The Girlboss Villain Is Everywhere - It's Enough Now

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The mid-2010s saw a burst of rhetoric and excitement around real-life Girlbosses and their falls from grace. But the rise of Girlboss antagonists onscreen continues a long tradition of villainizing ambitious female characters and suggesting their desire for power is unwomanly or unnatural.
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We are The Take (formerly ScreenPrism).

[@thetake]

The first 1,000 people to use this link will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare: skl.sh/thetake10214

[@torisantiago9176]

Hey can you please do the loner trope that trope crosses any gender.

[@torisantiago9176]

And maybe the bully trope.

[@torisantiago9176]

And when you do the loner trope don’t make it seem like the loner is always the victim of bullying

[@darklightimages]

What's funny is your previous video glorifies this aspect and portrays it as good thing when used against males but because its showcasing it in this light that vilifies women, you have to make a video that is hypocritical to your previous videos and i find that. . . Beautiful, because as you make this video you inertially prove this archetype to be true. I hope you continue making more videos to push your ideals and as such continue to prove this character troupe more and more true. I say this because no matter what you always make it no completely the women's fault that they are well fucking evil in these cases so movies and stories have to set it up in such a way that you cant blame anyone else but the women and even then you make it some how about men. Its great. i want your channel to rise and grow and to create more women with this ideal because the destruction and fire that will follow in its wake will warm more soul as I watch everything burn to the ground from the females that adopt this ideal.

[@MayaLarsen-y3r]

I have to disagree that women can be just as greedy and corrupt just as men, sorry.However I would like to see a possitive girlboss on screen.

[@trinaq]

Fun Fact: Miranda's line of "Everyone wants to be us" was supposed to be "Everyone wants to be ME", but Meryl Streep found it too dramatic, and changed it at the table reading. An excellent call, since it says more about Miranda's character than the original line did, in my opinion.

[@sohndustin]

it's not because she found it too dramatic. She changed the word to "us" to show how Miranda's perspective on Andy changed by the end, because Meryl knew that change would help amplify Andy's arc and enrich the overall story (amateur actors only pay attention to their lines, or worse, improvise for the sake of improv. great actors can find opportunities to sharpen the script by understanding their character's relation to the central theme)

[@atlroxmysox98]

@@sohndustin yeah like it serves as a wake up call to andy to see how far gone she is in that world, she realizes she doesn’t even recognize herself anymore

[@sohndustin]

@@atlroxmysox98 exactly. Trina heard the fact, misremembered it and shared her version like a game of telephone and it irks me that hundreds of people are liking it even though it doesn't even make sense.🤦‍♂

[@Nothanku_]

Some of these examples are really stretches (Lydia from Breaking Bad, Ursula from the Little Mermaid)? Just because a female character is in a position of power it doesn’t mean she exhibits “girlboss” traits.

[@emmab2277]

Yeah I was confused about that, when do either of these characters pretend to be feminist or "girlboss"? I mean, Lydia was literally a meth distributor

[@Cityweaver]

And Ursula actually encourages traditional feminine behavior, although she does it in a tongue-and-cheek way that an optimist may hope means she doesn't really believe it.

[@evelyn4043]

At first I disagreed with this comment but then I can’t deny. Lydia was no boss. Breaking bad did not show her as a boss but a self centered women with access to loads and loads of the main ingredient needed to prepare meth. Yeah that was a stretch. Villain yes, boss no. Lol

[@ray_area0468]

The Ursula one felt really misplaced. She was killed because she was evil, not because she was a boss or in a position of power

[@Cityweaver]

@@ray_area0468 Well, she had singular power and she wanted more power. She was evil, because she was greedy and vindictive against the king. I think it's usually a flaw for feminists to say that an archetype or character is sexist simply because the character is a woman. Ursula and Scar are literally identical characters, preying of the hero's naive nature to take their place. I've watched people project and make allegories around Ursula my whole life. "She's a body positive business woman." "She rebelled against patriarchy, in some way, to get kicked out of the kingdom." In SOME way? Do you think it may have something to do with the poor, unfortunate souls she's captured and locked away into sea polyps?! I think the defining reason Ursula shouldn't be on the list is that, again, if the definition of a girlboss is someone who pretends to use feminism to lure underlings into a false sense of camaraderie, feminist writers should be able to tell the difference between characters that never did that and are blatantly evil, and actual "hurrah, hurrah!" Girlbosses. The point of a girl boss is supposed to be that the characters and we as the audience thought that they were going to be a better person, (largely because they're women). Ariel looked directly AT Ursula's victims and signed the contract anyway. As much as adults want to pontificate upon drawing allegories between this and the complexities of capitalism and contracts, in the end, it's just a children's fairy tale about a witch and a horny 14-year-old girl. Like, it's like if you saw a Southern Black preacher man who sounded exactly like Rev MLK Jr., but they turn out to be the villain and they cultivated their image specifically to lure us into thinking they were harmless and had all the best intentions. If a dude walked up to you looking, talking, and acting like Tekashi 6ix9ine and you treated him and his crew like they were upstanding NAACP volunteers, that's on you for what happens next.

[@fantaghiro1389]

Seeing shows about americans living in Europe like Emily in Paris and Ted Lasso growing popular on the internet, a sugestion for next theme video would be the Culture Clash Tropes story, where americans go to live in other countries or vice versa, and how sometimes those stories can teach respect to cultural diversity, or be more prejudiced in the execution

[@ssissigui8846]

Excellent idea. Im from France and I actually HATE movies about Americans coming to France because it is FULL of clichés. Emily in Paris is one of those. If you want to watch a movie about an American going to France and living a realistic french experience. I suggest you watch STILLWATER with MATT DAMON. An amazing movie and the depiction of FRANCE (it's in Marseille ) feels soo real. That's the first American I ve watched in my entire life that does that very well

[@Emthe30something]

@@ssissigui8846 I'm going to keep an eye then on STILLWATER coming to streaming services. Thank you for the suggestion.

[@masterofsilence649]

That sounds great

[@fynna8640]

@@ssissigui8846 Je regarderai, merci ! Je suis d'IDF et Emily in Paris me fait rire tellement c'est stupide. Mais oui c'est insultant

[@vloggetts]

Ooo yes! I love the writing on Ted Lasso but as a Brit it always slightly grates on me that the Americans always kinda rudely make American analogies that none of the British characters understand, expect British characters to kinda go along with the American way of doing things and just generally make British culture the butt of the joke in a way that isn't really sophisticated or particularly funny to us. It very much feels like an American show written for Americans set in Britain rather than a show written by both for both. I imagine French people probably feel very similarly about Emily in Paris, although I felt the end of season 2 was kind of a refreshing subversion of that. For more interesting takes on culture clash, I thought Earthquake Bird showed an interesting contrast between a Swedish ex-pat living in Japan and an American tourist.

[@JG-kk1mr]

shiv is no more of a villain than any other character on succession. she's as nuanced, complex and fucked up as the men, and that's exactly how it should be.

[@philim9267]

She's probably one of my favourite modern female characters, honestly

[@A-G-A-G]

She has the most duality of any character Ruthless yet feels so insecure and vulnerable underneath it all Smart but too rash and impulsive Supposed liberal yet throws her beliefs away more often than any other character in the pursuit of power

[@m.k4447]

and yet, she's by far the most despised of the siblings because "how could she be so mean to Tom??!!!". As if Kendall wasn't terrible to Rava, as if Roman isn't just...the worst to everyone. It's always so interesting to see people justify their hatred of her as somewhat right, because in a show with someone as reprehensible as Logan, if the person you hate the most is Shiv, something is shifty.

[@thenorsepioneer7311]

People think they’re all bad. But Kendall is cringe and Roman and Tom are pretty funny. Whereas, shiv has no likeable or entertaining qualities. That’s why people hate her the most. She’s just insufferable to watch

[@A-G-A-G]

@@m.k4447 ikr! Roman may be likeable and charismatic in some ways, but it doesn’t mean he’s not the more terrible person.

[@cqtaylor]

If a male character can be a villain, a female character can be a villain too - without it having anything to do with misogyny.

[@anyssamoya1559]

And yet, if you portray a powerful woman who's too "good," then you are upholding unattainable standards. Either she's too virtuous or she's too villianous, so either which way, it's seen as some sort of attack on women. How about, just maybe, men and women can both be assholes, and the corporate ladder tends to reward asshole behavior. Anything a man can do, a woman can do just as well... and anything a man can do poorly or immorally, a woman can do just as poorly or immorally.

[@d-extra5814]

So Brave

[@snakebite002]

@@anyssamoya1559 I agree

[@Heothbremel]

Lol this is a statement that could use some clarifying context...

[@cqtaylor]

@@anyssamoya1559 For me, a powerful female character who didn't have "unattainable standards" was Ellen Ripley from the Aliens franchise. Sigorney Weaver played a middle-aged, non-super-powered, female protagonist who was intelligent, level-headed, brave yet capable of fear, and grounded. Her appeal had little to do with sex - yeah, there was a scene with her in her underwear but to be fair, all the human characters were in their underwear in these films. It's difficult to look at Ellen Ripley and think "she's too good, her standards are unattainable." Heck, in 2021 there are hundreds of Ellen Ripleys in the U.S. military, alone.

[@fortune_roses]

I agree. But could it also be that quite a few people do gain power through villainous means, regardless of *gender or race or country?* Because people who crave power usually have megalomaniac tendencies... *just a thought*

[@Val--H]

Yeah while I think the double standard that women are punished and hated more intensely for wrongdoing is misogynist, I don't know that framing capitalistic ambition as villainous is. You're not gonna find a lot of "nice" women succeeding at CEO level, because capitalism doesn't reward that.

[@driftingdruid]

the megalomaniacs attaining power through villainous means, regardless of gender, race, or country, is as obvious as your nose we were watching about how cis-women in positions of authority are portrayed as more villainous than cis-men in positions of authority in both fictional media and news media, regardless of how villainous they actually are thank you for catching up

[@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024]

Yeah no. Learn more.

[@sandramilfort9261]

Rosamund Pikes is just wonderful in everything ❤

[@treacherousjslither6920]

She's currently in the Wheel Of Time series on Amazon Prime. It's really good

[@wendisparadeofperfumes5034]

Marla was a truly repulsive, psychopathic, evil, and just 100% vicious person with not a single redeeming quality. She was justifiably killed by a man who's mother she robbed and had committed and isolated from her family. He wasn't some Random "disgruntled man" are you kidding me? Meanwhile Ursula was kind of a fun villain in the fairy tale realm based on the character Divine played by Glenn Milstead. Both examples miss the mark.

[@hitcherooney]

I used to love this channel but now more recent videos seems to just push “oh men bad women good” narrative without solid evidence to back it up. :(

[@wendisparadeofperfumes5034]

@@hitcherooney I agree. They're really reaching with a lot of their commentary. Maybe running out of ideas?

[@jasayehan]

I love how The Take ended the year with this! Nuanced, interesting characters that are often subjected to criticism from a patriarchal lens, yet some also remind us that doesn't mean you are one of us means you will champion our causes.

[@meggy0]

Can we not stand up for Elizabeth Holmes? The difference for me with Theranos is that she was always the face of that company, and she used that to her advantage. It's different to the examples you provided.

[@hanamuhamadamin7692]

I agree with you, honestly.

[@greywolf7577]

People would not support a man who did what Elizabeth Holmes did. We shouldn't support her either.

[@anthonyml7]

Basically it doesn't matter weather its a guy or girl. There's good bosses and there's bad bosses everywhere. I'm surprised she didn't mention Joy from "Joy" I feel that movie does a great job (realistically and accurately) portraying the girlboss trope.

[@kathil.2902]

Great video on the misogyny behind the villainous girlboss. However, if you go into enough detail to suggest how the character design should be adjusted, it should have been addressed that even in this video there was not a single black woman to be seen in a clip. This is of course a problem in and of itself as there are likely not many films with characters of black female CEOs but should be mentioned in a video like this nonetheless to bring attention to the lack of diversity.

[@Allera13666]

Damn, that is a strong video. As a woman in man's world myself (I'm an automatic engineer) it really hit me, how I didn't even notice that huge difference in approaching the failure in man vs. woman driven companies/projects. Thank you for that video!

[@madnessarcade7447]

The bold type’s Jacqueline Carlyle is how a girl boss should be

[@Missmagazinebura]

I was thinking of the devil meets Prada

[@theairbornegib5932]

This is taking internet culture speak took far… while I think some of these criticisms are valid, many of these characters are far more nuanced to be called just a “girlboss”. Am I the only one who thinks this term is really stupid?

[@s.g.2244]

The term is stupid. Ironically I've never heard a woman self-subscribe to it but the media cycle and pop culture picked it up like wildfire because society is obsessed with humbling women. "What's the next big term we can weaponize against females now?" Cheugy? Basic? Girlboss? Diva? So glad I'm at the age where I can see past it but met a lot of younger women mostly gen z with internalized misogyny who generalize successful older women as Girl Bosses and Cheugy. So yes, agreed, some of these characters are more nuanced than the term endears but a lot of people already blanket that term onto these characters.

[@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254]

Nuance! Sigourney Weaver's character being dissed for her thin body probably hurt because I am sure she was dieting a lot in real life and curves were falling out of favor. It reminds me of some Bridget Jones fanfics I read in the past where Mark would describe some slim woman's body unfavorably but still go to bed with her and he's comparing her often to Bridget. And we're supposed to feel bad if it turns out that the slim woman was just using him for sex. Good for her.

[@Chris-rg6nm]

I think it was just an insult

[@darlalathan6143]

@@Chris-rg6nm All insults are taken and given as personal attacks.

[@sujitroy3628]

Nope, the critique is valid. If the trope is misogynistic, it's because girlbosses are misogynstic.

[@StrikerVaskin]

The Take, I love what you guys are doing. Could you please do a video on this topic? The Pregnant Woman trope in horror movies, such as: Women getting impregnated by aliens. Women turning into bloated hives for alien reproduction. A woman giving birth to a demonic child. A woman carrying a baby for an evil cult. Even men getting impregnated by an otherworldly seductress. Misogynist, sexist, rape culture or just pushing a fear of aliens and demons? Is it possible to make a story arc where the woman who was impregnated, is recovering from this mental scarring?

[@forcaaereabrasileira5394]

Reminds me of Alien Vs Predator....

[@garciavashchino1]

Female characters need to be written with a 2/1 ratio. 2 Females and 1 male. You get the input of the male if they want to write her like one. If the male attempts to overide the one female writter, you have another to side with her so that it is fair. This may sound sexist, but a female supervisor asked me one day about an idea she brought up to a different department. I listened to her idea, a realized how good it was, I agreed with her so much I advised her to drop the hammer on the idea because it was so good. What I'm saying is, sometimes dudes talk over ladies and don't listen. I know I'm not a lady, but I could only input male ideas as my POV is male.

[@treacherousjslither6920]

How is 2 women and 1 man fair?

[@gabbytheartfriend]

I have to disagree with this idea that a villainous woman in power is somehow misogynistic. I think it’s important to reflect on the idea that gender shouldn’t matter, the depth of character should. _No_ villain, male _or_ female should be evil simply because of their gender, but we also shouldn’t preclude women from being bad in high-powered roles. It’s also a reflection of the way that high-powered positions demand a certain set of characteristics that shape villains into villains, or just allow the person that was always trash inside to become high-powered because they’re ruthless enough to fill the slot. I reject the notion that it’s sexist to paint a woman in an unflattering light, or have them present as overly masculine to compensate for the ways that femininity can make you look bad in the world of business. That’s a natural reflection of the current environment, in some ways, and realism is always more important to me than being woke. In short: make characters dimensional and more than one-note or based on gender, and you’ll be closer to crafting a decent story.

[@horsesrock081]

Honestly I think the biggest problem with this trope is that it trivialises the systematic problem of capitalism to an individual problem: i.e. suggesting that the problem with capitalism is that there is a certain bad person in power, rather than that the system itself is inherently unequal and destructive.

[@bruins94laurent85]

Shiv is much more of a complicated and nuanced character to just be referred to as girl boss lol

[@aidankeohane3370]

I mean, I can’t really blame Ursula. She only has two employees. And they’re both eels

[@irrelevantirrelevant7332]

There is no polite way of saying this, but I dont think you got the topic at all. The trope that a "good woman" becomes a leader and then turns cruel, uncaring or just behaves as all her (male) predecessors is not inherently misogynistic - it exemplifies that not the gender turns a leader into a cruel boss, but the situation. Women, as depicted, are not inherently better leaders. Becoming a good leader is a classic heros journey. It involves making mistakes, learning from them, growing as a character and then using the newly developed skills benevolently for your colleagues. And this is indepent of gender or sex. All sexes and genders have to go through the learning curve.

[@iano8524]

It’s really easy to repeat the same cliche about the misogyny and the patriarchy whenever people don’t like a female character. The ones who hyped for the girl boss trope were women, and who hyped more for the villainous girl boss were women also, because that was seen also as anti patriarchal trope and proving that women are such powerful as men. Then after all this nonsense it came to the truth that women are just as bad as men. No one is good just because its gender, every person is different, and women will not become better bosses just because they are women. When people said that before it was also misogynistic and patriarchal. That it became so cliché and futile arguments.

[@halelisaningcobo3466]

You need to be competitive to thrive, man or woman. It’s just hard to be liked at the same time. I’m a 20y/o guy, super ambitious & a lot of people are repelled on autopilot... I’m learning to deal with it now because I understand that it’s a necessary sacrifice, I have to constantly simply my life so I can focus on my goals...Rarely get my cake & eat it too.

[@aylenvillarreal5439]

Amaizing vid, thank you!

[@SantiagoMr8]

Another The Take video that is a huge stretch

[@usri43]

Its not.

[@SantiagoMr8]

@@usri43 really? That ursula bossgirl argument?

[@dimplesd8931]

Ask Adam Neuman from We Work if a Man-boss can’t be blamed, correctly for the failure of a business?

[@akbrahma7739]

Evil people are unapologetically evil, and people find excuses to forcefully potray them as good, by putting them in baskets of sympathy. The former will do all kind of evil things, and people will twist facts by saying, he/she did out of circumstance, coz of his/her background etc etc etc.

[@natalie651]

Let's name a few girlboss shero stories just for fun: Zero Dark Thirty, The Matrix, DON'T TELL MOM THE BABYSITTER IS DEAD - an underappreciated classic, Mad Men. Can't think of anything else and these really are generally old.

[@whoisyouranime]

I wish you included The Boss starring Melissa Macarthy and The Associate starring Whoopi Goldberg. Those are examples of Girl Boss movies if I'm not mistaken.

[@paulamcoldlady9468]

101 dálmatas have a girl boss

[@animalmania2381]

I kind of agree with some of these takes but have to wonder if the problem isn't that the reaction to women's misdeeds is too strong and is instead that the reaction to men doing these things is too weak. A bit like the whole 'boys will be boys' vs 'that's not ladylike' issue

[@1987Liono]

Marla Grayson is a worse villain than Storefront or Dany.

[@amber5802]

Actually it’s not enough now .

[@isabellasimonetti6126]

borgen's birgit nyborg redeems the girl boss, she's the prime minister and has to compromise because that's how politics work, but she's idealistic, her feminism is genuine and loves power yet still believes in power to all the people and it's class and race concious

[@catsthemovie4692]

What movie is that about the girls on an island trapped there by the girl boss?

[@hayeslundry]

Watch Elementary for some great girlboss. I feel there is eventually unexpected warmth in it that is great.

[@Truthshallsety0ufree]

No more prevalent than the male boss villain.

[@moonlily1]

I did spend the length of 'I Care A Lot' rooting for Marla's death, but when it came it was hollow, because the evil system she'd set in motion didn't need her anymore in order to stay in motion. Her death BEFORE teaming up with Roman would have prevented the horror it resulted in, but after what was done was done, it made no difference at all. I left not knowing how this movie wanted me to feel and I honestly don't know WHAT point it was trying to make.

[@treacherousjslither6920]

Maybe there's no point. Just entertainment.

[@moonlily1]

@@treacherousjslither6920 If that were the case it would have been a dumber movie. If you were talking about 'Stepbrothers' I'd agree, but this wasn't a light or easy to watch film. If there was no objective to the story telling they wouldn't have given you an anger-inducing story that never offers you an emotional release or just resolution and give you a protagonist that you cannot identify with or root for. This was a film that sets out to provoke the viewer rather than please them. There is 100% supposed to be a point. People don't watch things that make them feel terrible just for something to do.

[@treacherousjslither6920]

@@moonlily1 The filmmakers are simply telling us a story for our entertainment. This movie was a drama and it tugged at our emotions but I'm unaware of any overarching message or anything. Maybe there was one and I'm simply not very perceptive. Or maybe such a thing is subjective. I didn't perceive any message but maybe someone did.

[@moonlily1]

@@treacherousjslither6920 I don't feel that's so because of the argument I already made, so agree to disagree.

[@lw5110]

As someone who’s had lots of women bosses, most of these women have been cruel and so much worse than their male counterparts

[@s.g.2244]

We also have different expectations, even at times unrealistic expectations of female bosses, so much more than their male counterparts.

[@StephenLeGresley]

Yea because men are never presented as the evil boss. Have you seen American Psycho? Wall Street? In most movies, men in positions of power are presented as bumbling, unstable or outright psychotic. Look at the film Horrible Bosses, Kevin Spacey is a rage fueled psychopath, Colin Farrell is a sadistic moron and the worse Jennifer Aniston gets is being a sexually harassing nympho. Meanwhile the last 10 years have given us plenty of women in both film and television holding positions of power and shown to be strong, intelligent and morally centered.

[@mohitsahar2091]

The content writer and presenter of the video is a women.

[@pn7134]

Can you give me some examples of movies with good girl bosses?

[@StephenLeGresley]

@@mohitsahar2091 And?

[@mohitsahar2091]

@@pn7134 Not necessarily the Girl Bosses but Julia Roberts in Notting Hill marries a regular guy, A Hollywood big shot is powerful enough , Hatthaway in The Intern and Monica in Friends was so rookie she had to belie to fire him so that her staff take her seriously. But all these women were level headed and had their feet on ground despite success.

[@mohitsahar2091]

@@StephenLeGresleyA real life example, Malala Yusufzai was shot in head by Taliban because she preached Women Education, Equality and shunned the traditional Viel dress that is forced on Muslim women. After she recovered, She received quiet a lot of grants and allowances to travel across the world and preach the importance of girl education. She was granted to study in Oxford UK and later awarded Noble prize. After her big stunt was a success She has simply refused to speak about Pakistani army attacks on Balochistan. The people there refused to be the part of Pakistan because the government is involved with the terrorists and funds them to dispatch drugs and weapons to mount attack countries who refuses to heed to the idea of islamist Supremacy ,Pakistan army has turned entire city to a dungeon. Killed nearly all the men's and have constantly raped the women there. Denying them the civil and educational rights that Malala preached. It's simple fact. She stopped protesting just because the terror groups became strong and gained absolute power in her nation. There was a time she lead everyone to believe that under her shadow every girl seeking help would receive it and now she stepped down. Married happily and forgotten her purpose, leaving behind the girls who rose while idolising her to Fend for Themselves. Faithless is he /She who changes the path when Road darkens.

[@clairekim2525]

I don’t see Shiv as any kind of “villain” in the narrative of Succession though. She serves more of a protagonist role (as much as there are protagonists in an ensemble show), and similar to the other protagonists she is always sympathetic even when she’s acting as an antagonist to other characters’ stories. Kendall, Roman, Tom, Greg… they’re all antagonists to other characters as well, and I don’t think that makes them less of a hero in their own story. I definitely don’t think the text of the show gives any reason to suggest that Shiv is less sympathetic than other characters (and in my personal opinion she’s the MOST tragic along with Kendall).

[@sandramilfort9261]

Working girls was my favorite movie!

[@khaleesi-3946]

The problem isn’t that there’s too many girl boss villains, it’s that y’all portray them as such. Dany wasn’t a villain until d&d decided to half-ass the last season for a shot at star wars and it gave her haters (including this channel) an excuse to call her one.

[@TheFFilipp]

Why is Daenerys in the thumbnail? Yall will do anything for clout 😤😫

[@cinthyarosas8575]

Ok, but Khaleesi shouldn't be here

[@serniebanders2858]

Don’t bring Shiv Roy or Secession into this

[@rachellolxx6534]

I have had horrible female bosses and coworkers over the years and I think these portrayals of girl boss villains are great and should be talked about. Just because she is a woman doesn’t mean she can’t be a villain. Women can be mean and conniving just as much as men. And they don’t need a sob back story, she can be mean just to be mean. Not just because of the system or how she is perceived that has made her this way. I don’t agree with this analysis of the trope being over saturated or not well rounded enough. When you get a boss (of any gender) that just wants to make you feel bad to complete their day, you’ll understand that some of these roles are necessary. Sometimes the take can have such annoying Takes on things. But look at the narrators and their merchandise, that explains a lot of these videos.

[@tvariuness]

just another scenario where women are getting the same treatment as men but suddenly equality is also misogynistic.

[@eiwhaz-tina6528]

I don't know if Shiv enters the Girl boss trope tho. She wants to appear as that, but she is fake since she never followed a career path, and since she has no experience, her father constantly belittles her. As he does with her brothers. She is just a rich kid that thinks has the right to the throne of CEO.

[@lunabetul9590]

Real girlboss was cute and not a villain.

[@DeePeeZee]

Women aren't always these Saint like perfect human beings without any flaws. Sometimes women are mean, sometimes women are calculating and cunning.

[@MisterTutor2010]

Elizabeth Holmes is in inspiration to little girls aspiring to a career in white collar crime :)

[@youtubewontletmetypeagoodu8128]

I don’t think Ursula counts. She’s like scar or any other Disney villain who wants power.

[@thasthar]

I agree

[@elisez478]

Yes. Wasting away to practically nothing; banished, exiled and practically starving…

[@popkultureguru1596]

@@elisez478 lmfaooo yass 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾😭😭😭

[@deannas2778]

Yeah I think in the original story she wasn't even really a villain she just like yeah magic has a price bro.

[@DuchessChau]

yes! Ursala could transform into whatever, and she chose to look like that. She was just doing what sea witches do, and Ariel decided that the love of a men she saw once was worth everything.

[@FabalociousDee]

Girlbosses are just bosses. Simple as. You get good ones and you get bad ones, and the focus on womanhood as a minus is absolutely misogyny to my mind. But it'll always be like that.

[@singularity___]

This, 100%. A lot of people seem to love this idea of holding women to higher account for engaging in the same behaviors that men have for a long, long ass time. Not that those behaviors are ok at all, but they're not somehow more heinous just because it's a women that's the one being shitty.

[@CaraMarie13]

@@singularity___ i know. Like i kept thinking about how women are expected to be different from the man just on the fact that they are women. Yes, women are going to have to put in the majority of the work (unfortunately) to move progress along and am sure many of the negative reactions towards women who attempt to get in power by distorting the messages advocate groups use is justified. But at the end of the day, most of that negative reaction is due to the character being a women in power, period. And the gleeful takedown and celebration of the fall of these women is just a disgusting as the actions of those characters.

[@FabalociousDee]

@@singularity___ Holding the marginalised to a higher standard of behaviour is easy when our entire movement was about fighting for inclusion in the first place. In other words, it's easier to attack us for hypocrisy because without inclusion, there would be no girl bosses. And let's be clear - calling out the hypocrisy in girlbosses is absolutely strategic and designed to clip their wings and strongarm the competition, not hold anyone morally accountable. It also makes it easier for men to accuse women of trying to turn everything into a gynocracy, because that's exactly what they HAVE done (turn this world into an androcracy) in our place.

[@s.g.2244]

Go off Queen! Preach!

[@idontevenhaveapla7224]

@Clever name ....& yet the consequences for women are disproportionate. You're willingly missing the point now.

[@TheLeah2344]

At my first office job, my boss was a girl boss villain. She threatened to make sure I never get hired again all because I defended myself when my paycheck was short even though I worked 40 hours. I reported her to HR and quit after she threatened me.

[@AxxLAfriku]

Please stop giving me mean comments. My mother reads the comments I get and she cries a lot because of it. Please be nice, dear bla

[@KSP30]

Wow smh I’ve dealt with my share of girlbosses it’s sad but the mysogyny is real smh

[@ebleh59]

@@AxxLAfriku what the fuck are you on about

[@thvf2381]

@@KSP30 criticizing a female doesn't always equate with misogyny

[@TheLeah2344]

@@KSP30 First of all I’m a woman and second of all she was wrong and there was nothing wrong with me criticizing her. She literally threatened me and yet you still emphasize with her.

[@Hallows4]

Miranda Priestly is definitely a Girlboss (perhaps the quintessential version as she predated the label), but she’s not a villain because of it. Unlike more recent iterations, she never had any pretensions towards feminism and was basically an equal opportunity abuser. The fact that Emily and so many other female employees were so enthralled with her despite the toxic work environment shows just how misleading an image powerful people can project.

[@verakukic243]

How is being exploitive over your assistants and abusing the power, "not being a villain"? Andy is getting paid from the publishing company. Not directly from Miranda, who is also a worker. Andy's job is to be an assistant from 9 to 5. Miranda makes her book private flights after working hours and buy stuff for her daughters after hours. That is clearly mobbing and violation. Miranda is also not that great at her job, she is constantly overspending. She shouldn't be getting away with it just because she is female. My mum passed away very, very recently, and she is the owner of one of the best nursing homes for the elderly. I'm taking her job, not only am I a "girl boss", I also happen to be the youngest person there. And I'd never act the way Miranda does!

[@Hallows4]

@@verakukic243 This video is specifically talking about the "Girlboss Villain", not the straight-up "Girlboss" (there's definitely overlap but if you look at The Take's video on the latter, you'll see they're not quite the same trope). What's more prevalent in the Villain variety is that they employ feminist/progressive rhetoric to make themselves seem better than they actually are. I'm saying that Miranda doesn't quite fit that mold because she never displays any overtly feminist qualities or inclinations. The employee's gender is of no consequence to her; if they can't keep up, they're let go. It has been argued by some that she is the villain of DWP, but she doesn't really fit the Villain variant of the Girlboss as presented here.

[@lordj3793]

It was interesting how Thatcher ignored her daughter and adored her son because his toxic traits were seen as strength and her daughter she saw as weak.

[@sammyvictors2603]

Thatcher definitely was something of a self-misogynist.

[@rachaelerin1]

Ursula is not a “girl boss”. She lives in a cave with some cursed shrimp and eels…she’s not the queen of a rival kingdom. Does not make any sense whatsoever.

[@judeconnor-macintyre9874]

Girl Boss is a mood.

[@greywolf7577]

@@judeconnor-macintyre9874 If that were true, then any ambitious female villain could be called a girl boss, which is way too broad of a definition.

[@judeconnor-macintyre9874]

@@greywolf7577 You know it when you see it.

[@oliviagangi1123]

Sad that Princess Carolyn from Bojack Horseman didn’t get a mention in this. The Girl Boss that got it all in the end. Judah fell in love with her BECAUSE of her drive. Wanted to see your take on that.

[@pierrefrancois7396]

True, but she is more of a protagonist girl boss rather than a antagonist

[@thakatspajamaz]

“Vilifying success is harmful” look, say it’s bad to only point it toward women, but we should always, ALWAYS be critical of “success” as defined under exploitative capitalism. It will almost always be based on the cuttthroat stepping over others.

[@micow9951]

Daenerys didn't free slaves to gain power , Jorah and Sir Barriston told her she could storm kingslanding by surprise but she refused in order to free slaves and later when she had the chance to go to westeros she refused she decided to stay in Mereen to prevent the return of slavery a decision which wasn't beneficial for her , in the 6 or 7 first seasons Daenerys was portrayed as brutal when she thinks she's right , she has a rigid moral compass and a naive view of the world but a lot of her actions are for what she believes is morally righteous ( although the righteousness of that morality is questionable ) and not for self benefit , she does free the unsullied knowing they'll join her but she gave them a choice and she would've freed them even if she knew they would want to leave , the awful writing in the last few seasons causes a lot of contradictions , Daenerys is a character that is naturally good but naive and hot headed she lived in a savage environment so she adapted and she was targeted from birth so she had a vengeful part to her , her descent into villainy is very logical but it was horribly executed

[@treacherousjslither6920]

Not only that but she chose to help defend the north from the zombies instead of taking kings landing.

[@isabellanajera]

I can't avoid to see Daenery has a messianic attitude. White Savior complex

[@RoseofSeattle]

@@isabellanajera Dany is not white, the actress is. whiteness doesn't exist in her fictional world, she is Valyrian a fake race. Also...did you forget that the winners of the throne were also white actors/actresses 🤣 obviously the show wasn't commenting on race. Her character was a s*x trafficking victim that turns crazy and evil to make evil dudes feel ok with hurting women. It's just misogyny. Sorry.

[@daeneryseilish]

@@isabellanajera so she should’ve just done nothing then? since she’s such a “white savior”, should she have just let the slavery continue?

[@mariapdr3261]

@@isabellanajeraThe thing is SHE is a messianic figure in the books. There are prophecies that play a major a role in the story about The Prince That Was Promised and Azor Ahai and they talk about the one needed to fight against the Long Night and among the specific traits mentioned is bringing back dragons. She very much fits the mold of the prophetic savior in the face of this oncoming ancient evil, the thing is she’s not the only one who does. Also, the term white savior is used for her because of scenes in the show with her freeing the slaves but in the books slavery in Slaver’s Bay followed the pattern of Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece with many slaves being from Europe. The reason this wasn’t properly reflected in the show is that they filmed on location in Morocco and most of the people playing slaves were extras from the area and therefore couldn’t reflect the diversity that is actually in the books were many would be white. In fact, it is made explicit that the Lysene prefer white slaves with Valyrian features and Doreah actually somewhat resembled Dany in the books.

[@realSimoneCherie]

I don't think the portrayal of girl boss villains is one-dimensional. I think audiences are biased toward men in these sorts of roles. Similar to how "likable sociopaths" like Dexter and Joe are fan favorites, but Amy Dunne and Love are vehemently despised.

[@idontevenhaveapla7224]

Agreed.

[@julietteangeli]

This makes me think of a video I started watching (I didn't finish it) about Emily in Paris in which the (male) KZbinr referred to her as "the most unlikable character" from the entire tv year. I mean, there is valid criticism to be made about that character and that show, but that seemed a BIT extreme.

[@suziepatz7385]

I like Amy Dunne and Love! There's a lot to admire in their dedication to the cause :)

[@minuki.gaming]

I agree, but Love definitely received a positive response online this season.

[@compequiet0584]

And...Cersei Lannister. Daenerys Targaryen.

[@ashleightompkins3200]

I'd love to see a video on the 'Monster-in-Law' trope where mother and father in law's are villified

[@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254]

I love Never Have I Ever and The Babysitters Club for showcasing healthy in-law relationships

[@mewesquirrel6720]

Not much father in laws🤔

[@ashleightompkins3200]

@@mewesquirrel6720 There's the over-protective father who loathes the potential male partner on sight and does everything from intimidate to threaten him.

[@mewesquirrel6720]

@@ashleightompkins3200 oh yeah like that movie with Steve Martin

[@shannonceleste5557]

Father of the Bride!

[@cbpd89]

I suspect the whole "girl boss who sacrificed her domestic happiness for her career" trope is written by men...men who themselves pursued a career to the extent that they neglected their relationships and then their partner left. Overwork isn't aspirational, it's exploitation. Let's not act like giving up all relationship, family, and friendship to spend all their time at work is a path to happiness. You can have a good career and good relationships if you aren't being worked like an inhuman robot.

[@sarahlelys9268]

Conversely, I find myself irritated at how many romcoms show us that all career women are unhappy (even if they have a boyfriend, a good salary, and a good job that isn't exploitative) and that true happiness is in returning home in the countryside to be with a man they've met there and quitting the job that they liked. Some movies do a better job than others, by showing their jobs as actually soul-sucking and unfulfilling, but the recurrence of this motif that combines romance + quitting the career you've worked hard for somehow worries me. Not because this isn't a valid choice to make in real life, but because it makes it look like there's something fundamentally wrong with having a career, rather than showing that the issue actually comes from a deeper social problem. In combination with what you've said, it seems like in the writers' imagination, the career woman has to abandon all hopes of having anything in her life besides her career, but this is ultimately unfulfilling and condemns them to unhappiness, and the only way to find happiness is to quit entirely. You can have one or the other but not both, and having a career always seems to make women lonely and embittered. I think there should be a lot more nuance to it than that. The problem of overworking at the sake of domestic happiness that you mentioned, for example, is a very real issue and it should actually be portrayed as a systemic issue (which it is) rather than a personal choice exclusive to women and romantic in nature. Instead, we've got that fantasy of "work versus happiness" that reinforces the idea that you can't have both, that you have to choose, and that this choice will determine whether you're a good person or not; it also presents a very warped universal idea of what happiness is, I think.

[@cbpd89]

Yes! Exactly! It's a dumb false dichotomy. My mom loved her job and was GREAT at it and she still had strong relationships, bonds with kids and grandkids, friends, parents, spouse. It isn't either or and it is super weird that in every movie that is the choice women have: either have relationships or have a job.

[@HienPham-ow5ky]

@@cbpd89 i agree with you 💯👍

[@driftingdruid]

Preach \\o//

[@PokhrajRoy.]

I love how the fact that 1 in 5 CEOs are Psychopaths is a verified fact. Explains so much.

[@ryanlazarus3381]

That’s not a verified fact. One study said that. Other studies show much higher rates among executives than the general population but far below 1 in 5.

[@sugaredoleander409]

that is NOT a verified fact. psychopathy has not been an actual diagnosis for DECADES.

[@lakouk1901]

psychopaty really exists?

[@sugaredoleander409]

@@lakouk1901 as far as the field of psychology is concerned, it literally doesn't. what you mean is ASPD, that exists.

[@lakouk1901]

@@sugaredoleander409 ASPD?

[@poposterous236]

another example of "we need more diversity" not "we need more diversity in hastily written, forgettable characters"

[@witchplease9695]

@Christian Ogara really, just the Black characters? Maybe the ones in the shitty media you consume. That only applies to the characters written by whites because the Black characters in the fandoms I’m in (which are led by POC) are well written and beloved. In general, white people dont write good Black characters and the majority of whites will only consume media that is created by whites, so they assume every Black character is bad when that’s not true.

[@DaroriDerEinzige]

@@witchplease9695 idk, the "diverse" writtin' team behind the Disney Star Wars Movies or those involved at the TheWitcher Netflix Show don't really support your tale here. Also, the critique against Luther (mainly from people from the USA, which is funny in consideration that it literally is based in England ...) does rather indicate that some "POC's" at least are pretty trapped in their own stereotypical thinking. I mean, why should a darkskinned British Citizen still have to have an special accent or has to favour certain non-british foods? Some of them comin' from families which are livin' for over 100 years in Europe. European Cultures are - in contrast to a sort of "US American Culture" which basically rarely exists on its own - pretty rich. There are German decendencs in Russia today which probably don't even really think about "Oh, yeah, my Grandgrandmother was actually German.", same goes for spanish people in Scotland. But anyway, the issue is often that "diversity" isn't brought to the table to actually depict diversity or something - It's just there to get your Money. I mean, I personally don't really care as long as the Actor can convince me of his acting skills - but as soon as it doesn't feel "natural" anymore the show has to have alot of other things goin' for it. A good example for diversity casting would be probably Foundation or also The Expanse - Yet both Series have the benefit of bein' SciFi Series in which it is pretty easy to cast more diverse without even lookin' for diversity; just look for certain types (bigger/smaller/more charismatic/rather shy etc) and see which actors are most suitable for the job because nobody can question in the year X anything. Well, Disney at least was even able to fail in a SciFi Setting though.

[@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024]

@@witchplease9695 What black characters are you talking about?

[@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024]

@@DaroriDerEinzige you make no sense.

[@DaroriDerEinzige]

@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024 I actually do, you just don't grasp the meaning of what I've commented. Yet instead of askin' you chose that. Not really clever ^^

[@sohndustin]

I think this is how people see Hillary Clinton. She chose to stand by Bill through his allegations of sexual misconduct and helped destroy the reputation of his victims, and she continued to play the game until she had the opportunity to become president and pushed the idea of progress and feminism to her benefit. And although she would've been more competent than Trump, a centrist Democrat who plays the game wouldn't have changed a thing in the political lanscape. A career driven by ego.

[@PokhrajRoy.]

Gillian Anderson and Meryl Streep have portrayed Margaret Thatcher brilliantly in ‘The Crown’ and ‘The Iron Lady’ respectively.

[@neuralmute]

"The Crown" really put my lifelong crush on Gillian Anderson to the test - Thatcher was such a horrible person, and she played her SO well!

[@PokhrajRoy.]

@@neuralmute Yes. No arguments there.

[@AwakenWithDanielleGray]

Now I know why I carry around imposter syndrome, as a female business owner with ambitious ideas, creativity, and a ton of goals. Making women seem cold as a girlboss isn't right. We as females are so much more than just a villan. We are so difficult and well rounded, and there is nothing wrong with being ambitious.

[@kylejcool]

Terrible to work for. Girl boss is herw to take over never to take part. Never to help men. That would be the antithesis of "the future is female"

[@kylejcool]

Terrible to work for. Girl boss is here to take over never to take part. Never to help men. That would be the antithesis of "the future is female", 15 yeara of dozens of girl bosses. Every one 100% in it for 100% them only. The worst narcs in the work place every time

[@nataliaalfonso2662]

@@kylejcool shut up.

[@nataliaalfonso2662]

@Mohlakala Tleane that’s not true at all.

[@HienPham-ow5ky]

I agree with this 💯

[@alexandriadanyelle5406]

I’m gonna play devil’s advocate and say this trope is pretty spot on in regards to the reality of succeeding in a capitalist society like the United States, you have to participate (actively and passively) in systems of oppression to do well financially. And a lot of women, white and not white, but for this video in particular white, straddle the fence of between being a survivor and enabler of the system. I don’t consider this trope anti-woman as much as I do anti-capitalism. What does it say about us that we can survive horrible instances of racism and sexism to only turn around and enable it to make a buck.

[@shannonschwartz7011]

WELL SAID 👏👏👏

[@laurellee1435]

Yes. I think the thing is it's difficult to avoid being seen as a "cautionary tale" whilst still showing the reality of the impact of patriarchy on female bosses. Because it's true that most successful women feel the need to choose between work and family. It's true that many male partners don't like having a partner who is more successful than they or, or even one who is really into a career or hobby to the extent of investing time in that over spending time with a partner. It's true that many women feel like they have to act more masculine to succeed or be stricter and less friendly than male bosses in order to be taken seriously and not patronised, despite the fact that they'll be seen as a bitch even just for acting the same as a male boss might be respected for. Yes it's a problem that it's portrayed that women in power are trading aspects of femininity and that they're incomplete and unhappy without these, but at the same time many aspects are the reality. For example as well, the disgraced female CEO, in a movie where we look at the human beings of course we focus on the fall of the human CEO rather than the company because we have watched the people in the company make the decisions. It's the press who create the problem of treating female disgraced CEOs differently from male CEOs. It would be strange if a movie or TV show despite usually putting a human face on the goings-on of a company (even to the point of over simplifying how things go wrong in a big business as its not usually just one person being corrupt) suddenly distanced itself when there's a female boss and was just like "oh the company just fell apart with a corruption scandal somehow" as if it's a news report looking in at something it can't see.

[@kholoudkandil5878]

absolutely agree

[@s.g.2244]

I don't think society has maintained that delineation. I wish it did, honestly. We certainly saw that in previous instances of backlash against the PR Capitalist companies touting BLM & LBQT in their mission statements that were in fact, PR bandaids overwork cultures absent of those same values...But companies touting the future is female? We attack gender(female), the individual, and their success. I've heard one too many Gen Z'rs attack successful women they disagree with as girl bosses. It's mis-used very liberally now.

[@tp2005]

Agreed. To be frank, I don't think the humanization of the "girlboss" figure is a worthwhile endeavor if we truly understand how evil capitalism is. It's talking out of both sides of your mouth to claim that you understand capitalism is an inherently evil system that requires corruption to succeed in, while also saying women shouldn't be critiqued for finding success in it. These are two diametrically opposed stances and it has to be one or the other. You can't be anti-capitalist while also making any space for nuance with the "girlboss." The takeaway in this video should've been that greater scrutiny needs to be on men's roles in capitalism but it just ended up being an apologist piece for corrupt women. It felt like the usual, vapid white feminist take while trying to claim a more "progressive" slant. Completely missed the mark.

[@smarty2985]

Okay but just let women have our villains. I love them. I love a girlboss villain. I love a woman who displays every character trope male villains get applauded for. There aren't that many female villains who aren't hyper sexualised and the girlboss villains is one of the few to me who isn't. Let us have her.

[@idontevenhaveapla7224]

But people love those "complex male villains" more & actively hate women in similar roles

[@suoutubez19]

Did you even listen to the video before rushing to comment? They’re not saying anything negative about these characters. And who are you asking to “let us” have these characters? the ladies who work at The Take?

[@arjunmanoj2155]

@@idontevenhaveapla7224 Didn't most people love Emma Thompson in Cruella though? And Meryl Streep in Devil Wears Prada? Rosamund Pike's character Amy from "Gone Girl" too. Most people thought Cersei Lannister was an INCREDIBLE character as well. There are definitely ways to make cool, badass "complex female villains".

[@neuralmute]

@@arjunmanoj2155 True - Amy Dunne and Cercei Lannister are two of my all time favourite villains, and I get out the popcorn whenever Meryl Streep pulls out the evil, whether it's as Miranda Priestly or Margaret Thatcher, (who I loathed in reality)! The problem is that we're still often drowned out by the chorus of (mostly) male voices who feel threatened by complex, interesting female villains who aren't just eye candy.

[@driftingdruid]

you say as we watch 1988's Working Girl villain-girlboss hypersexualize herself for a "merge" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[@marcelluswilliams4083]

I agree that powerful women are demonized. But there are a lot of girlboss villains that aren’t one-dimensional. Blair Waldorf, Chanel Oberlin, Sue Sylvester, even Miranda Presley are iconic; and dynamic characters. They may face consequences for their actions sporadically, but their villainy is catered to and supported in their respective worlds. I feel the influx of the girlboss villain has more to do with this particular moment in time. Capitalism and whiteness are being rightfully critiqued. White women have played a much larger role in oppression than most people like to admit or believe. And I think these characters are simply a necessary kind of reckoning. The girlboss character in Shrill was evil not because she had power, but because she was a classist gatekeeper. Her character was written by Aidy Bryant to highlight the blindspots women like her have; and how it creates a harmful environment, and brand of feminism that’s widely accepted and rarely scrutinized. I believe it is possible to critique a woman (or type of woman) without critiquing all women.

[@palmtreesandmoonbeams]

Wow, you had a platform to speak on a women's issue & your main point is "women are the oppressors". The fact that you chose "white women" doesn't matter. You still chose to blame women. Blame a woman...any woman. We've heard this statement before, in the eighties it was black women & asian women are also under attack now. Throughout history, men have always put blame on women when they start to fear our power. They just change which race of women they blame, but it's ALWAYS a woman. You are SO transparent, take your misogyny elsewhere.

[@aylenvillarreal5439]

Fifteen seconds into the video: yeah, it is misogynistic. I had that conversations with my mum when I was 15. By that time, I noticed that there was something wrong with what was I being fed with but I couldn't name it. So I asked her "Why is she bad, though? Why women like this are always bad? I don't understand" And she answered me exactly this (but in Spanish): "Because they want to make you believe that women when in a position of power turn wicked. More like, 'women with power are always wicked'." The conversation then went on hours about how this is used to manipulate us into choosing and accepting ourselves positions down the heriarchy or of submission, and how men feel threathened by capable and independent women... Thanks mom. That was one of the most important conversations I had when growing up. My mum was a housewife at that time (now she still is, but she is also a yoga teacher and has a separate bussiness. Before that period she was a kindergarden teacher) while my grandma was a bussinesswoman (she had all types of bussiness, really, now she is retired, but her curriculum at this point is unbelievable), and both have been amaizing examples of empowered independent women I still look up to. Edit: in Spanish because I don't trust my translation: "Porque te quieren hacer creer que cuando la mujer esta en una posicion de poder se vuelve mala. O mas bien, 'las mujeres con poder son siempre malas'."

[@palmtreesandmoonbeams]

Wow, smart mom. It's true, the minute a woman gets power, she automatically gets the label of wicked. This is clearly an attempt at oppressing women and the idea that women in power are any different than men in power.

[@aylenvillarreal5439]

@@palmtreesandmoonbeams Yes, to me that was one of the moments in which I really feel that "Yeah, mum knows it all" 😂.

[@skunkrat01]

I love your mum

[@aylenvillarreal5439]

@@skunkrat01 haha, yes I love her too xD. During that time all friday nights were movie nights, and we would talk about them. Looking back, that was quite a genius move to make our family spend time together and trigger discussions about anything.

[@greywolf7577]

Movies show some male bosses as evil, but that doesn't mean that it is trying to teach that all men will be evil if they become bosses. Having female bosses also be evil sometimes shows that men and women are the same in this regard.

[@lestervalentin5418]

Princess Carolyn from Bojack Horseman would have been perfect for this video. She's cunning, ruthless, & manipulative, but also a very caring & loving person with a compulsive need to take care of the people around her. It's actually worth-noting as well how patient she is with her assistants even when they're comically incompetent in contrast to her, and even found sympathy for them & helped them win against the bosses when they did that strike.

[@JDR1991]

I love the way the the girl boss trope was portrayed in the character of Jacqueline on The Bold Type. Jacqueline actually worked to not only be successful at her job, but she helped her female employees learn and grow into successful women, even going so far as having one of the women she mentored take over her company by the end of the series. She also always had her employees’ backs when things got tough and she did her best to set an example of showing what a good leader should do for her employees. Whenever someone messed up, she treated with grace and just helped them fix the problem, even putting her all into it occasionally. It was the most positive portrayal that I’ve ever seen of a girlboss in media.

[@vidhyapfeifer558]

I was going through the comments to see if somebody mentioned The Bold Type, because yes, all of this, thank you! I was so positively surprised when she was revealed as a supportive and nurturing role model, respected not feared! Jacqueline is an amazing character and I'm so thankful for the show for this kind of portrayal.

[@Hengoed]

Is shiv a villian? I thought she was kinda of neutral since she flip flops all the time

[@Nothanku_]

Everyone in Succession is kind of a villain

[@timothyo718]

She is really cruel towards Tom. You kinda root for him to betray her.

[@GM-vr4eb]

Oh come on Daenerys wasn't some tyrant in waiting. d+D just butchered her. Also I completely agree with the misogynist lens of the takedown of girlboss villains. In my country a deputy chief justice was pushed to resign and vilified for pinching a guard's nose at a security check and telling him "know people". Meanwhile there's a governor who's still in office yet he was involved in the murder of his pregnant mistress and even said he'll run for president. An MP is still in office after shooting a DJ in the neck in point blank range. The DJ survived but he's paralysed.

[@treacherousjslither6920]

That's terrible

[@ianvera4299]

Nah she was a tyrant

[@GM-vr4eb]

@@ianvera4299 cool

[@ianvera4299]

@@GM-vr4eb 😉

[@pratikpendse4849]

Say what you may, but Miranda Preistly will forever be one of the most iconic bosses. Period. Her character was so nuanced and layered, with a perfect hint of guarded humanity. Meryl Streep ate that role like nobody’s business 🔥 Class act!

[@popkultureguru1596]

I think this is why we need more 3 dimensional Female girl bosses. A lot of the time women have to have to shed a lot of traditional feminine Stereotypes/qualities in order to make it in the corporate world that is male dominated. But like the popular quote says " The masters tools can't break down the master's house" You being cut throat like the men doesnt excuse terrible behavior. So instead of trying to exist in a man's world how about we make an environment where women and all minorities don't have to View success through a male /white lens.

[@HienPham-ow5ky]

I agree with this 💯👍

[@driftingdruid]

( standing ovation )

[@greywolf7577]

Being white and male doesn't necessarily mean Capitalistic. The Russian leaders were white and male and they became Communist. If the world had formed with minorities in control, it likely would be just as Capitalistic as it is today.

[@blinkspyblackpink4613]

The Daenerys' storyline was BUTCHERED by the writers though

[@Rampala]

That's the point of this video, though, that most of these girl bosses have been shafted by bad writing, usually by men.

[@ryanlazarus3381]

The storyline was great. Dany made it clear early on that she was a monster in waiting. Audience fell in love with her like they do charismatic politicians and then act surprised when they turn out to be a monster.

[@treatpeoplewithkindness2955]

Disagree I am a feminist however Danny's character was very clear it would turn out as evil, however the way that it was executed was horrible. Since the beginning we root for her because she was the underdog, however she was a conquer and she make it very clear that you are on her side or you are the enemy. Also since the beginning it was told many times the tendency of the members of her family to become "crazy", I mean they practice incest so not suprised with that thing. For me her story represent how power can corrupt people, for example her story is very similar to a lot of dictators, that start following a good cause and end it up being power hungry. Indeed Dany is not exactly bad so her character is so complex for that reason, in her point of view she is doing the correct things however for other she was the bad one. So the clues were since the beggining but the way they represented felt rush and stupid.

[@claranguematio6717]

The thing I notice here is that some these characters are written by men and dicussed by men hence the lack of perceived humanity . A good example of that is how Franck and Claire Underwood were perceived differently while they exhibit the same traits of ruthlessness and ambition .

[@HienPham-ow5ky]

I agree with this 💯👍

[@greywolf7577]

Men can write women to have perceived humanity. Do you think that if a woman wrote a man, he wouldn't have perceived humanity?

[@gombocdimensional9050]

@@greywolf7577 a man can but its kind of rare or if they try they aren't very good at it.

[@Janperday]

also in the past year I've seen at least 4 pieces of media with a girl boss villain who's arc went exactly like this: 1. girlboss enters and is respected 2. girlboss makes strong and proactive decisions that are fair, but slightly disagreeable to some people 3. girlboss isn't so respected anymore 4. community does everything to try to humiliate girlboss 5. girlboss is humiliated, 6. but then protagonist finds out about her childish/infertility/pregnancy 7. girlboss undergoes major character viewpoint because of this revelation. Now associated with desperate motherhood, girlboss is partly redeemed, but only if she promises to now be a background character forever. Examples just now from the top of my head: Holly from sex education, Alicia Sierra from la casa de papel, Nellie from the office, Jan from the office, Madeline from Emily in Paris, the list fucking goes on it’s hilarious Edit: I almost didn't want to watch that new movie don't look up because of this trope. like seriously? we haven't even HAD a female president yet but you think from all the roads this mockumentary could take, this one is the most realistic? Villainising a female president as a 'karen' before we've even had her? Watching the trailer I literally thought to myself wow they made the president female probably because we should vehemently despise the character and that only works when it's a "stuck up" woman in power.

[@nd9814]

I still think the final season of GoT was the most misogynistic thing I’ve ever seen. From justifying rape, To villafying all female leaders Truly despicable. I hate that shit with a passion. I’d rather eat my own shit than give HBO or Martin another dime.

[@jacobkakyoin6882]

Martin has some weird shit of his own when it comes to writing women, stuff that definitely deserves some eyeing in ways that go beyond 'he's writing a sexist world,' but let's be fair here. He basically stepped away and had nothing to do with the show for the entire back half of its run because he disagreed so hard with the shit job they'd started doing... The point where the writing really started taking uncomfortable left-turns and threw out the source material entirely. Benioff and Weiss and everyone who enabled them in those last seasons are the ones to blame for some of the most braindead and often misogynistic BS late GoT pulled out.

[@OcarinaSapphr-]

It was really sad that BookSansa’s compassion was seen as a liability, to swiftly shed- & that the character we saw during the Battle of the Blackwater just disappeared into the ether. I will always believe there _were_ ways to make Dany the villain, if that’s the endgame for her character (I’m thinking it might be) - but we needed *actual* progression, not a flipped switch in less than a single season, & some retroactive pointing out actions of previous seasons, after the fact- especially when the writers gave less of a stuff about continuity than those of us who were watching every season... Yara kinda simply exists as the lesbian/ bisexual titillation; there’s not a lot of conversation about what kind of a leader she’d be in Dany’s new world- we sort of know what kind of leader she is before then, because Theon spells it out at the Kingsmoot - she’s just _there_ at the faux Great Council- seemingly to spar with Arya, & *not* assert the Iron Islands’ independence at all. The less said about Dorne, the better... everyone forgets that Brienne is actually an heiress (including her) she’s the only child of the Lord of Tarth- & it’s never addressed... Cersei’s character just got boring- I think/ hope in the books, she’s gonna go nuclear- but in the show, after blowing up the Sept- she’s kind of just- there, ‘til she bites it- in the least satisfying manner imaginable...

[@TheMovieSequelDude49]

Martin really had nothing to do with the last season so he's not really deserving the blame for that.

[@danirahernandez383]

Princess Caroline (Bojack Horseman) she is a Girlboss who gets everything she wants, but she constantly is working for get it

[@kimcarragher5784]

The Boys was doing SO WELL for me w/ their girl boss narrative until the “plot twist” about the female politician. It left such a bad taste in my mouth, esp. since the audience consistently drew comparisons between her and AOC. It’s like this insidious notion that no woman attempting for power can be trusted w/ it (but of course men are Human™️ and so you’ve gotta go with the best man for the job even if he’s flawed)

[@TheMovieSequelDude49]

I don't believe that was the intention behind that decision. But for me, I'm waiting for Season 3 to put my judgement behind it since it's possible the character is more nuanced than what she seems. She might be blackmailed by Vought for example. I have enough respect for how the show is written to give them the benefit of the thought.

[@abibas3050]

No one attempting to gain power should be trusted, full stop. And as cool as AOC is, she still functions within the US political system making her susceptible to the same critiques

[@suburbantimewaster9620]

Starlight's a girlboss in season three. Actually more like a co-captain but still she's in a position of power and she's genuinely using it to try to reform The Seven. Only problem is Homelander doesn't like it and, after going on a rampage and getting a boost with white men over it, loses her power to the white man who lords it over her with his usual cruelty.

[@Lukasafer]

Wow...its almost like women can be awful people, too Can't portray that too much these days though

[@idontevenhaveapla7224]

Really? Are you really arguing that women have better representation than men?

[@witchplease9695]

Women have always been portrayed as capable of evil in media. Who are the biggest villains in most teen sitcoms? Mean girls.

[@pistolen87]

I don't expect women bosses to be better or different than male bosses. I expect them to have masculine traits, because that's what the business world demands. The rules of capitalism determines the behaviour, NOT the gender. Outside of her work I expect her to have a submissive househusband (think of Shiv and Tom in Succession), just like many powerful men wants a submissive housewife.

[@ClaireCraig]

totally agree

[@NessJr]

"Representation matters, we need more diversity" 10 minutes later "Oh, but not like THAT"

[@vins1979]

Bosses make for good villain, because the viewers identify themselves with less powerful characters, not with those who are on the top giving orders. It's all about criticizing power and rooting for the underdogs. A man boss is a villain. A woman boss is a "girlboss villain". A black boss is a black boss villain. Bosses are bossy and that's it.

[@vanessabogaert2104]

Everyone in Succession is a villain though.

[@pn7134]

Can someone name a female boss that is portrayed as a good person/ boss?

[@emmal2932]

Leslie Knope, Amy Santiago

[@mysteriiis]

Sir Integra Hellsing, human leader of the titular Hellsing vampire hunting organization. In world of vampires, vampire nazis, and wealthy mediocre white males; she's still the most intimidating person in the room.

[@idontevenhaveapla7224]

@@emmal2932 ....They're portrayed to be this extremely ocd figure tho. Not like actually complex neutral character. Not to mention they're shown to be looking upto men that are portrayed much more cold & neutral(& still likable). Amy is shown as a teacher's pet. They're not shown as sort of these "self-affirmed neutral complex" male characters that are liked by society....

[@julietteangeli]

Captain Janeway on Star Trek Voyager is one, I think.

[@medhavigupta6146]

Lucy Lu's character in Set it Up

[@skallywalla502]

Thank you for this expanded take on this trope. The way that *any* woman with power who's in the public is just *eviscerated* these days while men who commit much more egregious acts are defended and given a pass like "oh, he clearly had some issues which was why he was so abusive to some of his cast members; I hope he gets therapy" 2 steps forward; 1 back. 🙄

[@davidjones9325]

Bad characters that are female is not necessarily misogyny. Sometimes in story's, the villain is a female. Whenever someone plays the gender card in a situation like this, it trivializes the times actual misogyny occurs.

[@idontevenhaveapla7224]

This conversation is much more complex & nuanced than "not necessarily misogyny" & I hope you won't pretend that we actually have good representation of women in power compared to men. There's no reason why the (mostly) men who say & write these characters should get to decide whether they were misogynistic.

[@nataliaalfonso2662]

This is about hundreds and thousands of times when actual misogyny is occurring due to inadequate representation on screen.

[@st.parastoo]

Omg this video made so many bad points! Humans can be evil! Women are human! Therefore women can be evil! This video kind of suggests that if a woman morally corrupt is never really her fault! It’s such a cliché! I prefer a character that’s evil and opportunistic just because she is bad! Not because some evil male betrayed her and made her evil! They literally said in the beginning of the video that there are many real life cases of bad girl bosses! Don’t you think that’s could be a factor for why our entertainment is reflecting that!

[@Rampala]

The critique isn't that women can't be evil or villains, it's that many of these characters are poorly-written walking stereotypes. The issue isn't the type of character, it's the way (usually men) write them.

[@pn7134]

Did you even watch the video??

[@tajanisc]

Just my personal opinion but in recent years two of the few girlbosses I enjoyed seeing were The Boys’ Stormfront and Sex Education’s Hope. I find that interesting because out of the majority of prevalent girlbosses, they are arguably some of the worst. I feel it works because of the specific stories which they’re written in.

[@Chris-rg6nm]

How is Stormfront a girl boss? She's just a superhero/villian

[@issecret1]

@@Chris-rg6nm Stormfront is the girlbossiest of all girlbosses