before social media

[@deadsirius3531]

The craziest part about that twin flames thing, like you mentioned, is that the leaders have zero charisma. That guy always sounded like he was just making it up as he went and looked like even he couldn't believe anyone was taking him seriously

[@mikeseymour1792]

It makes them more relatable to the average person. Enabling them to seem more genuine. It's insidious.

[@jimsquire-chestnuts8381]

Was a date for a Residence formal dance at university but my favourite ska-punk band was coming to town so I “went to the bathroom”, changed outta my suit and ran to the show. No regrets.

[@TheWesterlyWarlock]

I completely fell out when I was thinking, "Man that doesn't seem TOTALLY messed up though I can get how that could be bad in excess," and then Michael is like "I am trying to murder myself, please help!" 💀💀💀

[@lushiousification]

7:10, "Ooooh THIS is the bad place"

[@Uriel238]

I have neither ghosted someone mid-date nor been ghosted in over fifty first-encounters. I've had some pretty quick _not interested_ admissions; a couple of emergency departures (convincing emergencies); and one person tell me _it's too soon after my break-up._ I've had plenty of instances in which contact went dead _after_ a coffee date. And I had one short fling ending by discovering she _moved without notice or forwarding address_ after she hit on my roommate, so yeah, _awkward._

[@Zernebogus]

One of your best! Thanks 😅

[@Fenrisson]

9:34 - I barely ever *went* on dates! But in the two or three that I went, over a decade ago, I didn't get ghosted. It wasn't a thing back then.

[@itkirk]

I finished watching the “love has won” documentary on HBO max and I have got to say I’m just confounded with how people can believe in such absurdities like a regular woman being the goddess of earth, and a random dude she chooses just so happens to be “father god”. I was so frustrated at the end of it because even after “mother god” was essentially murdered by them and everything she said would happen never happened they still believed she was a god and has “ascended”. These people’s minds were absolutely destroyed by drugs, alcohol and colloidal silver, or they’re just straight up delusional. I find that cults all require the members to be in some altered state of mind to submit themselves to it.

[@neoqwerty]

Nope, you just have to be lonely/isolated/desperate. And thinking "I'm too smart, it'll NEVER happen to me!" also helps you gulp down the flavor-aid unwittingly, of course. Unless you've taken courses on hypnotism and crowd suggestion from a specific subtype of stage magicians called "mentalistes" in french (they specialize in mind tricks, crowd control influencing, etc.), you are NOT above being pulled in with shit like lovebombing and the exact same tactics used by domestic abusers. (Yeah, domestic abusers and cults use the exact same M.O. to single out vulnerable targets and sucker them in to then suck them dry.)

[@UniDocs_Mahapushpa_Cyavana]

Cults ultimately prey on humans' desire for morality, however good/bad that morality is. In fact, the desire is so strong it can motivate the cult leaders themselves.

[@EddieM1994]

As an aromantic asexual, society's focus on romantic love as the most important relationship you have is such bull. Your friends, your family, even your pets, they're all important and they all enrich your life. Be the best, kindest and free-est version of yourself and then you'll be better able to deal with everything else going forward.

[@thenightwatchman1598]

you probably dont have that going for either. fucking neet.

[@botwhy]

I'm pretty sure the only reason I've never joined a cult is because I don't have the money for it

[@manetarofl]

Well... my usual response to everything that even looks like a cult is: roll eyes. I'm not spiritual or seek personal develpment. So I might be immune.

[@HomeFromFarAway]

political cults are a thing too.

[@dinninfreeman2014]

This lines up well with the philosophical conclusions I've been coming to about the impossibility of escaping the mystical

[@XEvilFoxX]

I had a gem phase, it took place during the time I was watching Steven Universe :)

[@juan.zabala]

Brilliant one, thank you. My personal belief is that even though transcendence is not available to humans, it will be granted to the AI gods we'll create.

[@Szznt]

Haven't ghosted anyone on a date, but I did once leave my date to go hang out with another group in the same club because she turned out to be racist and they looked they were having way more fun than I was. She stayed there the rest of the night, sitting in a corner and glaring. I had a good time at least.

[@darrenjackson4646]

"Looks like rain" if I want the feels and "the music never stopped" if I wanna dance

[@lr5848]

I had two incidents of ditching mid-date. At the first I simply was scared of the person. They gave me dangerous vibes, so I ditched the first moment I had the chance. The second one was a rather lovely fella, who made it clear early on that he is very desperately looking for a serious girlfriend. He kept on telling me how great I am and was very strong forward. I had the feeling, if I stayed, I had to explain my disinterest the rest of the night and I was not ready to listen to his life story and get sucked out emotionally. So I saved myself and ditched.

[@devanwetenkamp4781]

I did ditch a girl on a date when she was in the restroom. She was talking about her belief in her ability to astral project and it just didn't know what else to do. I also got ditched when I was in the bathroom be a girl before I did it to someone else.

[@GeminiTwinsofLove]

7:15 Maybe not giving a dollar, but certainly gave his ten cents.

[@AdnicajChiquis]

Open minded and intelligent people who are at their lowest or seeking guidance to fill a spiritual and emotional need are especially susceptible to cults. And cults come in all flavors - ethnicities, economic status, politics, etc.

[@MissAnn999]

The biggest tech cult has been Apple for years. There is a sense of people who use them feeling special. Feeling they are apart from the crowd of peons who use Windows and Android. No matter how terrible the business practices of the company become, they stay. That is a cult.

[@apextroll]

I've searched and searched, and I've only found one cult that I like.

[@generalnawaki]

4:59 That was back in April my guy.

[@andrewbenbow9257]

Hubbard's use of psychology and pay to win ideology as well as it's obvious manipulation of those who fall prey to such abuses could be credited to the rise of anti psychology cults as well. It's a wierd contradiction when the opposition of a cult help foment the creation of another cult.

[@tunessystem787]

I use crystals. And I agree with you - I don’t know if they have magical properties, but I hope they do. XD And, you know, if they don’t have any powers, then I appreciate the placebo effect I gain by believing it anyway!

[@neoqwerty]

To be fair crystals are pretty cool even if they don't have any powers. Signed, the geology nerd

[@tunessystem787]

​@@neoqwerty I'm also a geology nerd! Well, kinda. I've collected random rocks (not exclusively crystals) since as far back as I can remember. I finally got to take a geology class in college (one of the best classes I ever took - it even included a lab!). And now most of my stamina goes into trying to make enough money to keep me and my family alive, so I just look up the basics about some of my favorites from my collection when I have enough time/curiosity/energy... So maybe I'm just geology-inclined? I might not actually qualify as a nerd... >.>

[@entropyinreverse]

Oh, I 100% would have ended up in a cult if I'd ever come across one. Not even cause I'm gullible, more cause, you know... It's nice to be part of something.

[@rigobertogallardo1722]

Speaking of cults. Have you looked into The Garden? I would like to hear what you think. I agree with your point on commercialism and cult strategies. I have found myself coming back to some commercial websites thinking that maybe I can find something to buy for the sake of fulfillment.

[@HomeFromFarAway]

It's worth investigating the connection between cptsd, childhood neglect/trauma and cultic systems. That sort of craving often comes up for those of us who were raised in a "family cult" with one or more cluster B caregivers