The God Debate: Hitchens vs. D'Souza

"Two titans of the religious spectrum famed Atheist Christopher Hitchens and esteemed Catholic apologetic Dinesh D'Souza clash in public debate at the University of Notre Dame.
Sponsored in part by The College of Arts and Letters: The Henkels Lecturer Series, The Center for Philosophy of Religion and the Institute for Scholarship in the Liberal Arts."

[@itsme-mj9ic]

Just a friendly reminder to turn down the volume when you finish watching this.

[@piterpraker3399]

Thanks bro

[@eddieclark9802]

Wise counsel. 😎

[@nicolem.6936]

@@eddieclark9802ⁿ

[@quincyjagnow9324]

Thank you much

[@chrisdissident]

Lol.

[@superpartyheroes]

Who else is on here just to hear Hitchen's voice again? - We miss you Hitch!

[@debbieallen8396]

Every so often, I have to return to these videos - to recall and enjoy Hitchen's brilliance and tenacity again. I miss him. I miss every word he left unspoken.

[@Lalhmangaih-oj1ko]

​@@debbieallen8396 😂😂😂

[@fungusz_4292]

fr

[@hesham69]

Yup from the middle east and enjoy this gentleman just as much in fact I would rather watch this over the concert I m being dragged to tonight

[@itsnotthatserious9871]

Gone too soon; as most brilliance is 😢

[@prideofalion]

The irony of this debate is that D'Sousa's main argument is "prove it".

[@jackfrost90999]

Thats not irony, its one of the best arguments, neither atheism or any specific religion can be 100% proven, thats why we go based on the evidence we do have and the most reasonable conclusions that can be made from the evidence and that would make a creator/designer much more plausible than there not being a so called god, hitchens was much better than dawkins or harris but was still outclassed by the likes of craig william

[@prideofalion]

@@jackfrost90999 you just said in your own words religion can't be proven. So how is it not ironic? But you are right, we don't yet have those answers. So you are free to believe whatever you'd like. I wish you the best. But just for clarification, word of mouth and historical literature are not evidence.

[@jackfrost90999]

@@prideofalion your missing the point, the burden on proof isn't on the religious its on the atheists, unless your willing to concede that morality is completely subjective and majority rule should always trump any set of moral values

[@notsnape9414]

@@jackfrost90999 the burden of proof lies with the claimant. I hereby claim in the center of the universe there is an invisible cow. Prove that it doesn’t exist. See? Dont be stupid

[@kuuttinuutti4417]

@@jackfrost90999 the burden of proof is always on the one making the claim . the relogious make the claim ' there is a god ' , no matter what form or number he takes . to this an atheist can say ' prove it ' , which is valid because you have made the claim which is being questioned . it is not the questioners job to disprove your point

[@Jason-lw7tk]

Christopher Hitchens is incandescent. What a legend.

[@vhawk1951kl]

His body was briefly hence tthe ashes. dust to dust.

[@vhawk1951kl]

Was, the silly petulant attention seeking child has been dead for years

[@QuinnieMae]

That's a wonderful descriptor, Jason. _Incandescent_ is what he was. _Still is_ given all the work he put out that we are STILL the beneficiaries of so many years after his death. Hitch carries on.

[@cynicalsayonara7169]

He was light as a result of being heated? Oh wait, I'm supposed to pretend this is a part of my everyday vocabulary. Yes, he was passionate.

[@raycharles212]

@@vhawk1951klHis body was donated for research.

[@baileyayyy5085]

You guys should be careful with those audio levels theres a few parts of this where I can almost hear what they are saying

[@stillben]

sounded fine to me

[@shadowlands8490]

It was lowered to limit the magnitude of decibels ranging from the deafening hatred of God to severe snickering. Either way God waits for everyone who watched this video. He is literally waiting..

[@Tommybong710]

I could hear it fine

[@nledelnr]

Christianity has typically not wanted the truth to be heard.

[@baileyayyy5085]

@@nledelnr lmaoooooo

[@lolololololol369]

I like how Christians and athists can have an intellectual peaceful debate with no death threats

[@jayjay1415]

This is because neither is implying it should be "my way or the highway." Agreeing to disagree is a very simple concept. One may feel different than another about a topic but forcing one's ideology on another is where the problem lies. In America greed is so entrenched in our psyche we will alienate, imprison, or kill anyone that disagrees with us.

[@Mike93Gee]

Informal fallacy. They cannot, due to the the zealot nature of all dogmatic belief systems. Its only when you have Hitches vs D'souza or another qualified, other may everyone enjoy a real debate

[@mikec6733]

@@Mike93Gee Sorry, I just accidentally posted a comment @ you. It was a mistake. I deleted it. I'm old and not tech savvy.😔

[@Mike93Gee]

@@mikec6733 no worries. I enjoy how we have similar names by the way.

[@jonathansoko1085]

I personally dont even count Dinesh as a Christian, but he really dismantled Hitchens here. All Hitchens did hte entire time was say religion bad, he asserted the entire time

[@wRAAh]

10:40 "The greatest obligation that you have is to keep an open mind." Oh how people on and off campus have forgotten this. Or never even understood it.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY

[@JimBobJoeB0b]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363how fitting.

[@KK-fi6ms]

Yes. It is heartbreaking how so-called liberals of today, due to their own intolerance, have allowed the right wing to co-opt liberal pioneers like Hitchens and George Carlin.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

@@JimBobJoeB0b People underestimate hell, it is bad because it is separation from God. In a vision I was shown a perron who claimed to be Christian but started fornication (premarital sex), He died relatively young and went to hell forever (1 Cor 6:9). God’s holiness means He will not coexist with sinners forever therefore Repent (Luke 13:3) and have a relationship with Jesus.

[@Wopaapaa]

Like you said: “in a vision”😂

[@user-ez7yq6zg3h]

I had the great fortune of seeing Hitch in Philadelphia with my father back before Hitch was diagnosed with cancer. He is sorely missed. What a giant!

[@MegaDonzee]

Christopher Hitchens is missed, :(

[@Hardjosh]

Hitchens is an anti-theist who sees absolutely no benefits for religion, even though Christianity legitimately allowed his very freedom of speech to occur. Depressing, and stupid.

[@chardomania]

@@Hardjosh "Christianity legitimately allowed his very freedom of speech to occur." That sentiment is false, depressing and stupid.

[@ijulia08]

😂😂😂

[@jake-qn3tl]

Too bad Hitchens was dumb asf

[@lucaslovely]

Wow.. a debate at a university with two "controversial" speakers, in which both speakers take completely different stands but are civil and polite to eachother, don't scream over eachother or insult eachother, with no students screaming or chanting from the back calling somebody a racist/sexist or standing in front of the speakers with a sign disrupting the debate and being escorted out. I feel like I'm looking into an alternate reality.

[@jamesabernethy7896]

Definitely refreshing to see a passionate and all encompassing debate that is still civil and respectful. Contributors and audience. Though this specific of one is new to me, I have watched a several of these over the years but every so often i watch several in a go when i'm in the right mood. I keep thinking of the Catholacism one with Stephen Fry and Ann Widdicomb, that one's a bit more lively.

[@cowafungus8104]

I agree with that, but I don't agree about having anything to debate ABOUT. Conservatives have NOTHING in common with the SNIVELING CHILDREN aka democrats. There will be no "common ground". Our ONLY logical next step is COMPLETE & TOTAL POLITCAL & PHYSICAL SEPARATION.

[@jordanh865]

@@cowafungus8104 " I agree that civility is good but FCK THAT GUY" Cowafungus for president 2024... He has the right mentality to win the republican ticket! ;)

[@bexmac8136]

Can you imagine a presidential debate operating like this?

[@bexmac8136]

@@cowafungus8104 Conservatives can take Texas and Dems cans have have Florida. Those able to analyze individual topics based on merit rather than blind loyalty to political ideology and the people promoting job such uh hi can have the resulti

[@souloftheage]

Seems Notre Dame spends more in chapels than in microphones.

[@chinayo9022]

I mean clearly, I would suspect a chapel would cost more more

[@troyevitt2437]

it's named after LITERALLY "Notre Dame Cathedral". Notres gonna Dame.

[@fromeveryting29]

"Nadr Deim" as the Americans say.

[@43SHADOWLINK]

Looks like it's the same decision went with the teachers.

[@jmjaquinas7298]

@@troyevitt2437 Different Notre Dame

[@tomevans1507]

I love the fact that Dinesh and Christopher don't shake hands at the end of the debate. They hug each other.

[@COLORADODCN]

D’Souza was picking his pocket

[@spyglass3141]

It's gross Christopher touched him dinesh doesn't deserve the air he breathes.

[@xboy6373]

​@@spyglass3141 kid

[@SillyGoose2024]

Thatssssssss what u took away from this? That they hugged???????? Raise your bar off the floor.

[@MrZootles]

​@@COLORADODCN🤣

[@andrewhunter3831]

Hitchens is simply the best orator I've ever heard. Wish he was still here, explaining things like only he could.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY

[@georgedabrowski6900]

​@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 Horse puckey, old chap. Man invented God, but You'd better just live in fear of fire and brimstone if you leave the beaten path. A loving God would love and forgive everyone, but not a God created by man, who has to be in control and passes that attribute on to his creation. Join this Country Club and spend eternity in our fune surroundings. Join today. 🐸

[@Britishbandogge]

Plebeian ​@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363

[@CMcKay-82]

Prove god even exists. Then we can worry about all of those bizarre details. ​@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363

[@dhekwucieoejduf]

Hitches was a fraud and a snake oil salesman that could not come up with an original thought if it was staring him in the face. every single "argument" he made in this debate could have been written by a 13 year old. He was not able to answer a SINGLE ONE of disneshes questions in and goes on rambling about the virgin mary and mohammad. The man was a clown and died like the grifter he was. just look at 39 minutes. He didnt address a SINGLE POINT made by dinesg in his questioning. the guy is about as intelligent as a used car salesman.

[@ukphillip]

I hope in a 1000 years time someone still appreciates the magnificence of this gentleman.

[@Jay-ft3xh]

Hell be considered below average intelligence. But he will be recognized as being ahead of his time, sadly.

[@SeekerGoOn2013]

Which one?

[@leiluam]

@@Jay-ft3xh & only the white folk

[@philsymes]

@@leiluam Racist fool. 🙄

[@raymondparnell439]

Probable!

[@flukyoutube]

who else is watching this 10 years on and came down here for the comments

[@firebladetenn6633]

I’m watching this right now.

[@styx5293]

Me... picked apart the Christian speakers easily. So many holes in the explanation.

[@Juduh]

@@styx5293 try cross examined

[@S00mbre]

Watching ... for the 2nd time already!

[@Emily.Landry]

fr lol

[@JustinMarshallElias2]

That was kinda like watching a 6 year old debate his dad.

[@bbmtge]

That's because you suffer from hero worship.

[@wigligigly3375]

Who is the six year old and who is the dad?

[@forthehomies7043]

@@wigligigly3375 as much as I love hitchens, dinesh is his daddy

[@fjoa123]

But dad if I get a playstation, I swear i will get better grades!

[@Un1t276]

@@forthehomies7043 you’re only that because Dinesh is religious, and so are you. Watch the video again, but this time take off your rose tinted glasses.

[@jayantchaudhary4945]

ended more peacefully than it began. signs of intellect

[@W3RK1Nit]

come out from under your rock

[@wigligigly3375]

@@W3RK1Nit explain how he is under a rock and if he is why must he exit it

[@W3RK1Nit]

@@wigligigly3375 I find Dinesh's arguments quite shallow. So the 'signs of intellect' remark, especially in light of 2k donkeys (the comment is recent) is what I was criticizing. And while it was stated as a command, 'come out' was meant as more of a suggestion. Thanks for asking.

[@kojeto]

Drink every time Hitchens takes off and puts back on his glasses

[@bensmith5288]

Why?

[@Redrumkid818]

@@bensmith5288 why not ?

[@furiousinsects6386]

@@Redrumkid818 🤣🤣🤣

[@HDitzzDH]

Just tried it, currently writing this comment from the hospital. Fun challenge 👍

[@derp8575]

Milo does it.

[@copacetic6440]

9:40 is where you want to start.

[@funkmonk5921]

Thank u

Did this guy pass away

[@facebookcom-ej7dm]

Tha-hank you. Jezus, since when did debate introductions take 9-1/2 frickin ‘ minutes.

[@carolynslist6118]

Jay Quan Trolling yes he did

[@bartholomewlyons]

Thx. Tired of scrolling through

[@angelar3625]

Indeed , he was brilliant , unique , curageous , and so on and so forth .Miss him 😥

[@Hardjosh]

He's not unique. He's the average anti-theist with a bit of education in his background. He's not really that brilliant philosophically, but he's good with rhetoric.

[@NottherealLucifer]

​@@HardjoshIncorrect. He was absolutely unique, that's why there hasn't been another like him since his passing. "He's an average anti-theist" what you're misunderstanding there is that antitheists are just better informed than theists and even most atheists, so yes they tend to have a knowledge base similar to Hitchens', that doesn't make them all alike. Every single Christian who has ever debated religion is 100% exactly the same and has failed to counter any atheist argument, despite the fact we've been using those arguments for centuries.

[@Hardjosh]

@@NottherealLucifer "what you're misunderstanding there is that antitheists are just better informed than theists and even most atheists," Is that so? Prove it. "so yes they tend to have a knowledge base similar to Hitchens', that doesn't make them all alike" That's true. They are not all alike. Most are worse and more incompetent than atheists. "Every single Christian who has ever debated religion is 100% exactly the same and has failed to counter any atheist argument," That's a bold claim. Prove it. "despite the fact we've been using those arguments for centuries" Clearly counterargumentation has occured in the last several centuries, but anti-theists choose to ignore it.

[@aue82a]

@@Hardjosh Everything that Hitchens says , just goes straight past your bat.

[@philsymes]

"A grim pattern is visible in history: When religion is the ruling force in a society, it produces horror. The stronger the supernatural beliefs, the worse the inhumanity. A culture dominated by intense faith invariably is cruel to people who don't share the faith--and sometimes to many who do." James A. Haught

[@phildavenport4150]

Witness the horrific return to the Taliban way of life in Afghanistan.

[@philsymes]

@@phildavenport4150 Damn right Phil, Hitch was right, religion poisons everything. ☹️

[@phildavenport4150]

@@philsymes Humanity's worst side comes out when unspeakable atrocities are committed in the name of religion, even when the religion in particular preaches the opposite. Like how women are being once again battered back into the stone age by the Taliban.

[@FM-dm8xj]

stalin, mao, hitler, pol pot, kim jung il enter the chat.

[@timgonzales2891]

Fascinating. Except for communist countries have been known to outlaw religion outright. But Stalin was only responsible for like, 64 million dead. Religion is totally the bad guy

[@anope9053]

when d'souza says that science can't explain why humans are here, what our purpose is, he's begging the question. why assume in the first place that there has to be a universal purpose?

[@Dreson45]

Do you personally believe things can be right or wrong? Do you believe morality exists, or is it just some thing we create in our own consciousness?

[@anope9053]

@@Dreson45 i don't think morality can be fully objective. the feelings we get are from our natural tendencies to want to support the group, if that makes sense

[@Cajaquarius]

@@Dreson45 Thing we create based on our being a primate species and, thus, dependent on a group for survival. 500 years ago marrying off your 9-year-old daughter to a 47-year-old man so he could wreck her in bed was moral. In fact, we know pedophilia - as we now call it - was rampant in the ancient world. Children didn't have any value until very recently, when medical science made it so they could live more than 10% of the time. Even the Jewish part of the bible has rules for inspiring abortions in women. In times of old, warriors who invaded a land would put children to the sword under a certain age - not out of cruelty, but because the alternative was letting them starve and die, slowly. Today, if an army like the US Marines started summarily executing everyone under the age of 10 we would consider it immoral. We only consider Epstein a monster because we value children - had he been born 1000 years ago, he would have been normal.

[@angelicalicari8355]

@@Dreson45 Morality MUST be something "we create in our own consciousness" (and re-evaluate continuously) as a modern society, because the only alternative is to select an arbitrary set of rules written in the past and ignore any newfound evidence that says those rules are harmful. For example, to expand on the scenario given by Shrodinger's Douchebag, 500 years ago we may not have understood that intercourse and pregnancy are often seriously damaging to a 9-year-old's body. If we has previously decided that, in your words "things can be right or wrong", and we had chose the moral code that set age of consent at 9 years old, then our current lawmakers would have to ignore modern medical science and all the harm the old law was doing to 9-year-olds. What is the point of making scientific advancements if we can't adjust our conclusions as to what is moral, and if outdated codes of ethics prevent us from putting such advancements to use?

[@wolfthequarrelsome504]

A study of the natural world will quickly tell us that everything has a purpose. It's first principles.

[@evanlabrant5448]

Hitchens: "Everyone remembers what Laplace said to Napoleon when he produced his orrery" Me: "Oh yeah, I totally remember that, who DOESN'T remember that, right everyone?!" *nervous chuckle*

[@aaronwalters7911]

Oh ok lol lol

[@balimbula]

I think it is an Englishman’s attempt at dry humor. Of course no one remembers that.

[@ramigilneas9274]

I remembered.😂

[@theodoravellum4589]

“I don’t need it” 😆

[@ansfridaeyowulfsdottir8095]

_"I had no need of that hypothesis"._ But then, I'm a Brit. {:-:-:}

[@JesseColton]

"Its so ridiculous that Richard Dawkins would laughably suggest the original cell was placed here by aliens, let's all laugh at him. Anyway the original cell was placed here by the mighty and all-knowing creator of the universe which is of course much less silly than the idea of an alien doing it."

[@qandidhater673]

You do realize that you just described an alien?

[@leviz2644]

You're absolutely right, it really is less silly. An alien would be a created being, whereas "God" is how we would define the eternal being/entity that exists outside of time, matter and space. The unmoved mover. But on the other hand, if we are to assume that the original cell was placed by aliens, we still wouldn't know how those aliens came to be, they would also need that original cell themselves.

[@Magnusfication]

​@@leviz2644 same problem with "god" its just the point where you decide to stop thinking about it. Thats what the infinite creator fallacy is. Just another dumb thing to say when you dont know the answer. Which really is a shame, because not knowing the answer to something is completely acceptable. Just say i dont know.

[@bobbresee7781]

Unless the alien is the creator maybe there one in the same

[@frankhouck4446]

Ok tough guy- if the response to intelligent design is “an alien did it”, then who gave “the alien” life? See where this is going? It all goes back to God.

[@andrewgjennings]

Great arguments on both sides. After walking away from this, I have more questions than were answered, and both were responsible for my questions. I respect them both just for getting me to think, but also debating a topic which often devolves into death threats and name calling and someone storming off angry. This was awesome to watch. And for what it's worth, thanks to the audience for contributing to the positivity of this discourse.

[@markedfanatic9349]

I really wouldn't call any of D'Souza's arguments "great". He says rather than give Hitchens the pleasure of throwing the bible at him, he'll bamboozle him with science and reason instead, however, his entire oratory only serves to demonstrate how surficial his scientific understanding really is. The vast majority of his cited examples of the god explanation filling the scientific gaps are addressed directly and succinctly in Richard Dawkin's The God Delusion. I would recommend it highly if any of his examples gave you food for thought.

[@JimBobJoeB0b]

Hear hear, much agreed! 😄

[@chadcwk]

This is a rather nice comment. It’s refreshing to see one that isn’t negative or sarcastic. Just wanted to say thank you.

[@maestromike91971]

It’s nice to see a lot of people just watching this in the last few days.

[@tonyd3433]

Has to be the youtube algorithm at work. I clicked the link because it just appeared on my screen.

[@maestromike91971]

@@tonyd3433 me too.

[@joshualuntsford]

It was in my recommendation Cuzz I’m gangsta

[@ghost4life50]

Same🤔🤷🏾‍♂️

[@ckoritko]

Funny how the YT algorithm works.

[@BizarrePower]

Hitchens had such a commanding presence that I have never quite seen from anyone else. It'll always be a shame that he died, another 2-3 decades of Hitch would have been amazing.

[@philsymes]

I always laugh at the cowardly theists besmirching his name now that he has been dead for over a decade. Religious hypocrisy is simply unbelievable. Then again believing in sadistic, genocidal sky fairies in the 21st century is as well. 🙄

[@Miguel...160]

I totally agree , but at least we have people like Richard Dawkins and Stephen Fry from the Uk also.

[@philsymes]

@@Miguel...160 Also Ricky Gervais and the great David Attenborough and of course Harris, Dennett and Shermer are still with us too. In fact there are far too many highly erudite and well known rationalists to keep the fight going against the death cults to list. 👍😊

[@MegaFlorest]

If this decade is D'Souza's last, that would be great.

[@leelastarsky]

Indeed! Can you imagine what he'd have said about Trump and MAGA? I miss him terribly!!

[@ianmcpartland9306]

Just" discovered" him last week and find him so compelling. As with many, I wish I had been aware of him much, much earlier. Even more so, how I wish he was still alive..the world needs minds and communication like Christopher.

[@josephkriegel2119]

Really? What "compelled" you? This guy is hollow and lacking in any completeness. Maybe it is he speaking with an Engilsh acent and speaks in complete sentences you are impressed. Not me. Not impressed.

[@georgemorenstein]

Is that why God oh so ironically cancered of all things, his throat? In his divinely infinite wisdom, he knew the world needed more such minds, so he painfully struck one down? I personally don't think so, nor do I much concern myself with wasting this God given existence, by foolishly questioning his presence. About as useless an endeavor as watching this video. Pass.

[@NottherealLucifer]

​@@georgemorensteinYou don't question his presence because you're not smart enough to even attempt to put any evidence together. His presence doesn't need to be questioned, it's never been established.

[@georgemorenstein]

@@NottherealLucifer Everything 'before, now and after'.

[@jupiterinaries6150]

@@georgemorensteineven without the ability to speak orally one can still communicate via writing. So it’s not anything unusual or a proof for god that he had cancer of the throat.

[@johanneslindh3313]

Lol when d’souza started talking about universal constants, he started of by naming things that arent constants

[@danielsmithiv1279]

Such as? Can you give us examples of things that D'Souza said which aren't constant? Or are you just talking out of your butt?

[@johanneslindh3313]

@@danielsmithiv1279 The distance to the Sun is changing. And different around the globe Gravity is not a constant the gravitationslag acceleration on earth is different Where ever you are on the planet I can give him the speed of light as i assume he is talking about the speed of light in a vacuum from a stationery source. The expansionstakten of the universe is not really any constant so i assume he is refering to the Hubble constant or the hubble parameter, wich is not constant in time But spacially constant.

[@johnnyreb280]

This is actually true. The force of gravity on Earth varies depending on where you are on the planet. This is because the strength of gravity depends on a few factors, including the distance between two objects and the mass of those objects. The Earth is not a perfect sphere, and its shape is slightly oblate due to its rotation. This means that the distance from the center of the Earth to its surface varies depending on where you are on the planet. Because the force of gravity is inversely proportional to the square of the distance between two objects, the gravitational acceleration will be slightly different at different locations on Earth. Moreover, the density and distribution of mass within the Earth's crust also affects the local gravitational acceleration. For example, a region with a large mass concentration (such as a mountain range) will experience a stronger gravitational acceleration compared to a region with a lower mass concentration (such as an ocean). Therefore, it is true that gravity is not a constant on Earth, and the gravitational acceleration experienced by an object will vary depending on its location on the planet.

[@Raiddd__]

@@johnnyreb280 lmao no you're totally wrong. The force of gravity IS a constant. It never changes. What you just mentioned that changes is the EFFECTS of gravity (which are dependent on mass, distance). The effects of gravity ALWAYS (because the force is a constant) behave as following: every particle attracts every other particle in the universe with a force that is proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between their centers. That is what is constant. Very irrelevant and silly response of you and @johanneslindh3313 *edit* also yes, dont mention how technically newtons theory is "incorrect". Sure, but its correct enough to use in almost all cases, and of course there is some solution to gravity that is correct in literally all cases, and whatever THAT constant is, will be just as constant and fit perfectly well into everything i just said. Also who cares if he like mentioned the wrong constants? Literally no one cares. Fine tuning of the universe is an irrefutable observable scientific fact. Including the initial entropy state of the universe that Roger Penrose notes as being so unfathomably unlikely that it has but a 1 in 10^10^123 chance of happening. This number is so unfathomably unlikely that you cant say with near logical certainty it did not happen by chance (and can say with absolute logical certainty that it isnt reasonable to believe it happened by chance). The only question then is what is the best explanation of the fine tuning.

[@jasond4752]

I can't comprehend the universe therefore I invent an incomprehensible solution to which logic doesn't apply. Basically, I don't understand anything therefore I understand everything. Makes perfect sense.

[@phildavenport4150]

Plenty of folks out there who are perplexed by the real world, and take solace in the exhortations of conmen who collect flocks of these simple succulents and manipulate them for their own ends. Flat Earth is but one example. Religion has many examples also.

[@forpspeakingclass4444]

@@phildavenport4150 flat earth theory is just a spawn from Christianity

[@UnremarkableMarx]

@@phildavenport4150 humans are susceptable to religion. But let's not pretend atheists aren't susceptable to running into the wall of creationism, on account of simulation theory, and atheist & scientific interest in the paranormal; effectively just becoming a new salvation narrative (psychedelics, consciousness/dimensions, ufo's, computers). All becoming more and more validated by those in the sciences. A good Christian has no problem denoting these as fallen spirituality, (occult, satanic manipulations, new age spirituality). Because it'll be damn hard to extract truth out of these "divine" and "supernatural" things, which are upheld by scientism. Yet of course when I bring evidence of Catholicism being true, phenomena based evidence, it is really hearsay. And I don't cling to miracles, I don't use them to prove to myself and others Catholicism is the true basis of the world, it's creation, ethos, & design. But yes we might just be a blip of the 'life' phenomenon, in the vastness of spacetime, and whatever else is entailed in the greater universe. But that is on the basis of not understanding there is a story at play. If we go by odds, it's either my creationism, or scientism's versions of creationism, which is at play. By odds it's one of these, not an accident. I take my cues now from what is being told, and what is the meaning, or as I call it "The Word". I am affectionate to Astronomy and the modern science brought to life in the 20th century, when we talk about reveling in our insignificance. I am not of a religious background, I believed in typical science a la Neil Degrasse Tyson/Carl Sagan, and I believed in the big bang being the initiation of the universe. And us being a phenonmena within the universe. But I am a bettting man, and a convicted man, I saw the story at play, I studied history, and Catholicism was the answer. Now I pray and read scripture and have been vindicated by meeting the holy spirit. I chose religion for fulfillment of morals, and for rectifying our broken society, I am scared to be saved be Jesus in the end in some ways, eternity is a long time, but I've been born again once, I can die and live on and do it with grace.

[@cheekybum6136]

I can’t comprehend the universe therefore I believe a belief by one single human that before there were apes and then there was man. And where did the cell come from… idk perhaps an alien put it there

[@forpspeakingclass4444]

@@cheekybum6136 It was one mans theory that became a fact though...?

[@Bmanritchie]

9:45 Hitchens’ intro 26:02 Dinesh’s rebuttal 39:34 Hitchens’ rebuttal to Dinesh rebuttal 45:54 Dinesh responding to Hitchens’ rebuttal again 58:09 Questions

[@ithanreed5279]

was looking for this thx

[@cozeeetv]

Thank you! Some pages delete these because they want us to suffer through the nonsense!

[@judywright6889]

Thank You!

[@firefalcoln]

26:02 is supposed to be Dinesh’s intro. It’s poor form to rebut your opponent an extra time if you go second just because your opponent went first.

[@NoHairMan]

Thank you for investing your time to save that of many others :>

[@tonykearney3806]

Have debates disappeared? It's what got me interested on the internet and moved me to research what the world was talking about.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY

[@jonathancox9659]

Watching this 13 years later, and Hitchens really nails Russia and predicted what they would become.

[@NAFO_Badger_Brigade]

Yes exactly!!! Shocking the role of the church in his evil deeds and even more shocking the support for Putin by the religious right in America!

[@user-wr9ej6xe4j]

@@NAFO_Badger_Brigade More like Putin's (or anyone evil, like say Hitler's) interpretation of what the church would want. Not what churches actually want (evil and oppression and murder). Very different things. Man misrepresenting church's wishes isnt the same as what God or church would want

[@joecurran2811]

Hitchens predicted a lot of things right

[@supahsmashbro]

Don't listen to Hitch on politics, he is ignorant of America's true nature and how it has turned Ukraine into cannon fodder

[@julianhermanubis6800]

Both men were intelligent, mostly civil and thoughtful in their replies. In other words, they were absolutely unlike the participants in the average internet debate about this subject.

[@wbowden86]

yeah, but D'Souza like all other stark defenders of the faith, is not intellectually honest here. I mean he started his argument with "I'm not going to argue that religion is good for us, or comforting... that's all true..." It's not true. In fact, that was one of Hitchen's postulations was that religion is dangerous and harmful. So he basically just skirted the argument all together. He does a good job, there is just no way to defend the faith while being intellectually honest.

[@metalmiquel8314]

D'Souza was only intelligent in the sense that his words could have been planned lies to defend his faith. Barring that his words were incoherent. Pathetic ad hoc rationalizations disguised as prophecies, appeals to emotion, appeals to ignorance, and misrepresentations and/or misunderstandings of science.

[@t-bo2734]

@@metalmiquel8314 Uh huh. Hitchens did not share your opinion of the man. He had immense praise for D'souza's intellect and respected his analytic skills, though they obviously disagreed on this subject.

[@t-bo2734]

@Micolash He had loads of it and still does. He has acknowledged that we are living in a much more confrontational and extreme political period than was the case when he began his career. Thus, his approach has changed as society has become less civil. He believed he had to adapt to the current climate as a means to make headway in advocating his positions. It's hard to not be combative when left-wing agitators are disrupting your speeches, threatening you with violence if you set foot on a college campus, and comparing you to Adolf Hitler simply because you're non-leftist. Remember, Hitchens gave Bill Maher's audience the middle finger during an appearance on Real Time, and he didn't face anywhere near the hostility D'souza often faces.

[@jimmyc1518]

@@wbowden86 Thomas Paine sums up well exactly why Denish started his argument off that way *To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture. Enjoy, sir, your insensibility of feeling and reflecting. It is the prerogative of animals.* See it's easy to dismiss scripture when you can interpret scripture any way you like but it's not so easy to dismiss the complexity of cells, the universe having order to it etc and say it all just flung itself together intelligently on its own. I'm by no means a big fan of Denish in fact this is the first time I've heard him speak in years an the only reason for that is this video just happened to show up in my feed and I thought I'd check it out just to see what was being said between the two and I must say Denish won this debate handedly.

[@johndavidson5228]

Kudos to Notre Dame University for holding this debate.

[@macysondheim]

Nah, ain’t gonna get no kudos from me…

[@rockcap6821]

@@macysondheim why? there’s nothing biased about it, it’s quite literally just a room to hold the debate lmao

[@macysondheim]

@@rockcap6821 nah… clown

[@macysondheim]

@@rockcap6821 🤡

[@MoctezumasRevenge1]

@@macysondheim as a famous hare once said, aaaaahhhhh shut up.

[@momszycat4148]

Love hearing the wisdom Hitch always brought,even after his death.

[@hyperfox4494]

Love? Sounds like an evolved ape like social construct to me. In fact all the words you're using are pointless and have no meaning. Your source of " wisdom " thought this.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.

[@momszycat4148]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 there is no proof there is a god.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

@@momszycat4148 There is order in the universe, for instance the sun is at a perfect distance from the earth to allow for sustaining life (food, water, sowing and harvesting etc) You can only give what you have Humans have a sense of love, freewill (robots do not have free will), Justice (animals do not care about Justice, whereas human’s setup courts), feelings. A Being who has these attributes gave them (God). 100% of the time we get life from life. Therefore, Human life came from God. We all have a built-in conscience (knowledge of right and wrong). It is universal that murder is wrong, lying is wrong, stealing is wrong. (Conscience is God given)

[@momszycat4148]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 I'm afraid you need to prove a god exists first. The attributes you named are learned. We don't have a 'built in conscious '. Take a child born without society or other humans around and you won't see those attributes. There is a case study on this if you care to look it up. Prove god first,which you cannot.

[@TheDavidlloydjones]

Hitchens at 9:36. D'Sousa at 25:54. The first nine minutes is the usual further ado that they always falsely claim they are without any of.

[@unknownchannel3141]

Brilliant phrasing

[@chrisa.9977]

Thanks!

[@rmasters7096]

@@unknownchannel3141 . . Only, the words "any of" didn't need to be there, perhaps?

[@enterbalak]

Thank you

[@EzraMerr]

@@rmasters7096 it's traditional formal English grammar

[@hamishdouglas8780]

they're both relatively polite and respectful, very refreshing to see on the internet

[@thewastedwanderer5787]

That wasn't the internet. This is. They were speaking out of desire and not to mention, for the express purpose of a respectful debate. And guess what happens in real life when you say something that you'd only say on the internet? When said to the wrong person (or the right), you get smacked or something along those lines. That's exactly why you would only ever say it on the internet; Cowardice. Also- D'souza was not respectful. There are multiple times where he refers to Hitchens in an obvious tone of hubris.

[@hamishdouglas8780]

@@thewastedwanderer5787 you can show hubris and still be polite lol

[@charlidog2]

@Francisco Parra Hitchens was outstanding in life. Cheers.

[@amiddleschoolreader918]

These are REAL debaters

[@oliverjamito9902]

My beloved Hitchens. It's amazing how a FRITZ ignites through the mind and translated from the mouth? Now the question is? What is truth?

[@Yourghostuncle]

“The quantum is inferred to explain that which can’t be explained” - A religious person

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents, unbelief etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY

[@biftero]

The universe isn't fine tuned, it just is as it is.

[@lvskrn3076]

Dinesh: There is no good explanation Also Dinesh: Let me pick a terrible explanation instead

[@mreeeeeegf]

the worst part I find: They don't care how proofable the explanation is, just how plausible to them. "This sounds plausible, therefore I believe it. I do not have hard facts, and I don't care for them, unless of course you try to give an alternative view, then I REALLY need some and all hard facts explaining everything in detail. And also I'm still gonna reject it."

[@phillipstroll7385]

Dinesh : can't blame God for evil blame Hitler. The god of the Bible : I create all evil Isiah 45:7 Dinesh : I don't care still blame Hitler.

[@glennatkinson9948]

To be a fool is Ok How to open your mouth and prove it is not OK

[@taowaycamino4891]

No evidence that Christianity or God are not real or true.

[@darknoob89]

@@mreeeeeegf Isn't this how even scientists argue? Not to salvage his takes, in my opinion they were quite terrible, but honestly I see scientist use the same double standards

[@patscally5390]

The moderator says to keep questions brief, then proceeds to begin a 3 minute rambling starter question. Buffoon!

[@adreaminxy]

He was cracking me up. He's introduced as the perfect person to moderate etc. but his questions had absolutely no sophistication.

[@deesalmon9632]

Still waiting for him to ask an actual question!!

[@nickn8302]

I know right??!

[@MonkyTube18]

i think he just wanted to look smart too

[@yitzharos3006]

I have found without fail- the moderators at every private debate Ive seen tend to want their position in ths spot light. I imagine myself inviting two super heroes of debate and just being in awe in glory of that show regardless of my desire to speak into a microphone. :)

[@ttrestle]

I first realized that I was an atheist around 8 years old in 1988, but it took me years to fully understand why as well as to be able to argue or debate the point well. Hitchens was so helpful and I know he’s helped many others to break free from their indoctrinated mind-forged manacles.

[@MegaDonzee]

I was eight too in 1963! I thought that someone was trying to pull the wool over my eyes, what the hell! lol

[@fattlebieldproductions3198]

Well I knew I was an atheist in 2003 when I was 3

[@ttrestle]

@@fattlebieldproductions3198 technically we all are born atheists as we have to be indoctrinated into a specific belief

[@landor7610]

I consider it a badge of honor to be kicked out of Sunday School for asking too many questions. Also around 1988. Then at about 11 years old my extended family basically disowned me again for asking too many questions. I never went back. What kind of grandma kicks an 11 year old out of her house because he believes fish is meat. I was sitting on the curb for 5 hours until i could be picked up.

[@ttrestle]

@@landor7610 i’m so sorry you were kicked out of your own home. Yes, Fish is not meat in terms of literal definitions, but who cares? We are all born atheists, and we have to be indoctrinated into a religion and typically it is the religion that our parents, community, state, church, and country happens to have a majority belief in. but all religions are man-made mythologies, and there is no evidence to back up that any gods exist. One of the greatest things a human can do is revert back to the atheism that was there at their birth, and break free from any mind forged manacles that were indoctrinated into them and their youth. It can be very difficult for many, but once you do, it’s a beautiful thing to understand that this is the only life that we have. You can still find beauty and issues like evolution and cosmology and astronomy and you can find the numinous in art and music. One of my favorite books ever written is the demon haunted world by Carl Sagan. I read it in my teenage years and it helped me become a proper skeptic. Obviously, I’ve read hundreds and hundreds of books since then dealing with topics on skepticism, religion, history, science, art, etc. that have also helped me break free from indoctrination and learn to enjoy the world around me. But Carl Sagan Spock was instrumental in the beginning just like Christopher Hitchens books were so great in my mid-20s. Hitchens and Dawkins and Jerry Coyne and others like Sam Harris also helped me in my 30s.

[@davehawes8177]

Well I can't help but think Christopher Hitchens finally gets to win. I had never heard of him until I watched him and Steven Fry debate the negative side of "The Catholic Church is a force for good in the world " two days ago. Then today after watching two of his American University debates I find out that he died over 10 years ago. How is this possible I ask and then the penny drops. Thanks to the internet and U tube, he has the gift of eternal life and his message still reaches out to us all, challenging us to think about things rationally. One up on religious dogma I would have thought. For good measure I leave this thought, We live in one breath or the universe . Breath in grasshopper (Black Hole), breathe out grasshopper (Big bang).

[@philsymes]

Great post Dave. 👍

[@ericmarley7060]

They both went out and had pizza after this, btw.

[@samosmond2375]

Beautiful

[@emomc9557]

Facts?

[@user-iy2ju1wj3r]

@@emomc9557 yes, d'souza reminisced about it in a later video, after hitchens passed, talking about how cordial his debate and relationship was with hitchens. they fundamentally disagreed with each other, but they did not hate each other. 11 years ago seems like a whole different world.

[@joelfigueroa1309]

@@user-iy2ju1wj3r we're still apart of that generation. Im a Christian and have close friends that are atheist. Respect and tolerance seem like relics of a time forgotten

[@arcade-eyes3682]

@@joelfigueroa1309 I urge you to assess whether you meet Jesus' criteria for saved, Tolerance is not of the bible, it is a new age doctrine 2 Corinthians 6:14 "Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness"

[@Xnerdz1]

The sound is awfully low...

[@DrummerJacob]

Yeah you'd think Notre Dame could handle volume levels, out of everything it took to put this together, sliding your master volume knob up just wasn't on the list.

[@rhelferstay]

@@DrummerJacob Yeah, I was in the music scene growing up and 85% of the venues and clubs we played had the same issue. They never seem to use a few bucks to pay a decent sound guy.

[@bonniebabyboo3095]

@@DrummerJacob 😂😂😂😂😂

[@joaolopes7302]

Honestly seems fine to me.

[@coachfrank1221]

Why is this comment 5 years old but all the replies have occurred within the last 3 weeks?

[@grapetoad6595]

95 people say they met Bill? More like 5 people say they met Bill, and that Bill had magic powers, 20 people say they read about Bill in a 2000 year old book, 30 people say they read about a Bob in a 700 year old book, 20 people say they read of a group of people called the Barrys. And then 25 people say they've never met bill, bob, or barry. 15 of those say that none of them exist. Dinesh thinks since their names all begin with B then the big B must have existed, and that he has magic powers.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.

[@1carlsworth]

D"Souza - "I'm going to actually make an argument for the 'truth' of religion Me - "this should be good"

[@duracelldave7604]

Because you are the arbiter of truth and have studied theology and the bible for decades.

[@jeffjones3040]

@@duracelldave7604 ...It doesn't take that much study to see through that religious hogwash! At least not to someone with the ability to apply REASON.

[@heinshaaine8153]

I hoped for something good too. D'Souza is the name many apologists invoke as a great thinker for theism. But his opening is pahetic. He starts witt he same washed out crime scene analogy that turek uses all the time, then continues with an argument from personal incredulity and is know making an argument from fine tuntig. is the repetition of the same bad faith arguments that all apologists repeat ad nauseam really the best he could do? I kinda lost my fait in theists here...

[@lVideoWatcherl]

@@heinshaaine8153 It really is. I have also watched a good deal of debates where so-called theist 'thinkers' repeat these same issues over and over - and when you get down to the molecular level of the arguments, it is nearly always a god of the gaps argument. Really, close to *always.* There is one or two other arguments, like the morality argument, those however are of course not an argument _for_ god, but an argument for the _image_ of god, or a set of rules and ideals, which for the theists is religion, however which could just as well be (as it is) supplanted by societal rules and norms for morality. In fact, Hitchens makes a great case here how this is rather the way morality actually results in humans - societal views and norms are it, as the christian religion itself supported naziism and, even earlier, imperialism, as does the Russian orthodox church support Putin's imperialism today. If religion were to give an objective morality, then their moral standards were unchanging and indisputable. But they aren't, they are changing and they are _heavily_ disputed, both in the present and in retrospective of the past. All in all, theist 'arguments' are terribly weak. But what is to be expected of them, they are arguing for the reality of a hundreds of years old fiction-book with a few historical influences. Of course they are weak, and flawed to the core. And then religious people get offended when you compare their belief to believing that Harry Potter is real, which would be just as delusional.

[@anonymousman4419]

@@lVideoWatcherl I apply Sam Harris' policy when dealing with theists and pretend I am a polytheist. They get shocked when you put Greek gods at the same level of their beliefs.

[@dexterwarrington8615]

This is such an interesting debate. It's unfortunate that the volume could not be adjusted upward so that it could be more easily heard.

[@johnlepage5486]

I agree with that. I had to set my volume on the highest setting in order to hear them.

[@eddieclark9802]

Enjoy your grammar. 😊

[@jennief7114]

It is only for Hitchens! Like you I was so aggravated, glad to "hear" no pun intended that it was just not me!

[@MrDorbel]

I heard every word clearly.

[@paigeann6738]

"Volume could not be adjusted upward" 😂😂😂

[@frankiemiller5364]

I love how often they recommend books and others works for the audience to expand their knowledge

[@toma3447]

Hi, Jesus loves you and I love you too!

[@SameStory_NewEnding]

@@alltimeklazzikz your obviously not talking to the right “religious “ people. I pray God puts the right one in your path.

[@philipstalter4448]

these comments 😂

[@Irishmule169]

The religious slaves just won’t quit will they ???

[@ksturmer5388]

Great comment!

[@pedrogaya5558]

It never ceases to amaze me how some people think that life is such a particular thing. Just because something happened as a consequence of reality, does not mean it was intended. As a matter of fact, if another universe were here, it might very well feel just as entitled.

[@Amy-un6xg]

Seriously? On what basis do you believe there was no intention behind the existence of life? As in, what makes you believe it came into existence via random, non-guided events?

[@christopherpcline]

@@Amy-un6xg Because if God created life, why did he put the same genetic defects in a way that we can trace through evolution? The laryngeal nerve is a perfect example, it exists in fish, it also exists in giraffes in which it travels from one side of the heart, all the way up the neck and back down again instead of travelling a few inches. If God was intelligent he wouldn't design such a thing, and even if he did design such a thing it would be evidence that these things evolved (which we know they did through scientific study) and not evidence of God. All God needs to do to prove himself is eliminate all childhood poverty and suffering which he either cannot do or won't do so God is either impotent or evil, neither of which are worthy of worship.

[@he191254]

Amen! Well said.

[@pocketdust2450]

@@Amy-un6xg We can conclude that nature has natural intentions such as physics and biochemistry. Why could it not be random? That's the simplest explanation but we could complicate it. Simple explanation: Entity 1 came into contact with Entity 2 which caused a reaction and created Entity 3. """Complex""" explanation: Entity 1 came to exist 28 billion years ago, Entity 2 is only 7 million years old, they have roughly 0.[insert 28 nonillion zeroes]1% chance to come into contact per year, but they do not have to come into contact with each other, there are more particles out there so for all we know Entity 1 could react with Entity 585825 instead of Entity 2, hence why it is random. What we know is that this Entity 1 came into contact with something which in turn caused a reaction which in turn made an other entity, now repeat this a fair few times and you have a plant for example. I know, crazy but we have nothing else that could explain it sensibly, and we do not know what happened before these entities came into existence. You may ask "But how did Entity 1 and Entity 2 came to exist?", but we cannot answer that so do not pretend that you can, we can only work with what we have and we do not have the first ever thing to exist so we can't really study it nor where it came from.

[@mitchellmaness3517]

Silopsism..... You look out into the void and think you have some kind of holy purpose in it. It's selfish to think that granted, there is an incomprehensible amount of galaxy, stars, planets, etc. And to conclude that your more important than it itself.

[@WhiteBraveheart1]

The cancer was literally killing him in this debate. He had 46 days left before entering the emergency room.

[@wheeler6768]

I love seeing respectful debates like these. Just wish the audio was louder

[@thomascarroll9556]

I don’t see it as respectful, D’Souzau comes with no evidence, he wasn’t respectful when he disrespected the election laws by to make illegal campaign donations, he’s not a respectful person. He thinks he’s g0d’s chosen creature, so why does he need eye glasses to read?

[@JenniferDification]

Seriously! Can barely hear it!

[@SteveVon7]

Pre civil cold war days -rip

[@cgrcustoms4791]

Set your phone down in a empty cereal bowl. Gets way louder.

[@Alienshade]

Dsouza aren't he a child? It sounds so because he is so unintelligent.......

[@jeffreylasky2737]

What’s great is both Hitchens and D’Souza actually enjoyed debating each other.

[@rhelferstay]

Yes, intellectuals like to debate and have their views and ideas challenged. Unfortunately we live in a world where the atheists automatically think anyone who is religious or spiritual is an ignorant moron and most religious people think atheists are devious heathens. They both can be extremely annoying, I prefer agnostics to atheists, almost every ism leaves you close-minded.

[@CteCrassus]

@@rhelferstay "Agnostic" refers to knowledge and acts as a modifier to the word "Atheist". If you know no gods exist then youre a _Gnostic Atheist;_ If you don't you're and _Agnostic Atheist;_ But as long as your answer to the question "Does one or more gods exist?" *isn't* "Yes" you're an Atheist, no matter how sure your are of the answer.

[@zepherinparnell5500]

Atheist means you are unconvinced that there is a god. It is perfectly possible to be an agnostic atheist, meaning that you don’t know that there isn’t one but are unconvinced that there is. 👍

[@pskfry]

@@zepherinparnell5500 that's just called being agnostic...

[@ObediahPolkinghornIII-cz5io]

@@rhelferstay There are exceptions to every rule, except this one.

[@kabri]

"What better explanation is there to existance than 'there's an invisible eternal being that does everything and is so intelligent he (because it is a he) made us very flawed just to play with our souls". Pure brilliance!

[@coffinman5007]

And if he left us proof of infinite intelligence we might find it in thw mandelbrot set.

[@SkullWaneVideos]

It sounds like D'Souza is saying that people who are deprived of God may lack morals. But then again, there are moral people out there with no belief in God.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.

[@timdark4733]

That because there is moral law written on our hearts. Atheists hypocritical follow moral laws while simultaneously saying they don't believe in them because of determinism and that you are just a cosmetic accident and morals are just a social construct.

[@RebiTHC]

Great debate. I loved the part where Christopher Hitchens pointed his magical wand at the creationists and chanted "reductio ad absurdum!" and he Hitched all over them

[@johnstewart4350]

HITCHENS KNOW NOW WHERE HE IS, AND GONNA BE FOR ETERNITY. THERE IS NO REPENTANCE AND SECOND CHANS FOR HIM. PS: TAKE WARNING AND FLEE TO CHRIST !!

[@elijahbaley5556]

It truly was one of the debates of all time.

[@mjolnir5024]

It's hitching time.

[@wigligigly3375]

I actually felt Hitchens Hitchin inside me

[@wigligigly3375]

@@johnstewart4350 bro didn’t even Hitch. How disappointing

[@upstatenewyork]

Starts about 9:45

[@averagedoomenjoyer1232]

Thanks

[@fjoa123]

Religion is a blanket for those who need comfort against the terrifying fact that we exist.

[@forthehomies7043]

Each time Hitchens coughs it hurts. He died the same year as this debate from cancer. While I don't agree with everything Hitchens says, he sure opened my mind. RIP.

[@vhawk1951kl]

The sewerite Hitchens is not resting titch,. he *Dead* and a good thing too, one fewer tendentious attention seeking, lying pervert on this planet can only be a good thing- the little creep was a dreadful poseur, and a complete fraud. He was no more an atheist that he was a heterosexual or original and all that balls about decency(or some cognate of that bunkum that you creatures call morality) was pure unalloyed religion - for what*Else*is religion but all that good/evil right/wrong, morality/ethics mumbo jumbo? I appreciate the the Elsies and simpletons imagine that religion *necessarily* has something to do with the god fantasy, but being Elsies and simpletons they are of course mistaken because self -evidently there are scores of religions which do not advert to the god fantasy, but a goodly number of them are explicitly atheistic, which is only a pose because there *are* no real atheists, because belief or acceptance without question takes place in men(human beings) mechanically automatically - choicelessly, which means that the can no more *choose* to believe or not to believe that the can *choose* not to dream or not have their heart beat-so the idea of men having choice or even the possibility of being able to choose is not borne out by the evidence of what is and cannot be different. Machines cannot choose any more than dreamers can choose, and what are men but dreaming machines?

[@WoodlandRecordings]

Well, he died in 2011.

[@camcam8995]

It’s not a debate, it’s a matter of facts vs opinion

[@petyrkowalski9887]

And theistic wishful thinking

[@markcredit6086]

I agree that drunk hitch has no facts and appeals to the low IQ crowd

[@phildavenport4150]

@@petyrkowalski9887 ...which has driven every organized religion for the last however many thousands of years.

[@AW06]

Such a sad thought that the many coughs that The Hitch had to contain during his opening statement were a foreboding of his illness. Within just over a year he would be dead - such a brilliant mind and whit is truly missed.

[@kend7597]

Hearing his coughs hurt 😢

[@ojrmk1]

He was pretty wonderfully glib in the face of it. When asked "How are you?" in one opening of a panel he replied "Well, I'm dying...but so are you."

[@Mansplainer452]

What does it matter though. He lay with the maggots which are as valuable as his existence right? As valuable as the poor African kid who dies prematurely from malnutrition. Clearly a marvelous notion of equipoise as the cornerstone of atheism👳tank you an come agen

[@tera1755]

@@Mansplainer452 this point is utter casuistry.

[@Mansplainer452]

@@tera1755 who cares dude

[@164procar4]

Hitchens what a legend!!

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY

[@randomworkings3600]

Did you listen to D’Souza?

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

@@randomworkings3600 God through the Holy Spirit has shown me several things relating to the afterlife with the purpose of convincing people like yourself. Stuff like Heaven and Hell, Angels, and evil Spirits the Lord Jesus (not worthy at all), a miracle happened to me that saved my life (thank you God) & so much more. I am more than happy to give further details.

[@randomworkings3600]

@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363 I appreciate your evangelization, but I am a practicing Catholic. God bless.

[@CDN-]

someone who wants to change hearts and minds vs someone looking for laughs Man I love Hitchens

[@Amy-un6xg]

It's sad that you know this and yet you still like Hitchens. They are not comedians. They are supposed to be rationally debating/discussing a very serious and relevant topic.

[@chrispapadopoulos3152]

the other guys is the comedian not hitchens. I dont understand how you got confused@@Amy-un6xg

[@Amy-un6xg]

@@chrispapadopoulos3152 Interesting, because changing hearts and minds is typically the goal of an apologist, not an atheist. I also find it interesting that you believe Hitchens was trying to change hearts, thereby acknowledging that the topic is ultimately a heart issue. Remember, none of us know (intellectually, that is) if there is a God. So the question is which position is the most rational, and one should only need to change your mind on a purely rational topic. That's not the case with the topic of God's existence because it is inextricably linked to your heart position. I also find it amusing Hitchens considers himself an anti-theist, which literally would be defined as being against those that believe in God, but he describes it as being against religion. Which really means he could still believe in the existence of a God. You don't need religion for that. And if I had to be honest with myself both speakers were making jokes, but D'Souza's argument was more rational. Also, it's almost like Hitchens himself believed his arguments were less rational as he spoke under his breath and I had to rewind the video so many times to hear it. In fact, I still have to watch it again to hear everything he said.

[@chrispapadopoulos3152]

@@Amy-un6xg D'Souzas arguments where where quite low effort and basic. Like the village example where he was appealing to popularity ,so a logical fallacy. Also he isn't against theists themselves but what they believe in. A singular religious person could generally be s good person but believe in something horrible like Christianity do you have to attack the religion

[@chrispapadopoulos3152]

@@Amy-un6xg also changing someone's mind is as much of a job for an atheist as it is for a religious person. One side wants you to Ignore all their logical fallacies and to have faith whilst the other wants you to acknowledge only what can and has been confirmed. D'Souza made the argument that science hasn't answered impossible questions like what happens after death and somehow that makes the religious made up answer credible? It's things like that that make weak or false where's hitchens didn't make any mistakes like that

[@Beaches_south_of_L.A.]

Hitchens doesn't start speaking until 9:41 everything before is introductory crap by people you've never heard of whom have nothing to say.

[@vickiezaccardo1711]

Wish I' d seen your comment before 8:19. By the time I type this comment he should be starting.

[@timberger212]

Thank you for saving me and others almost 10 mins of life

[@cambienvenu]

What a hero, thank you, friend.

[@ChimeratAlpha]

Thank you kindly.

[@user-il5hy5tr5z]

Based

[@prometheanevent]

Stuff like this always reminds me of how mediocre my level of knowledge is, .

[@markcavandish1295]

Right?!?

[@allahspreadshate6486]

That's an invaluable lesson to learn; how little we know. The danger of ignorance is not "not knowing", its "thinking you know what you don't".

[@prometheanevent]

@@allahspreadshate6486 - I’d only add the worst-case scenario - when someone’s thought that they “know” is also thought to qualify them to run other peoples’ lives.

[@allahspreadshate6486]

@@prometheanevent - Or not just "thought to qualify" but those that are actually empowered to run our lives, our leaders and law-makers. (Edit: And, in the context of this video, religious authorities.)

[@sebastianactually1310]

@@allahspreadshate6486 Jesus is Lord

[@michaelmuckinhaupt584]

Funny how D'Souza knows that Hitler said "Do not be afraid to lie to make your case." He is the king of using that ideal.

[@woodytheduke]

2000 mules is a good example of his lies

[@nftscreenshotter6436]

don't you love how he's like "bUt WhErE dO cElLs CoMe FrOm" as if he really dropped the mic? I'm surprised we didn't hear a collective forehead smack by every educated person in the audience. bro's argument there literally is "I'm ignorant about science, that must mean that god created everything!"

[@P.Galore]

I really miss Hitch.....his death robbed humanity of a powerful spokesperson for reason.

[@TraceOwens1985]

Dr. Craig destroyed Hitchens

[@markbeckham7298]

@@TraceOwens1985 No one has ever nor will they ever destroy Hitchens!

[@TraceOwens1985]

@@markbeckham7298 Well Craig did so watch again

[@BenMJay]

Hitchens bottomless contempt for the Clintons. He was a smart man who ripped them to shreds. So much like Breitbart, Hitchens suddenly got cancer.

[@rusmoody5198]

@@TraceOwens1985 By no means sir

[@pacojr5125]

Its crazy how people have been debating about the existence of god for ages and yet we're still debating

[@danger.snakes]

only the gods change

[@gailstone1636]

For those who believe, no Explanation is needed, and for those who do not believe, no explanation is Sufficient.

[@bn8579]

@@gailstone1636 this is a nonsense statement

[@helwithe7914]

The reason it's still a debate is because a majority of theists hold power and sway over politics and money, which are powerful incentives. It might seem like the debate is still going strong, but a vast majority of our worlds youth are coming to their senses with skepticism and logic. Don't be surprised, though, that the debate will continue considering what religious minds are capable of.

[@missesmew]

Because it’s scary that humanity in this day and age, despite all the evidence of atrocities committed en masse against children that can’t be denied, that anyone could ever need the help from a god that allows that?

[@Bobby-oc9qw]

Hitchens so witty and entertaining

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

All Humans need to repent & Believe in Jesus as their God. Why? Because all Humans have sinned (lied, lusted sexually, stolen, dishonoured parents etc). Avoid the fires of Hell (justice of God) and choose Heaven today. Jesus defeated death by rising from the dead. GOD IS HOLY

[@arah2368]

God of the gaps galore with a healthy sprinkling of the watchmaker argument.

[@mearkhalidmuhammad303]

I don't know why but whenever I listen to Christopher I hear a living Christopher one who is present with me!

[@henryeastwood1132]

Dinesh's argument for god in this debate is the best argument for god I have ever heard especially the first part. Excellent work, awesome arguments, great debate.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

Most people have heard “Jesus/God loves you”. Does that mean they have a relationship with God and will go to heaven? Depends on the individual. A relationship is 2 sided, you receive love and you give love back. God showed His love by suffering, dying on the cross and rising from the dead for you, now you show Love back by repenting of your sins (lying, stealing, sexual sins, taking the Lord’s Name in vain etc) and believing in Jesus as your Lord and saviour so that Heaven is in your future not hell.

[@tl6690]

We lost a great man 10 years ago today. You'll never be forgotten. RIP Hitch!

[@ceceroxy2227]

Lost a great man, as long he doesnt believe in God, but if he ever converted to Christianity he would immediately become a terrible man

[@Jolly_Rodger]

@@ceceroxy2227 And by now he knows for sure.

[@mariadaniellawulffdaarbak1891]

@@Jolly_Rodger im going to guess he knows absolutely nothing now..... Cause hes dead....

[@Jolly_Rodger]

@@mariadaniellawulffdaarbak1891 In terms of debate God vs no God. If Hitchens was right - yes, he’s dead and buried. But if he is wrong - then his mortal flesh is rotting in the grave, but immortal soul continue on its journey and he definitely knows how wrong he was. But let me ask you a question - what do you hope for? That he was right?

[@wolfthequarrelsome504]

Thank you Christopher for the opportunity to rebut your Marxist ideas. Your soul is either in heaven or hell now.

[@hunterkovacs6071]

And 363 days after this upload, there was a Vanity Fair memorial in his name. Rest well, Hitch.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.

[@ymfemptyb6967]

​@@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363delusional

[@aprylvanryn5898]

It is amazing how D'Souza's whole opening statement is entirely wrong from start to finish. Even based on information from a decade ago it's still wrong.

[@nftscreenshotter6436]

dude basically said "durrr wHaT's A cElL?" 💀

[@Al_Gonzo]

I think I never heard worse arguments than these. Multiple times I stopped the video and wondered whether he even gave 2 seconds of thought for the things he was saying because they were simply wrong or easily disprovable.

[@cradenborg]

You mean the argument about the way science works? The detective and the crime scene?

[@User-19382]

Just cause you don’t believe it God doesn’t mean it’s wrong.

[@aprylvanryn5898]

@Joanne-19382 that's irrelevant. My beliefs have nothing to do with him being wrong about so much.

[@chokin78]

Christopher saying 'I don't mind' when the moderator said refrain from booing, throwing fruit etc is a classic now...

[@dr.rickmarshall6697]

Holy macaroni

[@cuivre2004]

Because he was quite sure that it would be HIS cohorts that would stoop to doing that, therefore he wouldn't be the target.

[@dr.rickmarshall6697]

@@cuivre2004 Or it could be like this, he didn’t care if they threw anything at him because he was telling the truth and being honest ,and if that’s what it takes that’s what he was willing to endure to cure you from your stupidity and insanity.

[@ericmork630]

@@cuivre2004 ah yes, projection. A common tactic in the theist toolbox of failures. Because it's atheists who have thousands of years of history of torturing, murdering, heckling and throwing food at people they've locked in the stocks for daring to offend their favorite fairy tale deity

[@icepick1514]

@@cuivre2004 what nonsense.

[@Kedeoart]

52:07 Moderator tells everyone their questions should be brief and to the point >> proceeds to ask one of the longest winded questions I've ever heard in my life. Not only that, if you listen carefully, there isn't even a question in the entire thing, its all statements. lol

[@Antonio-el7hz]

I noticed that lol. He's very long winded.

[@ObediahPolkinghornIII-cz5io]

@@Antonio-el7hz You would think that someone who's worried about the afterlife would be more succinct.

[@angelwarrior5519]

The one that makes the rules usually doesn't follow them

[@baflange6477]

You be dumb doe

[@topjest9365]

@k yle S wanson hahaha, this is so accurate

[@iamsuperfritz]

I looked at the title of the video before I even listened and was like omg this is going to be a blowout…

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

Most people have heard “Jesus/God loves you”. Does that mean they have a relationship with God and will go to heaven? Depends on the individual. A relationship is 2 sided, you receive love and you give love back. God showed His love by suffering, dying on the cross and rising from the dead for you, now you show Love back by repenting of your sins (lying, stealing, sexual sins, taking the Lord’s Name in vain etc) and believing in Jesus as your Lord and saviour so that Heaven is in your future not hell.

[@simonthompson2764]

Peaceful disagreement is infinitely better than angry and violent disagreement. We all live in a finite space with finite resources. We have to try to get along with each other better.

[@colinmcquail442]

Agreed Simon , but …. I can’t see it happening in the present regime 😢

[@michaeloreilly2533]

I wish people now could argue opposing positions in this respectful and articulate a manner.

[@tomtalk24]

Seemed one sided, the other was on the attack.

[@phildavenport4150]

@@tomtalk24 One sided for a good reason. Theists argue for the existence of a God, with no evidence whatever that can be assessed by an atheist. Until such time, the atheist can only wait. Just like flat Earthers - claiming that the Earth is flat, but having zip evidence for it, while endlessly demanding proof of a globe Earth, and denying all evidence provided.

[@peternelson7048]

They can. It happens all the time.

[@TheEverFreeKing]

@@tomtalk24 Yes D'Souza absolutely destroyed hitchins 😎👍

[@bobemperorofbobkind6004]

@@TheEverFreeKing no he didn't literally every single scientific point he made was wrong

[@willr4849]

This is really a classic debate. It fully deserves its 5 million views.

[@blackholeentry3489]

UH.....Five Million likes!

[@Sonja14athome]

@@blackholeentry3489 5.3M views - 27,000 likes

[@angryatheist]

3000 of those are me falling asleep and waking up to this lol

[@angryatheist]

@LAST WILL BE THE FIRST put ur bible in Uranus cause unlike your god , I actually exist. God help me…. Oh but he won’t will he , he struggles with all that existing stuff

[@M.M85]

children in school never get the answers for a test, but they can study for it. It doesn't matter how much the child's future is in danger, the teacher will guide, but not give the answer. Even though they are innocent beings... Like God, he will let us do our test and either pass or fail. He won't come down to tell you love me, but he will give you the capacity... there is more to it

[@MohyDev]

Why there's no debates of Christopher with other intellectual debaters on the same level? That's what i would like to watch!

[@philsymes]

Not a debate but The Four Horsemen in discussion is wonderful Ahmed. 😊

[@joygorson4648]

There aren’t any on his level.

[@MeganVictoriaKearns]

​@@joygorson4648Agreed.

[@victormonreale9217]

Hitchens we miss you, do not be afraid of death , after all we were dead for 4 billions years , and we did just find.

[@seamless_rhymes]

Sad I only discovered Hitchens today. What an incredibly well-spoken man. Sad to hear of his passing.

[@CptFarlow]

Hey my fiend, look at the bright side: you have a plethora of Hitchens' content to enjoy! I ghighly recommend the Intelligence Squared debate he did along with Stephen Fry.

[@kenamarbi8108]

Same here

[@zmo1ndone502]

Welcome to the club brother....he who hear hitchens and is not immediately intrigued is dead inside n not a friend of mine

[@dashlamb9318]

Yes. Truly sad. But sadder still is the world has to hear garbage the cur dog D'Shih Tuz will barf up for the next 20 or 30 years.

[@dandydan999]

No worries, he is in a better place.

[@dfhwze]

This is from an Era where 2 people having opposite views could still debate eachother.

[@christopher5846]

Implying?

[@hieverybody4246]

@@gertie9881 Or, if at a campus, the college simply bans anyone to the left of Mao. And if they dare let it go forward, the "woke" mob shouts it down anyone that doesn't agree with them 100%.

[@LiamCameron77]

@@hieverybody4246 you say to the left of Mao like he wasn’t extremely far left.

[@hieverybody4246]

​@@LiamCameron77 He wasn't. He believed strongly in free speech, didn't believe that "everything is racist," and he was very strongly anti-communist. Chris Hitchens was a classical liberal, as were most prominent non-political liberals until Trump took office and they all went fucking insane.

[@burnerbrecks5]

@@hieverybody4246 bro I agree with much of what you say but... Mao FOUNDED the largest communist party to ever exist

[@royster7170]

Back when there was people from the left and right, having an honest debate.

[@01What10]

Not only that, but it's at a University! Today, you couldn't have a debate like this at a University without someone screaming accusations of racism or some other insanity. Not only that, D'Souza probably wouldn't have made it through the door without claims he was making the students feel "unsafe". Modern day is beyond ridiculous. I miss these days. So many interesting discussions were happening.

[@Johnsmith-pd3uk]

With respect and civility

[@01What10]

@@Johnsmith-pd3uk Sadly, a rare thing today.

[@bentnob]

Not sure Dinesh is capable of being honest for even a moment, but at least he can remain civil, which admittedly can’t be said of Christopher, but at least he spoke with sincerity.

[@Johnsmith-pd3uk]

@@bentnob Hitchens is always well spoken, articulate, and polite. Watch other debates with him where people constantly insult him. He doesn't respond in kind

[@trackingthealgorithm221]

It’s ok to not believe in god. It’s ok to believe in god. If you don’t, you need to understand why some people do. If you do, you need to understand why people don’t. That’s why I love conversations like this. It helps you better understand people that think differently from you. I’m in sales, pretty successful at it too. Because I take great joy in learning how other people think. It’s a powerful tool.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

Most people have heard “Jesus/God loves you”. Does that mean they have a relationship with God and will go to heaven? Depends on the individual. A relationship is 2 sided, you receive love and you give love back. God showed His love by suffering, dying on the cross and rising from the dead for you, now you show Love back by repenting of your sins (lying, stealing, sexual sins, taking the Lord’s Name in vain etc) and believing in Jesus as your Lord and saviour so that Heaven is in your future not hell.

[@briancollins1296]

You know, I love how great a speaker Hitchens was. If you wrote down everything he said it would make for almost as compelling a read as his writings. Great speaker and writer, and there's hardly a day where I don't miss him.

[@GoodAvatar]

How strange is it to miss someone that you never met, and didn't know that you ever lived?? But I understand. I miss the Hitch, too. He wasn't always right, but he changed my mind on about a dozen subjects. I miss speakers with that much verbosity and charm and wit. As the saying goes, we'll never see his like again...

[@Johnny-dp5mu]

most importantly Brian is the fact based logic of Hitchen's words of WISDOM -- he is 1000% correct. all of history of man supports him

[@armchairrockstar186]

I totally miss him dude

[@knowthycell]

Down with capitalism

[@catherinethomas1977]

After watching the crime of Jeffrey Lundgren, i was searching for answers about why religion is so dangerous and the I found CH.

[@highachiemytale6743]

Scientology proves people believe in anything

[@oldscorp]

Good point! If scientologists exist we shouldnt be too hard on people who believe that time, matter, space and energy can pop into existence out of nothing, without a cause or that life can be spawned by lifeless rock in warm water, without any kind of evidence of that hapening anywhere/anytime in nature.

[@technomage6736]

@@oldscorp Indeed, and we also should go easy on those who believe a god could just pop into existence out of nothing and without a cause, without any kind of evidence of that happening anywhere/anytime in nature ;)

[@ghost_of_jah5210]

Techno Mage woah you turned it😨

[@ghost_of_jah5210]

Open Mind Closed Fist bro I did not understand that last half of your comment at all.

[@Raccon_Detective.]

@Open Mind Closed Fist And the book is full of contradictions and fake facts like how the Egyptians inslaved the Israelites but later go debunked.

[@allen1584]

I love ❤️ these debates and the 2 of them , have an open discussion on the curiosity of our existence and although this video very old, but very relevant as always.

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

The issue at hand is sin and God’s nature of being just. Sin brings suffering (the pleasure is short term, and the suffering is long term-on earth and in hell forever). God brings Righteousness (may have short term suffering followed by long term pleasure- on earth and in Heaven). If you love yourself repent of your sins (lying, hatred, unforgiveness, sexual sins, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, stealing, dishonouring your parents etc) & believe in Jesus for forgiveness of sins. (Jesus died on the Cross as a sacrifice and defeated death by rising from the dead)

[@garymaclean6903]

"You give up your seat because you're a nice guy"... Morality and Ethics. It is clear, and there’s reams of evidence throughout multiple branches of biological science, how ‘Social Behavior’ in wide numbers of higher species is to a greater or lesser extent an evolutionary adaptation that helps the survival of the group, and thus the individuals. Acts of clear altruism, where demonstration of care for others, cooperation, pack behavior, generosity, self-sacrifice, and even forward-thinking, demonstrate values that seem innate to the majority within that species. From this reality it can be determined how our tendency towards moral behavior is an inherited evolutionary adaptation that we’ve discovered improves our chances for survival. On top of this is our rational analysis of how a structured and regulated society allows us to function better that a society built on chaotic anarchy would provide. This doesn’t mean there aren’t many among us who try to push the limits of moral and ethical behavior for their own benefit. Some of this anti-social behavior can be attributed to poor environmental influences, and various degrees of mental illness, such as psychotic behavior. People have free will to choose their behavior. That D'Sousa tries to attribute this innate quality of Moral Behavior to a ‘Moral Law-Giver’, is merely a totally unnecessary assigning of a supernatural origin to something that is completely accounted for in a purely natural explanation. How does he explain why non-believers ALSO behave morally...?

[@Amy-un6xg]

Morally according to who? And there are plenty of reasons atheists would choose to act in a manner that any given society views as morally upright

[@garymaclean6903]

@@Amy-un6xg There's a wide range of opinions on what constitutes 'moral behavior'. I'm sure that by any of those opinions there are atheists who would meet those moral standards, and some who would not. Very much exactly like others who claim their morality comes from their god and their religion... And the reasons why atheists act morally have everything to do with how our social expectations have evolved, to where even people of vastly different faiths (or non-faiths) have many similar standards of what they believe is moral behavior, and what is not... Religious morality was adopted after man had evolved standards of social behavior that helped them as a community survive through 'social cooperation' (i.e. moral behavior), rather than total conflict. Man knew it was wrong to kill long before god gave Moses the ten commandments...

[@Amy-un6xg]

@@garymaclean6903 I'm not sure if it's intentional, but you managed to dodge the actual question and insert your opinion as fact. I asked who set the guidelines for morality, not what constitutes moral behavior? I guess that brings me to the first part of your comment. If moral behavior is just a matter of opinion, then right and wrong doesn't actually exist as concrete, immutable standards, which means they don't actually exist at all. That is a logical conclusion, not my opinion on the matter. Additionally, I would argue that atheists generally could act "morally" at times because society sets guidelines that limit what they are permitted to do without consequence, they believe that such moral behavior will facilitate their personal and professional growth and they personally value the well-being and lives of others to the extent that they wouldn't choose to harm another being if they did not believe they would gain anything (or something subjectively greater) from it. Those are just a few logical reasons that have nothing to do with evolution. I don't really understand how you can claim as fact that 'social behavior' or 'religious social behavior' is a product of evolution when not only is there no way to prove that, but the evidence to support that claim (as far as I personally know at this time- my strength is an understanding of the biological evolutionary worldview) is severely lacking. If you believe the evidence in favor of it is strong, please share with me what convinced you. Additionally, if you believe that 'religious social behavior' is a construct of evolution then you'd need to also explain to me why the religious were more socially "fit" (also remembering that if you are simply acting as if you ascribe to a particular faith system it's not genuine faith, and there is no way acting/lying could be a product of evolution), what part of the genome (or epigenetics) influenced such behavior or belief (if any, if not what brought it into existence, and how can it be passed down each generation without resistance), and why atheists exist at all given the purely physical/social explanation you stand by. Are atheists then, more socially fit? If so, how and according to who? Notice that not once did I insert my opinion as fact. I am simply using rationale to come to the most reasonable/likely conclusion on the matter.

[@garymaclean6903]

@@Amy-un6xg You've actually hit the nail on the head. Yes, there are no 'absolutes' when it comes to morality and ethics. They are all 'social conventions', whether they originate from a religious society or a non-religious society. But that doesn't mean you can conclude 'they don't exist at all..!!!' They clearly exist for those who hold them, for the simple reason that we, as individuals or a society, say they exist. Just like any other social convention, like government, money, laws, etc. etc. - All these don't inherently exist. They exist because man 'created them', and they can be significantly different in one society, or individual, vs another... And your conclusion moral behavior has nothing to do with evolution, misses the reality of how we (and many other species) could not have survived without group participation and behavior that is beneficial to their group and thus to individuals, that allowed them to survive and thrive to evolve to where they are today. Our behaviors have always had a genetic influence, as well as an environmental (social) influence. Just like behavior in many other species isn't just 'learned'... As to the evolution of religion and religious morality', that is blatantly obvious, as throughout man's history there have always been gods, spirits, and even miracles used to explain everything from man's origins; how the world works; our place in the universe; and what our destiny after death will be. As important was how religion also codified 'moral behavior', thus bringing stability and order to the societies who followed it. You cannot find one culture or society throughout all of man's history that did not point to a 'supernatural' origin that explains all these aspects that man otherwise could not explain. (Until the advent of science and the Scientific Method provided more 'natural' explanations.) The fact that even our current societies have gone through a multitude of 'gods' (Zeus, Thor, Poseidon, etc. etc.) who we no longer consider relevant, only demonstrates how mutable our beliefs in the supernatural has been. Even with all the major religions around the world today, all claiming to be the 'one true faith', there's clearly much doubt how any of them actually could be what they claim. None of them certainly can provide anything like irrefutable 'proof'. That's the actual definition of 'faith' - belief in that which cannot be proven... And these statements aren't all 'just my opinion'. They are backed by the evidence of research and facts, and the reality that it demonstrates.

[@Mostopinionatedmanofalltime]

Excellent and well stated point.

[@easywind4044]

I like the compassion and humility of Christopher. I think many people have a hard time detecting those qualities in him.

[@alexflenner3778]

@Easy Mind. 100 percent agreed!!!!

[@for_frodo91]

His opponent for one!

[@TheBestMovieAlive]

Rest in peace, Christopher Hitchens.

[@A.C.71]

he is most likely resting very uncomfortably in hell unless he accepted christ before his last breath.

[@BartAllen]

@@A.C.71 *Not a toxic person like yourself, undoubtedly - as you are judging, which is narrow-minded; not to mention he has and will achieve more than you ever will ~*

[@plato8260]

@Mandatory Late Term Abortions for All DemoKKKrats question, why is it hypocritical

[@skettles3151]

Plato I think the point is that “resting” is an action requiring a degree of agency. There can be no agency if there is no subject, which is what an atheist would assert

[@plato8260]

@@skettles3151 when someone dies, his body stops working and is forever at rest. So it is literally resting in peace

[@brianmccarthy6544]

As usual, Hitchens always decidedly beat his opponent with logic. Miss him

[@vhawk1951kl]

Why do you children see everything in terms of winning and losing? You cannot help it and have no choice in the matter? Tell me diddums who or what dies that little diddums must cast about for some imaginary aunt sally to blame?-was it an animal or a relative? Is it that you simply must worship obey and propitiate your inner god self calming that is so much more important to you than anything else, that you simply have no choice but to worship and obey it? whatever or whoever died it was obviously very precious to poor little diddums.

[@brianmccarthy6544]

I thought deeply of your comments. They are fool hardy. Think again why you spew these weird thoughts.☮️

[@tomcarey5156]

I don’t know about decidedly they were both very impressive in this debate every time they spoke I was left thinking checkmate there is no way anyone could come up with an adequate rebuttal to the others argument. Every rebuttal was well presented and impressive. They are both world class debaters. Miss Hitchens he is a legend had a razor sharp wit that was unmatched.

[@brianmccarthy6544]

@@tomcarey5156 touchee fellow sparring partner !

[@NeutralMjolkHotel]

@@vhawk1951kl Just remember to breathe and it’ll all be okay

[@ayomiposishonibare7726]

His blood sharing analogy captured my heart. It's perfect.

[@francinepierce2489]

I feel a pang every time Hitch clears his throat...such a loss.

[@MrCastleJohnny]

why? events just are... they dont have any meaning . it's a meaningless cosmos and man is just part of it. atheism 101

[@AvinaLookAbaat]

@@MrCastleJohnnyYou clearly don't get it then

[@MrCastleJohnny]

​@@AvinaLookAbaat what is the meaning of the universe? does it have meaning in itself or not?

[@Elias.M92]

@@MrCastleJohnny we give meaning to things ourselves that’s how we work.

[@devarious5004]

@@MrCastleJohnny The absence of meaning in the grand scheme of things makes no less relevant the individual meaning of people and events to those experiencing them. Grief is not irrelevant on a personal level simply because death is irrelevant on a cosmic level.

[@ReignOfZero]

If I walked in to a town where everyone professed to having a close relationship with "Bill" except for 3 people I would I would ask to meet him. When they say "Oh, well we never really met him and can give you no proof of him, but if you pray to Bill and live your life in the name of Bill he'll save you...." I'd be out of that town with my 3 new friends. Being the bigger group doesn't magically make u not crazy

[@theonebegotten]

You don't want to live in countries that don't believe in Bill, believe me. Without an invisible Bill, someone always says I'm Bill and they're terrible.

[@thebiblestudio7]

But you can meet Him and know Him personally.

[@robinhoodstfrancis]

There a bunch of issues that need to be clarified. Getting at the roots of Science is a good way. Without Bill through Jesus, and his legacy through the funky monk system and their personal effort version of following Bill through Jesus, Newton and company wouldn´t have had the personal qualities and social surroundings adequate to give them the psychosocial and cultural resources to come up with Science. But you have to get into the details of Historical Sociology, not just go on simplistic stereotypes that take your Thanksgiving Day parades and football games for granted, along with the rest.

[@bms77]

relaxthenrefresh how? No one has ever been able to show

[@robinhoodstfrancis]

@@bms77 You´re living in the world He´s made possible now, actually. From before the Protestant Reformation to the Age of Enlightenment, the Scientific Revolution, and on through the American Revolution and to FD and Eleanor Roosevelt leading America with vision from the Depression, WWII, and the founding of the United Nations community of nations, it´s all about God and Jesus. Jefferson didn´t announce the "World of Ideas," he announced the God of Nature, and he didn´t call Plato and Aristotle the greatest moral teachers of all time. He called Jesus that. You lift your little pinky, and you´ll start finding where there are wings to change the box of rocks and fire that Science gives you into the ever-loving Creation with its ecosystems, biodiversity, and people that need love. I started with the Tao of Chinese spirituality and Unitarian Universalism´s recognition of people´s spiritual paths. From A to B, and all the line in between. That´s how.

[@alexandregb566]

The debate begins at 00:09:45

[@fnanfne]

Miss you Hitch!!

[@thereisnonegoodbutgodjohn363]

God is the epitome of Holiness because He is sinlessly perfect, A sinner (liar, sexually immoral, taking the Lord’s Name in vain, thief etc) cannot be in the presence of God or else he will be utterly consumed therefore repent of your sins and put your faith in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour to go to Heaven.

[@pancakes4140]

The embrace at the end was so nice to see. Completely apposed, yet there is civility and respect.

[@JoshuaWillis89]

Civility is overrated af

[@epicaunleashed8764]

@@JoshuaWillis89 redditor?

[@adammartin180]

That Dinesh D'Souza doesn't exist anymore lol

[@sapphirestrm]

@@adammartin180 nah; he was always the same, a grifter and phony. His arguments pale before Hitchens. Not sure why he gained any prominence.

[@themudpit621]

@@sapphirestrm Crap floats to the top. Hitchens earned his place. Dinesh paid for his when he wasn't kicking his wife in the head...