The Genius Of Hot Water Heat Pumps

[@UndecidedMF]

If you have a heat pump water heater, what's been your experience? Secure your privacy with Surfshark! Enter coupon code UNDECIDED for an extra 3 months free at surfshark.deals/undecided If you liked this, check out Why Everyone is Wrong about the Apple Vision Pro (including me) kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIW5oXyJfbFgr5Y Correction: I've updated one of the charts used in the video. I converted therms to kWh for the gas vs. electric energy use chart. It's now truly apples to apples, which highlights how inefficient gas is vs. electric. But it also highlights how dirt cheap gas heating is! Updated chart is on my website in the article: undecidedmf.com/the-genius-of-hot-water-heat-pumps/

[@gavinmckee9211]

Love your content! You are great! Thank you

[@michaelmayhem350]

Why not get a tankless water heater?

[@timower5850]

Though you state how "meat locker cold" your utility room is, you make no mention of attempting to cool your house using the Rheem. It would save additional monies by cooling your house for free while allowing the Rheem access to a much greater volume of air from which to extract heat to heat your water.

[@TheStevedie]

i installed one in 2019. Love it, electricity use went way down. It was really easy to install too.

[@markthompson4567]

legionnaires disease is the issue you really likely to run into with a heat pump system you need to have your water heated too and moved around your system at at least 160F to kill the bactreia and most heat pumps heat the water to 130-140F and that's at the output not at the return point so the last sections of your system will never have water anywhere near the needed tempeture so you need to have the system flushed from time to time or you need to run a hybrid system of heat pump and old gas or oil heater to kill off the bacteria that gives legionnaires disease

[@scottleepeters]

As an HVAC guy I would like to point out something that is sort of glossed over here that can be a either a benefit or an annoyance mostly based off of climate and location. The concept for a heat pump comes down to moving heat is cheaper than generating it. That heat is coming from somewhere. In a standard heater it's coming from your utility. With this it is coming from your home air which is coming from your heater. I'm in Texas so for the vast majority of time, this is great as we are trying to cool the air anyways. In your situation it's great because you have the most efficient heater available. For someone in a drafty house that already has issues keeping temps in the cold north... Not so much. In our first to situations it is worth the added cost and complexity of more moving parts that will break and are not built to be easily serviced (at least not on the refrigerant circuit side). But this is a minor improvement to be done after focusing on things like passive saving with insulation and upgrading the highest energy consumers like your HVAC system. I do plan on installing one of these at my house and we have done a few for customers with standard water heaters in a hallway closet that vented directly into the houses air. So far so good! We're getting more options for these all the time. Great video and I want to secretly live in your maintenance room!

[@timcat1004]

I came to the comments to mention this. Where I live we heat for 9 months of the year. We heat mostly with NG forced air. I have a small kitchenet in my utility room. I heat that room with NG. In the summer it's already too cool in that room, So big fat nope for me ever getting one of these. What I do have is a direct vent ICB tank-less water heater. Check out the new ICB line up. Designed by techs for ease of maintenance. Only 4 moving parts and all easy to get at. Blows away my 13 year Noritz. What a pos that was. I'm glad my Noritz blew out the heat exchanger and I got a new IBC. It uses gas for freeze protect unlike the Noritz that used resistive heaters and often froze up. Last winter I got to test my IBC in minus 40 and it never frooze up once.

[@mountjoyv]

You don’t have to locate these in conditioned space. Ours is in the crawlspace. We heat 9 months a year and have no problems with HPWH and a mini-split/forced air heat pump heating the house. Saved enough over oil and electric resistance to charge our car.

[@melissachartres3219]

Based ON climate and location. You cannot base something off of something else. Great comment though! Take my upvote!

[@tgeliot]

​@@mountjoyvYou don't have to put them in conditioned space if you have some unconditioned space to put them in.

[@SuperS05]

​​@@mountjoyvefficiency plummets with cooler intake air. Even inside it's already dropping substantially, but throw freezing or subfreezing air at it and most HWHP will be approaching a COP of 1. They just struggle in cold climates, you still need to obey physics.

[@SnappyWasHere]

These water heaters in southern climates in garages are amazing. Basically free AC for your garage. Work amazing.

[@peter65zzfdfh]

Yeah, it's either free AC while it heats, free hot water while it cools. Whichever suits. Here for whatever reason we put them outside though (all types of hot water heaters go outside). Guessing it's the comparatively mild climate.

[@da3dsoul]

You can also get versions that only need a 120v outlet, since it requires so much less effort to pull the heat in the south.

[@bikerktmktm21x]

That is huge to know. I live in Las Vegas, if I can get "free" or by product cooled garage, I am one happy indiviual.

[@TeslaRebuilders]

@@da3dsoul Yes those are really to be a direct replacement of a gas water heater with only a 120v outlet nearby. They heat the water much slower in backup element mode than the 220v 20A ones do which are electric only replacements.

[@TeslaRebuilders]

I have mine in the attic and I closed off a section above my spray foam area to be outside but under the roof. It's super efficient in the summer due to roof temps getting around 120-140F, also heats way faster in heat pump only mode. Been working great like that for 12 years now and has saved the cost of 2200$ at the time 4 or 5 times over in electricity. I have the 80 gallon State water or AOsmith version, really happy with it over a standard water heater.

[@DerekRoss1958]

I live in Nova Scotia. I installed a 50 gal Heat Pump Water Heater in 2018 but I didn't remove my old 50 gal Electric Water Heater. Instead I have the cold feed supplying the HPWH and the HPWH feeding the EWH. That way the HPWH does the majority of the heating and the EWH just keeps the water at temperature. Doing that immediately cut my household electricity costs by a third and doubled the amount of hot water available to me. Thus no problems with recovery time. And the basement is well ventilated. So I have no regrets. It's worked very well over the last six years.

[@WhiskyCanuck]

Many years ago as a kid I lived in a house in Quebec that had a solar water heater that preheated water for the electric water heater in a configuration similar to yours. The solar wasn't solar-electric, it instead pumped water through a glass panel on the roof that was directly heated by sunlight to warm it up & return to the tank (like a greenhouse for warming water). It worked pretty well, even in winter & cloudy days. I don't know if they make stuff like that anymore, today a thermopump would probably be the way to go like you did.

[@urokim]

@@WhiskyCanuckYes they are still around, I'm currently running a DX drainback system. When the roof panel temp. hits correct heat temp. it kicks on pump to bring water up to panel for heating. It is a closed loop system, that heats the portable water, within a 80 gallon storage tank via internal coils. From there I connected it to my natural gas water heater of 50 gallons. End result is gas WH hardly ever kicks on (Colorado has many sunny days) . This is with only 2 roof panels.

[@victorspresence1263]

@@WhiskyCanuck "I don't know if they make stuff like that anymore,"...... Uhhhhhhh WHAT? as soon as you make one, you will own it---- outright. So what's the Q? Do you need some KZbin tips on how to make it?

[@DerekRoss1958]

@karlwithak. Did I forget to mention that I get twice as much hot water, I didn't have to pay to take the old water heater out, AND I save more like $30 per month? For an installed cost of about $2,000, giving a low-risk ROI of somewhere around 18%. Tax-free. Sure, it's not the biggest item on my budget but every little counts.

[@davidcox3076]

@@DerekRoss1958 And you already had the 50-gallon tank as a sunk cost. Not the most sophisticated set-up, but why not use what you have and save a few bucks?

[@michaelcook9414]

A few years ago I came across a video of a guy who used a modified water heater tank filled with phase change material that was heated via a solar setup on his roof. The phase change material had a higher thermal capacity than water and served as a thermal battery for heating and hot water production. Even though the system is reliant on the sun..... it could be boosted with a heat pump in times of need. Out off all the heating and hot water systems I've witnessed - this guys was the best, most efficient and cost effective I've ever seen. & I've seen a lot... including a farmer using a pile of manure and a coil of copper pipe to produce hot water.

[@stevenjohnson1409]

My grandfather had a sun room built on the side of his 2 story house, with large boulders in the bottoms as a heat sync, and copper coils in it, going to a second water heater tank that would recirculate the water through the coils and feed the main water heater. He would get free hot water all summer. the sun room was 2 stories and the other end of the house was the stairs, it would circulate air in a loop all through the house.

[@hoffinger]

​@@stevenjohnson1409here in Oakland ca where earthquakes are expected I use a 40 gallon gas water heater not hooked up as a storage tank to feed my water heater. So it is refreshed whenever I use hot water. I added a solar powered computer fan on top pulling air through the exhaust. It does not do much for heater but it help draw ambient air which is warmer than the water coming in.

[@spankeyfish]

There's a company in the UK called Sunamp that makes phase change thermal storage but for some reason their domestic gear isn't compatible with solar thermal.

[@stephendoherty8291]

@@hoffinger Would even a small Solar thermal system not help in pre-heating the cold mains water coming into the gas water heater. CA would seem to have one plentiful daytime supply for sun. Even a small PV panel could be used to provide an electric pre-heat of the water. Here in Europe we have gas water heaters that for extract the waste heat from the gas heater to provide some pre-heating.

Living in Germany with possibly the most expensive electricity and gas prices in the world, I switched to a similar setup. I don't have an hvac system because we have an old house (Bestandsbau) . My water tank has 3 heat sources, a heat pump, an electric heating element and a loop of copper tube hooked on the old gas furnace. The whole setup is in the cellar which was very cold after a couple of hours of operation. So I optimised the air flow. In summer the heat pump uses very warm air delivered by an air duct from the attic. It presses out the cooled air to the outside world through an opening on the wall. In the winter is the attic cold and the cellar is warm du to the residual heat of the furnace. So the duct is disconnected and I heat the water with waste energy. I also have 10kWp solar with some battery buffer to complete the set up. Of course they are connected with a raspberry pi and controlled with some custom python program that I created.

[@k.scottphillips8933]

Lol ... of course.. raspberry 🥧

[@globaltubbydipsy7382]

"In the winter is the attic cold and the cellar is warm du to the residual heat of the furnace. So the duct is disconnected and I heat the water with waste energy" does this mean your gas heater runs all the time? And thus generated residual heat for the heat pump to use? Which gas heater with copper coil do you use? Can you show me some more about this setup?

[@LouJustlou]

I've had a heat pump hot water heater for three years now. It's the same model as yours. I went from traditional electric to the heat pump and have been saving over $30 a month. I've recovered the investment and it still works great. Mine is in an un air-conditioned garage in FL so plenty of hot air to be had. It's also nice that the garage is a few degrees cooler and has much less humidity. Do make sure to clean the filter. I use a leaf blower on slow speed to blow out the coils once a year.

[@UndecidedMF]

Thanks for sharing!

[@matty6212]

I'm in the same boat, in Florida in the garage. I have mine set to heat pump only. Looking at the numbers for efficiency - it was a no brainer for me. In the summer, with a family of 4 using a 50 gallon Rheem I have never run out of hot water. I will say in the winter in heat pump only mode if we don't plan out hot water usage we have ran out of hot water before. But keep in mind, I am not using the heating elements. It's nice to turn them on with my phone when I know we will need it. The added bonus of keeping my 2 car garage a little cooler is nice too. But I have to admit, even with the door closed - in the summer you really don't notice a difference unless you are right in front of the fan. Now during the winter, I do notice the garage is a lot cooler. All in all, I'm 100% happy with it. One big thing I was surprised you didn't mention in your video is the need to have a drain for the water it pulls from the air. That might be a big one for people, something to consider. I love the leaf blower idea - that for sharing, I'll have to try that out!!!

[@LouJustlou]

@matty6212 yeah using air from my compressor was a bit too much the leaf blower was perfect. I notice less humidity more than cooling in summer as well.

[@stuart.whiting]

Same exact experience in Alabama -- same Rheem unit in a garage. Saving money every month & the garage being cooler is a nice bonus. It's easy to address extra demand when we have company using the phone app. I check the filter every month, and I've been surprised to see how clean it stays.

[@ZombieSalesman]

I was going to ask this same question. I live in FL and my water heater is in an un airconditioned garage. Was looking at hybrid to replace it down the line. Is there a big swing in power demand between summer and winter? Do you see an efficiency drop in the winter when it gets cold?

[@chuck1011212]

I had a Rheem heat pump water heater installed in my Florida garage in 2012. Worked great in heat pump only mode year round until the compressor had problems at about the 9 year mark. After the heat pump broke, the unit still worked great with just standard water heater heating elements though until I could get proper support for the device. Long story short, no plumbers want to touch these water heaters for repair. I called Rheem support line and they confirmed that the heat pumps are sealed units with no parts replacements possible. They sent me a brand new unit (which was a nice upgrade too) for free as mine was still under warranty. I was able to get a few bucks at the recycler due to the compressor and other copper parts while turning in my dead unit. Love these things and as I learned, it is nice to have two heating systems built in of one breaks.

[@KMCA779]

oh man, in someplace like Florida, that's practically cheating. Take some of the heat and moisture out of the air in the garage for free while heating your water? I feel like that should become standard for new builds.

[@chuck1011212]

@@KMCA779Totally agree. It is awesome for Florida.

[@karlkoehler341]

9 years seems OK. My gas water heater also needed repairs at that age.

[@8180634]

@@KMCA779 I'm in FL and have an air conditioner in the garage to control humidity and keep all my toys and tools from rusting. I wonder if this water heater would run long enough to actually dehumidify the garage.

[@xxwookey]

Being able to replace the heat-pump part without getting a whole new tank would be good, as the tank should last for decades. I did see a manufacturer taking that route recently. Maybe it was mixergy?

[@WattsMiner]

If you pair your hp water heater in the same room as an inverter/solar system the extra heat from the inverter fans can provide the air heat to supply the room with energy for the water heater to consume. Also keeps the inverter room cool. Thats a symbiotic mechanical relationship

[@anthonyperks2201]

Living in Australia that would seem to be a significant advantage.

[@90MichaelTaylor]

I have a boiler for hot water and radiators and a server rack that makes some heat. I think a heat pump water heater will be nice and comfortable living in my basement.

[@peteaulit]

Yeah…. Nah. Read the specs and charts on a heat pump. That inverter doesn’t generate enough heat for the HP to work efficiently. It’s best to have the HP in a warm/hot environment so the heat exchange is more efficient.

[@COSolar6419]

@@peteaulitWhile the highest efficiency would be achieved in warm space, that doesn’t mean very good efficiency (compared to conventional electric or gas) can’t still be achieved in a cool space.

[@UndecidedMF]

I've been thinking about moving some of my server gear in there. They'd benefit from the cooler space and the heat pump would benefit from the heat they generate.

[@svause]

I have run the Rheem for the past five years here in Oregon. We have piped its inlet near to the ceiling of the 12foot-tall garage so as to scrape the absolutely hottest possible air into the system. The exhaust is also pumped into the garage where it is dry enough (the air...) that it quickly dries all the rain which the vehicles track in - and this is in the winter. In the summer, the effect is even more dramatic. Although I've not been tracking its consumption per se, I can assert that it''s quick to recover in either season.

[@bfair583]

Hi Matt, I live in Australia, and when I looked into heat pumps I was impressed with them, however after the rebate from the government it was still going to cost around 4k. So I installed a timer to heat hot water from my solar panels, 6 cents feed in tariff and soon will put the 4k to additional solar panels. This has worked for us. Keep up the good work!!

[@niv8880]

I'm interested to hear this. I was looking at the solariskit (UK co) for solar water heating rather than use electical/solar but not figured out a low cost storage tank yet.

Same in Europe, (France here) Thermodynamic Water Heater costs 10 time a simple water heater (and is by far a simple construction). Did the same, got a router on my PV array to redirect solar power to the heater than the grid (we are not paid for injected power to the grid here if you self install)

[@randomvideosn0where]

A solar hot water heater did not make sense for you?

[@murdo_mck]

@@randomvideosn0whereDirect solar HW installs(flat panel and evacuated tube) were common in Australia until a few years ago but solar PV is so cheap, feed-in tariffs so low and plumbing so pricey that now it makes sense to have solar PV only and electric HW. The HW cylinder and heat pump are generally installed outdoors.

[@YUDNSAY]

@@randomvideosn0where Saw them in Turkey/Egypt in the 90's, put one on the house in 2007, great value for money, even in winter we get 25c in the UK.

[@Bozemanjustin]

6:56 I got to say these heat pump water heaters are a godsend to people in South Florida You pop one in the garage, and it air conditions your garage so that it's not 140° Plus being in that hot of an environment, you've got tons of heat for the water My buddy was going to air condition his garage to keep his car in good condition, but it turns out all he needed was one of these water heaters Now the garage only feels a few degrees warmer than the house

[@Hybridog]

Same here in TX!

[@imkrazy182]

Central FL here, Garage stays around 80 now, even with the doors facing West.

[@mrbuckmeister]

Amen! We love ours in Jacksonville Florida. Our garage is south facing. It's a huge help and essentially a free year round de-humidifier.

[@llN3M3515ll]

Yeah was going to put In an ac into my garage, this just changed my strategy.

[@will1498]

@@Hybridog do you get a reverse effect in the winter when TX is cold?

[@jonathandevries2828]

Plumber here, i've installed maybe 10 of these...they're pretty cool, downside is the inlet and outlet are on the side of the tank, it makes installation a little tricky to look neat and organized. Also they have an extra step since the condensate needs to be piped to the floor drain....One small downside for end users is that the filter needs to be cleaned once monthly where a tank water heater only needs maintenance once a year.

[@andytraiger4079]

So if the heat pump water heater had a FREON leak, would you be able to diagnose what was causing the problem and repair it? Would you need an HVAC person to come in and use their FREON leak detector or bubble leak detector, braze the leaky component closed, pull a vacuum and then and the proper weighed in amount of FREON charge? Or would you just tell the customer it's busted and they need a new one? Are there even FREON ports on the thing where you could plug in a FREON pressure gauge to see if the compressor and evaporator coils are working? I'm worried that if I buy one and it breaks just a few days after the warranty expires, if anybody could fix it for something tricky like a FREON leak, or does it just end up in the landfill if that happens?

[@jeremyjedynak]

​@andytraiger4079 Just like your refrigerator, it's a factory sealed system. This is the operating model, which is different than the typical HVAC model that you describe above.

[@scottkolaya2110]

@@andytraiger4079 I'm sure it has no ports to hook up gauges up to. It probably can be fixed, but if rebates and incentives are still in effect when it dies, it'll be cheaper to chuck it into the landfill. No just draining the tank and replacing a heater element. But typically coolant leaks don't happen on sealed systems after the warranty expires. More likely the compressor dies.

[@jonathandevries2828]

@@andytraiger4079 you got a point there...if that top part busted i would have no idea what to do...but they seem pretty robust, i haven't gotten any follow up calls on any ive previously installed; the first one was probably like 2017. they do have the electric coils that will turn on like a standard WH if the heat pump is not able to warm the water quickly enough, so i guess if the heat pump part breaks your just left with a standard WH. One big downfall is that it has a computer built into it...and when that inevitably breaks i bet its expensive to replace. Just curious why do you capitalize FREON? is it an acronym and if it is, what does it stand for?

[@andytraiger4079]

@@jonathandevries2828 Nah, Freon is a name brand of refrigerant, it shouldn't be capitalized. I was just trying to emphasize that I was concerned about Freon pressure (or more correctly, refrigerant pressure) and not water pressure. I have no idea what type of refrigerant these things use. It's probably NOT Freon since Freon is being phased out. If I had to guess it would be R134a like is used in refrigerators and cars. I find when talking to people about HVAC stuff, it's more useful to refer to the refrigerant in the system as Freon, even if it's something else. Because most people know what Freon is, but they may have never heard the word "refrigerant" before. I'm about to need a new water heater and I've been thinking about the heat pump water heater; but it gets me a little concerned that it might not be worth the investment if the heat pumps on those things tend to fail after a couple of years.

[@JustinDavidow]

For the total water heater results; you also need to include the make-up heat in the home; the heat pump's CoP is driven by the heat generated in the home; so you need to additionally measure the furnace usage increase over the same period. In the case of a ground-source-heat-pump; the additional cost will be in electricity costs (extra pump / compressor / fan time)

[@davidh2186]

This is my question. In colder climates, in the winter that heat is coming from somewhere. And if you heat with gas, you have a gas water heater with extra steps for however many months of the year you run the heat. In summer, maybe that evens out with less ac usage?

[@extragoode]

​@@davidh2186 couldn't you just flip it to resistive heating mode during the winter? Our water heater is in the basement and a kid left the walkout door open one day when it was about -5c outside. By the time I found it the basement was freezing, but the rest of the house was fine, I can't imagine a hpwp chilling our basement more than that.

[@dustinbrueggemann1875]

@@davidh2186 You still benefit from the COP of the heat pump watt for watt. That's wattage *scavenged* from the HVAC that otherwise would've ultimately radiated away. It's sort of like a thermal drip pan, hanging on longer to the heat you've already paid for.

[@NerdSnipingBatman]

This is a misconception about heat pumps. Yes the heat pump doesn't care about where the heat is coming from, but it doesn't need to be in a "warm" room to work. I have mini-spit AC that are also heat pumps in winter. It gladly takes heat from the outside and pumps it inside. Outside it's 34 degrees out, while a nice 75 degrees inside. It concentrates heat. Heat is just thermal energy, even 34 degrees has plenty of thermal energy to concentrate. For this reason though, yes you don't want to put your heat pumps in a climate controlled room.

[@prjndigo]

If you move the heat-pump into the attic and scavenge the lost heat from the home... it's a massive win electrically.

[@traepalmer]

I'm in SoCal and switched to heat pumps for water and space heating last year, and so far, I'm impressed. My water heater is in the garage, which is enclosed but with vents to the outdoors, so for most of the year, it has the added benefit of keeping the garage cooler. I leave it on heat-pump-only during warmer weather and switch to hybrid during cooler weather.

[@chrisd4432]

I realize this may sound a little crazy but my HPWH is ductable and I have it in an unconditioned storage room that is connected to the house (shares a wall with my kitchen). So behind my fridge I ran duct work to draw hot air from behind the fridge high up and then the exhaust it into an open cabinet above the fridge. Finished with a round central air vent during the summer to give some free AC. In the winter I swap the ducts to pool heat from that same open cabinet and exhausted into the storage room. Since it is around 50°, it's enough to keep pipes from freezing. I cut a rectangular central air register down near the floor that I open in winter to allow the room to depressurize and gradually release the cold air into the kitchen rather than blowing it directly on you.. in the summer I close at Central Air vent and seal it with a little HVAC foil tape.

[@criticaltemperature3343]

As an hvac professional i "converted" an old dehumidifier into a water heater. I used it for a couple months while replacing my leaking boiler with "tankless coil" to a new boiler with a domestic tank as a zone off the boiler. Being it was DIY its recovery was slow but worked well.

[@ronriley3752]

You could also have used an appropriately sized window AC, getting much faster recovery.

[@criticaltemperature3343]

@ronriley3752 True. But the AC unit is compact, meaning no extra space inside the cover. The dehumidifier, on the other hand, had plenty of room after removing the bucket. I was draining condensate to a floor drain anyway, so it sat on its casters and appeared nearly as designed, with the exception of a couple washing machine hoses attached to it.

[@BillyBobDingledorf]

You'd make a great neighbor.

[@hoffinger]

They use mixing valves now. The water heater is run hot and mixed with cold at the outlet. Makes for more hot water available.

[@ronriley3752]

@@hoffinger They are called pressure balanced, they work great with a conventional tank water heater, they do not work well with tankless hot water heaters.

[@spyrule]

I have the same model installed this past summer. I live up in Canada. I put mine in the same room as my ventless heat pump clothes dryer, which actually gives off warm air. So my tank takes advantage of that heat source. I also decided to vent my output only, but I put a T on the vent. So in the summer, I dump the cold air back into my basement, and in the winter, it vents outside (using the old dryer vent location). This allows for a very balanced setup. There is only 3 people in my house, so I leave mine on heat-pump only mode, and its saved me almost $50/month compared to my old gas hot water tank. Sadly, I cant do a direct comparison, as I also switched from a gas furnace to a cold-climate heat pump at the same time, so my whole bill is entirely different. Getting PV installed this summer, cant wait to drop my bills to a few $/year.

[@CCRoselle]

LINT!!! plus NO FREE LUNCH! The heat is coming from inside your envelope.

[@SubStationSparky]

I do the EXACT SAME THING!!!

[@pierreroy8124]

Hm you vent the HP WH outside in the winter?? Im in Ontario, and have the same unit. But what you’re missing about what you described is that you’re doing yourself a disservice. You’re putting your house under negative pressure. You’re venting air from the water heater that’s maybe 16 degrees C, and in exchange, the air is balancing itself out with outside air coming in thru cracks, around the windows etc, at -5 or whatever the outdoor temp is. You can just exhaust air without expecting it to come back in. Lmk if I misunderstood, or if this this makes sense to you

[@leolandi3852]

@@CCRoselle that's not how that works but okay! Literally a free lunch

[@leolandi3852]

@@pierreroy8124 Don't see the issue with that, it's a mild negative pressure that actually probably improves the air quality of the home. Sure it's slightly less efficient, but you get fresh air that gets heated easily by the HVAC system

[@0ctopusRex]

I think the installation costs are worth keeping in mind. It will vary widely based on location and circumstance, of course, but here in MN I was recently quoted $6,500 for installation of a heat pump (not including the unit's price). That quote included things like: - capping the natural gas line - running upgraded electric to the water heater location - installing up-to-code condensate management / drainage These are costs that you will not incur if you replace like with like at least when your current heater is NG. And when water heating costs are reletively little in the first place, it can be a disuading price tag. For myself, at least, its hard to think I cant better spend that money making improvements elsewhere.

[@xenidus]

I'm in MN, and that is an INSANE quote. They likely didn't need the work or were not knowledgeable with the process so they wanted to be rewarded for having to do new things... Also don't a bunch of these heat pumps run on 120v power? No need for electrical upgrade if you pick correctly.

[@ab-tf5fl]

@@xenidus Based on my experience replacing my home heating furnace with a heat pump, that quote seems extremely high.

[@SubStationSparky]

Installing a heat pump water is so easy its easily done bu the home owner if you are "AT ALL" handy

[@MarkAbele]

Thanks for an awesome video on one of my favorite pieces of tech! I have the same model as well as solar. Two questions: 1. Even though Rheem says "Energy Saver" is more efficient than "Heat Pump Only" do you think that can be true, or might they be trying to save themselves some heat pump warranty money? 2. Do you set the schedule of the water heater to use solar during the day to act as a thermal battery? I dont remember you discussing that in the video. Thanks again!

[@UndecidedMF]

Thanks so much! On your first question it’s a little counterintuitive. Based on what I understand in their documentation, it’s more efficient to have a higher burst of energy usage during a big heat cycle (both resistive and heat pump heating at once) vs. a slower, longer heat pump only run. It’s primarily heat pump when maintaining heat, but tag teaming for heating up a large quantity of new, cold water. It shortens the heating time and reduces the overall energy needs. On the second question, I haven’t looked into that yet, but need to dig into that more. 👍

[@cjgetreal]

It seems one should definitely vent the HW heat pump if you live with a heating season like much of the country. If not your having to "make up" for the heat that is going into your water heater with your house heating system. I don't see how that can be efficient. Of course it's beneficial during the cooling season. I have an air to water heat pump that heats the house via radiant floor heating as well as domestic hot water (DHW) via a heat exchanger tank. System cycles between the two functions with DHW being primary. Similar to your preheat tank I'm also preheating with a solar collector. After some startup issues the system is very efficient - particularly here with our 10c /KWHr power. System easily handles all the DHW needs as well as house load. Major challenge is getting the programming set for handling defrost cycles for the humid conditions in this area around freezing.

[@FrancescoCarucci]

Thanks for the video. I have the exact same unit (just at 65g instead of 50g). I'm not using the app schedule and now get ready to geek out :) I'm using home assistant to drive the schedule, with a bunch of automations: 1) I have a very short schedule, basically 6am to 10am to get water ready for the morning shower 2) The rest of the time the unit is forced off 3) When nobody is at home, water heater is off 4) When I start my work out on Pelton, water heater comes on to get me ready for the shower 5) When water tank is less than 33% full, water heater comes on to get some water in just in case 6) When I detect humidity and presence in the bathrooms (got sensors there), water heater comes on just to make sure the shower can be complete, if water is less than 50% it goes into high demand, when the bathroom is vacated, it goes back to disabled 7) I keep it at 110F on weekdays and 130F+ on sundays to avoid bacteria 8) When I run the dishwasher or the washing machine, water heater comes on to help with heating water This is all automatic, I'm lazy... Looking at your numbers, you use up 3-4kWh a day. I'm sitting at 1.5/2kWh per day for a family of 4. If you are ready to put in some little programming and sprinkle around few sensors (as I'm sure you are :p), you can extract some awesome savings from this bad boy. I'm sure you can get at least a 30% down from your numbers. I also have my unit in the garage, in California, so I'm fully ready for summer!

[@Krydolph]

Do your dishwasher/washing machine use hot water? Because I am pretty sure it is most common for them use cold, and heat it up in the machine. If that is the case, turning it on for that makes little sense. I know one that had a whole wash ruined because something malfunctioned in his waterlines, and hot water leaked into the cold water, and the washing machine just heated it like it was cold water (why it doesn't have a temperature feeler I don't understand) - at any rate, because of that, it was boiled.

[@einarmikkelsenPNW]

​@@KrydolphMost European brands are recommending to connect the dishwasher to hot water, as the heater in a dishwasher is not as efficient as a heat pump water heater (the most common type).

[@SuperS05]

110°f is to cool for safety. Most bacteria will or nearly stop reproducing at around 110°f but many won't actually die. At 115°f you'll be killing bacteria on net but it is very slow. It is why we codes in some places prevent storage below 130°f A water flow switch is all you needed to turn it on while using water. You didn't need all of the extra stuff. They are very cheap, and far more reliable than humidity sensors. I have no idea what you mean when you indicate that the tank is low by a percentage? Do you mean in temperature or actual water? It should never be on without being full of water.

[@hoffinger]

​@@Krydolphusing the HPWH to heat water for washing is more efficient. The machines use heating coils. I use solar electric for heating dishwasher water.

[@Krydolph]

@@hoffinger ofc it does. But the machine needs to be able to handle it. I didn't know some could

[@Wheel_Horse]

There's actually a 'hidden' cost to heat pump water heaters. The energy to heat the water is taken from the building if it's installed indoors. This means that the home's central heating system has to work a little bit harder. In effect, your heating system is producing the heat that is pumped into the water, so that extra hidden cost needs to be factored into the equation. Basically speaking, the heat pump water heater can be considered as an added 'heat loss' in the home. In the summer time it is helping the homes A/C system, so it may be a 'wash' to some extent over the long term.

[@magnawavezone]

This really is a huge “but” that wasn’t covered properly. Basically if the heater is inside your building envelope, you aren’t heating with the heat pump, you are heating water with your furnace + the heat pump overhead in the winter. I can’t see in any universe how this will ever work out as a savings in those common climates and situations. Sure in new construction with the water heater suitably placed (or people in the south with water heaters in garages) this can be a big win. But I strongly suspect lots of people will mis fire on this technology and be quite disappointed. Thermodynamics doesn’t lie.

[@Rickmakes]

If you heat your home with natural gas, your heat pump water heater essentially becomes a natural gas heater. I'd like to see someone run the numbers on that.

[@hs0003]

Some heat pumps have an external unit, where they can steal heat from the outside air, though the COP for for water hot enough to kill legionella, when it's well below freezing outside is closer to around 2, instead of 3-4. Other heatpump units are set up to extract waste heat from ventilation exhaust, to heat water, so that the energy you've spent to heat the house, gets to pull double duty. In this heat pumps situation, it extracts the already heated air from the house, which yes, cools the house, however, the actual heat loss only happens when the heated water leaves the house through the waste water pipes, so any cooling that happens in between is released back into the house as uncontrolled heat. Source: I'm an energy engineer.

[@albex8484]

You can put a tube to the outside, so you pull air from outside AND put the colder air back outside. This is in my climate best in the winter. It still has a cop of 2.9, but i dont lose heat from inside.

[@razvanlex]

@@hs0003 They can use a sanitary tank maybe? I know you can use these with air to water heat pumps.

[@Th3Su8]

I have no data to support my installation. I bought the Richmond branded version of your Rheem, which is the same as Ruud. I installed it last March and am super happy that I did, I replaced a 23 year old gas water heater. I wanted to replace the old water heater because of its age and wanting to be proactive and not reactive, I didn't want to go down to a flooded basement. I could have just got a gas water heater for around $400 at the time and save myself $1000. I do hear the water heater running sometimes, probably because my basement is unfinished and my first floor is just solid wood flooring, but I do not really consider it a nuisance because it isn't that loud. I have no issues with running out of hot water or the heater not being able to keep up with demand, I also left it in the factory default of "energy saver" mode.

[@BrianMcKenzie-ez4nf]

I have had a heat pump water heater for a couple years now. My old electric water heater started leaking and when I was looking for a new one I came across the heat pump one. My electric bill is $20 a month cheaper and has paid for itself already. Thanks Brian

[@PatrickKQ4HBD]

What state do you live in?

[@TheTalonts]

I installed my GE heat pump HWH 10-15 years or so ago, by the time I was done with rebates my OOP was less than $300 and that included all my new fittings/piping, HWH pan, and an extended 10 year warranty (never needed it, but it was "new technology" back then). The builder install of the old HWH looked like they just grabbed a scrap pipe bucket and used it all up. I ended up with over TEN fewer 90 degree bends in the piping! It doesn't bother me much in winter, but the added cooling in summer is nice. The drying of the air is a DEFINITE benefit for humid FL. We have ours in our washroom, which is only about 8 feet cubed, so ~512 cu ft, but the door to that room is ALWAYS open to the rest of the house.

[@angst987]

I've had a GE Geospring hybrid water heater for over 10 years. It's great. It's located in the garage so we don't have to worry about noise from the heat pump, and because we're in Houston, there's ample warm to downright HOT air in the garage to draw energy from. I run it in hybrid mode where the heat pump is drawing less than 2 amperes on its own, but the heating elements do run some to compensate. Also, it was $1000 at the time minus tax rebates, and I installed it myself which was very easy to do, so the up front cost was hardly more than a standard electric one, and the cost savings over time have made it worth it.

[@jamesfish5630]

I did same and also little over 10 yr's ago. Started seeing lower electric bills first month of use.

[@jepito29]

I have the same Rheem. It’s in a 1200sqft unconditioned basement and works great. Can’t hear it running in the house. The floor between the basement and house is insulated. At $0.34 kWh it paid for itself it 3 years. Only issue I had was a failed evap temp sensor. Rheem sent me a new one for free and I swapped it myself. Took about an hour. The other advantage is the low amp draw. Only around 2-3 amp. (Heat pump mode)

[@daveball3081]

We had a heat pump water heater for about three months. We swapped it out for an on-demand, propane water heater. There were several reasons: 1. The water heater is in a utility room that shares air with the rest of the house. The utility room was always cold and spilling cold air into the rest of the house. We live in a cold region. We were having to overcome the cold outside *and* the cold from the utility room. I looked into vent kits - simple plastic shrouds from Rheem were over $135 - just for a plastic exhaust shroud. Plus, I'd need to bore a hole through the exterior wall of the house. 2. As the water heater located in an inside space (the utility room) we heard the fan on the water heater - and ours was noisy. We had it reviewed by the installer who told us, "They all sound like that." 3. We are just two people - we now only heat water when we need it. If we live somewhere warm and the water heater was in the garage, it would be a big, "Yes!" In our situation, the on-demand propane unit makes more sense.

[@xFuaZe]

Those are valid point for this specific system, but here in the Netherlands we actually use outside sources of even underground sources for both heating water and homes. Those units may overcome the issues described, but agreed, if your natural gas usage is very low, it may not be worth the effort.

[@hoffinger]

​@@xFuaZehis propane heater is a Co2 factory. Water takes a lot of heat (BTUs) propane is worse than natural gas. It has to be transported. People tend to take longer showers with unlimited hot water than with a tank where you know it can run out. Heating water uses as much fuel as driving 6kkm a year.

[@kgsails7102]

@@hoffinger Generating electricity also generates CO2. In the US, 1 lb of CO2 is emitted for every kWh of electricity generated. It's pretty much the same for every country in the world where natural gas is the predominant source of electricity generation. If you look at Matt's chart where he compares his electricity use with the natural gas use the prior year, you see he's using 120 kWh vs 12-16 therms. One therm of natural gas emits 12.1 lbs of CO2 so you have 120 lbs of CO2 from the electricity and 144-192 lbs over the months of October to January. So while he's reduced his CO2 footprint, it's definitely not zero. Keep in mind that his old system was a tank-style non-condensing water heater which is the least efficient gas water heater (EF 0.6 to 0.7). Compare this with a condensing water heater which has an energy factor of 0.92 and the emissions are the same. Even Matt admits that this system is more efficient because he's added heat recovery from his air conditioning system so that adds cost to the installation and if it wasn't there, the electricity use would be higher as you can see from the jump in his chart. The bottom line is that (not surprisingly since there are laws of physics) the amount of energy to heat the same amount of water is the same whether you use a heat pump or a gas water heater. And since both electricity generation and burning natural gas emit CO2, you'll have the same amount of CO2 to heat the same amount of water. And before you complain that propane generates more CO2 emissions compared to natural gas, check the facts. For the same amount of energy, propane and natural gas emit practically the same amount of CO2 (one gallon of propane emits 12.6 lbs of CO2 vs 11.1 lbs for the same energy of natural gas). Not surprising since natural gas is C2H4 and propane is C3H8. And since the power grid is becoming ever more fragile due to neglect by the power companies, I'll take my natural gas water heater over a heat pump every time.

[@Furyswipes]

​@@hoffinger Who cares? Co2 is plant food. Co2 is .0429% of the atmosphere. These trace amounts of Co2 do NOT "trap" any significant heat in the atmosphere--that's right. None. During the last ice age, Co2 was 4x higher than today. You can look that up. You have been lied to. Co2 is not a pollutant. It is a gas of life.

[@YUDNSAY]

@@hoffinger Co2, trees love it.

[@Spiralem]

Based on the video, it seems like the best value for the Heat Pump system is during Summer where the surrounding is hot and the cool air that comes out of the system is just a bonus.

[@mattdnz]

One alternative to combat the space issue is to have a split system approach. We have a BDT Hydrobox which is connected to a regular electric hot water cylinder. The Heatpump system is inside our home, and the external condensor is outside. Then the heatpump hydrobox then pumps hot water into the cylinder

[@FzudemB]

We have a heat pump water heater in our (very old and wet) cellar and have noticed a significant decrease in humidity since it produces over 1 liter of condensate per day. One thing I noticed in your setup are the unisolated pipes, that makes a huge difference in efficiency and time until warm water is at the faucet

[@ronriley3752]

Distilled water, filter & save it.

[@playlist5455]

​@ronriley3752 not a chance. They are open to the air and will grow. Your AC drain lines need to be cleaned regularly or they will clog with 'slime'

[@PatrickKQ4HBD]

​@@ronriley3752🤢😝

[@N-hunter]

I also live in Massachusetts and have had a heat pump water heater for 12+ years. A lot of people are commenting that these units should be installed outside of the building envelope, but you can’t practically do that in MA (or any northern climate), because the pipes would freeze. If you live in a warmer climate zone, it absolutely makes sense to put it in a garage or somewhere similar, but not here in MA. Now let’s address those comments about increasing the home heating load: virtually all homes in MA have a full basement. Because the basement is underground, it tends to stay at around 50 degree (F) all year round. My basement, like many, is insulated from the main living floor. This means that most of the heat for my hot water isn’t coming from our pellet stove, it’s coming from the ground. It’s basically indirect geothermal heating. To add to that, the heat pump doesn’t seem to lower the temperature in the basement by too much, maybe a few degrees max.

[@cameronmacdonald6525]

You don't actually run water through the pipes of the heat pump. It's just gas exactly like an air conditioner. The water stays inside, and the hot gas in the pipes heat your water. The water will never be on the outside of your house.

[@dustinbrueggemann1875]

@@cameronmacdonald6525 That's only if your unit has a separate condenser. The Rheem from the video has the entire heat pump system attached directly to the water tank, so you'd have to run the water lines to the unit wherever it was, which would mean running water lines to a non-insulated space.

[@ranger178]

in the south it would make sense having it inside home to help remove heat and humidity from house. people who had original water heater in garage was probably to put it in a warm space to save on air conditioning and heat water faster but if switching to a heat pump unit it would be better in the living space. I have never seen anyone have basement insulated from rest of house in Pennsylvania since usually heating system is in basement and heats it up to room temp anyway.

[@scottkolaya2110]

What temperature is your basement in with winter?

[@MonkeyJedi99]

@@scottkolaya2110 Every basement I've had in Massachusetts are pretty much within a handful of degrees (F) year-round. Variability can occur if you have badly leaking casement windows.

[@commonsense5105]

There are multiple issues related to this energy analysis. As some have pointed out, the biggest issue is this heat pump water heater "steals" heat from the house to provide the efficiency gained over electric resistance water heaters. This works very well in homes that are in warmer climates, but not so well, especially in the winter, in colder climates. Also, natural gas prices have declined in the last 2 years because of the issues associated with war, so the economics associated with natural gas have become much more favorable in recent months. The other issue associated with natural gas, is the way many natural gas rates are structured. Many of the rates have a fairly hefty service charge, with a transportation and commodity charge added for actual consumption. What does this mean? The actual cost per therm of natural gas is even lower than the average, whether using more or less. That means if you use natural gas for anything else in the house, the incremental expense for the additional fuel consumed can be actually quite a bit less, than simply dividing the cost by the number of therms used. There are several other aspects not considered in this analysis, but too lengthy to go into detail here, (something you learn/exposed to after almost 4 decades in the energy industry). Anyway, the point I'm attempting to make, whether this heat pump is appropriate for you, there are many other things to consider. As a general rule, if you live in a warm climate, this water heater may be appropriate for you, especially if you have a smaller family and already need to replace your water heater or have a new build. If you live in northern climate and/or have a larger family, this water heater application needs to be analyzed in more detail than presented here, and preferably by someone not selling the water heater, but buy someone who will independently make a complete energy analysis.

[@arthurrichardson3439]

Common sense is becoming extremely rare these days with little hope of a turnaround on the radar. Having read all the comments so far, this is the most thoughtful and comprehensive discussion on a topic with many variables that I have seen. As the ultimate useful life of most "durable" products has decreased substantially in recent years, I plan to do further research on whether a stainless steel or carbon fiber tank is an option as well as a reasonable life expectancy on the sealed refrigeration system.

[@eesger]

I live in the Netherlands. I have developed a setup with - a 800 liter water tank - 90 heat pipes - an electric boiler - a wood stove - a self engineered heat exchanger (on that wood stove) With this we use 0 electricity (and wood) for our family for hot water from about april to october. In winter the heatpipes do verry little, so the hot water gets done by electric boiler (still pre heated, which even in winter saves about 10 to 20%!) and heating our house is done by the wood stove (with the heat exchanger, to transport the warmth to all the parts in the house and pre heat the water for the electric boiler. This whole setup has been running for several years now.. and I’m still tweaking a bit, but it works like a charm! I can’t post an image here, but I’ve created a diagram.. if you would like to see, drop me a line

[@robertmoore1215]

I prefer the old school radiators to HVAC as you don't have to deal with blowers and dust as much. It's a gentler heat that doesn't desiccate everything in the house. Since it's wood/ electric powered based on the season, I imagine you'd realize greater efficiencies if you went with a pellet stove presuming the price is usually more stable than even cord wood delivered at the wrong time of year. With the right sized hopper you can keep heat going unsupervised.

[@gumjuac]

I installed a Rheem heat pump water heater two months ago. My biggest challenge was finding an installer who would replace my gas water heater and move the new tank to a different room with adequate volume. Plumbers in my area would not touch the product, and the big box stores did not have installers with the licenses necessary to tie in to existing pipes. Water heater installers hold limited licenses. In frustration, I had the Orange Big Box drop ship the new water heater to my garage. Installation, including running a 240v branch circuit, a 120v receptical for the condensate pump, and tapping existing hot and cold water lines took about four hours. Total cost for the water heater and all of the piece parts was under $1,000 after rebates. My experience, so far, has been positive. It looks like we will use about 800kwh per year, which is within the surplus power our solar array generates each year.... FREE HOT WATER!

[@PatrickKQ4HBD]

What state?

[@CCRoselle]

@@PatrickKQ4HBD You're not thinking of reporting him to the plumbing inspectors, are you now?

[@hoffinger]

The IRA allows $2000 rebate.

[@JPs-q1o]

This is brilliant! Thank you for the video, sir. It's like a free AC unit with the purchase of a water heater.

[@danielcarroll3358]

I added a 65 gallon Rheem water heater when my house was renovated - and I mean REALLY renovated. Back to the studs. Fully insulated. All electric. Solar too. This is in the San Francisco Bay Area with a very moderate climate. The water heater is in a small basement room, which will eventually have batteries for the solar. It is vented to the crawl space on one side and a small 20 W blower vents out of the house from the other side. The room is always cool and dry. I hadn't figured on the savings from insulating everything and as a result I used 2,500 kW-hr less than I produced last year. I got a check for $249, the wholesale price of my excess, a pleasant surprise. We have time of use rates, so the water temperature is lowered 5 degrees between 3 and 9 pm. Keeps the water heater from running. The supplied water rarely drops more than a degree or two.

[@danielcarroll3358]

@@karlwithak.Says the gentleman who failed high school physics.

[@derrickfoster644]

@karlwithak care to go over the reasoning for your statement that insulation doesn't help maintain a homes temperature? Because the point of insulation is to stop heat from either exiting or entering a controlled system (home). The more insulation (higher R value) the less heat migrates across their fore maintaining the temperature. TLDR: more insulation means less heat transfer = less additional heat (removal or addition) to maintain temperature.

[@derrickfoster644]

@@karlwithak. the 80s? when single pane windows were the norm, is the best you can do? Assuming what your clame is true, as you gave me no way to check if what you are claiming is true. Really, a study from MIT in the 80s, if you are going to attempt to provide a source, at least give the name of the study, one of the authors' names, or even atleast the year. Why do we bother with insulation? Is it BIG INSULATION that is suppressing this information?

[@danielcarroll3358]

@@karlwithak.Interesting if, as @derrickfoster644 pointed out, more than a bit dated. So let us add a bit more information. This is a 1903 house that was build with wood shingles over boards on the outer walls and lath and plaster on the inside. No insulation. The 2x4's measure 2 x 4-1/4 inches, which allows for more than the usual insulation. Neither OSB nor sheetrock had been invented yet when the house was built. The rebuilding added foam in place insulation everywhere except between the ground floor and the crawl space, which is batts. The stand up attic is now conditioned space. As someone who lived in the house for years before the update, I can assure you that life is much more comfortable... and cheaper, even with four added rooms.

[@imurrx]

I used a heat pump water heater in my condo in southern MA due to not being able to vent a natural gas tank. The heat pump tank worked well except with a family of 4, the 4th person would end up getting a cold shower. It was not really an issue since we rarely would do 4 back to back showers. I had to vent the doors leading into the utility room for the heat pump tank to get the air flow needed. It did shave a lot in cost versus the electricity bill ($75/month). The cost to recover to install was about 10 months. The brand was AO Smith. It failed twice in 6 years however. One was a coolant leak and the control board failed. Covered under warranty.

[@blackturtleshow]

I have a glycol solar collector set up to heat my water. It works reasonably well about 350 days a year, but when it's cloudy during winter (shorter days) there are times when I don't get any hot water. On those days I heat pots of water on my wood stove for bathing purposes. You probably guessed that I'm fully off-grid and have no gas for the house.

[@EtienneDoyonLessard]

Correct me if I'm wrong but if you install something like that in a house that is heated by the electric grid, you would end up cooling the house that would then be heated by electricity again. So the use case and efficiency of the water heater is very dependant on the heating system of the house in a warmer climate.

[@boblow2186]

Like your system. Can I ask is there a reason why your piping system in the room are not insulated. Not worth it or just not necessary. Bob.

[@Agamerrobertjr]

Definitely helps a lot. Did it for ours after installing our water heater and found that between my shower and the next showerer there wasn’t wasted hot water between us to heat up.

[@bkellam]

Great video! I've performed a full M&V study on HPWH installs for a local utility. The recovery time on the heat pump is absolutely longer, unless you you rely on the electric resistance heating element (which negates a lot of the benefits). The biggest factor on performance/payback is user behavior. Homeowners who took back-to-back showers would run through their stored hot water and rely on the heating element. People who used less hot water, spread out their usage, or set the HPWH to work in heat pump only mode saw huge savings. The desuperheater is really neat! I haven't seen that anywhere else yet.

[@2007dalin]

there is a ton of things your not meantioning here.. the maintenance on a hp water heater is astronomically higher then a standard electric or gas.. also if your water is poor quality and you have to replace the hp water heater in 3 years all those rebates are not available the second time around.. so sure initially your first purchase may be similar but it will most definitly never pay for itself and most likely will cost you 5 times more in its lifespan.. never mind that in 5 years it will need a compressor or fan that will cost more then its worth.. its just another appliance that will end up in the land fill along with fridges and all the other stuff.. sure it seems great on paper but they are too expensive and require too many moving parts to make sense

[@ricknelson947]

For 16 months, I have the same model installed in my home in North Florida on Eco mode set to 120 degrees. It’s located in my 2 car garage. Family of 3 and use on average 2KWh per day. I like that it uses the residual heat from our cars (1 gas and 1 electric). I do have to keep an eye on dust collecting on the coils ( it is a garage after all), but it has not been an issue thus far. It’s a winner for me, but I have great conditions for it and the ability to clean it myself if needed.

[@The-Fat-Kid]

I got an A.O.Smith a couple of years ago. It payed for itself in about a year and a half. You may want to cut a small hole in your hot air supply or add a short section of finned tube if you have hydronic to add a little heat to your little room. Heat pumps work more efficiently at warmer temperatures. You may also want to insulate your pipes. The engineers made a big deal about pipe insulation on the geothermal project I worked on. A big advantage of a hybrid over the more popular on demand water heaters is that they don’t have to be descaled all the time which gets expensive if you have a plumber do it. Cleaning the filter takes 5 minutes in the kitchen sink and draining some water out of the bottom of the tank is a do it yourself maintenance once a year. Descaling is very involved.

[@kgsails7102]

Descaling, if done every year, takes about 20 minutes. You isolate the water heater, hook up a small circulating pump, run chemicals through the water heater for 15 minutes, drain and refill. A kit cost about $150 on Amazon. Here in California, electricity costs anywhere from $0.40 to $0.80 per kWh while natural gas is around $2 per therm. Natural gas is far and away less cost compared to even a very efficient heat pump system.

[@johnwhite2576]

@@kgsails7102it all depends nat gas has always been cheap esp,in socal, electricity is getting expensive . In Maryland electricity is below national average, and gas costs above national average. Lost in all this discussion are two points- will nat gas prices rise more than electricity jntot he future > or vice versa? Hard to say, but in tree hugging states states will step in and encourage e;ctrical/heat pump usage, even if they have to raise use taxes. Also there is an inevitably declining user base to spread the costs of maintaining nat gas infrastructure whcih is more xpensieb to maintain long run than electricity. And of course if you are in good solar sitiaion location, electric heat pumps make evn more sense

[@MegaLokopo]

We need to quit having all these incentives, the only thing they do is increase prices. If a company sees that you will get $1000 off, they simply raise the price by $1000. If we didn't have an incentive, they would have to make their prices competitive, and then we wouldn't have tax payer money going to these large companies for no reason.

[@jond661]

I agree there's so much government bloat

[@remosewa]

Are you assuming that companies are fixing their prices? What you're saying would only work if everyone had the same price. As soon as one company lowered their prices due to incentives, everyone else would follow suit. The government is trying to reduce electricity usage, the same way they reduce electric rates at night to promote usage in the off hours, they're trying to give you an incentive to use less electricity to save money on the grid.

[@drwzer]

Your comment doesn’t make much sense if we assume the hvac market is a competitive market. If one company did what you’re suggesting then they would lose market share if other companies didn’t follow suit. And there is a high probability they wouldn’t follow suit as there goal would be to increase market share.

[@MegaLokopo]

@@remosewa they dont have to fix prices to all decide independantly to do something.

[@MegaLokopo]

@@drwzer they want to make money short term for share holders, once one does it and they dont lose customers, they all do it. Check price history.

[@erikschlottbohm]

As someone who works in Germany in Energy consultation, heat pumps are amazing in their nice. Eventhough here in Germany it makes more sense to get a heatpump due to higher Energy prices and subsidies by the government and cities which sometimes cover over 50% of the total cost associated with the installation. However we oftentimes use one unit to heat the home and the water. Many of the units can also cool the home in the summer which saves a lot of money for an ac, given the rise of popularity due to our now much hotter summers.

[@daddygoat]

It is amazing that you published this. I have a brand new home in Florida and I had a Stiebel Eltron Tankless Heater - Tempra 36 Plus electric installed. It has (3) 50 amp breakers. Now the electric company says I need a new transformer... I am looking at this exact Heat Pump water heater as a replacement. The Stiebel Eltron is supposed to be super efficient, but I am afraid I will never know. On the plus side, installing the Heat Pump water heater in my garage will keep the garage cool as it will be a hang-out area with a pool table.

[@philluthman5960]

I JUST bought the EXACT same brand and model water heater as yours last week! So excited for your video. I read everything I could in manuals/forums and then called Rheem directly to ask about what exactly Energy Saver mode does. They couldn’t tell me, but simply read back to me all the talking points. There is nothing smart about this unit in terms of analyzing your usage and adjusting to it. Energy Saver isn’t the most efficient at all, rather, I think it is a mode to curb complaints because the recovery is better when using the heating element in the mix. Heat Pump mode is by far the best for energy use. I’ve had a lot of fun playing with the schedule, setting it to mode “off” for long periods of the day. The hot water in it while off still remains crazy hot. Nighttime showers for my kids I set on high demand occasionally. Overall Heat Pump mode is 50% less energy than Energy Saver. Also, don’t set your unit to Off mode in the app because that disables it and you have to turn it back on from the unit (however scheduling “off mode” via the schedule works great 🙃). App and programming needs some work. I’m 100% on team “heat pump all the things”. So glad you did this video! Thank you!!

[@voigtscott]

We have a heat pump water heater in our garage. After we park our cars, the heat pump basically takes the residual heat from the vehicle’s brakes & engine and turns it into hot water. Love it! Oh and it helps that we live in southern CA.

[@hoffinger]

Don't have any residual heat. I drive electric. Don't use the brakes.

[@voigtscott]

Maybe one day I can afford an electric car...Meanwhile, I'm just reducing the stress on the local power grid with my gas guzzling residual heat producers!

[@StumpyVandal]

There’s a ton of heat created when the car is charging though.

[@Dleihs]

That is the same exact model of hot water heater I bought. With the instant rebate from my local PUD the cost was still higher than an electric water heater. I was able to install myself and upgrade the water lines while I was at it. The cost savings is amazing. The extra cost will be paid for in 3 years with the lower energy cost. Plus heat pump water heaters last much longer and have less maintenance demand than an electric or gas. Mine is in the garage so noise isn't an issue. It is less efficient in the winter due to how cold the garage gets but it does cool during the summer and even with the lowered efficiency during the winter it still has no problem keeping up for our house.

[@dwarftoad]

I have similar utility rates as you, but I switched to hybrid electric hot water with heat pump to replace hot water coming from my oil burner. Hearing my oil burner kick on in the middle of summer really started to drive me crazy. Between that, replacing the oil burner with a much more efficient one, using wood heat sometimes (not every day) and insulating my 200 year old house I've reduced my oil consumption by at least half, maybe more like 2/3. I have a 50 gallon GE hybrid water heater, in retrospect I would have sized it up just a bit if possible, filling the bathtub can be a problem especially in heat pump only mode. It's in the basement under my dining room and you can hear it but it's not loud or anything, just a fan noise.

[@jzjsf]

I live in San Francisco, I've had the same Rheem hybrid heat pump hot water heater for two years, I also have solar, but I do NOT have geothermally-preheated water (nice side benefit!) which doubtless meaningfully reduces the heater's work. Here is my experience: 1. Run it just on heat pump -- Rheem now has essentially the same model but without the 240v heating elements, and I'd recommend that model as it's a little cheaper but also because it is wired for 120v and doesn't require an electrical contractor (or another circuit breaker in a busy circuit box). 2. It is loud like a large refrigerator (not a coincidence): I've installed sound-absorbing dense rubber on the walls and ceiling around the heater in my garage. 3. Given the moist air here, it produces a small stream of condensate -- I have channeled that into a 3/8" plastic pipe that drip-drips into a garage drain. 4. It produces cold air, and I've channeled that into the former gas-heater's exhaust vent. 5. Rheem's app was hard to connect, it will NOT hold my programmed schedule(!), and my efforts with Rheem haven't helped.

[@hoffinger]

I collect the condensate and use it for the garden or laundry. I am in Oakland ca.

[@hoffinger]

That cold air might be useful. I thought of running through a broken refrigerator with venting going in and out. An outdoor California cooler.

[@whatever_12]

I wonder if Is there something that can recover the heat from hvac cooling to used it for heating water.. In places like Florida & Tx their efficiency would be superb

[@mdrudholm]

I just ordered a heat pump water heater a few hours ago. My tank gas heater is at the end of life so a new one was needed. Here in California I got a $700 retail instant coupon and will get a 30% IRS tax credit so purchase price is about on par with a gas heater. Electricity is about $0.24/kWh and gas is about $1.61/therm so my costs according to an online energy calculator I found will be lower than a tank gas heater and about on par with a gas tankless heater. But cooling the garage where the heater is is actually a huge win for me because 8 months out of the year the garage is hotter than I'd prefer and it bakes in there June-September. A win all around, I'd say.

[@ahah1785]

well here in northern Europe most of us have an outside and inside part of the heat pump. It uses heat stored in outside air to heat both water in the radiators and for hot water. Sometimes we need to have a small electric heater as a compliment. But taking air from the house and sucking the energy out of it will be bad in cold climates where you struggle to keep warm.

[@Stephenzaffarano]

The electrical efficiency of our 80 gallon heat pump hybrid water heater is more than 4 times better than our old 50 gallon standard model. We have plenty of square footage in our unfinished portion of the basement, and a welcome side-bonus is that the air stays dry for my microgreen farm! Love your videos! Keep 'em coming!

[@steven7650]

I have one of these, you'll be tempted to leave it in heat pump only mode vs energy saver. I tried this energy saver is actually cheaper per month. It uses a quick hit of electricity to heat the water when needed vs the pump. I've had it installed and tracked since june of 21, Happy to share my graphs and notes. For example the month I insulated the basement it reduced the energy usage significantly. I also ducted it to the kitchen to blow the cool air into there in the summer.

[@mayankkhetan1384]

We live in Massachusetts and we have an A.O. Smith Hybrid Water Heater. It is located next to our air mover (heat pump to heat our home) in the basement making it an ideal condition for the water heater heat pump. But, when in Heat Pump only mode, it started showing an error code HPO (which means that ambient conditions are not appropriate for the heat pump to work). It was only using electric heat to heat water. It is an 80 gallon water heater. I was paying $5 a day to heat water this winter. A.O smith sent a whole new control unit for me to replace it. But, still the error continued. An HVAC professional diagnosed that it may be sensors that are not working. Somehow we convinced A.O. Smith and asked them to send the sensors. After replacing the sensors, the electricity cost is just $1 to $1.5 a day! This is my biggest win so far to save my electric bills. My next project is saving cost on my home heating. It is a brand new Carrier Heat Pump - but I am paying around $700 a month for heating my 1900 sq ft home. Any pointers are welcome!

[@ggreene2642]

I think something's wrong/broken/defective with your heat pump. I live in Western MA and have a ten-year-old York heat pump, heating and cooling a 2050 SF structure built in the late 1980s. In the winter months, my heat pump adds app. $100 a month to the total electric bill. (My total elec. bill for the entire house runs $1,800 a year, or an average of $150/mo. - but that's for everything, i.e., microwave, stove, dryer, tv, lights, A/C, heat, etc. I've never isolated the heat pump, but my guess is my monthly average for heating and cooling is $75 or so.) My first guess would be that your heat pump may be stuck in a permanent/too frequent defrost cycle. But something is absolutely wrong. Your HP is consuming massive amounts of power for some reason.

[@NeilWNC]

At our home in Asheville NC we needed to replace the water heater. I opted for a Rheem heat pump, their top-of-the-line model. After installation we began to have problems with the unit, the controller was misfunctioning. Rheem sent me a new circuit board to replace the faulty one. This cured the control problems, but shortly thereafter the heat pump itself began to struggle to create enough hot water. Apparently an internal coolant line had sprung a leak, allowing the precious gas to escape. In short, the unit was nothing but trouble. Rheem to their credit allowed us a full refund which we used to purchase a conventional electric water heater. We never looked back. What often goes unspoken is that a heat pump is essentially an air conditioner in reverse, with all of the inherent reliability issues. There's no way I want that in my house again.

[@JPs-q1o]

Energy wise setting in fall and spring, heat pump only setting in summer, and recovery (or, I assume, heating elements only) in winter. Easy peazy baby!

[@samsawesomeminecraft]

heat pump water heater is a genius addition to a basement with chronic humidity-related mold problems. The heat pump both cools and dehumidifies the basement, allowing the owner to reduce use of the basement dehumidifier. Also good for pointing the blast of dry air at a laundry line with clothes that need to dry. Basement laundry line lol.

[@keithsmith3118]

That Rheem is over $2k in my area while a no frills electric is just under $500. That's a huge difference to overcome. And that doesn't include install, which is also higher for the hybrid (although the extra SHOULD be a one time expense).

[@walnutcontractors5661]

Thanks for the video. I have 3 of the rheems setup for a 57 unit building. Our ele cost is 10.3cents US /kwh and our therm price is $5.55 US (includes tax,storage,transport). So we pay 3x more than you for gas and 1/3 of your price for ele ! These are running in a mechanical room that houses a 1,000,000 btu 1969 boiler so they get to capture waste heat during heating season. They've been running since July in heat pump only mode but appear to be making a decent dent in our gas usage ( haven't bothered to track ele usage ). The previous setup was 2x 180,000 btu gas hwt and now it is 3x hybrid tanks preheating for a single 180k gas tank. We do employ a recirc pump though so a lot of the hot water may be coming from the gas tank as it is circulated through the building and back into the input for the hybrid tanks. The 3x proterras produce about 12.6k btu so obviously not quite a replacement for 180k btu gas tank which was obviously oversized. I'll run the data again in September. Tough to tell the exact savings as I don't have any separated metrics on how much the boiler / gas water tank are pulling and with the variations in yearly temperature I'll need to wait for more data. I do have 5 years of gas usage in GJs and those numbers are looking promising even though the majority of our gas is being used for the boiler ( next project ).

[@SavageChip810]

Hi from Australia. I’m using a heat pump HWS in my new home 1.4 years old. It lives outside (as do most HWS in our climate) it’s on a solar catch timer to run around midday every day, so it’s completely free basically. My climate is hot and humid 364 days a year with 1 day of winter. I wouldn’t go back to a regular resistive HWS and nor would I ever get a dedicated roof top solar version.

[@TheLostBear78]

I bought one of these last year. I LOVE it. There is no natural gas service in my area. Only options are propane, fuel oil, and electric. Alaska has high energy prices all around. At our propane prices it's over $3 per therm. And our electricity is currently at $0.14 per kWH

[@dreednlb]

I've had a GE Geospring heat pump water heater since 2016. I live in south Texas and it's been great having it cooling my garage. I can count on one hand the number of times my family of 5 has run out of hot water, basically no different than when we had a standard electric water heater. I paid $1,080 in 2016 and got a 30% rebate bringing the out of pocket cost to $756 and installed it myself.

[@briankumpan9892]

There was a doctor here in Amarillo TX who took a 1000 gallon tank, stood it upright, wrapped copper tubing around the outside of the tank, then covered it with insulation, then wrapped the outside with a fiberglass tank (I think) and it sat in its own room. The lined came out from the concrete slab and then insulated all the way out to the solar hot water heaters which had the antifreeze running through the lines and he said he just left it to do the job. He had enough hot water to heat the house if he wanted too, but it was mostly for the washer and dishwasher and showers. Then on the rest of his property he solar panels but said he was also connected to the grid (just in case). The house ran very well

[@opera5714]

I have an ancient NYLE with a COP of 2 and I supplement that with PV solar panels into the resistive heater. My controller optimizes the energy transfer for highest efficiency. It was very cheap to build. None of my system involved any tax incentives. If you remove those incentives, supplemental PV resistive beats the pants off of heat pump for payback. In a utility evaluation, dehumidification was rated top benefit. Like anything, installation location determines how good an idea HPWH are.

[@apterachallenge]

My daughter just moved into a brand new rental house which has a heat pump water heater installed outside the house - this would remediate the noise issue and also allows the cold air to be vented to the atmosphere.

[@gfbrnby]

Matt, I have the same 50 gal Rheem heat pump water heater as you. Our water heater installation seems to be quite unique. The air intake is connected to the heat duct from our whole house heat pump and the water heater's cold air exhaust is connected to the heat pump cold air return duct. Presumably, this means the water heater has a good supply of warm air from which to extract heat and the cold air exhaust air doesn't cool the surrounding area. Because it's not dependent upon the volume of surrounding air it can be in a small, enclosed area. We've had it for seven months and it seems to work like a charm. The only negative related to the Rheem heat pump water heater is a high-pitched whine that comes on every so often. The installer has been here to check it and says it's normal, which is annoying. Fortunately, it's not near our living area so it's not a huge issue. I'll check out Paul Braren's experience. Thanks for another informative video.

[@spankeyfish]

Ducted versions of these are so much better. Kronotherm make one where you can duct the intake and exhaust air out through the wall or roof and another company experimented with attic-sited heatpumps that drew in the air from the attic, warmed by heat escaping from the house, and exhausted cold air out through a roof vent.

[@bagibadoo439]

I live in northen Sweden and everyone has these but slightly different. They look very smart (like a smart fridge) and the hot water is also used for the heating via radiators and floor heating, its the only heat source. And it expels the cold air outside of the house and collects the energy from the house ventilation.

[@GoPappy419]

Thank you for your detailed view of heat pump water heater costs of operation. with my maintenance background I was looking to see comments regarding repair cost, as with any mechanical device that has this many moving parts there will be some. I understand that the length of time that these have been on the market it may be difficult to get that because most of them would be under warranty repairs but, this will have an effect on operational cost overtime and depending on these repair cost. The cost of ownership will change. Gas hot water heaters virtually are free of maintenance cost for the most part until they are in need of replacement. All electric hot water heaters have the occasional heating element that needs to be replaced, but they are typically not that expensive. I’m going to go out on a limb here and speculate that the maintenance repair cost for heat pump water heaters will be significantly higher compared to gas or electric type water heaters. Once this information is being published by reputable repair companies, then we can get a true cost comparison, gas, and electric water heaters.

[@LuminairPrime]

Pro tip: a Drain Water Heat Recovery pipe also works by moving heat, and can mitigate the need for a larger water tank. The catch: you need to design the house such that the showers are above the water heater and drain down into the DWHR which heats the cold water going into the water heater. To everyone asking how it's possible for a heat pump to be efficient in the winter when you're heating the house: it's because you put the water heater in a room that you DON'T heat on purpose and don't mind getting cold. That way it's using mostly waste heat. Furthermore, if that room is in a basement, the earth helps heat the water. Heat pumps work in ANY climate if the system is designed properly. For example: don't put this water heater in your bedroom.

[@spankeyfish]

You can get horizontal wastewater heat recovery (as we call it in the UK) units like the Recoup Easyfit that's designed to fit under a bath. There's also the Baxi SHRU, a few different horizontal units from Zypho and Showersave's linear drain. Showersave also make an in-wall shower unit with built in heat recovery that pumps the wastewater up into a vertical heat recovery unit.

[@ManuFortis]

The way you tied yours into other heat sources was smart. It's something I've been trying to tell others that they should do to make their heat pump systems more efficient. But, and here's where that starts to fail... the contractor costs. Up here in Canada, it's not uncommon for contractors to flip the script on the labor and parts costs to get away with charging more for their labor than it is actually worth. Get receipts, always, with these folk. Some good ones out there, can't forget them, but too often I hear about people paying nearly 3x the amount they should have for a water heater as the part cost when I've seen the same or similar makes and models go for 3x less. The only explanation for that, is they are flipping their costs. And wouldn't ya know it, the receipt somehow never appears. Do they fight it? Nope. Not worth their time usually. Just glad to have it done and over with. But with the twist that they don't want to have to go through it all again, which makes it hard to convince people to get the extra work done that would make their bills much lower in the long run. All because they know they are paying an exorbitant amount upfront. A cost that should be lower. How much lower, hard to say, but lower.

[@frankenberry9670]

The best explanation I've heard for the efficiency numbers forf a heat pump is to compare it to a tanker carrying diesel fuel that is pulled by a highway tractor. The efficiency calculation uses the amount of fuel used by the tractor and compares it to the total amount of fuel at the end of the trip, including what is in the tank that was being towed. So if you burn 300 litres of fuel in a 500 litre fuel tank and have 50,000 litres in the towed tank you have 300 used and 50,200. The efficiency is pretty good. If you pull the tank up hill then the tractor uses more fuel but the tank is still full. Going down hill the tractor uses less fuel.

[@mikeferryall1424]

I have the same Rheem hybrid water heater in my garage. I live in Tulsa, OK. I installed it in October last year as the final step in electrifying my house. I have been running mine in heat pump mode for about two months. I was running it in energy saver mode prior to that. Per the Rheem app, it seems to use less energy in heat pump mode. We actually bumped ours down from 135 to 130 because the water seemed to get hotter when we switched modes. Performance wise, it keeps up with everything except baths. We need to flip it to high demand mode for those. Cost wise, our natural gas fluctuates between $0.4 and $1.1 per therm. Electricity is $0.08 - $0.14 per kwh. It should be cost neutral when compared to gas. Winter costs more but we make it up in the summer. I'll add that I electrified my house because my gas meter was costing me $50/month, before any usage. My natural gas consumption was ~$200/year. $600/year for the meter to spend $200/year on gas didn't make sense. My house is well insulated and air sealed. I heat pumped all the things and am seeing nice savings in my energy costs, before factoring in the $50/month for the gas meter! The next step is solar with batteries, but I need interest rates to drop first.

[@evolv.e]

⁠​​⁠​​⁠I’ve converted our appliances and vehicles off of gas four years ago and have no regrets. Replaced the old gas furnace with a heat pump. Replaced the old gas dryer with a heat pump combo washer/dryer. Replaced the vehicles with BEV’s. Home’s circuits are backed up with 14.4kWh of batteries, which are replenished daily from 24 roof solar panels. Because of the reduced energy needed, and combined lowered usage, our electric company now cuts a check each year for the excess energy sent back to the grid, and am gratefully grandfathered into NEM 2.0 for the next twenty years. No gas bill. No electric bill. No trips to the gas station, and no more loud generators. I create my own energy and store it silently and power my home and vehicles with that same energy. And the overage checks from the utility company have amounted to a little over $2200 so far since installing our system 4 years ago, which has already earned back around 20% of our battery storage investment. Combined with the savings our solar creates, our solar and battery back up are on track to have fully paid for themselves between the 16th-19th year, depending on changes in energy usage and solar generation fluctuations due to varying weather conditions. Having done the math, and factoring the monthly payment for the solar (batteries are paid off) and backing out the average utility bill credits, it only costs an average of $71 a mo to power the home and fuel the family’s vehicles, which is crazy cheap if one really puts it into perspective. I financed the panels at a low interest rate back in early 2020 and love the peace of mind knowing one day it will all be net positive after it’s paid off. I’ve got the battery back up programmed to take over from the grid each day from 4pm till 8am, then gets refilled each day from the roof panels, with excess going back to the grid generating bill credits. And so far, no outages when the grid goes down. Back up power is so seamless, I only occasionally find out there was an outage in the area afterwards. In all, it’s been nothing but a great experience so far and feels great to have taken control over our household’s energy costs. I’d have to say the two biggest savings so far were switching out the old dryer to the heat pump combo and switching out the old gas furnace for the heat pump. Far fewer amps drawn, quieter, and of course much less expensive. Before switching to heat pumps, we’d have a $700+ gas bill in one month alone (February). Fast forward to today and having no gas bill is financially freeing. And having the battery back up to offset peak energy usage has also been a huge savings. Tesla’s PowerWall 2 and 3 have a very competitive kWh/$ ratio for a commercially available app controlled battery backup, plus have dedicated solar modes if powering a BEV and also can benefit from their VPP program if available for your state/utility. A great alternative that I went with was Delta Pro(they now have an even larger Delta Pro Ultra option) modular batteries from EcoFlow. Has a slightly higher KWh/$ ratio compared to a PowerWall, but if you want to build your back up as you go, or want to tailor the kWh’s to your needs, it’s a well designed system, and can be taken with you if you move to a new home, or just want to detach a module for camping or off grid use, which I’ve done. Bluetti and a few others also offer similar modular systems.

[@ssnydess6787]

I really like living with my new house heat pump water heater. It's a State brand, Pro XE model with many of the features your Rheem has. Since I am single, I use it in pure heat pump mode. The builder also installed a hot water loop system that I have disconnected as the local electrical utility, APS is an extreme rip off . Let me explain. One of the options I had was an upgraded solar system that is a bit small. Any excess production of my system during high demand period (4 PM to 7 PM) gets paid a whopping $.07/kWh, while any make up power I may need during that time period is billed to me at $.27/kWh! And the reimbursed price that I am being paid is set to decrease to $.02/kWh in about 5 years! I am not sure what the utility comission is thinking by granting 10% per year rate increases for the last three years and cutting what solar system owners are reimbursed, but it makes little to no economic sense to invest $10,000 to $20,000 (not counting batteries). So in simple terms, the utility is selling my solar excess production for almost 300% more than they are paying me. Having said that, the builder also installed a hot water circulating system that I disconnected. My construction supervisor told me I needed to run it in Hybred mode because all the home owners were complaing the heat pump was always running, even with the "smartswitch sensor" installed. The answer was simple, the water heater was heating all the hotwater lines throughout the house. I went all electric after a gas hotwater heater that had more in user fees and taxes than I was using. Now the water heater and house heat pump are on wifi controled switches that stop them from running during the peak hours. What a work around!

[@MikeT-TheRetiredColonel]

Hey, Matt, fellow Masshole here - lol. Big user of MassSave and going through them for my mini-splits that I'm going to have done, which includes a $16k rebate that is taken care of by the installer. Brings the price down to under $19k for complete install of 7 units between two outdoor elements. My hot water is oil-based, so no such luck on going the route of the Rheam, at least not yet ;)

[@HappyFlappyFarm]

I love these videos that take an in-depth look at the newest energy efficient technologies for the home - thank you! We are preparing to build our ICF, Long-term home and are looking for technology to help us reach our goals. I am glad to learn from your experience. One challenge I have had is to meet the standards our architect has suggested for our house with the windows. I want to review your videos about the construction of your house to see if you mentioned your window choice and the u factor and solar heat gain coefficient. I have only found one company so far that meets the standard (.21 u factor) and that means importing windows from Germany. I feel like I must be missing some companies that would also meet the standard but in my area of North Alabama the climate is mild enough that the lower standards are accepted. Thank you for your inspiration and information!

[@Mark-pp9yx]

About 4 months ago I put in the identical Rheem heat pump water heater. The only downside is that it makes a chirping noise that can be heard in most of the adjacent rooms (most being bed rooms). It’s in the same room as the HVAC which is quitter. During the night I have to change the schedule to run on the electric elements only to cut the noise. It does make the room cold so I’m going to vent it outside the room (both intake and exhaust) and try wrapping it with insulation to see if I can reduce the noise. Since duct runs are going to be a little longer then recommended, I will also include a low CFM inline fan to address this but there is no real way of controlling this from the water heater so it may be just a waste of electricity by the time everything is said and done and I may have wished I just went back to a Natural gas water heater. Would I do this again…no.

[@Racskogabor]

Great content! Thanks! To save money I purchesed a smaller heater than the recommended to force the family to use less water and save energy at the same time. The heat pump needs 4-5 hours to heat up the 110 litres of water. The regular heating element needs 1-2 hours. Furtunatelly in the heater there are both and I can decide which one to use. The other thing I found to decrease the costs is to timecontrol the heater with a smart socket. Defenietly the heat pump generates noise, but since I let it switch on only before we need the hot water (MON-FRI 1100-2000, SAT-SUN 0900-2000) the night are quiet and the consumption went even further down.

[@Mr4Bikes]

Matt, As someone with an undergraduate degree in chemistry (which is to say heavy on the physics) I think I have to agree with the HVAC guy who commented earlier. A heat pump water heater moves heat from its environment (which in the NE is going to be your basement) to the hot water. Drawing heat from the air in your basement is going to cause you to want to heat it (so that it does not become a meat locker), especially during the winter. So, at the end of the day, the efficiency of your hot water heat pump really depends upon the efficiency of whatever you are using to heat the air in your basement. I am in the process of building a new house. It will be heated with a heat pump that is augmented by a propane furnace for really cold days. The HVAC guy asked me whether I was interested in a heat pump hot water heater. I responded, "Why would I want to heat the air in my basement only to draw the heat out of that air that I just heated in order to heat water? How is that more efficient than heating the water directly?" I think he agreed with my logic. So, I am using propane to make DHW. Now, a ground source heat pump for hot water might make sense. There the heat is not being robbed from the air in your basement, which you paid to heat by some other means.

[@laura-ann.0726]

I am thinking of this myself. I live in Sacramento, CA, where our electric service is from a not-for-profit Municipal Utility District, but gas service is PG&E. From about 2000 to 2020, gas cost me about 45¢/therm (100 cubic feet), but in the last couple of years, it's TRIPLED, to about $2.50/therm. If a heat pump water heater can reduce my utility bill, I'm all for it.

[@georged9615]

I've had one for 5 years. One of the best purchases ever. Can't believe the efficiency. Two or three times, I've had to "reboot" it - power off and power on because it stopped heating the water. Very minor inconvenience. Recovery time not a problem for us. Remember, it moves heat from the surrounding area so it will cool the area around it. It also removes moisture in the summer, like a dehumidifier. Mine is next to my furnace, so cooling the surrounding area is only a slight problem in the late spring.

[@doug74]

I live in Japan and have a Daikin EcoCute (Heat Pump) water heater that uses an AC split unit. I also have solar power in my house with a 10kWh battery. I only allow the EcoCute to heat water during the day for three hours with electricity from my solar panels, so it costs nothing to run. During typhoons to conserve battery power, I have used the water from the EcoCute for three days without having to heat the water, so the system is very efficient at keeping the water temperature.

[@windaddiction]

What's awesome is the electrical savings going from a resistance heater to heat pump is enough for most people to charge and ev with. It's crazy how much energy is used in heating water. I had to vent my mechanical room. I also put a small hole in my return duct to move the air in my mech room

[@johnoconnor5581]

About 2 years ago I replaced my 38 year old State brand gas water heater with another of the same brand. There was nothing wrong with it, was not leaking, heated fine, I just figured I’d do it on my schedule before it became a problem. In the meantime, my sister is on her third heat pump water heater in 8 years (the second one was furnished under warranty but she had to pay for installation, the third one was entirely on her nickel). We live in Texas where we have access to natural gas at affordable rates. I have gas heat, gas water heater, gas clothing dryer, and a natural gas fired Weber gas grill on my back porch. In summer my monthly gas bill is $15-$20, in winter maybe $125 if we have cold temps. If the electricity goes out in January and the blower on my furnace won’t run to heat the house, at least we can take hot showers and cook. I’m not against reducing my carbon footprint, I love my battery electric lawnmower and blower and I may install solar panels in the future. The other economic factor many people fail to consider in moving to complex high efficiency equipment is the medical cost for the stroke you are likely to have keeping up with all the repairs and replacements you may incur

[@michaelmcpherson8287]

Nice story. Does it come in hardcover?

[@johnoconnor5581]

Yes, can I postal you a copy? $39.99 plus $14 USPS shipping Media rate

[@kellymccomb5654]

What was not addressed, other than a cold mechanical room, is where the heat pump gets it's energy (heat) from. The house which is heated how? The cost of extracting heat from house and the efficiency of extraction as well as the cold walls in rooms adjacent. Not too sure on the full explanation here seems a bit jaded to me. Seems to be good in hot climates but not so in cold ones.

[@hvacentrepreneur322]

Love your videos… specially about Heat Pumps… I’m starting a new HVAC company in California and heat pumps & efficient systems will be our main focus… I preferred to watch & learn from your videos compared to talking & learning from typical sales engineer of HVAC manufacturers… Also, since I commented, want to mention that another extra cost to upgrade from Gas Water heater to HP Water heater is the electrical upgrades… Most of them requires 208/230V - 40amps dedicated circuit.

[@Froggability]

I notice after some years calcium deposits adhere inside the copper heat exchange, causing "high head pressure" in the refrigerant system, that in turn causes the compressor to get hot, eventually lost efficiency, the only saver is reaching setpoint, or if not the Klixon operates

[@ronhoffman2405]

Matt, since you are taking the heat from the air in your house, that means your furnace has to run that much more to replace the heat in your house. So it can change the value of efficiency. Better efficiency could be obtained with better heat exchanger design within the water heater. Think high efficiency furnace where exhaust gas is below 120 degrees F. The baffles have much more area.

[@laminatedhalo]

Given that your home is super tight, you're almost certainly getting substantively all of the heat for your water heater from inside the envelope of your house. In the winter, all of that heat is being pumped in by your geothermal system. So your water heater is adding load to your geothermal system and you're pumping heat through two pumps. I derived the exact formula for calculating COP of a stacked system (it's just a little algebra), and I'll have to see if I can dig it up. IIRC, it tends to be a bit under half of the lowest COP pump. So if both the HPWH and GSHP were operating with a COP around 3, your total COP would be a bit less than 1.5.

[@kenbrown2808]

one thing that must be considered in selecting a heat pump water heater it is will produce condensate, and so will need a drain. for me, it's a nonissue. mine's in my garage, and the condensate drain irrigates one of my rose beds it can also be plumbed into a plumbing drain. the smart money for a new house would be to have it share airspace with the household refrigerator and freezer.

[@Grandez94]

Thanks Matt for bringing up this topic. As a swede I find it funny that americans thinks geothermal and heatpumps is somekind of new invention. We've had geothermal sinces the 70s. In sweden pretty much everybody has heatpumps and geothermal as we dont have access to gas. And our electrical bills is typically higher than you have. The heatpumps we use combine here in sweden combines hvac and a heatpump to an all-in-one-system. It typically gives the heatpump a COP-factor of 4,5 to 6. The heatpump regulates the airflow in the house, it draws fresh air from the outside and pump it around the house than it take the preheated warm air from the house and brings it to the compressor and it uses that energy from the warm air to heat up the house again with floorheating and gives warm water for use and it also preheats the incoming air. Some heatpumps also include geothermal and with that you cloud also cool the houses in the summer by pumping down the heat into the ground. And the combined hvac-geothermal heatpumps are also much more efficent when its really cold outside compared to "regular" swedish heatpumps beacuse they do not depend that much on the cold air from the outside.

[@EdHarlowSax]

A recent roofing job on my house required the removal of our 12 year old solar hot water panels - part of a Secusol system. We have LOVED this system. Free hot water all year round and our zero percent loan is long paid off. I was planning on putting the system right back on after the roofing was complete, but the installer cautioned me against it saying that the system is is getting to the point that I would likely start having problems with it. When I asked what was most likely to fail, he said it would probably be the heat exchanger loop in the water tank carrying the glycol which goes up to the panels and back. Though I have had good experiences with the installer, he also has a vested interest in my buying a new system, which is what he is suggesting I do. That new system would be an electric heat pump with a large door-sized radiator that would live outdoors, in the side of the house. It was explained to me that this is designed to keep the system from stealing interior heat. Does this sound like a better, more efficient system than what it would be replacing? Thanks for your thoughts.

[@scottbitz5222]

In WI (where I live) in the summer this wouldn't be terrible in my uninsulated and unfinished basement because it means that extra cold air would help my AC since less cold air would flow into the basement from upstairs, however, this would stink in the winter since I'd now by cooling my already cold basement further and my furnace would work harder. Basically, it probably wouldn't be a wash due across the year and gas prices fluctuate slightly less here than electricity does. Another benefit of having a gas water heater is that I have hot water regardless of the state of my electricity.

[@jwhite4]

I have this same unit (going on a year) and agree with all the comments. Definitely less operating cost than a traditional electric heater (which I was replacing). But concerned with the not-uncommon component failure that required replacement with your own labor or cost. In terms of this video, if you're able to preheat your inlet water to 110', then almost any hot water will have low operating costs. I also noticed he's superheating his water to 140', and then using I assume a mixing valve. That's also probably non-standard for most users.

[@Jm4steam]

I have the Rheem 50 gal Heat pump tank. I got the tax credit and the rebate. I installed myself. The noise level is like a dehumidifier. In the last year my water heating went down to half and more. In the summer it helps cool the home. In the winter I can shut it off at night (programmable) or switch it to electric if needed. I like how you can set it to use electric with the heat pump for high demand times.